Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
E-newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr MySpace
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
April 20, 2014, 07:44:13 AM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 620460
  • Total Topics: 46751
  • Online Today: 191
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online
Users: 3
Guests: 131
Total: 134

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory  (Read 5256 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline randym431

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,106
Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« on: August 11, 2011, 10:37:13 AM »
Ok... Im going to toss this out there. Ignore me or whatever if you want. But ......

I have always felt at heart, had this gut "feeling", that HIV in itself was totally man made.
Not so much developed to specifically target gays or minorities, but still a man made virus.
Most likely created during the cold war just after WWII, when both the US government and other governments were shell shocked and paranoid from the devastation's of wars.
And then began playing war games in the lab, as well as developing new weaponry of all types.
Playing the war games of "what if". Could we do it different?
Could we target specific peoples, races, breeds?
Are there other ways to win wars other than troops, bullets and bombs?

So at some point HIV was "invented" in a lab, and placed on the shelf of germ warfare.
How, when, why or by whom it was decided to target humans, i.e. the gay population, that I have no idea.
Someone must have pondered the sexual nature habits of gay men.
The unlikelihood of their sexual nature spreading beyond such a close nit yet largely connected society.
Their nature of promiscuity. The unique opportunity to target such a group with incurable deadly illness.

So... in my heart I truly believe HIV was man made by the dark side of our military in a lab, and kept very top secret.
No doubt there are other man made viruses sitting on shelf's, highly protected, in military labs.
Germ warfare designed solely to play non aggressive war games against other countries and civilizations.
We will never know.

So now, with hearing that HIV has actually been altered and developed as a "delivery system" for treating cancer i.e. leukemia, has got my attention. And that one lonely scientist was successful in doing this.
All while not one research organization would give assistance or support, or help with funding in the developing this leukemia "miracle treatment".

I am extremely grateful and thankful such a huge advancement has been made in treating the most common form of leukemia, but beyond that I just can not stop wondering if there isn't more to this story?
Not that we will ever know.
Or that the US military would give up their most top secret secrets in germ warfare development during the cold war era.

Still, I have this sick gut feeling that this breakthrough is actually a very slight hint exposed, that HIV in itself was no freak of nature virus.

My theory may be very much of an off the wall theory to put out there, but I for one have never under estimated the depths that the dark side of governments function in.
I just wanted to toss this out there. I don't know why or for what good. But there you have it...

And not to take away any of the good from this new miracle leukemia break through treatment.
But can you imagine if my theory was actually true?
Just too unthinkable?

If we had not gone through as history, would people ever believe that one single mad man like Adolf Hitler could ever come into power then proceed to kill millions of humanity. People would never believe that the Holocaust, as a theory, could ever happen. But as we know all to well, that was in fact very possible.

Something just bothers me about this treatment news. Not that a new and fantastic cancer treatment has been developed, but HIV could be used as a delivery system. Possibly a hint, a slight clue, that just possibly in fact HIV was actually man made.
And if anyone were able put this theory puzzle together, found this to be at all true, how would humanity react?
That a modern society would actually use a deadly man made weapon, germ warfare, in an attempt to target and reduce their own people thought of as a threat and "undesirable"?

And the innocent not targeted lives lost as result? Acceptable causalities of war.
I wonder of we will ever know. Could this have happened? Could this be true?
Could the use of HIV to deliver a treatment for cancer be the smoking gun?

Ps. Im not saying anyone involved in the discovery of this cancer treatment could have ever know of some sinister government involvement concerning HIV. Or that there was some government knowledge and cover up by the overall US medical system.
If my theory were ever proven true, in any way on any level, I believe highly limited very few would have ever known the truth behind what actually went on. So few that we could never know anything about such a highly guarded national secret.

Offline Grasshopper

  • Member
  • Posts: 442
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2011, 11:16:36 AM »
WTF ?

You ignored the need for complex passwords, and now somebody hacked into your computer and posted this....this weird essay    ???

