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Author Topic: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic  (Read 23112 times)

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Offline leatherman

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #100 on: September 01, 2011, 09:58:02 AM »
This "mental preparedness" is hardly an obligatory prerequisite to starting HAART.   Many people start without this and find, in addition to the main little benefit of it wiping out an active HIV infection and rebuilding healthy immunity, psychological benefits as well.  Win win.
exactly! that's why I have such a hard time understanding all the moaning and hand-wringing about starting HAART. According to the stats 1/3 of us find out we have HIV by being in the hospital with an AIDS-defining illnesses. In those situations, the doctors tell you to start taking these meds (HAART) and pray you don't die before they have the chance to work. There's no time for "mental preparedness". LOL

If waiting that long didn't do such long-term damage to the immune system, I would suggest everyone wait until they were hospitalized to start meds. It's makes you oh so much more appreciative of their life-sustaining, life-renewing properties, while making even the thought of side effects inconsequential.  ;D
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Online emeraldize

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #101 on: September 01, 2011, 11:00:38 AM »
Since,

Were I to do it over again, and my numbers, both CD4 and VL were remarkably similar to yours at the same time period post-diagnosis, (except my percentage was higher) I would start HAART now as your doctor is suggesting.

Listen closely to his rationale. And, do some reading in advance of your visit with him. I suggest you make a truly informed decision, not once based on will or whim. I was once told a sign of intelligence is the ability to learn from the mistakes of others.

Em


Offline Since2005

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #102 on: September 01, 2011, 01:14:04 PM »
Hi Buginme, Rev Moon, Leatherman, Space, Meech, Bocker (Mike), and EM for your comments and support. I thought I was gonna wait out a little bit before I write my comments on the thread again, but it looks like thread is moving towards an issue that was not originally intended.

@Space

-From my reading of all his posts (especially the most recent one) he is not mentally prepared to start right now and that is his choice
I am not saying you are not incorrect but that’s not the reason I want to delay my meds treatment

Given that Since went 6 whole years without even following up on his diagnosis, jumping on the meds bandwagon based on a single test when he himself states that he is not ready
You are correct on the single test issue. However, I will tell you that like you, I would start HAART in a heartbeat and would ‘Jump on the meds bandwagon’ if my CD4 count were 350 or nearing that area with a high viral load to save my life.

Well I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this- in the context of Since's predicament.
I agree, I have a harder predicament but this also could be a bit misleading since I stated earlier that the reason I want to wait to start meds is not my predicaments, not my HIV acceptance issues, or its not even the adherence or commitment issues. I would still need to wait to get more med stats to get an understanding of my HIV status before I even get to that point of commitment. I agree that everyone including myself would have to deal with the commitment issues eventually when time comes. When it comes to a matter of saving life, I will start taking HAART even if I am not ready for commitment as I stated earlier. Having said that, You and I are on the same page finding out more on the trends of the med stats before making any decisions on meds.

@Bocker – Doc did bring up the resistance testing but I am still waiting for ADAP to get approved and the testing costs a bit more so he thought to wait after I had my discussions with him on starting meds. He may be planning to do resistance testing before the second med stat and by then hopefully insurance will be approved.

@EM
Listen closely to his rationale. And, do some reading in advance of your visit with him. I suggest you make a truly informed decision, not once based on will or whim.

I know what you are saying. That's what I have been doing for last six/seven years. Even though I was not able to bring myself (as I was having issues - not justifying here rather stating as a fact) to visit any doctors to treat HIV , believe me, I have been educating myself on HIV related information all these years. Based on the informed information, I do take a stand, I am with the team that supports starting meds when it is 'absolutely' necessary not before. In another words, I am not an advocate of starting meds early, quite the opposite. In my case, it is absurd to even start meds now since there are many times we hear about the ‘lab reports errors’ happens, right? I am not saying that’s what happened here but  with two reports, I will get a ‘better picture’, and with three/four reports I may get a trend. That’s what I want to do (unless I find out huge downwards issues with my stat).  I am glad to know that your stat and mine are similar (based on the post diagnosis time period). My doc did mention (Again, based on one report) that my immune system (same as yours I suppose) is able to keep the virus to a lower level somehow and more likely it has been doing that for years. If that’s true, we still need to figure out the trend for CD4%, CD4 counts etc. However, in your case, you probably had other med stats prior to that 'similar post- diagnosis period' so you are able to figure out the trends/what’s going on or at least get a clear picture of your health/stat. I agree when you say to let expert make decisions. Well, on this issue, experts themselves are divided. The experts on this side would agree that based on my numbers, I may be able to wait a bit and I am hoping to have that luxury. Besides, to make a huge decision like this based on one single report, anyone would find it harder to call it an "informed decision”. On the side note, I hope to speak with you as I am interested to know about your trends, numbers, etc. since we do have some similarity with med stat.

