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Author Topic: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD  (Read 49858 times)

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Offline denb45

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #250 on: May 04, 2011, 10:43:26 AM »
Den, you come back and call Matty a "train-wreck" after Andy just warned him about attacks? I know you saw Andy's warning because you thanked him.

And don't even think about saying the remark was a joke. Even if it was, it surely was not appropriate after Andy's warning.

Consider yourself warned too.

Ann

And what remark was this Ann  ::)   and NO I didn't see Andy's remark until after I posted it, and Thanked Andy for this, after the fact, again your so late to this party as always.......
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #251 on: May 04, 2011, 10:49:45 AM »
Can we PLEASE get back to celebrating Bin Laden's death!

Caution: Canadians and some Americans may be offended by the celebration of death in the following Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5iseJJ5ogA&feature=related
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Offline denb45

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #252 on: May 04, 2011, 10:54:00 AM »
Can we PLEASE get back to celebrating Bin Laden's death!

Caution: Canadians and some Americans may be offended by the celebration of death in the following Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5iseJJ5ogA&feature=related

Oh WEEEEE I like this willy  :D :D :D Yes let's all get back on this wonderful topic  ;) but I think we need to change to working of this: ding dong Osama is DEAD  ;D
« Last Edit: May 04, 2011, 10:55:41 AM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Ann

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #253 on: May 04, 2011, 10:55:40 AM »
And what remark was this Ann  ::)   and NO I didn't see Andy's remark until after I posted it, and Thanked Andy for this, after the fact, again your so late to this party as always.......

Dennis, either you saw Andy's post when you hit reply and went back and amended it before posting to include the thanks, or you edited it quickly enough so it did not show a edit stamp.

Either way, you saw the warning and should have edited out your snarky comments - the remark I was referring to was obviously where you called Matty a train-wreck as I clearly said in my warning.

Keep posting in this thread about this matter - drop it - or your warning will turn into a seven day time out.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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Offline denb45

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #254 on: May 04, 2011, 10:56:53 AM »
Dennis, either you saw Andy's post when you hit reply and went back and amended it before posting to include the thanks, or you edited it quickly enough so it did not show a edit stamp.

Either way, you saw the warning and should have edited out your snarky comments - the remark I was referring was obviously where you called Matty a train-wreck as I clearly said in my warning.

Keep posting in this thread about this matter - drop it - or your warning will turn into a seven day time out.

Ann

I'm over it sweetheart  :-* it's all past-tense  :-*
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #255 on: May 04, 2011, 10:57:48 AM »
Ditto on Ann's remarks, Den.

Andy Velez

Offline denb45

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #256 on: May 04, 2011, 10:58:50 AM »
Can we PLEASE get back to celebrating Bin Laden's death!

Caution: Canadians and some Americans may be offended by the celebration of death in the following Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5iseJJ5ogA&feature=related

Willy i like this one better  :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McHyLKw5mHc&feature=related
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline denb45

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #257 on: May 04, 2011, 11:00:18 AM »
Ditto on Ann's remarks, Den.


  dully noted Andy  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline J.R.E.

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #258 on: May 04, 2011, 11:04:40 AM »

The coroner's report for Ms Bin laden :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OzSNFcwziY
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Offline OneTampa

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #259 on: May 04, 2011, 11:41:30 AM »
@JRE: That Coroner's report gets the "SEAL" of approval.

 ;)
"He is my oldest child. The shy and retiring one over there with the Haitian headdress serving pescaíto frito."

Offline denb45

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #260 on: May 04, 2011, 11:42:14 AM »
@JRE: That Coroner's report gets the "SEAL" of approval.

 ;)

 :D :D :D  good one Ray  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #261 on: May 04, 2011, 12:02:49 PM »


   Saudi police: al-Qaida member surrenders

   RIYADH, Saudi Arabia – Saudi Arabia says an al-Qaida member on the kingdom's most wanted list called from abroad and turned himself in.

Interior Ministry's spokesman Maj. Gen. Mansour Al-Turki said in a statement Wednesday that Khaled Hathal Abdullah al-Atifi al-Qahtani contacted the security authorities from an undisclosed country and expressed his wish to come home.

Al-Turki did not say when al-Qahtani was brought back to the kingdom, but many from the group fled to Yemen after a crackdown.

Al-Qahtani was reunited with his family and his surrender will be taken into consideration while looking into his case, Al-Turki said.

Al-Qahtani is apparently the first al-Qaida operative to surrender after its leader Osama bin Laden was killed on Monday.


Eh heh... the first patron to come forward declining the Blackhawk wake-up call, sweeeeet.......
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline lipoenvy

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #262 on: May 04, 2011, 01:32:18 PM »
I shall toss in my traditional wet blanket.

Let's imagine a hypothetical situation.  There is a very powerful foreign country.  We'll call it Hubria.  Officially it is an ally of the United States, but most people in the United States hate Hubria and most Hubrians.  Hubria is much more technologically advanced than the United States, with a far more powerful military.