Offline leatherman

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,922
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2011, 12:39:58 PM »
How, when, why or by whom it was decided to target humans, i.e. the gay population, that I have no idea.
Someone must have pondered the sexual nature habits of gay men.
The unlikelihood of their sexual nature spreading beyond such a close nit yet largely connected society.
Their nature of promiscuity. The unique opportunity to target such a group with incurable deadly illness.
well that's a very homophobic viewpoint considering the vast majority (ie millions) of people that have been stricken with HIV and those who have died from AIDS are heterosexual Africans.

While I might be able to consider your underlying conspiracy thoughts about HIV being a man-made virus, the logic and premise you presented here are incredibly faulty. While some points are correct about many gays being interconnected and that may explain the "how" (the mechanics) of the epidemic spread in America, that has no basis at all on the "why" (somehow aiming at a target group).

Perhaps learning a bit more about the history of HIV and this worldwide epidemic would help you to see that because HIV was introduced and initially spread in several subpopulations in America is the only reason one could ever erroneously believe this was targeted at gays and gay sexual activities (although it also started its North American spread among IV drug (heroin) users, hemophiliacs and Haitians too - the 4H's). The spread of HIV has nothing whatsoever to do with gays or gay sexual activities, but basically with blood, sexual fluids during unprotected sex and breast milk.

Please come visit the state of SC (and several other states) and see that even outside of Africa HIV is not a "gay-specific disease" at all as 73% of persons infected with HIV are African Americans - with around 70% of the women in that group being infected through heterosexual contact, and close to 15% of the men being infected through heterosexual contact.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Oh my friends, my friends forgive me
That I live and you are gone.
There's a grief that can't be spoken.
There's a pain goes on and on.
Empty chairs at empty tables
Where my friends will meet no more.

"Empty Chairs at Empty Tables" from Les Miserables

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 10,736
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2011, 01:44:41 PM »
Come again?

So I start reading this thread, then get to second paragraph.  So look at OP, 1000 posts! 

But then can't read anymore of the OP's post after "man-made virus" - its too depressing. 

Also wondering how this post is possible.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline klassykitty

  • Member
  • Posts: 375
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2011, 04:33:23 PM »
So I am a straight girl who got AIDS from her straight ex-husband.  Not quite sure where your gay theory comes in at.

 I  have more gay friends that are couples that have been together longer then most of my straight friends or couples in my own family (hope that made sense).

Really are the sex habits of a gay guy any different then a straight guy?  Probably not, a guy is a guy after all.  (sorry guys).

I'm starting to like Mecch more and more, but can't figure out what the number of posts has to do with anything.

Michelle   8)

P.S.  I promise not to respond to anything again when I am in a pissy, men are stupid mood.





A true gentleman hold the door for his woman.
Then he smacks her ass!
Diagnosed 01-20-2011
01-23  CD4 32    VL 125,400
02-18        76     VL 189
03-14  no cd4 test done   VL-52
04-14   69  VL-UNDECTABLE  YEA!!
05-26   50  whoopsy  
06-27   71        %-7
08-15   64 WTF %-9 
10-16  80         %7  
2012  CD4  %Thing   VL-UD
01-18  87    7
04-18  93    8  
07-16  151  8         
10-18  83    9    VL-70
2013   CD4   %thing       VL-UD
01-28  121     9
04-24  148    11   
07-25  157    11   
10-22  185    13
2014   CD-4  %thing   VL-UD
02-07 201 YEA!!!!!!  %12

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 10,736
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2011, 09:22:04 PM »
well that's a very homophobic viewpoint considering the vast majority (ie millions) of people that have been stricken with HIV and those who have died from AIDS are heterosexual Africans.

While I might be able to consider your underlying conspiracy thoughts about HIV being a man-made virus, the logic and premise you presented here are incredibly faulty. While some points are correct about many gays being interconnected and that may explain the "how" (the mechanics) of the epidemic spread in America, that has no basis at all on the "why" (somehow aiming at a target group).

