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Author Topic: How am I so immature?  (Read 3194 times)

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Offline Steinway

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How am I so immature?
« on: March 20, 2011, 12:35:17 AM »
I have to say I feel extremely foolish writing this.  I feel like Iím twelve so the truth is I already know that I need to grow up a bit, but here goesÖ

I know that they always say, you canít help how you feel.  A person has to just be themselves and everyone should just let that person be themselves ( unless something stupid is happening). 

My dilemma is rather petty.  Iím a healthy HIVer.  I sort of like my job.  I have a few good but flaky friends, and I like the city where Iíve just moved to.  Chicago.  (Iíve almost been here a year! )

I moved to my own place last July.  A couple of weeks after moving in I was bringing a bookcase up that I had in storage and one of my neighbors helped me bring it up.  Iím not really sure how it happened, but almost instantly we were inseparable.  (I should clarify to the reader that this isnít going to end up in a dating/sex story Ė this is actually about a friendship)  - anywayÖ.

We spent every moment together.  A little scary, but it was nice, it was fun.  We laughed a great deal, seemed to enjoy that same tv shows, movies, food, and conversation.  There were two little things that were odd about us as the ďOdd CoupleĒ   Iím gay, heís straight, Iím 42, heís 22.   Pretty much everything else we are in the same groove.  None of that really seemed to matter.  He had his own group of friends, I had mine (or at the least the few that I knew).  Iíve introduced him to my friends, heís introduced me to his,  weíve met each others families.  The perfect little couple.  Right?

Now comes the tricky part and the part Iím not sure what to do about.  The best examples I can give you are today and St. Pattyís Day.  Today I got a call from him asking if I wanted to go do laundry.  I told him I didnít really need to but sure,  I could wash at least one load.  After that I went to the gym and he went to a different gym ( heís a member at my gym but has a week pass at a nicer gym)  While at the gym he came there.  His bike had a flat and he couldnít get a new tire.  He finished his workout before me and said he was getting coffee but that I should come by and weíll figure out what weíll do for the night.  So I picked him up and we walked home.  It was a nice night, full moon along the lake, itís getting warmer,  and we played on the swings,  fun right?  Weíre like kids.  Always like kids.  (too much like kids?)

So we came back to the apartment complex and made dinner.  Started watching Rocky as heíd never seen it and after 30 minutes he turns it off because he didnít like it.  Boo.  So then we watch one of his teeny bopper shows from Mtv and during this heís getting texts to go out with different people.  After a while he just darts.  Doesnít ask me to go, just goes.  Tonight was the first time in months that heís acted like he even noticed that I was aware of him just leaving me high and dry.  He was asking if I was mad.  I responded ĎThis is what we do.í  I didnít know what to say.  Get mad?   Itís not really my style.  Iíve let him know that I think heís a little lame in doing this to me over and over again. 
 
This sort of thing happens at least once a week.  We hang out until he gets a better offer and then heís out the door.  No invite, nothing.  When Iíve made plans with other people and he doesnít have any plans he acts hurt and sometimes jealous.  I know thatís just his age, but at the same time I donít think he really gets that itís how I feel once or twice a week when he does it to me.  The difference being that I actually make plans with my friends. With him itís just a random invite to go play pool, drink, or watch a band. 

Hanging out with him until he gets a better offer leaves me to feel like a loser.  Iím not sure if itís my age or my sexuality that stops him from inviting me.  Or maybe he wants the space.  Regardless, this is how it is.  Iíve tried to get people from work to go out but that never seems to work.  Iíve tried to plan things with my other friends and have done so, but at the same time,  Iím sort of bored with them so I basically feel like Iím playing a game by hanging out with them.  I hang out with them to stay in touch with them but I also think I hang out with them to show him that I have other friends.  Childish.  Iím 42 going on 12.   
It is with passion, courage of conviction, and strong sense of self that we take our next steps into the world. Remembering that first impressions are not always correct. You must always have faith in people, and most importantly, you must always have faith in yourself.
~E. Woods

Offline woodshere

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Re: How am I so immature?
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2011, 12:45:11 AM »
I don't think it is your age at all, more like his maturity level and his lack of manners.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2011, 12:53:06 AM by woodshere »
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline tednlou2

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Re: How am I so immature?
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2011, 02:28:59 AM »
Are you sure he's not waiting for you to bust a move and you don't?  Do you think he's curious about gay sex at all?  It does seem unusual for someone in their early 20's to be close friends with someone twice their age--and, especially if he is totally straight.  It is good, though, that he is open to having different kinds of friends.  I guess you just have to see that this friendship is different from a "normal" friendship where you're around the same age.  He's young and will be more likely to drop plans for friends his age.