To me, knowing trends is huge and that’s the only way one could get a clear picture of one’s health. AGAIN THIS IS NOT ABOUT COMMITMENT ISSUES, THIS IS ABOUT HAVING ONLY ONE SINGLE MED STAT WHICH IS NOT INDICATING ANY THRESHOLD. (My apology, caps are not intended to shout or to be rude rather used for clarity). If I were able to post this one earlier, may be Leatherman would not have post his comments on ‘commitment issues’ :)
« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 05:15:28 PM by Since2005 »

Offline Since2005

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #103 on: September 01, 2011, 02:49:46 PM »
Deleted. Duplicate
« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 03:02:20 PM by Since2005 »

Offline thunter34

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #104 on: September 01, 2011, 03:04:46 PM »
In some ways, part of me is thankful that the shit had already hit the fan with me and my AIDS-iness and the timing of meds was never in question.

I was then able to spare myself and everyone else from becoming yet another one of those  HIV queens who hem and haw, investigate, correlate, ruminate, mentally masturbate and in general abdicate actually dealing with their health until either AIDS puts them in the ground or those around them start day dreaming of doing it themselves.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline mecch

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #105 on: September 01, 2011, 04:52:19 PM »
Since, I am glad you are moving forward dealing with things.
There's obviously no panic about starting med.

Just note in this thread and in your PM, your rationale for waiting is long winded and "me me me" - and you couldn't even put into words the rationale the Doc gave for wanting you to start.  Only able to repeat the good news he gave you that the damage isn't catastrophic because your viral load is OK.  Please don't mistake low viral load with being an elite controller.  Your body fights the virus well to keep it at that level but make no mistake your body is fighting 24/7.
 
So in the coming months get another opinion from another doc, directly to your face, and digest the professional advice from 2 people.    I do predict you'll be now moving faster on not ruminating about HIV and HAART.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline buginme2

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #106 on: September 01, 2011, 07:26:50 PM »
  Please don't mistake low viral load with being an elite controller. 
 


Since, Please tell us you are not holding out hope for being an elite controller. 

I don't understand this "I need to be ready to take medication" mindset that persists on these forums.  Much of the time it is spoken by those who happily pop their pills each and every night without the slightest issue. Maybe if those who are on medication would speak truthfully about how they got used to it very quickly, or became ready once they started, those not on meds yet wouldnt be so freaked out.
Don't be fancy, just get dancey

Offline Since2005

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #107 on: September 01, 2011, 08:03:22 PM »
….you couldn't even put into words the rationale the Doc gave for wanting you to start.
Same rationale that thousands of other Docs have previously stated to others to support of starting meds as early as after the first med stats regardless of the stable numbers even if it is contradictory with stated guidelines without observing and following the trends of the HIV status. Hope, you got the points on the rationale...

So in the coming months get another opinion from another doc, directly to your face, and digest the professional advice from 2 people.
I thought I did like my doctor so I will try to stay with him for now and don’t worry, there are still Docs around who supports staying off meds if its possible (by following the monitoring concepts) like Ann, space , Nestor (He is in the States and I can't think of any others right this second) who have not been on meds yet infected with HIV a while ago. I may (or may not) switch to similar kind of Doc like them to meet your requirements of ‘getting professional advice’.  ;)

Please don't mistake low viral load with being an elite controller.
No, I don’t qualify to be an Elite Controller but I am hoping to be a LTSP given my current numbers stay steady and it will be 7 years in Jan/Feb next year since I became Poz. So, I may qualify. If I start the meds now, I will never know. I want to give myself that chance.. hey you never know..

