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Author Topic: Steroid Use as a Poz man.  (Read 6401 times)

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Offline 47DegreesNorth

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Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« on: May 19, 2011, 12:48:18 PM »
This may get a lot of guff, but I wanted to know if steroid use effects HIV in any way including the meds. I have recently been infected with HIV about 3 months ago and lost a lot of weight. For over 4 years I have spending a lot of time at the gym, eating healthy and exercising regularly.

Since being diagnosed I lost about 20 pounds, I used to weigh 225 now I'm down in the 200's. I feel like my years of hard work have gone to waste and my confidence level has taken a huge hit.

I did a cycle of steroid use over a year ago and it was really useful. I took the proper liver support and made sure I did it safely. This particular one is legal and is VERY mildly toxic to the liver. But now there is a new variable (HIV) I have to consider. Being newly positive, is using steroids a bad idea? It would surely help out my confidence and help get my mind off being newly infected.


-Eddie

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2011, 01:52:33 PM »
I would make sure you research steroid use and HIV meds before starting. I googled and found this:

http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/feb2006/cc-02.htm

NIH Researchers Find that Combining Steroids with Protease Inhibitors Results in a Drug Interaction that may Increase the Risk of Bone Damage in HIV Patients

A study by researchers at the National Institutes of Health (NIH) indicates that a steroid medication taken with an HIV protease inhibitor may increase the risk of bone damage in HIV-infected patients.

The drug interaction may also increase the risk of Cushingís syndrome, a hormonal disorder caused by prolonged exposure of the body's tissues to high levels of steroids...

Offline newt

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2011, 02:15:06 PM »
Quote
I wanted to know if steroid use effects HIV in any way including the meds

If you mean anabolic, no. The long-term side effects of anabolic steroids remain the same.

Personally, have become a fan of less is more and lots of cardio/nice abs. Especially good in your 40s (like me) and 50s (soon to be me).

I still do 1 annual presciption cycle of testoerone (3 weeks, in winter, for good mood etc :-) ).

- matt (71kg and slightly balding but good with it) the newt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline richie

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2011, 02:33:08 PM »
Eddie --

Here's a book on the subject -- "Built to Survive" written by Michael Mooney and Nelson Virgel. 

http://www.amazon.com/Built-Survive-Comprehensive-Anabolic-Nutrition/dp/0966223101/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305829567&sr=8-1

Michael also has a website dedicated to this issue:

http://www.michaelmooney.net/

I read the book many years ago.....it does have some good points, but I only did a short stint of anabolics.  Personally, I found my taking them to be my own overreaction to my discovery of being pozzie.  Can't answer that question for others.

Michael DOES have a product (or product(s)) to sell, so take whatever he says with that grain of salt.

Good luck!

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2011, 03:19:23 PM »
Looking at the comments on the Amazon website it looks like he is advocating anabolic steroids to treat HIV. I really don't want to read the book, but is that accurate? Does he have science behind this or is his book about using steroids to feel good about yourself?

Offline newt

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2011, 03:43:12 PM »
Nelson has been poz ages but let's just say he has a thick neck

- matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline richie

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2011, 05:27:26 PM »
LOL -- Matt, you're a hoot.  Always love reading your posts.

GSO -- no, he's not a denialist or trying to treat HIV with steroids.  He takes a more wholistic approach, and sees steroids as simply a method that shouldn't be ignored to build muscle mass, which has it's own benefits for HIV+ers.  He's esposes using it to slow or stop some of the metabolic changes HIV can do (wasting, lipo, yada yada yada).  He's actually more a skeptic, and questions status quo thinking (not HIV drugs though).

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2011, 05:49:47 PM »

GSO -- no, he's not a denialist or trying to treat HIV with steroids.  He takes a more wholistic approach, and sees steroids as simply a method that shouldn't be ignored to build muscle mass, which has it's own benefits for HIV+ers.  He's esposes using it to slow or stop some of the metabolic changes HIV can do (wasting, lipo, yada yada yada).  He's actually more a skeptic, and questions status quo thinking (not HIV drugs though).

Just curious, have you ever looked at his facebook page?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Ann

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2011, 07:44:55 PM »
Just curious, have you ever looked at his facebook page?