 

Offline BT65

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Re: How am I so immature?
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2011, 04:25:37 AM »
IMO, it's his age.  You're either going to have to resign yourself to the fact that that's the way it's going to be, or back off from the friendship.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline Ann

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Re: How am I so immature?
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2011, 06:11:20 AM »
Or you could just tell him how his actions make you feel. Kids that age tend to be so totally self-absorbed that they just don't see the bigger picture unless told.

If you value this friendship, speak up. Otherwise, move on.
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline mecch

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Re: How am I so immature?
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2011, 08:38:42 AM »
Or you could just tell him how his actions make you feel. Kids that age tend to be so totally self-absorbed that they just don't see the bigger picture unless told.

If you value this friendship, speak up. Otherwise, move on.

Thats great advice. 

Does he have a job?  School? 

I dont think its odd for people from different generations to have all manner of friendships.  What is unusual is that you two are "hanging out" all the time. 

When you described how you feel when he bolted - let me extend, or clarify - you're saying you felt what? - a bit insulted and hurt for the rude behaviour, and for lack of consideration for your feelings? Also, a bit sad and lonely - since you like your time with him more than your other friends? And now you would be alone for the evening, to boot?

This rang a bell for me personally, because it sounds like a couple, lovers, having a problem negotiating their time together and apart. 

If you are not in love with him, just value the friendship, I think it might be wise to dial down the frequency of meetings to something within more everyday bounds of friendship (a couple times a week tops) and with more structure then "hanging out".

You might call and make invitations this way: that you'd enjoy doing this, and then that, and then that - let's meet, cook, and watch a film - and get this out in the arrangement for the meeting.  Keep it cool but get the list of expected activities in there. 

And then if in the future he bolts during the 2nd or 3rd activity, you can CERTAINLY explain to him your disappointment that the time didn't go as you had expected. 

Also, since you'll be leaving him blocks of free time when you will NOT be hanging out with him. He'll have time to see his other friends, and also not take you for granted.   

These may seem like silly games but even grown ups have to play them and even in friendships.  You are kind of playing a similar game with your other friends. 



If you are in love with him, that's another story, right?

Anyway, assuming you are just friends, a good friend is hard to come by so I hope you play your cards well and this is a keeper.




ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline bocker3

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Re: How am I so immature?
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2011, 10:29:56 AM »
I find it interesting that some people head right to the "is this more than friendship" route.  I do not find a gay male / straight male friendship all that odd.  I've had a few stretching over decades and NEVER have fooled around, or wanted to (well, maybe with one....) with them.

As for your post -- Ann gave great advice -- you have to tell him how you feel.  Communication is important in all relationships, romantic, friends, family....  Then you have to remember that you can't change anyone else.  So... decide if the value you get from this friendship is worth the "price" this issue costs.

Good luck.

Mike
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Offline Theyer

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Re: How am I so immature?
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2011, 11:01:07 AM »
I too think its his age, in you he,s found a great unckle/elder brother/ Dad always there and importantly always not there when thats wanted.

To my Shame I had a friendship like this when I was 20, had no idea my actions impacted on him ,just thought he was always glad to see me, assumed that as he was so much older he was sorted.

Take care
t
"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ."  Tony Benn

Offline denb45

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Re: How am I so immature?
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2011, 12:31:00 PM »
I find it interesting that some people head right to the "is this more than friendship" route.  I do not find a gay male / straight male friendship all that odd.  I've had a few stretching over decades and NEVER have fooled around, or wanted to (well, maybe with one....) with them.

As for your post -- Ann gave great advice -- you have to tell him how you feel.  Communication is important in all relationships, romantic, friends, family....  Then you have to remember that you can't change anyone else.  So... decide if the value you get from this friendship is worth the "price" this issue costs.

Good luck.

Mike

Great point Mike, I have way more str8 male friends than I do gay men  ;) I mean, most gay men  aren't really that friendly with me, it's funny , that I seem get more support from my str8 friends that I ever get from my gay peers, why that is, is a mystery to me  ???
« Last Edit: March 20, 2011, 12:40:28 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Ann

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Re: How am I so immature?
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2011, 03:08:28 PM »
I have lots of friends in their early twenties, both gay and straight. Plenty of times I've had to point out to them that their behaviour was hurtful or annoying in some way. And they're generally surprised at first, until they think about it. They just don't realise. They're still learning how to interact in the adult world. The tricky part is figuring out how to deliver the information in a way that doesn't come across as condescending or lecturing. What works for one might not work for another.

