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Author Topic: Oral contradictions  (Read 1866 times)

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Offline addm68

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  • Posts: 2
Oral contradictions
« on: August 12, 2011, 07:42:33 AM »
Dear team,

I had written a long message but the session timed out while posting. Here a short version:

First of all thanks for the great work you do here. Now to my worries:

I was drunk one month ago and went to a brothel where I did unprotected cunnilingus on a SW for about 2 minutes and she did unprotected fellatio on me for about 10-15 minutes. Unfortunately, she infected me with Gonnorhea and of course the idea of having been infected with HIV worries me, especially since I'm in a steady relationship. I've been feeling fatigued and dizzy since 2 weeks after the exposure.

You say that oral sex is only a theoretical risk. Other sites such as thebody.com, CDC, etc state that oral sex could account for up to 8% of heterosexual HIV infections. Why is there such a contradiction to wht you say?What if there was menstrual blood in her vagina? Does this not elevate the probability of transmission drastically due to high concentration of HIV in blood? What if the fluid from her cervix (also high concentration HIV) was released and present in her vagina? What if these fluids came into contact with my bleeding gum or the damaged lining of my esophagus due to reflux disease? Have you really never heard of a confirmed casse of oral HIV transmission? Is HIV testing warranted?

Thanks very much.

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: Oral contradictions
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2011, 08:56:35 AM »
No incident HIV infections among MSM who practice exclusively oral sex.
Int Conf AIDS 2004 Jul 11-16; 15:(abstract no. WePpC2072)??Balls JE, Evans JL, Dilley J, Osmond D, Shiboski S, Shiboski C, Klausner J, McFarland W, Greenspan D, Page-Shafer K?University of California, San Francisco, San Francisco, United States

Oral transmission of HIV, reality or fiction? An update
J Campo1, MA Perea1, J del Romero2, J Cano1, V Hernando2, A Bascones1
Oral Diseases (2006) 12, 219–228

AIDS: Volume 16(17) 22 November 2002 pp 2350-2352
Risk of HIV infection attributable to oral sex among men who have sex with men and in the population of men who have sex with men

Page-Shafer, Kimberlya,b; Shiboski, Caroline Hb; Osmond, Dennis Hc; Dilley, Jamesd; McFarland, Willie; Shiboski, Steve Cc; Klausner, Jeffrey De; Balls, Joycea; Greenspan, Deborahb; Greenspan
Page-Shafer K, Veugelers PJ, Moss AR, Strathdee S, Kaldor JM, van Griensven GJ. Sexual risk behavior and risk factors for HIV-1 seroconversion in homosexual men participating in the Tricontinental Seroconverter Study, 1982-1994 [published erratum appears in Am J Epidemiol 1997 15 Dec; 146(12):1076]. Am J Epidemiol 1997, 146:531-542.

Studies which show the fallacy of relying on anecdotal evidence as opposed to carefully controlled study insofar as HIV transmission risk is concerned:

Jenicek M. "Clinical Case Reporting" in Evidence-Based Medicine. Oxford: Butterworth–Heinemann; 1999:117
Saltzman SP, Stoddard AM, McCusker J, Moon MW, Mayer KH. Reliability of self-reported sexual behavior risk factors for HIV infection in homosexual men. Public Health Rep. 1987 102(6):692–697.Nov–Dec;

Catania JA, Gibson DR, Chitwood DD, Coates TJ. Methodological problems in AIDS behavioral research: influences on measurement error and participation bias in studies of sexual behavior. Psychol Bull. 1990 Nov;108(3):339–362.

Offline addm68

  • member
  • Posts: 2
Re: Oral contradictions
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2011, 09:43:00 AM »
Hello RapidRod,

Thanks for posting the studies. If I understood correctly several of these studies invole MSM situations. Wouldn't oral sex with a woman, if there is menstrual blood present and swallowing did take place increase the risk significantly?

Would you say from your professional experience that my risk is negligible or should I have a 4th generation antibody/P24 test done now after 1 month to ease my mind? The sweating, fatigue, dizziness has had me somewhat worried.

