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Author Topic: Testing Question  (Read 27796 times)

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1spclka

  • Guest
Testing Question
« on: September 15, 2006, 03:00:55 PM »
In the first week of August I found out that my boyfriend of almost 2 years had been unfaithful for quite sometime.  The last time we had unprotected sex was July 24th.  Since then I have had two HIV test's one at 11 days and then again at 40 days, both which have been negative.  What exactly is the window time frame for showing positive.. I am very worried about this as I haven't been feeling well at all for almost 7 weeks.. Just really worried.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Testing Question
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2006, 03:14:02 PM »
Have your conclusive test done at 13 weeks past you last unprotected sex.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Testing Question
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2006, 03:16:27 PM »
. . . . and read our Welcome Thread!!

MtD

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Testing Question
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2006, 03:21:03 PM »
Just so you know, not feeling well for 7 weeks is NOT a sign of HIV infection. And in fact neither the presence nor the absence of symptoms is ever the way to know about your HIV status. Only getting that test will give you that answer.

You may not be thinking about it now, but if you have intercourse again with your (ex)bf or whomoever, make sure the guy is always wearing a condom. No exceptions.

Good luck with your test result and keep us posted.

Cheers, 
Andy Velez

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2006, 03:27:55 PM »
Thank you for your answers.  Is a test at 6 weeks negative a pretty good sign though?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Testing Question
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2006, 03:34:10 PM »
It's a good sign but not conclusive.

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2006, 03:37:28 PM »
Thank you again! My Dr. is having me take the test again at 9 weeks and then 12.. so I will let you guys know!

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2006, 04:05:58 PM »
One last question.. I am really scared about this.. I have had many sympotms for 7 weeks, and I know you shouldn't go off symptoms, but what are the chances of being positive after 6 weeks negative? I am just very scared.  My 9 week test is next week.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Testing Question
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2006, 06:54:58 PM »
It's possible, but it would be VERY RARE.

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2006, 11:26:08 AM »
Thank you Rapid Rod for your advice.. If my test was at 39 days and not 42 is that a huge difference for the 6 week mark? I am going in on Wed for my 60 day test on Wed... I have been so sick to my stomach and stressed about this..  I have never been so scared in my life.

Offline Ann

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Re: Testing Question
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2006, 11:42:10 AM »
sp,

The vast majority of people who have actually been infected will seroconvert and test positive by six weeks, with the average time to seroconversion being only 22 days. It really is rather unlikely that your 39 day negative will change.

You don't mention whether or not your partner has tested positive himself. Just being unfaithful does not make one hiv positive - he might use condoms when he plays away and either way, he might yet be negative himself. You can't pass on what you don't have.

It sounds like you have been devastated by the news of your partner's unfaithfulness and the stress this has caused you could very well be causing you to feel ill. Symptoms or the lack of symptoms mean absolutely nothing when it comes to hiv - so try to relax and see if you don't start feeling better after a few days.

I'm fully expecting you to continue to test negative.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2006, 11:48:53 AM »
Hi Ann,

You are truly a blessing right now.. I am completely devastated by all this, and with your recent post I feel that I can settle down and try to relax.  Like i mentioned before my next text is Wed and if all goes well they will do a final test on Oct 18th.. I am so glad I found this site, you are wonderful..

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2006, 11:50:51 AM »
PS- I have no idea if he has tested.  He told me that he sometimes used condoms and sometimes not.. and that he didn't need to be tested..  I have never in my life been so scared, I am only 28 and trusted my life with someone else, that will never been done again.  Really, I can't thank you enough for the encouragement.. I really needed it..

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Testing Question
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2006, 12:00:51 PM »
Glad you have found the exchanges here to be helpful.

Happily, I expect you to continue to test negative with that negative you had at very close to 6 weeks. It's very uncommon to test positive after that unless there are some special circumstances such as IV drug use or a severely depleted immune system due to cancer treatment or such.

I don't know if you will be back with your bf or not. But please remember that no matter whom you are with you are the one who's responsible for your health. That means the best policy is to always insist on the guy wearing a condom for intercourse no matter how great he looks or how terrific a guy or whatever. Condoms are a must. Period.

Good luck on your test and keep us posted.

Cheers,
Andy Velez

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2006, 12:08:34 PM »
Hi Andy,

I am a clean and healthy 28 y/o women who has just had her whole world turned upside down.  With all your positive encouragement my day is already getting better.. And no we are not getting back together, I already moved out.. Really I can't thank you guys enough.. this website is such a wealth of knowledge.  You are a wonderful group of people, and believe me I am much more educated about this now..