It can be rewarding in some ways to have the friendship of a younger person. Just last night a young lad of 20 confided in me that he might be gay, or at least bi. An older gay male friend of mine and I have been thinking this for ages now, but of course I didn't tell him that. I felt honoured that he thinks that much of me he chose me as the first person to tentatively come out to. The relief in his face at my calm, accepting reaction was priceless. I hope it gives him the courage to further explore this aspect of his life and be comfortable with it.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline hope_for_a_cure

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Re: How am I so immature?
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2011, 04:16:36 PM »
It sounds like you enjoy his company for the most part.  Your comment about 'hanging out with him until he gets a better offer leaves me to feel like a loser' is the part that says the most.  If his affect on you is like that, then it may be best to have a little chat with him to that affect.  I know you said that 'heís a little lame in doing this' but it is a pattern.  I am NOT saying to pour your heart out to him but if you guys have plans to do something, let it be known that your intent is to actually carry those plans out.  If its just hanging out, then dont look at it as a better offer, he may want to hang out with other friends as well.

All in all it sounds like you have feelings for this young lad.

Enjoy your new city!  Chicago is a fun place.  Oak Street Beach will be full of men of ALL ages soon and as I recall, they have some hotties there. 

 

Offline Steinway

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Re: How am I so immature?
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2011, 10:46:00 PM »
Thank you all for your kind words.  It's sort of been a long day.  I took the morning to run some errands and just be alone and sort myself out.  I think the biggest thing for me is that I just need to be glad that in the short time that I've been here that I've have at least one good friend. I think I just need to give this city more time.  I'm not a gay bar person, more of a pool table kind of guy, so all of my friends end up being straight which is fine. 

   In the case with my neighbor, we are more like roommates.  When I think of people that are roommates one never expects that other is to always be invited to the others events.  With my friend I pretty much have invited him to everything that I do with my other friends so it's a little bit of a blow when he isn't always asking me to go.  I think I'm a bit paranoid too that he is ashamed of me or embarrassed of me.  Because I'm gay, or because I'm twice his age.  Neither may be the case.  We have been out in public together and he has asked me several times, 'Do you think that people think we're a couple?'   We've had a long talk about that particular issue and he's never asked again.  What worries me is that now he is just thinking it but not asking.  Who is to say?

   I did want to have a talk with him today about it all but our schedules didn't line up.  He may be by later so maybe we'll talk then.  I know we'll talk at some point.  It may not been anytime soon but as soon as we do I'll keep you all posted. 

Thank you again for your kindness.  I meet with my case worker tomorrow which always makes me nervous.  It's time for more blood too work which I hate even more.   :-[   

Enjoy the Spring!!!! 

It is with passion, courage of conviction, and strong sense of self that we take our next steps into the world. Remembering that first impressions are not always correct. You must always have faith in people, and most importantly, you must always have faith in yourself.
~E. Woods

Offline tednlou2

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Re: How am I so immature?
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2011, 01:39:56 AM »
I find it interesting that some people head right to the "is this more than friendship" route.  I do not find a gay male / straight male friendship all that odd.  I've had a few stretching over decades and NEVER have fooled around, or wanted to (well, maybe with one....) with them.

As for your post -- Ann gave great advice -- you have to tell him how you feel.  Communication is important in all relationships, romantic, friends, family....  Then you have to remember that you can't change anyone else.  So... decide if the value you get from this friendship is worth the "price" this issue costs.

Good luck.

Mike

Well, I agree a straight man being friends with a gay man is not that unusual--when they are around the same age.  A gay man in his 40's being so close to a straight guy in his early 20's is probably unusual.  We in the gay community usually see this with some kind of sex going on or desire for it to happen.  But, not necessarily.  It would be unusual for a straight guy in his 40's to be so close to a straight guy in his 20's.  It obviously happens, but just unusual.  Most just wouldn't find they have that much in common to be so close where you hang out all the time.  It is one thing to meet with co-workers of different ages for a drink.  But, hang out at each others apartments and schedule laundry together is unusual--when you really didn't need to do laundry, but gathered up some to do anyway.  Not saying anything wrong with it--just unusual.           