Link, or you never looked at it yourself.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline odyssey

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2011, 08:41:21 PM »
Just for those who don't know... if your testosterone levels aren't low taking anabolic steroids is only going to screw up your system even more! Excess testosterone in the system is converted into estrogen by some hormone like thingy that I can't remember the name of. So unless your doc says your T levels are low, using it for wasting, etc. is a complete waste of time and will do more harm than good. As for other steroid-like products, ask your doctor! We're not doctors here (well at least I haven't met anyone on here that could prove they were an MD). Your doc may not be thrilled, but he or she should be responsible enough to give you correct medical knowledge/advice so you can make your own informed decision! Good docs will do that!
01/09/09- diagnosed HIV+
01/16/09   CD4-425    22%  VL- 32,415
11/09- started Reyetaz/Norvir/Truvada
03/10- stopped R/N/T
10/18/11   CD4- 328   20%  VL- 84,000
10/25/11   CD4- 386   22%
10/28/11- start Truvada/Reyetaz/Norvir
12/30/11  CD4- 523  29%
03/08/12  CD4- 503  31%  VL 57
07/02/12  CD4- 897  43%
08/31/12  CD4- 745  39%
12/27/12  CD4- 884  40%
03/28/13  CD4- 819  39%
07/19/13  CD4- 739  40%
10/17/13  CD4- 535  36%
01/16/14  CD4- 743  43%

02/14- switched from R/N/T to Tivicay/Epzicom because of CKD 3 suspected from tenofovir.

03/14- switched back to R/N/T due to severe nausea and inability to eat on T/E.
 
04/01/14 CD4- 898  42%   VL-

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2011, 08:58:18 PM »
I took nandrolone (deca-durabolin) twice a month for four years for clinically diagnosed HIV-associated wasting and my testosterone levels were not "technically" below lab limits, though they were at teh low end. Not all anabolic steroids work in the same manner, and this specific one has it's estrogenic effects mitigated because it's a progestin.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2011, 09:02:49 PM »
Just curious, have you ever looked at his facebook page?

That page sounds like it's better than an informercial with a tease like that, Miss P. You should link it for those of us who aren't on the FB bandwagon who are too lazy to google   ;)
don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Offline 47DegreesNorth

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2011, 12:23:56 AM »
Thanks for all the replies guys! I appreciate it!

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2011, 08:55:30 AM »
Just curious, have you ever looked at his facebook page?

He's from Venezuela!

Offline weasel

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2011, 09:12:16 AM »
He's from Venezuela!



               He has a great body  :P

                Looks very healthy  .

                                                        Carl
" Live and let Live "

Offline Raf

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2011, 12:05:57 PM »
He's from Venezuela!


Hmmm, a fellow from my country, I have to look for his pics only  :P (I'm not interested in reading anything else, If he's a denialist I won't read anything by him. I hate them).
Dx: 05/14/2008
Latest HIV Meds combo I've been taking:

Kaletra + Combivir (since 05/16/2008 - today)

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2011, 12:14:07 PM »
He's from Venezuela!


errr... my point is more that when you look at his photo collection you can see his use of steroids has more to do with going on gay Atlantis cruises and hanging out with other circuit-lovin' roid queens than any "supposed" therapeutic health benefit.

With that said, there are always things with other subjects in Nelson's blog "Surviving HIV" that are interesting, and I'm not saying he's not knowledgable, but I think he misrepresents things with steroid use.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2011, 12:30:01 PM »
With that said, there are always things with other subjects in Nelson's blog "Surviving HIV" that are interesting, and I'm not saying he's not knowledgable, but I think he misrepresents things with steroid use.

Like this...

Dear PoWeR,
I have AIDS and had taken on the appearance of a holocaust victim. My lifetime normal weight of 145 lbs. had reached a low of 125 lbs. Six weeks later, following Nelson Vergel's recommended PoWeR program I weigh more now than I have ever weighed. At 150 lbs. plus, I look and feel great. One fantastic side effect has been the return of a more normal sex life.

C. Kirby


and a few other choice tidbits
don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2011, 12:37:53 PM »
Like this...

Dear PoWeR,
I have AIDS and had taken on the appearance of a holocaust victim. My lifetime normal weight of 145 lbs. had reached a low of 125 lbs. Six weeks later, following Nelson Vergel's recommended PoWeR program I weigh more now than I have ever weighed. At 150 lbs. plus, I look and feel great. One fantastic side effect has been the return of a more normal sex life.

C. Kirby


and a few other choice tidbits

Context sweetie, context -- I've never denied steroid use for clinically diagnosed people with physician monitoring.  Uh *hello* is this thing on?  I clearly stated earlier that I did this for four-fuckin' years.

