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Author Topic: Disclosure and Dating  (Read 5941 times)

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Offline chaos662

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Disclosure and Dating
« on: July 23, 2011, 10:44:20 AM »
Hello everyone!

I have had this experience so many times I thought I'd post this actual conversation I had this morning with a prospective "date" on-line:


Me: Good morning.. :) how are you doing today? My name is Marc

Him: I just rolled outta bed. too early to tell how I am Marc.   lol   Carlos (not his real name) here   how are you?

Me: haha.. that's funny.. HI Carlos.. I"m doing really well thanks.. :) (I got up about an hour ago, so I can tell how I am) LOL

Him: What do u like to do on a date besides eat/drink Marc?   may I please see your private pix?

Me: well the most important thing to me on a date is conversation.. I leave the movie date for a few dates in. :) I have a lot of interests so I like museums, music, theater, movies, the beach.. and much more.. sure... here are my pics.. I like your pics Carlos.. I find you very attractive..

Him: we can talk in my hot tub at night  i can make hors douvers    


Me:  that sounds like a great date

Him: trade shoulder rubs and maybe some kisses

Me: :) I'd like that..

Him: what kinda swim suit would you wear?

Me: well.. I have a few... probably a nice square cut :) .. how about you?

Him: it's in my back yd   so i dont wear 1

Him: what is your hiv status marc?

Me: I'm hiv +, healthy and undetectable and you?

Him: I"m neg ... I"m gonna pass


After this he blocked me.

So.. I"m wondering how many people have had this same ignorant, stigma related experience?

Now, don't get me wrong.. I'm not feeling sorry for myself. I actually felt sorry for him.

Marc

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2011, 10:51:17 AM »
Wow Marc. You are much better off without people like him in your life.

I haven't yet experienced such stigma as I am yet to start dating but I fully expect to run into similar idiots.

I see this is your first post. Welcome to the Forums.

PS- The Mods will probably move this to Living With.
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline chaos662

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2011, 10:53:29 AM »
Thanks for the reply "space"...

I wasn't sure where to post this so I went "off topic" :)


Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2011, 11:02:41 AM »
Look at the bright side.

Being upfront about your status early on has saved you the time, money and energy you would have wasted on this guy only to get the same response later on in time. 

Someone who can't handle an important facet of your life doesn't deserve to be with you. Its his loss.
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2011, 11:06:50 AM »
1) why don't you just put your HIV status in your profile

2) did you date/fuck guys with HIV+ in their status on-line before you were diagnosed?
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline chaos662

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2011, 11:11:34 AM »
Miss Philicia,

1) My status is my business and I am of the mind that I want to disclose to whom I want.

2) Yes I did date/fuck guys with HIV+ in their status. My brother died from complications from AIDS in 1993 and I was very educated on transmission risks. While I usually practiced safer sex, sometimes I did not. (obviously)

FYI, your post came across as accusatory and seemed to put the "blame" on Me.

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2011, 11:31:18 AM »
Chaos,

glad you are rid of that dude. You are going to get those type of reactions, but dont let it discourage you. Your "knight" is out there somewhere.

Also, MissP's response was relatively tame (for her). Dont let her get under your skin.

-Will

PS WElcome to the forums :)
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
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6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline mecch

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2011, 12:16:59 PM »
Chaos,
Of course this is a too common experience of gay chats.  Happens face-to-face too, I posted about that just a few months ago.
It sucks but there are bright sides:
1) You only spend a few moments with this guy.
2) He really really is not interested (the block) so you don't have to waste time with someone who can't deal with HIV.
3) Posting it here - you can read how silly such exchanges really are, taken away from the heat of the gay chat context.  He went straight to sex chat.  There will always be a danger of a fast rejection for you, when you reveal, because there is an ENDLESS supply of "dudes" on sex chats who do NOT want anything to do with an openly HIV+ person.  At least this guy zero'd in quickly and neither of you wasted time, particularly you!

4) He can't spell hors d'œuvre yet thinks he's cool to be a naturalist with the hot tub and all.  You really didn't loose a catch, just a sad stereotype.  You'll find better!
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2011, 12:30:23 PM »
Oh and a PS to everyone.