For the past few years the Hubrians have been using their advanced weaponry on people whom they have identified as criminals inside the United States.  The United States government condemns the attacks, but everyone knows it is cooperating with the Hubrians.  For each criminal the Hubrians manage to kill, they kill about ten Americans who had nothing to do with the criminals the Hubrians are targeting.

Now the Hubrians send a small invasion force into the United States to extract a particularly notorious criminal.  They succeed.  The United States government finds itself in the difficult situation of either admitting that it has been cooperating with operations that killed innocent Americans, or making a transparently dishonest show of indignation over the violation of our sovereignty.  Also, the US government has to decide how to handle the clear message that we couldn't be trusted to extradite a criminal or handle the situation on our own.

How would you, as a US citizen, feel about the Hubrians' action?  How would you feel about them exulting in its success?

This is the situation in which Pakistan finds itself.  This is the situation in which the people of Pakistan find themselves.  It's humiliating to know that a powerful foreign country can swoop into your neighborhood any time they choose to do so.  Humiliation generates a response, maybe delayed, but certain.

I'm not saying that the action which resulted in bin Laden's death wasn't the best option under the circumstances.  But this action will have consequences none of us can foresee.  We tend to think of a single bogeyman as the enemy ("Everything will be OK once Saddam Hussein is dead") and are perplexed when the death of a single bad guy doesn't solve more of the problem.  Things could on balance be better as a result.  Or not.  And this could be al-Qaida's best recruiting tool in years.

It will probably take decades to know, if we ever do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #263 on: May 04, 2011, 01:39:15 PM »
I shall toss in my traditional wet blanket.

Let's imagine a hypothetical situation.  There is a very powerful foreign country.  We'll call it Hubria.  Officially it is an ally of the United States, but most people in the United States hate Hubria and most Hubrians.  Hubria is much more technologically advanced than the United States, with a far more powerful military.

For the past few years the Hubrians have been using their advanced weaponry on people whom they have identified as criminals inside the United States.  The United States government condemns the attacks, but everyone knows it is cooperating with the Hubrians.  For each criminal the Hubrians manage to kill, they kill about ten Americans who had nothing to do with the criminals the Hubrians are targeting.

Now the Hubrians send a small invasion force into the United States to extract a particularly notorious criminal.  They succeed.  The United States government finds itself in the difficult situation of either admitting that it has been cooperating with operations that killed innocent Americans, or making a transparently dishonest show of indignation over the violation of our sovereignty.  Also, the US government has to decide how to handle the clear message that we couldn't be trusted to extradite a criminal or handle the situation on our own.

How would you, as a US citizen, feel about the Hubrians' action?  How would you feel about them exulting in its success?

This is the situation in which Pakistan finds itself.  This is the situation in which the people of Pakistan find themselves.  It's humiliating to know that a powerful foreign country can swoop into your neighborhood any time they choose to do so.  Humiliation generates a response, maybe delayed, but certain.

I'm not saying that the action which resulted in bin Laden's death wasn't the best option under the circumstances.  But this action will have consequences none of us can foresee.  We tend to think of a single bogeyman as the enemy ("Everything will be OK once Saddam Hussein is dead") and are perplexed when the death of a single bad guy doesn't solve more of the problem.  Things could on balance be better as a result.  Or not.  And this could be al-Qaida's best recruiting tool in years.

It will probably take decades to know, if we ever do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan



Pakistan most certainly knew that Bin Laden was within a half mile of they're version of West Point . If they got some hurt feelings over the " incident " I suspect they will recover in time .   

Offline drewm

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #264 on: May 04, 2011, 02:03:25 PM »
Diagnosed in  May of 2010 with teh AIDS.

PCP Pneumonia . CD4 8 . VL 500,000

ATRIPLA - VALTREX -  FLUOXETINE - FENOFIBRATE


Numbers consistent since 12/2010 - VL has remained undetectable and CD4 is anywhere from 275-325

Offline denb45

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #265 on: May 04, 2011, 02:06:12 PM »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline drewm

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #266 on: May 04, 2011, 02:27:26 PM »
 ;D :-*
Diagnosed in  May of 2010 with teh AIDS.

PCP Pneumonia . CD4 8 . VL 500,000

ATRIPLA - VALTREX -  FLUOXETINE - FENOFIBRATE


Numbers consistent since 12/2010 - VL has remained undetectable and CD4 is anywhere from 275-325

Offline Joe K

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #267 on: May 04, 2011, 06:26:39 PM »
I think Americans have been celebrating because finally after almost 10 years he was found and eliminated.  It was a much needed “win” for us.  It took a hell of a long time, but we accomplished what we set out to do.  I don't wish death on most people.  Someone like OBL though?  A mastermind of an event that killed thousands of innocent people including children?  Sorry, I am glad he is gone.  He was the definition of evil.  Also I agree that any country that this had occurred in would feel the same.  It is very personal the United States just as it would have been to Canada if it had happened there.  I know slamming the US has been in vogue for a while, and while it is an imperfect place, I love it, I'm proud to call it home.  I can't imagine living anywhere else.   With the bad there is much good.  I am sure most people feel that way wherever they live though.  We will never be completely out of danger, but for now, I must join in the chorus…..USA!

