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Author Topic: bisexual  (Read 20793 times)

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Offline pat46

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bisexual
« on: June 11, 2011, 04:07:32 PM »
as a bi guy i find it extremely difficult to find a woman,while i,m bi i could only love and have a relationship with a female but cant deny my bi side,honesty is the best policy,does anyone male or female face the same obstacle,o what to do? any feedback welcome.patrick ???

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2011, 05:20:07 PM »
Should I assume that what you mean is that you can't find a woman who you can be "open" about your bisexuality and willing to allow you forays into having sex with men during the relationship with said woman? Are these hypothetical women straight? Maybe you need to focus on women that are also bi-sexual.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline mecch

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2011, 07:53:01 PM »
Are you HIV+?
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline anniebc

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2011, 09:16:04 PM »
Are you HIV+?


Why do you need to know this?

He is allowed to post in this forum, HIV or not.

Jan
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Offline pat46

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2011, 12:40:07 PM »
Should I assume that what you mean is that you can't find a woman who you can be "open" about your bisexuality and willing to allow you forays into having sex with men during the relationship with said woman? Are these hypothetical women straight? Maybe you need to focus on women that are also bi-sexual.
thanks miss philicia,the problem is the gatherings-social media are geared towards gay or straight,i wont give up and will continue to put myself out there,cheers for the reply.patrick

Offline next2u

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2011, 01:15:38 PM »
i know of some bi dudes dating chicks that knew their x boyfriends. faghags are a great way to go  ;D

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Offline Ann

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2011, 07:20:35 AM »
Hi Pat, welcome to the forums.

I have to agree with Miss P, maybe you should concentrate on bi women. I'm bi and wouldn't mind dating a bi guy. I haven't really had any trouble dating men who know I'm bi, unlike your experience with women. I suppose that has to do with the whole straight-male fantasy about watching two women together. I have known a woman or two or three who had fantasies about two men together, but either they're few and far between, or most women won't admit to having that particular fantasy.
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline pat46

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2011, 12:40:38 PM »
cheers for the replys,any good dating sites {hiv] geared towards bi.thank you.p

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2011, 12:59:25 PM »
I'm a bi male, and I wouldn't need to go out with men while I'm committed to a woman. But unfortunately, most people have the idea that bissexuals need to go out with both men and women to feel "complete", which is bullshit. Moreover, most women are sexist and think a "true" man would never have sex with another man. So I've had two ex-girlfriends who said they loved me but when I told them that I was bissexual, they broke up with me. I've always felt that, while it is something I don't easily disclose, someone I love, that I make plans with for the future should know what made me what I am. Losing someone I loved because of that hit me pretty hard. Prejudice sucks.

Offline klassykitty

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2011, 10:22:56 PM »
As a straight girl, I never cared if a guy I dated was straight or bi.

I do agree with Miss Philicia and Ann, I think what you want is an open relationship.
 Most guys I know(straight or bi) would be ok with an open relationship,  most straight girls I know would not be ok with an open relationship.

And Ann, I always liked the guy and guy fantasy, I must be in that few and far between group. ;D

 8)

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Offline Betelgeuse

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2011, 10:50:13 PM »
I'm a bi male, and I wouldn't need to go out with men while I'm committed to a woman.

I'm curious - would someone like you rule out being in a committed relationship with a guy?  And if so, you could stay monogamous?
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Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2011, 12:47:28 AM »
I'm curious - would someone like you rule out being in a committed relationship with a guy?  And if so, you could stay monogamous?

Well, I feel more emotionally attracted to women. I've never felt for a man the kind of feeling I've felt for a woman. Perhaps it's an internal block. I've liked one guy a lot, yet not the same. But anyway, with this guy I mentioned, we were in a sort of open relationship, more because he wanted to. And I guess I could stay monogamous for a while, but lacking a strong feeling, I don't think it would last.

Offline mecch

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2011, 03:54:43 AM »
Are you HIV+?


PAT, I asked if you are HIV+ for  a few reasons.  

1) When I was bi in the 80's, very few women wanted anything to do with me when they found out I was bi because they were afraid of HIV. (I was HIV-) I am sure even today women who might consider a Bi guy would also have questions about HIV so be prepared to answer them and still get rejections.   And, if you ARE HIV+, this would narrow the field of potential partners further.
My experience meeting guys who are bi here in Switzerland, for sex only, is that their wives generally don't know their husbands are having sex with men.  In this very forum recently, there was a bi guy who is recently HIV+, with a wife and family, from his sleeping with male lovers and having unprotected sex.   What a mess.   I personally think its better for the partners in these relationships that involve 3 people, at least, to know everything that is on the table and all the risks.