Offline Ann

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Re: Testing Question
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2006, 12:53:03 PM »
sp,

I'm not sure what you mean by "clean" and healthy. I'm clean too - I just had a shower this morning. But I'm also hiv positive. Using clean to describe personal attributes (unless you mean bathing habits) is to imply that others are "dirty". I hope you get my drift?

If you haven't already, please make sure you have been screened for all the other STIs out there - all of them are MUCH more easily transmitted than hiv. Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

Please also check out the condom and lube links in my signature line and check out the links on the left hand side of either ot those pages for information on the female condom. They're great - they put the control over condom use into your hands.

Hang in there. You have every chance of continuing with negative test results.

Ann

PS - please tell your ex that there are far more heterosexuals in the world living with hiv than there are otherwise. Too many straight men think they don't have to worry about hiv and don't need testing. They're wrong, and plenty of them are dead wrong.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2006, 12:55:19 PM by Ann »
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2006, 01:22:52 PM »
I am so sorry I hope I didn't offend you.. I meant that I had been screened for everything else and all of those were ok..  Please accept my apology.   I would never mean to imply anything bad about anyone..

I will check out those links to. 

Really your help has done wonders for me.. I have been a basket base for almost 7 full weeks now.. And even though I have all this positive encourgement I am still sick to my stomach about my Wed test. 


Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2006, 02:29:12 PM »
sp,

I understand.

But sitting there at your computer for hours, reading this site, is not going to do your nerves any good. Turn your computer off, take a few deep breaths and go out and get some fresh air and exercise. Keep putting hiv information into your brain and you will not be able to think about anything else.

All you need to know right now is that you are more than likely to continue testing negative. The rest is all just extra, anxiety producing, unnecessary distraction. Turn the computer off.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2006, 02:32:27 PM »
WILL DO!!!!  Thank you !! Have a great day!!! Love, K

Offline godblessu

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  • Posts: 27
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2006, 05:29:45 PM »
Hi everybody I as rape on may4th this year , I have took every test of hiv out there from elisa and western bllot at my 12 weeks and took Hiv Rna at 8 week's and again at 13 weeks also took hiv nucleic acid test was neg at 13 weeks and 17 weeks . at 22 weeks also took elisa and hiv nucleic acid test was neg , I'm kind of scared am I out of the window thanks peace 

Offline godblessu

  • Member
  • Posts: 27
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2006, 05:31:22 PM »
It's possible, but it would be VERY RARE.
   Hi i took hiv elisa test and hiv nucleic acid test at 13 weeks and again at 17 weeks am I out of the window period thanks

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2006, 06:31:42 PM »
bless,

You need to start your own thread. Posting questions in someone else's thread is considered thread hijacking.

Please read through the Welcome Thread, take note of our Posting Guidelines and follow the links to the Lessons.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2006, 11:16:40 AM »
Hi everyone, today is my 58 day test and I am so scared to take it.  I know you all have said that I have a really good chance of it still being negative, but I have this gut feeling that won't go away that is saying otherwise.  I did calm down the last few days, but woke up today in a panic.. I still have a white tongue and I have read that's a sign of HIV..  Please keep me in your thoughts today, I showed know my results by Friday or Monday at the latest.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Testing Question
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2006, 12:06:40 PM »
Fortunately feelings aren't facts so white tongue or no, the only "sign" that is to be believed about HIV status is a test. Happily you have done that and now you have a few days to wait for your result.

If your tongue is troubing you then discuss it with your doctor. It is not in any way an HIV-specific occurence.

Stay productively busy and the waiting time will pass more quickly than you may imagine at this moment.

Good luck.

Cheers,
Andy Velez

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2006, 12:12:51 PM »
Thank you Andy.. This site has helped me out more than you can ever imagine.  And really I thank you for the education on this subject too.. I will let you guys know my results when I get them.. Thank you again from the bottom of my heart.. this has truly been a difficult time and writing here has made such a huge impact.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Testing Question
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2006, 12:22:01 PM »
Good. I'm glad you found this site to be of help to you. That's why we are here.

Cheers,
Andy Velez

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2006, 11:58:36 AM »
Ok, this has to be the longest waiting period ever!! I wasn't even this nervous or scared the first two times I took this.  Why am I so afraid its going to change, even after you guys have explained the good chances it won't?  I am telling you.. for those of you that read this post ALWAYS USE A CONDOM... the fear and guilt will eat at you for not using one..