Joe

P.S. Even though it is nice in theory, as Denb45 said, sometimes you have to say fuck the kumbaya shit. 


I flat out reject the idea that I was proposing any type of kumbaya moment, instead what I was saying is we need to find new ways to live in an ever connected world. I take offense that the suggestion that maybe there is something that America could do differently, because we make mistakes all the time. When I mention this trend toward violence, it is because I have been away from America for almost four years and I have become re-sensitized to violence. Our headline news rarely involves murders, drive-by shootings, rapes, etc. and when a murder does occur, it rarely involves handguns. I'm not slamming anybody here, because no country is perfect. However, what your culture exposes you to, can greatly influence your view of the world and for us to ignore that fact is pure folly.

So when I see the celebrating in America, over the death of another human being, I am seeing it through Canadian eyes if you will and what I see is terrifying. However, what troubles me most is the idea that there are no new ways to promote American interests, or worse, that suggesting a new approach may be in order, is met with disdain. Instead of celebrating the death of one man, why not celebrate the death of his hateful philosophies? Folks across the Middle East are doing just that, showing the world that citizen driven regime change, is possible, through non violence, because that is the true miracle here. I realize that many of these people are being brutalized, but they started the change they seek, through non-violent means, which is the exact opposite of what OBL believed.

Many of these revolts have sought and received the support of Washington and I hope that President Obama will continue to change the dialog we have with the Arab world. The only reason I speak up, is that it is hard to see the "whole" America while living within it. It will always be a great country and a world leader and this death represents an opportunity to change how we deal with cultures that are different from our own. If I was living in Iraq, I may not understand the need to remove Saddam, just because he was a tyrant. At least under a dictator, I had more services than I do now, under American occupation. To many the awful truth is that America came to their country, pursing solely American goals, of removing Saddam and in the process they destroyed my cities, my town and my home.

There are so many victims here, in far too many countries and at some point, countries will need to find better ways to promote their own interests, while respecting the culture of others. I so hope that discussions like this are happening world wide, because wars solve nothing. Whether they are waged by individuals or countries, the only way to win, is to not play the game.


Offline drewm

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #268 on: May 04, 2011, 06:39:11 PM »
I flat out reject the idea that I was proposing any type of kumbaya moment, instead what I was saying is we need to find new ways to live in an ever connected world. I take offense that the suggestion that maybe there is something that America could do differently, because we make mistakes all the time. When I mention this trend toward violence, it is because I have been away from America for almost four years and I have become re-sensitized to violence. Our headline news rarely involves murders, drive-by shootings, rapes, etc. and when a murder does occur, it rarely involves handguns. I'm not slamming anybody here, because no country is perfect. However, what your culture exposes you to, can greatly influence your view of the world and for us to ignore that fact is pure folly.

So when I see the celebrating in America, over the death of another human being, I am seeing it through Canadian eyes if you will and what I see is terrifying. However, what troubles me most is the idea that there are no new ways to promote American interests, or worse, that suggesting a new approach may be in order, is met with disdain. Instead of celebrating the death of one man, why not celebrate the death of his hateful philosophies? Folks across the Middle East are doing just that, showing the world that citizen driven regime change, is possible, through non violence, because that is the true miracle here. I realize that many of these people are being brutalized, but they started the change they seek, through non-violent means, which is the exact opposite of what OBL believed.

Many of these revolts have sought and received the support of Washington and I hope that President Obama will continue to change the dialog we have with the Arab world. The only reason I speak up, is that it is hard to see the "whole" America while living within it. It will always be a great country and a world leader and this death represents an opportunity to change how we deal with cultures that are different from our own. If I was living in Iraq, I may not understand the need to remove Saddam, just because he was a tyrant. At least under a dictator, I had more services than I do now, under American occupation. To many the awful truth is that America came to their country, pursing solely American goals, of removing Saddam and in the process they destroyed my cities, my town and my home.

There are so many victims here, in far too many countries and at some point, countries will need to find better ways to promote their own interests, while respecting the culture of others. I so hope that discussions like this are happening world wide, because wars solve nothing. Whether they are waged by individuals or countries, the only way to win, is to not play the game.


My Kumbaya video was not directed at anyone personally it was a reflection of the snarkyness (in general) of this thread.  :)
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Numbers consistent since 12/2010 - VL has remained undetectable and CD4 is anywhere from 275-325

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #269 on: May 04, 2011, 06:47:50 PM »



   
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #270 on: May 04, 2011, 07:06:25 PM »
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #271 on: May 04, 2011, 07:19:29 PM »

Whether they are waged by individuals or countries, the only way to win, is to not play the game.