In situations such as these -- pick ups and cruising strangers -- virtual or live --

To the question:  What is your HIV status?  etc etc...

The answer I am HIV+ and healthy and undetectable seems apologetic - or TMI - too much information.  Its like a PR sell job to the asker.  

Why do I think if the asker is someone who doesn't date or fuck HIV+ guys, that extra "healthy and undetectable" are of little interest and maybe even counter productive.   Could be perceived as a challenge or insult to the asker.  Or weak argument, or TMI, or whatever.

If you say you are HIV+ -- AND THATS IT - the ball is back in the other's court. Maybe you might get more questions about that. Or maybe it doesn't matter to the person.  OR maybe its the deal breaker.  Who the fuck knows.

It rubs me the wrong way to see that on people's profiles too.  Which are already full of self-promotion and this "happy healthy and full of life and undetectable" type crap just falls in line with that treacle.   There is something really howdy doody dumbass sad this sell job and it also sells out all the people who don't take HAART so WTF?
« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, 12:33:25 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2011, 12:32:24 PM »
I feel like it's a dividing line in the sand of the people with AIDS who are sick, versus "me" who is healthy and undetectable.  I would obviously fall into the first group.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2011, 12:35:42 PM »
So rejecting someone who is "HIV and sick" is OK, but "HIV and healthy" isn't? I'm confused.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2011, 12:37:51 PM »
Saying you are healthy and undetectable conveys that there is a miniscule chance of you posing any risk to your potential date, at least the ones who are willing to be educated about it or are already knowledgeable on HIV transmission risks.

I see that as being informative rather than apologetic.
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline mecch

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2011, 12:51:47 PM »
"HIV+ healthy and undetectable" is a constructed identity and I don't think HIV+ people always benefit from it.

Anyway in a cruisy situation - the potential partner - if he is educated about HIV can ask those questions of the guy who just revealed +, and only +,  if these distinctions matters to him.

I personally find this "healthy" claim stupid because undetectable is more or less probably something that is true at the time of saying it. (the poz guy has been und. for a few months or years, so the statement is kinda reliable).  And HIV+ is certainly true. 

Claiming HIV- is often not very reliable. 

And "healthy" is entirely entirely subjective. 

So I guess in the end I am more comfortable with HIV+ and undetectable,  just leaving off that "healthy".   

That's as subjective as all the other qualities people ascribe to themselves to sell themselves to others.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2011, 12:56:42 PM »
Look, I'm permanently a member of the HIV+ "club" and I think we can give too much power to the HIV- of the world.  
If someone asks my status and I'm willing to disclose I'll say +.  If they in turn want to go further maybe there will be a discussion about particulars, or not.
Some dumbass skinny dippy "hot" hot tubber who can't spell hors d'œuvre but says the word in a flirty situation.  Probably not worth my time explaining undetectable etc etc and probably not interested in such info.  And maybe has gross VDs or skin conditions from his snack food infested hot tub, making him less "healthy" than I.   ;D
See what  I mean.

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2011, 01:11:16 PM »
HIV+ maybe need to be a bit more clever and sanguine and equanimous than HIV- people.  

Its not easy to develop but equanimity seems to be a key skill for living well with HIV.  

Its really odd that we have the addition of HAART/undetectable/normal life span kind of throwing a very contradictory (though welcome) complex layer on the experience of living with HIV now in 2011.

I think this is very complex stuff and it would be the few among HIV- who can grasp it.  Luckily enough so there are plenty of serodiscordant couples.  And enough doctors who get it, too.  I wouldn't expect it of the average guy in heat looking to get laid, but its always a nice surprise.

I am an oldtimer on this. Back in the 80's and 90's some could say HIV+ ,  and I (HIV-) would just take it in stride the and if I wanted to fuck the least thing on my mind was his "health", numbers, etc. etc.  Guess that's how I managed to have serodiscordant relationships, too. 


« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, 01:16:18 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2011, 01:27:31 PM »
Here in Western Switzerland there is a new weird calculation going on among HIV+ people and very party friendly HIV- people.  

In fact there is one truly odd sex site where you can not only list your HIV status but also your viral load and all the things you will and wont do and how they do or dont depend on the HIV status.   Mindblowing stuff.   Including a fair amount of HIV- who say they will do such and such unsafe stuff with HIV+ depending, or not, on viral loads and its just too crazy really.

And among the pozzies barebacking each other, in these parts, the fear is all the resurgent STDs but especially HEP C but how anyone can claim to be "HIV+ undetect and healthy" in such a specific context as poz-on-poz bareback seems entirely based on wish and whims.  

And all the lies, misplaced trust, and phoney assumptions.  Went to a small fisting soiree recently where the featured couple, I know the top (GORGEOUS!!!)- hiv- - fists and fucks HIV+ guys and barebacks them when they are undetectable.  The bottom in the couple, no status claimed, was scrupulously following every safety guideline for safe fisting, except of course for his BF top (no glove).  So one assumes the bottom doesn't know the top is ruining the supposed reason he is allowed to fist without a glove.  

Oh the mind tires of all these supposed "assurances":
 "healthy"
"drug disease free"

( hung  ::) single  8) HIV-  ;) )



« Last Edit: July 23, 2011, 01:32:44 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline surf18

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2011, 03:37:08 PM »
I know for a fact I wouldn't have gotten naked with a dude who told me he was poz.
Yea I was ignorant.
Ironic though is many of these so called negs are proably poz and don't know it. There more at risk for infecting others than those of us on meds and ud. Plus were more apt to practice safe sex where as a so called neg who doesn't know he's poz might not.

Offline buginme2

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2011, 06:06:30 PM »
Hanging out naked in some guys hot tub (while fun yes!) is hardly dating.  Its a hook up.  People have a right to hook up (or even date) whoever thay want.  If he just wasnt that into you because of ______ would it make it less painfull?


Offline leatherman

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2011, 07:02:53 PM »
If he just wasnt that into you because of ______ would it make it less painfull?
that's what I thought too.  ;)
So this guy serosorts -/-  (or so he thinks  ::) ) that doesn't seem like too big a deal as many sort +/+.
+/- can be tricky for either or both partners to handle mentally/emotionally

besides, if you're going to be trying to date much, you're going to be running across this a lot, so don't let it get under you're skin too much. ;) This guy obviously wasn't really into your "type" after all, so move along and look for someone else.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline le_liseur

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2011, 11:53:47 PM »
Too bad for him, that's it. But yeah, as others stated, it's not an uncommon reaction. It happens. Often. You'll have to learn to let it go, and understand that, be it for a hook up or a date, you're better without this kind of guys.

The same applies when you're part of pretty much any "type". If you're asian, there will be tons of guys who won't be interested in you simply because of that. If you're black too. If you're short, or considered 'too femine', or anything that is considered of a certain subgroup. Then again, too bad for those who block on these things and are looking for a constructed ideal type.

I've also heard tons of gay men discriminate on women, and some of the girls can get pretty frustrated about it...  ::)

On the other end, did he really write hors d'oeuvre that way? Funny. I hope he doesn't forget to put the chlore in his jacuzzi, as it could get pretty nasty with all the food and the high temperature we have these days... hehe

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2011, 01:00:00 AM »

I've also heard tons of gay men discriminate on women, and some of the girls can get pretty frustrated about it...  ::)


Well they are gay for a reason.... :)
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2011, 01:16:27 AM »
If he just wasnt that into you because of ______ would it make it less painfull?


Hmm, yea thats an important point. I think the answer would depend on how one  views their HIV status and how comfortable they are with it. If someone carries shame and has internalised some of the stigma then it definitely would sting a lot more.

If a short guy or an Asian guy is rejected on grounds of height or race, it might not bother him much as, I would imagine, his skin has grwon thick on such matters and would probably not want to be around people who are racist or don't like short people anyway. These guys have always been asian or short and are totally comfortable with who and what they are.

