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Author Topic: bisexual  (Read 17920 times)

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Offline bocker3

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #100 on: August 04, 2011, 11:07:09 PM »
You basically blame me for people's deaths and I'm the self-righteous one?

Like I said, twisted sense of morality. What you guys think about being open about your sexuality or HIV status is unreal, to say the least. It's not about courage, or being a paragon of justice and the fight against prejudices or stigmas. Being open about your sexuality or HIV status is a personal choice and I'm pretty sure whatever decision you've made was not thinking about the well-being of mankind, but your own. And that's not bad, it's just what it is. You're entitled to decide what's best for your life and so am I. I respect that, so why don't you? You should stop thinking the only right way is your way and other people are cowards and on a safe zone.

And true about what you said: many times being in the closet and going around infecting your partner go hand in hand. Or being homophobic, campaigning agaist the gay community, etc. But then I go back to what killfoile said and that is being true to yourself. That's what matters most in the end.

I think in your rush to be "right", you are missing the point.  You think one person's dishonesty is fair game because it puts someone else at risk -- then you reason away your dishonesty by saying it doesn't hurt anyone.  Go ask those that you deceived and see if the they feel "hurt" by your dishonesty?  It's not what you are dishonest about, it's probaby not even that you were dishonest -- it's your slapping down someone else.  So pick your nits, and split your hairs -- but THAT is, I think, the point Tim and others are trying to make to you.  Stop for a moment and read what I said with a desire to understand rather than looking for how to defend yourself, perhaps you'll see the distinction I'm making.
Was Valmont wrong -- probably (definitely from her POV) --- are you "wrong" -- probably (very likely from your unknowing tricks POV).  Now I'm not saying that you SHOULD disclose, I'm simply saying that you, Mr. Pot, aren't all that different in color from Mr. Kettle, perhaps a different shade, but not a different color.

I know this will likely have fallen on deaf ears.....  so be it, but I hope you see a glimmer here.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #101 on: August 04, 2011, 11:32:39 PM »
You don't know me and how many Pride Parades I've marched in!!!!

True, I don't know you, and I don't need to know you nor how many Pride Parades you've marched in to say that you are openly gay (or about whatever) because it was better for you. There was no altruism in that, that's the choice that worked better for you and that's fine. That alone didn't make you an activist for gay rights, or HIV+ rights, if you are one, but other things you've done besides that. That's my point.

I think in your rush to be "right", you are missing the point.  You think one person's dishonesty is fair game because it puts someone else at risk -- then you reason away your dishonesty by saying it doesn't hurt anyone.  Go ask those that you deceived and see if the they feel "hurt" by your dishonesty?  It's not what you are dishonest about, it's probaby not even that you were dishonest -- it's your slapping down someone else.  So pick your nits, and split your hairs -- but THAT is, I think, the point Tim and others are trying to make to you.  Stop for a moment and read what I said with a desire to understand rather than looking for how to defend yourself, perhaps you'll see the distinction I'm making.
Was Valmont wrong -- probably (definitely from her POV) --- are you "wrong" -- probably (very likely from your unknowing tricks POV).  Now I'm not saying that you SHOULD disclose, I'm simply saying that you, Mr. Pot, aren't all that different in color from Mr. Kettle, perhaps a different shade, but not a different color.

I know this will likely have fallen on deaf ears.....  so be it, but I hope you see a glimmer here.

Mike


Mike, if I may address you as such, I have no intent on being "right". But as I've said, comparing both things is completely absurd. Why would I have to tell someone I'm bisexual? Really, that's why I'm saying this must be a cultural thing, because it just doesn't make sense to me. I didn't deceive anyone because it's simply none of their business. Do I suddenly owe someone this disclosure? Perhaps you could say that in a relationship, and I would agree. But even if I didn't, I still think it's crazy to compare that to putting someone at risk for STDs. It's not just emotions we're talking about, but someone's health. Calling me dishonest because of that is completely out of order. There is something called personal, and I'm pretty sure none of you disclose every single aspect of your life to someone the first time you meet them, and I don't see how this is any different.

The fact is that this isn't about how I talked to Valmont. He dealt well with it, why can't you? Call me rude, insensitive, or whatever, but saying I can't criticize someone because I'm dishonest for not disclosing my sexuality to others is just crazy.

Offline thunter34

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #102 on: August 04, 2011, 11:43:05 PM »
True, I don't know you, and I don't need to know you nor how many Pride Parades you've marched in to say that you are openly gay (or about whatever) because it was better for you. There was no altruism in that, that's the choice that worked better for you and that's fine.

For someone who keeps insisting that we don't know you, you keep making some major assumptions when it comes to others.

As a matter of fact, it was NOT what simply worked better for me.  It was the absolute hardest and most miserable time of my life - but I plugged away at it anyway.  And yes, largely on principle.  It would have been much easier for me to stay all quiet and cozy at the time.

AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #103 on: August 04, 2011, 11:47:13 PM »
Real activist always march in gay pride parades with those assless chaps on ... every body knows that .

Offline thunter34

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #104 on: August 04, 2011, 11:48:20 PM »
Real activist always march in gay pride parades with those assless chaps on ... every body knows that .

OMG  thank you!  Something else to remember to pack for Seattle!
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #105 on: August 05, 2011, 12:05:35 AM »
Large meat lovers pizza and 10 barbeque chicken wings.

Oops, sorry, thought I was posting on the Papa John's online ordering website...

 ::)
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #106 on: August 05, 2011, 12:08:00 AM »
For someone who keeps insisting that we don't know you, you keep making some major assumptions when it comes to others.

As a matter of fact, it was NOT what simply worked better for me.  It was the absolute hardest and most miserable time of my life - but I plugged away at it anyway.  And yes, largely on principle.  It would have been much easier for me to stay all quiet and cozy at the time.



It's not a major assumption, it's just human. Would it have been easier if you stayed quiet? Perhaps. Would it have been better? Probably not. I'm not questioning how hard it was for you, I'm saying you did it because you thought it was best for yourself in the end, despite all the hardships.

I just left the stable job I had. Was it easy? No, I'm still paying the consequences, for I'm unemployed and with little money. Was it better? Hell yes. The job was killing me and I want something more. Get my point?

What was the best for you may not be the best for me and whatever decision you took doesn't make you better than those who didn't. And whatever decision you took wouldn't stop you either from marching in Pride Parades, being outspoken for gay rights, etc, the same way as it doesn't stop me as well.

Offline Since2005

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #107 on: August 05, 2011, 04:10:28 AM »
For others, it is his own right and choice what he says or does at his will, is his business. If he decides to stay in the closet with his sexuality and with his HIV status then it is his F...ing business. Who are you to say that he is wrong or you are better than him because you are out. Because you are out you are fighting for rights we all salute you for that. For God's sake, because of that we have this Forum. However, in NO WAYS he or I or anyone else who is the closet owe anything to you AT ALL and we certainly are not floating on a free boat. Everyone has their own issues and has their own way of dealing with things. Please be mindful to that regard.