2) I also asked if you are HIV+ because in your few posts here it is neither clear that you are HIV+ nor that you are a person supporting an HIV+ person.  So I guess I was curious why you are posting in the AIDSMED forums.  

Why you want HIV+ people to give advice to you?    

Of course you dont have to answer that question, but contrary to my forum colleague's opinion, I don't think its weird for me to ask.  

Sorry if that question offended you.

« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 04:00:22 AM by mecch »
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Ann

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2011, 03:10:11 PM »

I do agree with Miss Philicia and Ann, I think what you want is an open relationship.


I never said anything about an open relationship. Just because a person is bi does not mean they cannot be committed to one person/one relationship at a time. It's a common misconception about bisexuality but it's just that - a misconception.
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2011, 03:16:55 PM »
The way to look at it is if the OP does want an open, bisexual relationship this should be negotiated in advance with the prospective partner, not sprung on them ad hoc at a later date. Just be up front. Partners in any type of sexual relationship want clarity and honesty.

(I also wasn't meaning to infer that is what the OP wants, but in the interest of clarity if so I'm just saying what I did just there)
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Ann

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2011, 09:32:27 AM »
Partners in any type of sexual relationship want clarity and honesty.

Agreed. Being open - in other words, being clear and honest - is not the same thing as an open relationship. An open relationship refers to a relationship where both partners are free to pursue sexual relationships outside their primary "romantic" relationship, by mutual agreement.

Many people seem to think that if a person is bisexual, they have (or want) to be able to have sexual relationships with members of either sex at all times, even when allegedly in a committed relationship.

This is why many bi people are viewed with suspicion by potential partners. It's thought that the bi person cannot control themselves and will have sex with others behind the partner's back. It isn't any more true of bisexual people than it is of straight or gay people. If being faithful/monogamous is important to a person, they will be faithful/monogamous regardless of their sexual orientation. If they're going to cheat (or want an open relationship), they're going to cheat regardless of their sexual orientation.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2011, 03:26:27 PM »
So true, Ann. I've had to explain that several times, but some people just don't get it, so I came up with a way to explain it. Stupid as it may be, I try to explain it like this:

Imagine you like Italian food, and each restaurant has its charm, its specialty and other particular traits. The same for people who like Japanese food. Now, there are people who like both Italian AND Japanese food. Imagine one of these people finds, for example, an Italian restaurant he really loves and he wants to eat there all the time. Sure, other places are good too, but this is the best. But there is a catch: if he wants to continue eating there, he can't eat in other Italian places nor any Japanese places. Well, he might miss one place or too, but he's having his favorite every day, and he sure ain't going hungry.

So that usually helps people to understand, although it doesn't do much for irrational fears.

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2011, 04:53:14 PM »
LM- you're bound to get tired of eating at the same italian restaurant everyday. And sooner or later you'll crave Japanese.
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline Ann

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2011, 05:23:14 PM »
LM- you're bound to get tired of eating at the same italian restaurant everyday. And sooner or later you'll crave Japanese.

That all depends on how creative the chef is and how many dishes are on offer at that one restaurant - and how many variations of the dishes can be made. And just because you crave Japanese doesn't mean you are going to go out and eat Japanese.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2011, 05:58:24 PM »
That all depends on how creative the chef is and how many dishes are on offer at that one restaurant - and how many variations of the dishes can be made. And just because you crave Japanese doesn't mean you are going to go out and eat Japanese.

spacebarsux, not only what Ann said, but you see, sometimes you are tired of the same Italian food and want to try out another Italian dish that restaurant doesn't make, or doesn't make it that well.

You might think "that's silly, it's different from craving Japanese food, after all, Italian food is all the same, why would you crave for the same thing but somewhere else?"

Well, then why the hell do straight and gay people cheat? And all for what?

So you see, isn't that everyone's dilemma, straight, gay or bi? We are all the same.

Offline Ann

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2011, 08:23:34 PM »
As long as we're on the subject.... ;D

I've been in two memorable three-somes in my life. One was with a bisexual man and a gay man and the other was with another bi woman and a straight guy. Both were a lot of fun and all the activities were evenly spread between the three of us. The incident with the two guys was long before I was poz, but the other was much more recent and they both knew my status, with no problems.

I've also participated in a threesome with a bi-curious woman and a straight guy, but it wasn't nearly as fun or gratifying as all the woman wanted was to be pleasured herself - she didn't take an active role once, not even with her husband. And her husband was more of a letch than anything, he mainly wanted to see me in action on his wife.