100% agreement with you here Joe. But until Human beings can evolve to a point where there are no wars, no terrorism, and the like....I want my leader to be saying this:

"We will never tolerate our security being threatened, nor stand idly by when our people have been killed. We will be relentless in defense of our citizens and our friends and allies." - Obama

"We will kill bin Laden. We will crush al Qaeda. That has to be our biggest national security priority." - Barack Obama (2008 debate)

and I expect my leader to follow through...which he did.

POZ since '08

Last Labs-
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6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
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Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline bocker3

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #272 on: May 04, 2011, 10:18:23 PM »
I flat out reject the idea that I was proposing any type of kumbaya moment, instead what I was saying is we need to find new ways to live in an ever connected world. I take offense that the suggestion that maybe there is something that America could do differently, because we make mistakes all the time. When I mention this trend toward violence, it is because I have been away from America for almost four years and I have become re-sensitized to violence. Our headline news rarely involves murders, drive-by shootings, rapes, etc. and when a murder does occur, it rarely involves handguns. I'm not slamming anybody here, because no country is perfect. However, what your culture exposes you to, can greatly influence your view of the world and for us to ignore that fact is pure folly.

So when I see the celebrating in America, over the death of another human being, I am seeing it through Canadian eyes if you will and what I see is terrifying. However, what troubles me most is the idea that there are no new ways to promote American interests, or worse, that suggesting a new approach may be in order, is met with disdain. Instead of celebrating the death of one man, why not celebrate the death of his hateful philosophies? Folks across the Middle East are doing just that, showing the world that citizen driven regime change, is possible, through non violence, because that is the true miracle here. I realize that many of these people are being brutalized, but they started the change they seek, through non-violent means, which is the exact opposite of what OBL believed.

Many of these revolts have sought and received the support of Washington and I hope that President Obama will continue to change the dialog we have with the Arab world. The only reason I speak up, is that it is hard to see the "whole" America while living within it. It will always be a great country and a world leader and this death represents an opportunity to change how we deal with cultures that are different from our own. If I was living in Iraq, I may not understand the need to remove Saddam, just because he was a tyrant. At least under a dictator, I had more services than I do now, under American occupation. To many the awful truth is that America came to their country, pursing solely American goals, of removing Saddam and in the process they destroyed my cities, my town and my home.

There are so many victims here, in far too many countries and at some point, countries will need to find better ways to promote their own interests, while respecting the culture of others. I so hope that discussions like this are happening world wide, because wars solve nothing. Whether they are waged by individuals or countries, the only way to win, is to not play the game.



Joe,

I get what you are saying and don't disagree with the ideas behind it.  However, I think you are reading way too much iinto the spontaneous celebrations that happened after the announcement of Osama's death.  I am sure that those SAME celebrations would have happened if the announcement had been that Osama had been captured.
And for clarity -- celebrating the death of a human being may be wrong -- I don't see Osama as human.  I also, don't tie it in to Muslims.  I tie to fundamentalists who think they know what their god wants -- fundamentalism exists in many religions and millions have died over the centuries because of it.
Is American culture filled with violence -- yeah.  Is this what caused those celebrations -- I say, NO.  It was simply the joy for this small victory.  Will there be consequences because of his death?  Probably -- but here is the rest of the statement that others aren't saying -- there would have been consequences with his continued living.  Given the two options -- I'll take what we now have to face.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
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Offline poz1970

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #273 on: May 05, 2011, 12:40:03 AM »
Yay,

he's dead.

Move on.

Take how many trillion from the US budget and spend it on food/clothing? ya know, helping people instead of killing them!
"The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to  heterosexuals. That doesn`t mean that God doesn`t love heterosexuals. It`s just that they need more supervision." -- Lynn Lavne

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #274 on: May 05, 2011, 12:46:31 AM »
I find it interesting that Osama was buying AMERICAN Pepsi everyday and other American products such as medications and toothpaste.  I would have thought if you hated America that much, you would boycott all U.S. products.  

Another interesting fact I didn't know-----Pres. Bush closed the CIA taskforce that was searching for Osama in 2005.  That compound was built in 2005.  Strange.  Osama obviously believed he was now fairly safe.  I also love these polls coming out.  Most repubs give more credit to Bush for killing Osama.  Now, how does that work?  

MODIFIED:

I just saw Native American leaders are criticizing the use of the code word "Geronimo" to signal Osama was killed.  The Senate Indian Affairs Committee will hold hearings on this, Thursday.  I thought that would cause trouble.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 01:08:17 AM by tednlou2 »

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #275 on: May 05, 2011, 01:06:03 AM »
I find it interesting that Osama was buying AMERICAN Pepsi everyday and other American products such as medications and toothpaste.  

