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Author Topic: Overwhelming Ignorance  (Read 3564 times)

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Offline dpb

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Overwhelming Ignorance
« on: August 21, 2011, 09:26:08 PM »
I tend to avoid watching most HIV/AIDS related videos on YouTube as I usually end up reading the user comments, but I decided to for another thread.  It is baffling to me just how many ignorant, uneducated, intolerant and callous people there are out there perpetuating myths, stereotypes, and false information.

Examples:

• "HIV does not exist, they dont know what causes aids, quit giving money to the rich and greedy"
• "What kind of fucked up piece of shit has kids when they have HIV."
• "For everyone else with legitimate aids, nutritional and lifestyle changes will go a long way to healing them if it doesnt cure it outright."
• "'AIDS' is not a disease it's a phony medical construct. people must come to their own conclusions about taking taking the non-specific death pills. Most people are not aware of the facts."
• "For everyone who's supposedly HIV positive, stop taking any meds that you are taking and see whether your AIDS 'symptoms' get better or worse."
• "if you think she didn't get HIV on purpose, then why the fuck is she brave? If she had any sense she'd just die."
• "should have put her down at birth" (referring to a video about a young teenage girl born with HIV)
• "i dont think anyboyd's body is immune to HIV,, if that the case, their would be scientist jumping up all over the world,"
• "i said a person with HIV should not have CHILDREN,, if they want a child they should adopt"
• "thats impossible... God would not allow an innocent child to be to simply be "born" with HIV the only way she could of got it is if she was a sexual deviant"
• "wow thats so sad. why would her mom go ahead and have a kid if she has hiv???"
• "so while you would be focused on your child not being next this gurl with hiv. your child might be playin with another sumbody who has the virus. you might of went to wendys today.. sum body with the virus might have tooken your order. i mean so.."
• "You can't be "Born" with HIV or AIDS you have to have angered god in some way through homosexual misconduct or any other form of sexual misconduct... And don't you fucking dare to threaten to infect my Child with HIV or AID!!!"
• "This is a man made disease designed to reduce world populations, starting with blacks and homosexuals.  Google Bob Beck's protocol and natural cures for aids. Anyone with hiv needs to start dringing a glass a day of organic coconut water, it kills the virus as well as the herpes virus. Dont expect the pharma companies to tell you the truth. AIDS meds cost $30,000/year/person and you still die. Its a money maker."
• "HIV positive since birth? Wow, people lose their virginity earlier every year.."
• "I wouldn't let my child near an HIV+"
• "she's lucky to have lived so long.. children who've had hiv from birth rarely reach their second year :/"
• "I am better than someone with HIV, thats like saying rich people aren't better than poor people... people with HIV wish they could take wateva happen to them back.. People with HIV are human but there infected humans that need to be atleast Quarantine"

These types of posts go on, and on, and on.  How do you even respond or react to this kind of mind-numbing stupidity and still maintain your sanity?  I know I should ignore it.  I feel like I do a good job of that most of the time, but it's both sickening and infuriating to me the society and world we live in.  Your thoughts?
Date        CD4    %    VL
1/15/11    Diagnosed
3/1/11    525    18    168,518
5/12/11    558    16    331,791
5/16/11    Started Atripla
5/31/11    NA    NA    1,200
6/15/11    721    21    330
7/15/11    649    23    231
8/15/11    569    25    UD
11/17/11  752    26    UD
3/1/12    634    27    UD
7/2/12    594    26    UD
2/13       676    30    UD
9/13       662    31    UD

Online mecch

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Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2011, 10:40:37 PM »
My thoughts are that one should do one's bit fighting ignorance that one finds in flesh and blood people who matter in one's life.

You can't do much about this ignorance and hatred online so just ignore it.  It will never go away.  I think you spent too much time copying all that stupidity for this thread.  You gave too much energy to these idiots. 

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2011, 12:10:10 AM »
YouTube comments are like scrawl on a bathroom stall-- sometimes amusing but the atmosphere usually stinks.

Don't let it get to you.

Offline Joe K

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Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2011, 12:16:41 AM »
There will always be people who will spew anger, hate and intolerance towards others.  There are however, even more people who spread joy, love and tolerance for others.  Try to filter out the hate and put your energy to living a full life.  Never give your power away to anyone.  Very easy to say, not always easy to do. 

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2011, 04:39:38 AM »
Its not important what others think of you as long as you're comfortable in your skin and those who matter to you care.

« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 05:02:31 AM by spacebarsux »
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline buginme2

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Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2011, 07:08:57 AM »
As Kenny Rogers would say. "you got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, know when to run"

I would run away from this fight.  There is no way in hell anyone is going to change that there is a huge nunber o people in this world who are as you say "Overwhelmingly ignorant."