I never cared for a repeat performance, even though they still occasionally contact me wanting me to come over for the evening. No thanks. And for the nosy curious, they both know I'm poz and had no problem with the man doing me with a condom. The woman didn't have a problem with my status either, she just wasn't bi-curious enough to reciprocate. Fucking with the man was the best it got for me the whole night, although his technique could use a bit of refinement. I mean, if I wanted to fuck a rabbit, I'd go out and find me a rabbit. ;D

I also had a few threesomes with two straight guys but they were all pretty boring - I had to do all the work and felt more like an object than a participant and none of them cared if I was enjoying myself or not.

To be honest, the hottest out of the lot was the men where one was bi and one was gay. What a night! I'll never forget that particular gem. Luckily we were friends and remained friends, but we never got a chance for a repeat performance, unfortunately.

One of these days I'm going to have to have an all-woman threesome. :)

By the way, none of these threesomes happened when I was in a committed, monogamous relationship. They either happened when I was single, or in a relationship that was open by mutual agreement. I though I'd better clarify that before someone said "told you so, you bisexuals can't keep your knickers on!"

edited to add mysteriously missing words
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 08:27:38 PM by Ann »
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2011, 12:03:38 AM »
I'm sexually much more attracted to guys than gals. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being 100 % straight and 10 being 100% gay, I would probably be a 6 or 7. However, at an emotional level, I find women much more satisfying. When I was dating a girl, I even though I sometimes occasionally missed being with a guy, I was content and never cheated or went astray. However, when i dated guys, even though the sex was much better for me (cos I'm def more sexually attracted to men than women)- after the first few months- I always felt like I wanted to hook up with other guys. If I didn't, the other guy probably would and did go astray.  It also doesn't help that so many gay men have the propensity to be so pretentious and full of themselves that it just gets so tiring after a while. Not to mention, that most gay men, in my opinion, and somehow the really hot ones- are incapable of monogamy.   Ugh- so where does that leave me? Frustrated.
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2011, 12:30:22 AM »
fabulous, let's turn this thread into a "gay men are the problem" thread!
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2011, 12:51:25 AM »
Lol, miss p. Was just relaying my experience. Not some anti-gay rant. I'm gay too. :)   
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2011, 01:27:05 AM »
LM- Where I disagree with you is that the dilemma a bisexual would face is much harder than a straight or gay person. They  would ONLY have a preference for either italian or japanese. Not both. So a talented italian chef could keep them satisfied. But if someone has a preference for BOTH cuisines then, IMO, its only a matter of time before you start craving the other cuisine. whether one acts on their desires or not is where willpower assumes importance. But that doesn't take away the fact that for someone who likes both Pizza and sushi, just pizza would keep them satisfied. However, I do also believe that my description is too black and white- and sexuality is far richer and complex than people think. I guess it all comes down to the 'person' you're in love with and then their gender becomes less relevant? I mean, one hears stories of guys who self-identify as gay for years and years and then fall in love with a woman! Who does that work?
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2011, 01:47:13 AM »
Sorry for typos. Phone is acting up
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline kellybryana

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2011, 04:30:33 AM »
I think I may be of some help here. My boyfriend is bisexual, and I'm a straight female. I think I'm a little more open minded and accepting than your average bear, but we're out there. Anyone who is going to be worth it will just look past sexuality and be loving and accepting of you for who you are, not who you like to have sex with. I think people are innately bisexual. Girls have sex with girls all the time, and its looked at as "hot" but when a guy has sex with another guy, its "gay" (with a negative connotation). I think that's a ridiculous double standard. You need someone who is as open minded as you are. Don't settle for less!
« Last Edit: June 19, 2011, 04:33:54 AM by kellybryana »

Offline Ann

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2011, 09:31:32 AM »
the dilemma a bisexual would face is much harder than a straight or gay person.

This is the misconception. I'm attracted to a person's personality first and foremost - their gender is irrelevant. I do not have a "harder" dilemma choosing between a man and a woman, any more than a straight woman would have a "harder" dilemma choosing between two men or a gay woman choosing between two women.

What the deal is, is this...

it all comes down to the 'person' you're in love with and then their gender becomes less relevant*

*(I wouldn't say "less relevant, I'd say irrelevant.)

and this...

look past sexuality and be loving and accepting of you for who you are, not who you like to have sex with.

and...

I think people are innately bisexual. Girls have sex with girls all the time, and its looked at as "hot" but when a guy has sex with another guy, its "gay" (with a negative connotation). I think that's a ridiculous double standard.

it certainly IS a double standard!
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2011, 09:46:19 AM »
This is the misconception. I'm attracted to a person's personality first and foremost - their gender is irrelevant.