Take comfort in knowing he doesn't enjoy these products no more.  I'm sure he loved the American made M-16 round that parted his dome while wife number 67 tried to shot block.... 
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Offline WillyWump

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #276 on: May 05, 2011, 09:55:49 AM »
You know it's gonna be a bad day when you see a German Shepard with body armor and night vision goggles being lowered from a Stealth Black Hawk into your back yard.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/04/military-working-dog-used-bin-laden-compound-raid/

Among the commandos was a heroic canine – a bomb-sniffing dog who was attached to a team member as the SEALs were lowered from a Black Hawk.

The dogs are well-protected in these dangerous situations, armed with ballistic body armor, protective gear to shield against bullets and shrapnel, and infrared night-sight cameras that provide crucial feedback to troops and warn of potential ambushes

All this soldier wants is a doggie treat as his reward.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 09:58:45 AM by WillyWump »
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Offline Jeff G

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #277 on: May 05, 2011, 10:21:41 AM »
You know it's gonna be a bad day when you see a German Shepard with body armor and night vision goggles being lowered from a Stealth Black Hawk into your back yard.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/04/military-working-dog-used-bin-laden-compound-raid/

Among the commandos was a heroic canine – a bomb-sniffing dog who was attached to a team member as the SEALs were lowered from a Black Hawk.

The dogs are well-protected in these dangerous situations, armed with ballistic body armor, protective gear to shield against bullets and shrapnel, and infrared night-sight cameras that provide crucial feedback to troops and warn of potential ambushes

All this soldier wants is a doggie treat as his reward.


I would rather see them use the laser cats from snl but that's just my preference . When my bulldog farts she sometimes walks in circles to get a better whiff so I'm sure I could teach her to sniff bombs and like it . 

Offline denb45

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #278 on: May 05, 2011, 10:45:03 AM »
I would rather see them use the laser cats from snl but that's just my preference . When my bulldog farts she sometimes walks in circles to get a better whiff so I'm sure I could teach her to sniff bombs and like it . 

 :D
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Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #279 on: May 05, 2011, 01:04:34 PM »
Out of curiosity how many of the people who are happy that OBL is dead are also against the death penalty?  To me this is a very extreme case of the death penalty.  I would gladly be the man that shot dead many a murderous bastard throughout history, and feel no remorse about it whatsoever.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #280 on: May 05, 2011, 03:13:47 PM »
Out of curiosity how many of the people who are happy that OBL is dead are also against the death penalty?  To me this is a very extreme case of the death penalty.  I would gladly be the man that shot dead many a murderous bastard throughout history, and feel no remorse about it whatsoever.

He was leader of the Al-Qaeda with whom we are supposedly at war with.  There is no court on the battlefield.  See the problem is these radical fundamentalist groups don't fight your so-called traditional warfare.  So when we invade somebody's little gated casa located on a lush mountain side it just doesn't seem right.  But, make no mistake about it, it's still a war.   LOL I wonder if everyone thought the guy was going to make a valiant last stand like the Battle of the Bulge or something... 

This has been both humorous and disappointing at the same time.
 
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Offline thunter34

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #281 on: May 05, 2011, 05:10:13 PM »
Out of curiosity how many of the people who are happy that OBL is dead are also against the death penalty?  To me this is a very extreme case of the death penalty.  I would gladly be the man that shot dead many a murderous bastard throughout history, and feel no remorse about it whatsoever.

I think to say the comparison is a stretch is to put it mildly.
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Offline denb45

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #282 on: May 05, 2011, 05:14:57 PM »
He was leader of the Al-Qaeda with whom we are supposedly at war with.  There is no court on the battlefield.  See the problem is these radical fundamentalist groups don't fight your so-called traditional warfare.  So when we invade somebody's little gated casa located on a lush mountain side it just doesn't seem right.  But, make no mistake about it, it's still a war.   LOL I wonder if everyone thought the guy was going to make a valiant last stand like the Battle of the Bulge or something...  

This has been both humorous and disappointing at the same time.
  


Yeah .....I was aroused & disgusted all @ the same time, it felt kinda odd, and didn't wanna to come back to this thread, so I just keep on lurking for a while.....
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Offline Dachshund

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #283 on: May 05, 2011, 06:04:15 PM »
Out of curiosity how many of the people who are happy that OBL is dead are also against the death penalty?  To me this is a very extreme case of the death penalty.  I would gladly be the man that shot dead many a murderous bastard throughout history, and feel no remorse about it whatsoever.

Clear conscience or no conscience?

Offline denb45

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #284 on: May 05, 2011, 06:14:23 PM »
Why do they keep changing this story about what really happened? does anyone know or have any thought about this  ::)
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Offline Dachshund

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #285 on: May 05, 2011, 06:15:14 PM »
Watching the families of the victims of 9/11 being interviewed gives me the greatest sense of pride in Americans. Dignified is the word that comes to mind.