For LM, I have been reading this thread all along tonight. I was amazed to see how you made a comment to someone who was only sharing his ‘so personal’ story with us (sorry I am repeating Nestor here). I myself came to this forum only a few days ago and I have shared my personal story to others and I was saddened to see  (I actually cried) how few people were passing judgments or making comments ‘without being compassionate’. It did hurt me and I am sure that was not their intention but because they were unable to be compassionate and kind to my concerns and stories (regardless how accurate or supportive they were) and rushed to say what needs to be said , that did not make me feel any better and at one point I thought it was a bad idea to come this Forum after all. So, I know how Valmont felt. You are completely oblivious to his sensitive issue as how terrible he feels for the situation that he is in rather you were worried about how he gives bisexuality a bad name. At one point, he said something like ‘may be it was not such a good idea to tell the story’.  So, please (I am not judging you here), before you post your comments, at least try to be sensitive to whom are you making comments about.

« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 04:58:18 AM by Since2005 »

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #108 on: August 05, 2011, 05:41:17 AM »
While I can see that a closeted bisexual preaching to another bisexual could come across as rather hypocritical, sanctimonious and spineless-particularly to those open about their sexuality and HIV status, I really don’t see why such person’s opinion/judgment should carry any less weight solely due to the fact that he’s closeted –especially when no one disputes the fact that it is wrong to cheat on your wife and put her at risk of STDs.

While it is courageous, praiseworthy and commendable to be open about your sexuality and/or HIV status, it is unfair to expect the same from each and every person because everyone is different (no two people have the same definition of 'sexuality' or 'morality') and has different circumstances. It is one thing to label someone as spineless due to being closeted but quite another to regard that as some sort of character flaw that automatically disqualifies such person from forming an opinion (or invalidates an opinion) that 99% of people would have formed anyway.

I do agree with Nestor. Valmont was very brave in laying all the cards out here never once did he not accept blame or deny responsibility. LM, had you just been a little compassionate with him rather than adopt an insulting tone and call him 'selfish' etc I doubt you'd have gotten the responses you have.

That said, Valmont, like I said before, I think you should convince your wife to get tested soon. That's the most important.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 07:38:56 AM by spacebarsux »
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline buginme2

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #109 on: August 05, 2011, 06:11:30 AM »
Large meat lovers pizza and 10 barbeque chicken wings.

Oops, sorry, thought I was posting on the Papa John's online ordering website...

 ::)

Dude, a Large meat lovers AND chicken wings!  Watch out or you might end up with a coronary.  

Ooh I love that papa johns garlic dipping sauce though
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 06:13:56 AM by buginme2 »

Offline BT65

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #110 on: August 05, 2011, 06:17:53 AM »
Except for the way I addressed Valmont, for I did get pissed off with his story,

He who is without sin can cast the first stone.  I doubt you have that right.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline bocker3

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #111 on: August 05, 2011, 07:47:07 AM »
Mike, if I may address you as such, I have no intent on being "right". But as I've said, comparing both things is completely absurd. Why would I have to tell someone I'm bisexual? Really, that's why I'm saying this must be a cultural thing, because it just doesn't make sense to me. I didn't deceive anyone because it's simply none of their business. Do I suddenly owe someone this disclosure? Perhaps you could say that in a relationship, and I would agree. But even if I didn't, I still think it's crazy to compare that to putting someone at risk for STDs. It's not just emotions we're talking about, but someone's health. Calling me dishonest because of that is completely out of order. There is something called personal, and I'm pretty sure none of you disclose every single aspect of your life to someone the first time you meet them, and I don't see how this is any different.

The fact is that this isn't about how I talked to Valmont. He dealt well with it, why can't you? Call me rude, insensitive, or whatever, but saying I can't criticize someone because I'm dishonest for not disclosing my sexuality to others is just crazy.

You have, once more, either missed or ignored my point.  You are focused on the message, I am focused on the tone and intent.  I am focused on your take that your dishonesty (withholding information is acceptable, yet just as dishonest as Valmont's -- the consequences may be different, but the dishonesty is EXACTLY the same) is "acceptable" because YOU have decided for OTHERS what they would or would not find "hurtful".  You have taken all choice away from them -- just like Valmont.  Again, I am not comparing potential consequences. 

Bottomline -- you have the right to do as you wish -- so does Valmont.  You have the right to respond to Valmont too - I don't disagree with your message to him.  What I take issue with is your sanctimoneous attitude.  It is not absurd to compare your decision to not give your tricks full disclosure from his -- again, consequences are a different subject.  Although, I suspect that you, like most of us, have withheld some disclosures that might have had some serious consequences too.....  so just take a breathe and stop personalizing what others may have done (which seems to be the root of your anger).  What he did really isn't about you -- unless you are afraid that his actions reflect poorly on you, as a bisexual.  And if that is the case -- your being in the closet reflects poorly on me, as a "non-straight" person -- becuase it reinforces that not being straight is "bad".

Hopefully, you see a little of what I am trying to get across.  I hope so -- because I'm done explaining now.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #112 on: August 05, 2011, 12:20:40 PM »
You are completely oblivious to his sensitive issue as how terrible he feels for the situation that he is in rather you were worried about how he gives bisexuality a bad name. At one point, he said something like ‘may be it was not such a good idea to tell the story’.  So, please (I am not judging you here), before you post your comments, at least try to be sensitive to whom are you making comments about.



Since2005, I read your thread and was going to say something, but then it developed a lot, I got stuck in this thread, so I didn't go there. But anyway, do seek help, your health comes first and you can't keep it waiting any longer. If you ever want to share anything or just talk, feel free to PM me.

Now, I wasn't completely oblivious, I was aware. But he said he wasn't even sure if he were selfish. I couldn't hold it in me if he is still questioning if the was selfish or not because he sure was. Damn right he should be upset about it. That done, I repeat my point: now that he is aware of the mistake he's done, he should take care he doesn't do it again, thinking of his family first. What I said about "giving bisexuality a bad name" was never the main point, just a side comment.

Not long ago, I remember one guy who came here and said he had cheated on his wife, gave her HIV+ and she still continued with him. Then, he said something like he didn't love her anymore, had another mistress and didn't tell her yet he was HIV+ and he was thinking of leaving his wife, etc. Well, anyway, no one showed him any compassion. People wouldn't show compassion for someone who admitted here that they had murdered someone as well, even if he regretted it, for example.

Now, sure, I slapped him. But before and now I was still willing to give words of advice. It's not the first time he posts in the community or reports what happened. I didn't like what he did and didn't attack him the first time he told it, I knew it wasn't easy for him and said nothing. I even gave advice in other threads. But I thought he needed to be reminded of his mistake if he's not sure about it.