Except I've seen more than a handful of bisexual men, at least on this board, clearly state they only have sex with another man for physical sex, not anything to do with personality and/or emotion. As a gay man, liberated at that for 30 years, it makes me seen like a breathing plastic blow up doll, and is actually somewhat offensive (if I think hard about it that is).

I realize that this message board isn't reflective of overall reality, but it's still a noticeable trend line, and one in my experience is more prevalent on the male side. My assumption has always been that it may be more connected with the social stigma of gay male sex, and is also reflected in how many bisexual men may be bisexual in practice/sexual behavior, but closeted about this facet of their personality in real life, as well as not open about it to their female partner.
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Offline Ann

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2011, 11:01:16 AM »
My assumption has always been that it may be more connected with the social stigma of gay male sex, and is also reflected in how many bisexual men may be bisexual in practice/sexual behavior, but closeted about this facet of their personality in real life, as well as not open about it to their female partner.

I agree about the stigma aspect - and I admit I have to wonder if men like you describe are closer to being gay than bi and use bi as an excuse to have a beard, if you get me, just to fit into their culture and appease their family's expectations of heterosexual marriage and making babies to further the family line.

I think people who are truly bi don't conform to that stereotype, even though it may be foisted upon us - and yes, I do agree that the female bisexual experience is quite different to the male bisexual experience.

I've also noticed a lot more acceptance from straight women than I do lesbians and I think it's similar to what you're (we're) saying.... it's an assumption of being in the closet while actually being gay. To say that you're bi seems to mean, to many people, that you're copping out... trying to find some sort of middle ground where you aim to please everyone.

Gay or bi men who crave anonymous sex - sex just for the sake of sex - are really not much different to straight men who have relationships but yet still seek out the services of sex workers or pick up women in bars for a one-night stand. Men are much more driven by the physicality of the sex act than women are and I believe that's been looked at in studies.

(Am I making sense?)

As Kelly alluded to, I think far more people fall into the range of bisexuality than completed homosexuality or heterosexuality, but society as a whole doesn't understand and often doesn't accept those of us who embrace our bisexuality. It's a flamin' minefield.
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Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2011, 11:58:32 AM »
We all fall somewhere on the kinsey scale. I suspect if it weren't for social conditioning many more bi-curious, bi people would act on their feelings. Here in india, I've come across sooo many guys who identify as straight (and to be fair some of them are not exposed to the western labels of 'gay' and 'straight'). They marry girls have kids and sometimes fool around with guys just to get off- they just see it as a sexual release and something which is just normal but never openly discussed. They can't ever see themselves being romantically involved with another guy though. So maybe social conditioning and cultures may have an influence too-not on desires but on whether people act on them.
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Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2011, 12:07:08 PM »
spacebarsux, when my relationship was not doing well, like most people, I started to crave something else. Initially, I thought like others would think of me, like "aha, you can't be without men!", but then I realized I was also attracted to other girls. And then it hit me: it's hard to be monogamous. While it is better for many reasons, it's not in our sexual nature, whether we are straight, gay or bi.

And then we have the problem of labels.

You see, it's hard being bissexual, because people try to tell you who you are, what you do and what you will do. When I started feeling attracted to men, I thought I was gay. After all, if you like men, you're gay, that's the "rule", nothing else. Even though I never stopped liking women. Then, when I told some gay friends I was bissexual, they said "hm, ok, so when you are coming out as gay?". Finally, when I told an ex-girlfriend, she said "you won't be happy only with me, so I don't wanna be with you anymore". So you see, it's hard, sometimes I get confused with what I am because so many people try to define me. Many people actually don't believe in bissexuality, so how can you be something that others say it doesn't even exist?

I also believe in Kinsey's model, that most people are bissexual, sometimes leaning more towards one side or the other. But cultural aspects define our mindset. I know gay men who have had sex with women, liked it, but consider themselves gay. And many women have had sex with other women before, liked it, but they say they are straight. It's all labels, we are way beyond that.

But what Miss P said is true: many bissexual men lead double lives, having a girlfriend/wife while using men as sex objects. What's worse is that many even have unprotected sex.

I tend to have more sex with men. It's easier and less complicated. At the same, I do feel more emotionally attracted to women. I have always been in the closet about it, especially because I know most girls would just say no if I came out and said I was bissexual, but I would never go into a long-term relationship with a girl and have sex with guys on the side, I always thought that was a terrible thing to do. I was sure that when I felt comfortable to tell a girlfriend, I would, it's part of me, and she should know about it. But when I did open up to my ex-girlfriends about it, they just left.