Offline denb45

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #286 on: May 05, 2011, 06:20:33 PM »
Watching the families of the victims of 9/11 being interviewed gives me the greatest sense of pride in Americans. Dignified is the word that comes to mind.

Yeah Dach, I mean at least they will get some kinda belated closure......but on the flip -side it kinda makes you wonder @ what cost, and what will come outta all of this further down the road in the middle east?
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 06:23:53 PM by denb45 »
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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #287 on: May 05, 2011, 06:21:11 PM »
Why do they keep changing this story about what really happened? does anyone know or have any thought about this  ::)

Debriefing of the SEAL unit compounded by distance (they're at a base in Afghanistan and the information is being released in real time of sorts in Washington).
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Offline Joe K

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #288 on: May 05, 2011, 06:22:31 PM »
Forgive the article, but the portion in blue, is what I was trying to say. They just say it in a much clearer way.

New York Times May 5, 2011
In Europe, Disquiet Over Bin Laden and U.S.
By STEVEN ERLANGER

PARIS — No European government has condemned or criticized the killing of Osama bin Laden by American commandos, but the questions raised about the changing details of his death sharpened considerably after the White House revealed that he did not fire a weapon, was not armed and did not use a woman as a protective shield.

Some are questioning whether “justice” in fact was done, as President Obama portrayed the killing, and whether the American troops made any effort to capture Bin Laden alive or whether they simply executed him. And some think that the scenes of celebrating Americans — whether at the White House or at ground zero — are inappropriate responses that are indecorous at the least and at worst could incite more terrorism.

The disquiet is mostly among those on the left and among the elite in the news media, but it is reminiscent of the atmosphere during the Bush administration and the war against Iraq, when the United States was criticized for unilateralism, arrogance, disrespect for international law, triumphalism and a resort to overwhelming military force.

“We’re back, not to square one, but perhaps square four in anti-Americanism,” said Nicole Bacharan, a scholar of the United States at the Institute of Political Studies, or Sciences Po, in Paris. “Whatever happens, we need to prove we are different or better, that we are so much more refined and delicate and have such a respect for the law,” she said, characterizing the European stance. “It’s very silly.”

The reaction is limited, Ms. Bacharan said, adding that she believed that most Europeans and French were “glad he’s gone.”

“I think it’s a small world of journalists and political elites who are not quite sure they should be happy,” she said.

But as a sign of the sensitivity — which also goes to the heart of European concerns about the war in Afghanistan and terrorism sponsored by Al Qaeda in Europe itself — the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, found herself on the defensive when she said on Monday that she was “glad that it was successful, the killing of Bin Laden.”

Her comments were heavily criticized. A member of her own conservative Christian Democratic Union, Siegfried Kauder, said: “I wouldn’t have used those words. That is a vengeful way of thinking that one shouldn’t have; that’s medieval.” And her foreign minister, Guido Westerwelle of the Free Democrats, called on Wednesday for the West to temper its responses, to avoid undue celebration “that could again lead to incitement or the heroization of Al Qaeda.”

At the same time, in comments to the newspaper Die Welt, he said that the death of Bin Laden was “good news for the entire world,” and that “it is understandable to have a feeling of relief that this terrorist who had thousands of victims on his conscience cannot continue to spread his terror.” So long, apparently, as the relief is kept under control.

Nicolas Demorand, editor of the left-leaning French daily Libération, on Tuesday bemoaned the “toxic rhetoric” of the campaign against terrorism. From that rhetoric, he wrote, stems “this base, uncomfortable joy, unprecedented in a democracy, that blew yesterday over the streets of New York.”

Even the editor of the centrist weekly L’Express, Christophe Barbier, cautioned, “To victory one must not add provocation.” He added: “To desecrate the cadaver or the memory of Bin Laden is to revive him. To cry one’s joy in the streets of our cities is to ape the turbaned barbarians who danced the night of Sept. 11. It is to tell them the ghastly competition continues between them and us.”

But Le Monde praised Mr. Obama for his sober speech Sunday night, contrasting it with that of President George W. Bush in 2003, who dressed as a fighter pilot to land on an aircraft carrier and declare the end of combat operations in Iraq, with a banner carrying his “ridiculous ‘Mission Accomplished.’ ”


The Dutch foreign minister, Uri Rosenthal, said in a statement: “It would have been better if Bin Laden had been captured alive and forced to answer for his deeds in a court of law. Nevertheless, this is a historic event.”

For Justin Vaïsse, a French political scientist who is director of research for the Center on the United States and Europe at the Brookings Institution, the different reactions to the rejoicing “simply reflects the difference in experiences, which you could also see in 2001 and 2002.”

“Nine-eleven happened there, not here. Europeans don’t understand why people would rejoice at ground zero, while it seems relatively easy to understand that in the United States.”

Leah Pisar, who worked at the White House during the Clinton years and wrote a book in French about French-American relations during the Iraq war, “Orage sur l’Atlantique,” or “Storm Over the Atlantic,” said that underlying the disquiet was Europe’s concern about Qaeda retaliation.