Don't be fancy, just get dancey

Offline Ann

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Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2011, 08:32:19 AM »
The more we hide, the more we have to hide. People who know me here know that I've been saying this for years and the subject matter of this thread is a case in point.

The ignorance exists and is perpetuated by US. Because WE do not stand up and say "YOU'RE WRONG, YOU'RE IGNORANT, AND BY THE WAY, HERE ARE THE FACTS."

I'd say close to 80% or more of our forum members are closeted about their hiv status. "Living under a bridge", as one member recently put it. People who are in the closet are implicitly saying they're ashamed. They're quarantining themselves. (Like one You Tube poster above thinks we should be.)

How can we ever expect people to change their minds and see us as members of the human race when we HIDE? When we hide, we suggest to the world that we have reason to hide, reason to quarantine ourselves. We perpetuate our own stigma when we hide.

The more we hide, the more we HAVE to hide. Simples.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2011, 10:04:50 AM »
No disrespect to the OP, nor the goodly members who've taken the time to reply but these are YouTube comments.

Check out any video on the YouTube and you'll find that the comments include the following:

*LOL!

*WTF?

*FTW!

*Lol wat a fag :)

*Nigger!

*John 3:16!

*I hate that anumals are treated bad, humans are the werst anumals of all

etc.

Which might indicate that this:

The more we hide, the more we have to hide. People who know me here know that I've been saying this for years and the subject matter of this thread is a case in point.

The ignorance exists and is perpetuated by US. Because WE do not stand up and say "YOU'RE WRONG, YOU'RE IGNORANT, AND BY THE WAY, HERE ARE THE FACTS."

I'd say close to 80% or more of our forum members are closeted about their hiv status. "Living under a bridge", as one member recently put it. People who are in the closet are implicitly saying they're ashamed. They're quarantining themselves. (Like one You Tube poster above thinks we should be.)

How can we ever expect people to change their minds and see us as members of the human race when we HIDE? When we hide, we suggest to the world that we have reason to hide, reason to quarantine ourselves. We perpetuate our own stigma when we hide.

The more we hide, the more we HAVE to hide. Simples.

is well intentioned, yet touchingly naive. :)

MtD

Offline Ann

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Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2011, 10:11:20 AM »

is well intentioned, yet touchingly naive. :)


Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2011, 10:15:57 AM »


Indeed.

Between the "LOL"s and the "Niggers" I forgot about the "blahs".

Thank you for being the soft, creamy centre of this thread. :)

MtD

Offline Ann

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Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2011, 10:19:46 AM »
Matilda, watch it with the N word. A thread just got shit-canned earlier for the gratuitous use of that word.

And thank you for being the fish bone in this thread. :)
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2011, 10:31:27 AM »
Matilda, watch it with the N word. A thread just got shit-canned earlier for the gratuitous use of that word.

And thank you for being the fish bone in this thread. :)

Well I don't think I've been gratuitous in my use of the pejorative "nigger" thus far. In a discussion of YouTube my application of "nigger" within context seems germane to the subject at hand.

Of course I am happy to defer to you in this. :)

MtD

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2011, 11:48:14 AM »
Ok, let me spell it out. Stop using the N word. Just because some fuckwits on You Tube use it doesn't mean anyone wants to see it used here. Don't make me whack you with the Truncheon.

Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2011, 11:54:53 AM »
Ok, let me spell it out. Stop using the N word. Just because some fuckwits on You Tube use it doesn't mean anyone wants to see it used here. Don't make me whack you with the Truncheon.



You only had to ask. Bowdlerising mode is on.

The deadshit Yahoo! emoticons add nothing to the conversation. Frankly, I expected better from you.

How is Eldon doing these days?

MtD

Offline Theyer

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Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2011, 03:40:20 PM »
Don,t give any power to you tube fascists, do you really think there life's are anything but pitiful spewing anonymous hate in their hutches.
t
"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ."  Tony Benn

Offline LM

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  • Posts: 409
Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2011, 04:45:01 PM »
The more we hide, the more we have to hide. People who know me here know that I've been saying this for years and the subject matter of this thread is a case in point.

The ignorance exists and is perpetuated by US. Because WE do not stand up and say "YOU'RE WRONG, YOU'RE IGNORANT, AND BY THE WAY, HERE ARE THE FACTS."

I'd say close to 80% or more of our forum members are closeted about their hiv status. "Living under a bridge", as one member recently put it. People who are in the closet are implicitly saying they're ashamed. They're quarantining themselves. (Like one You Tube poster above thinks we should be.)

How can we ever expect people to change their minds and see us as members of the human race when we HIDE? When we hide, we suggest to the world that we have reason to hide, reason to quarantine ourselves. We perpetuate our own stigma when we hide.

The more we hide, the more we HAVE to hide. Simples.