Perhaps learning a bit more about the history of HIV and this worldwide epidemic would help you to see that because HIV was introduced and initially spread in several subpopulations in America is the only reason one could ever erroneously believe this was targeted at gays and gay sexual activities (although it also started its North American spread among IV drug (heroin) users, hemophiliacs and Haitians too - the 4H's). The spread of HIV has nothing whatsoever to do with gays or gay sexual activities, but basically with blood, sexual fluids during unprotected sex and breast milk.

Yes.

Oh Kitty I mean, how does a member be around so long, post 1000 times, and yet come up with this shoddy conspiracy theory now.

Randy, you should take Leathers advice and read a good history of HIV, even start with wikipedia. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_AIDS
http://www.avert.org/origin-aids-hiv.htm

A great site for you is:
http://www.aidstruth.org/


Also you should read a little summary of HIV conspiracy theories.  There are more plausible ones then yours, though they are all garbage.
http://www.slate.com/id/2186860/

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,160
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2011, 09:50:26 PM »
I suspect this is a variation on the "WHO invented HIV to control the global population" theme that has been around for about 20 years.

Basically the idea is that back in the 1960s the World Health Organisation was instructed to come up with a plan to control populations in Asia and Africa and HIV was born. To ensure it worked it was tested in homosexual male populations (who would not be missed by decent folks) in the West.

This was achieved by using the recombinant HBV vaccines to infect ass bandit communities by stealth. HIV appeared shortly after recHBV vaccines were introduced.

Coincidence? I think not, etc.

Of course HIV proved to be highly effective in trimming numbers and was then spread to the hot countries as per the Grand Plan.

MtD

Offline bocker3

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,260
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2011, 10:15:21 PM »
Time to break out the tin foil hats!!   ::)

Of course, your entire "theory" is nuts, but let's just look at one angle of it, shall we.  IF the military was looking at a biologic agent to wage war -- HIV would certainly be a poor choice -- what is the army going to do -- sit around and wait for the years it would take to actually destroy the other side's soldiers?  Simply doesn't make any sense -- but then none of crap you regurgitated in this thread really does.

I know -- maybe HIV was invented by the government to cover up their plans to bring down the Twin Towers -- yeah, that's it!!

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline jkinatl2

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,007
  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2011, 12:19:51 AM »
Problem is, we have identified HIV in people dating as far back as the 1930s. We simply did not have the technology then to even identify HIV. Hell, it was  almost two decades into the pandemic before we could image the thing using advanced technology.

We simply have not been that smart that long enough to do it.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 10,736
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2011, 04:32:41 AM »
Yes Louis Farrakhan explained it all years ago. The Black Man made a big mistake inventing white man in a laboratory.  Cause the White man eventually included the Jew, and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion have been responsible for all 20th century evil, including both Communism AND Capitalism, the national debt, war, Hollywood, Kentucky Fried Chicken and inventing AIDS to inject into Black babies.  Everyone knows 9/11 was the work of Israel.  ::)
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 27,947
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2011, 10:16:04 AM »
This is another thread (like the tattoo and hiv thread) that does not belong in the Off Topic forum, but I can't get the software to move it. More deleted, useless redirection threads in the bin are the only results of my efforts. ~sigh~

I was trying to put it into the Research News and Studies forum, although it's not really a good fit there either, but as a lot of people "study" these conspiracy theories, I thought I'd go that route. Only the software won't let me anyway so it's a moot point right now.

Maybe we need a "Tinfoil Hat Corner" forum for conspiracy theorists.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline poz91

  • Member
  • Posts: 74
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2011, 03:30:21 PM »
For what it's worth (and you may as well go ahead and pass me the Reynolds Wrap, lol)...

Our government was in fact conducting biological experiments on minority populations involving fatal sexually transmitted diseases at least as far back as the 1930's and 40's and continuing through the 70's in Tuskegee, Alabama and Guatemala. And these are just the two instances that we know about thanks to whistleblowers going public with this information.