However, when it comes to HIV, they used to be negative until very recently. It takes time getting used to  I suppose.
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline bradjock

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2011, 01:20:23 AM »
After awhile I started filtering out the "later dude" responses, the white noise stopped bothering me.   The most frustrating thing I found was when i was living in a place without enough poz or poz-friendly guys to play with (or enough who were hot enough and sane enough).  That was when the annoying become isolating (so i moved).

Offline wolfter

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2011, 06:51:45 AM »
I've pretty much decided I will disclose almost immediately.  That's much easier than investing emotionally in a potential relationship and having that person reject you for one reason.  My first attempt at dating after Bill was a major heartbreat.  I met the most incredible man and we were really into each other.  He pretty quickly was pressuring me for sex but I used all the good excuses to wait.  He spent several nights a week with me and had a key to my place. 

He continued to beg for sex and even assured me we'd be safe if my concern was STD's....lol  I mistakenly believed that if we got to know each other beyond superficial means, that he'd be more open to dating a pozzie.  I finally had the talk with him one morning before work and I THOUGHT it went well.  I came home from work that night and my key was on the counter and everything he had at my house was gone.  By that point, I had strong feelings and was quite hurt.  He even changed his cell # in order to avoid me. 
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline numbersguy82

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2011, 08:04:41 AM »
Welcome Chaos!

Wow well I can tell you that I wasn't liking this guy even before his passing of your date. Something seemed off like he was just an arrogant guy out to flirt online with lil chance of actually meeting. Some guys need to put up pics and hear from other people just how attractive they are with no real interest in meeting, just the self-esteem boost.

Either way lesson learned and while I think the blocking was a tad overdramatic perhaps he just wanted to spare either of u an uncomfortable exchange in the future if one of you had forgotten the earlier conversation.

While it sucks to be rejected I know you will adapt and learn to date by taking into account your status just as if someone didn't like your hair or thought your nose was off. Dating is always going to be a challenge and I wish you much success in finding someone who appreciates and loves you... for you!
8/10- 73 cd4, 7%, and 300k VL *First Labs*
9/10- Started Norvir, Prezista, and Truvada
10/10- 511 cd4, 22%, and 886 VL
12/10- 498 cd4, 22%, and 106 VL
3/11- 529 cd4, 29%, and 101 VL
8/11- 620 cd4, 30%, and 74 VL- Switched to Atripla
10/11- 580 ce4, 30%, and 62 VL
12/11- 684 cd4, 31%, and FINALLY *UD*

Offline numbersguy82

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2011, 08:11:03 AM »
I feel like it's a dividing line in the sand of the people with AIDS who are sick, versus "me" who is healthy and undetectable.  I would obviously fall into the first group.

I totally agree with you here... While I think its great when friends are healthy and undetectable, it seems like just another layer of bias in the gay/positive community. Its similar to when a guy is seen as queeny or talking with a lisp. We put in our profiles "Not fem or Str8 only".... sad really but thats the gay community right??? Minimize that while being gay is bad at least we arent as bad as those fem guys. I think its the same concept and we liken being UD to not having HIV at all... like we can fit right back in no problem... out of sight out of mind because we aren't sick. This has been a strong topic lately in my IRL social circle so I'm glad you mentioned it here :)

8/10- 73 cd4, 7%, and 300k VL *First Labs*
9/10- Started Norvir, Prezista, and Truvada
10/10- 511 cd4, 22%, and 886 VL
12/10- 498 cd4, 22%, and 106 VL
3/11- 529 cd4, 29%, and 101 VL
8/11- 620 cd4, 30%, and 74 VL- Switched to Atripla
10/11- 580 ce4, 30%, and 62 VL
12/11- 684 cd4, 31%, and FINALLY *UD*

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2011, 08:59:59 AM »
Life Story by Tennessee Williams
 
After you've been to bed together for the first time,
without the advantage or disadvantage of any prior acquaintance,
the other party very often says to you,
Tell me about yourself, I want to know all about you,
what's your story? And you think maybe they really and truly do
sincerely want to know your life story, and so you light up
a cigarette and begin to tell it to them, the two of you
lying together in completely relaxed positions
like a pair of rag dolls a bored child dropped on a bed.