And I don't mind anyone questioning me about that. But I didn't see the people attacking me, for completely unrelated reasons, showing Valmont any compassion. They didn't give a damn. In fact, I seldom see these people giving a damn about anyone's problems here. What I regularly see is an attitude of feeling superior, better than others because they are HIV+ for longer. And now because they are open about their sexuality or HIV status. They accuse me of personalizing what he did, yet they personalize the fact I'm not open about my sexuality of HIV status. It's just like you and spacebarsux expressed, and I think this answers him as well.

Just the same for BT65. Sure, you may question my right of casting a stone, like you said. But you see, I judged his actions and still wished the best for him. I wouldn't deny any words of wisdom or compassion and repeatedly I didn't. Regardless, nothing gives anyone the right to judge me as a person, as some have here. And I don't see you upset about that.

I am focused on your take that your dishonesty (withholding information is acceptable, yet just as dishonest as Valmont's -- the consequences may be different, but the dishonesty is EXACTLY the same) is "acceptable" because YOU have decided for OTHERS what they would or would not find "hurtful".  You have taken all choice away from them -- just like Valmont.  Again, I am not comparing potential consequences. 

Mike, I'll highlight just this part because what you keep saying and repeated here is just out of this world. If my words aren't enough for you grasp the absurd you are saying, please read what Nestor, since2005 and spacebarsux have said. I'm very glad they have said something about it, because or else, I'd think I was crazy. There is still sanity in this world.

Offline Joe K

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #113 on: August 05, 2011, 12:53:29 PM »
If it's someone who has issues, it looks like it's you. Grow up and take responsibility for your own actions without expecting the same from others.

I have a few other thoughts. Your quote above really gave me pause and I wonder if you truly believe what you wrote.  The reason I ask is that I agree with taking responsibility for my own actions, but I also expect the same from others.  I cannot control what others do and say, as that is not my job.  But if I am to rely on what someone tells me, or their actions, then it does indeed matter what they do and say.  I am not suggesting that anyone must think or believe as I do, however, if they are unable to honestly share with me their beliefs, how am I ever going to make an informed decision of deciding to be with that person?

The same could be said for passing judgement on others in the forum.  Valmount was honest with his wife, regarding his sexuality and for that he is to be commended.  His cheating and subsequent infection is a matter between him and his wife exclusively.  That is not to say that his cheating was right, because he may be putting his wife at risk for infection, and comments reflecting disdain for his actions are proper when done in a compassionate way.  I think that maybe you are confusing a few issues and personalizing some issues that are of concern to you.  Just some food for thought.

One last thing.  I find it most distasteful when anyone suggests that people who are open about their sexuality or whatever have no right to comment on those who choose to remain closeted.  The folks who are open about being gay or bi or poz, do a great service to all those similarly affected, because they put a face to the issue.  Without the people, who stand against unjust authority, all of our lives would be much poorer.  The people who refuse to be cowed by intolerance, are the ones who truly affect change.  It does not mean they are any better than anyone else, however it does mean they deserve our utmost respect for their actions.

A rising tide lifts ALL boats.   

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #114 on: August 05, 2011, 02:40:38 PM »
One last thing.  I find it most distasteful when anyone suggests that people who are open about their sexuality or whatever have no right to comment on those who choose to remain closeted.  The folks who are open about being gay or bi or poz, do a great service to all those similarly affected, because they put a face to the issue.  Without the people, who stand against unjust authority, all of our lives would be much poorer.  The people who refuse to be cowed by intolerance, are the ones who truly affect change.  It does not mean they are any better than anyone else, however it does mean they deserve our utmost respect for their actions.

A rising tide lifts ALL boats.  

Agreed, almost in whole. Except that, passing comment on those who are closeted about their sexuality or HIV status should never turn into denigrating attacks or belittling someone for the same which is just as unsavoury. Everyone has unique perspective on these issues and not everyone wants to be the poster boy for gay rights and/or HIV stigma reduction and that in no way makes them any less of a human being or makes their views any less valid.

I'm sorry, but you can't say you are Gandhi for a cause and yet act like Hitler (and say that is not just fine but a 'right') in order for you to advance that cause.

Ps- I am open to most friends about being gay not completely open about being poz
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 04:32:35 PM by spacebarsux »
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #115 on: August 05, 2011, 02:45:30 PM »
I have a few other thoughts. Your quote above really gave me pause and I wonder if you truly believe what you wrote.  The reason I ask is that I agree with taking responsibility for my own actions, but I also expect the same from others.  I cannot control what others do and say, as that is not my job.  But if I am to rely on what someone tells me, or their actions, then it does indeed matter what they do and say.  I am not suggesting that anyone must think or believe as I do, however, if they are unable to honestly share with me their beliefs, how am I ever going to make an informed decision of deciding to be with that person?

The same could be said for passing judgement on others in the forum.  Valmount was honest with his wife, regarding his sexuality and for that he is to be commended.  His cheating and subsequent infection is a matter between him and his wife exclusively.  That is not to say that his cheating was right, because he may be putting his wife at risk for infection, and comments reflecting disdain for his actions are proper when done in a compassionate way.  I think that maybe you are confusing a few issues and personalizing some issues that are of concern to you.  Just some food for thought.

One last thing.  I find it most distasteful when anyone suggests that people who are open about their sexuality or whatever have no right to comment on those who choose to remain closeted.  The folks who are open about being gay or bi or poz, do a great service to all those similarly affected, because they put a face to the issue.  Without the people, who stand against unjust authority, all of our lives would be much poorer.  The people who refuse to be cowed by intolerance, are the ones who truly affect change.  It does not mean they are any better than anyone else, however it does mean they deserve our utmost respect for their actions.

A rising tide lifts ALL boats.  

Joe, it's good you quoted that phrase because I think it explains much of this.

I didn't really get your point in the first paragraph, but remember I've advocated disclosing to a partner in a relationship, as I have done so. I just think it's mental to call me dishonest for not telling everyone I meet I'm bisexual. Or HIV+.

Now, the point was never about if Valmont disclosed to his wife if he was bisexual or not (that didn't mean she accepted an open relationship), but that he cheated on his wife, had an accident or not with the condom and continued to have unprotected sex with her. You say what I did was not proper because I didn't do it in a compassionate way. I accept that criticism, as I have repeatedly. But that didn't give anyone the right to attack me for something completely unrelated and they surely lacked compassion.

Not only them, but you have also been unkind to people seeking help. I've already mentioned this thread, but remember the "help me" thread, by this guy "depressed derek"? You were pretty severe with him. And that's not the first time I saw you doing that.

But I don't think you were wrong. I certainly don't condemn you for that, as some actions people take bother us and we think the best thing is to scold them. But then some people keep on saying I'm "personalizing" some issues. Like I said, many people think that bisexuals are gay men that lead a double life, married to a woman and having sex with men on the side. And then, usually the man goes, gets an STD and infects his wife. I've always been strongly against this, so it bothers me to see someone has done that. If you wish to call that "personalizing", be it as it may. What he did bothered me just as what that derek guy did bothered you.