Our country was also openly practicing eugenics up until the early 60's with compulsory sterilizations being forced on inmates in prisons, patients in mental facilities, and on women during childbirth to reduce the "criminal" and other "undesirable" elements in America.

It doesn't require a tinfoil hat or even a quantum leap to believe that the minority-specific biological experimentation and the eugenics programs that were taking place in this country during our lifetime has had consequences, and if the POTUS addressed the nation this afternoon shamefully admitting that our government played a role in deliberately introducing a deadly sexually transmitted disease into the community... it wouldn't be the first time.

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 10,736
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2011, 03:41:51 PM »
Please read some of the links provided, above.

HIV came to the USA from abroad. 

Yes Tuskegee was hideous.  But it's apples and oranges, man.  Tuskegee was about denial of treatment out of a lack of respect for civil rights and human dignity.

Communities that have been oppressed and abused have every reason to be skeptical and distrustful of the powers that abused.  But also all the more reason to value facts, empirical research, so as not to end up in Farrakhan la la land. 

For example, do you not know ANYTHING about denialism in South African history? 

Oh my lord, this is dire.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline spacebarsux

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,350
  • Survival of the Fittest
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2011, 04:03:22 PM »
I thought the virus crossed over to humans after some chimpanzee shot a load of semen in a human's ass- who also happened to be munching on bloody monkey bush-meat at the same time. My theory is way more controversial. ;)
 



« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 04:06:14 PM by spacebarsux »
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,160
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2011, 05:40:25 PM »
For what it's worth (and you may as well go ahead and pass me the Reynolds Wrap, lol)...

Our government was in fact conducting biological experiments on minority populations involving fatal sexually transmitted diseases at least as far back as the 1930's and 40's and continuing through the 70's in Tuskegee, Alabama and Guatemala. And these are just the two instances that we know about thanks to whistleblowers going public with this information.

Our country was also openly practicing eugenics up until the early 60's with compulsory sterilizations being forced on inmates in prisons, patients in mental facilities, and on women during childbirth to reduce the "criminal" and other "undesirable" elements in America.

It doesn't require a tinfoil hat or even a quantum leap to believe that the minority-specific biological experimentation and the eugenics programs that were taking place in this country during our lifetime has had consequences, and if the POTUS addressed the nation this afternoon shamefully admitting that our government played a role in deliberately introducing a deadly sexually transmitted disease into the community... it wouldn't be the first time.

This is a big fat non-sequitur.

We know where HIV came from. (link)

Your post is a good example of the Problem of Belief.

MtD

Offline poz91

  • Member
  • Posts: 74
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2011, 12:36:35 AM »
We know where HIV came from. (link)

All we definitively 'know' is that HIV crossed species from primate to man. Even the link you posted admits that exactly how or when that actually occurred will likely never be known, that it probably wasn't due to a single instance, and that in the end it really doesn't matter because many factors have played a role in its being spread throughout the human population since then.

And that was essentially my point by mentioning the Tuskegee and Guatemala experiments and eugenics programs conducted by our own government. Some of the reactions to the OP of this thread just seemed a bit harsh, as if the sort of thing he was suggesting has never happened before...

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,160
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2011, 02:29:38 AM »
All we definitively 'know' is that HIV crossed species from primate to man. Even the link you posted admits that exactly how or when that actually occurred will likely never be known, that it probably wasn't due to a single instance, and that in the end it really doesn't matter because many factors have played a role in its being spread throughout the human population since then.

Yus. But we also know that HIV was not invented in a lab on the orders of shady NWO conspirators  to rid the world of darkies/rump rangers/$undesireables_of_choice.

That was my point, really. Which is supported by the evidence of HIV having evolved like most any other infectious nasty.

Quote
And that was essentially my point by mentioning the Tuskegee and Guatemala experiments and eugenics programs conducted by our own government. Some of the reactions to the OP of this thread just seemed a bit harsh, as if the sort of thing he was suggesting has never happened before...