You tell them your story, or as much of your story
as time or a fair degree of prudence allows, and they say,
       Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
each time a little more faintly, until the oh
is just an audible breath, and then of course
there's some interruption. Slow room service comes up
with a bowl of melting ice cubes, or one of you rises to pee
and gaze at himself with the mild astonishment in the bathroom mirror.
And then, the first thing you know, before you've had time
to pick up where you left off with your enthralling life story,
they're telling you their life story, exactly as they'd intended to all along,
and you're saying, Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
each time a little more faintly, the vowel at last becoming
no more than an audible sigh,
as the elevator, halfway down the corridor and a turn to the left,
draws one last, long, deep breath of exhaustion
and stops breathing forever. Then?


Well, one of you falls asleep
and the other one does likewise with a lighted cigarette in his mouth,
and that's how people burn to death in hotel rooms.

Offline Joe K

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2011, 10:30:17 AM »
While I can appreciate the difficulties of trying to date, I am not so sure as to who the "bad guy" here is suppose to be?  Just because someone rejects you due to your status, does not make them a bad person, nor does it give anyone license to demean that person.  All these comments about "it's his loss" or "you don't need people like him in his life" makes me wonder if we are talking about adults.  Last time I checked, people still had the choice of who they wanted to hook up with or date and unless they are total bigots or real jerks, you have to respect their right to choose.

Putting aside the idea of being rejected for your status, for a moment, doesn't it all come down to simply being rejected?  Yes it hurts and while it may not seem fair to you, that's how life works.  We each have our own tastes and we tend to look for people who share those tastes.  Just because someone is not into you, for whatever reason, does not make them any less of a person, it only means "they are just not that into you."

I think it would be far more beneficial for people to realize that rejection comes in many forms and often is has little to do with "who" you are, as opposed to what you represent, e.g. being poz.  It's really no different from any other factor often considered and the end result is simply that the person is not interested.  It does not make them a bad person, or anything else, it just makes them not interested.  And if you find that prospect just too painful to face, then I suggest you wait until you are more sure of yourself and your ability to see that being rejected often has little to do with who you "really are."
« Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 10:34:37 AM by killfoile »

Offline mecch

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2011, 01:02:55 PM »
"No, thank you, I'd prefer not." Is one thing.  
"I'll pass" and then a direct block on communication is a bit more aggressive in the rejection department.

Otherwise, yes, everyone has the right to whom they want to pursue.
And yes HIV+ people have to get used to people saying no just because they are uncomfortable about that.

Let's not sugar coat or make assumptions about that little flirt on the Internet. Hot Tub hottie was interested until he got the HIV disclosure he asked for, and then CUT our forum member off.  Brutal.  

For perspective:  at least here in uber-polite if maybe fake Switzerland, if a guy can't deal with the HIV disclosure - 9/10 you get this response: "thank you for being frank" (e.g. honest and forthcoming) and 5/10 you even get a compliment for being honest.  Then maybe they reject you anyway.

  
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline buginme2

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2011, 02:28:30 PM »
Who cares? I'm really amazed at how much energy and thought people are placing in some online hook up.  Who cares that the guy "blocked" you?  You had a couple minute conversation with a complete stranger who told your for whatever reason he was gonna pass.  I don't think it was aggressive at all. 

On a side note, if it bothers you for being turned down because your HIV positive, try "dating" (or whatever it is your calling this) with other positive guys.


Offline Joe K

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2011, 02:34:58 PM »
"No, thank you, I'd prefer not." Is one thing.  
"I'll pass" and then a direct block on communication is a bit more aggressive in the rejection department.

Otherwise, yes, everyone has the right to whom they want to pursue.
And yes HIV+ people have to get used to people saying no just because they are uncomfortable about that.

Let's not sugar coat or make assumptions about that little flirt on the Internet. Hot Tub hottie was interested until he got the HIV disclosure he asked for, and then CUT our forum member off.  Brutal.  