I do predict you'll be now moving faster on not ruminating about HIV and HAART.
Thanks.  I have already discussed with my Doc and he agreed that we would wait to see what happens in next lab report only after I stated my concerns and he listened. We will not call that as ruminating HIV and HAART. Rather lets say 'Monitor your health/HIV'
With CD4 over 500 and VL <3k, as I said “ No way No how”. Not until I get at least another 2 lab works done given my second lab will come consistent and Doc agreed to that as it depends on the result. Again, the key word “monitoring regularly “. I will go for 3rd lab result if the 2nd lab is not too bad (my limit for CD4 is <350, given the VL is not too high, again, I would need discuss with the Doc, then I will go for another lab and another in three months if it allows, goal is to observe a trend to get a clear picture and you can only do that by keep monitoring..  ;D

Here is what I said earlier and that's where I stand
My motto is “Keep monitoring your health regularly and wait to see the trend in your med stats before you decide on the medications".
Enough said. I believe it's very clear to all where I stand with my approach.
I deeply appreciate everyone’s input including you Mecch. However, I would not want to turn this thread  to “ When to start meds thread” as I am not seeking advice on that piece. Everyone is welcome to express his or her opinions and inputs. As we always learn from each other or at least learn to respect the differences. What I don’t want to do is keep going back and forth. I know where you stand and you know where I stand. If necessary, I, may be, you can open another thread to state your concerns for others. I will also feel free to voice my opinion on starting meds may be without calling others view  as 'dumb'.  Having said that I clearly want to state as I have done that almost in every thread that I appreciate you and others concerns, kind supports, continuous encouragements which I and I am sure others value tremendously.

P.S. - @Buginme – With due respect, please read the entire thread before you chime in. I usually follow that etiquette just to voice opinions fairly. Do you? Well then you would have not questioned on commitment issues as what you asked/stated has already been answered!!
« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 08:05:36 PM by Since2005 »

Offline Joe K

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #108 on: September 01, 2011, 08:05:38 PM »
I don't understand this "I need to be ready to take medication" mindset that persists on these forums.  Much of the time it is spoken by those who happily pop their pills each and every night without the slightest issue. Maybe if those who are on medication would speak truthfully about how they got used to it very quickly, or became ready once they started, those not on meds yet wouldnt be so freaked out.

Maybe we would if anybody would actually listen.  Frankly I don't understand this entire thread, nor the OP.  All I read are excuses for not monitoring his health and then incessant whining about how he takes care of his health and will only consider meds after having trends, yada, yada, yada.  I call bullshit.  Starting meds can be really easy, assuming you don't want to die from AIDS.  Yes it really is that simple.  People think that HIV is just no big deal and they are wrong, but they don't want to hear that, because that may upset them.

Guess what, you have a disease that if left untreated, will kill you.  So you need to decide if you would rather live or die and act accordingly.  HIV is not a spectator sport and to assume that even if your health seriously declines, that the meds will save you, is the utmost in stupidity.  My eyes glaze over in threads like these, because far too many people are worried about hurting the OPs feelings.

It really is simple, if you want to live with HIV, you must take control and that involves many areas of your life.  If you want to live, you have to stop being afraid of your own shadow or the views of people, who are not you, nor do they have HIV.  If you allow others, or the fear of what others think of you, to influence your ability to successfully treat your HIV, then you have no one to blame but yourself.

Seriously, you were adult enough to become poz and assuming you want to live, get a grip and start paying attention.

Offline buginme2

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #109 on: September 01, 2011, 08:32:57 PM »
.  You have some major denialist issues. 

@Killfoile.  People do listen.  When I started on meds I was nervous (like everyone else was).  But many people on this forums told me not to worry and explained how I would feel and what to expect.  I have to say what people told me was 99% positive about taking meds and it turned out ALL TO BE TRUE.  I'm glad people didnt tell me to wait or question whether I was ready or not. After all who wants to take meds for a lifetime.  If you asked me was I ready? The answer would have been NO.  But I did it anyway and IT WASNT HARD.

People come to this forum for support and reassurance that they will be okay.  Taking meds is a nervous period.  It drives me crazy that when people come here just before starting meds that people here ask them if they are ready and to "wait and see".  They arent taking the SAT's they are taking a pill.  Its not that hard.