I don't think that the Tuskegee/Guatamala experiments are really applicable to a situation such as this. Which is another reason why Randy's OP is so fuck-headed.

MtD

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 10,736
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2011, 06:28:16 AM »
I think conspiracy theories are fascinating and that they have both constructive and destructive possibilities.  

They are constructive because they help blow off steam, vent fears and because they ARE a sign of skepticism, critical distance, questioning of the party line and powers that be, etc.  

They are destructive when people really believe them, or when they are the only source of "info" so encourage ignorance of the facts, or when they are vehicles for racism or xenophobia, and/or when they are born of skepticism or persecution or powerlessness but end up being auto-destructive.  Auto-destructive by displacing or dissuading the identification, attention, action from the real cause, or the best solution, to something ineffective, to myth, to fatalism, to victim-hood, etc.

I don't if know anyone in this thread is in the destructive realm of these beliefs.  I'm sure the critical response to the OP is just forum members making sure there is a reality check.

As for bringing up Tuskegee, it begs the question of conspiracy theories about HIV among black Americans.  I tried to find a short and not too judgmental article discussing this:

Opinion
Conspiracy theories about HIV do real harm
http://www.thegrio.com/opinion/conspiracy-theories-about-hiv-do-real-harm.php

"HIV does not cause AIDS." "AIDS is a man-made disease created by the US government that got out of control." "HIV medications are really poison." "The US government has a cure that they are keeping from black people as a method of genocide."

Some version of all of these rumors circulate in homes, barber shops, churches, and among activists in the African-American community. But if we're going to get serious as a community about ending the AIDS epidemic, we've got to deal with what we know works, and not let the conspiracies keep us from mobilizing to prevent the spread of HIV.

In fact, the conspiracy theories may also affect blacks who already have HIV. A new study released by the Journal of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (JAIDS) surveyed 214 HIV-positive African-American men in Los Angeles (only 22 percent of whom were heterosexual), asked them about their belief in various HIV-related conspiracy theories, and then tested their blood for levels of anti-retroviral drugs, to look for drug adherence.

The study found that almost two-thirds (64 percent) agreed with at least one HIV conspiracy belief; about half (48 percent) agreed with 2 or more. Forty-four percent believed that HIV is man-made, 35 percent thought that AIDS was created in a government laboratory, and a third endorsed the genocidal belief related to the withholding of a cure. Conspiracy beliefs about medications were also substantially endorsed, with 22 percent believing that people who take the new HIV medications are human guinea pigs for the government and 17 percent believing that the medications are poison.

The study also showed that the men who believed the conspiracies about the medication itself were less likely to adhere to treatments prescribed by their doctors. Lower adherence to drug treatments means that those with HIV are more likely to transmit the virus to others. People who go on and off their medications are also more likely to develop resistance to the drugs, which makes their HIV more difficult to treat as they run out of effective options.

Unfortunately, the men in this study have good reason to be suspicious of modern medicine, the medical establishment, and clinical trials. Though the Tuskeegee Experiment is always given as the only example of medical misconduct of African-Americans, Harriet Washington's expertly researched book, Medical Apartheid, gives a harrowing account of medical exploitation of blacks from the chattel slave period through the present. Though Washington herself exposes very grotesque forms of medical violence and exploitation on the backs of blacks, she also explains that blacks need to be involved in science and medicine as researchers and also as participants in clinical trials.

My problem is not that people are skeptical of what they're told. That's healthy. But when conspiracies give us an excuse to ignore the epidemic around us, we're actually participating in our own demise. The South African government endorsed many of the denialist conspiracies for a decade. That decade could have been spent preventing what is now a widespread HIV epidemic in that country.

If we want to end AIDS and to learn about the conspiracies, there are things we can do, and there are some things for which specific institutions are responsible. We can demand that science and medicinal researchers produce and disseminate research findings to communities who need it and not just to each other. We can demand more useful health/science literacy and sex education in our schools. But in relation to AIDS, we are acting almost on conspiracy alone, and not on information that we have available.

