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Author Topic: Topped 20 secs unprotected, need to get PEP within the next few hours?  (Read 16928 times)

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Offline genieli

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Hi all the experts on this forum,
 
    I have a potential exposure about 50 hours ago and contemplating if I need to get PEP before the clinic closes today.
 
    About 50 hours ago, I engaged in protected sex with another guy (I both topped and bottomed with condom). When I was topping, the whole session was protected EXCEPT the last 20 seconds we did a stupid thing. I took out my condom and inserted my penis in his anal for about 20 seconds, with minimum movement (no thrust, just staying there). I did not ejaculate during that 20 seconds. Afterwards I became scared and quickly went to the toilet to wash off everything on my penis before proceeding to masterbate and ejaculate.
 
There was no bleeding and no cutting on my penis, the possible transmission is through my foreskin (I'm uncut). I became very paranoid afterwards and double confirmed with the guy if he was negative (he claimed to be very safe in all these activities). He assured me that he has been tested every month, and 1st June he was negative, the other similar unsafe activities was about 6 months ago so there was no way he was positive when we had sex.
 
I am 90% sure he is telling the truth as there is no gain for him to lie to me, but as I am a very paranoid person I wondered what if he is lying and what is the chances of me to get expose to HIV virus during that 20 seconds period? Do I need to get a PEP?
 
I have talked to an HIV expert at a local HIV testing point and he advised me not to go through PEP as it will be waste of money and tons of side effect for me.
My main question is : 1. If I want to be really really safe I dont want to risk my life , does it worth enduring all the side effect of PEP for 30 days?
                                2. If I use PEP this time, will it be effective next time if something really serious happened (knock knock if I was raped)? I don't want to give up the only chance of using PEP for this minimal exposure.
 
I only have a few hours to decide before the 72hours periods.......so I need all your experts' advice.... Thanks very much!
 
Regards
L

Offline RapidRod

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nPEP is only given to person with a known exposure to an HIV positive person.

Offline Ann

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L,

Thank goodness the person you talked to was a sensible, knowledgeable person. You do not need PEP over this brief incident. To give you PEP would be to go against the PEP guidelines.

What you engaged in is called dipping and while dipping is a risk for hiv infection, it is very much on the lower end of the scale for the insertive partner. You are highly unlikely to end up positive over this PEP or no PEP, foreskin or no foreskin. And whether or not you came during the dipping has no bearing on your risk.

PEP would be effective regardless of how many times it is used. However, it is not some type of morning after pill - as you were told it has to be taken for 28 days and people often experience serious side-effects. It is only to be used in cases of a clear and definite risk. You did not have such a risk.

You do need to test to be certain of your hiv status, but I fully expect you to test negative over this brief incident. The earliest you should test is at six weeks. The vast majority of people who have actually been infected will seroconvert and test positive by six weeks, with the average time to seroconversion being only 22 days. A six week negative must be confirmed at the three month point, but is highly unlikely to change.

You need to stop relying on what other people tell you about their testing history. That is the worst strategy to use if you want to remain hiv negative. Some people do not accurately know their hiv status and only assume (or hope) they're negative. Some people will lie about their testing history and some people who do know their status will lie.

The best strategy is to assume every single person you have sex with is hiv positive and protect yourself accordingly by using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions. There have been long-term studies of couples where one is positive and one is negative. In the couples who used condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, but no barrier for oral activities, not one of the negative partners became infected with hiv. Not one.

While dipping is low on the hiv risk scale, it is NOT no risk. If you keep doing it, sooner or later the worst will happen. You can also end up with some of the other, more easily transmitted STI while dipping.

Here's what you need to know in order to avoid hiv infection:

You need to be using condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, every time, no exceptions until such time as you are in a securely monogamous relationship where you have both tested for ALL sexually transmitted infections together.

To agree to have unprotected intercourse is to consent to the possibility of being infected with an STI. Sex without a condom lasts only a matter of minutes, but hiv is forever.

Have a look through the condom and lube links in my signature line so you can use condoms with confidence.

Anyone who is sexually active should be having a full sexual health care check-up, including but not limited to hiv testing, at least once a year and more often if unprotected intercourse occurs.

If you aren't already having regular, routine check-ups, now is the time to start. As long as you make sure condoms are being used for intercourse, you can fully expect your routine hiv tests to return with negative results.

Don't forget to always get checked for all the other sexually transmitted infections as well, because they are MUCH easier to transmit than hiv.

Use condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, correctly and consistently, and you will avoid hiv infection. It really is that simple!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline genieli

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Would someone be purposely spreading HIV
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2011, 07:43:21 PM »
I am worried of a potential HIV exposure. Met this guy in the sauna 2 days ago, and he topped me with condom on. In between I remembered he had condom when he pulled out and change position. After that we tried doggy style for a minute or so, but the problem is I didn't check and couldn't remember if he was still wearing a condom when he penetrated me from behind.

The guy was quite cautious and didn't allow me to finger him and later I inserted him with condom on.