But when you bulk up like the Venezuelan version of The Hulk to prance to house music (and at the age of what... 50?) you're not having wasting issues. And I'm rather sure he's been doing this for at least 15 years.  Wake up girl, you don't live in Nebraska. You know the tea.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2011, 12:53:55 PM »
Context sweetie, context -- I've never denied steroid use for clinically diagnosed people with physician monitoring.  Uh *hello* is this thing on?  I clearly stated earlier that I did this for four-fuckin' years.

But when you bulk up like the Venezuelan version of The Hulk to prance to house music (and at the age of what... 50?) you're not having wasting issues. And I'm rather sure he's been doing this for at least 15 years.  Wake up girl, you don't live in Nebraska. You know the tea.

I know, honey.  I agree with you totally. I was being facetious when I clipped that "testimonial" and posted it here.  Like you said on another thread, there are no magic potions, foods, or miracles to counteract the effects of hiv and teh aids on the body once acquired. 
 
::)

Please.  We both know that Body By Jake ain't natural.
don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2011, 04:52:43 PM »
I'm not an expert in this area but here are my thoughts on steroids:

- Messing with your endocrine system without supervision is just asking for trouble.

- If you legitimately think steroids will help your HIV symptoms why not talk to a doctor and have him or her prescribe them and monitor you?

- Do you really know what is in that syringe you got from that guy in the locker room?

- Unless you have muscle wasting (which is not the same as lipoatrophy) you don't need steroids.

- If you are taking steroids to look huge why is that important? Are you competing? Are you a trainer? Or are your just unhappy with who you are?

I know people who take steroids successfully. My trainer takes them and he is enormous. However I know that I have a ways to go before I reach my maximum physical potential and believe I, and almost everyone else, can do that without steroids.


LabRat

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2011, 06:31:05 PM »
However I know that I have a ways to go before I reach my maximum physical potential and believe I, and almost everyone else, can do that without steroids.

Huh? You look fantastic! ;)

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2011, 06:55:54 PM »
Thanks. What I was referring to is some people who say they started using steroids because they plateaued or took their body as far as it can go and needed steroids to progress. For 99.9% people out there that isn't true. If Virgil Nelson is saying that steroids make HIV+ people healthier (which I don't know he is saying because I have not read his book) I'm skeptical. I think a more honest answer for illicit steroid users is "I want to be as huge as possible and I will do anything to get there", or "I want a short cut" or, as Miss P. implies, "I'm going on a gay cruise and will be competing for ass with 2000 other ripped party boys. Shoot me UP!"

Offline Raf

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2011, 08:43:47 PM »
I don't know..my feelings about steroids are mixed. I trained in the gym during 8 years (since I was 15 until I was like 22 or 23. I'm 31 now) and I tried steroids twice, two different cycles (in different years). One with testosterone and another with HGH, both of them lasted one month, and after the HGH cycle I reached my max weight cap, 176 lbs (well, you cannot expect more for a guy 1.66 mts tall), and I was happy with my weight and physical form...even after quitting gym (I was finishing my career, looking for job, etc..so I didn't pay attention to my trainig so I decided to leave it). Over the years, my weight decreased to 165 lbs, but, I was ok with that.

Then in 2008 the aids symptoms striked hard, I had a terrible diarrhea during 3 months, my weight dropped to 136 lbs and I was in the bones (and add a molluscum contagious OI in my head and arms and you have a hideous being out there). It took me almost 6 months until I came to my final dx (I had a HIV test in Feb '08 , but it gave a false negative) If only I were diagnosed in feb and not in May...I could have stopped these symptoms earlier.

When I was finally Dx, in May, my doc told me that I suffered from wasting syndrome (First time I've ever heard of it) .... In that time, besides the shock of the diagnosis, I hardly look myself in the mirror, I only see a skull of someone who couldn't believe that it was me. Fortunately, in the next year, with my meds doing their job I recovered my weight (right now I'm back to 165 lbs) and the molluscum contagious OI cleared itself (or at least the outbreak, I know that it might come back someday) but I know I've lost most of my former muscular mass and my physical form is not what it used to be...so If the opportunity arises to do another cycle of 'roids sometime in the future I'll probably jump in... I don't want to become huge (In fact I couldn't be huge in my first and only HGH cycle), but I'd love to regain back some muscle and boost my weight to 176 lbs again. Maybe in that moment I'll begin to forget that monster I saw in the mirror when I was diagnosed in 2008 (and who knows? maybe start looking for a partner?).