But how ever you may wish to call it, the same was done to me. Some people who are open about their sexuality or their HIV status, and who seem to have a very strong view about this, were bothered by the fact that I was not and attacked me for it. And for no reason. Instead of saying I was unkind to Valmont, they attacked for something completely unrelated. Don't you think that's "personalizing" as well"? I think it's even worse, because it was not even the topic and it was raised for the 2nd time in a different thread to assault me.

You say it is a matter between him and his wife, and it is. He questioned himself if he was selfish, and all I did was affirm that he had been indeed selfish. And he agreed with me. What the others did was completely uncalled for, and exactly as it is his and his wife's matter, what I decide to do about disclosing or not facts about my life is my problem only. I have not once complained, moped or asked anyone's opinion about that. Yet, some people thought they had the right to assault me anyway. You think they have the right to comment about it. Well, perhaps they could, but not attacking, and I certainly didn't see any compassion in it, just an attempt to patronize me.

Finally, no one is doing me a great service by being openly gay, bi, poz, or whatever. I owe them nothing and they have no right to think I do. I have already said this, but being open about that doesn't make you an activist for gay rights or HIV+ rights. Many people who are openly gay decided to be so because it made their life easier. Many people who are openly poz are so because they didn't have much choice. I certainly respect and admire those who are fighting for these rights, and I do too, as I've mentioned before. Being "in the closet" doesn't stop me from fighting for them, and it certainly hasn't, as I know I've done much more that some who may go on Parades with assless chaps. So no, no one has the right to think or act like they are better than others just because they are open about things of their life.

So my quote expresses just that. It looks like some people have issues with me not being openly bisexual, as irrelevant as it may be to their lives. If someone has decided to be open about that or whatever in their lives, that person should take responsibility for his actions and not expect the others to do the same because they think they are the righteous ones. The mature thing to do is to respect people's different perspectives, what certainly hasn't happened here.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 02:55:58 PM by LM »

Offline bocker3

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #116 on: August 05, 2011, 03:14:04 PM »
Finally, no one is doing me a great service by being openly gay, bi, poz, or whatever. I owe them nothing and they have no right to think I do. I have already said this, but being open about that doesn't make you an activist for gay rights or HIV+ rights. Many people who are openly gay decided to be so because it made their life easier. Many people who are openly poz are so because they didn't have much choice. I certainly respect and admire those who are fighting for these rights, and I do too, as I've mentioned before. Being "in the closet" doesn't stop me from fighting for them, and it certainly hasn't, as I know I've done much more that some who may go on Parades with assless chaps. So no, no one has the right to think or act like they are better than others just because they are open about things of their life.

Time to call bullshit on you.  Openly, gay, bi, poz, etc folks are absolutely doing you a service.  You may deny it, but they are -- they are, slowly, making it easier for people to live their lives as they are so wired.  If everyone had your spine, we'd still be back in the 50's and 60's were gays would be arrested for being in a "gay bar". 
So -- don't denigrate the word by calling yourself an activist.  You can NOT be an activist and be in the closet.  All that really does is have you out there saying "they" should be treated differently -- "they" deserve the same as "us".  That would be great if you were, in fact straight and negative -- but you are NEITHER straight nor negative.  So all you are doing is enjoying the benefits that the true activists are helping to bring us, yet facing none of the pain to get them.  If you can't see that (I know you won't), then you are even more of dolt than you appear.
Now -- you have every right to remain closeted -- I know everyone can't be out and open -- it took me a good number of years, but don't sit there and say that you own nothing to those that are out.  I stayed in the closet for years out of cowardice -- I didn't want to face ridicule, lose my job, be attacked, whatever it was -- it boiled down to cowardice.  And it still does, sister -- it still does.

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Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #117 on: August 05, 2011, 03:49:00 PM »
Time to call bullshit on you.  Openly, gay, bi, poz, etc folks are absolutely doing you a service.  You may deny it, but they are -- they are, slowly, making it easier for people to live their lives as they are so wired.  If everyone had your spine, we'd still be back in the 50's and 60's were gays would be arrested for being in a "gay bar". 
So -- don't denigrate the word by calling yourself an activist.  You can NOT be an activist and be in the closet.  All that really does is have you out there saying "they" should be treated differently -- "they" deserve the same as "us".  That would be great if you were, in fact straight and negative -- but you are NEITHER straight nor negative.  So all you are doing is enjoying the benefits that the true activists are helping to bring us, yet facing none of the pain to get them.  If you can't see that (I know you won't), then you are even more of dolt than you appear.
Now -- you have every right to remain closeted -- I know everyone can't be out and open -- it took me a good number of years, but don't sit there and say that you own nothing to those that are out.  I stayed in the closet for years out of cowardice -- I didn't want to face ridicule, lose my job, be attacked, whatever it was -- it boiled down to cowardice.  And it still does, sister -- it still does.

Mike

Keep doing a great job judging me and personalizing your experiences onto me. You're just proving my point. Not that it matters to you, but let me share something.

Where I live, a few years ago, we had our first elected Congressman who was openly gay. You know what he did? He made a speech in Congress against gay marriage because he said it didn't work for straight people, so it wouldn't work for gays, who weren't normal. Meanwhile, a mayor of one major city here, gay, but in the closet, worked hard to create services for the gay community, and HIV+.

The first was elected a Congressman because he was a polemic TV show host, despite being gay. The second was elected because people didn't know he was gay. If they knew (unfortunately), he wouldn't be elected. So you tell me, who managed to achieve more?

You don't have to recognize me as an activist. Even if I didn't do anything, it doesn't matter. But I have worked for causes before that did not have anything to do with me, but never did I think anyone owed me for that. Thinking that just because someone is out of the closet is doing me a favor is delusional. But if it makes that person feel better about him/herself, whatever makes him happy. Still, no right to patronize others, like others have already said here.

Offline Since2005

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #118 on: August 05, 2011, 04:18:33 PM »
"Time to call bullshit on you" - This is outright very personal attack to me. LM has acknowledged that he was harsh a bit with Valmont and he accepted the criticism. Whether he is out or in the closet it is his damn personal business as I stated earlier. If you are out and are doing the right things for gays/bi/poz I respect you for that. However, that would in no way or shape give you the right to make him feel lesser (if that’s what he is feeling I assume..). If I had not responded to this now, it would have not been fair to him. Again, for all 'out' guys I have the most respect for you as you have helped made my life easier. Do I owe you anything for that? Absolutely "NO!!" Did you earn my utter respect for that "Damn YES!". As a new member, I have seen so many kindhearted people here who have made me cry for joy for listening what I have to say ( didn’t agree with me but was compassionate and kind...). I want to see the same here repeatedly. We are all this together! If someone says and acknowledge their lacks/ mistakes , we all would have to be able to accept that. My request to you all please lets not continue this fights, we could all have disagreements,  but we all could present that in manner without hurting anyone that is what we all want from this forum. Can we please all just get along?

