Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
Newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr Instagram
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 30, 2014, 03:25:16 PM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 644060
  • Total Topics: 49021
  • Online Today: 193
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: How Has Your Diagnosis Changed Your Outlook On Life and Living?  (Read 12196 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline LM

  • Member
  • Posts: 409
Re: How Has Your Diagnosis Changed Your Outlook On Life and Living?
« Reply #50 on: September 11, 2011, 12:27:34 AM »
Sometimes it is our perspective that makes us think that others are jaded, distant, or uncaring --- even "dirty" --- when in fact, it may be our own issues or vision or perspective clouding our view..... many who may appear jaded, distant, or uncaring are actually empathetic, close to others, and understanding..... they have learned to live with this disease, with dignity, without shame, and with a heart and knowledge that knows that others can and should (for their own benefit and growth - as well as for the benefit of others who will follow in their path) do the same.

Yes, maybe some cold, uncaring people I've met are actually the most loving creatures on Earth and my vision was blurred. Or maybe, and this may come as a surprise, but maybe, HIV+ people are just like normal human beings, who handle grief in different ways. Some take it out on others. Others, however, overcome it and use it as their strength to be there for others. All I realized was that I would like to be in the second group, because any pain we may suffer is our own, for no one to understand, but so is everyone else's. And knowing pain should bring us closer, not farther away from others, regardless of their HIV status, their pain or their suffering. At least that's what I believe in.

Offline phildinftlaudy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,965
  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: How Has Your Diagnosis Changed Your Outlook On Life and Living?
« Reply #51 on: September 11, 2011, 01:26:10 AM »
Yes, maybe some cold, uncaring people I've met are actually the most loving creatures on Earth and my vision was blurred. Or maybe, and this may come as a surprise, but maybe, HIV+ people are just like normal human beings, who handle grief in different ways. Some take it out on others. Others, however, overcome it and use it as their strength to be there for others. All I realized was that I would like to be in the second group, because any pain we may suffer is our own, for no one to understand, but so is everyone else's. And knowing pain should bring us closer, not farther away from others, regardless of their HIV status, their pain or their suffering. At least that's what I believe in.
Well, said - and I hope you remain in the second group (although, you said you "would like" to be in the second group" - so, I don't know if you are still working towards getting there)- and if you don't - that is okay too ----- as you said, we each have our way of dealing with HIV - or anything in life for that matter.  No matter what group a person is in, I try to do my best to be understanding, caring, and empathetic (not perfect at it but any way, shape, or means). 

Best book title I ever saw was "I'm not okay, You're not okay - but that's okay."
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline Rev. Moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,782
  • Smart ass faggot ©
Re: How Has Your Diagnosis Changed Your Outlook On Life and Living?
« Reply #52 on: September 11, 2011, 02:02:47 AM »
Well, said - and I hope you remain in the second group (although, you said you "would like" to be in the second group" - so, I don't know if you are still working towards getting there)- and if you don't - that is okay too

Colour me unsold.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline anniebc

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,947
  • AM member since 2003
Re: How Has Your Diagnosis Changed Your Outlook On Life and Living?
« Reply #53 on: September 11, 2011, 07:42:01 AM »
Colour me unsold.

Oh ye of little faith.. ;)

Aroha
Jan :-*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,948
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: How Has Your Diagnosis Changed Your Outlook On Life and Living?
« Reply #54 on: September 11, 2011, 12:56:31 PM »
Someone who has a character bound to become bitter, will find any reason to arrive there.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline spacebarsux

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,350
  • Survival of the Fittest
Re: How Has Your Diagnosis Changed Your Outlook On Life and Living?
« Reply #55 on: September 11, 2011, 01:24:11 PM »
Someone who has a character bound to become bitter, will find any reason to arrive there.

Not that being bitter or depressed (especially when it is directly caused by difficult circumstances) does anyone any good, but I don't think character judgments on the emotionally vulnerable serve any purpose either-other than perhaps giving a reason to those who are better predisposed in the face of adversity to feel better about themselves.  

And that to me is not just insensitive but also a little patronising, which is also a bit sad.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2011, 01:34:27 PM by spacebarsux »
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline Joe K

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3,812
  • 31 Years Poz
Re: How Has Your Diagnosis Changed Your Outlook On Life and Living?
« Reply #56 on: September 11, 2011, 02:09:29 PM »
Not that being bitter or depressed (especially when it is directly caused by difficult circumstances) does anyone any good, but I don't think character judgments on the emotionally vulnerable serve any purpose either-other than perhaps giving a reason to those who are better predisposed in the face of adversity to feel better about themselves.  

And that to me is not just insensitive but also a little patronising, which is also a bit sad.

I'm not sure that is what Mecch meant by his comment.  There will always be some people who choose to be bitter or resentful and identifying them as such is not as much a judgement but more of accurately defining how they choose to act.  When I was in Florida we had a number of HIV support groups and there seemed to be two distinct types of groups.  One would be like this forum, where most members were fairly reasonable about their infection and acted accordingly.  The other group would contain folks who believed their life was hell on earth and they became so bitter and angry that they drained the life from anyone who came near.  I'm not sure why, but it seems that some poz folks need their anger to somehow protect themselves, however I found them impossible to be around, because to believe them, everything in their life was awful and they are often inconsolable and after awhile you don't even want to try anymore.

Life is full of choices and if you choose to be angry and bitter than that is what you probably will become. Nobody can make you feel something that you refuse to feel or believe.


Offline spacebarsux

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,350
  • Survival of the Fittest
Re: How Has Your Diagnosis Changed Your Outlook On Life and Living?
« Reply #57 on: September 11, 2011, 02:18:54 PM »
Joe, I agree with you regarding the sort of negative personality that you describe...I just think that even with such people compassion, empathy, listening or whatever is correct approach and not casting judgment.

