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Author Topic: bisexual  (Read 18230 times)

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Offline pat46

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bisexual
« on: June 11, 2011, 04:07:32 PM »
as a bi guy i find it extremely difficult to find a woman,while i,m bi i could only love and have a relationship with a female but cant deny my bi side,honesty is the best policy,does anyone male or female face the same obstacle,o what to do? any feedback welcome.patrick ???

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2011, 05:20:07 PM »
Should I assume that what you mean is that you can't find a woman who you can be "open" about your bisexuality and willing to allow you forays into having sex with men during the relationship with said woman? Are these hypothetical women straight? Maybe you need to focus on women that are also bi-sexual.
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Offline mecch

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2011, 07:53:01 PM »
Are you HIV+?
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline anniebc

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2011, 09:16:04 PM »
Are you HIV+?


Why do you need to know this?

He is allowed to post in this forum, HIV or not.

Jan
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Offline pat46

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2011, 12:40:07 PM »
Should I assume that what you mean is that you can't find a woman who you can be "open" about your bisexuality and willing to allow you forays into having sex with men during the relationship with said woman? Are these hypothetical women straight? Maybe you need to focus on women that are also bi-sexual.
thanks miss philicia,the problem is the gatherings-social media are geared towards gay or straight,i wont give up and will continue to put myself out there,cheers for the reply.patrick

Offline next2u

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2011, 01:15:38 PM »
i know of some bi dudes dating chicks that knew their x boyfriends. faghags are a great way to go  ;D

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Offline Ann

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2011, 07:20:35 AM »
Hi Pat, welcome to the forums.

I have to agree with Miss P, maybe you should concentrate on bi women. I'm bi and wouldn't mind dating a bi guy. I haven't really had any trouble dating men who know I'm bi, unlike your experience with women. I suppose that has to do with the whole straight-male fantasy about watching two women together. I have known a woman or two or three who had fantasies about two men together, but either they're few and far between, or most women won't admit to having that particular fantasy.
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

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HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline pat46

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2011, 12:40:38 PM »
cheers for the replys,any good dating sites {hiv] geared towards bi.thank you.p

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2011, 12:59:25 PM »
I'm a bi male, and I wouldn't need to go out with men while I'm committed to a woman. But unfortunately, most people have the idea that bissexuals need to go out with both men and women to feel "complete", which is bullshit. Moreover, most women are sexist and think a "true" man would never have sex with another man. So I've had two ex-girlfriends who said they loved me but when I told them that I was bissexual, they broke up with me. I've always felt that, while it is something I don't easily disclose, someone I love, that I make plans with for the future should know what made me what I am. Losing someone I loved because of that hit me pretty hard. Prejudice sucks.

Offline klassykitty

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2011, 10:22:56 PM »
As a straight girl, I never cared if a guy I dated was straight or bi.

I do agree with Miss Philicia and Ann, I think what you want is an open relationship.
 Most guys I know(straight or bi) would be ok with an open relationship,  most straight girls I know would not be ok with an open relationship.

And Ann, I always liked the guy and guy fantasy, I must be in that few and far between group. ;D

 8)

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Offline Betelgeuse

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2011, 10:50:13 PM »
I'm a bi male, and I wouldn't need to go out with men while I'm committed to a woman.

I'm curious - would someone like you rule out being in a committed relationship with a guy?  And if so, you could stay monogamous?
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Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2011, 12:47:28 AM »
I'm curious - would someone like you rule out being in a committed relationship with a guy?  And if so, you could stay monogamous?

Well, I feel more emotionally attracted to women. I've never felt for a man the kind of feeling I've felt for a woman. Perhaps it's an internal block. I've liked one guy a lot, yet not the same. But anyway, with this guy I mentioned, we were in a sort of open relationship, more because he wanted to. And I guess I could stay monogamous for a while, but lacking a strong feeling, I don't think it would last.

Offline mecch

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2011, 03:54:43 AM »
Are you HIV+?


PAT, I asked if you are HIV+ for  a few reasons.  

1) When I was bi in the 80's, very few women wanted anything to do with me when they found out I was bi because they were afraid of HIV. (I was HIV-) I am sure even today women who might consider a Bi guy would also have questions about HIV so be prepared to answer them and still get rejections.   And, if you ARE HIV+, this would narrow the field of potential partners further.
My experience meeting guys who are bi here in Switzerland, for sex only, is that their wives generally don't know their husbands are having sex with men.  In this very forum recently, there was a bi guy who is recently HIV+, with a wife and family, from his sleeping with male lovers and having unprotected sex.   What a mess.   I personally think its better for the partners in these relationships that involve 3 people, at least, to know everything that is on the table and all the risks.

2) I also asked if you are HIV+ because in your few posts here it is neither clear that you are HIV+ nor that you are a person supporting an HIV+ person.  So I guess I was curious why you are posting in the AIDSMED forums.  

Why you want HIV+ people to give advice to you?    

Of course you dont have to answer that question, but contrary to my forum colleague's opinion, I don't think its weird for me to ask.  

Sorry if that question offended you.

« Last Edit: June 17, 2011, 04:00:22 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Ann

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2011, 03:10:11 PM »

I do agree with Miss Philicia and Ann, I think what you want is an open relationship.


I never said anything about an open relationship. Just because a person is bi does not mean they cannot be committed to one person/one relationship at a time. It's a common misconception about bisexuality but it's just that - a misconception.
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2011, 03:16:55 PM »
The way to look at it is if the OP does want an open, bisexual relationship this should be negotiated in advance with the prospective partner, not sprung on them ad hoc at a later date. Just be up front. Partners in any type of sexual relationship want clarity and honesty.

(I also wasn't meaning to infer that is what the OP wants, but in the interest of clarity if so I'm just saying what I did just there)
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Ann

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2011, 09:32:27 AM »
Partners in any type of sexual relationship want clarity and honesty.

Agreed. Being open - in other words, being clear and honest - is not the same thing as an open relationship. An open relationship refers to a relationship where both partners are free to pursue sexual relationships outside their primary "romantic" relationship, by mutual agreement.

Many people seem to think that if a person is bisexual, they have (or want) to be able to have sexual relationships with members of either sex at all times, even when allegedly in a committed relationship.

This is why many bi people are viewed with suspicion by potential partners. It's thought that the bi person cannot control themselves and will have sex with others behind the partner's back. It isn't any more true of bisexual people than it is of straight or gay people. If being faithful/monogamous is important to a person, they will be faithful/monogamous regardless of their sexual orientation. If they're going to cheat (or want an open relationship), they're going to cheat regardless of their sexual orientation.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2011, 03:26:27 PM »
So true, Ann. I've had to explain that several times, but some people just don't get it, so I came up with a way to explain it. Stupid as it may be, I try to explain it like this:

Imagine you like Italian food, and each restaurant has its charm, its specialty and other particular traits. The same for people who like Japanese food. Now, there are people who like both Italian AND Japanese food. Imagine one of these people finds, for example, an Italian restaurant he really loves and he wants to eat there all the time. Sure, other places are good too, but this is the best. But there is a catch: if he wants to continue eating there, he can't eat in other Italian places nor any Japanese places. Well, he might miss one place or too, but he's having his favorite every day, and he sure ain't going hungry.

So that usually helps people to understand, although it doesn't do much for irrational fears.

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2011, 04:53:14 PM »
LM- you're bound to get tired of eating at the same italian restaurant everyday. And sooner or later you'll crave Japanese.
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline Ann

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2011, 05:23:14 PM »
LM- you're bound to get tired of eating at the same italian restaurant everyday. And sooner or later you'll crave Japanese.

That all depends on how creative the chef is and how many dishes are on offer at that one restaurant - and how many variations of the dishes can be made. And just because you crave Japanese doesn't mean you are going to go out and eat Japanese.
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #19 on: June 18, 2011, 05:58:24 PM »
That all depends on how creative the chef is and how many dishes are on offer at that one restaurant - and how many variations of the dishes can be made. And just because you crave Japanese doesn't mean you are going to go out and eat Japanese.

spacebarsux, not only what Ann said, but you see, sometimes you are tired of the same Italian food and want to try out another Italian dish that restaurant doesn't make, or doesn't make it that well.

You might think "that's silly, it's different from craving Japanese food, after all, Italian food is all the same, why would you crave for the same thing but somewhere else?"

Well, then why the hell do straight and gay people cheat? And all for what?

So you see, isn't that everyone's dilemma, straight, gay or bi? We are all the same.

Offline Ann

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2011, 08:23:34 PM »
As long as we're on the subject.... ;D

I've been in two memorable three-somes in my life. One was with a bisexual man and a gay man and the other was with another bi woman and a straight guy. Both were a lot of fun and all the activities were evenly spread between the three of us. The incident with the two guys was long before I was poz, but the other was much more recent and they both knew my status, with no problems.

I've also participated in a threesome with a bi-curious woman and a straight guy, but it wasn't nearly as fun or gratifying as all the woman wanted was to be pleasured herself - she didn't take an active role once, not even with her husband. And her husband was more of a letch than anything, he mainly wanted to see me in action on his wife.

I never cared for a repeat performance, even though they still occasionally contact me wanting me to come over for the evening. No thanks. And for the nosy curious, they both know I'm poz and had no problem with the man doing me with a condom. The woman didn't have a problem with my status either, she just wasn't bi-curious enough to reciprocate. Fucking with the man was the best it got for me the whole night, although his technique could use a bit of refinement. I mean, if I wanted to fuck a rabbit, I'd go out and find me a rabbit. ;D

I also had a few threesomes with two straight guys but they were all pretty boring - I had to do all the work and felt more like an object than a participant and none of them cared if I was enjoying myself or not.

To be honest, the hottest out of the lot was the men where one was bi and one was gay. What a night! I'll never forget that particular gem. Luckily we were friends and remained friends, but we never got a chance for a repeat performance, unfortunately.

One of these days I'm going to have to have an all-woman threesome. :)

By the way, none of these threesomes happened when I was in a committed, monogamous relationship. They either happened when I was single, or in a relationship that was open by mutual agreement. I though I'd better clarify that before someone said "told you so, you bisexuals can't keep your knickers on!"

edited to add mysteriously missing words
« Last Edit: June 18, 2011, 08:27:38 PM by Ann »
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2011, 12:03:38 AM »
I'm sexually much more attracted to guys than gals. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being 100 % straight and 10 being 100% gay, I would probably be a 6 or 7. However, at an emotional level, I find women much more satisfying. When I was dating a girl, I even though I sometimes occasionally missed being with a guy, I was content and never cheated or went astray. However, when i dated guys, even though the sex was much better for me (cos I'm def more sexually attracted to men than women)- after the first few months- I always felt like I wanted to hook up with other guys. If I didn't, the other guy probably would and did go astray.  It also doesn't help that so many gay men have the propensity to be so pretentious and full of themselves that it just gets so tiring after a while. Not to mention, that most gay men, in my opinion, and somehow the really hot ones- are incapable of monogamy.   Ugh- so where does that leave me? Frustrated.
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2011, 12:30:22 AM »
fabulous, let's turn this thread into a "gay men are the problem" thread!
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Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2011, 12:51:25 AM »
Lol, miss p. Was just relaying my experience. Not some anti-gay rant. I'm gay too. :)   
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2011, 01:27:05 AM »
LM- Where I disagree with you is that the dilemma a bisexual would face is much harder than a straight or gay person. They  would ONLY have a preference for either italian or japanese. Not both. So a talented italian chef could keep them satisfied. But if someone has a preference for BOTH cuisines then, IMO, its only a matter of time before you start craving the other cuisine. whether one acts on their desires or not is where willpower assumes importance. But that doesn't take away the fact that for someone who likes both Pizza and sushi, just pizza would keep them satisfied. However, I do also believe that my description is too black and white- and sexuality is far richer and complex than people think. I guess it all comes down to the 'person' you're in love with and then their gender becomes less relevant? I mean, one hears stories of guys who self-identify as gay for years and years and then fall in love with a woman! Who does that work?
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2011, 01:47:13 AM »
Sorry for typos. Phone is acting up
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline kellybryana

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2011, 04:30:33 AM »
I think I may be of some help here. My boyfriend is bisexual, and I'm a straight female. I think I'm a little more open minded and accepting than your average bear, but we're out there. Anyone who is going to be worth it will just look past sexuality and be loving and accepting of you for who you are, not who you like to have sex with. I think people are innately bisexual. Girls have sex with girls all the time, and its looked at as "hot" but when a guy has sex with another guy, its "gay" (with a negative connotation). I think that's a ridiculous double standard. You need someone who is as open minded as you are. Don't settle for less!
« Last Edit: June 19, 2011, 04:33:54 AM by kellybryana »

Offline Ann

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2011, 09:31:32 AM »
the dilemma a bisexual would face is much harder than a straight or gay person.

This is the misconception. I'm attracted to a person's personality first and foremost - their gender is irrelevant. I do not have a "harder" dilemma choosing between a man and a woman, any more than a straight woman would have a "harder" dilemma choosing between two men or a gay woman choosing between two women.

What the deal is, is this...

it all comes down to the 'person' you're in love with and then their gender becomes less relevant*

*(I wouldn't say "less relevant, I'd say irrelevant.)

and this...

look past sexuality and be loving and accepting of you for who you are, not who you like to have sex with.

and...

I think people are innately bisexual. Girls have sex with girls all the time, and its looked at as "hot" but when a guy has sex with another guy, its "gay" (with a negative connotation). I think that's a ridiculous double standard.

it certainly IS a double standard!
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2011, 09:46:19 AM »
This is the misconception. I'm attracted to a person's personality first and foremost - their gender is irrelevant.

Except I've seen more than a handful of bisexual men, at least on this board, clearly state they only have sex with another man for physical sex, not anything to do with personality and/or emotion. As a gay man, liberated at that for 30 years, it makes me seen like a breathing plastic blow up doll, and is actually somewhat offensive (if I think hard about it that is).

I realize that this message board isn't reflective of overall reality, but it's still a noticeable trend line, and one in my experience is more prevalent on the male side. My assumption has always been that it may be more connected with the social stigma of gay male sex, and is also reflected in how many bisexual men may be bisexual in practice/sexual behavior, but closeted about this facet of their personality in real life, as well as not open about it to their female partner.
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Offline Ann

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2011, 11:01:16 AM »
My assumption has always been that it may be more connected with the social stigma of gay male sex, and is also reflected in how many bisexual men may be bisexual in practice/sexual behavior, but closeted about this facet of their personality in real life, as well as not open about it to their female partner.

I agree about the stigma aspect - and I admit I have to wonder if men like you describe are closer to being gay than bi and use bi as an excuse to have a beard, if you get me, just to fit into their culture and appease their family's expectations of heterosexual marriage and making babies to further the family line.

I think people who are truly bi don't conform to that stereotype, even though it may be foisted upon us - and yes, I do agree that the female bisexual experience is quite different to the male bisexual experience.

I've also noticed a lot more acceptance from straight women than I do lesbians and I think it's similar to what you're (we're) saying.... it's an assumption of being in the closet while actually being gay. To say that you're bi seems to mean, to many people, that you're copping out... trying to find some sort of middle ground where you aim to please everyone.

Gay or bi men who crave anonymous sex - sex just for the sake of sex - are really not much different to straight men who have relationships but yet still seek out the services of sex workers or pick up women in bars for a one-night stand. Men are much more driven by the physicality of the sex act than women are and I believe that's been looked at in studies.

(Am I making sense?)

As Kelly alluded to, I think far more people fall into the range of bisexuality than completed homosexuality or heterosexuality, but society as a whole doesn't understand and often doesn't accept those of us who embrace our bisexuality. It's a flamin' minefield.
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Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2011, 11:58:32 AM »
We all fall somewhere on the kinsey scale. I suspect if it weren't for social conditioning many more bi-curious, bi people would act on their feelings. Here in india, I've come across sooo many guys who identify as straight (and to be fair some of them are not exposed to the western labels of 'gay' and 'straight'). They marry girls have kids and sometimes fool around with guys just to get off- they just see it as a sexual release and something which is just normal but never openly discussed. They can't ever see themselves being romantically involved with another guy though. So maybe social conditioning and cultures may have an influence too-not on desires but on whether people act on them.
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Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2011, 12:07:08 PM »
spacebarsux, when my relationship was not doing well, like most people, I started to crave something else. Initially, I thought like others would think of me, like "aha, you can't be without men!", but then I realized I was also attracted to other girls. And then it hit me: it's hard to be monogamous. While it is better for many reasons, it's not in our sexual nature, whether we are straight, gay or bi.

And then we have the problem of labels.

You see, it's hard being bissexual, because people try to tell you who you are, what you do and what you will do. When I started feeling attracted to men, I thought I was gay. After all, if you like men, you're gay, that's the "rule", nothing else. Even though I never stopped liking women. Then, when I told some gay friends I was bissexual, they said "hm, ok, so when you are coming out as gay?". Finally, when I told an ex-girlfriend, she said "you won't be happy only with me, so I don't wanna be with you anymore". So you see, it's hard, sometimes I get confused with what I am because so many people try to define me. Many people actually don't believe in bissexuality, so how can you be something that others say it doesn't even exist?

I also believe in Kinsey's model, that most people are bissexual, sometimes leaning more towards one side or the other. But cultural aspects define our mindset. I know gay men who have had sex with women, liked it, but consider themselves gay. And many women have had sex with other women before, liked it, but they say they are straight. It's all labels, we are way beyond that.