Offline Steinway

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Re: How am I so immature?
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2011, 10:56:52 PM »
I'm not sure how this has turned into an age topic but since we are walking down that road I'll add a few things.  In the line of work that I have done for the past 20 years I have been working with 18-24 year olds quite a bit.  It's just how it goes.  So I'm very used to relating to people much younger than me.  That being said, I've also been trained to just relate to people of any age.  I currently have an invite from a man I worked with two years ago to come visit with him and his wife for the weekend.  He is over 80.  One of my best friends on the planet is 61, and is a straight female.  I don't think kindred spirits have an age box to check.

As far as my friend and I doing laundry.  He doesn't have a car and I do.  I had a basket full of dirty gym clothes and I barely got everything into one machine.  It wasn't a stretch to do laundry.  Plus, Thursdays we always run errands like that, get food, the normal stuff. 
 

I honestly don't think compatibility and chemistry of any kind has an age bracket.  That's like saying it's weird for a man to be friends with a woman.  Or mixing races, or finding common ground with someone that wrote a biography 200 years ago.  Like minds, like hearts, and like spirits are just that. 

I think as far as my minor Friday / Saturday night problem with my friend is nothing more than our age boxes are too far from each other.  If I were younger, perhaps straighter,  then I would always be invited.  I'm also very clean cut and the friends he drinks with all wear black and are covered in tattoos. I personally wouldn't not invite someone just because they wouldn't fit a certain mold, but I'm still just guessing until we chat. 

I sort of feel that the best advice given so far is to either talk to him which I do plan on doing, and to just accept that this is how it's going to be.  He's still a kid really.  He wants to be social and have fun.He doesn't want to miss anything.  He should go out and enjoy his youth.  I did.   I think I'm a safe haven for him and offer a bit of home away from home feeling.  Sometimes I am like his parent, sometimes like his big brother, sometimes his friend.  He has quite a few friends.  I'm just one of them and there's nothing wrong with that.  Call me crazy but I don't see anything wrong with it. 

It is with passion, courage of conviction, and strong sense of self that we take our next steps into the world. Remembering that first impressions are not always correct. You must always have faith in people, and most importantly, you must always have faith in yourself.
~E. Woods

Offline hope_for_a_cure

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Re: How am I so immature?
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2011, 11:05:05 PM »
I think I'm a safe haven for him and offer a bit of home away from home feeling. 

You just hit the nail on the head!  That sums it up quite succinctly I would say.  Continue to enjoy his company but also enjoy other things that the big city of Chicago has to offer. 

Offline Steinway

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Re: How am I so immature?
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2011, 09:51:59 AM »
I have run into this quote a few times this week.  I think maybe this is what the universe is trying to teach me.


"DON'T MAKE SOMEONE A PRIORITY WHO WOULD ONLY MAKE YOU AN OPTION"


It is with passion, courage of conviction, and strong sense of self that we take our next steps into the world. Remembering that first impressions are not always correct. You must always have faith in people, and most importantly, you must always have faith in yourself.
~E. Woods

Offline Bucko

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Re: How am I so immature?
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2011, 08:27:34 PM »
Another way of thinking about it:

Do not be more invested in someone's success that s/he is in your own.


That was a lesson I learned the hard way, for sure, but only once  ::)
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Offline roy100

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Re: How am I so immature?
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2011, 12:10:39 AM »
Yes , Bucko  is right on target.

I am used to date younger people and  you do tend to think in the others feelings more than yourself, and like some many people lectured me here ,is a road to a broken heart. Move on before you fall in love.

I left on vacation for 3 weeks, and when I came back my young boyfriend had found somebody new, and told me , it was over that I needed to keep my presents and souvenirs because , he had somebody new.

To him nothing to me still hurting, even now I am still dating somebody new young , but in bed  I feel nothing just emptiness, it will go away, time cures everything.

Just watch out.
Roy



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Offline Since2005

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Re: How am I so immature?
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2011, 02:45:01 AM »
i was going through some old threads. I like reading others stories as how they felt, know more about them. So, I came to know yours. Any updates? Did you finally have a talk with him?

Offline mecch

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Re: How am I so immature?
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2011, 04:11:21 AM »
Since
I love your enthusiasm and positive attitude.
Its great you are exploring the forum because there are a lot of interesting situations to learn from.
That said, careful about "zombie thread" revivification.
Note some people find it annoying.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2011, 12:12:57 PM by mecch »
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Since2005

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Re: How am I so immature?
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2011, 11:23:39 AM »
That said, careful about "zombie thread" revivification.

That made me laugh! Just the word 'zombie' did! But, I could understand why that would be annoying to some. I will watch not to do too much of that, Thank you.

 


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