In the absence of a cure for HIV, demanding more accountability from the institutions that should be providing better information to communities might be one weapon in the fight.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2011, 06:30:53 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline randym431

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,106
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2011, 10:56:56 AM »
 ;D   Oh... The Monkeys. I forgot about the monkeys.

So if you were in needs to test your new virus out, seeking "real time" results and looking for that "real world" experience, how would you do it? Put it to the test?

How about infecting some closed nit group of animals in the animal world. Say........ monkeys?
Study the trend of the spread of infection. Would / does it actually work?
Sorry.. I forgot about the monkeys...
And I also loved the included links (offered as proof), noticing the words "It is now generally accepted".
Ok, guess that ends that...

Seriously...
I was really shocked to come back in here and find such hoopla going on.

Remember... I "DID" state several times in my little thread "that" my little thread could simply be ignored, or simply written off as too far fetched.
Actually, I did not know my ramblings even had posted, since when I originally typed then hit "post", I got back
"SEVER ERROR -  TRY AGAIN LATER".
And everything I typed had vanished.
So I figured AIDMEDS was having issues and I moved on...

Also... I was attempting to place my little theory thread in OFF TOPIC section.
Since when did OFF TOPIC not mean OFF TOPIC?
I.e. "OFF TOPIC". = Not on topic. To be Off topic.
"~sign~"

However... this turns out very interesting. Very interesting indeed.
~sigh~ ?
Sure!!! Delete if you wish ANN.

But this kind of answers my question as to why so many of the original 2005 members have quit coming in here.
Stopped getting involved. Hmmmmmm ~sigh~ ?
Just let us all know, ANN, and the other self appoint forum elite, what the secret hand shake is for next week.
Wouldn't want to step on any ... golden toes.
"~sign~"  (I love that...) "~sign~"  Simply incredible...  ::)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 11:02:18 AM by randym431 »

Offline Jeff G

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 9,272
  • How am I doing Beren ?
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2011, 11:03:55 AM »
So Randy .... I take it you are sore that you didn't get the response you hoped for ? What was you intention of posting this if you didn't want/expect replies ?   

Offline randym431

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,106
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2011, 11:05:47 AM »
Reply speaks for itself..

Ps.. Well maybe that was a little harsh.
But I have wondered where and why so many of the original members had disappeared to?
Not so much of a mystery for me now...
I've seen a lot of wild posts in here. I've sure started my share too as we can tell.
But for the threat of "delete" simply because I forgot the weekly secret handshake? Stepped on a few toes?
Really...
Seriously.

My thread was inconsequential. Forget that.
Just tell them "Buddy sent me"... :D
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 11:27:20 AM by randym431 »

Offline Grasshopper

  • Member
  • Posts: 442
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2011, 11:16:25 AM »
Perhaps first elaborate on this or provide a link :

"So now, with hearing that HIV has actually been altered and developed as a "delivery system" for treating cancer i.e. leukemia"

With HIV being so elusive and dangerous, I can't imagine anyone messing with it to cure something else.

(* by the way I love conspiracy theories  :) *)

Offline Jeff G

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 9,272
  • How am I doing Beren ?
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2011, 11:23:17 AM »
Reply speaks for itself..

Well maybe that was a little harsh.
But I have wondered where and why so many of the original members had disappeared to?
Not really that much of a mystery now...

I wasn't being rude to you I just wanted to know what you were feeling about it . You admitted it was an odd thread or far fetched was your word . Then you seem to take it in another direction with another conspiracy theory about an aids med elite running people off . 