For perspective:  at least here in uber-polite if maybe fake Switzerland, if a guy can't deal with the HIV disclosure - 9/10 you get this response: "thank you for being frank" (e.g. honest and forthcoming) and 5/10 you even get a compliment for being honest.  Then maybe they reject you anyway.

I'm not commenting on what the guy did, only on his right to do it.  But my point remains, if you are so fragile emotionally, that you are unable to survive a trick blowing you off... I mean really?  I can't control what others do, but I sure as hell can allow myself to understand what is happening.  The guy was rude, no doubt, but life is full of rude people, so you can either get your panties in a twist, every time you feel rejected, or choose to understand that people reject others for all types of reasons.  This is not the case of the OP actually knowing this person and in being emotionally connected, the rejection would be difficult.  No, we are talking about a hook up site and to me, they didn't reject the OP, because they don't know him, rather they rejected his being poz.  I understand the difference and the sooner folks understand it, the more realistically they will view future rejections.

Offline Joe K

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2011, 02:50:08 PM »
Who cares? I'm really amazed at how much energy and thought people are placing in some online hook up.  Who cares that the guy "blocked" you?  You had a couple minute conversation with a complete stranger who told your for whatever reason he was gonna pass.  I don't think it was aggressive at all.

Actually I care and I'll tell you why.  One of the hardest issues surrounding being poz is the reality that you can now be discriminated against, for something that is totally beyond your control.  Sound familiar?  It should, because for some gays, it's like coming out all over again.  I think it also speaks to the difficulty of accepting being poz and navigating a gay culture that can be very cold.  I believe it speaks to feelings of inadequacy and the idea that we are somehow "broken" or "unworthy."  That's why I think it's important that people understand the difference, between "real" rejection and the reality of gay dating.

I don't think that demeaning someone for how they feel teaches them anything, other than to hide their feelings.  Being poz requires a lot of changes and given the significance of sex in the gay community, HIV becomes just another form of discrimination.  Is it right?  Of course not, but it does exist and I commend folks for seeking ways to navigate these issues, because it all part of living with HIV.

Offline buginme2

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2011, 03:16:05 PM »
Nobody is demeaning anyone.  My point is, why is everyone having such a strong reaction to some guy saying "no" or "I'll pass" on some online hookup website?   Even if it is because they guy is positive.  As Joy Behar would say so what? Who cares?

Everyone has a right to have sex with or date whover they want.  Including not having sex with those who are positive.   To get bent out of shape over it is odd.  In addition, all the posts slamming the guy who said no is just weird.   He wasnt rude.  He just said no.

Offline buginme2

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2011, 03:21:31 PM »
Plus I think I am just taken back by how this is considered dating, maybe I'm just being old.  But come on people, this isnt dating.

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2011, 03:32:20 PM »
Being turned down due to being HIV +, is a reality that the OP, and several others (including myself) will have to face. It is our new reality.

It doesn't matter so much as to whether one is rejected for dating or for a hook-up. Point is, getting rejected over HIV status is hurtful and something completely new- at least until one grows thicker skin and grows comfortable with incorporating this new troublesome facet in your life.

Fact remains that for single poz folk- our options are now severely limited as compare to before, and that is something we will have to get used to.
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline Joe K

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2011, 03:36:25 PM »
Nobody is demeaning anyone.  My point is, why is everyone having such a strong reaction to some guy saying "no" or "I'll pass" on some online hookup website?   Even if it is because they guy is positive.  As Joy Behar would say so what? Who cares?

The person who cares is the OP and we are here to help people adjust, not to tell them how to feel.  When you say "who cares?" that can be taken as "you don't know what you are talking about and your feelings are wrong."  It's called invalidating someone and it does nothing to help anyone adjust to being poz.  I agree that this example is not "dating" but the emotions are the same.  I want folks to understand and believe that there is nothing wrong with them, because of being poz and that you need to grow a thick skin when dating.