But what Miss P said is true: many bissexual men lead double lives, having a girlfriend/wife while using men as sex objects. What's worse is that many even have unprotected sex.

I tend to have more sex with men. It's easier and less complicated. At the same, I do feel more emotionally attracted to women. I have always been in the closet about it, especially because I know most girls would just say no if I came out and said I was bissexual, but I would never go into a long-term relationship with a girl and have sex with guys on the side, I always thought that was a terrible thing to do. I was sure that when I felt comfortable to tell a girlfriend, I would, it's part of me, and she should know about it. But when I did open up to my ex-girlfriends about it, they just left.

And you see, it's all connected to me being HIV+ in the end. I was so depressed about all that, the rejection, besides some other problems, that I let my guard down, I had sex with no condoms with a few guys. And here I am.

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2011, 12:17:47 PM »
Lol, LM- you sound like me ;)
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Offline thunter34

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2011, 09:52:24 AM »
Not to mention, that most gay men, in my opinion, and somehow the really hot ones- are incapable of monogamy.   Ugh- so where does that leave me? Frustrated.


(FTR:  I'm bi.  I lean more toward men, though.  I wish that I was even more bi than I am, and I wish everyone else was, too.  Male, female, straight, gay, blah, blah, blahbuddy blah, blah.) 

I just wanted to say that I think monogamy - as this great, grand and supposedly lofty principle - is kind of a crock of bullshit.  Monogamy is a state of being that two people should just kind of happen to be in when and if it just happens to be what they both prefer rather than some psycho-emotional fence people feel like they have to build.  It's really not anything particularly virtuous or superior, at least not to me.

In my opinion, if you want some dick or pussy, go get ya some.  You're here, you only live once, it's beautiful (and I'm almost tempted to say divine, certainly something I consider sacred to me), it's a joy, and if I love you then I want you to have it.

And if you love me, you'll still come running right back.  If you don't, you don't...and no amount of tethers or fences could keep you anyway.
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Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2011, 09:58:23 AM »

And if you love me, you'll still come running right back.  If you don't, you don't...and no amount of tethers or fences could keep you anyway.

Reminds me of what my dad taught me - if two people love each other, there is nothing that is going to keep them apart - and if just one of those people is not in love with the other person, there is nothing that anyone can do to keep the relationship together.
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Online Joe K

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2011, 03:06:07 PM »
While I can follow the two tangents presented in this thread, I don't see what being bi has to do with monogamy.  I also don't understand why we are still focusing on what people do in their bedrooms or at the bathhouse.  I am incredibly complex in terms of who I am and what I believe and I am fully capable of having a meaningful relationship, because "we" defined it, as it is "our" relationship.  Stephen and I play as a couple, but otherwise we are monogamous by choice.  This ability to define what is important to us, as a couple and individually, is what keeps us together, because we can adapt as needed.

To me, the idea that anyone, regardless of their sexual orientation, is unable to control their own primal urges is just another excuse, used by cheaters to justify their behavior.  I also think it plays a primary role in how bi people may be judged viewed, because if it's so hard to be true to one sex, let alone one person, then bi's have twice the inclination to become cheaters or whatever.  It just seems to me that there remains so much confusion between sexual attraction and the ability to be committed.  I just don't see any connection.

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2011, 03:39:53 PM »
I agree completely Joe -
I think if someone is a cheater, s/he would be a cheater whether gay/bi/straight.
I also think that the perimeters of a relationship are defined by the parties that are in that relationship.  I remember hearing a minister once say to the attendees of a wedding that "you were invited to the wedding, you weren't invited to the marriage."  Meaning that what two people in a relationship mutually agree to as acceptable in the relationship is their business and no one else's.

Terrance Gorski and Claudia Black define relationships using a house as an analogy.  The foundation of the house consists of the three "Cs" - Communication, Caring and Commitment. And the floors of the house (levels of a relationship) are:
Casual Involvement - relationships where two people interact in a casual manner and have little or no commitment to each other;
Companionship - two persons associating for purposes of sharing a common activity.  The activity is more important than the person and the person becomes interchangeable;
Friendship - two people associate for the purpose of mutual support and enjoyment of each other. The person is more important, the activity is secondary;
Romantic Love - relationsips where friendship is shared with sensuality, passion and sexuality. Romantic love is more than passion and sexuality. Passion and sexuality can be experienced in the context of casual involvement; and
Committed Love - relationships where it is mutually agreed upon what you are going to do and what you say you are going to do.  You agree to work on whatever problems may arise with a mutual trust of sincerity and intent.

While I can follow the two tangents presented in this thread, I don't see what being bi has to do with monogamy.  I also don't understand why we are still focusing on what people do in their bedrooms or at the bathhouse.  I am incredibly complex in terms of who I am and what I believe and I am fully capable of having a meaningful relationship, because "we" defined it, as it is "our" relationship.  Stephen and I play as a couple, but otherwise we are monogamous by choice.  This ability to define what is important to us, as a couple and individually, is what keeps us together, because we can adapt as needed.

To me, the idea that anyone, regardless of their sexual orientation, is unable to control their own primal urges is just another excuse, used by cheaters to justify their behavior.  I also think it plays a primary role in how bi people may be judged viewed, because if it's so hard to be true to one sex, let alone one person, then bi's have twice the inclination to become cheaters or whatever.  It just seems to me that there remains so much confusion between sexual attraction and the ability to be committed.  I just don't see any connection.
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Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
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Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2011, 03:46:57 PM »
I brought up the issue of monogamy and gay men, cos in my experience (and travels)- I've noticed that the two oftentimes do not go hand in hand. Many gay men do make monogamous relationships work and are perfectly happy but I don't think its the norm. This for me is a bit of a problem, and probably has some role to play in me being more emotionally attracted to women. I dunno.   Anyway, since we're on the topic of monogamy- let's say we leave aside the morals of it and let's say we don't get into the whole philosophy of whether human beings are wired to mate like rabbits or be in monogamous relationships. let's say we leave that for a moment. The more pertinent question is do 'open reltionships' work and last? Mine haven't! They have been intense with a lot of love and the rest of it, but after a WHILE jealousies and insecurities inevitably creep in, don't they?? Unless, some people can look past all that and not let it bother them. But then again- for how long??? And then again the whole issue of gay men being in committed reltionships comes up.....
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Online Joe K

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #38 on: June 20, 2011, 05:00:15 PM »
I brought up the issue of monogamy and gay men, cos in my experience (and travels)- I've noticed that the two oftentimes do not go hand in hand. Many gay men do make monogamous relationships work and are perfectly happy but I don't think its the norm. This for me is a bit of a problem, and probably has some role to play in me being more emotionally attracted to women. I dunno.   Anyway, since we're on the topic of monogamy- let's say we leave aside the morals of it and let's say we don't get into the whole philosophy of whether human beings are wired to mate like rabbits or be in monogamous relationships. let's say we leave that for a moment. The more pertinent question is do 'open reltionships' work and last? Mine haven't! They have been intense with a lot of love and the rest of it, but after a WHILE jealousies and insecurities inevitably creep in, don't they?? Unless, some people can look past all that and not let it bother them. But then again- for how long??? And then again the whole issue of gay men being in committed reltionships comes up.....

You ask the question of whether "open relationships" work and last, but I think you are asking the wrong question.  For those open relationships that work and last, I would bet they are based on a solid foundation between the couple, one that can adapt when unwelcome feelings start to invade.  It seems like you are confusing the idea of an "open" relationship, as opposed to what it takes to have a mutually satisfying relationship with someone you love.  The "open" part really has no bearing on why people stay or leave.  People leave relationships for all kinds of reasons and suggesting that because a relationship is "open" is somehow more detrimental to other forms seems unproductive to me.

What other people do is of no matter to me.  If my marriage fails, it will be because "we" both stopped trying and what type of sex relationship we have will have little bearing on that failure.

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2011, 05:35:29 PM »
Hmmmm. Interesting points Joe. In my experience getting into open relationships with guys was like getting on a very slippery slope. In the beginning things were perfect, but then the thought of my partner being sexually intimate with others did get to me. When it didn't bother me, it seemed to bother him. Notwithstanding, how meticulously boundaries were drawn, things never quite 'adapted' and emotions got hurt. I guess my experience colours my views on this.   I guess I've to reconcile myself to the fact that there are more evolved people who do make open reltionships work. Lol. I'm not there yet.
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Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #40 on: June 20, 2011, 05:53:32 PM »
I'm sexually much more attracted to guys than gals. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being 100 % straight and 10 being 100% gay, I would probably be a 6 or 7. However, at an emotional level, I find women much more satisfying. When I was dating a girl, I even though I sometimes occasionally missed being with a guy, I was content and never cheated or went astray. However, when i dated guys, even though the sex was much better for me (cos I'm def more sexually attracted to men than women)- after the first few months- I always felt like I wanted to hook up with other guys. If I didn't, the other guy probably would and did go astray.  It also doesn't help that so many gay men have the propensity to be so pretentious and full of themselves that it just gets so tiring after a while. Not to mention, that most gay men, in my opinion, and somehow the really hot ones- are incapable of monogamy.   Ugh- so where does that leave me? Frustrated.

The more pertinent question is do 'open reltionships' work and last? Mine haven't! They have been intense with a lot of love and the rest of it, but after a WHILE jealousies and insecurities inevitably creep in, don't they?? Unless, some people can look past all that and not let it bother them. But then again- for how long??? And then again the whole issue of gay men being in committed reltionships comes up.....

You identify yourself as gay but you you say gay men are "pretentious and full of themselves" and "incapable of monogamy", although this somehow is correlated with how "hot" they are. You don't believe gay male relationships last and your own relationships with men are plagued by jealousies, insecurities and infidelity. You are more emotionally attracted to women, you find women sexually desireable and say that you have been content in heterosexual relationships and would never stray. You have found monogamy works better for you than open relationships and you value long-term commitments.

If this is the way you feel why are you even bothering with relationships with gay men?

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #41 on: June 20, 2011, 05:59:58 PM »
GSO- I'm a bit messed up really. Can't give a better answer.   
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Online Joe K

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #42 on: June 20, 2011, 06:37:51 PM »
Hmmmm. Interesting points Joe. In my experience getting into open relationships with guys was like getting on a very slippery slope. In the beginning things were perfect, but then the thought of my partner being sexually intimate with others did get to me. When it didn't bother me, it seemed to bother him. Notwithstanding, how meticulously boundaries were drawn, things never quite 'adapted' and emotions got hurt. I guess my experience colours my views on this.   I guess I've to reconcile myself to the fact that there are more evolved people who do make open reltionships work. Lol. I'm not there yet.

I understand what you are saying, but I am unsure if you do.  Just because some people make a certain type of relationship work, does not mean anything in relation to your own partners.  You are not somehow second rate, or less "evolved" because an open relationship does not work for you.  You are you and you have decided that an open relationship is not for you, so I do not understand what you believe you are missing.  If you want a given relationship, it's up to you to make that happen and I see no benefit in you comparing apples to oranges.

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #43 on: June 20, 2011, 07:01:17 PM »
GSO- I'm a bit messed up really. Can't give a better answer.   

I don't know what resources are available in your area but a gay-friendly therapist could help you sort things out. It has helped me.

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #44 on: June 20, 2011, 08:25:57 PM »
In my case, I don't know, I am more emotionally attracted to women. Sexually, I think I might be more attracted to men, women somehow intimidate me sexually, so I find sex with men less complicated (and as a consequence, more arousing) in many levels. But at the same time, the person I was most attracted to was my ex-girlfriend. So being bi is confusing... while I feel a kind of pride in seeing beauty in both genders, my life would be much easier if I were just straight or just gay.

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2011, 04:56:12 AM »
LM- l do think that we are in roughly the same region on Kinsey’s scale. Except in my case, I am definitely more sexually attracted to guys. Men are just so much more delicious (for me) ;). This probably adds to my frustration.

GSOgymrat- I'm unsure if you think I’ve got some homophobic kink in my head. I don’t. I feel I must clarify that.  It’s a bit more complicated. I have got disillusioned after my experience with guys on ‘the scene’. I’m not going to take back what I feel about many (not all) gay men, in my experience, being vain and pretentious. There seems to be an almost overriding importance placed on youth and beauty in the gay world. This aspect cuts across cultures and was apparent  in almost all the Asian and the Western countries I’ve visited- and so I wonder whether it is something more innate to gays rather than affected by external cultural factors?

What I said about the young and hot guys not being capable of monogamy (obviously there are exceptions)- probably has something to do with the fact that for such people getting sex with whom they desire is never a problem and they tend to get a high on sleeping around (or so it seems). I’ve been there. After a while I just got unhappy.

A lot of the ‘type' of gay guys I describe are the club-hopping scene- centric guys. Admittedly, I might have been looking in the wrong places.

Recently, there was another thread on the Living-with forums where a lot of people echoed similar sentiments (being poz=Being lonely?) so I’m obviously not an anomaly.

I also find it very discouraging to see a disproportionate number of gay men end up ‘single’ in their 40’s and upwards. Yeah, there are many single hetero people in their 40’s too, but all of this just feeds my fears of winding up alone.  What happens when you grow old and your looks fade and guys stop checking you out? If one isn’t lucky enough to have found someone by then, the prospects look pretty slim. 

I wonder whether my views (and prejudices- we all have some) have any bearing on my connecting better with women at an emotional level. Who knows? I’m not a psychiatrist.

You may think I’m painting  a really one-sided and distorted picture and that my cynical attitude is based on ‘my limited experiences’ and does not apply for all- which is a fair point. But you gotta admit, there is some truth in what I say. I know many other gay guys who share such views.

Here is an article from the Guardian Newspaper titled- “Why do gay men continue to behave like teenagers?” I don’t agree with a lot of what this author says. But some point he makes are valid. Makes an interesting read in any case.  http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/apr/21/gayrights.comment

Hmmm, I think I’ve digressed from ‘bisexuality’. It now does seem that this thread is turning into ‘gay men are the problem thread’. I admit it’s largely my problem though. No more ranting, Miss P.  :)
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Offline bocker3

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2011, 07:44:19 AM »
I also find it very discouraging to see a disproportionate number of gay men end up ‘single’ in their 40’s and upwards. Yeah, there are many single hetero people in their 40’s too, but all of this just feeds my fears of winding up alone.  What happens when you grow old and your looks fade and guys stop checking you out? If one isn’t lucky enough to have found someone by then, the prospects look pretty slim. 

I wonder whether my views (and prejudices- we all have some) have any bearing on my connecting better with women at an emotional level. Who knows? I’m not a psychiatrist.

You may think I’m painting  a really one-sided and distorted picture and that my cynical attitude is based on ‘my limited experiences’ and does not apply for all- which is a fair point. But you gotta admit, there is some truth in what I say. I know many other gay guys who share such views.

So, let me get this right.....  You are concerned that so many gay men end up single in their 40's -- you worry that you will end up single in your 40's.  You think most gay men are vain and pretentious?  What are you??  How about dating those single men in their 40's? Either now or when you are older, if still single?  Where is the vain and pretentious people -- perhaps the mirrior will tell all.

The problem, IMO, in all these threads lamenting lonlieness is that people (gay, straight or bi) have this Hollywood notion of falling in love.  As Joe has pointed out -- it takes a lot of work to build and maintain a relationship.  It can take alot of "shopping" around to find the right one.  Stop worrying about all the ones that aren't right and just go out and interact with others.  Don't go on a date with the idea of "can we build a life together" -- go out and try to become friends.  If you don't like the men in the clubs you are frequenting -- STOP GOING TO THE CLUBS in hopes of meeting Mr. Right.

It's a cliche, I know, but when you are looking for love, you rarely find it.  I met my partner at an AA event -- we went out for coffee, we talked, our first date was at an amusement park.  We had sex for the first time after our 4th date -- we knew each other a little bit first (not that there is anything wrong with casual hook ups -- god knows I've had my fair share -- just dont' expect marriage to come from it).  This Aug. we will celebrate 21 yrs together. 

So.......  the old saying may apply -- if you keeping doing what you've always done -- you will keep getting what you've always gotten.

Mike
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Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2011, 11:22:17 PM »
spacebarsux, so what do you think, do you think you could be monogamous with a woman? What about with a man?

Offline next2u

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2011, 01:07:22 AM »
i'm guilty...just not as bad. while on some sites i list myself as bicurious i definitely like the man meat (im curious about the pussy -- occasionally). im not opposed to having sex with women, i just haven't gone all the way with one yet. i've been in a few threesomes with both sexes and they were really fun. each time i wanted to fuck the chick but it just didnt work out. btw, this was before i was poz.

im also very attracted to lesbians. i actually hit on one this weekend and her girlfriend got jealous. lol, here i am at a gay bar trying to pick up on a butch dyke :)

anyhow, im curious about sex with a woman. it just has to be in a certain setting, like with another guy there or they have to be a little on the butch side. btw, if i found a good girl and things worked out i'd like to think i could settle down with her. and yes, good girl is open to interpretation  :P

best,
d

funny thing - im kinda embarrassed to post this...i considered not posting this many times. its like i feel like if i talk about any attraction towards the opposite sex people will either ridicule me or push me towards that. i say all good things in their time.
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #49 on: June 22, 2011, 04:52:02 AM »
LM, yes, i have been monogamous with a woman, although the relationship lasted only about a year. Hmm... can't really say if I could totally block out my 'gay side' and be monogamous with a woman forever. In all likelihood, I won't be able to do that. Actually, most certainly not. And that is why I still identify as gay.