Offline leatherman

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,922
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2011, 11:34:10 AM »
With HIV being so elusive and dangerous, I can't imagine anyone messing with it to cure something else.
This news, as crazy as it sounds that a modified version of HIV may be the cure for leukemia, is about a week old. ;)

New leukemia treatment exceeds 'wildest expectations'
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44090512/ns/health-cancer/t/new-leukemia-treatment-exceeds-wildest-expectations/

HIV Virus Used In New Treatment to Cure Leukemia
http://gimundo.com/news/article/hiv-virus-used-in-new-treatment-to-cure-leukemia/

or how about the thread right here in the forums
Using HIV to cure leukemia
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39246.0
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Oh my friends, my friends forgive me
That I live and you are gone.
There's a grief that can't be spoken.
There's a pain goes on and on.
Empty chairs at empty tables
Where my friends will meet no more.

"Empty Chairs at Empty Tables" from Les Miserables

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 10,736
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2011, 11:38:36 AM »
People debunked your theory.  Which you claim was a whim so members should have never taken you seriously? WTF?

Sadly, people believe such theories seeing themselves as resistants, revolutionaries, nobody's sucker, or critical skeptics.

Bravo for you if you think its just a fun thing to think about. Fine.

Recognise that the myths about HIV/AIDS sometimes hurt people who believe them.

Recognise that the US military had nothing to do with the South African disaster, it was a black government destroying black people.  

And why do 44% of those Los Angeles black gay HIV+ men think HIV is manmade?  That's not a whimsical number to dismiss.

If anyone is clever enough to disbelieve conspiracy theories but consider them interesting to think about, for god's sake a least post the disclaimer when one brings up the conspiracies to talk about!  "I don't really believe this, but.... it's interesting to think about."

You wanted people to ignore?  Tough luck.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 11:42:39 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 27,947
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2011, 11:50:40 AM »
Randy, enough with the persecution complex already! Jeeze. Nobody ever threatened you with deletion. All I said was that this topic didn't belong in Off Topic. For the purposes of this forum, off topic means topics that have nothing to do with hiv. I would have moved the thread (NOT deleted) but the software is currently haywire and I can't move threads at the moment.

And for the record, I'm not a "self appointed" anything. I was invited to become a forum moderator in 2002 and was bumped up to an admin in 2006 or thereabout. So chill already!
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline leatherman

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,922
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2011, 11:52:00 AM »
But I have wondered where and why so many of the original members had disappeared to?
what members have disappeared? Just because everyone doesn't get involved in every thread doesn't mean that they disappeared. ;)

Since this is a support site, many people come here, get support or information, and then go back to their regular lives of working, loving, and living etc. Plenty of other people read the forums regularly without posting, so they are still around, just not participating as much.

seen a lot of wild posts in here. I've sure started my share too as we can tell.
But for the threat of "delete" simply because I forgot the weekly secret handshake? Stepped on a few toes?
Really...
Seriously.

My thread was inconsequential. Forget that.
Just tell them "Buddy sent me"... :D
you posted a pretty radical thought-provoking thread with some information that really can neither be proved or disproved. Some members pointed out fallacies while others suggested other similar conspiracy theories. You probably should have realized that ANY conspiracy about HIV borders on the false science denialists use to deceive people - even as far as to deceive people from getting proper treatment! Of course then, members were going to try to point out the problems with any conspiracy theory so that casual readers don't get mislead.

can I imagine HIV as a man-made virus meant to be used as a weapon? Perhaps. Do I think there may be some conspiracies involved in the 9/11 fall of the twin towers? Perhaps. But proving either is nigh unto impossible to prove and not worth much to the causal layman to discuss.

However, I do know that talking about these kinds of conspiracies with HIV leads to people not getting proper treatment and to their deaths; therefore this isn't a topic to be taken as a whim and hence why so many people responded negatively in this thread.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Oh my friends, my friends forgive me
That I live and you are gone.
There's a grief that can't be spoken.
There's a pain goes on and on.
Empty chairs at empty tables
Where my friends will meet no more.