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2006, 04:13:18 PM »
Anna, is there really a good chance that my test will remain positive... I have tried to keep myself busy and worry so much.. but I am on the verge of a breakdown.. I have been through so much and I am just so stressed about this especially with the test not being at six weeks and just shy of it.

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2006, 04:13:40 PM »
oop, sorry I meant to type Ann...

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2006, 04:19:27 PM »
Sp,

You are more than likely to continue testing NEGATIVE.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2006, 04:29:35 PM »
Ann,

Thank you for the encourgement.. I needed that today.. My results aren't back yet and have to wait now until Mon or Tues..

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2006, 05:53:02 PM »
The main reason for me being so concerned is about 10 days after my last unprotected sex with my Ex-Boyfriend, my legs and arms ached for almost a week, and in that time frame my tongue became white, I still have lose/soft stool, I ran a low-grade fever during the day of 99.2-99.5, but it always went to normal at night for almost 3 weeks and was completely exhausted and I had/have  appetite.. This all lasted 6 weeks, however, I still have a white tongue (there isn't a coat on it, just white-ish) and my stool hasn't been the same..  That's why this test at less than 6 weeks is scaring me now.. and waiting for this new result is heartbreaking..

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #32 on: September 22, 2006, 06:12:25 PM »
I just got my 60 day results.. and they were NEGATIVE!!!!  Thank you Ann and Andy for all your support.. my 3 month confirming test is October 18th, so I will up date you guys then !!!!

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2006, 02:22:52 PM »
My next test is going to be at 86 days past exposure, is this far enough for the conclusive testing?? And is my 58 day test still a good indication of my negative status??? Still worried...

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Testing Question
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2006, 03:18:09 PM »
Yes, the 86 days will be conclusive. And I expect you to test negative again.

Get busy and the remaining waiting time will pass more quickly than you can imagine right now.
Andy Velez

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2006, 04:14:04 PM »
Andy or Ann, what are the chances of my test turning positive after my 58 day test??? Is it common for people to show positive in the 8-12 week mark?

Offline Ann

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Re: Testing Question
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2006, 05:16:10 PM »
sp,

You've already been told that most people who have actually been infected will test positive by SIX weeks. Go read your thread again. Our answers are not going to change.

It's highly unlikely that your test results will change. You're more likely to win a ten million dollar prize in the lottery with a ticket you found lying in the gutter. OK?

Now get off the internet and go do something interesting.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2006, 05:34:11 PM »
Ok, thank you for all your words and encourgement.. I will let you know about my 86 day test next month.. take care, K

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #38 on: October 03, 2006, 11:08:45 AM »
Ok guys, I went to my Dr. yesterday for a follow-up appt.. and he advised me that I should be prepared for my next test to be positive  ???.. He said that people get white tongue during ARS, and most of the symptoms I complained about could have been ARS...   I am so scared now .... why would he tell me all of this.. I thought I was pretty ok with my 8 week test..  He wants me to take another test tomorrow that would be 10 weeks and then again at 12...  PLease help I am so beside myself right now.

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
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Re: Testing Question
« Reply #39 on: October 03, 2006, 12:24:46 PM »
1,

I'm going to be blunt. Your doctor is ignorant when it comes to hiv. A white tongue is no more a sign of primary hiv infection than a sudden desire to dye your hair purple. Furthermore, the vast majority of people who have actually been infected will seroconvert and test positive by six weeks. Your eight week negative is not likely to change.

The only thing that might want to change is your doctor. If he can'b be bothered to keep up to date on hiv, goodness knows what else he gets wrong. Find a new doc.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #40 on: October 03, 2006, 12:30:25 PM »
Ann,  if my test results come back negative at 10 weeks do I need to take it again... I almost passed out when he told me that.. I was really feeling good about my 8 week negative.. He has totally scared me

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #41 on: October 03, 2006, 01:48:44 PM »
I am so scared and freaking out right now...  How can that be possible...  I have to take another one tomorrow, and wait to see if my doctor is right or not.. and then put myself through this torture again..  Oh yeah, he told me that most be people show positive between 6-8 weeks, and because mine was 8 weeks and two days that is why he is expecting it to be positive.. especially because of my white tongue and my irregular bowls.. well heck he now has given me diaherra..

Offline Ann

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  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2006, 02:30:08 PM »
1,

You really don't need that ten week test, but now that your doctor has scared the brown stuff out of you, I suppose it's somewhat unavoidable. We do stick by the three month conclusive rule here, so you have two more negative results to look forward to.