And you see, it's all connected to me being HIV+ in the end. I was so depressed about all that, the rejection, besides some other problems, that I let my guard down, I had sex with no condoms with a few guys. And here I am.

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2011, 12:17:47 PM »
Lol, LM- you sound like me ;)
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Offline thunter34

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2011, 09:52:24 AM »
Not to mention, that most gay men, in my opinion, and somehow the really hot ones- are incapable of monogamy.   Ugh- so where does that leave me? Frustrated.


(FTR:  I'm bi.  I lean more toward men, though.  I wish that I was even more bi than I am, and I wish everyone else was, too.  Male, female, straight, gay, blah, blah, blahbuddy blah, blah.) 

I just wanted to say that I think monogamy - as this great, grand and supposedly lofty principle - is kind of a crock of bullshit.  Monogamy is a state of being that two people should just kind of happen to be in when and if it just happens to be what they both prefer rather than some psycho-emotional fence people feel like they have to build.  It's really not anything particularly virtuous or superior, at least not to me.

In my opinion, if you want some dick or pussy, go get ya some.  You're here, you only live once, it's beautiful (and I'm almost tempted to say divine, certainly something I consider sacred to me), it's a joy, and if I love you then I want you to have it.

And if you love me, you'll still come running right back.  If you don't, you don't...and no amount of tethers or fences could keep you anyway.
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Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2011, 09:58:23 AM »

And if you love me, you'll still come running right back.  If you don't, you don't...and no amount of tethers or fences could keep you anyway.

Reminds me of what my dad taught me - if two people love each other, there is nothing that is going to keep them apart - and if just one of those people is not in love with the other person, there is nothing that anyone can do to keep the relationship together.
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12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
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Offline Joe K

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2011, 03:06:07 PM »
While I can follow the two tangents presented in this thread, I don't see what being bi has to do with monogamy.  I also don't understand why we are still focusing on what people do in their bedrooms or at the bathhouse.  I am incredibly complex in terms of who I am and what I believe and I am fully capable of having a meaningful relationship, because "we" defined it, as it is "our" relationship.  Stephen and I play as a couple, but otherwise we are monogamous by choice.  This ability to define what is important to us, as a couple and individually, is what keeps us together, because we can adapt as needed.

To me, the idea that anyone, regardless of their sexual orientation, is unable to control their own primal urges is just another excuse, used by cheaters to justify their behavior.  I also think it plays a primary role in how bi people may be judged viewed, because if it's so hard to be true to one sex, let alone one person, then bi's have twice the inclination to become cheaters or whatever.  It just seems to me that there remains so much confusion between sexual attraction and the ability to be committed.  I just don't see any connection.

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2011, 03:39:53 PM »
I agree completely Joe -
I think if someone is a cheater, s/he would be a cheater whether gay/bi/straight.
I also think that the perimeters of a relationship are defined by the parties that are in that relationship.  I remember hearing a minister once say to the attendees of a wedding that "you were invited to the wedding, you weren't invited to the marriage."  Meaning that what two people in a relationship mutually agree to as acceptable in the relationship is their business and no one else's.

Terrance Gorski and Claudia Black define relationships using a house as an analogy.  The foundation of the house consists of the three "Cs" - Communication, Caring and Commitment. And the floors of the house (levels of a relationship) are:
Casual Involvement - relationships where two people interact in a casual manner and have little or no commitment to each other;
Companionship - two persons associating for purposes of sharing a common activity.  The activity is more important than the person and the person becomes interchangeable;
Friendship - two people associate for the purpose of mutual support and enjoyment of each other. The person is more important, the activity is secondary;
Romantic Love - relationsips where friendship is shared with sensuality, passion and sexuality. Romantic love is more than passion and sexuality. Passion and sexuality can be experienced in the context of casual involvement; and
Committed Love - relationships where it is mutually agreed upon what you are going to do and what you say you are going to do.  You agree to work on whatever problems may arise with a mutual trust of sincerity and intent.

While I can follow the two tangents presented in this thread, I don't see what being bi has to do with monogamy.  I also don't understand why we are still focusing on what people do in their bedrooms or at the bathhouse.  I am incredibly complex in terms of who I am and what I believe and I am fully capable of having a meaningful relationship, because "we" defined it, as it is "our" relationship.  Stephen and I play as a couple, but otherwise we are monogamous by choice.  This ability to define what is important to us, as a couple and individually, is what keeps us together, because we can adapt as needed.