I am worried sick probably just because of the guilt of going to sauna, but hypothetically could the guy purposely put out condom and inserted me behind bareback just to spread the HIV? Would I feel much difference with or without a condom? I think he didn't ejaculate inside me (he claimed he didn't), I would know if he came especially when he didn't wear a condom right?

I was even considering a PEP, but that is too extreme prevention method right?

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Would someone be purposely spreading HIV
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2011, 07:53:40 PM »
Please do not start a new thread every time you have another question or thought - regardless if you think your questions are related to each other or not. It helps us to help you when you keep all your thoughts or questions in one thread and it helps other readers to follow the discussion. Additional threads will be merged.

If you cannot find your thread, click on the "Show own posts" link in the left-hand column of any forum page, under your name.


Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Topped 20 secs unprotected, need to get PEP within the next few hours?
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2011, 09:45:05 PM »
I've merged your threads here. In the future please follow our rule and keep all of your entries in this same thread.

Ann has already responded very fully and accurately to your concerns about this incident. You were not at risk for HIV. Period.

Just because your head is going wild with fears and regrets doesn't change the fact that condoms were used and that means you were effectively protected.

There is no need for HIV testing and certainly no need for PEP.
Andy Velez

Offline genieli

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Re: Topped 20 secs unprotected, need to get PEP within the next few hours?
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2011, 10:41:54 PM »
Thanks Andy,

I was actually referring to another incident rather than the original post (I was tested negative last time btw)

I was the receptive partner and wasn't entirely sure if condom was used during part of the intercourse, if I want to be entriely safe do I need to take PEP just in case I was expose during that 1 minute?

Offline genieli

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Re: Topped 20 secs unprotected, need to get PEP within the next few hours?
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2011, 01:25:19 PM »
Sorry to trouble, I will definitely go testing after one month and 3 months, but should I take PEP, considering this is unproven exposure (as receptive partner)?

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Topped 20 secs unprotected, need to get PEP within the next few hours?
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2011, 02:20:23 PM »
Your concerns are in the "what if" and fears category and not really based on anything reliable. As far as I can tell a condom was used.

If you are going to make yourself nuts over this then go do PEP. But I don't think it's necessary and PEP is not something to be undertaken lightly. Also, testing for HIV has to be at 3 months after the completion of the 28 day PEP cycle. But again, I don't see any real reason for you to do PEP nor for you to be further concerned about this recent incident.
Andy Velez

Offline genieli

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Re: Topped 20 secs unprotected, need to get PEP within the next few hours?
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2011, 11:31:52 PM »
Hi, Andy & everyone else, I had another question regarding risk factor with another guy I had sex with.

     1. At the beginning there was a brief 3-5 seconds unprotected partial penetration (the head of his penis entered),and I quickly asked him to pull out and went to bathroom to wash it using soap. He did not penetrate me afterwards. He might have some pre-cum during the brief penetration.

     2. When I was insertive partner, there was a moment the condom almost fell off when I pulled out. I don't think the inside of the condom was contaminated, so I put on the same condom to continue sex for a minute or so.

     Assuming the other partner is HIV positive, what are my risk of HIV exposure during these 2 incidents, should I say almost zero and I need not worry about it?

THanks very much!
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 11:59:41 PM by genieli »

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Topped 20 secs unprotected, need to get PEP within the next few hours?
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2011, 11:38:18 PM »
I certainly wouldn't change my assessment based on the information you gave.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline genieli

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Re: Topped 20 secs unprotected, need to get PEP within the next few hours?
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2011, 12:00:42 AM »
Hi jkinatl2,

    These 2 incidents were with different person. Are you saying both incidents are low to zero risk?

THanks

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Topped 20 secs unprotected, need to get PEP within the next few hours?
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2011, 12:09:28 AM »
I am
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline genieli

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Re: Topped 20 secs unprotected, need to get PEP within the next few hours?
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2011, 12:28:44 AM »
Thanks for clarifying, since it is almost zero risk, I can have a peace of mind now

Offline genieli

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Re: Topped 20 secs unprotected, need to get PEP within the next few hours?
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2011, 12:53:04 AM »
Hi Ann Andy and everyone,
    I am seek advice if I need to do another HIV testing
    I was tested negative 4 weeks after the 2nd incident reported in the thread (I was the receptive partner and I couldn't remember if condom was used for the entire process)
    However, right after the test I start to have a flu like symptoms, fatigue, low fever and etc. I have been taking rest at home these few days as doctor suggest it might be just a normal flu.
    I know 6 weeks testing post exposure is more or less conclusive, so do I need to do another test in 6th week or this 4 weeks test is good enough I only need to do another one in 3 months?