Thanks.

Offline Andy Velez

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  • Member
  • Posts: 24,697
Re: Oral contradictions
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2011, 10:25:28 AM »
There is nothing in anyway HIV-specific about your symptoms. They are something you should discuss with your doctor if they persist.

HIV is a fragile virus and not easily transmitted. Your saliva contains over a dozen elements and proteins which very effectively prevent the transmission of viable HIV.

The only reason for you to get tested is for your peace of mind to receive the inevitable negative result. That is up to you.
Andy Velez

Offline Ann

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  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Oral contradictions
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2011, 11:21:30 AM »
add,

It's not uncommon to end up with gonorrhea after getting an unprotected blowjob. It's very possible to have gonorrhea in the throat and pass it on that way. However, hiv is NOT transmitted in this way. Gonorrhea and hiv are two totally different things - for a start, gonorrhea is an easily transmitted bacterial infection. It's also a local infection, unlike hiv.

Hiv is a fragile, difficult to transmit virus. As for oral sex, not only is saliva not infectious, but it also contains over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and render it unable to infect.

Hiv transmission doesn't stand a chance of happening via female genitals to mouth - there are just too many obstacles on the oral route.

The first obstacle is the mouth itself. The mouth is a veritable fortress, standing against all sorts of pathogens we come into contact with every minute of our lives. It's a very hostile environment and saliva has been shown to contain over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv.

Hiv is a very fragile virus - literally. Its outer surface doesn't take kindly to changes in its preferred environment; slight changes in temperature, moisture content and pH levels all damage the outer surface. Importantly, it needs this outer surface to be intact before it can latch onto a few, very specific cell types and infect. 

Which leads to the second obstacle. Hiv can only latch onto certain types of cells, cells which are not found in abundance in the mouth.

The third obstacle to transmission this way is having hiv present in the first place. The female secretion where hiv has been shown to be present is the cervicovaginal fluid. This fluid is actually a thick mucus that covers and protects the cervix.

The fluid a woman produces when sexually excited comes from the Bartholin's glands, located on either side of the vaginal opening. I have yet to discover one shred of evidence (and believe me, I've looked) that shows this lubricating fluid to have any more hiv present than other bodily secretions such as saliva, sweat or tears. Saliva, sweat and tears are NOT infectious fluids.

So there you have it. Once the results of the serodiscordant studies* started rolling in, what we know about hiv transmission on the cellular level was validated. The only people who were getting infected were those who had unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse. Period. One of the three studies went on for ten years and involved hundreds of couples. That's a lot of nookie.

*There have been three long-term studies of couples where one is positive and one is negative. In the couples who used condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, but no barrier for oral activities, not one of the negative partners became infected with hiv. Not one.

Here's what you need to know in order to avoid hiv infection:

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.

To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

ALTHOUGH YOU DO NOT NEED TO SPECIFICALLY TEST FOR HIV OVER YOUR RECENT ORAL ACTIVITIES, anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.

Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv - as you have discovered for yourself first-hand.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline addm68

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  • Posts: 2
Re: Oral contradictions
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2011, 12:19:14 PM »
Thanks a lot for your support and the answers/infos! I really appreciate it.

The clinic also did a syphilis blood test 12 days post exposure which came back negative. Do you think the window period was long enough? Would a normal urethra swab have picked up a possible endemic candidiasis or is that only possible through bloodwork?

Thanks once again.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Oral contradictions
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2011, 02:09:47 PM »
Our focus here is strictly on HIV-related concerns.

I will say that as far as syphillis is concerned symptoms can show up anywhere from 10 days to 3 months. You should discuss any concerns you have about other STDs with your doctor.

Andy Velez

Offline addm68

  • member
  • Posts: 2
Re: Oral contradictions
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2011, 02:30:58 PM »
Ok, thanks a lot to all of you for your patience and help. Best wishes. Over and out.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Oral contradictions
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2011, 02:40:04 PM »
OK. You're welcome.
Andy Velez

 


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