So the solution is to find a guy I connect with both on sexual and emotional wave-lengths. I probably have been looking for the wrong things in the wrong places. Maybe it has a lot to do with the fact that I viewed/view myself being gay more at a 'sexual' than at an emotional level and thus attracting guys who also thought similarly.

The outcome in the long-run was hurt emotions after a lot of great sex.

So you see, my bi tendencies (or whatever you want to call it) presents a real dilemma for me- which is why I said that if one likes both Italian and Japanese food. One can't be content with just one.

You reckon you could be 100% monogamous with a man? or a woman ?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 04:57:51 AM by spacebarsux »
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #50 on: June 22, 2011, 07:03:22 PM »
next2u, I think it's cool you talk about your attraction towards the opposite sex. I believe in Kinsey's scale, but society tries too much to label us as "straight" or "gay". And there's so much in between.

spacebarsux, I think it's all in your mind. If you want, you can be monogamous with anyone. However, considering our nature (human nature, that is), being monogamous is quite difficult. So I think I would have to be pretty happy with what I had at the moment. And this is an aspect that is crucial for everyone. You see many men, straight or gay, in happy relationships, but they still cheat sometimes just because they are unhappy with other aspects of their life.

But all in all, I can't say for sure, because no one can, but I think it would be easier to be monogamous with a girl.

You said that you don't think you could be monogamous with a woman in the long-run. What about with a man?

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #51 on: June 23, 2011, 12:16:20 AM »

funny thing - im kinda embarrassed to post this...i considered not posting this many times. its like i feel like if i talk about any attraction towards the opposite sex people will either ridicule me or push me towards that. i say all good things in their time.

Why are you embarrassed about it next2u? Its quite good to talk about it. :)


.

You said that you don't think you could be monogamous with a woman in the long-run. What about with a man?

I could be monogamous with the right guy, yes. But finding the right one hasn't been easy.

Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline pat46

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2011, 12:31:36 PM »
came across this website VISIBLE.BISOCIALNETWORK.COM , might be of interest to some,good luck.pat

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2011, 10:27:25 AM »
You know, on the topic of threesomes, I still have to try more. I've done it with 2 guys.. it was good, but kind of awkward. They were boyfriends, and one of them kept whispering in my ear that he wanted me just for him.

I would love to try with 2 girls, but especially with a guy and a girl. Now that's gotta be something.

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2011, 01:12:36 PM »
Wait. Hal Sparks is bi???

http://visible.bisocialnetwork.com/bis-around-town-hal-sparks-and-the-bisexual/

You mean that show wasn't real and he never was involved with Robert Gant?  Shit.

Carry on.  Back to threesomes.
don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Offline Valmont

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #55 on: August 03, 2011, 12:49:26 PM »
I´ve seen this thread some weeks ago and I immediately felt concerned...

Well, as I´m a little more quiet these days, it makes me easier talking about some aspect of myself and particularly bisexuality...  I can now talk these things quietly and objectively.

It is a hard matter because I believe my curiosity in that kind of sexuality (I explain after why I refer to sexuality...) make my whole life changed so deeply...  Because I got infected that way and because I exposed my wife…

I always have been attired by girls and women and I´m still.  I love her and I cannot imagine living my life without women love.  Sexually, I feel very confortable and I always enjoyed a lot sex with women.  I had my first sexual relation very early and I have always had a lot of curiosity for sex.

At around 20, I started to have curiosity with men, but only in a sexual way.  I´ve never felt falling in love with a man or being attracted as I could have been with a women.  My interest was sexual and relationated with new experience.  Particularly, what about sexual things I could not experimented with women.

I started to communicate with men in internet and then to meet some of them only for sex (very few, in a large time), using a period I was single.  I had relation maybe 2 or 3 times a year.  But it always have been difficult to find one person for that, I wanted a little more than only sex, a kind of special friendship with someone that was experimenting the same as I. 

I enjoyed a lot sex with men, but only sex, and this gave me the curiosity to look for more…  By another way, I need woman´s love and the kind of relationship I can have with women…

For mi, the idea situation is being loved by a woman, but having sex with men, sometimes…..  That not a good way how to built anything strong, no?  Any kind of family…  Who accepts that?  It oblige to lie at the end…

Then, I knew my wife, I told her in the first weeks that I had sexual relations with men, but this was so strong for her to accept, and I was so in love with her that we never talk again the point because I was afraid to loose her…

After a few years, the need of being with men came again and I started having meeting with guys I met in internet, very few times in the year, always protected.  I was starting accepting I´m a bisexual and that there is nothing to do with this (anyway I hate categories, because things are much more complexes…).  For external other reasons, my relationship with my wife was getting each time worth, but I decided to go on because I did not want to lose my family…

Then, one day, with a man, we had a problem with the condom, it slipped into me and the guy end up into me…  I´m sure I got infected that way…

Of course, probabilities were very low and the few times I had sex with my wife, we did not take any special cares.  From being quiet and tranquil, I went for a test I imagined I would have been negative, but as most of us here, I could not imagine this could have happened to me…
And here I am…  What a mess, as someone said…

I don´t know why I telling all this, but it makes me good…  You cannot imagine how I feel with this…
It is like something went wrong…  I´m a very planificated person, I choose a difficult life, travelling, with many challenges and everything was going well.  I was dealing well with everything, but at the end, I broke it all because of the way how I managed my life…

I still cannot understand…  In the past I felt guilty or as if it was a shame to have the kind of attracting I had, or to decide to experiment…  I thought I could live this life like many other people do….  I feel I´ve been selfish, I think…  But anyway, I don´t have regrets expect about the fact I exposed my wife to HIV (she still does not want to test herself…).  Maybe I should have not been married…..  Well, past is past, and nothing serves thinking of that, mistakes have been done…

What I believe for now is that bisexuality is extremely difficult to live (in my case)…  It is also very dangerous if one is not loyal with the person he lives or he is in relation with.  But by another way, who accepts being or living with a person that lives that way?

For now, I don´t want to know anything of sex with men, but I know it is maybe a matter of time, things don´t change at all…  I feel like if I had done it all wrong from the beginning and I even did not noticed anything…  I cannot imagine I´m in the situation I am now, I would have never imaginated it ever…

Curiously, I deal fairly well with the fact I´m now living with HIV, but that are all the consideration around me that are so heaving to deal with: my family and what I´ve done…  I always thought I was not hurting to anyone with my lifestyle, but I´ve been wrong.  I´m certainly not a good person for that, but I don´t think I´m a bad person… 

Everything escaped me from control…  Can you understand me????

Apr 2011: Diagnotized
Jun 2011: CD4: 504  VL: 176.000
Dic 2011: CD4: 714  VL: 95.000
May 2012: CD4: 395 VL: 67.000
Jun 2012: CD4: 367
Agu 2012: Starting Emtricitabine 200 mg / Tenofovir 300 mg and Efavirenz 600 mg (2 pills) different brands or VIRADAY/ATRIPLA/Mylan....
Sep 2012: VL: 138
Dic 2012: CD4: 708 VL: <34  %CD4: 32%
Jan 2013: CD4: 707 VL: <20
May 2013: CD4: 945 VL: <34 %CD4: 33%
Agu 2013: CD4: 636 VL: <34 %CD4: 50%
Dic 2013: Latent TB, started Isoniazid

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #56 on: August 03, 2011, 01:44:11 PM »
Valmont you should convince your wife to get tested.
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #57 on: August 03, 2011, 02:19:05 PM »
Valmont, I can't say it doesn't piss me off to read what you've done. You've been extremely selfish and if you couldn't control your urges, you shouldn't have gotten married or at least you should have been with someone who accepted an open relationship. Then, you should have been more careful and not put your wife at risk. It's because of people like you that there is so much prejudice against bisexuals.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #58 on: August 03, 2011, 04:25:11 PM »
Valmont, I can't say it doesn't piss me off to read what you've done. You've been extremely selfish and if you couldn't control your urges, you shouldn't have gotten married or at least you should have been with someone who accepted an open relationship. Then, you should have been more careful and not put your wife at risk. It's because of people like you that there is so much prejudice against bisexuals.

So you tell everyone person you have sex with that you're bisexual -- as in you're 100% out of the closet about this at all times with all people?
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #59 on: August 03, 2011, 04:42:49 PM »
So you tell everyone person you have sex with that you're bisexual -- as in you're 100% out of the closet about this at all times with all people?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you trying to compare marrying someone and cheating on that person, without protection, to telling everyone you have sex with that you're bisexual?

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #60 on: August 03, 2011, 04:52:53 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you trying to compare marrying someone and cheating on that person, without protection, to telling everyone you have sex with that you're bisexual?

Just asking the question, that's all -- obviously you prefer not to answer it, which is your right of course.  Valmont did disclose his bisexual issues to his new wife early in the relationship if I read his post correctly -- the wife chose not to discuss it further. Frankly IMO they're both a bit at fault with that point.

And you know what, you might think I'm a big queer with no experience in this issue but you'd be wrong. When I first began having sex at the ate of 18 it was with both women and men, and at that young age and even way back in the early 80's I was always open with this issue with all partners. 

Basically it boils down to being spineless or not -- so if one lacks a bit of spine maybe it's not a great idea to throw around petty judgements.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2011, 05:05:33 PM »
Just asking the question, that's all -- obviously you prefer not to answer it, which is your right of course.  Valmont did disclose his bisexual issues to his new wife early in the relationship if I read his post correctly -- the wife chose not to discuss it further. Frankly IMO they're both a bit at fault with that point.

And you know what, you might think I'm a big queer with no experience in this issue but you'd be wrong. When I first began having sex at the ate of 18 it was with both women and men, and at that young age and even way back in the early 80's I was always open with this issue with all partners. 

Basically it boils down to being spineless or not -- so if one lacks a bit of spine maybe it's not a great idea to throw around petty judgements.

It's not a problem for me to answer it, I just didn't see the point. Unless agreed otherwise, in a relationship, you expect commitment. Just disclosing you're bisexual doesn't make it ok for you to sleep around, if this was not discussed before in the relationship. The times I have tried a long-term relationship, I told them both I was bisexual. I didn't sleep around and I assured them that I would be monogamous and that it wouldn't be in the way of our relationship. Regardless, none of them took it well and broke up with me, out of fear I would cheat on them with men and spread to them any STDs. Why? Well, as you can see, we have examples of that, huh...

Online Jeff G

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #62 on: August 03, 2011, 05:50:50 PM »
LM ... before you judge and condemn Valmont why don't you read what you wrote in June ... seems you are hardly a spokesperson for the virtuous bisexual .



Quote from LM on June 27
You know, on another note, I'm bissexual, and I'm not open about that. Some friends know, but not many. About HIV, some will know eventually, but not many either. I have thought about being open about all that, but it wouldn't work for me, not right now. I wish I were a paragon in the fight against the stigma of HIV, but I have so many issues that I lack the power and even the strength for it. I do feel that perhaps one day, if I am in a better position than I am right now, I see that I can make a difference and I have the strength to face it all, then I might come out about it.

Offline Nestor

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #63 on: August 03, 2011, 06:10:33 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you trying to compare marrying someone and cheating on that person, without protection, to telling everyone you have sex with that you're bisexual?

But he doesn't say he didn't use protection.  He says there was a problem with the condom.  Big difference. 

Even if you want to take a hard line on monogamy, why would this give a bad name to bisexuals, any more than the numerous heterosexuals who cheat give a bad name to heterosexuality? 
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
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Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #64 on: August 03, 2011, 06:13:18 PM »
So not telling everyone I meet I'm bisexual is on par to cheating on your wife and putting her risk for STDs? Right on, you guys, you certainly follow a great sense of morality.  ;)

Nestor, that's the view many people have on bisexuals. They marry women, sleep around with men and then give them HIV.

Online Jeff G

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #65 on: August 03, 2011, 06:19:07 PM »
So not telling everyone I meet I'm bisexual is on par to cheating on your wife and putting her risk for STDs? Right on, you guys, you certainly follow a great sense of morality.  ;)

Nestor, that's the view many people have on bisexuals. They marry women, sleep around with men and then give them HIV.

I'm just suggesting if you are a closet fag with the butt flu maybe you shouldn't be judging other peoples relationships . You missed the point again .

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #66 on: August 03, 2011, 06:22:45 PM »
I'm just suggesting if you are a closet fag with the butt flu maybe you shouldn't be judging other peoples relationships . You missed the point again .

You're one to talk about judging. But please, do tell me, why would it be wrong if I'm not open about being bisexual? I'm anxious to hear.

Offline Valmont

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #67 on: August 03, 2011, 06:31:26 PM »
Well, many thanks for your comments...

I was not try to justify actions that I do consider completely fool, but telling my story...  And of course, it is fair to receive any feedback, positive or negative...


The problem, I believe, is no so much what we are but what we do...  And LM is right...

Things we do can make one have regrets, but things are done...  Of course, I´m feel sad and miserable...  But I should have thought this before, no?  The things would have been different if I would have met a woman instead of a man?  No I don´t think so...

This matter is more about fidelity...  In the middle of that I was thinking that using condom, going for a good time and them, normal life will go on and nobody would never know about that...

I think mine is most commun that we can imagine, there is many married men that look for a one-day sex relation with another one, and nothing more...

I failed to build a family because of selfish decision I took, because I decided to open a Pandora Box...  I should not have been married?  Maybe...

I disclosed to my wife, but for sure, this does not allow to sleep around...

Well, it´s done and cannot be repaired, this has escaped me for completely, sure I should have thought about that before, but don´t think I don´t care, this is a very heavy situation I have to deal with, I´m very shamy about that and never imagine this could happened to me...  And sometimes I think my life don´t worth a lot, I still go on only because I believe suicide does not mean anything and because anyway, there are still things I can do, I can do better...  I have a son I love that did not asked for anything, and my wife still deny HIV situation (I´m aware she has to be tested as soon as possible, I insist her)....

... But I also know I´m the worst of the worst... not to say anything else !





I was posting, but 4 posts appeared...

Ok, about the relations I had outside (and before marriage), I always used condom.  In last relation, we had a problem with it at the end...  I never imagine in being infected, I talked with this guy and he was so scared as I.  I decided immediatly to make a test after 6 weeks and here I am...  The statistics..............  

LM, the problem would be the same if the married man goes to another woman, or ever if the woman goes sleeping with another man; it is not only bisexuality...  And what´s about men that goes to prostitute?

I wonder if it was a good idea to tell my history...
Apr 2011: Diagnotized
Jun 2011: CD4: 504  VL: 176.000
Dic 2011: CD4: 714  VL: 95.000
May 2012: CD4: 395 VL: 67.000
Jun 2012: CD4: 367
Agu 2012: Starting Emtricitabine 200 mg / Tenofovir 300 mg and Efavirenz 600 mg (2 pills) different brands or VIRADAY/ATRIPLA/Mylan....
Sep 2012: VL: 138
Dic 2012: CD4: 708 VL: <34  %CD4: 32%
Jan 2013: CD4: 707 VL: <20
May 2013: CD4: 945 VL: <34 %CD4: 33%
Agu 2013: CD4: 636 VL: <34 %CD4: 50%
Dic 2013: Latent TB, started Isoniazid

Online Joe K

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #68 on: August 03, 2011, 07:00:43 PM »
It's not a problem for me to answer it, I just didn't see the point. Unless agreed otherwise, in a relationship, you expect commitment. Just disclosing you're bisexual doesn't make it ok for you to sleep around, if this was not discussed before in the relationship. The times I have tried a long-term relationship, I told them both I was bisexual. I didn't sleep around and I assured them that I would be monogamous and that it wouldn't be in the way of our relationship. Regardless, none of them took it well and broke up with me, out of fear I would cheat on them with men and spread to them any STDs. Why? Well, as you can see, we have examples of that, huh...

I'm curious, did they actually say that your being bisexual was the sole reason for breaking up with you?

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #69 on: August 03, 2011, 07:29:09 PM »
Valmont, you told your story and I told what I felt about it. You know it, but I think you needed to hear from someone else that you fucked up. Despite that, I hope your wife is ok, that she forgives you in any case and that you guys can be happy together. I hope whatever lesson you get from this, you make sure that you don't do the same mistakes. I believe you should find the roots of your infidelity. Is it just guys, or would you do it with women as well? Infidelity is all around, that's true, but what happened to you is the stereotype of bisexuals, and it's terrible to see it happen again and again. I can't tell you what to do, but I think you should think better about what you really want in life if you don't want to hurt your wife and son.

This topic gets to me because I've been always been adamant about infidelity. I saw my father cheating on my mom countless times and how it made her unhappy. Not only that, but I didn't want to be that guy that has a perfect marriage but who sleeps with men on the side, like many expect from bisexuals.

killfoile, and this goes back to your question. Yes, the first one told me she loved me, but that she couldn't be with me because I was bisexual. The second one I told right in the beginning and she took it well, found it "cool", but as things got more serious, she started to get worried about it and eventually broke up with me. She made it implicit it was because of that. Maybe not the sole reason, but surely the main one.