To me, the idea that anyone, regardless of their sexual orientation, is unable to control their own primal urges is just another excuse, used by cheaters to justify their behavior.  I also think it plays a primary role in how bi people may be judged viewed, because if it's so hard to be true to one sex, let alone one person, then bi's have twice the inclination to become cheaters or whatever.  It just seems to me that there remains so much confusion between sexual attraction and the ability to be committed.  I just don't see any connection.
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2011, 03:46:57 PM »
I brought up the issue of monogamy and gay men, cos in my experience (and travels)- I've noticed that the two oftentimes do not go hand in hand. Many gay men do make monogamous relationships work and are perfectly happy but I don't think its the norm. This for me is a bit of a problem, and probably has some role to play in me being more emotionally attracted to women. I dunno.   Anyway, since we're on the topic of monogamy- let's say we leave aside the morals of it and let's say we don't get into the whole philosophy of whether human beings are wired to mate like rabbits or be in monogamous relationships. let's say we leave that for a moment. The more pertinent question is do 'open reltionships' work and last? Mine haven't! They have been intense with a lot of love and the rest of it, but after a WHILE jealousies and insecurities inevitably creep in, don't they?? Unless, some people can look past all that and not let it bother them. But then again- for how long??? And then again the whole issue of gay men being in committed reltionships comes up.....
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Offline Joe K

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2011, 05:00:15 PM »
I brought up the issue of monogamy and gay men, cos in my experience (and travels)- I've noticed that the two oftentimes do not go hand in hand. Many gay men do make monogamous relationships work and are perfectly happy but I don't think its the norm. This for me is a bit of a problem, and probably has some role to play in me being more emotionally attracted to women. I dunno.   Anyway, since we're on the topic of monogamy- let's say we leave aside the morals of it and let's say we don't get into the whole philosophy of whether human beings are wired to mate like rabbits or be in monogamous relationships. let's say we leave that for a moment. The more pertinent question is do 'open reltionships' work and last? Mine haven't! They have been intense with a lot of love and the rest of it, but after a WHILE jealousies and insecurities inevitably creep in, don't they?? Unless, some people can look past all that and not let it bother them. But then again- for how long??? And then again the whole issue of gay men being in committed reltionships comes up.....

You ask the question of whether "open relationships" work and last, but I think you are asking the wrong question.  For those open relationships that work and last, I would bet they are based on a solid foundation between the couple, one that can adapt when unwelcome feelings start to invade.  It seems like you are confusing the idea of an "open" relationship, as opposed to what it takes to have a mutually satisfying relationship with someone you love.  The "open" part really has no bearing on why people stay or leave.  People leave relationships for all kinds of reasons and suggesting that because a relationship is "open" is somehow more detrimental to other forms seems unproductive to me.

What other people do is of no matter to me.  If my marriage fails, it will be because "we" both stopped trying and what type of sex relationship we have will have little bearing on that failure.

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2011, 05:35:29 PM »
Hmmmm. Interesting points Joe. In my experience getting into open relationships with guys was like getting on a very slippery slope. In the beginning things were perfect, but then the thought of my partner being sexually intimate with others did get to me. When it didn't bother me, it seemed to bother him. Notwithstanding, how meticulously boundaries were drawn, things never quite 'adapted' and emotions got hurt. I guess my experience colours my views on this.   I guess I've to reconcile myself to the fact that there are more evolved people who do make open reltionships work. Lol. I'm not there yet.
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Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #40 on: June 20, 2011, 05:53:32 PM »
I'm sexually much more attracted to guys than gals. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being 100 % straight and 10 being 100% gay, I would probably be a 6 or 7. However, at an emotional level, I find women much more satisfying. When I was dating a girl, I even though I sometimes occasionally missed being with a guy, I was content and never cheated or went astray. However, when i dated guys, even though the sex was much better for me (cos I'm def more sexually attracted to men than women)- after the first few months- I always felt like I wanted to hook up with other guys. If I didn't, the other guy probably would and did go astray.  It also doesn't help that so many gay men have the propensity to be so pretentious and full of themselves that it just gets so tiring after a while. Not to mention, that most gay men, in my opinion, and somehow the really hot ones- are incapable of monogamy.   Ugh- so where does that leave me? Frustrated.

The more pertinent question is do 'open reltionships' work and last? Mine haven't! They have been intense with a lot of love and the rest of it, but after a WHILE jealousies and insecurities inevitably creep in, don't they?? Unless, some people can look past all that and not let it bother them. But then again- for how long??? And then again the whole issue of gay men being in committed reltionships comes up.....