“It’s partly the fear of upsetting the Muslim community at home,” she said, adding, “there is an angst everyone is sharing over where Al Qaeda will hit back.”

Many European nations remain on a high state of alert after warnings last year that groups of European Muslims, especially Germans, had received training in Qaeda camps in Pakistan and had been sent back to Europe to commit “Mumbai-style” attacks on civilians. Some were killed and captured, but government officials say that the threat continues.

Ms. Pisar said that France was also worried about French hostages being held by Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, the network’s North African branch, “and how this plays into the Arab Spring.”

She also noted that the tone of French foreign policy, under the Gaullist foreign minister, Alain Juppé, who opposed France’s full integration into NATO, has shifted away from the pro-Americanism of his predecessor, Bernard Kouchner.

Ms. Bacharan, who is working on a book on 9/11, agreed, saying that Mr. Kouchner “had a very hard time imposing that view on the Quai d’Orsay, and people were waiting for him to be gone.” Mr. Juppé, she said, spent his career in the Gaullist line of Jacques Chirac and Dominique de Villepin, who made opposition to United States positions a kind of cornerstone of French policy.

Mr. Vaïsse, however, noted that the criticism might have been slightly muted by the Libyan operation. “There, our planes are bombing Libya and tried to kill Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi and missed,” he said.

Mr. Obama has also brought about a tonal shift, he said, noting, “A couple of years ago, under the Bush administration, the reactions would have been ballistic, and far more pointed.”

There are also questions in Europe over whether the killing of Bin Laden was legal.

A columnist at the German newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung, Heribert Prantl, asked, “Which law governs the execution of Bin Laden?” He said that American law required trials before the death penalty and concluded, “The decision to kill the godfather of terror was political.”

Geoffrey Robertson, a prominent human rights lawyer in Britain who is currently defending the WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, was scathing in an interview on the BBC. Mr. Obama’s assertion that justice was done was “a total misuse of language,” Mr. Robertson said. “This is the justice of the Red Queen: sentence first, trial later.”

If it were clear that Bin Laden was “threatening to use a weapon to kill,” then his shooting is justifiable as self-defense, Mr. Robertson conceded. But if the order was to kill Bin Laden, he said, that would be illegal. And depriving Bin Laden of a trial leaves him “now as a martyr,” he said. “By killing him, you have ironically given him the death he most desired, a fast track to paradise. I think he died with a smile on his lips.”

Ms. Pisar said there was a double standard at work. “What was the legal basis for decapitating Daniel Pearl?” she asked, referring to the Wall Street Journal reporter kidnapped and killed by Al Qaeda in Pakistan in 2002.

European skepticism stems from the history of Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo Bay, she noted. “But that’s what makes the democracy so strong,” she said. “It’s good that we can ask these questions, and the president has to go out there and be accountable.”

Mr. Vaïsse, like many Europeans, believes that the commandos had orders to kill Bin Laden. “That’s my one real doubt,” he said. “I think they had orders to shoot, quite frankly. It’s so complicated to deal with a living Osama bin Laden. I guess that’s my own conspiracy theory.”
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 06:24:45 PM by killfoile »

Offline denb45

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #289 on: May 05, 2011, 06:34:57 PM »
Thanks for the artical Joe, but let me say this, you all know that the pictures & live-feed video of Osama demise will never see the light of day, that will be Classified for EVER....
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Offline pozniceguy

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #290 on: May 05, 2011, 06:53:16 PM »
there are  always  the  Wikileaks  folks  out there that will try to get this  stuff on the air........just let it  go  ..it is  over....move on...
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Offline denb45

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #291 on: May 05, 2011, 06:58:07 PM »
there are  always  the  Wikileaks  folks  out there that will try to get this  stuff on the air........just let it  go  ..it is  over....move on...

They can try, but the FEDS will just shut-it-down.....
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Offline NycJoe

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #292 on: May 05, 2011, 07:02:49 PM »
I am glad he is gone.  He was a war criminal that killed THOUSANDS of people.   This was a proven fact.  He did not deserve the attention a trial would have given him.  That would have done even more harm.  I think people celebrated that that specific chapter is over.  Just a chapter but a big one.  Also the above article where someone compares Daniel Pearls murder to OBL in regards to legality.  REALLY?  Wow.. Just wow.  I worry sometimes about people. 

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #293 on: May 05, 2011, 09:11:00 PM »
Out of curiosity how many of the people who are happy that OBL is dead are also against the death penalty?  To me this is a very extreme case of the death penalty.  I would gladly be the man that shot dead many a murderous bastard throughout history, and feel no remorse about it whatsoever.