Offline Joe K

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #119 on: August 05, 2011, 05:29:57 PM »
My request to you all please lets not continue this fights, we could all have disagreements,  but we all could present that in manner without hurting anyone that is what we all want from this forum. Can we please all just get along?

I hate to tell you this, but WE ARE getting along.  Please do not confuse strong personalities or language as lacking in having anything real to say. The reality for most of the members on this forum is that being poz is possible the hardest challenge they have faced. We are a world community here and we have members from all points on the globe. At one time, complete strangers, until we discovered this place, that was started by Peter Staley, a poz man, for poz people. To belong here requires only that you are poz or are sensitive to the struggles that being poz represent.

As much as we might like, being courteous and kind does not always work for all people. Just because a poster speaks strongly or directly does not mean they are not showing compassion. Different people need to hear the same message, in a language that they understand. However the message never changes and I urge you to look past the WAY something is said, to the actual CONTENT or what is being said.

When you concentrate on how something is said, I fear you miss the real message. From what I read, people are suggesting that honesty and openness is the best way to manage your life. That people are solely responsible for their own actions and you have a duty to be honest with anyone you want to be intimately involved with. Another recurring idea is the damage it does to live in the closet about anything. It's very tiring living a lie and the added stress, in the end, is simply not worth it.

Other points were made as well, however my focus is that you can pick and choose what you want to hear, but do you really want us to censure others in what they can say? Some people confuse general comments as personal attacks and other refuse to consider the other point of view. That's what a forum is all about. However, I will leave you with this. I've known some of these folks for ten years and a finer group of people you will not find. We don't always get along, but when the going gets rough, these folks will walk through fire with you.

Offline Joe K

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #120 on: August 05, 2011, 05:43:04 PM »
I just think it's mental to call me dishonest for not telling everyone I meet I'm bisexual. Or HIV+.

What does the above quote have to do with our discussion? That was said by another poster, but what disappoints me most is you referring to their state of mind as "mental." When you start calling people names, it suggests to me that you simply want to argue. When you reference comments made by others, in replies to my comments, that confuses the issues, because you are also having a conversation with another member, by including their comments, in a reply that does not include them.

I am more than happy to discuss real issues, but I insist on fair debating. Name calling has no place, nor does insinuating that there is something inherently wrong with someone, because you don't like what they said or how they said it. Say what you mean and mean what you say. It's fair to tell someone they are rude, it is not acceptable to call them names. I mean really. That's like so 6th grade.

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #121 on: August 05, 2011, 06:19:44 PM »
What does the above quote have to do with our discussion? That was said by another poster, but what disappoints me most is you referring to their state of mind as "mental." When you start calling people names, it suggests to me that you simply want to argue. When you reference comments made by others, in replies to my comments, that confuses the issues, because you are also having a conversation with another member, by including their comments, in a reply that does not include them.

I am more than happy to discuss real issues, but I insist on fair debating. Name calling has no place, nor does insinuating that there is something inherently wrong with someone, because you don't like what they said or how they said it. Say what you mean and mean what you say. It's fair to tell someone they are rude, it is not acceptable to call them names. I mean really. That's like so 6th grade.

I only replied to you. You talked about responsibilities, and I said I do think I should disclose my sexuality to someone I have a relationship with, but it's crazy to think I'm dishonest if I don't disclose it to everyone. That's it.

But please, Joe, with all due respect, but if you wish to talk to me about the use of the word "mental", you should stop first and criticize all the others who have made much worse comments about me. Go on and start counting them. While you have been dealing with me with respect, you have ignored the nasty and aggressive comments this "fine group of people" has made. I didn't see you once criticizing them.

And despite what you think, there ain't no getting along here. From what I've seen, these folks would not walk through fire with you, but just throw you in it if you don't think like them. That's how they have been acting here, and with all fairness, you're just being cool with it. If you don't think or want to tell your friends they are wrong, I'd rather you just stood aside, because the way I've been treated here has been really unfair.

Offline Valmont

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #122 on: August 05, 2011, 06:50:44 PM »
I read your comments very carrefully, even if I did not made any intervention, most of them are very useful.

Well, sure what I told would have generate many kind of reactions, and I understand it.  But not so sure we needed to argue...

Not in all the place it is possible to live as in Europe or North America, and find many open mind people or regulation, particularly about sexual orientation or HIV...

Personally, I don´t definite me a gay person that live in a hidden situation in a marriage.  I am very happy in the marriage and what I should not have done was going after my curiosity...  For me, this was more a curiosity and physical experience than anything else.  Sorry if I may offend any one, but it is my personal way to feel it and I lived it...  I don´t reconocize myself in "queer world" (no sure of how to define it in english language), even if I respect it and I find it very friendly; and also if I´m aware of its important rol in defense for minorities.

There is another open question, why there are so many men in marriage, having sex with other men and living a doble life?  I´m not sure the answers would be the same depending of the place where you´re living the world...  By this question I also try to understand what happened to me and the values I had when I was 20 and I lost on the way...

I´m trying with my docs to convince my wife to be tested but she does not want for now...  This is actually the thing that makes me very worry and anxious, more that any kind of thing...
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Offline Joe K

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #123 on: August 05, 2011, 07:09:28 PM »
I only replied to you. You talked about responsibilities, and I said I do think I should disclose my sexuality to someone I have a relationship with, but it's crazy to think I'm dishonest if I don't disclose it to everyone. That's it.

But please, Joe, with all due respect, but if you wish to talk to me about the use of the word "mental", you should stop first and criticize all the others who have made much worse comments about me. Go on and start counting them. While you have been dealing with me with respect, you have ignored the nasty and aggressive comments this "fine group of people" has made. I didn't see you once criticizing them.

And despite what you think, there ain't no getting along here. From what I've seen, these folks would not walk through fire with you, but just throw you in it if you don't think like them. That's how they have been acting here, and with all fairness, you're just being cool with it. If you don't think or want to tell your friends they are wrong, I'd rather you just stood aside, because the way I've been treated here has been really unfair.

You still don't get it. Just because others criticize you, does not give you the right to call others names. You cannot claim moral superiority when you do the exact same thing. My discussion is with you and I have not called you names, nor attacked you personally. I am not responsible for what others say and if someone offends me, I'll tell they WHY they offended me, but I would never resort to name calling. People are so quick to judgement sometimes and I hope you stay long enough to see who truly resides here.