Offline Valmont

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #70 on: August 03, 2011, 07:55:44 PM »
I never had a long term relationship at the same time as my marriage. I only met men for a couple of hours, men I did not know, only for sex...  I´ve never involved feelings.  I´ve never done it with other women...  I was believing fidelity was much more than only sex (maybe an easy way to justify a conduct I knew wrong...)

I don´t think my infection is a bisexual problem, it could have happened exactly in a same way if I would have gone to prostitutes, or not?...  Or maybe the problem was telling my story as it happened?

When I decided to get married, I did not think I will have this kind of moment I can count in one hand...  I would not have married...  But you know, with the time, curiosity....

You know, when people get married, they never imagine they can divorce in the future, they don´t imagine they can feel in love with other people...  Life is impossible to predict...  But for sure, what is important is the way how we take our decisions, this is the difficult part...  I´m clear about what I should do in the future, but what is broken is...  I want to repair what is possible, I want to be a better person I am...

Apr 2011: Diagnotized
Jun 2011: CD4: 504  VL: 176.000
Dic 2011: CD4: 714  VL: 95.000
May 2012: CD4: 395 VL: 67.000
Jun 2012: CD4: 367
Agu 2012: Starting Emtricitabine 200 mg / Tenofovir 300 mg and Efavirenz 600 mg (2 pills) different brands or VIRADAY/ATRIPLA/Mylan....
Sep 2012: VL: 138
Dic 2012: CD4: 708 VL: <34  %CD4: 32%
Jan 2013: CD4: 707 VL: <20
May 2013: CD4: 945 VL: <34 %CD4: 33%
Agu 2013: CD4: 636 VL: <34 %CD4: 50%
Dic 2013: Latent TB, started Isoniazid

Offline BT65

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #71 on: August 04, 2011, 07:02:08 AM »
You're one to talk about judging.

Just what do you mean by this?  Throughout this whole thread, I've read not one iota of judgment from Jg1962.
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Online Miss Philicia

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #72 on: August 04, 2011, 11:59:15 AM »
You're one to talk about judging. But please, do tell me, why would it be wrong if I'm not open about being bisexual? I'm anxious to hear.

Are you honestly that daft? If one is in a relationship the other partner expects a high level of openness and honesty. Sexuality is a major component in anyone's personality, and for you to think it's fine to never discuss this with your partner speaks volumes of your character.

And yes, that's a judgement.
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Online Miss Philicia

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #73 on: August 04, 2011, 12:01:57 PM »
I never had a long term relationship at the same time as my marriage. I only met men for a couple of hours, men I did not know, only for sex...  I´ve never involved feelings.  

I'm sure all of your gay male furtive dalliances appreciate the absence of emotion and being treated like a breathing plastic blow up doll. Do you bisexual guys that keep insisting that with men it's just sex and not emotions realize how tedious and insulting that is?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2011, 12:24:44 PM by Miss Philicia »
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Offline Valmont

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #74 on: August 04, 2011, 12:15:33 PM »
That was not what I wanted to say (sorry, English is not a language I use everyday)...  It is not an absence of emotion, of respect, it much more than only a sex time that is shared at the end...  I´ve never treated anyone as you say, I met people that were looking for the same than I, a good moment without many questions...  Really in that time I was looking for a good friend.  When I refered to involving feelings, I refer to love...
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Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #75 on: August 04, 2011, 12:25:04 PM »
Just what do you mean by this?  Throughout this whole thread, I've read not one iota of judgment from Jg1962.

He knows what I mean, it didn't start on this thread. And do you think it's nice to come here quoting something I said like if he was showing evidence of a crime I committed? And I'm still waiting for him to answer my question. Or perhaps he just likes to hit and run.

Are you honestly that daft? If one is in a relationship the other partner expects a high level of openness and honesty. Sexuality is a major component in anyone's personality, and for you to think it's fine to never discuss this with your partner speaks volumes of your character.

And yes, that's a judgement.

Miss P, I know your life is pretty miserable so you have to try and make other people's life miserable as well, but please, next time make a proper effort to read what I say. Perhaps it won't make you look stupid. There you go again:

The times I have tried a long-term relationship, I told them both I was bisexual.

Offline leatherman

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #76 on: August 04, 2011, 12:29:47 PM »
Do you bisexual guys that keep insisting that with me it's just sex and not emotions realize how tedious and insulting that is?
People can't just fuck to be fucking? Emotions have to be involved with something that could just be a physical act and not one step on the road to a long-term relationship? What's the diff between a gay man tricking and a the bisexual guy tricking? They don't call them one-night stands for nothing.  ;)

While I can't say that it engenders me to them either to hear that the gay daillances seem to always be of less importance than the hetero ones, I don't think many of us could throw stones since we probably weren't looking for relationships either with a lot of the people with whom we had sex.
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Online Miss Philicia

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #77 on: August 04, 2011, 12:31:54 PM »

Miss P, I know your life is pretty miserable so you have to try and make other people's life miserable as well, but please, next time make a proper effort to read what I say. Perhaps it won't make you look stupid. There you go again:


Oh, OK -- my life is now miserable. Got it. What was that joy I just experienced with my morning Rare Earth mud mask and digging out an old Vivienne Westwood belt. I will, however, agree that I did not enjoy spraying soap scum remover in my shower and scrubbing it all down a few hours ago. That did indeed make me miserable. Really what makes me miserable is the continual "whoa is me" routines on this forum. It makes me pull out a razor blade on an hourly basis.

By the way, it's you that seems miserable, unhappy, and dissatisfied with the sexual space you attempt to inhabit. How's that going? Personally I've been out of the closet since I was 18 so I'm not sure why that would make a miserable person. Maybe you can edify our friendly forum readers on this issue.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2011, 12:34:40 PM by Miss Philicia »
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Online Miss Philicia

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #78 on: August 04, 2011, 12:33:11 PM »
People can't just fuck to be fucking? Emotions have to be involved with something that could just be a physical act and not one step on the road to a long-term relationship? What's the diff between a gay man tricking and a the bisexual guy tricking? They don't call them one-night stands for nothing.  ;)

As usual, you simply don't get it... Bivens. And no, that doesn't need a damn emoticon.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Online Jeff G

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #79 on: August 04, 2011, 12:36:26 PM »
He knows what I mean, it didn't start on this thread. And do you think it's nice to come here quoting something I said like if he was showing evidence of a crime I committed? And I'm still waiting for him to answer my question. Or perhaps he just likes to hit and run.

You need to stop trying to work out your own issues in other peoples thread about hiding who you really are . I stopped replying because you are never going to see this for what it is , and that's you jumping down another members throat about there honesty issues . The truth is the truth and you can not pick and choose how to apply it to appease your guilty conscience about pretending to be some thing you are not .  

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #80 on: August 04, 2011, 12:43:44 PM »
You need to stop trying to work out your own issues in other peoples thread about hiding who you really are . I stopped replying because you are never going to see this for what it is , and that's you jumping down another members throat about there honesty issues . The truth is the truth and you can not pick and choose how to apply it to appease your guilty conscience about pretending to be some thing you are not . 

Oh come on Jeffypoo -- you're just being a miserable poz cock sucker again.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Online Jeff G

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #81 on: August 04, 2011, 12:54:30 PM »
Oh come on Jeffypoo -- you're just being a miserable poz cock sucker again.

If this is misery I'm a lucky guy  ;D . Some of us have made the choice to march in the streets for gay rights and be openly POZ to fight stigma . It just seems a bit easy to attack others honesty and call them miserable when you have done nothing but float through life on the hard work of others .

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #82 on: August 04, 2011, 01:02:33 PM »
Oh come on Jeffypoo -- you're just being a miserable poz cock sucker again.

Ewww me too! me too!......I want to be a miserable poz cock sucker too....  oh, wait, I already am - never mind...
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Online Joe K

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #83 on: August 04, 2011, 01:50:35 PM »
This thread has so many tangents and some people seem to be confusing facts with feelings.  Sexual orientation is one of the most complex aspects of being human and each of us has a sexuality that is just as unique as our fingerprints.  I think we also develop a "personal approach" to difficult issues, that we believe will work and often do not understand that just because it works for you, does not mean it will work for someone else.  There also seems to be a lot of confusion on what it takes to have a fulfilling relationship with another person.  I'll share a couple of ideas and let the chips fall where they may.

If you are unable to be honest with yourself, regarding your own sexuality, you will never be able to be honest about it with someone else.  You have every right to feel as you feel, however, if you want something meaningful with another, you must be brutally honest in sharing those feelings.  Suggesting that stereotypes or using words like "most" or "many" do something, are excuses, not justification.  Relationships that last are based upon unconditional trust, that your mate will do as they say and say as they do.  If you cannot be honest and truthful, that trust will never grow.

Relationships can be really frightening, as you are exposing your inner most thoughts and leaving yourself open to possible rejection.  I understand that fear, yet without the honesty, another keystone to relationships, what do you expect the other partner to do?  As much as it may scare you, if you want something meaningful with someone, they deserve to hear it all, the good, bad and ugly, so they can make an informed decision on whether to become involved with you.  This sharing requires another key component to relationships: respect.  If you do not respect your partner enough, to share the truth, so you both can address whatever issues arise, your relationship is doomed.  Trust, honesty and respect are key to any relationship, whether it be as a partner, family or friend.  If you truly want to be with someone, you must respect those boundaries, because it is from these traits that almost everything else flows.

I also reject the idea that you cannot be intimate or distant with a trick, because that requires a judgement, one that nobody is qualified to make regarding another person.  What I see are some folks being less than honest with themselves, regarding who and what they are and expecting others to compensate for that lack of honesty, which results in blame deflection.  You control what you do and say, period.  You are solely responsible for your words and actions, period.  Rationalizing hurtful personal behavior, as opposed to directly addressing your own issues, is a character flaw and it can be overcome, but it's your responsibility, period.

At one time, I lived a life of lies and it only brought pain to everyone it touched, including myself.  At first it was easy to blame others for my failings, until it wasn't.  I was incredibly damaged by my lies and only by accepting my guilt, in how I treated others, including myself, could I move past that life and understand what it took to be an honest person.  And as soon as I started to live a truthful life, by being honest with who and what I am, my life took a new trajectory and I was able to find peace within me.

I don't think sexuality is as important here, as opposed to personal skills and a strong moral fiber.  When I met Stephen, we shared our darkest, most intimate secrets.  What we heard scared us both, because we both have baggage by the trunk load.  Yet, by sharing those secrets, our feelings, thoughts and philosophies, we developed an incredibly intimate personal bond.  I was petrified when I shared my history of depression with him and I expect him to bolt for the door.  I expected to lose someone I cared deeply for, because I misjudged his capabilities.  While I had told him the truth, I didn't respect his ability to make an informed decision that ultimately worked out very well for us both.

My last point is you need to come to terms with who and what you are, before you can every expect anyone else to understand how you feel.  You need to possess the moral fiber to treat others as you would wish to be treated.  Using excuses or suggesting that nobody can understand your life, may be true, but it does nothing to help heal you.  If you want a meaningful relationship, it means approaching it like an adult, laying ALL of your cards on the table and letting the chips fall where they may. 

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #84 on: August 04, 2011, 03:35:55 PM »
You need to stop trying to work out your own issues in other peoples thread about hiding who you really are . I stopped replying because you are never going to see this for what it is , and that's you jumping down another members throat about there honesty issues . The truth is the truth and you can not pick and choose how to apply it to appease your guilty conscience about pretending to be some thing you are not .  

I don't get you. I try to think it's a cultural difference, that it's the American way of being to just butt in where they are not invited and assume they are the center of the universe, that everything they feel or know is just the same for the others, so they can go judging what someone should feel or do. But it's not, because I've met many Americans in my life, including others here, that do not act like that. So it's just your way of being. And Miss P's.

Do you think you are better than me because you are open about being gay and HIV+? Do you think I owe you anything for that? And really, questioning my honesty because of that, that I can't criticize someone for cheating on a spouse and putting that person at risk for STDs is a sign of a sick, twisted morality.

You have to accept that you don't know me. You know shit about my life, and I couldn't care less about yours. What makes you think I have a guilty conscience? Over what?? And answering Miss P's question, I can feel miserable about many things in my life, but not being open about me being bisexual or HIV+ is certainly not one for them. Is it so hard for you to handle that?

The fact is that you think I'm just working my own issues in other people's thread (is anyone's really? the topic is being bisexual). But I think it's you doing that. You can't accept the fact I'm not "out of the closet" like you and that's the second time you bring it out, for no reason. If it's someone who has issues, it looks like it's you. Grow up and take responsibility for your own actions without expecting the same from others.

So, finally, I ask you: if in twisted mentality you think I'm dishonest because of that, good for you, if it makes you feel better about yourself. But I ask you to keep it to yourself. If you don't have anything to add, better keep it quiet. Especially in your case, "speech is silver, but silence is golden".

Offline thunter34

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #85 on: August 04, 2011, 05:00:16 PM »
I don't get you. I try to think it's a cultural difference, that it's the American way of being to just butt in where they are not invited and assume they are the center of the universe, that everything they feel or know is just the same for the others, so they can go judging what someone should feel or do. But it's not, because I've met many Americans in my life, including others here, that do not act like that. So it's just your way of being. And Miss P's.

Do you think you are better than me because you are open about being gay and HIV+? Do you think I owe you anything for that? And really, questioning my honesty because of that, that I can't criticize someone for cheating on a spouse and putting that person at risk for STDs is a sign of a sick, twisted morality.

You have to accept that you don't know me. You know shit about my life, and I couldn't care less about yours. What makes you think I have a guilty conscience? Over what?? And answering Miss P's question, I can feel miserable about many things in my life, but not being open about me being bisexual or HIV+ is certainly not one for them. Is it so hard for you to handle that?

The fact is that you think I'm just working my own issues in other people's thread (is anyone's really? the topic is being bisexual). But I think it's you doing that. You can't accept the fact I'm not "out of the closet" like you and that's the second time you bring it out, for no reason. If it's someone who has issues, it looks like it's you. Grow up and take responsibility for your own actions without expecting the same from others.

So, finally, I ask you: if in twisted mentality you think I'm dishonest because of that, good for you, if it makes you feel better about yourself. But I ask you to keep it to yourself. If you don't have anything to add, better keep it quiet. Especially in your case, "speech is silver, but silence is golden".

They're still right, though.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #86 on: August 04, 2011, 05:21:50 PM »
They're still right, though.

You tell me then, right about what?

Offline thunter34

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #87 on: August 04, 2011, 06:29:22 PM »
You tell me then, right about what?

This:

Basically it boils down to being spineless or not -- so if one lacks a bit of spine maybe it's not a great idea to throw around petty judgements.

or this...

I'm just suggesting if you are a closet fag with the butt flu maybe you shouldn't be judging other peoples relationships

However you'd like it said to you.  Take your pick.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #88 on: August 04, 2011, 06:42:55 PM »
Yup, thunter34, it sure is a twisted world. Suddenly keeping something personal to yourself and to those you wish to share, which does no harm to anyone, is as bad as cheating on your wife and putting her at risk for STDs, which clearly is a risk for someone else. Superb reasoning.

Offline thunter34

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #89 on: August 04, 2011, 06:46:40 PM »
Yup, thunter34, it sure is a twisted world. Suddenly keeping something personal to yourself and to those you wish to share, which does no harm to anyone, is as bad as cheating on your wife and putting her at risk for STDs, which clearly is a risk for someone else. Superb reasoning.

Hey!  Perhaps if you can meet us in Seattle you can teach us the steps to your Superiority Dance.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Nestor

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #90 on: August 04, 2011, 06:51:48 PM »
This:

or this...

However you'd like it said to you.  Take your pick.

Sorry, but I really don't see the logic in any of this either.  LM criticized someone--or attacked him, if you like--for "cheating on" his wife.  I fail to see how being gay, or being closeted, or having HIV, or being spineless, disqualifies him from making that judgement, no matter how colorful the vocabulary in which those conditions are described.  

The valid criticism against you, LM, is simply that you were unkind and uncharitable to someone who with a great deal of honesty shared a difficult part of his experience with us.  This is why a fairly large group of people have been unkind to you in return, and if their logic eludes me their sentiment does not.  Not that you have to agree with everything Valmont does or says, but a little bit of compassion in your response to him might have helped avoid a lot of the bitterness in their reply to you.  

You are passionate about--you use the word adamant--monogamy.  Please recognize that many other people are not.  I myself see the beauty in a monogomous relationship but I also see the beauty in an open relationship.  And many, many people are somewhere in the middle and believe in monogamy but do not always practice it.  I have heard that something like 75% of married people have "cheated on" their spouses.  That doesn't make it right, but it ought to be enough to make us question whether monogamy is the natural condition, and to suggest that breathing fire against someone who honestly shares the fact that he slept with someone not his wife is not the appropriate response.  

I do think that someone who is sleeping with more than one person has a strong obligation to use protection.  And to be honest, with the less than 100% clarity in the sentence in which Valmont described the way in which the condom did not work, I'm not sure what to think about that episode.  But I don't have to be.  I am not called upon to make a moral judgement here.  