OK my ranting is over. Peace out aids peeps.
Don't be fancy, just get dancey

Offline Joe K

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #110 on: September 01, 2011, 08:40:23 PM »
.  You have some major denialist issues. 

@Killfoile.  People do listen.  When I started on meds I was nervous (like everyone else was).  But many people on this forums told me not to worry and explained how I would feel and what to expect.  I have to say what people told me was 99% positive about taking meds and it turned out ALL TO BE TRUE.  I'm glad people didnt tell me to wait or question whether I was ready or not. After all who wants to take meds for a lifetime.  If you asked me was I ready? The answer would have been NO.  But I did it anyway and IT WASNT HARD.

People come to this forum for support and reassurance that they will be okay.  Taking meds is a nervous period.  It drives me crazy that when people come here just before starting meds that people here ask them if they are ready and to "wait and see".  They arent taking the SAT's they are taking a pill.  Its not that hard.

OK my ranting is over. Peace out aids peeps.

Bug,

Please explain the statement in bold.

Offline buginme2

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #111 on: September 01, 2011, 08:48:39 PM »
Bug,

Please explain the statement in bold.

Sorry, that was directed at the OP.  I say that because since his first post he has made excuse after excuse about why he hadnt been to a doctor in 5+ years after testing positive (cultural issues, gay issues, economic issues, etc) and now his statements about being an elite controller or LTNP and the statement he made about finding a doctor that will wait until his CD4 drops to below 350 to start meds (good luck with that in the US). 
Don't be fancy, just get dancey

Offline mecch

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #112 on: September 01, 2011, 08:52:15 PM »
Since,

Just want to congratulate you again on the progress you made. Reading again your first post in this thread, it was less than a month ago - and you are now definitely much more in control.  And also more aware, open, and knowledgeable.  

That first post threw out all sorts of alarm bells for some of us, so we were concerned that you start the process.



“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #113 on: September 01, 2011, 08:53:44 PM »
He never said he was an elite controller, Since.
He said the doctor told him he "controls" HIV.  I was just checking to make sure he knows the difference and he does!
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline buginme2

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #114 on: September 01, 2011, 08:57:14 PM »
Sorry Mech, I thought I read in reply 107 that he was hoping he was a LTNP.  Regardless. He has come a long way I suppose. 

The voyage of a thousand miles begins with one step.
Don't be fancy, just get dancey

Offline Since2005

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #115 on: September 01, 2011, 10:14:49 PM »
Maybe we would if anybody would actually listen.  Frankly I don't understand this entire thread, nor the OP.  All I read are excuses for not monitoring his health and then incessant whining about how he takes care of his health and will only consider meds after having trends, yada, yada, yada.  I call bullshit.  Starting meds can be really easy, assuming you don't want to die from AIDS.  Yes it really is that simple.  People think that HIV is just no big deal and they are wrong, but they don't want to hear that, because that may upset them.

Guess what, you have a disease that if left untreated, will kill you.  So you need to decide if you would rather live or die and act accordingly.  HIV is not a spectator sport and to assume that even if your health seriously declines, that the meds will save you, is the utmost in stupidity.  My eyes glaze over in threads like these, because far too many people are worried about hurting the OPs feelings.

It really is simple, if you want to live with HIV, you must take control and that involves many areas of your life.  If you want to live, you have to stop being afraid of your own shadow or the views of people, who are not you, nor do they have HIV.  If you allow others, or the fear of what others think of you, to influence your ability to successfully treat your HIV, then you have no one to blame but yourself.

Seriously, you were adult enough to become poz and assuming you want to live, get a grip and start paying attention.

--- I have no idea what are you talking about here. I don't find any relation to what we are currently discussing. Frankly, I don’t care to know. As I have noticed your tone using words like “I call bullshit “,"stupidity" , and similar types of attitudes in the past in some other threads with certain forum member and others. Honestly, I  am not a big fan of these attitudes and won’t allow the repeats. So, May be I was wrong when I said we can always learn from each others, may be its better to stay away sometimes and avoid. I ALWAYS try to find the 'caring mind' underneath but you did upset me tonight with your continued degrading comments towards others. None of your comments will be replied mostly just to avoid unnecessary conflicts that will not serve any purpose for me. So, here is what I am gonna do I will ‘leave you’ and stop writing things that I will regret later.