For me, the way I do that, is to empathize with what they are feeling and to offer them some alternatives so that ultimately, they feel better about themselves.  Sometimes people are far too quick in giving their power to others and that is no way to live.  If you become good at sorting out the real issues in life, everyone benefits for many reasons.  The way that stigma thrives is when we are unwilling to talk about it and examples like this are perfect for such a discussion.

That is why I said that demeaning people, whether intended or not, is not helpful to anyone.  I can empathize with the OP and other comments here and all I am suggesting is that they take control over those aspects of their life that are under their control.  If someone is so hurt, by being blocked on a casual sex site, I suspect there are other forces at play.

I'm trying to offer a neutral position so others can explore how they might feel.  This issue is not about us, it's about the OP trying to make sense of how his world is changing because he is poz.  

Offline LM

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2011, 03:39:43 PM »
Well, in some places I know the law forces you to disclose, but I think that everywhere else, if you're just looking for some quick sex, better keep it to yourself. If you and other guy wants to bareback, it's a different story, but the other person should know better.

Now, if it's a relationship you're looking for, I think one has to develop the sensibility to know how to disclose, when to disclose, and to whom to disclose, but always thinking first of the best for your well-being. After all, we are the ones in a more vulnerable situation.

Offline elf

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2011, 04:22:25 AM »
Your HIV status is a piece of confidential data and should not be shared with random strangers.  :)

Offline littleprince

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2011, 12:41:28 PM »
... unless you're going to put your penis in them.

Offline Ann

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2011, 01:05:47 PM »
...or letting them put their penis in you!

I've got hiv and I'm not ashamed to say it. It's just a virus, it's not me.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2011, 01:26:27 PM »
...or letting them put their penis in you!

I've got hiv and I'm not ashamed to say it. It's just a virus, it's not me.

You could still put your penis in them, Ann.

Offline Ann

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2011, 01:29:12 PM »
You could still put your penis in them, Ann.

Who said I couldn't?
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2011, 01:41:06 PM »
Who said I couldn't?

Inchling did, I heard him, he's such a naysayer that one.

Offline Raf

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2011, 12:53:47 AM »
That's why I love porn, no disclosures, no STDs, no rejections and no corny chat after sex LOL  :D

Ah well, to the subject. I think that the guy is on his right to choose if he doesn't want to be with a poz, even though he could choose a more polite way to say it.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2011, 01:08:37 AM by Raf »
Dx: 05/14/2008
Latest HIV Meds combo I've been taking:

Kaletra + Combivir (since 05/16/2008 - today)

Offline BJS2011

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2011, 11:46:13 PM »
I would feel sorry for him to. He is just looking for a easy fuck. Setting up the whole romance thing. But then to rudely say he will pass. I would be soooo upset. Shit!! His loss though. Just rem,ember there are lots out there thatwill accept your status. I have never been rejected yet. Good luck!!

Offline monarc

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2011, 08:23:51 AM »
I just now disclosed my status for the first time to a neg.guy on a dating site. The guy was a dream and from his profile it was clear that he was seeking a relationship.

He asked me if I wanted to have a drink sometime. And I responded I loved to do that, but I also wanted to let you know I am HIV positive. He responded that we could be friends but that he wouldn't have sex with me.

Normally I will not disclose this to anyone. I wouldn't either to the guy in the opening post. But yeah sometimes you have to. And it sucks.

Where the #@! can I find a guy in Amsterdam who's not a 'bbslut' or 'cumwhore', is around my age (34) and seeking a relationship. (sorry for the rant)

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2011, 08:34:48 AM »
Where the #@! can I find a guy in Amsterdam who's not a 'bbslut' or 'cumwhore',

Given Amsterdam's reputation, that could be a tall order.

Kidding! ;D

Offline mecch

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #47 on: August 05, 2011, 01:19:02 PM »
Gee I've fucked around Amsterdam many times and always safesex. Shouldn't be that hard to find. And such nice tall men with big equip. :)
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #48 on: August 05, 2011, 01:24:12 PM »
cumwhores need luv too .

Offline Since2005

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Re: Disclosure and Dating
« Reply #49 on: August 05, 2011, 04:26:55 PM »
cumwhores need luv too .

Ha ha funny...

 


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