I repeat that none of this should have any reflection on bisexuality.  A purely heterosexual man sleeping with another woman would be doing the exact same thing Valmont did, and unless you are willing to say that he is giving a bad name to heterosexuality I don't see why you should say that Valmont gives bisexuals a bad name.  
« Last Edit: August 04, 2011, 06:55:01 PM by Nestor »
Summer 2004--became HIV+
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Date          CD4    %       VL
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May '09     645   25        6,478
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May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
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Offline bocker3

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #91 on: August 04, 2011, 06:58:51 PM »
I don't get you. I try to think it's a cultural difference, that it's the American way of being to just butt in where they are not invited and assume they are the center of the universe, that everything they feel or know is just the same for the others, so they can go judging what someone should feel or do. But it's not, because I've met many Americans in my life, including others here, that do not act like that. So it's just your way of being. And Miss P's.

Do you think you are better than me because you are open about being gay and HIV+? Do you think I owe you anything for that? And really, questioning my honesty because of that, that I can't criticize someone for cheating on a spouse and putting that person at risk for STDs is a sign of a sick, twisted morality.

You have to accept that you don't know me. You know shit about my life, and I couldn't care less about yours. What makes you think I have a guilty conscience? Over what?? And answering Miss P's question, I can feel miserable about many things in my life, but not being open about me being bisexual or HIV+ is certainly not one for them. Is it so hard for you to handle that?

The fact is that you think I'm just working my own issues in other people's thread (is anyone's really? the topic is being bisexual). But I think it's you doing that. You can't accept the fact I'm not "out of the closet" like you and that's the second time you bring it out, for no reason. If it's someone who has issues, it looks like it's you. Grow up and take responsibility for your own actions without expecting the same from others.

So, finally, I ask you: if in twisted mentality you think I'm dishonest because of that, good for you, if it makes you feel better about yourself. But I ask you to keep it to yourself. If you don't have anything to add, better keep it quiet. Especially in your case, "speech is silver, but silence is golden".

You are a bit of a piece of work, aren't you??  you are berating others who you think are "judging you" by screaming that they don't "know you".  What are you doing???  Judging someone whom you don't know.
come down off your fucking high horse and stop projecting your morals, your standards and your "issues" on others.  You almost NEVER interact with anyone on this site without judgment, venom and anger.  Go find a mirror and have a long, hard look darling.......  if it don't break first.

M
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Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #92 on: August 04, 2011, 07:07:48 PM »
Hey!  Perhaps if you can meet us in Seattle you can teach us the steps to your Superiority Dance.

Well, if I had the money to even travel to the US and then Seattle, I would be glad to talk to you and get you to know me better. In no way I feel better than anyone here. Nor worse. What I told Valmont was because I think he needed to be reminded what he did was wrong. He took it well, and I wish him all the best. But I find it despicable that someone might think he/she is better than me or that I can't say this or that because I'm not openly bisexual or that I tell everyone I'm HIV+. I think everyone here should respect people's personal choices on how to deal with these aspects in their lives, always paying attention to the potential harm that they could cause others. So in this respect, I don't see why a "closet fag with the butt flu", as offensive as that may be, is seen with so much contempt by some.


Nestor, it's just that it's classic, bisexual man sleeps with other men and infects wife. I hate that, Valmont was asking people's thoughts and said mine. I'm ok if people want to have open relationships, but then both partners have to agree on that, and that was certainly not the case. Sure, I was unkind and maybe uncharitable, like you said, and I don't mind you saying that. And if someone thought like that, they should have come and said it, like you're doing it yourself. That's a valid criticism. But coming here and attacking me for completely unrelated reasons is just vile. And regardless if it was right or wrong, and unkind as I may have been, Valmont took well what I said, and I really wish him no ill fortune.

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #93 on: August 04, 2011, 07:14:26 PM »
You are a bit of a piece of work, aren't you??  you are berating others who you think are "judging you" by screaming that they don't "know you".  What are you doing???  Judging someone whom you don't know.
come down off your fucking high horse and stop projecting your morals, your standards and your "issues" on others.  You almost NEVER interact with anyone on this site without judgment, venom and anger.  Go find a mirror and have a long, hard look darling.......  if it don't break first.

M

Really? Have you read the thread thoroughly? I've only had problems in this thread and another and with the same person who has come to attack me once again. I'm pretty sure if you look at all my posts, you'll see little "judgment, venom and anger". Except for the way I addressed Valmont, for I did get pissed off with his story, I dare you to show me I have judged someone without that person judging me first.

Offline thunter34

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #94 on: August 04, 2011, 08:18:43 PM »
I just think it's real easy to wag a finger in disapproval from the shadows of a closet.

But yeah...it is often repulsive to see folks infect others from the DL.  It's also a wee bit repulsive when some stay in their relative safety while others brave the consequences of being honest about who they are.

Kids leap to their deaths.  Staying silent in the shadows isn't a completely victimless endeavor.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #95 on: August 04, 2011, 08:20:26 PM »
I just think it's real easy to wag a finger in disapproval from the shadows of a closet.

As opposed to being a slutty stripper dancing up on a bar for tips from closet cases?
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #96 on: August 04, 2011, 09:58:02 PM »
I just think it's real easy to wag a finger in disapproval from the shadows of a closet.

But yeah...it is often repulsive to see folks infect others from the DL.  It's also a wee bit repulsive when some stay in their relative safety while others brave the consequences of being honest about who they are.

Kids leap to their deaths.  Staying silent in the shadows isn't a completely victimless endeavor.

What, am I to blame for people committing suicide or something? Is that really what you want to say?

I'm starting to think it is indeed a cultural thing. It seems you guys have the surreal idea that just being open about being gay, bisexual, or HIV+ will change the world. I know your country has bad examples of politicians or political activists in the closet badmouthing the gay community just to hide their own condition. And that's why I insist: none of you know me. You don't know how I've been always fighting for gay rights in my country, signing and helping with petitions, participating in more than one political demonstation, and I'm not talking about the Gay Pride parade. You don't know that long before I got HIV, I've always criticized those who showed any prejudice against people who were HIV+. I know, regardless of what you may think, that I have done much more against prejudice than many people who are open about their status or their sexuality.

Yet, even if I didn't, if I just stood quiet about it, it would be in my right to do so. There are many open gay, bisexual or HIV+ people who are open about their condition and act against their community, either by example or just by simple badmouthing. The thing is: no one has to be an activist of their condition, but not being open about it doesn't stop you from being an activist as well. Sure, if you are both, it can only add up, but disrespecting those who aren't is absurd.

And really, if I'm not welcome here because of that, as stupid as that may be, I can leave with no problems. I certainly don't want to be attacked for unrelated reasons all the time.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2011, 10:00:43 PM by LM »

Offline thunter34

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #97 on: August 04, 2011, 10:21:53 PM »
I'm just riding you because I think you need to hop down off your Hobby Horse.  You'll got an unwarranted sense of self righteousness going, sweet pea. 

I get just as fatigued watching bisexuals live comfortably on the side while dipping in when it suits them as you do watching some take reckless chances with others' health.  Very often, the two go hand in hand.

And I don't like seeing people who dare to be honest in a place like this get slapped by people who lack that same courage themselves.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #98 on: August 04, 2011, 10:55:53 PM »
I'm just riding you because I think you need to hop down off your Hobby Horse.  You'll got an unwarranted sense of self righteousness going, sweet pea. 

You basically blame me for people's deaths and I'm the self-righteous one?


I get just as fatigued watching bisexuals live comfortably on the side while dipping in when it suits them as you do watching some take reckless chances with others' health.  Very often, the two go hand in hand.

And I don't like seeing people who dare to be honest in a place like this get slapped by people who lack that same courage themselves.


Like I said, twisted sense of morality. What you guys think about being open about your sexuality or HIV status is unreal, to say the least. It's not about courage, or being a paragon of justice and the fight against prejudices or stigmas. Being open about your sexuality or HIV status is a personal choice and I'm pretty sure whatever decision you've made was not thinking about the well-being of mankind, but your own. And that's not bad, it's just what it is. You're entitled to decide what's best for your life and so am I. I respect that, so why don't you? You should stop thinking the only right way is your way and other people are cowards and on a safe zone.

And true about what you said: many times being in the closet and going around infecting your partner go hand in hand. Or being homophobic, campaigning agaist the gay community, etc. But then I go back to what killfoile said and that is being true to yourself. That's what matters most in the end.

Offline thunter34

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #99 on: August 04, 2011, 11:04:41 PM »

Like I said, twisted sense of morality. What you guys think about being open about your sexuality or HIV status is unreal, to say the least. It's not about courage, or being a paragon of justice and the fight against prejudices or stigmas. Being open about your sexuality or HIV status is a personal choice and I'm pretty sure whatever decision you've made was not thinking about the well-being of mankind, but your own.

You don't know me and how many Pride Parades I've marched in!!!!
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline bocker3

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #100 on: August 04, 2011, 11:07:09 PM »
You basically blame me for people's deaths and I'm the self-righteous one?

Like I said, twisted sense of morality. What you guys think about being open about your sexuality or HIV status is unreal, to say the least. It's not about courage, or being a paragon of justice and the fight against prejudices or stigmas. Being open about your sexuality or HIV status is a personal choice and I'm pretty sure whatever decision you've made was not thinking about the well-being of mankind, but your own. And that's not bad, it's just what it is. You're entitled to decide what's best for your life and so am I. I respect that, so why don't you? You should stop thinking the only right way is your way and other people are cowards and on a safe zone.

And true about what you said: many times being in the closet and going around infecting your partner go hand in hand. Or being homophobic, campaigning agaist the gay community, etc. But then I go back to what killfoile said and that is being true to yourself. That's what matters most in the end.

I think in your rush to be "right", you are missing the point.  You think one person's dishonesty is fair game because it puts someone else at risk -- then you reason away your dishonesty by saying it doesn't hurt anyone.  Go ask those that you deceived and see if the they feel "hurt" by your dishonesty?  It's not what you are dishonest about, it's probaby not even that you were dishonest -- it's your slapping down someone else.  So pick your nits, and split your hairs -- but THAT is, I think, the point Tim and others are trying to make to you.  Stop for a moment and read what I said with a desire to understand rather than looking for how to defend yourself, perhaps you'll see the distinction I'm making.
Was Valmont wrong -- probably (definitely from her POV) --- are you "wrong" -- probably (very likely from your unknowing tricks POV).  Now I'm not saying that you SHOULD disclose, I'm simply saying that you, Mr. Pot, aren't all that different in color from Mr. Kettle, perhaps a different shade, but not a different color.

I know this will likely have fallen on deaf ears.....  so be it, but I hope you see a glimmer here.

Mike
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Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #101 on: August 04, 2011, 11:32:39 PM »
You don't know me and how many Pride Parades I've marched in!!!!

True, I don't know you, and I don't need to know you nor how many Pride Parades you've marched in to say that you are openly gay (or about whatever) because it was better for you. There was no altruism in that, that's the choice that worked better for you and that's fine. That alone didn't make you an activist for gay rights, or HIV+ rights, if you are one, but other things you've done besides that. That's my point.

I think in your rush to be "right", you are missing the point.  You think one person's dishonesty is fair game because it puts someone else at risk -- then you reason away your dishonesty by saying it doesn't hurt anyone.  Go ask those that you deceived and see if the they feel "hurt" by your dishonesty?  It's not what you are dishonest about, it's probaby not even that you were dishonest -- it's your slapping down someone else.  So pick your nits, and split your hairs -- but THAT is, I think, the point Tim and others are trying to make to you.  Stop for a moment and read what I said with a desire to understand rather than looking for how to defend yourself, perhaps you'll see the distinction I'm making.
Was Valmont wrong -- probably (definitely from her POV) --- are you "wrong" -- probably (very likely from your unknowing tricks POV).  Now I'm not saying that you SHOULD disclose, I'm simply saying that you, Mr. Pot, aren't all that different in color from Mr. Kettle, perhaps a different shade, but not a different color.

I know this will likely have fallen on deaf ears.....  so be it, but I hope you see a glimmer here.

Mike


Mike, if I may address you as such, I have no intent on being "right". But as I've said, comparing both things is completely absurd. Why would I have to tell someone I'm bisexual? Really, that's why I'm saying this must be a cultural thing, because it just doesn't make sense to me. I didn't deceive anyone because it's simply none of their business. Do I suddenly owe someone this disclosure? Perhaps you could say that in a relationship, and I would agree. But even if I didn't, I still think it's crazy to compare that to putting someone at risk for STDs. It's not just emotions we're talking about, but someone's health. Calling me dishonest because of that is completely out of order. There is something called personal, and I'm pretty sure none of you disclose every single aspect of your life to someone the first time you meet them, and I don't see how this is any different.

The fact is that this isn't about how I talked to Valmont. He dealt well with it, why can't you? Call me rude, insensitive, or whatever, but saying I can't criticize someone because I'm dishonest for not disclosing my sexuality to others is just crazy.

Offline thunter34

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #102 on: August 04, 2011, 11:43:05 PM »
True, I don't know you, and I don't need to know you nor how many Pride Parades you've marched in to say that you are openly gay (or about whatever) because it was better for you. There was no altruism in that, that's the choice that worked better for you and that's fine.

For someone who keeps insisting that we don't know you, you keep making some major assumptions when it comes to others.

As a matter of fact, it was NOT what simply worked better for me.  It was the absolute hardest and most miserable time of my life - but I plugged away at it anyway.  And yes, largely on principle.  It would have been much easier for me to stay all quiet and cozy at the time.

AIDS isn't for sissies.

Online Jeff G

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #103 on: August 04, 2011, 11:47:13 PM »
Real activist always march in gay pride parades with those assless chaps on ... every body knows that .

Offline thunter34

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #104 on: August 04, 2011, 11:48:20 PM »
Real activist always march in gay pride parades with those assless chaps on ... every body knows that .

OMG  thank you!  Something else to remember to pack for Seattle!
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #105 on: August 05, 2011, 12:05:35 AM »
Large meat lovers pizza and 10 barbeque chicken wings.

Oops, sorry, thought I was posting on the Papa John's online ordering website...

 ::)
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Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
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12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
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Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #106 on: August 05, 2011, 12:08:00 AM »
For someone who keeps insisting that we don't know you, you keep making some major assumptions when it comes to others.

As a matter of fact, it was NOT what simply worked better for me.  It was the absolute hardest and most miserable time of my life - but I plugged away at it anyway.  And yes, largely on principle.  It would have been much easier for me to stay all quiet and cozy at the time.



It's not a major assumption, it's just human. Would it have been easier if you stayed quiet? Perhaps. Would it have been better? Probably not. I'm not questioning how hard it was for you, I'm saying you did it because you thought it was best for yourself in the end, despite all the hardships.

I just left the stable job I had. Was it easy? No, I'm still paying the consequences, for I'm unemployed and with little money. Was it better? Hell yes. The job was killing me and I want something more. Get my point?

What was the best for you may not be the best for me and whatever decision you took doesn't make you better than those who didn't. And whatever decision you took wouldn't stop you either from marching in Pride Parades, being outspoken for gay rights, etc, the same way as it doesn't stop me as well.

Offline Since2005

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #107 on: August 05, 2011, 04:10:28 AM »
For others, it is his own right and choice what he says or does at his will, is his business. If he decides to stay in the closet with his sexuality and with his HIV status then it is his F...ing business. Who are you to say that he is wrong or you are better than him because you are out. Because you are out you are fighting for rights we all salute you for that. For God's sake, because of that we have this Forum. However, in NO WAYS he or I or anyone else who is the closet owe anything to you AT ALL and we certainly are not floating on a free boat. Everyone has their own issues and has their own way of dealing with things. Please be mindful to that regard.

For LM, I have been reading this thread all along tonight. I was amazed to see how you made a comment to someone who was only sharing his ‘so personal’ story with us (sorry I am repeating Nestor here). I myself came to this forum only a few days ago and I have shared my personal story to others and I was saddened to see  (I actually cried) how few people were passing judgments or making comments ‘without being compassionate’. It did hurt me and I am sure that was not their intention but because they were unable to be compassionate and kind to my concerns and stories (regardless how accurate or supportive they were) and rushed to say what needs to be said , that did not make me feel any better and at one point I thought it was a bad idea to come this Forum after all. So, I know how Valmont felt. You are completely oblivious to his sensitive issue as how terrible he feels for the situation that he is in rather you were worried about how he gives bisexuality a bad name. At one point, he said something like ‘may be it was not such a good idea to tell the story’.  So, please (I am not judging you here), before you post your comments, at least try to be sensitive to whom are you making comments about.

« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 04:58:18 AM by Since2005 »

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #108 on: August 05, 2011, 05:41:17 AM »
While I can see that a closeted bisexual preaching to another bisexual could come across as rather hypocritical, sanctimonious and spineless-particularly to those open about their sexuality and HIV status, I really don’t see why such person’s opinion/judgment should carry any less weight solely due to the fact that he’s closeted –especially when no one disputes the fact that it is wrong to cheat on your wife and put her at risk of STDs.

While it is courageous, praiseworthy and commendable to be open about your sexuality and/or HIV status, it is unfair to expect the same from each and every person because everyone is different (no two people have the same definition of 'sexuality' or 'morality') and has different circumstances. It is one thing to label someone as spineless due to being closeted but quite another to regard that as some sort of character flaw that automatically disqualifies such person from forming an opinion (or invalidates an opinion) that 99% of people would have formed anyway.

I do agree with Nestor. Valmont was very brave in laying all the cards out here never once did he not accept blame or deny responsibility. LM, had you just been a little compassionate with him rather than adopt an insulting tone and call him 'selfish' etc I doubt you'd have gotten the responses you have.