Edited to reflect the quoted comments and use 'bold' words
« Last Edit: September 02, 2011, 09:06:53 PM by Since2005 »

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #116 on: September 01, 2011, 10:22:24 PM »
--- I have no idea what are you talking about here. I don't find any relation to what we are currently discussing. Frankly, I don’t care to know. As I have noticed your tone “I call bullshit “ types of attitudes in the past in some other threads with certain forum member and others. Honestly, I  am not a big fan of these attitudes and won’t allow the repeats. So, May be I was wrong when I said we can always learn from each others, may be its better to stay away sometimes and avoid. I ALWAYS try to find the 'caring mind' underneath but you did upset me tonight with your continued degrading comments towards others. None of your comments will be replied mostly just to avoid unnecessary conflicts that will not serve any purpose for me. So, here is what I am gonna do I will ‘leave you’ and stop writing things that I will regret later.


September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline Joe K

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #117 on: September 01, 2011, 10:30:11 PM »
--- I have no idea what are you talking about here. I don't find any relation to what we are currently discussing. Frankly, I don’t care to know. As I have noticed your tone “I call bullshit “ types of attitudes in the past in some other threads with certain forum member and others. Honestly, I  am not a big fan of these attitudes and won’t allow the repeats. So, May be I was wrong when I said we can always learn from each others, may be its better to stay away sometimes and avoid. I ALWAYS try to find the 'caring mind' underneath but you did upset me tonight with your continued degrading comments towards others. None of your comments will be replied mostly just to avoid unnecessary conflicts that will not serve any purpose for me. So, here is what I am gonna do I will ‘leave you’ and stop writing things that I will regret later.

First of all, do not accuse me of doing things that I have not done.  I want quotes from me, where I have ever degraded a poster, as opposed to speaking the unvarnished truth.  I don't like it when posters lie about how I reply to people and I want to see proof of your statements.

I'm sorry coming to terms with being poz is so hard for you, but you have had 7 years and you are still not monitoring your health.  I get frustrated when people refuse to understand the severity of having HIV and then post a million excuses for why they are not treating their disease.  You seem to be confusing the truth, with the way I am saying it, but sometimes people need to hear it real short and blunt.

I've lived with HIV for 26 years and the first thing that every pozzie must do, is to own their own infection. That means doing whatever is necessary to protect your health and if that means extra counseling or whatever, that's fine, but you have to do something.  Just be honest, you don't want simple information, you want your hand held and again, that is fine, but don't try to act like that is not what you are seeking.

You seem to believe that the world is so tough, because you are poz and gay and maybe that is true.  Yet in the end, you are responsible for your own life.  So if you don't like the way I say something, or disagree with what I am saying, fine.  However, don't you dare infer that I lack any compassion or that I treat posters unfairly, unless you have the quotes to back it up.

Offline thunter34

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #118 on: September 01, 2011, 10:36:55 PM »
I'm not trying to be cruel, but I can't help but think a little case of thrush or something would actually do the OP a world of good.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline thunter34

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #119 on: September 01, 2011, 10:44:42 PM »
This site is hanging up on me again, so that ended up posting before I was done with it, so...

I think mecch is right to applaud you for making the step that you (OP) have.  I mean, relative to the previous six years, this last month has been a good stride forward.

That said, I am still concerned that you think you may have more time to play with than you do.  564 ain't bad, but it all that super duper high either.  And hon, when you're like me and having to climb back from nearly no immune system left, it takes a long time to climb back up to just that.

I'm just not all that sure you're not gonna analyze yourself into a coffin, based on your previous track record.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Since2005

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #120 on: September 02, 2011, 02:05:11 AM »
Sorry, that was directed at the OP.  I say that because since his first post he has made excuse after excuse about why he hadnt been to a doctor in 5+ years after testing positive (cultural issues, gay issues, economic issues, etc) and now his statements about being an elite controller or LTNP and the statement he made about finding a doctor that will wait until his CD4 drops to below 350 to start meds (good luck with that in the US). 
When did I ever say any of that? Please re-read again ( or look at the comment below). I said I like my current doc and will use 350 as threshold line (after consulting with Doc), which is totally different when you say " the statement he made about finding a doctor that will wait until his CD4 drops to below 350 to start meds". What has gotten into you? I have expected better than these really. I know you personally from day one who never understood my problems which are very personal things that I have decided to share with rest of the world, but later I thought you at least tried to get it you yet still think they are "excuses" not "issues". Excuses of what? I have to say if you must know you have disappointed me.