We are people living with HIV/AIDS and nobody said that life would be easy. Interaction breeds engagement and conflict and if we ever hope to have meaningful discussion it sometimes means checking your ego at the door. No matter how conflicted a thread can become, if you read closely enough, there is always an underlying message that contains more fact than fiction. Everyone can be rude, sometimes intentionally, but often not and I tend to give folks the benefit of the doubt. But what really seals it for me, is these folks not only tell me what I want to hear, they often tell me what I need to here. It may not be pretty, or even kind, but I need friends like these, because you are prejudging folks from one or two threads, and you are very wrong in what you assume is happening to you.

I am not suggesting you have no right to how you feel, only that you are incorrect about the intent.

Offline Ann

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #124 on: August 06, 2011, 07:32:35 AM »
We don't always get along, but when the going gets rough, these folks will walk through fire with you.

Preach, Joe! We've both seen it happen time and time again. That's this forum's strength. We really are like a family, and just like families we don't always agree, but we always have each other's backs.

And despite what you think, there ain't no getting along here. From what I've seen, these folks would not walk through fire with you, but just throw you in it if you don't think like them. That's how they have been acting here, and with all fairness, you're just being cool with it. If you don't think or want to tell your friends they are wrong, I'd rather you just stood aside, because the way I've been treated here has been really unfair.

With all due respect, LM, you've not really been here long enough to make that sort of judgement. Like Joe, I've been here for over ten years and I've witnessed first-hand how much support - and sometimes much needed tough love - goes on around here, despite any incidental bickering. There have even been times where people have gone above and beyond, such as when one member bought another member a new lap-top so she could stay in touch with this forum, the only support available to her.

I've also witnessed many a time when someone was initially offended by the tough love they received, only to come back days, weeks or even months later to say, "thanks, that was what I really needed, even if I didn't want to hear it at the time".

Nobody here is out to get you and I'm quite sure if you found yourself in a jam, someone here would go out of their way to help you - and that person or persons would be very likely to include at least one of the people who you have been offended by.
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Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #125 on: August 06, 2011, 11:27:22 AM »

Basically it boils down to being spineless or not -- so if one lacks a bit of spine maybe it's not a great idea to throw around petty judgements.

I'm just suggesting if you are a closet fag with the butt flu

Are you honestly that daft?

By the way, it's you that seems miserable, unhappy, and dissatisfied with the sexual space you attempt to inhabit.

The truth is the truth and you can not pick and choose how to apply it to appease your guilty conscience about pretending to be some thing you are not . 

You are a bit of a piece of work, aren't you??  you are berating others who you think are "judging you" by screaming that they don't "know you".  What are you doing???  Judging someone whom you don't know.
come down off your fucking high horse and stop projecting your morals, your standards and your "issues" on others.  You almost NEVER interact with anyone on this site without judgment, venom and anger.  Go find a mirror and have a long, hard look darling.......  if it don't break first.

M

I just think it's real easy to wag a finger in disapproval from the shadows of a closet.

But yeah...it is often repulsive to see folks infect others from the DL.  It's also a wee bit repulsive when some stay in their relative safety while others brave the consequences of being honest about who they are.

Kids leap to their deaths.  Staying silent in the shadows isn't a completely victimless endeavor.

I'm just riding you because I think you need to hop down off your Hobby Horse.  You'll got an unwarranted sense of self righteousness going, sweet pea. 

I get just as fatigued watching bisexuals live comfortably on the side while dipping in when it suits them as you do watching some take reckless chances with others' health.  Very often, the two go hand in hand.

And I don't like seeing people who dare to be honest in a place like this get slapped by people who lack that same courage themselves.

I am focused on your take that your dishonesty (withholding information is acceptable, yet just as dishonest as Valmont's -- the consequences may be different, but the dishonesty is EXACTLY the same) is "acceptable" because YOU have decided for OTHERS what they would or would not find "hurtful".  You have taken all choice away from them -- just like Valmont.  Again, I am not comparing potential consequences. 

Joe, since I didn't think you would count them, I just did that. Find me some love and compassion in there. Compassion was only important when I replied to Valmont, when they replied to me you suggest I look for the "underlying message"? Sorry, but the underlying message was judgement about my character and personal attacks. Luckily, I was not the only one who noticed that.

You know, about what you said I didn't even call someone names, I just said I think it's crazy to call someone dishonest for that. I criticized an action, not even a person. I've read you saying before that you had depression and other problems, so if the use of the word "mental" offended you, even if it was not about you, I apologize. Regardless, I gave you a long reply and the best you could do was to reply about one word I used to criticize me, ignoring all the rest.

I'm not asking you to give up your friendships or nothing of the sort. But since you're not critically looking at what they did, I suggest we just end this discussion, also because I'm tired of it.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #126 on: August 06, 2011, 11:36:52 AM »
words

Sounds to me like you need a blowjob.

If you promise not to post any more of this boring shit I promise to establish a fund which may well see you get your knob gobbled.

Drop me a PM if you're up for it. ::)

MtD

Offline Jeff G

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #127 on: August 06, 2011, 11:39:38 AM »
LM...I just love those greatest hits compilations . No one is being nasty to you . I was just pointing out that you are either truthful about who you are as person or not . If you are not then its not a good idea to lecture others about how they choose to live . Your need to be right and never criticized is very telling . If you spent as much time and energy being yourself as you do defending your right to be an incognito gay rights activist we could discuss more pleasant topics .  

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #128 on: August 06, 2011, 11:46:58 AM »
Preach, Joe! We've both seen it happen time and time again. That's this forum's strength. We really are like a family, and just like families we don't always agree, but we always have each other's backs.

With all due respect, LM, you've not really been here long enough to make that sort of judgement. Like Joe, I've been here for over ten years and I've witnessed first-hand how much support - and sometimes much needed tough love - goes on around here, despite any incidental bickering. There have even been times where people have gone above and beyond, such as when one member bought another member a new lap-top so she could stay in touch with this forum, the only support available to her.

I've also witnessed many a time when someone was initially offended by the tough love they received, only to come back days, weeks or even months later to say, "thanks, that was what I really needed, even if I didn't want to hear it at the time".

Nobody here is out to get you and I'm quite sure if you found yourself in a jam, someone here would go out of their way to help you - and that person or persons would be very likely to include at least one of the people who you have been offended by.