Thanks

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Topped 20 secs unprotected, need to get PEP within the next few hours?
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2011, 09:08:28 AM »
gen,

You can test at six weeks if you want to, as long as you remember only a three month test is conclusive.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline genieli

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Seen cases with oral sex transmission - are they lying?
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2012, 10:34:03 AM »
Hi experts here,

   I am helping out with some local clinic with HIV testing. Recently I saw a guy tested positive and he swore he only had unprotected oral sex (performing one and he had ulcer) with a known HIV partner (Of course, people might be lying). My clinic manager who has been running HIV related volunteering work for the past 10 years told me he has seen cases where HIV are transmitted through oral sex.

   I know the consensus here is oral sex has no risk, neither cut nor ulcer will make a difference.  But having seen the person myself and heard from my clinic manager, I am starting to wonder, are these people lying (to cover the fact they had unprotected sex) or there might be small risk involved?

   Thanks!

Best
G

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Topped 20 secs unprotected, need to get PEP within the next few hours?
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2012, 12:08:34 PM »
First all please follow our rule and use only this same thread for all of your entries. Thanks for your cooperation.

G, we don't say you can't get infected via oral sex. The only 100% safe sex is that which you may have with your own hand. But the evidence of science and decades is that the only confirmed risks for the sexual transmission of HIV are unprotected vaginal and anal intercourse.

Oral sex is one of the most common of sexual activities. If it were more than a theoretical and very, very rare risk we would have known so long before today. The reports of those who claim to have been infected through oral sex aren't just a matter of lying. Sometimes because of excessive drinking or drugs or other aspects they don't recall accurately what they've done. And there is the intentional inaccurate reporting because they are embarassed about some aspect of their behavior. Among other reasons...

Giving oral sex is clearly to be avoided when there is extremely poor oral care or a very fresh wound in the mouth. Receiving oral, well there just has never been a confirmed case of that sort and I think it comes as close to 100% risk free as possible.

So as with everything else sexual, to some extent you have to use your common sense judgement about what you do.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2012, 12:13:56 PM by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline genieli

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Giving oral sex is clearly to be avoided when there is extremely poor oral care or a very fresh wound in the mouth. Receiving oral, well there just has never been a confirmed case of that sort and I think it comes as close to 100% risk free as possible.


Hi Andy or other experts, just to clarify the definition of extremely poor oral care. I definitely DO NOT have meth-mouth-like condition. But on a separate account recently, I had teeth cleansing 3 days prior to performing oral sex on a few people. There were slight bleeding at root of teeth during the cleansing session (dentist said it was normal and expected) , but I believe those tiny traumas had already healed by the time I performed oral sex 3 days later? (no sign of bleeding) Will this prior cleansing increase the risk of contracting HIV via oral (no ejaculation but assuming other parties are positive)? I know it is low but just need some assurance
 
I have also done some search in the other sections of this forum, looks like there is still debate on the HIV oral transmission route as some of the members claim they got it through oral =(
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 02:42:15 PM by genieli »

Offline RapidRod

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No risk from teeth cleaning.

Offline Andy Velez

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Yes, some do claim to have been infected through oral sex. Those claims never do seem to hold up under careful scrutiny.

If it's going to worry you then get tested. I don't have any doubts you will test negative.
Andy Velez

Offline genieli

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No risk from teeth cleaning.
Yes Rapid Rod, I know teeth cleaning is no risk as all the equipment were sterilized, but I meant will the small wounds resulted from teeth cleaning increase the risk of oral (even it is 3 days later) ?

I will get tested first 6 weeks post exposure like Andy said

Offline Andy Velez

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No it won't increase the risk 3 days later.

Andy Velez

Offline genieli

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Re: Topped 20 secs unprotected, need to get PEP within the next few hours?
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2014, 08:07:42 PM »
Hi all experts,

I had another incident last night. I was the receptive partner while having sex with a guy. Halfway during intercourse, when the guy re-entered me (his dick was fully inside me), I realized the condom broke, and I immediately pulled out (no more than 2 seconds). Later when I examined the broken condom, there was a small tear on top, and some body fluids outside the condom. I don't think I had any tearing inside my anal as I didn't see any bleeding afterwards (but you never know)

When I asked the guy, he claimed he is negative and checks every 3 months. I somewhat trust him but I follow the rules on the forum here and assume the other party is always positive.

Now I am a bit paranoid. Assuming the guy was positive, what is the risk of contracting HIV through this brief incident? As it is still within 24-72 hr period, should I get PEP for this?

Thanks a lot everyone

G


Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Topped 20 secs unprotected, need to get PEP within the next few hours?
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2014, 08:30:43 PM »
Hi Genieli,

OK, by now I think you know the drill. You did have a risk because of the broken condom but it was a low level one. You were protected until the condom broke and this was a single incident. Given what you have described of what happened I'd say the odds are in your favor that you will test negative.

You can test initially at 6 weeks after the incident. If you have negative result at that time then the likelihood is you will conclusively test negative at 3 months.

You do have that other option of PEP which you have mentioned. If you're going to do it then the sooner the better within the time frame you have mentioned. It means that when you conclude the 28 period of treatment, your countdown to when you can test initially is 6 weeks from when the treatment is completed. And then again three months after completing the treatment.

Andy Velez

 


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