That said, Valmont, like I said before, I think you should convince your wife to get tested soon. That's the most important.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 07:38:56 AM by spacebarsux »
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Offline buginme2

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #109 on: August 05, 2011, 06:11:30 AM »
Large meat lovers pizza and 10 barbeque chicken wings.

Oops, sorry, thought I was posting on the Papa John's online ordering website...

 ::)

Dude, a Large meat lovers AND chicken wings!  Watch out or you might end up with a coronary.  

Ooh I love that papa johns garlic dipping sauce though
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 06:13:56 AM by buginme2 »

Offline BT65

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #110 on: August 05, 2011, 06:17:53 AM »
Except for the way I addressed Valmont, for I did get pissed off with his story,

He who is without sin can cast the first stone.  I doubt you have that right.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline bocker3

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #111 on: August 05, 2011, 07:47:07 AM »
Mike, if I may address you as such, I have no intent on being "right". But as I've said, comparing both things is completely absurd. Why would I have to tell someone I'm bisexual? Really, that's why I'm saying this must be a cultural thing, because it just doesn't make sense to me. I didn't deceive anyone because it's simply none of their business. Do I suddenly owe someone this disclosure? Perhaps you could say that in a relationship, and I would agree. But even if I didn't, I still think it's crazy to compare that to putting someone at risk for STDs. It's not just emotions we're talking about, but someone's health. Calling me dishonest because of that is completely out of order. There is something called personal, and I'm pretty sure none of you disclose every single aspect of your life to someone the first time you meet them, and I don't see how this is any different.

The fact is that this isn't about how I talked to Valmont. He dealt well with it, why can't you? Call me rude, insensitive, or whatever, but saying I can't criticize someone because I'm dishonest for not disclosing my sexuality to others is just crazy.

You have, once more, either missed or ignored my point.  You are focused on the message, I am focused on the tone and intent.  I am focused on your take that your dishonesty (withholding information is acceptable, yet just as dishonest as Valmont's -- the consequences may be different, but the dishonesty is EXACTLY the same) is "acceptable" because YOU have decided for OTHERS what they would or would not find "hurtful".  You have taken all choice away from them -- just like Valmont.  Again, I am not comparing potential consequences. 

Bottomline -- you have the right to do as you wish -- so does Valmont.  You have the right to respond to Valmont too - I don't disagree with your message to him.  What I take issue with is your sanctimoneous attitude.  It is not absurd to compare your decision to not give your tricks full disclosure from his -- again, consequences are a different subject.  Although, I suspect that you, like most of us, have withheld some disclosures that might have had some serious consequences too.....  so just take a breathe and stop personalizing what others may have done (which seems to be the root of your anger).  What he did really isn't about you -- unless you are afraid that his actions reflect poorly on you, as a bisexual.  And if that is the case -- your being in the closet reflects poorly on me, as a "non-straight" person -- becuase it reinforces that not being straight is "bad".

Hopefully, you see a little of what I am trying to get across.  I hope so -- because I'm done explaining now.

Mike
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Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #112 on: August 05, 2011, 12:20:40 PM »
You are completely oblivious to his sensitive issue as how terrible he feels for the situation that he is in rather you were worried about how he gives bisexuality a bad name. At one point, he said something like ‘may be it was not such a good idea to tell the story’.  So, please (I am not judging you here), before you post your comments, at least try to be sensitive to whom are you making comments about.



Since2005, I read your thread and was going to say something, but then it developed a lot, I got stuck in this thread, so I didn't go there. But anyway, do seek help, your health comes first and you can't keep it waiting any longer. If you ever want to share anything or just talk, feel free to PM me.

Now, I wasn't completely oblivious, I was aware. But he said he wasn't even sure if he were selfish. I couldn't hold it in me if he is still questioning if the was selfish or not because he sure was. Damn right he should be upset about it. That done, I repeat my point: now that he is aware of the mistake he's done, he should take care he doesn't do it again, thinking of his family first. What I said about "giving bisexuality a bad name" was never the main point, just a side comment.

Not long ago, I remember one guy who came here and said he had cheated on his wife, gave her HIV+ and she still continued with him. Then, he said something like he didn't love her anymore, had another mistress and didn't tell her yet he was HIV+ and he was thinking of leaving his wife, etc. Well, anyway, no one showed him any compassion. People wouldn't show compassion for someone who admitted here that they had murdered someone as well, even if he regretted it, for example.

Now, sure, I slapped him. But before and now I was still willing to give words of advice. It's not the first time he posts in the community or reports what happened. I didn't like what he did and didn't attack him the first time he told it, I knew it wasn't easy for him and said nothing. I even gave advice in other threads. But I thought he needed to be reminded of his mistake if he's not sure about it.

And I don't mind anyone questioning me about that. But I didn't see the people attacking me, for completely unrelated reasons, showing Valmont any compassion. They didn't give a damn. In fact, I seldom see these people giving a damn about anyone's problems here. What I regularly see is an attitude of feeling superior, better than others because they are HIV+ for longer. And now because they are open about their sexuality or HIV status. They accuse me of personalizing what he did, yet they personalize the fact I'm not open about my sexuality of HIV status. It's just like you and spacebarsux expressed, and I think this answers him as well.

Just the same for BT65. Sure, you may question my right of casting a stone, like you said. But you see, I judged his actions and still wished the best for him. I wouldn't deny any words of wisdom or compassion and repeatedly I didn't. Regardless, nothing gives anyone the right to judge me as a person, as some have here. And I don't see you upset about that.

I am focused on your take that your dishonesty (withholding information is acceptable, yet just as dishonest as Valmont's -- the consequences may be different, but the dishonesty is EXACTLY the same) is "acceptable" because YOU have decided for OTHERS what they would or would not find "hurtful".  You have taken all choice away from them -- just like Valmont.  Again, I am not comparing potential consequences. 

Mike, I'll highlight just this part because what you keep saying and repeated here is just out of this world. If my words aren't enough for you grasp the absurd you are saying, please read what Nestor, since2005 and spacebarsux have said. I'm very glad they have said something about it, because or else, I'd think I was crazy. There is still sanity in this world.

Online Joe K

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #113 on: August 05, 2011, 12:53:29 PM »
If it's someone who has issues, it looks like it's you. Grow up and take responsibility for your own actions without expecting the same from others.

I have a few other thoughts. Your quote above really gave me pause and I wonder if you truly believe what you wrote.  The reason I ask is that I agree with taking responsibility for my own actions, but I also expect the same from others.  I cannot control what others do and say, as that is not my job.  But if I am to rely on what someone tells me, or their actions, then it does indeed matter what they do and say.  I am not suggesting that anyone must think or believe as I do, however, if they are unable to honestly share with me their beliefs, how am I ever going to make an informed decision of deciding to be with that person?

The same could be said for passing judgement on others in the forum.  Valmount was honest with his wife, regarding his sexuality and for that he is to be commended.  His cheating and subsequent infection is a matter between him and his wife exclusively.  That is not to say that his cheating was right, because he may be putting his wife at risk for infection, and comments reflecting disdain for his actions are proper when done in a compassionate way.  I think that maybe you are confusing a few issues and personalizing some issues that are of concern to you.  Just some food for thought.

One last thing.  I find it most distasteful when anyone suggests that people who are open about their sexuality or whatever have no right to comment on those who choose to remain closeted.  The folks who are open about being gay or bi or poz, do a great service to all those similarly affected, because they put a face to the issue.  Without the people, who stand against unjust authority, all of our lives would be much poorer.  The people who refuse to be cowed by intolerance, are the ones who truly affect change.  It does not mean they are any better than anyone else, however it does mean they deserve our utmost respect for their actions.

A rising tide lifts ALL boats.   

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #114 on: August 05, 2011, 02:40:38 PM »
One last thing.  I find it most distasteful when anyone suggests that people who are open about their sexuality or whatever have no right to comment on those who choose to remain closeted.  The folks who are open about being gay or bi or poz, do a great service to all those similarly affected, because they put a face to the issue.  Without the people, who stand against unjust authority, all of our lives would be much poorer.  The people who refuse to be cowed by intolerance, are the ones who truly affect change.  It does not mean they are any better than anyone else, however it does mean they deserve our utmost respect for their actions.

A rising tide lifts ALL boats.  

Agreed, almost in whole. Except that, passing comment on those who are closeted about their sexuality or HIV status should never turn into denigrating attacks or belittling someone for the same which is just as unsavoury. Everyone has unique perspective on these issues and not everyone wants to be the poster boy for gay rights and/or HIV stigma reduction and that in no way makes them any less of a human being or makes their views any less valid.

I'm sorry, but you can't say you are Gandhi for a cause and yet act like Hitler (and say that is not just fine but a 'right') in order for you to advance that cause.

Ps- I am open to most friends about being gay not completely open about being poz
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 04:32:35 PM by spacebarsux »
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Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #115 on: August 05, 2011, 02:45:30 PM »
I have a few other thoughts. Your quote above really gave me pause and I wonder if you truly believe what you wrote.  The reason I ask is that I agree with taking responsibility for my own actions, but I also expect the same from others.  I cannot control what others do and say, as that is not my job.  But if I am to rely on what someone tells me, or their actions, then it does indeed matter what they do and say.  I am not suggesting that anyone must think or believe as I do, however, if they are unable to honestly share with me their beliefs, how am I ever going to make an informed decision of deciding to be with that person?

The same could be said for passing judgement on others in the forum.  Valmount was honest with his wife, regarding his sexuality and for that he is to be commended.  His cheating and subsequent infection is a matter between him and his wife exclusively.  That is not to say that his cheating was right, because he may be putting his wife at risk for infection, and comments reflecting disdain for his actions are proper when done in a compassionate way.  I think that maybe you are confusing a few issues and personalizing some issues that are of concern to you.  Just some food for thought.

One last thing.  I find it most distasteful when anyone suggests that people who are open about their sexuality or whatever have no right to comment on those who choose to remain closeted.  The folks who are open about being gay or bi or poz, do a great service to all those similarly affected, because they put a face to the issue.  Without the people, who stand against unjust authority, all of our lives would be much poorer.  The people who refuse to be cowed by intolerance, are the ones who truly affect change.  It does not mean they are any better than anyone else, however it does mean they deserve our utmost respect for their actions.

A rising tide lifts ALL boats.  

Joe, it's good you quoted that phrase because I think it explains much of this.

I didn't really get your point in the first paragraph, but remember I've advocated disclosing to a partner in a relationship, as I have done so. I just think it's mental to call me dishonest for not telling everyone I meet I'm bisexual. Or HIV+.

Now, the point was never about if Valmont disclosed to his wife if he was bisexual or not (that didn't mean she accepted an open relationship), but that he cheated on his wife, had an accident or not with the condom and continued to have unprotected sex with her. You say what I did was not proper because I didn't do it in a compassionate way. I accept that criticism, as I have repeatedly. But that didn't give anyone the right to attack me for something completely unrelated and they surely lacked compassion.

Not only them, but you have also been unkind to people seeking help. I've already mentioned this thread, but remember the "help me" thread, by this guy "depressed derek"? You were pretty severe with him. And that's not the first time I saw you doing that.

But I don't think you were wrong. I certainly don't condemn you for that, as some actions people take bother us and we think the best thing is to scold them. But then some people keep on saying I'm "personalizing" some issues. Like I said, many people think that bisexuals are gay men that lead a double life, married to a woman and having sex with men on the side. And then, usually the man goes, gets an STD and infects his wife. I've always been strongly against this, so it bothers me to see someone has done that. If you wish to call that "personalizing", be it as it may. What he did bothered me just as what that derek guy did bothered you.

But how ever you may wish to call it, the same was done to me. Some people who are open about their sexuality or their HIV status, and who seem to have a very strong view about this, were bothered by the fact that I was not and attacked me for it. And for no reason. Instead of saying I was unkind to Valmont, they attacked for something completely unrelated. Don't you think that's "personalizing" as well"? I think it's even worse, because it was not even the topic and it was raised for the 2nd time in a different thread to assault me.

You say it is a matter between him and his wife, and it is. He questioned himself if he was selfish, and all I did was affirm that he had been indeed selfish. And he agreed with me. What the others did was completely uncalled for, and exactly as it is his and his wife's matter, what I decide to do about disclosing or not facts about my life is my problem only. I have not once complained, moped or asked anyone's opinion about that. Yet, some people thought they had the right to assault me anyway. You think they have the right to comment about it. Well, perhaps they could, but not attacking, and I certainly didn't see any compassion in it, just an attempt to patronize me.

Finally, no one is doing me a great service by being openly gay, bi, poz, or whatever. I owe them nothing and they have no right to think I do. I have already said this, but being open about that doesn't make you an activist for gay rights or HIV+ rights. Many people who are openly gay decided to be so because it made their life easier. Many people who are openly poz are so because they didn't have much choice. I certainly respect and admire those who are fighting for these rights, and I do too, as I've mentioned before. Being "in the closet" doesn't stop me from fighting for them, and it certainly hasn't, as I know I've done much more that some who may go on Parades with assless chaps. So no, no one has the right to think or act like they are better than others just because they are open about things of their life.

So my quote expresses just that. It looks like some people have issues with me not being openly bisexual, as irrelevant as it may be to their lives. If someone has decided to be open about that or whatever in their lives, that person should take responsibility for his actions and not expect the others to do the same because they think they are the righteous ones. The mature thing to do is to respect people's different perspectives, what certainly hasn't happened here.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2011, 02:55:58 PM by LM »

Offline bocker3

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #116 on: August 05, 2011, 03:14:04 PM »
Finally, no one is doing me a great service by being openly gay, bi, poz, or whatever. I owe them nothing and they have no right to think I do. I have already said this, but being open about that doesn't make you an activist for gay rights or HIV+ rights. Many people who are openly gay decided to be so because it made their life easier. Many people who are openly poz are so because they didn't have much choice. I certainly respect and admire those who are fighting for these rights, and I do too, as I've mentioned before. Being "in the closet" doesn't stop me from fighting for them, and it certainly hasn't, as I know I've done much more that some who may go on Parades with assless chaps. So no, no one has the right to think or act like they are better than others just because they are open about things of their life.

Time to call bullshit on you.  Openly, gay, bi, poz, etc folks are absolutely doing you a service.  You may deny it, but they are -- they are, slowly, making it easier for people to live their lives as they are so wired.  If everyone had your spine, we'd still be back in the 50's and 60's were gays would be arrested for being in a "gay bar". 
So -- don't denigrate the word by calling yourself an activist.  You can NOT be an activist and be in the closet.  All that really does is have you out there saying "they" should be treated differently -- "they" deserve the same as "us".  That would be great if you were, in fact straight and negative -- but you are NEITHER straight nor negative.  So all you are doing is enjoying the benefits that the true activists are helping to bring us, yet facing none of the pain to get them.  If you can't see that (I know you won't), then you are even more of dolt than you appear.
Now -- you have every right to remain closeted -- I know everyone can't be out and open -- it took me a good number of years, but don't sit there and say that you own nothing to those that are out.  I stayed in the closet for years out of cowardice -- I didn't want to face ridicule, lose my job, be attacked, whatever it was -- it boiled down to cowardice.  And it still does, sister -- it still does.

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Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #117 on: August 05, 2011, 03:49:00 PM »
Time to call bullshit on you.  Openly, gay, bi, poz, etc folks are absolutely doing you a service.  You may deny it, but they are -- they are, slowly, making it easier for people to live their lives as they are so wired.  If everyone had your spine, we'd still be back in the 50's and 60's were gays would be arrested for being in a "gay bar". 
So -- don't denigrate the word by calling yourself an activist.  You can NOT be an activist and be in the closet.  All that really does is have you out there saying "they" should be treated differently -- "they" deserve the same as "us".  That would be great if you were, in fact straight and negative -- but you are NEITHER straight nor negative.  So all you are doing is enjoying the benefits that the true activists are helping to bring us, yet facing none of the pain to get them.  If you can't see that (I know you won't), then you are even more of dolt than you appear.
Now -- you have every right to remain closeted -- I know everyone can't be out and open -- it took me a good number of years, but don't sit there and say that you own nothing to those that are out.  I stayed in the closet for years out of cowardice -- I didn't want to face ridicule, lose my job, be attacked, whatever it was -- it boiled down to cowardice.  And it still does, sister -- it still does.

Mike

Keep doing a great job judging me and personalizing your experiences onto me. You're just proving my point. Not that it matters to you, but let me share something.

Where I live, a few years ago, we had our first elected Congressman who was openly gay. You know what he did? He made a speech in Congress against gay marriage because he said it didn't work for straight people, so it wouldn't work for gays, who weren't normal. Meanwhile, a mayor of one major city here, gay, but in the closet, worked hard to create services for the gay community, and HIV+.

The first was elected a Congressman because he was a polemic TV show host, despite being gay. The second was elected because people didn't know he was gay. If they knew (unfortunately), he wouldn't be elected. So you tell me, who managed to achieve more?

You don't have to recognize me as an activist. Even if I didn't do anything, it doesn't matter. But I have worked for causes before that did not have anything to do with me, but never did I think anyone owed me for that. Thinking that just because someone is out of the closet is doing me a favor is delusional. But if it makes that person feel better about him/herself, whatever makes him happy. Still, no right to patronize others, like others have already said here.