While I see your point, I have to agree it's a bit naive. Who could really make a difference would be the government, the media and famous people. They are the ones that really influence people but they do little about it. The government doesn't want people to lose their fear of HIV; the media just wants to perpetuate whatever people think about it; and famous people with HIV are too afraid of losing what they have if they disclose it.

You know, last week the biggest TV network here had a program about HIV/AIDS. It was terrible, it showed people on their deathbed, a person taking 19 meds daily, among other things. It looked like it was recorded 15, 20 years ago. I talked to some HIV+ people here about it, and they were devastated. Some of these people told their families to watch it and it showed a completely different reality from what they had told their family and friends, who were now sad and hopeless.

While we can all do our part, it's hard when the main information channels say and show something different.

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2011, 05:17:22 PM »
Hey LM, actually nothing what Ann said is naive at all.

By disclosing your status you put a face to the disease. You might not change the world but you certainly change your world, and profoundly so. While it may be challenging in the beginning, most rational people tend to realise that you are the same person you always were and nothing really has changed except for the illness you need to manage.

In that you also change the world of every other person who is carrying this virus (open about it or not), ever so slightly, though deeply.

While I firmly believe that the decision to disclose is a personal one, it is absurd to not acknowledge that the people who are open about their status are at the frontlines in the battle against stigma, the effects of which cause people to crumble under the oppressive weight of shame and self-loathing.

Shame stems from ignorance. Ignorance has its roots in fear of the ‘unknown’. Fear can only be conquered with knowledge. Knowledge and information is power.  

The idiots on youtube are a perfect example of that ignorant type.

I somehow find it hard to digest that certain governments/media are advancing some hidden agendas in perpetuating myths on HIV. From a Public Health Policy, it is a tricky balancing act in showing the advances in HIV but at the same time not taking away from the reality that untreated HIV is deadly and it is still an incurable difficult disease even today no matter how you dress it up-. It is of overriding importance, from a public health perspective, to stem the tide of new infections and that will always take precedence over hurting the sentiments of people living with HIV.

That said, if certain Governments or Media are perpetuating outright ignorance and showing a totally lop-sided picture (as you seemed to indicate) then may be they need a crash course on the advancements in HIV science in the last 15 years to showcase what is more reflective of the current state of affairs. That again can only happen when ‘one of us’ speaks and educates the public health officials in the said country.

No one is going to stand up for us except ‘one of us’. And you are one of us, openly HIV+ or not.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 05:30:56 PM by spacebarsux »
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline LM

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Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2011, 05:32:18 PM »
Sorry spacebarsux, nice words, but to me, just very naive. That's just my opinion and I hope you respect it.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2011, 06:17:36 PM »
See, I volunteer at an animal rescue, and have taken in a few animals to foster over the years. Most of them are old, sick, with bad breath. They die, often in pain when the vet is closed, once screaming in my arms.

And it tears my guts out every time. My own pets have a lifespan of five to MAYBE seven years. And with a single exception, they have all died at home, in my arms, on several occasions licking me as they did.

And it tears me up every time.

So why do I do it?

Same reason I respond in the "AM I INFECTED" forum, I think.  Does it, do I, make a profound difference? I daresay not. When I'm gone, I am sure the sandcastle of Jonathan will not endure a single tidal pull.

But I do it because even the smallest difference moves us along, just a touch.  Sure, I likely will not live to see my efforts really add up. But I believe that they do. I exist, actually, as proof that they do, since it is thanks to activists and scientists that I enjoy the health I do.

So I disagree that it is necessarily naive to try and make a difference. Sure, some people lack the world-wisdom and the experience to fully comprehend the scope of what they are trying to do, and might be really shocked at the personal cost.

But to do it over and over, despite that cost, can't really be called naive. And considering that all of us with HIV stand on the shoulders of people who did just that, I wonder if it doesn't disrespect them somewhat to make that assertion.

Picking your battles is another matter. Arguing with fucktards on YouTube is probably not the wisest use of one's time. However, using that energy, passion, and anger towards something the REALLY can make a difference, like volunteering to help at a local ASO or getting involved in politics or delivering meals to sick people.

I am reminded of a story, no it's not the footprints one.

A guy walks on the beach. It's littered with starfish, beached by the tide and slowly dying. A boy stands in the shallow water. The guy sees the boy bend over and pick up a starfish, fling it into the ocean. He does it a few more times. As the guy walks by, he calls out to the boy.

"You know you can't possibly make a difference to all these things"

the boy chucks another starfish into the ocean.

"Made a difference to that one."

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2011, 06:18:51 PM »
Ann is many many things. I would hesitate to number naive among them.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline LM

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Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2011, 06:40:28 PM »
So I disagree that it is necessarily naive to try and make a difference. Sure, some people lack the world-wisdom and the experience to fully comprehend the scope of what they are trying to do, and might be really shocked at the personal cost.