You might want to tell your doctor to get up to speed with the most recent hiv diagnosis practice, because he's living in the dark ages where that is concerned and it's just not good enough. White tongue and irregular bowels are not diagnostic indicators. Why not print this thread out and take it with you when you see him again? There is also a printable version of both the lessons linked to in the Welcome thread. This guy seriously needs to be brought, kicking and screaming if need be, into the 21st century.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2006, 02:47:36 PM »
Ann,

Thank you for all your support.  I will print this thread out and show it to him.  I really am going to try and avoid tomorrow's test, and see if I can't just do the 86 day test.  I am so sorry to have bombarded you with all these fears, questions and my crazy worries.. This is not something to take lightly and I have 100% learned my lesson.. I will never again have sex without a condom...unless I am married, and even then you really don't know.. I will update you all upon my reciept of my results either Friday afternoon or Monday..  Thank you again.. and God Bless.

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2006, 06:13:20 PM »
Well, my doctor changed my appt to today and I took my thread with me.  He told me that the information was wrong, and that most people won't show positive until after 8 weeks.  And that I  probably didn't seroconvert s/p? until later.. I am so confused now that I don't know what to think... I told him that I wanted to wait until the 18th to take my 86 day test and he told me no, that I needed to do it now so we can catch it early...  I am on the verge of a mental breakdown.. 

Offline Ann

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Re: Testing Question
« Reply #45 on: October 04, 2006, 05:16:52 AM »
1,

I hope that when your doctor's comments are proven to be nothing more than scare-mongering, you will find yourself a new one.

I'm still expecting you to continue testing negative.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

1spclka

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Re: Testing Question
« Reply #46 on: October 04, 2006, 10:51:05 AM »
Thanks Ann, I take the test at noon today.. and will get the results back hopefully late Friday or Monday...  I cried myself to sleep last night thinking about all of this.. I keep holding on to what you, Andy and Rapid Rod have said.. and praying that this will all work out.. thank you again for your support.. this forum and website is a wonderful place to talk, and most definetly educating.  I will advise you guys of my results when I get them..

1spclka

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Re: Testing Question
« Reply #47 on: October 04, 2006, 11:08:39 AM »
Oh yeah, and while I was at the Dr. yesterday he diagnosed my tongue as "Hairy Tongue" ... he said that was one of the first signs of HIV and only peopl HIV+ get this disease.. I was up all night scared to death.. I am so scared ... I started think about when all this started and all my "symptoms"   6 days after we had unprotected sex, my arms and legs ached for almost a week, I had no appetite, totally exhausted, loose/soft stool, and my tongue and a fever anywhere from  99.2-99.5..  However, at the same time my Dr. had taken me of the birth control pill after being on it 10 years, maybe part of that was hormones as I would cry at a drop of a dime.. so he wanted to treat me for depression, he had me on Celexa, Trazadone and Prozac.. these symptoms all started July 30 and continued until early September... The last few days I have had the body aches back..  I am so sick to my stomach.. If my 10 week is negative.. is there a good chance my 86 day test will be negative too??

Offline Ann

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Re: Testing Question
« Reply #48 on: October 04, 2006, 01:18:34 PM »
1,

My jaw drops when I read the things your doctor says to you. If I were you, I'd get another doctor asap. I assume what he meant by "hairy tounge" is Oral Hairy Leukoplakia and it cannot be diagnosed just by looking at it - you need a biopsy for a definite diagnosis. It really sounds to me like he is trying to frighten the life out of you. In all honesty, it sounds to me like he doesn't approve of you having a sex life.

You tested negative at over eight weeks. I seriously cannot see that changing. If this doctor refuses to educate himself on hiv, then who knows what else he's ignorant of. Find a new doctor. Remember, you pay him and he's YOUR employee.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

1spclka

  • Guest
Re: Testing Question
« Reply #49 on: October 04, 2006, 01:31:24 PM »
Nope, just hairy tongue.. I don't have any lessions or white spots on my tongue, it just as a slight film on it.  I called and got a referral to a specialist.  I am not sure why he is trying to scare me to death, but he is doing a rather good job at it.  Yes, my last test was at 58 days ( 8 weeks and 2 days).. Today's test will be 10 weeks and 2 days past my last sexual encouter..  I contacted another Dr. in my group and he says that the chance of me being have HIV with three negative tests in the last few months is very low.  And that he expects this test to be negative too! Just one last time for reassurance if this 10 week test is negative.. its a very good chance the next one will be negative also.. and if so the 86 days is enough time to be conclusive?

 


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