Sorry Mech, I thought I read in reply 107 that he was hoping he was a LTNP. 
It's LTSP in reply 107. You do know the differences, don't you?

Buginme, I have cared to write these to you as I thought you have at least tried to be supportive in your own way.  But tonight, you have made inconsistent remarks which left me to wonder 'the toast that you have made last night was that real especially after you thought my problems were actually excuses! I am sorry to say that may be its time to take back the toasts, I now know you actually did not get it!

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #121 on: September 02, 2011, 04:14:47 AM »
No, I don’t qualify to be an Elite Controller but I am hoping to be a LTSP given my current numbers stay steady and it will be 7 years in Jan/Feb next year since I became Poz. So, I may qualify. If I start the meds now, I will never know. I want to give myself that chance.. hey you never know..


LTSP, LTNP etc etc are just 'labels' and can often be misleading. Even if one is deemed to fall under one of these categories, it doesn't mean much if your numbers suddenly start to tank- and that does happen to some of these so called LTSPs, LTNPs. There is also the downside that one is led into a false sense of security, which is never a good thing.

While I agree with you that monitoring your lab numbers (without exception) and starting meds in accordance with your doctor's advice, the guidelines in your area, and  how you feel - in that order, is perfectly alright (in my opinion); I also think that you have got some of the responses you have because the members here can easily differentiate between someone who is looking to run away from the problem rather than face it- and sorry to say, but your track record isn’t exactly very convincing.

It's great that you've gone to the doc and got your lab results Since (very commendable), but there is a very thin line between holding out hope and being evasive of the situation and when you say things like "I may qualify to be a LTSP"- going by your 'history of denial' it's not easy to discern which camp you belong in.

Best.

Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline mecch

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #122 on: September 02, 2011, 07:35:27 AM »
(Kill,  the accomplishment of the month is that Since went from Aug 2, maybe suicidal, quite in denial, to having entered the medical system.  I think you misread the thread.  As of now he is monitoring his HIV.   Onwards, and hopefully upwards!)
 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Joe K

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #123 on: September 02, 2011, 10:52:50 AM »
(Kill,  the accomplishment of the month is that Since went from Aug 2, maybe suicidal, quite in denial, to having entered the medical system.  I think you misread the thread.  As of now he is monitoring his HIV.   Onwards, and hopefully upwards!)

I didn't misread the thread, because I actually read it twice to make sure I understood what was happening.  That's why I replied as I did.  I hope you and others are correct and the OP will monitor his health from here on out, but I have very strong doubts about that happening.

Offline Since2005

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #124 on: September 03, 2011, 01:24:38 AM »
Okay, I am in a better mood today. Sorry if I was getting frustrated with some of you last night. I think I was getting tired of having to explain everyone that I am in the game now and yes I am going to take care of myself and not everyone was believing me or so that's what I thought. Hey, I could assure you that I am and I will take care of myself. Believe it, damn it!!

I could understand some of you may be were concerned about me not seeking out medical treatments for years for obvious reasons but the approach that I am taking is actually a standard practice. Look at this thread http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=33382.0 where members talked about when to start meds (guess what it is 350-500 based on the current US guideline). Again, no one is advocating here, it's an individual choice!

@ Meech – Thanks for your comments and genuinely caring! It means a lot! I didn't get when you said 'more knowledgeable' may be true of course I learned more within a month. It may seem ignorant as I didn't go to doc but I actually have been learning about HIV ever since I got diagnosed. I did not have doc to go to ask questions, so I have been educating myself about HIV from different sources. I think I spent hours and hours doing that and it actually was therapeutic for me for a while (hard to believe right?. since I still did not go to doc..). I am still learning form everyone here….

@Space – Nothing wrong with being hopeful. Don't we all hope that there would be a cure for AIDS in our lifetime? Being hopeful is a good thing as long as it's realistic and one is not fully dependent on the concepts or whatever they are hoping for….