Offline Since2005

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #118 on: August 05, 2011, 04:18:33 PM »
"Time to call bullshit on you" - This is outright very personal attack to me. LM has acknowledged that he was harsh a bit with Valmont and he accepted the criticism. Whether he is out or in the closet it is his damn personal business as I stated earlier. If you are out and are doing the right things for gays/bi/poz I respect you for that. However, that would in no way or shape give you the right to make him feel lesser (if that’s what he is feeling I assume..). If I had not responded to this now, it would have not been fair to him. Again, for all 'out' guys I have the most respect for you as you have helped made my life easier. Do I owe you anything for that? Absolutely "NO!!" Did you earn my utter respect for that "Damn YES!". As a new member, I have seen so many kindhearted people here who have made me cry for joy for listening what I have to say ( didn’t agree with me but was compassionate and kind...). I want to see the same here repeatedly. We are all this together! If someone says and acknowledge their lacks/ mistakes , we all would have to be able to accept that. My request to you all please lets not continue this fights, we could all have disagreements,  but we all could present that in manner without hurting anyone that is what we all want from this forum. Can we please all just get along?

Online Joe K

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #119 on: August 05, 2011, 05:29:57 PM »
My request to you all please lets not continue this fights, we could all have disagreements,  but we all could present that in manner without hurting anyone that is what we all want from this forum. Can we please all just get along?

I hate to tell you this, but WE ARE getting along.  Please do not confuse strong personalities or language as lacking in having anything real to say. The reality for most of the members on this forum is that being poz is possible the hardest challenge they have faced. We are a world community here and we have members from all points on the globe. At one time, complete strangers, until we discovered this place, that was started by Peter Staley, a poz man, for poz people. To belong here requires only that you are poz or are sensitive to the struggles that being poz represent.

As much as we might like, being courteous and kind does not always work for all people. Just because a poster speaks strongly or directly does not mean they are not showing compassion. Different people need to hear the same message, in a language that they understand. However the message never changes and I urge you to look past the WAY something is said, to the actual CONTENT or what is being said.

When you concentrate on how something is said, I fear you miss the real message. From what I read, people are suggesting that honesty and openness is the best way to manage your life. That people are solely responsible for their own actions and you have a duty to be honest with anyone you want to be intimately involved with. Another recurring idea is the damage it does to live in the closet about anything. It's very tiring living a lie and the added stress, in the end, is simply not worth it.

Other points were made as well, however my focus is that you can pick and choose what you want to hear, but do you really want us to censure others in what they can say? Some people confuse general comments as personal attacks and other refuse to consider the other point of view. That's what a forum is all about. However, I will leave you with this. I've known some of these folks for ten years and a finer group of people you will not find. We don't always get along, but when the going gets rough, these folks will walk through fire with you.

Online Joe K

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #120 on: August 05, 2011, 05:43:04 PM »
I just think it's mental to call me dishonest for not telling everyone I meet I'm bisexual. Or HIV+.

What does the above quote have to do with our discussion? That was said by another poster, but what disappoints me most is you referring to their state of mind as "mental." When you start calling people names, it suggests to me that you simply want to argue. When you reference comments made by others, in replies to my comments, that confuses the issues, because you are also having a conversation with another member, by including their comments, in a reply that does not include them.

I am more than happy to discuss real issues, but I insist on fair debating. Name calling has no place, nor does insinuating that there is something inherently wrong with someone, because you don't like what they said or how they said it. Say what you mean and mean what you say. It's fair to tell someone they are rude, it is not acceptable to call them names. I mean really. That's like so 6th grade.

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #121 on: August 05, 2011, 06:19:44 PM »
What does the above quote have to do with our discussion? That was said by another poster, but what disappoints me most is you referring to their state of mind as "mental." When you start calling people names, it suggests to me that you simply want to argue. When you reference comments made by others, in replies to my comments, that confuses the issues, because you are also having a conversation with another member, by including their comments, in a reply that does not include them.

I am more than happy to discuss real issues, but I insist on fair debating. Name calling has no place, nor does insinuating that there is something inherently wrong with someone, because you don't like what they said or how they said it. Say what you mean and mean what you say. It's fair to tell someone they are rude, it is not acceptable to call them names. I mean really. That's like so 6th grade.

I only replied to you. You talked about responsibilities, and I said I do think I should disclose my sexuality to someone I have a relationship with, but it's crazy to think I'm dishonest if I don't disclose it to everyone. That's it.

But please, Joe, with all due respect, but if you wish to talk to me about the use of the word "mental", you should stop first and criticize all the others who have made much worse comments about me. Go on and start counting them. While you have been dealing with me with respect, you have ignored the nasty and aggressive comments this "fine group of people" has made. I didn't see you once criticizing them.

And despite what you think, there ain't no getting along here. From what I've seen, these folks would not walk through fire with you, but just throw you in it if you don't think like them. That's how they have been acting here, and with all fairness, you're just being cool with it. If you don't think or want to tell your friends they are wrong, I'd rather you just stood aside, because the way I've been treated here has been really unfair.

Offline Valmont

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #122 on: August 05, 2011, 06:50:44 PM »
I read your comments very carrefully, even if I did not made any intervention, most of them are very useful.

Well, sure what I told would have generate many kind of reactions, and I understand it.  But not so sure we needed to argue...

Not in all the place it is possible to live as in Europe or North America, and find many open mind people or regulation, particularly about sexual orientation or HIV...

Personally, I don´t definite me a gay person that live in a hidden situation in a marriage.  I am very happy in the marriage and what I should not have done was going after my curiosity...  For me, this was more a curiosity and physical experience than anything else.  Sorry if I may offend any one, but it is my personal way to feel it and I lived it...  I don´t reconocize myself in "queer world" (no sure of how to define it in english language), even if I respect it and I find it very friendly; and also if I´m aware of its important rol in defense for minorities.

There is another open question, why there are so many men in marriage, having sex with other men and living a doble life?  I´m not sure the answers would be the same depending of the place where you´re living the world...  By this question I also try to understand what happened to me and the values I had when I was 20 and I lost on the way...

I´m trying with my docs to convince my wife to be tested but she does not want for now...  This is actually the thing that makes me very worry and anxious, more that any kind of thing...
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Online Joe K

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #123 on: August 05, 2011, 07:09:28 PM »
I only replied to you. You talked about responsibilities, and I said I do think I should disclose my sexuality to someone I have a relationship with, but it's crazy to think I'm dishonest if I don't disclose it to everyone. That's it.

But please, Joe, with all due respect, but if you wish to talk to me about the use of the word "mental", you should stop first and criticize all the others who have made much worse comments about me. Go on and start counting them. While you have been dealing with me with respect, you have ignored the nasty and aggressive comments this "fine group of people" has made. I didn't see you once criticizing them.

And despite what you think, there ain't no getting along here. From what I've seen, these folks would not walk through fire with you, but just throw you in it if you don't think like them. That's how they have been acting here, and with all fairness, you're just being cool with it. If you don't think or want to tell your friends they are wrong, I'd rather you just stood aside, because the way I've been treated here has been really unfair.

You still don't get it. Just because others criticize you, does not give you the right to call others names. You cannot claim moral superiority when you do the exact same thing. My discussion is with you and I have not called you names, nor attacked you personally. I am not responsible for what others say and if someone offends me, I'll tell they WHY they offended me, but I would never resort to name calling. People are so quick to judgement sometimes and I hope you stay long enough to see who truly resides here.

We are people living with HIV/AIDS and nobody said that life would be easy. Interaction breeds engagement and conflict and if we ever hope to have meaningful discussion it sometimes means checking your ego at the door. No matter how conflicted a thread can become, if you read closely enough, there is always an underlying message that contains more fact than fiction. Everyone can be rude, sometimes intentionally, but often not and I tend to give folks the benefit of the doubt. But what really seals it for me, is these folks not only tell me what I want to hear, they often tell me what I need to here. It may not be pretty, or even kind, but I need friends like these, because you are prejudging folks from one or two threads, and you are very wrong in what you assume is happening to you.

I am not suggesting you have no right to how you feel, only that you are incorrect about the intent.

Offline Ann

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #124 on: August 06, 2011, 07:32:35 AM »
We don't always get along, but when the going gets rough, these folks will walk through fire with you.

Preach, Joe! We've both seen it happen time and time again. That's this forum's strength. We really are like a family, and just like families we don't always agree, but we always have each other's backs.

And despite what you think, there ain't no getting along here. From what I've seen, these folks would not walk through fire with you, but just throw you in it if you don't think like them. That's how they have been acting here, and with all fairness, you're just being cool with it. If you don't think or want to tell your friends they are wrong, I'd rather you just stood aside, because the way I've been treated here has been really unfair.

With all due respect, LM, you've not really been here long enough to make that sort of judgement. Like Joe, I've been here for over ten years and I've witnessed first-hand how much support - and sometimes much needed tough love - goes on around here, despite any incidental bickering. There have even been times where people have gone above and beyond, such as when one member bought another member a new lap-top so she could stay in touch with this forum, the only support available to her.

I've also witnessed many a time when someone was initially offended by the tough love they received, only to come back days, weeks or even months later to say, "thanks, that was what I really needed, even if I didn't want to hear it at the time".

Nobody here is out to get you and I'm quite sure if you found yourself in a jam, someone here would go out of their way to help you - and that person or persons would be very likely to include at least one of the people who you have been offended by.
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Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #125 on: August 06, 2011, 11:27:22 AM »

Basically it boils down to being spineless or not -- so if one lacks a bit of spine maybe it's not a great idea to throw around petty judgements.

I'm just suggesting if you are a closet fag with the butt flu

Are you honestly that daft?

By the way, it's you that seems miserable, unhappy, and dissatisfied with the sexual space you attempt to inhabit.

The truth is the truth and you can not pick and choose how to apply it to appease your guilty conscience about pretending to be some thing you are not . 

You are a bit of a piece of work, aren't you??  you are berating others who you think are "judging you" by screaming that they don't "know you".  What are you doing???  Judging someone whom you don't know.
come down off your fucking high horse and stop projecting your morals, your standards and your "issues" on others.  You almost NEVER interact with anyone on this site without judgment, venom and anger.  Go find a mirror and have a long, hard look darling.......  if it don't break first.

M

I just think it's real easy to wag a finger in disapproval from the shadows of a closet.

But yeah...it is often repulsive to see folks infect others from the DL.  It's also a wee bit repulsive when some stay in their relative safety while others brave the consequences of being honest about who they are.

Kids leap to their deaths.  Staying silent in the shadows isn't a completely victimless endeavor.

I'm just riding you because I think you need to hop down off your Hobby Horse.  You'll got an unwarranted sense of self righteousness going, sweet pea. 

I get just as fatigued watching bisexuals live comfortably on the side while dipping in when it suits them as you do watching some take reckless chances with others' health.  Very often, the two go hand in hand.

And I don't like seeing people who dare to be honest in a place like this get slapped by people who lack that same courage themselves.

I am focused on your take that your dishonesty (withholding information is acceptable, yet just as dishonest as Valmont's -- the consequences may be different, but the dishonesty is EXACTLY the same) is "acceptable" because YOU have decided for OTHERS what they would or would not find "hurtful".  You have taken all choice away from them -- just like Valmont.  Again, I am not comparing potential consequences. 

Joe, since I didn't think you would count them, I just did that. Find me some love and compassion in there. Compassion was only important when I replied to Valmont, when they replied to me you suggest I look for the "underlying message"? Sorry, but the underlying message was judgement about my character and personal attacks. Luckily, I was not the only one who noticed that.

You know, about what you said I didn't even call someone names, I just said I think it's crazy to call someone dishonest for that. I criticized an action, not even a person. I've read you saying before that you had depression and other problems, so if the use of the word "mental" offended you, even if it was not about you, I apologize. Regardless, I gave you a long reply and the best you could do was to reply about one word I used to criticize me, ignoring all the rest.

I'm not asking you to give up your friendships or nothing of the sort. But since you're not critically looking at what they did, I suggest we just end this discussion, also because I'm tired of it.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #126 on: August 06, 2011, 11:36:52 AM »
words

Sounds to me like you need a blowjob.

If you promise not to post any more of this boring shit I promise to establish a fund which may well see you get your knob gobbled.

Drop me a PM if you're up for it. ::)

MtD

Online Jeff G

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #127 on: August 06, 2011, 11:39:38 AM »
LM...I just love those greatest hits compilations . No one is being nasty to you . I was just pointing out that you are either truthful about who you are as person or not . If you are not then its not a good idea to lecture others about how they choose to live . Your need to be right and never criticized is very telling . If you spent as much time and energy being yourself as you do defending your right to be an incognito gay rights activist we could discuss more pleasant topics .  

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #128 on: August 06, 2011, 11:46:58 AM »
Preach, Joe! We've both seen it happen time and time again. That's this forum's strength. We really are like a family, and just like families we don't always agree, but we always have each other's backs.

With all due respect, LM, you've not really been here long enough to make that sort of judgement. Like Joe, I've been here for over ten years and I've witnessed first-hand how much support - and sometimes much needed tough love - goes on around here, despite any incidental bickering. There have even been times where people have gone above and beyond, such as when one member bought another member a new lap-top so she could stay in touch with this forum, the only support available to her.

I've also witnessed many a time when someone was initially offended by the tough love they received, only to come back days, weeks or even months later to say, "thanks, that was what I really needed, even if I didn't want to hear it at the time".

Nobody here is out to get you and I'm quite sure if you found yourself in a jam, someone here would go out of their way to help you - and that person or persons would be very likely to include at least one of the people who you have been offended by.

Ann, I also suggest you read all I quoted above. I was not judging the whole forum nor everyone here, just what happened now, here, in this thread. And that's the 2nd thread this happened (I can quote from the other thread as well), about the same topic. And this time, it was not even the topic of the thread, it was brought here simply to attack me. So you see, 2nd time, for no reason. I insist: read those quotes, there was no tough love, just personal attacks, trying to patronize me. And you can't say: "oh, but you attacked Valmont...", even if I did (which I didn't, it wasn't a personal attack), it wouldn't justify other attacks. Like I said before: if this is a place only for people who are open to the whole world about their sexuality and HIV status, I'll leave with no complaints. I know it's not your view, nor it is of most here. But it seems a small group of people tends to think this way, that my opinion is worth less than that of others, and if they are going to chase me in different threads over that, I don't see the point.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #129 on: August 06, 2011, 12:11:04 PM »
Ann, I also suggest you read all I quoted above. I was not judging the whole forum nor everyone here, just what happened now, here, in this thread. And that's the 2nd thread this happened (I can quote from the other thread as well), about the same topic. And this time, it was not even the topic of the thread, it was brought here simply to attack me. So you see, 2nd time, for no reason. I insist: read those quotes, there was no tough love, just personal attacks, trying to patronize me. And you can't say: "oh, but you attacked Valmont...", even if I did (which I didn't, it wasn't a personal attack), it wouldn't justify other attacks. Like I said before: if this is a place only for people who are open to the whole world about their sexuality and HIV status, I'll leave with no complaints. I know it's not your view, nor it is of most here. But it seems a small group of people tends to think this way, that my opinion is worth less than that of others, and if they are going to chase me in different threads over that, I don't see the point.

Jesus H. Particular Christ. ::)

How do you actually get out of bed in the morning? Paralysed as you must be by your own self indulgence, you quivering great tit.

You know, there was a time when I used to think physical violence in a same sex relationships was a bad thing but seeing the concentrated drivel that you post I now know that the greatest crime your last boyfriend committed wasn't hitting you.

His real sin is that he didn't hit you hard enough.

MtD >:(


Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #130 on: August 06, 2011, 12:18:07 PM »
There is another open question, why there are so many men in marriage, having sex with other men and living a doble life?  I´m not sure the answers would be the same depending of the place where you´re living the world...  By this question I also try to understand what happened to me and the values I had when I was 20 and I lost on the way...

I´m trying with my docs to convince my wife to be tested but she does not want for now...  This is actually the thing that makes me very worry and anxious, more that any kind of thing...

I think it's like Joe said. If you're not true to yourself, you can't be true to someone else in a relationship. I think many men don't deal well with their bisexuality, never discuss it, so they express it in an unhealthy way, that is, cheating on their wives. I think therapy may be a good way to try to understand these feelings.

LM...I just love those greatest hits compilations . No one is being nasty to you . I was just pointing out that you are either truthful about who you are as person or not . If you are not then its not a good idea to lecture others about how they choose to live . Your need to be right and never criticized is very telling . If you spent as much time and energy being yourself as you do defending your right to be an incognito gay rights activist we could discuss more pleasant topics .  

You see, re-read all you wrote and check how much judgment you're passing on me. You think I'm not truthful to myself and that I think I need to be right and never criticized. The fact is that your personalizing your issues on me. Just on a different thread I was reading what you said about how it was different when you came out, that it was great, whatever. You see, you believe you weren't truthful to yourself until you were openly gay and you think it's the same for me.

I insist: you don't know me, although you try to think you do. I don't have to explain the following to you for myself, but I think you need to read it so you learn how to respect other people's perspectives and not think everyone is like you.

You probably think I run in the shadows, hiding everything I do, where I go, my gestures, everything. And really, that couldn't be farther from the truth. My closest friends know I'm bisexual, so from them I have nothing to hide. The other people don't know me that well, so what information do I owe them? I'm discrete by nature, so it's not like I hold myself when I see a hot man and think "oh, I can't look at him or else people think I'm bisexual!". You probably think that if someone asks me if I'm gay, that I freak out and go "no, I'm straight!! Want a piece of me?!". No one really asks that, but when they do, I just say "what do you care about it?". And then they just assume I'm straight because I go out with girls. Also, some people assume I'm gay because I frequently write and speak about gay rights, but I don't go correcting them, if they want to think I am, it's their problem.