As an analogy (not a perfect one at all...but anyway)- I think it is grossly unfair to label people who commit suicide as 'cowards'. Only they know the pain they feel that leads them to take their own life.....and even though it might've been bitterness/depression that led to such an act, I just feel it is insensitive for other people to label them as cowards or bitter or whatever.....and it certainly doesn't help anyone in anyway, the way I see it.

Edited to add:- I also don't really think anyone makes a conscious choice to be bitter/depressed. I don't think anyone would make the choice to lead a life wallowing in misery...they just find it impossibly hard to be happy and strong given whatever circumstances and events...if at all they need support and sympathy....and least of all judgment that would make them feel worse.

« Last Edit: September 11, 2011, 02:50:06 PM by spacebarsux »
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline Joe K

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3,812
  • 31 Years Poz
Re: How Has Your Diagnosis Changed Your Outlook On Life and Living?
« Reply #58 on: September 11, 2011, 02:48:43 PM »
I think we may be comparing apples to oranges. My point about people being bitter, is that it is a choice that they make in how to conduct their life. I don't judge such people, rather I empathize with how awful they must think their lives are and how difficult it is to change that type of mindset. However, I also know how damaging such a mindset can be and describing how someone acts is not the same as judging why they act as they do.

Suicide, to me, is entirely different because I have been suicidal. Thoughts of suicide generally involve some type of mental illness, which can become uncontrollable and end in an actual suicide. I find that some people simply cannot understand how devastating mental illness can become and they attempt to find some logic as to why someone would take their own life. If you have never experienced severe mental illness, you cannot understand the dynamics involved, nor do you realize that "logic" really has no place in describing why someone commits suicide. And I believe that this lack of understanding is why some people label suicides as "cowardly", simply because they cannot fathom the feelings that lead one to become suicidal.

Offline LM

  • Member
  • Posts: 409
Re: How Has Your Diagnosis Changed Your Outlook On Life and Living?
« Reply #59 on: September 11, 2011, 03:25:11 PM »
I think we may be comparing apples to oranges. My point about people being bitter, is that it is a choice that they make in how to conduct their life. I don't judge such people, rather I empathize with how awful they must think their lives are and how difficult it is to change that type of mindset. However, I also know how damaging such a mindset can be and describing how someone acts is not the same as judging why they act as they do.

Perfect. Exactly that.

I believe some might have been ticked off by this because of the admission of sometimes not having the patience with other people's problems because they don't have HIV or something. I think this is normal: when we're not feeling well, it's hard to give a damn about others. Last week, when I was weak and with fever, all I wanted was to kick people out of my way on the street when they slowed me down. But these moments don't make anyone good or bad, they are just moments. The problem is taking that as an attitude in relation to life, adopting this kind of mindset. And then it doesn't do anyone any good. That's why I believe reflecting upon it is always good, because it's not hard to fall into the trap of having this mindset.

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 11,948
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: How Has Your Diagnosis Changed Your Outlook On Life and Living?
« Reply #60 on: September 11, 2011, 04:44:28 PM »
I'm not sure that is what Mecch meant by his comment.  There will always be some people who choose to be bitter or resentful and identifying them as such is not as much a judgement but more of accurately defining how they choose to act.  When I was in Florida we had a number of HIV support groups and there seemed to be two distinct types of groups.  One would be like this forum, where most members were fairly reasonable about their infection and acted accordingly.  The other group would contain folks who believed their life was hell on earth and they became so bitter and angry that they drained the life from anyone who came near.  I'm not sure why, but it seems that some poz folks need their anger to somehow protect themselves, however I found them impossible to be around, because to believe them, everything in their life was awful and they are often inconsolable and after awhile you don't even want to try anymore.

Life is full of choices and if you choose to be angry and bitter than that is what you probably will become. Nobody can make you feel something that you refuse to feel or believe.

Yes, Kill, thank you. I surely did not mean to condescend about bitterness.  And CERTAINLY never about depression.  And those are two different states of mind, by the way.

I was saying, I don't think an HIV+ person stereotyping some other HIV+ people as bitter is helpful.

I have a colleague who's gross husband brutally dumped her in a classic trade in for a younger new wife.  A lot changed in her life because of that. So many adjustments to make. First, a nervous breakdown. Then, making all the adjustments.  Problem is, she also became very bitter about a lot of things.  Its been difficult for so many of us to deal with the constant bitterness, now that the pain and depression have resolved and the event fades into the past, years ago. But the "bitter" character continues and bleeds into everything.  

I don't know much about how to over come bitterness but its an interesting subject.  I am not sure bitterness is always a choice, or only a choice. It might be some kind of coping mechanism gone awry. Or a destructive coping mechanism. 


« Last Edit: September 11, 2011, 04:54:48 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline spacebarsux

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,350
  • Survival of the Fittest
Re: How Has Your Diagnosis Changed Your Outlook On Life and Living?
« Reply #61 on: September 12, 2011, 04:04:57 AM »
Yea...I'm not a psychologist or anything, but I really don't think bitterness is a choice-least of all a conscious choice. It probably has to do with inability to cope, to lift the cloud of pessimism and negativity (?).

In my first few months after my diagnosis when I was in excruciating pain and seethingly bitter, I certainly did not choose to be that way. I was just like that and nothing helped other than the passage of time. And yes, I did find remarks from people close to me such as 'snap out of this state', 'you are choosing to be depressed, people go through far worse things' etc etc as insensitive and a little condescending.

If some people stay like that for a much longer time....telling them they are choosing to be that way just makes no sense to me for it isn't accurate in the first place and also unhelpful.

Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.