I am against the death penalty.  I did feel a lot of satisfaction at first, but then began wondering whether it is right to be judge, jury, and executioner even in war?  And, many dems have always said terrorism is more of a law enforcement issue than a military one, which would seem to mean even Osama should have his day in court.  Learning Osama was not armed and hearing his 13 year-old daughter claim he had surrendered for some time and then they killed him, made it obvious this was a kill mission only.  The Seals rushed in and killed his son and others who were holding their hands up to surrender.  Having said that, I understand they were under a lot of pressure and having to make split-second decisions-- knowing who they were dealing with.  And, seeing the video of Osama saying he thought the planes and fuel would only collapse the floors above and not the whole building made me think he deserved what he got.

Oh, how bought that secret chopper that has a skin that makes it quieter than most and makes it sound like it is flying away from you than toward you?  I guess that is why they blew it up.  However, they are concerned China will get their hands on this technology. 

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #294 on: May 06, 2011, 08:34:34 AM »
I'm glad he's dead and I'm also glad in the way they did it.

Offline carousel

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #295 on: May 06, 2011, 09:48:15 AM »
I am glad he is gone.  He was a war criminal that killed THOUSANDS of people.   This was a proven fact. 

That's fine.  But we have courts to prosecute people, no matter how glaringly obvious the guilty verdict may be in your eyes.

If the intention was to assassinate him, then they should say that's what the plan was.  Or just do it, walk away and pretend you weren't involved, knowing you got your man.  Job done.

This playing around with facts, stumbling over their story and misinformation is making them look like fools.  It's like a bad episode of Judge Judy.

The growing disquiet is as always about the rule of law, the values that we should hold dear and sadly seem to being eroded.  The fact that it was possibly the easier and most expedient action to take him out, should not change the idea that if possible he should have been brought to justice. 

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #296 on: May 06, 2011, 10:03:05 AM »
Osama was expecting his 72 virgins, instead he got 24 Virginians :)
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Offline denb45

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #297 on: May 06, 2011, 10:25:43 AM »
That's fine.  But we have courts to prosecute people, no matter how glaringly obvious the guilty verdict may be in your eyes.

If the intention was to assassinate him, then they should say that's what the plan was.  Or just do it, walk away and pretend you weren't involved, knowing you got your man.  Job done.

This playing around with facts, stumbling over their story and misinformation is making them look like fools.  It's like a bad episode of Judge Judy.

The growing disquiet is as always about the rule of law, the values that we should hold dear and sadly seem to being eroded.  The fact that it was possibly the easier and most expedient action to take him out, should not change the idea that if possible he should have been brought to justice.  

You bring up a very interesting point here, this happens a lot in law enforcement, when facts of a criminal investigation get all messed-up, the wrong person get's shoot, get's arrested, or they went to the wrong place for a raid, yes misinformation can make things confusing, and a lot of law enforcement agencies sometimes get SUED

for Bad Acts, mistakes, and YES they do end looking like a bunch fools, also keep in mind, that it's a very political position to uphold, with that being said our Govt. isn't anywhere near as perfect as they would have us all believe they are......
« Last Edit: May 06, 2011, 10:27:59 AM by denb45 »
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Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #298 on: May 06, 2011, 01:09:34 PM »
He was leader of the Al-Qaeda with whom we are supposedly at war with.  There is no court on the battlefield.  See the problem is these radical fundamentalist groups don't fight your so-called traditional warfare.  So when we invade somebody's little gated casa located on a lush mountain side it just doesn't seem right.  But, make no mistake about it, it's still a war.   LOL I wonder if everyone thought the guy was going to make a valiant last stand like the Battle of the Bulge or something... 

This has been both humorous and disappointing at the same time.
 


Being at war with an organization is a bit of a stretch, there are no clearly defined boundaries, and no civilians.  He committed an act of terror and we decided unilaterally to kill him for it.  I don't think that decision was wrong at all.  I was just curious how others felt about it.  I say this because generally the more liberal a person is the more they are against the death penalty (clouded issue to say the least).

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Osama Bin Laden is DEAD
« Reply #299 on: May 06, 2011, 01:12:29 PM »
I am against the death penalty.  I did feel a lot of satisfaction at first, but then began wondering whether it is right to be judge, jury, and executioner even in war?  And, many dems have always said terrorism is more of a law enforcement issue than a military one, which would seem to mean even Osama should have his day in court.  Learning Osama was not armed and hearing his 13 year-old daughter claim he had surrendered for some time and then they killed him, made it obvious this was a kill mission only.  The Seals rushed in and killed his son and others who were holding their hands up to surrender.  Having said that, I understand they were under a lot of pressure and having to make split-second decisions-- knowing who they were dealing with.  And, seeing the video of Osama saying he thought the planes and fuel would only collapse the floors above and not the whole building made me think he deserved what he got.

Oh, how bought that secret chopper that has a skin that makes it quieter than most and makes it sound like it is flying away from you than toward you?  I guess that is why they blew it up.  However, they are concerned China will get their hands on this technology. 

You don't get to kill 3000 people unantagonized even "accidentally" and then surrender peacefully.  That's just not going to fly with anyone.

 


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