@Tunter – Not sure about few things that you said but I wanted to acknowledge your concerns, thanks!

@Killfoile - I thought I was going to ignore your comments but I thought it would be a good time to do may be because you are not even aware of this. As Mecch pointed out to you that you misread my thread...

..you have had 7 years and you are still not monitoring your health.  I get frustrated ..
But I am monitoring my health. I am going to doc, and started the medical process and have done my first lab works and set my next visit with my doc to follow up...see ;)
Regardless of the frustration level, I would refrain myself from using words like 'bullshit', 'stupidity' etc. I personally don't find these words to be helpful in a forum conversation. But, I don't want to dwell on this. Let us move forward.
Having said that, I do believe everyone in this Forum including yourself is helpful and supportive. It is inspiring to see you and others who have been dealing with this disease for a very long time and it gives us hope also. We, all could learn from you. I wish you the best!

So, I think it's a good time to close the thread while its good and dandy cuz you know it could totally turn really ugly at any time (j/k.. is it  ;)). I like happy ending :)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 03:57:53 PM by Since2005 »

Offline wolfter

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #125 on: September 03, 2011, 12:58:52 PM »
Curious, how do you monitor your health if you don't have labs done for 7 years?  Visual observation?
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline Since2005

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #126 on: September 03, 2011, 01:15:48 PM »
Wolfer.. No..not for last 7 years...

I am now..and I  will going forward..

Offline New Poz Guy

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #127 on: September 03, 2011, 11:46:19 PM »
So much drama in this thread. The way I see it - Since lucked out with low counts after waiting 6+ years of even checking his numbers after Dx. I too applaud Since's good fortune. Unfortunately, and I hope I'm wrong, this is all the justification one needs to blow off monitoring.
Again, hopefully that won't be the case, but Since is a big boy and can make decisions he needs to for himself. Simple blood work quarterly seems a small price to pay for lackadaisical (IMO) behavior of not testing for so long.
You have lucked out, my friend. Please continue to monitor your numbers.
I was diagnosed in late July and decided at 438 CD4 and 90K plus VL - I wasn't going to let my body do this on it's own. I started Atripla 8/13 and haven't looked back. I still can't believe my good fortune at only needing to remember one pill at 10 PM nightly. Never had one dream or side effect and can't wait for first labs since beginning.
Everyone needs to do this thing at their own pace.
Diagnosed 7/27/11
Labs taken 8/2/11
Results 8/12/11 - CD4 428 18.6% VL - 96,939
Began Atripla 8/13/11
Labs taken 9/8/11
Results 9/13/11 - CD4 629 24.2% VL - 930 !!

Offline socalpoz

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #128 on: September 05, 2011, 08:59:13 AM »
I don't know if this has been mentioned, since this is such a long post. But although great news on the labs, I am curious if you are getting labs done monthly. When I was first diagnosed it was recommended to see the trend and then we backed off to every three months.Since it has been so many years since Dx and labs, your numbers are all about the trends and I lab can very great from another due to additional factors, i.e. stress, diet, time of day you had the draw etc.

Good luck and keep posting, continue working on you and the acceptance of the disease and being gay!
Diagnosed Jan. 22, 2011
feb/11 cd4 547, cd4% 37, vl 527
mar/11 cd4 650, cd4% 37, vl 97
may/11 cd4 698, cd4% 37, vl 303
jul/11 cd4 744, cd4% 39, vl 239
aug/12 cd4 675, cd4% 39, Vl 42
Jun/13 cd4 594, cd4% 38, Vl 1860
Jul/3/13 started Stribild
Aug/13 cd4 758 cd4% 43, vl ??

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #129 on: September 05, 2011, 11:22:03 AM »
I don't know if this has been mentioned, since this is such a long post. But although great news on the labs, I am curious if you are getting labs done monthly.

The OP hadn't had any lab work done --at all-- since 2005.  Probably 80 to 90% of the replies in this thread address that issue.  
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline Basquo

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #130 on: September 05, 2011, 11:37:03 AM »

The OP hadn't had any lab work done --at all-- since 2005.  Probably 80 to 90% of the replies in this thread address that issue. 

Rev, he said he did and posted the numbers in reply #89.

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #131 on: September 05, 2011, 11:41:49 AM »
Rev, he said he did and posted the numbers in reply #89.