Ann, I also suggest you read all I quoted above. I was not judging the whole forum nor everyone here, just what happened now, here, in this thread. And that's the 2nd thread this happened (I can quote from the other thread as well), about the same topic. And this time, it was not even the topic of the thread, it was brought here simply to attack me. So you see, 2nd time, for no reason. I insist: read those quotes, there was no tough love, just personal attacks, trying to patronize me. And you can't say: "oh, but you attacked Valmont...", even if I did (which I didn't, it wasn't a personal attack), it wouldn't justify other attacks. Like I said before: if this is a place only for people who are open to the whole world about their sexuality and HIV status, I'll leave with no complaints. I know it's not your view, nor it is of most here. But it seems a small group of people tends to think this way, that my opinion is worth less than that of others, and if they are going to chase me in different threads over that, I don't see the point.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #129 on: August 06, 2011, 12:11:04 PM »
Ann, I also suggest you read all I quoted above. I was not judging the whole forum nor everyone here, just what happened now, here, in this thread. And that's the 2nd thread this happened (I can quote from the other thread as well), about the same topic. And this time, it was not even the topic of the thread, it was brought here simply to attack me. So you see, 2nd time, for no reason. I insist: read those quotes, there was no tough love, just personal attacks, trying to patronize me. And you can't say: "oh, but you attacked Valmont...", even if I did (which I didn't, it wasn't a personal attack), it wouldn't justify other attacks. Like I said before: if this is a place only for people who are open to the whole world about their sexuality and HIV status, I'll leave with no complaints. I know it's not your view, nor it is of most here. But it seems a small group of people tends to think this way, that my opinion is worth less than that of others, and if they are going to chase me in different threads over that, I don't see the point.

Jesus H. Particular Christ. ::)

How do you actually get out of bed in the morning? Paralysed as you must be by your own self indulgence, you quivering great tit.

You know, there was a time when I used to think physical violence in a same sex relationships was a bad thing but seeing the concentrated drivel that you post I now know that the greatest crime your last boyfriend committed wasn't hitting you.

His real sin is that he didn't hit you hard enough.

MtD >:(


Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #130 on: August 06, 2011, 12:18:07 PM »
There is another open question, why there are so many men in marriage, having sex with other men and living a doble life?  I´m not sure the answers would be the same depending of the place where you´re living the world...  By this question I also try to understand what happened to me and the values I had when I was 20 and I lost on the way...

I´m trying with my docs to convince my wife to be tested but she does not want for now...  This is actually the thing that makes me very worry and anxious, more that any kind of thing...

I think it's like Joe said. If you're not true to yourself, you can't be true to someone else in a relationship. I think many men don't deal well with their bisexuality, never discuss it, so they express it in an unhealthy way, that is, cheating on their wives. I think therapy may be a good way to try to understand these feelings.

LM...I just love those greatest hits compilations . No one is being nasty to you . I was just pointing out that you are either truthful about who you are as person or not . If you are not then its not a good idea to lecture others about how they choose to live . Your need to be right and never criticized is very telling . If you spent as much time and energy being yourself as you do defending your right to be an incognito gay rights activist we could discuss more pleasant topics .  

You see, re-read all you wrote and check how much judgment you're passing on me. You think I'm not truthful to myself and that I think I need to be right and never criticized. The fact is that your personalizing your issues on me. Just on a different thread I was reading what you said about how it was different when you came out, that it was great, whatever. You see, you believe you weren't truthful to yourself until you were openly gay and you think it's the same for me.

I insist: you don't know me, although you try to think you do. I don't have to explain the following to you for myself, but I think you need to read it so you learn how to respect other people's perspectives and not think everyone is like you.

You probably think I run in the shadows, hiding everything I do, where I go, my gestures, everything. And really, that couldn't be farther from the truth. My closest friends know I'm bisexual, so from them I have nothing to hide. The other people don't know me that well, so what information do I owe them? I'm discrete by nature, so it's not like I hold myself when I see a hot man and think "oh, I can't look at him or else people think I'm bisexual!". You probably think that if someone asks me if I'm gay, that I freak out and go "no, I'm straight!! Want a piece of me?!". No one really asks that, but when they do, I just say "what do you care about it?". And then they just assume I'm straight because I go out with girls. Also, some people assume I'm gay because I frequently write and speak about gay rights, but I don't go correcting them, if they want to think I am, it's their problem.

I don't need to expose personal aspects of my life to the rest of society so I know who I am. I save these for the people who matter. If you have a different take on it, good for you, but it works for you, not for the whole world, and you should know that. So you see, I don't have a need to be right, because there is no right way in this, just as there is no wrong way. How ever you decide to express personal aspects of your life is a personal choice. Yet, you and a few others kept saying I was wrong, and of course I won't accept that. It's absurd to judge my character over something like that.

And finally, criticize me all you want, you can see I accepted the criticism for how I dealt with Valmont before. Instead of criticizing me for that, you chose to attack for something completely unrelated. So I'm sorry, but that's the kind of criticism I don't accept well, and yes, people, you included, were very nasty while doing that, as you can see in the "greatest hits".



PS: Oh, and Matty, go find something to play with. I appreciated the offer of the blowjob before, you should have ended there.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #131 on: August 06, 2011, 12:23:33 PM »
blah-de-blah

My doctor says I'm running to fat and that swimming might be in my best interests.

In that spirit, I'm thinking of paddling across the Pacific Ocean, hauling my enormous frame up the continental shelf and tracking you down.

Just so I might have the pleasure of ripping your bladder out and wearing it as a hat.

Y'know, just for something to do.

MtD

« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 12:26:39 PM by Matty the Damned »

Offline Jeff G

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #132 on: August 06, 2011, 12:33:36 PM »
I have heard of asshats but never one made from a bladder ... sounds kinda Eskimo to me .

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #133 on: August 06, 2011, 12:38:26 PM »
My doctor says I'm running to fat and that swimming might be in my best interests.

In that spirit, I'm thinking of paddling across the Pacific Ocean, hauling my enormous frame up the continental shelf and tracking you down.

Just so I might have the pleasure of ripping your bladder out and wearing it as a hat.

Y'know, just for something to do.

MtD



Actually, you would have to cross all the way to other coast and paddle across the Atlantic Ocean. Just some geographical help for you. Right now I find myself in a coastal town, so it might make your job easier. All in all, good luck and have a nice trip.

Offline Joe K

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #134 on: August 06, 2011, 12:39:35 PM »
LM, I'm sorry I have nothing left to offer you, because you are blinded by your rage and indignation. You insist on playing the victim and if you cannot understand how inappropriate it is to call others names, or to argue the substance of what is said, rather than how it is said, then what do you want from us? I take no offense to the word "mental" only in the context in which you used it. FYI, I'm one of the mental health nuts around here and I wear my depression on my sleeve. I do that so others will hopefully realize that here is no shame in mental illness, only the sorrow of not treating it.

I never said you did not receive some harsh comments, I only asked that you look through the actual language, to the content. You cannot read for content, when you are so busy reading, looking for justifications as to why others have no right to say what they feel or think. You could have handled this very differently, by simply acknowledging that there may be some truth in what others have said. However, you choose not to do that and I can't help you. I'm not sure that anyone can. You have allowed your rage to cloud your reason and to me, that is the greatest loss of all.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #135 on: August 06, 2011, 12:50:13 PM »
Actually, you would have to cross all the way to other coast and paddle across the Atlantic Ocean. Just some geographical help for you. Right now I find myself in a coastal town, so it might make your job easier. All in all, good luck and have a nice trip.