You identify yourself as gay but you you say gay men are "pretentious and full of themselves" and "incapable of monogamy", although this somehow is correlated with how "hot" they are. You don't believe gay male relationships last and your own relationships with men are plagued by jealousies, insecurities and infidelity. You are more emotionally attracted to women, you find women sexually desireable and say that you have been content in heterosexual relationships and would never stray. You have found monogamy works better for you than open relationships and you value long-term commitments.

If this is the way you feel why are you even bothering with relationships with gay men?

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #41 on: June 20, 2011, 05:59:58 PM »
GSO- I'm a bit messed up really. Can't give a better answer.   
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Offline Joe K

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #42 on: June 20, 2011, 06:37:51 PM »
Hmmmm. Interesting points Joe. In my experience getting into open relationships with guys was like getting on a very slippery slope. In the beginning things were perfect, but then the thought of my partner being sexually intimate with others did get to me. When it didn't bother me, it seemed to bother him. Notwithstanding, how meticulously boundaries were drawn, things never quite 'adapted' and emotions got hurt. I guess my experience colours my views on this.   I guess I've to reconcile myself to the fact that there are more evolved people who do make open reltionships work. Lol. I'm not there yet.

I understand what you are saying, but I am unsure if you do.  Just because some people make a certain type of relationship work, does not mean anything in relation to your own partners.  You are not somehow second rate, or less "evolved" because an open relationship does not work for you.  You are you and you have decided that an open relationship is not for you, so I do not understand what you believe you are missing.  If you want a given relationship, it's up to you to make that happen and I see no benefit in you comparing apples to oranges.

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #43 on: June 20, 2011, 07:01:17 PM »
GSO- I'm a bit messed up really. Can't give a better answer.   

I don't know what resources are available in your area but a gay-friendly therapist could help you sort things out. It has helped me.

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #44 on: June 20, 2011, 08:25:57 PM »
In my case, I don't know, I am more emotionally attracted to women. Sexually, I think I might be more attracted to men, women somehow intimidate me sexually, so I find sex with men less complicated (and as a consequence, more arousing) in many levels. But at the same time, the person I was most attracted to was my ex-girlfriend. So being bi is confusing... while I feel a kind of pride in seeing beauty in both genders, my life would be much easier if I were just straight or just gay.

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2011, 04:56:12 AM »
LM- l do think that we are in roughly the same region on Kinseyís scale. Except in my case, I am definitely more sexually attracted to guys. Men are just so much more delicious (for me) ;). This probably adds to my frustration.

GSOgymrat- I'm unsure if you think Iíve got some homophobic kink in my head. I donít. I feel I must clarify that.  Itís a bit more complicated. I have got disillusioned after my experience with guys on Ďthe sceneí. Iím not going to take back what I feel about many (not all) gay men, in my experience, being vain and pretentious. There seems to be an almost overriding importance placed on youth and beauty in the gay world. This aspect cuts across cultures and was apparent  in almost all the Asian and the Western countries Iíve visited- and so I wonder whether it is something more innate to gays rather than affected by external cultural factors?

What I said about the young and hot guys not being capable of monogamy (obviously there are exceptions)- probably has something to do with the fact that for such people getting sex with whom they desire is never a problem and they tend to get a high on sleeping around (or so it seems). Iíve been there. After a while I just got unhappy.

A lot of the Ďtype' of gay guys I describe are the club-hopping scene- centric guys. Admittedly, I might have been looking in the wrong places.

Recently, there was another thread on the Living-with forums where a lot of people echoed similar sentiments (being poz=Being lonely?) so Iím obviously not an anomaly.

I also find it very discouraging to see a disproportionate number of gay men end up Ďsingleí in their 40ís and upwards. Yeah, there are many single hetero people in their 40ís too, but all of this just feeds my fears of winding up alone.  What happens when you grow old and your looks fade and guys stop checking you out? If one isnít lucky enough to have found someone by then, the prospects look pretty slim. 

I wonder whether my views (and prejudices- we all have some) have any bearing on my connecting better with women at an emotional level. Who knows? Iím not a psychiatrist.

You may think Iím painting  a really one-sided and distorted picture and that my cynical attitude is based on Ďmy limited experiencesí and does not apply for all- which is a fair point. But you gotta admit, there is some truth in what I say. I know many other gay guys who share such views.