But to do it over and over, despite that cost, can't really be called naive. And considering that all of us with HIV stand on the shoulders of people who did just that, I wonder if it doesn't disrespect them somewhat to make that assertion.

I think you summed up the main point with your post. I believe no one thinks it's naive to try to make a difference, but that it's naive to think that everyone would do the same or that alone would solve it all. Just like in the case of your work with animals, which is great, btw.

That said, I don't think Ann is naive, but the idea that everyone with HIV would come out of the closet, and that even if that happened, that it would solve all problems, like the ignorant posts on you tube and things of the sort. The problem is way deeper.

Offline Joe K

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Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2011, 07:13:08 PM »
That said, I don't think Ann is naive, but the idea that everyone with HIV would come out of the closet, and that even if that happened, that it would solve all problems, like the ignorant posts on you tube and things of the sort. The problem is way deeper.

Of course the problem with HIV is very deep, but attitudes like yours solve nothing. If you wish to remain in the HIV closet, that is your choice, but I find it hard to swallow your criticism of others who are courageous enough to put a face to HIV. As others have said, when you hide your status, you are suggesting to the world that there is something wrong with being poz and you are refusing to face your own stigma regarding the disease. When you allow ignorance and fear of HIV to grow, by remaining silent, you remain part of the problem.

Those who advocate for HIV awareness, whether it be through these forums, volunteering or sharing their experience with HIV are the only ones who can stem the tide of intolerance. Through 30 years of HIV history we can see the results of those who had the courage to stand and be recognized as people with AIDS.  In America, those early folks built a legacy of HIV services and treatments that have brought us one-pill dosing and the possibility of living a normal life span. And they did in a time when being poz, was infinitely more dangerous than it is today.

Nobody is suggesting we can every rid the world of ignorant people. There will always be people who do not want to learn or are too fearful, or simply wish to hate others who are different from them. There are however, far more people who are open to learning and understanding the facts about HIV and the best possible place for them to learn that, is from us.

Nobody has the right to criticize others, for doing something that they personally, are too afraid to do.

Offline LM

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Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2011, 07:33:03 PM »
But I'm not criticizing anyone. I hope I made that clear.

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2011, 02:27:19 AM »
"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history."
 
                   -Gandhi    


"Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth."

                  -Gandhi

 :)
« Last Edit: August 23, 2011, 02:30:18 AM by spacebarsux »
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Online mecch

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Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2011, 04:18:04 AM »
Now we seem to be discussing two different topics in this thread.

I think some responses were simply telling the OP the opinion that its not worth the energy responding to an endless supply of virtual/online personalities who express hatred and ignorance about HIV or HIV+ people in random places on the Internet.    The OP seemed exasperated by this ignorance so we said its good not to let that bad energy capture one's attention.

Then there is the topic of when and where to personally take a stand to fight stigma.  So some HIV+ people can do it with just about anyone around them in their lives, some people can do it sometimes - depending on the social arena or the potential for success of the education, and some people are pretty much living HIV secretly.

Lets not get all confused about what situations people are arguing about - what to say to whom and when.

All told - the more people are open about living with HIV, whether they be HIV+ people or people living with HIV+ people, or even educators like Annie "I am HIV+" T-shirt Lennox, the better.

Its not up to celebrities.  Its up to everyone. 

I told a bunch of 20 and 30 something acquaintances here where I live, soon after I seroconverted, and a number of them said they didn't know ANYONE who had HIV, which of course is one reason I told them because I know a few of them who are and, yes live it very secretly.  Putting a face on the situation that there is a fair amount of HIV around, I think helps move things in a good direction.

I don't think its of much value to take up the battle with random jerks on the NET.

But of course its important when people take up the battle for educating the general public, strangers, legislators, education in schools, etc etc.  Those who do fight for everyone with HIV are our heros.  (Not much do with with the OP's original situation, however - random jerks on the net.)
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline likinglife

  • Member
  • Posts: 7
  • A Nice Lady w/ AIDS
Re: Overwhelming Ignorance
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2011, 12:46:09 PM »
If only one of every 20 or 25 people living with HIV would just come out into the light... and show that HIV is still out there and infecting people of all kinds... It might go a long way toward normalizing us...

I don't think it's naive at ALL... if just one person who reads this thread decides to take the risk and share their story... it may save one life... and who can put a price on that?
PCP 7/15/10
CD4 26 at diagnosis 7/18/10
Started Kaletra & Combivir
CD4 28 9/29/10
CD4 76 12/8/10 vl=UD
Swap Combivir for Isentress
CD4 126 3/3/11 vl=UD
CD4 99 5/4/2011 vl=UD
CD4...still at 99 as of 8/18/2011 vl=UD

 


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