"Empty Chairs at Empty Tables" from Les Miserables

Offline Grasshopper

  • Member
  • Posts: 442
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2011, 01:06:21 PM »
This news, as crazy as it sounds that a modified version of HIV may be the cure for leukemia, is about a week old. ;)

New leukemia treatment exceeds 'wildest expectations'
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44090512/ns/health-cancer/t/new-leukemia-treatment-exceeds-wildest-expectations/

HIV Virus Used In New Treatment to Cure Leukemia
http://gimundo.com/news/article/hiv-virus-used-in-new-treatment-to-cure-leukemia/

or how about the thread right here in the forums
Using HIV to cure leukemia
http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39246.0

Thanks  ;)

Offline bocker3

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,260
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2011, 02:18:11 PM »
Oh, I get it Randy -- you want fellow posters to either agree with your insane theory or ignore it.  Now it's clear -- you are all about agreement.

Well -- TOUGH SHIT.  You post something, you open yourself to people disagreeing with you.  So stop your crying already -- you knew EXACTLY what sort of comments your were going to get when you posted this vomit of a thread. 

So toughen up already or stop posting "controversial" posts.

M
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,160
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2011, 06:01:21 PM »
you posted a pretty radical thought-provoking thread with some information that really can neither be proved or disproved. Some members pointed out fallacies while others suggested other similar conspiracy theories. You probably should have realized that ANY conspiracy about HIV borders on the false science denialists use to deceive people - even as far as to deceive people from getting proper treatment! Of course then, members were going to try to point out the problems with any conspiracy theory so that casual readers don't get mislead.

Bullshit Mikey. Of course Randy's deranged OP can be disproved. There is an awesome body of watertight, 24 karat, furlined, sea-going HIV science that disproves it. Randy's OP is flat out freeperesque wing nuttery.

Quote
can I imagine HIV as a man-made virus meant to be used as a weapon? Perhaps. Do I think there may be some conspiracies involved in the 9/11 fall of the twin towers? Perhaps. But proving either is nigh unto impossible to prove and not worth much to the causal layman to discuss.

I've never held you in the highest regard but I must say even I'm a bit surprised to learn that you're a 9/11 troofer. ::)

MtD

Offline buginme2

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,751
  • Certified Life Coach
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2011, 07:41:27 PM »
The thing about consiracy theories is that no matter how many facts are produced discounting it as hogwash, people continue to hold on to it.  Example: President Obama not being born in the U.S. He can produce his birth certificate and people will "adjust" the theory around the facts. 

If a conspiracy theory was supported by any amount of truth it wouldnt be a theory it would be reality and it most certainly wouldnt be a conspiracy. 

Arguing with anyone who beleives in conspiracy theories is about as usefull as banging your head against a brick wall.
"All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6e0gcEC1TWE

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,160
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2011, 07:51:25 PM »
The thing about consiracy theories is that no matter how many facts are produced discounting it as hogwash, people continue to hold on to it.  Example: President Obama not being born in the U.S. He can produce his birth certificate and people will "adjust" the theory around the facts. 

If a conspiracy theory was supported by any amount of truth it wouldnt be a theory it would be reality and it most certainly wouldnt be a conspiracy. 

Arguing with anyone who beleives in conspiracy theories is about as usefull as banging your head against a brick wall.

Yus. This is what I meant when I referred above to the "Problem of Belief."

MtD

Offline Assurbanipal

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,173
  • Taking a forums break, still see PM's
Re: Leukemia treatment using HIV, and my controversial theory
« Reply #32 on: August 16, 2011, 02:25:58 PM »
Randy

Your theory seems to rest on an argument that the ability to modify an HIV virus to deliver new genes to cells (AKA gene therapy) may indicate that the HIV virus is manmade.

But people have been working on gene therapy for 30 years.  Back when I was a young grad student, the hot news was that they were experimenting with adenoviruses to deliver gene therapy (adenoviruses include the virus for the common cold). 

They've experimented with a number of other viruses as ways to deliver gene therapy over the years.  Eventually someone had a brainstorm and realized that because leukemia manifests in cells that HIV goes after, using a modified HIV virus to deliver the gene therapy was likely to work.  They tried it and it did.

But that doesn't imply HIV was uniquely easy to modify -- many other viruses have been modified and used before it.

A
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.