Pacific ocean, Atlantic ocean -- how about I just extend my enormous arm of vengeance across time and space to rip both your eyes out so I can shove them down your trousers so that you might watch as I kick the shit out of your prostate?

How will that work for you? Please check in with my Secretary for the Correction of Utter Fuckheads, she's doing a job lot this month.

And whilst we're apportioning blame, how is it that the rest of us are responsible for you being so fucking dumb as to lay an egg of pure AIDS fuck in your own fucking nest?

Explain that to us, oh Great Knower of Things.

MtD
(Who is about to have a massive stroke)

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #136 on: August 06, 2011, 01:06:11 PM »
LM, I'm sorry I have nothing left to offer you, because you are blinded by your rage and indignation. You insist on playing the victim and if you cannot understand how inappropriate it is to call others names, or to argue the substance of what is said, rather than how it is said, then what do you want from us? I take no offense to the word "mental" only in the context in which you used it. FYI, I'm one of the mental health nuts around here and I wear my depression on my sleeve. I do that so others will hopefully realize that here is no shame in mental illness, only the sorrow of not treating it.

I never said you did not receive some harsh comments, I only asked that you look through the actual language, to the content. You cannot read for content, when you are so busy reading, looking for justifications as to why others have no right to say what they feel or think. You could have handled this very differently, by simply acknowledging that there may be some truth in what others have said. However, you choose not to do that and I can't help you. I'm not sure that anyone can. You have allowed your rage to cloud your reason and to me, that is the greatest loss of all.

No rage here, really, but I don't think you are aware of the contradiction you're making. I didn't even call someone names, I criticized a certain opinion. Be it as it may, you criticize me for calling names and ask me to look for the content of the message in which people were calling me names. Like "don't do this, but never mind they are doing it too". You are ignoring this fact. Of course things would have been different if I acknowledged what they said, and that would be accept that I'm a lesser person than they are, that my opinion is no good. The point, as many have already identified, was that my opinion is no good because I'm not out of the closet like them. If you think there was different content, only you, really, and you're free to tell me what that is. But if you think there is some truth in that, then you agree, and like I said, there is no point then.



PS: Matty, didn't really get your last question, I think you got over-excited with your metaphors. Good luck on the stroke, though.

Offline MYSTERY

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #137 on: August 06, 2011, 01:13:18 PM »
I must say at times in this so called "family" I have felt like the RED HEADED STEP CHILD..... ;D
Atheist don't believe in GOD, but GOD believes in them and loves them. Never let the failure of man conflict with your love of GOD.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #138 on: August 06, 2011, 01:15:03 PM »
Of course things would have been different if I acknowledged what they said, and that would be accept that I'm a lesser person than they are, that my opinion is no good.

 The crux of the matter .

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #139 on: August 06, 2011, 01:17:02 PM »
I must say at times in this so called "family" I have felt like the RED HEADED STEP CHILD..... ;D

And just as we we're talking about confessional butt secks! Hai MYSTERY!!! :)

PS: Matty, didn't really get your last question, I think you got over-excited with your metaphors. Good luck on the stroke, though.

Of course you didn't. It was written in fucking English.

That you don't have a have a capable grasp of the language is not something I can easily condemn you for.

But I'll try.

And trying is the word. You try to avoid the point as nimbly as a 13 year old altar boy avoids the bell end of his confessor.

But, as MYSTERY will tell you, you'll always get cornered in the sacristy. So enlighten us, were you born this tedious or did you collect the skill along the way?

MtD

Offline mecch

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #140 on: August 06, 2011, 01:25:23 PM »
I nominate this thread for Train Wreck of the Summer.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline MYSTERY

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #141 on: August 06, 2011, 01:31:55 PM »
I am hear to SAVE it meech. I don't want to loose my title as forum wiping 'boy'....LM might think he is giving me a run for my money.....LMAO!!!!!!.....Just an update on me, I just got done with the AIDS ride and met alot of really nice people along with raising a little money. I really enjoyed talking to many wonderful people with interesting stories. It was a blessing.
Atheist don't believe in GOD, but GOD believes in them and loves them. Never let the failure of man conflict with your love of GOD.

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #142 on: August 06, 2011, 01:33:29 PM »
And just as we we're talking about confessional butt secks! Hai MYSTERY!!! :)

Of course you didn't. It was written in fucking English.

That you don't have a have a capable grasp of the language is not something I can easily condemn you for.

But I'll try.

And trying is the word. You try to avoid the point as nimbly as a 13 year old altar boy avoids the bell end of his confessor.

But, as MYSTERY will tell you, you'll always get cornered in the sacristy. So enlighten us, were you born this tedious or did you collect the skill along the way?

MtD

You know, I wouldn't doubt if I knew more English than you do, you don't seem very educated. But do enlighten me on the point you say I nimbly avoid.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #143 on: August 06, 2011, 01:35:19 PM »
I nominate this thread for Train Wreck of the Summer.

As opposed to the junkyard you so loosely refer to as an apartment? Don't get crushed under your spare chandelier.

I am hear to SAVE it meech. I don't want to loose my title as forum wiping 'boy'....LM might think he is giving me a run for my money.....LMAO!!!!!!.....Just an update on me, I just got done with the AIDS ride and met alot of really nice people along with raising a little money. I really enjoyed talking to many wonderful people with interesting stories. It was a blessing.

Settle down Mary. LM is a far worthier foe than you. Unlike the altar boys you subvert, he takes it like a man.

MtD

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #144 on: August 06, 2011, 01:36:35 PM »
You know, I wouldn't doubt if I knew more English than you do, you don't seem very educated. But do enlighten me on the point you say I nimbly avoid.

Be quiet. I've moved on to monstering the Swiss pervert.

MtD

Offline MYSTERY

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #145 on: August 06, 2011, 01:48:44 PM »
 ;D....Matty you are to much...jajaja!!!
Atheist don't believe in GOD, but GOD believes in them and loves them. Never let the failure of man conflict with your love of GOD.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #146 on: August 06, 2011, 02:03:29 PM »
;D....Matty you are to much...jajaja!!!

Shut your cock holster or I swear you'll truly understand the meaning of the phrase "sorrowful mysteries".

MtD

Offline MYSTERY

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #147 on: August 06, 2011, 02:12:05 PM »
What is a cock holster?...... ??? ???
Atheist don't believe in GOD, but GOD believes in them and loves them. Never let the failure of man conflict with your love of GOD.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #148 on: August 06, 2011, 02:14:20 PM »
What is a cock holster?...... ??? ???

The hole in your head the priest stuck his dick in. Civilised folks call it a mouth.

The other two holes you don't use are called your "ears".

MtD

Offline MYSTERY

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #149 on: August 06, 2011, 02:22:53 PM »
LMAO!!!...Thanks for the info Matty.
Atheist don't believe in GOD, but GOD believes in them and loves them. Never let the failure of man conflict with your love of GOD.

 


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