Here is an article from the Guardian Newspaper titled- ďWhy do gay men continue to behave like teenagers?Ē I donít agree with a lot of what this author says. But some point he makes are valid. Makes an interesting read in any case.  http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/apr/21/gayrights.comment

Hmmm, I think Iíve digressed from Ďbisexualityí. It now does seem that this thread is turning into Ďgay men are the problem threadí. I admit itís largely my problem though. No more ranting, Miss P.  :)
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Offline bocker3

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2011, 07:44:19 AM »
I also find it very discouraging to see a disproportionate number of gay men end up Ďsingleí in their 40ís and upwards. Yeah, there are many single hetero people in their 40ís too, but all of this just feeds my fears of winding up alone.  What happens when you grow old and your looks fade and guys stop checking you out? If one isnít lucky enough to have found someone by then, the prospects look pretty slim. 

I wonder whether my views (and prejudices- we all have some) have any bearing on my connecting better with women at an emotional level. Who knows? Iím not a psychiatrist.

You may think Iím painting  a really one-sided and distorted picture and that my cynical attitude is based on Ďmy limited experiencesí and does not apply for all- which is a fair point. But you gotta admit, there is some truth in what I say. I know many other gay guys who share such views.

So, let me get this right.....  You are concerned that so many gay men end up single in their 40's -- you worry that you will end up single in your 40's.  You think most gay men are vain and pretentious?  What are you??  How about dating those single men in their 40's? Either now or when you are older, if still single?  Where is the vain and pretentious people -- perhaps the mirrior will tell all.

The problem, IMO, in all these threads lamenting lonlieness is that people (gay, straight or bi) have this Hollywood notion of falling in love.  As Joe has pointed out -- it takes a lot of work to build and maintain a relationship.  It can take alot of "shopping" around to find the right one.  Stop worrying about all the ones that aren't right and just go out and interact with others.  Don't go on a date with the idea of "can we build a life together" -- go out and try to become friends.  If you don't like the men in the clubs you are frequenting -- STOP GOING TO THE CLUBS in hopes of meeting Mr. Right.

It's a cliche, I know, but when you are looking for love, you rarely find it.  I met my partner at an AA event -- we went out for coffee, we talked, our first date was at an amusement park.  We had sex for the first time after our 4th date -- we knew each other a little bit first (not that there is anything wrong with casual hook ups -- god knows I've had my fair share -- just dont' expect marriage to come from it).  This Aug. we will celebrate 21 yrs together. 

So.......  the old saying may apply -- if you keeping doing what you've always done -- you will keep getting what you've always gotten.

Mike
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Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2011, 11:22:17 PM »
spacebarsux, so what do you think, do you think you could be monogamous with a woman? What about with a man?

Offline next2u

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2011, 01:07:22 AM »
i'm guilty...just not as bad. while on some sites i list myself as bicurious i definitely like the man meat (im curious about the pussy -- occasionally). im not opposed to having sex with women, i just haven't gone all the way with one yet. i've been in a few threesomes with both sexes and they were really fun. each time i wanted to fuck the chick but it just didnt work out. btw, this was before i was poz.

im also very attracted to lesbians. i actually hit on one this weekend and her girlfriend got jealous. lol, here i am at a gay bar trying to pick up on a butch dyke :)

anyhow, im curious about sex with a woman. it just has to be in a certain setting, like with another guy there or they have to be a little on the butch side. btw, if i found a good girl and things worked out i'd like to think i could settle down with her. and yes, good girl is open to interpretation  :P

best,
d

funny thing - im kinda embarrassed to post this...i considered not posting this many times. its like i feel like if i talk about any attraction towards the opposite sex people will either ridicule me or push me towards that. i say all good things in their time.
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline spacebarsux

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  • Survival of the Fittest
Re: bisexual
« Reply #49 on: June 22, 2011, 04:52:02 AM »
LM, yes, i have been monogamous with a woman, although the relationship lasted only about a year. Hmm... can't really say if I could totally block out my 'gay side' and be monogamous with a woman forever. In all likelihood, I won't be able to do that. Actually, most certainly not. And that is why I still identify as gay.

So the solution is to find a guy I connect with both on sexual and emotional wave-lengths. I probably have been looking for the wrong things in the wrong places. Maybe it has a lot to do with the fact that I viewed/view myself being gay more at a 'sexual' than at an emotional level and thus attracting guys who also thought similarly.

The outcome in the long-run was hurt emotions after a lot of great sex.

So you see, my bi tendencies (or whatever you want to call it) presents a real dilemma for me- which is why I said that if one likes both Italian and Japanese food. One can't be content with just one.

You reckon you could be 100% monogamous with a man? or a woman ?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 04:57:51 AM by spacebarsux »
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

 


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