BTW, second2none , are you started meds already, isn't it? believe me, wasting syndrome is not something you'd like to suffer (well, in reality, you don't want to suffer any aids OI). Focus yourself on keeping your weight, taking your meds and training before the steroids, you still have a nice bod there. (at least looking your avatar).
Dx: 05/14/2008
Latest HIV Meds combo I've been taking:

Kaletra + Combivir (since 05/16/2008 - today)

Offline brknimmortal

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2011, 12:03:56 AM »
Hey Eddie,

I use to be an avid body builder, reached 210 LBS (5'10)  at one point. One thing HIV has made me realize is that there is more to life than once physical appearance. After being hospitalized with a severe maculorpapular rash that covered my entire body, it made me realize that there is more to life than a nice esthetic body. I went from 210 LBS in Jan 2011, to 165LBS in March 2011 after being infected. It was hard at first seeing my body change so dramatically in such a short time, since it took me years and hard work to look the way I did. I can honestly say in the past few months, knowing I am HIV POZ has helped me overcome my muscle dysmorphia, and many other issues I once had. I no longer take life for granted, and live to the fullest. Start by working on your inner self first, then your outer self.... you will see things and life in a different perspective.

Prob not an answer you wanted, but I've been through "some" similar things as yourself.


Hang in there, things will get better.

By the way, I'm gaining my weight back. I'm at 183lbs, going all natural now, no more Anabolic Steroids.



Edwin   

Offline richie

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2011, 01:08:50 PM »
Miss Philicia:  I'm not espousing how Mr. Mooney might use steroids himself -- that's his own choice.  The question posed for this thread was regarding info on steroid use in HIVers, and Mr. Mooney's web page and book is chock full of such info -- with medical citations and all.  That's all.  Everyone needs to do their own research -- and this site is just a way to get a leap forward on that.  No need to attack the poster or the book author, but skepticism is always healthy.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2011, 01:13:27 PM »
Miss Philicia:  I'm not espousing how Mr. Mooney might use steroids himself -- that's his own choice.  The question posed for this thread was regarding info on steroid use in HIVers, and Mr. Mooney's web page and book is chock full of such info -- with medical citations and all.  That's all.  Everyone needs to do their own research -- and this site is just a way to get a leap forward on that.  No need to attack the poster or the book author, but skepticism is always healthy.

Vergel is a public figure -- he routinely tours and gives talks. When he presents things as one thing when the motivation is possibly something entirely different, I see nothing wrong in bringing this up. If you see it as a personal attack because I describe what I found in his un-privatized facebook photos then that's your problem, not mine.

But you're right, if a pozzie wants to go shoot up roids in his butt cheeks it's his body, not mine. This should be obvious for anyone but a 3-year old.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline northernguy

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #27 on: May 28, 2011, 01:52:10 PM »
I've never understood the disdain some have for cosmetic steroid use.  How is it any difference than liposuction or lap banding which have risks as well.  Well, I guess its different in that the political hysteria has scared many doctors from even discussing it. 

Do they have side effects, sure, but so do all the prescription meds we put into our bodies.
Apr 28/06 cd4 600 vl 10,600 cd% 25
Nov 8/09 cd4 510 vl 49,5000 cd% 16
Jan 16/10 cd4 660 vl 54,309 cd% 16
Feb 17/10 Started Atripla
Mar 7/10 cd4 710 vl 1,076 cd% 21
Apr 18/10 cd4 920 vl 268 cd% 28
Jun 19/10 cd4 450 vl 60 cd% 25
Aug 15/10 cd4 680 vl 205 cd% 27
Apr 3/11 cd4 780 vl <40 cd% 30
Jul 17/11 cd4 960 vl <40 cd%33
April 15/12 cd4 1,010 vl <40 cd% 39
April 20/12 Switched to Viramune + Truvada
Aug 2/12 cd4 1040, vl <40, cd% 38
Oct 19 cd4 1,110 vl <40 cd% 41

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2011, 02:01:16 PM »
I am on testosterone an got back my muscle, energy and sex drive and had no problems.  I take the shots and gel.  
« Last Edit: May 28, 2011, 02:07:21 PM by red_Dragon888 »
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Offline Jeff G

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Re: Steroid Use as a Poz man.
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2011, 02:02:01 PM »
I've never understood the disdain some have for cosmetic steroid use.  How is it any difference than liposuction or lap banding which have risks as well.  Well, I guess its different in that the political hysteria has scared many doctors from even discussing it. 

Do they have side effects, sure, but so do all the prescription meds we put into our bodies.

I have been on testosterone before and I know how it can be a benefit to those that need it but describing the one time risk of a surgical procedure as opposed to using steroids for long term cosmetic reasons is clearly not the same risk profile .

Steroid use for people with HIV is not a cosmetic option , its for a medical condition called low T .    

 


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