I think Rev said "hadn't" as in "not prior to starting this thread" not "hasn't"

But, this post is really only an excuse to say, what is all that going on in the Rev's avatar!!!??   ;D 
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline Basquo

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #132 on: September 05, 2011, 11:59:18 AM »
Oh, OK...got it. Thanks.

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #133 on: September 05, 2011, 12:25:18 PM »
Rev, he said he did and posted the numbers in reply #89.


Oh, I know.  I even responded to him somewhere around 91 or 92.  But that was the very first time since his diagnosis five+ years ago.  He just hadn't checked them regularly, which is what  (I thought) socalpoz was asking.

Alls I know is that I want this young man to continue checking his numbers going forward.


But, this post is really only an excuse to say, what is all that going on in the Rev's avatar!!!??   ;D  

Like?  ;D. You know me and my kooky avz
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #134 on: September 05, 2011, 12:36:09 PM »
Like?  ;D. You know me and my kooky avz

Can't look away  :)
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline Since2005

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #135 on: September 06, 2011, 06:24:12 PM »
I read my very first introductory comment of the thread and all of the other comments again. Wow, I was amazed to see what a responsive and supportive audience you are. I have had a very tough time to deal with my HIV, some say ignoring the HIV and I agree. I just avoided a very catastrophic situation. I am very fortunate with my current health stat. The situation could have been way worst. I have dealt with a terrible situation and the severity of that I did not realize at that time. I am so glad that I have move past that. I feel very fortunate comparing to others. I am independent, I am healthy, I am young, and I am educated with good prospects of starting a career. I am getting my focus back on these. I have my whole life ahead of me.

I will keep on monitoring my health. With my doctor’s recommendations, I will enter into HAART, when it's necessary. I will take care of myself, form some friendship here and in my regular life, support system, and focus on my career and work on towards full acceptance for being who I am.

I am sentimental with this thread as I feel like I am leaving some of my memory behind. This will remind me as a milestone of my life related to HIV. I would like to identify this as ‘the real beginning’ to deal with HIV. I will always cherish you all who have helped me to get through the tough time. This is my last comment on this thread. From here, I am taking the good stuff and good memory with me. Thanks for helping me learn, accept, and move forward. Thanks for all of your support. Chao!
« Last Edit: September 06, 2011, 10:16:13 PM by Since2005 »

Offline Nestor

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #136 on: September 12, 2011, 06:25:26 PM »

Hey Since,

Congratulations, three times! 

First, because you finally overcame whatever it was that prevented you from getting labs done for so many years.  I know a little of what that must have been like.  For a year and half after getting HIV--and I knew I probably had HIV, given the clear sero-conversion symptoms I experienced only two months after having unsafe sex--I didn't get tested, and lived with uncertainty about the state of my health.  That wasn't a purely emotional problem on my part: I was living in a country where getting tested might have meant the risk of deportation.  Still, I know what it was like finally to find out how many t-cells I had, etc., after a year and a half in the dark.  That you managed to go for five or six years in that state is astounding to me, and I'm sure you feel now as if a great weight has been taken off your mind.  There must have been nights when you felt bad and wondered whether perhaps you had already gone down to 100 T-cells or less; now that is all behind you. 

Secondly, congratulations because your health, as far as we can see from this one test, is excellent.  Of course as you say yourself it's about trends over time and we'll know more after two or three more sets of test results come in, but for someone in his fifth or sixth year of HIV this sounds fantastic.  You have the right to do a bit more partying now to celebrate. 

Thirdly, because you seem to have a very sensible attitude towards the decision to start meds.  I would never start based on one single result unless the numbers were something truly outrageous or I were clearly ill.  Now you can read, think, talk, and make your own decisions about when to start treatment, and you can do so in calm confidence--something you could not have done two weeks ago, when the panicked voice shouting "Oh my God, what if I already have only ten t-cells" must have been dinning in your ears. 

Here's to your next set of even better lab results!

Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline Theyer

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Re: Asymptomatic to Symptomatic
« Reply #137 on: September 13, 2011, 01:40:30 PM »
 since its was a relief when that Doc visit occurred.
I view my posts as a form off diary.

t
"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ."  Tony Benn

 


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