I don't need to expose personal aspects of my life to the rest of society so I know who I am. I save these for the people who matter. If you have a different take on it, good for you, but it works for you, not for the whole world, and you should know that. So you see, I don't have a need to be right, because there is no right way in this, just as there is no wrong way. How ever you decide to express personal aspects of your life is a personal choice. Yet, you and a few others kept saying I was wrong, and of course I won't accept that. It's absurd to judge my character over something like that.

And finally, criticize me all you want, you can see I accepted the criticism for how I dealt with Valmont before. Instead of criticizing me for that, you chose to attack for something completely unrelated. So I'm sorry, but that's the kind of criticism I don't accept well, and yes, people, you included, were very nasty while doing that, as you can see in the "greatest hits".



PS: Oh, and Matty, go find something to play with. I appreciated the offer of the blowjob before, you should have ended there.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #131 on: August 06, 2011, 12:23:33 PM »
blah-de-blah

My doctor says I'm running to fat and that swimming might be in my best interests.

In that spirit, I'm thinking of paddling across the Pacific Ocean, hauling my enormous frame up the continental shelf and tracking you down.

Just so I might have the pleasure of ripping your bladder out and wearing it as a hat.

Y'know, just for something to do.

MtD

« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 12:26:39 PM by Matty the Damned »

Online Jeff G

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #132 on: August 06, 2011, 12:33:36 PM »
I have heard of asshats but never one made from a bladder ... sounds kinda Eskimo to me .

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #133 on: August 06, 2011, 12:38:26 PM »
My doctor says I'm running to fat and that swimming might be in my best interests.

In that spirit, I'm thinking of paddling across the Pacific Ocean, hauling my enormous frame up the continental shelf and tracking you down.

Just so I might have the pleasure of ripping your bladder out and wearing it as a hat.

Y'know, just for something to do.

MtD



Actually, you would have to cross all the way to other coast and paddle across the Atlantic Ocean. Just some geographical help for you. Right now I find myself in a coastal town, so it might make your job easier. All in all, good luck and have a nice trip.

Online Joe K

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #134 on: August 06, 2011, 12:39:35 PM »
LM, I'm sorry I have nothing left to offer you, because you are blinded by your rage and indignation. You insist on playing the victim and if you cannot understand how inappropriate it is to call others names, or to argue the substance of what is said, rather than how it is said, then what do you want from us? I take no offense to the word "mental" only in the context in which you used it. FYI, I'm one of the mental health nuts around here and I wear my depression on my sleeve. I do that so others will hopefully realize that here is no shame in mental illness, only the sorrow of not treating it.

I never said you did not receive some harsh comments, I only asked that you look through the actual language, to the content. You cannot read for content, when you are so busy reading, looking for justifications as to why others have no right to say what they feel or think. You could have handled this very differently, by simply acknowledging that there may be some truth in what others have said. However, you choose not to do that and I can't help you. I'm not sure that anyone can. You have allowed your rage to cloud your reason and to me, that is the greatest loss of all.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #135 on: August 06, 2011, 12:50:13 PM »
Actually, you would have to cross all the way to other coast and paddle across the Atlantic Ocean. Just some geographical help for you. Right now I find myself in a coastal town, so it might make your job easier. All in all, good luck and have a nice trip.

Pacific ocean, Atlantic ocean -- how about I just extend my enormous arm of vengeance across time and space to rip both your eyes out so I can shove them down your trousers so that you might watch as I kick the shit out of your prostate?

How will that work for you? Please check in with my Secretary for the Correction of Utter Fuckheads, she's doing a job lot this month.

And whilst we're apportioning blame, how is it that the rest of us are responsible for you being so fucking dumb as to lay an egg of pure AIDS fuck in your own fucking nest?

Explain that to us, oh Great Knower of Things.

MtD
(Who is about to have a massive stroke)

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #136 on: August 06, 2011, 01:06:11 PM »
LM, I'm sorry I have nothing left to offer you, because you are blinded by your rage and indignation. You insist on playing the victim and if you cannot understand how inappropriate it is to call others names, or to argue the substance of what is said, rather than how it is said, then what do you want from us? I take no offense to the word "mental" only in the context in which you used it. FYI, I'm one of the mental health nuts around here and I wear my depression on my sleeve. I do that so others will hopefully realize that here is no shame in mental illness, only the sorrow of not treating it.

I never said you did not receive some harsh comments, I only asked that you look through the actual language, to the content. You cannot read for content, when you are so busy reading, looking for justifications as to why others have no right to say what they feel or think. You could have handled this very differently, by simply acknowledging that there may be some truth in what others have said. However, you choose not to do that and I can't help you. I'm not sure that anyone can. You have allowed your rage to cloud your reason and to me, that is the greatest loss of all.

No rage here, really, but I don't think you are aware of the contradiction you're making. I didn't even call someone names, I criticized a certain opinion. Be it as it may, you criticize me for calling names and ask me to look for the content of the message in which people were calling me names. Like "don't do this, but never mind they are doing it too". You are ignoring this fact. Of course things would have been different if I acknowledged what they said, and that would be accept that I'm a lesser person than they are, that my opinion is no good. The point, as many have already identified, was that my opinion is no good because I'm not out of the closet like them. If you think there was different content, only you, really, and you're free to tell me what that is. But if you think there is some truth in that, then you agree, and like I said, there is no point then.



PS: Matty, didn't really get your last question, I think you got over-excited with your metaphors. Good luck on the stroke, though.

Offline MYSTERY

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #137 on: August 06, 2011, 01:13:18 PM »
I must say at times in this so called "family" I have felt like the RED HEADED STEP CHILD..... ;D
Atheist don't believe in GOD, but GOD believes in them and loves them. Never let the failure of man conflict with your love of GOD.

Online Jeff G

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #138 on: August 06, 2011, 01:15:03 PM »
Of course things would have been different if I acknowledged what they said, and that would be accept that I'm a lesser person than they are, that my opinion is no good.

 The crux of the matter .

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #139 on: August 06, 2011, 01:17:02 PM »
I must say at times in this so called "family" I have felt like the RED HEADED STEP CHILD..... ;D

And just as we we're talking about confessional butt secks! Hai MYSTERY!!! :)

PS: Matty, didn't really get your last question, I think you got over-excited with your metaphors. Good luck on the stroke, though.

Of course you didn't. It was written in fucking English.

That you don't have a have a capable grasp of the language is not something I can easily condemn you for.

But I'll try.

And trying is the word. You try to avoid the point as nimbly as a 13 year old altar boy avoids the bell end of his confessor.

But, as MYSTERY will tell you, you'll always get cornered in the sacristy. So enlighten us, were you born this tedious or did you collect the skill along the way?

MtD

Offline mecch

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #140 on: August 06, 2011, 01:25:23 PM »
I nominate this thread for Train Wreck of the Summer.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline MYSTERY

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #141 on: August 06, 2011, 01:31:55 PM »
I am hear to SAVE it meech. I don't want to loose my title as forum wiping 'boy'....LM might think he is giving me a run for my money.....LMAO!!!!!!.....Just an update on me, I just got done with the AIDS ride and met alot of really nice people along with raising a little money. I really enjoyed talking to many wonderful people with interesting stories. It was a blessing.
Atheist don't believe in GOD, but GOD believes in them and loves them. Never let the failure of man conflict with your love of GOD.

Offline LM

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #142 on: August 06, 2011, 01:33:29 PM »
And just as we we're talking about confessional butt secks! Hai MYSTERY!!! :)

Of course you didn't. It was written in fucking English.

That you don't have a have a capable grasp of the language is not something I can easily condemn you for.

But I'll try.

And trying is the word. You try to avoid the point as nimbly as a 13 year old altar boy avoids the bell end of his confessor.

But, as MYSTERY will tell you, you'll always get cornered in the sacristy. So enlighten us, were you born this tedious or did you collect the skill along the way?

MtD

You know, I wouldn't doubt if I knew more English than you do, you don't seem very educated. But do enlighten me on the point you say I nimbly avoid.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #143 on: August 06, 2011, 01:35:19 PM »
I nominate this thread for Train Wreck of the Summer.

As opposed to the junkyard you so loosely refer to as an apartment? Don't get crushed under your spare chandelier.

I am hear to SAVE it meech. I don't want to loose my title as forum wiping 'boy'....LM might think he is giving me a run for my money.....LMAO!!!!!!.....Just an update on me, I just got done with the AIDS ride and met alot of really nice people along with raising a little money. I really enjoyed talking to many wonderful people with interesting stories. It was a blessing.

Settle down Mary. LM is a far worthier foe than you. Unlike the altar boys you subvert, he takes it like a man.

MtD

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #144 on: August 06, 2011, 01:36:35 PM »
You know, I wouldn't doubt if I knew more English than you do, you don't seem very educated. But do enlighten me on the point you say I nimbly avoid.

Be quiet. I've moved on to monstering the Swiss pervert.

MtD

Offline MYSTERY

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #145 on: August 06, 2011, 01:48:44 PM »
 ;D....Matty you are to much...jajaja!!!
Atheist don't believe in GOD, but GOD believes in them and loves them. Never let the failure of man conflict with your love of GOD.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #146 on: August 06, 2011, 02:03:29 PM »
;D....Matty you are to much...jajaja!!!

Shut your cock holster or I swear you'll truly understand the meaning of the phrase "sorrowful mysteries".

MtD

Offline MYSTERY

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #147 on: August 06, 2011, 02:12:05 PM »
What is a cock holster?...... ??? ???
Atheist don't believe in GOD, but GOD believes in them and loves them. Never let the failure of man conflict with your love of GOD.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #148 on: August 06, 2011, 02:14:20 PM »
What is a cock holster?...... ??? ???

The hole in your head the priest stuck his dick in. Civilised folks call it a mouth.

The other two holes you don't use are called your "ears".

MtD

Offline MYSTERY

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #149 on: August 06, 2011, 02:22:53 PM »
LMAO!!!...Thanks for the info Matty.
Atheist don't believe in GOD, but GOD believes in them and loves them. Never let the failure of man conflict with your love of GOD.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #150 on: August 06, 2011, 02:30:30 PM »
LMAO!!!...Thanks for the info Matty.

Not at all. In another lifetime you'd be thanking me for the massive dump of spunk I'd have laid on your alb.

But, alas, I wasn't called to orders.

Fuckity-bye!

MtD

Offline MYSTERY

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #151 on: August 06, 2011, 02:42:10 PM »
I am pleased to see that you think I would have had such a high calling. I assume you think I am a Priest from your comment "orders". I was not called and lived outside of that grace. I do thank you Matty with that compliment. As for the other comment regarding a "massive dump of spunk" your words truly reflect your intelligence and respect for yourself in charity. It is to bad that you can not communicate on a higher level. Your still one of my favorites!!.... ;D...I imagine being Facebook friends is out of the question. That would have been the only opportunity you would have ever had to "poke"me sweety......LMAO!!!!!! :P
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 02:47:28 PM by MYSTERY »
Atheist don't believe in GOD, but GOD believes in them and loves them. Never let the failure of man conflict with your love of GOD.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #152 on: August 06, 2011, 03:01:19 PM »
I am pleased to see that you think I would have had such a high calling. I assume you think I am a Priest from your comment "orders". I was not called and lived outside of that grace. I do thank you Matty with that compliment. As for the other comment regarding a "massive dump of spunk" your words truly reflect your intelligence and respect for yourself in charity. It is to bad that you can not communicate on a higher level. Your still one of my favorites!!.... ;D...I imagine being Facebook friends is out of the question. That would have been the only opportunity you would have ever had to "poke"me sweety......LMAO!!!!!! :P

Well of course you've lived outside the state of grace. How else would you have contracted AIDS?

You continue to do so. Sure, you've taken absolution but both you and I know you didn't really repent. And if your repentence isn't true, it doesn't count.

That's why you're here. In the hope of spotting someone less worthy than yourself.

And you care. You feel it.

I may play the southern preacher, but I was born a Catholic and I know what you are.

You're terrified. You feel the rough kiss of the scapula. You worry the Rosary beads between your sinful fingers.

But it won't save you. You are intrinsically disordered. You offend the Lord.

You and I both know that you will dwell for an eternity outside of His Grace.

So will I. But I do it out of sheer bloody mindedness.

You do it because that's what God has apportioned to you. :)

MtD

Offline MYSTERY

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #153 on: August 06, 2011, 03:25:50 PM »
LMAO!!!!!!!!! That was WONDERFUL....I loved it!!!!!!.....The "rough kiss of the scapula"  :D :D :D. You are right Matty I am a sinner. I fall short of the glory of God. Have I repented?..Yes!!...I have used my sins to show FAITH. I have used my repentance to glorify God and unite myself with the CROSS. Only God can judge my acts of repentance, not even the "southern preacher" can. The Rosary would be a source of cleansing for my sinfulness. Reflecting on the Passions of Christ only brings PEACE. I am disordered, I will agree with you. However, I try to learn from my mistakes so I can help others with Charity and Love. God is LOVE and we are the only ones to turn away from LOVE and reject it. No one can makes us love or accept love. Do I offend God?....I only offend my true nature in what I was designed to do and that is LOVE everyone unconditionally....At times I have failed, but I try to accomplish what God's will is for me. I would hope that you will not stand outside of God's love and reject what it is that you were made for. It will be only up to you if you stand outside of grace and reject it. To say I will stand next to you is unrealistic because you do not know me. I would only hope the best for YOU... :)....I would hope that you do not feel that everyone with HIV/AIDS are not worthy of the grace of God. That is not true. We are afforded the same grace as anyone else. I would never assume someone who had HIV/AIDS contracted it because of sin. First off, it would be none of my buisness. Secondly, I would love them the same as God would.
Atheist don't believe in GOD, but GOD believes in them and loves them. Never let the failure of man conflict with your love of GOD.

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #154 on: August 06, 2011, 03:40:07 PM »
Lovely, now Church Lady's morphed this craptastic thread into Sunday Mass.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #155 on: August 06, 2011, 04:03:22 PM »
Lovely, now Church Lady's morphed this craptastic thread into Sunday Mass.


Why not? Let the grace of G_d shine upon all of us sinners.  Our evil ways will be redeemed by the blood of Jeebus.

Meh.  Fuck it.  I may be The Reverend, but I'm no good at this preaching shit.

I bet however that this LM character is happy to know that Miss Mystery is going to pray for him.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #156 on: August 06, 2011, 04:06:30 PM »
MYSTERY, I am poor unfortunate soul born in a land of uncivilised pagans who follow barbaric heathen practices. Would your God still love an AIDS victim like me even though my God looks like this?

« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 04:31:44 PM by spacebarsux »
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline MYSTERY

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #157 on: August 06, 2011, 05:01:24 PM »
Hi Miss Philicia!!!!!! ::)

How are ya?....Well, I did not intend this to turn into "Mass", as it has not, because the Eucharist is not present. I would also add I have no such authority to exercise Transubstantiation. If you would look at some of the previous posts, you would notice I was concerned that LM might have taken the crown of "wiping boy" on this site. I felt a little concerned and had to make an appearance to see if I still held the crown... ;D....At the very least, I had to take some pressure off the poor boy.....Matty also had a need to exchange ideas concerning his spectacular view of salvation and other miscellaneous stuff he needed to get off his chest.
Atheist don't believe in GOD, but GOD believes in them and loves them. Never let the failure of man conflict with your love of GOD.

Offline MYSTERY

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #158 on: August 06, 2011, 05:05:46 PM »
Spacebarsux,

Everyone takes a bad picture now and then. To answer your question your time will come when you will be able to answer that for yourself. I can promise you that. :o
Atheist don't believe in GOD, but GOD believes in them and loves them. Never let the failure of man conflict with your love of GOD.

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #159 on: August 06, 2011, 05:28:56 PM »
Spacebarsux,

Everyone takes a bad picture now and then. To answer your question your time will come when you will be able to answer that for yourself. I can promise you that. :o

Sorry, but your trying so hard to be mysterious and clever answer makes no fucking sense to my pagan outlook on religion. :)
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline MYSTERY

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #160 on: August 06, 2011, 05:32:58 PM »
Spacebarsux,

I am not really trying that hard. I am rather enjoying myself chatting with some of you. Believe what ever you wish my friend. What I believe would be a hard teaching for a pagan. Pax Tecum... ;D
Atheist don't believe in GOD, but GOD believes in them and loves them. Never let the failure of man conflict with your love of GOD.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: bisexual
« Reply #161 on: August 06, 2011, 05:41:14 PM »
LM, you've made your situation and thoughts clear enough by this point. Maybe you have even gotten some value from the exchanges. But whether or not I think it's time to call a halt on this one.

Matty, you're crossing over the line here with the violent comments and the name calling. I know you know better.
So I am going to remove the potential here for you to get yourself into trouble.

At this point I don't see anything progressive is happening here. To prevent anyone getting more deeply into difficulties I am shutting down this thread now. And I don't want to see it reincarnated in a another or new thread.

Finis.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2011, 06:02:57 PM by Andy Velez »
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