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Author Topic: In a semi-perfect world, we could fight casual prejudice  (Read 8688 times)

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Online leatherman

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Re: In a semi-perfect world, we could fight casual prejudice
« Reply #50 on: May 01, 2011, 06:17:31 PM »
what makes anyone think that yet another campaign about something not nearly as important is going to work? We smoke, drink, bareback, drive fast, and eat tons of red meat with merry abandon, despite all the warnings we have read/heard throughout our lives. Why would people suddenly sit up and take heed of a campaign about something that, in the context of the larger world, is basically trivial and meaningless? Wouldn't the energy and resources funneled into such a project be better utilized by directing them into something more useful to more people.
it would seem that another campaign (or 2 or 3 or 4) is exactly what's needed since there are still HIV infections happening. That other thread simply proves that what has been used hasn't worked 100% yet, so maybe this would be the project to reach another group of people and get some more results.

As often as the word "clean" is used in the AII? forum regarding HIV infection, that clearly shows that line of thought is not trivial or meaningless. Actually, just off the top of my head without any hard numbers, it seems the "clean" meme is often used by straight people also, whom I would suggest are already less targeted with a safe sex message (as we can tell simply by pregnancy rates), compared to a high risk group; unlike gay men who have been targeted every which way and still keep coming up infected. We can't just limit safe sex campaigns to reach to only gay men. In my state, 73% of all new infections are straight (not on the "down low") African-Americans. A campaign promoting the senselessness of asking about "cleanliness" might be very influential.

Just like in previous discussions about that in-your-face NY campaign (bones breaking, anal cancer pix, etc), rather than rule out any avenue or any campaign, we need to open our horizons and try all avenues to reach the public. The "clean" meme is used enough, by straights and gays, that such a campaign would touch on something that people do actually think/say wrongly about HIV infection and the spread of HIV.

Quote
We smoke, drink, bareback, drive fast, and eat tons of red meat with merry abandon, despite all the warnings we have read/heard throughout our lives.
yikes! that sort of defeatist-sounding pronouncement would then lead us to ask why attempt any safe-sex message at all if they are just guaranteed to fail because humans don't listen to warnings.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: In a semi-perfect world, we could fight casual prejudice
« Reply #51 on: May 01, 2011, 06:34:40 PM »
No prevention campaign will ever work 100% and it's moronic to think that any would.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline denb45

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Re: In a semi-perfect world, we could fight casual prejudice
« Reply #52 on: May 01, 2011, 06:43:13 PM »
No prevention campaign will ever work 100% and it's moronic to think that any would.

Most everyone, will always do what they want anyway, we tried this w/ drug prevention in the City I lived in @ the Sheriff's Dept. guess what, it didn't work.....
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline CaptCarl

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Re: In a semi-perfect world, we could fight casual prejudice
« Reply #53 on: May 01, 2011, 06:52:48 PM »
   Unfortunately, due to the human race being made up of dolts, it seems that our efforts to prevent various Bad Things from happening, frequently coming to naught, are the result of our almost pathalogical ability to do the wong thing most of the time.

    We're smart enough to know what's the best thing for us, however we don't actually do what's best for us. We ignore warnings from everything to smoking, drinking alcohol, unprotected sex, ad infinitum. Yet when things go wrong, we sit there and look to find someone to blame. Whether it's a multi-pack a day smoker who develops lung cancer, or the guy who barebacks and winds up in our shoes. We will ignore all advice contrary to what we want, even if it kills us, which it sometimes does.

   So with that in mind, I cannot help but to find the idea of an anti-stigma campaign to be rather dubious.

   Instead of trying to change society to come around to our way of thinking, perhaps the effort would be better spent in trying to bolster ones defenses against the inevitable bit of hurtfulness that life will eventually hand you. Repeatedly. It would seem to me that learning to cope with such things is the proper response, the whole self-preservation thing, y'know? Learn how to cope and brush it off for what it is: a trivial irritant. Face it, having HIV is hard enough, and in the face of all the truly awful things that it can represent, using a word like clean is pretty low on CaptCarl's Patented Scale of Offensenitivity. Allowing oneself to be "stigmatized" by such an unimportant word is baffling to me.

   Maybe there is a partial solution, though. Instead of expecting things to change through some social campaign, instead endeavor to educate one at a time, in a civilised manner so that people will actually listen. People are easier to educate one-on-one. I look at what Ann does on a daily basis over on the AII? Forum. She politley, but firmly lets people know that the word clean is considered offensive by some, and that it will not be tolerated. I suspect that between she and the other moderators here as well as a few others, they bring the issue of "clean" to peoples attention and with the desired effect more efficiently than any public campaign likely would.

   Life is offensive. That will never change. The world is a dangerous place, and will kill you if you don't learn a few basics about survival. The best thing one can do is to learn to cope with it, and to move on when it's over. Wanting someone else to do it for you won't do you any favors.


CaptCarl
The only thing I can do straight is shoot..

Online leatherman

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Re: In a semi-perfect world, we could fight casual prejudice
« Reply #54 on: May 01, 2011, 07:21:49 PM »
No prevention campaign will ever work 100% and it's moronic to think that any would.
of course, rarely does any campaign work 100% But shouldn't the goal be to stop the spread of HIV 100%? I would hate to think that they're designing safe sex campaigns to only be 70-80% effective. But since realistically no campagin will ever be 100% effective, that's why it makes sense to consider other possible campaigns to reach some of the people that haven't been reached.

in a perfect world, it would be great it all the safe sex campaigns together would add up to stopping 100% of the spread of HIV

I cannot help but to find the idea of an anti-stigma campaign to be rather dubious.
Ah! I was not talking about this as an anti-stigma campaign; but as a safe-sex campaign. I know mecch brought this topic up as being offended but I pointed out that the question itself, regardless of it's offensiveness, is just stupid and doesn't get to the heart of the matter. Asking about someone's status (ie are you clean?) is no way to have safe sex - because people lie and people don't know their own status. And that would be the reason to use the clean meme in a safe sex campaign. Not to try to keep people from offending HIV+ people's sensibilites.

I suspect that between she and the other moderators here as well as a few others, they bring the issue of "clean" to peoples attention and with the desired effect more efficiently than any public campaign likely would.
Not diminishing what the mods do, but they only bring this issue to people who have already come to this site. An actual public campaign would reach many more people than ever visit this site.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline denb45

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Re: In a semi-perfect world, we could fight casual prejudice
« Reply #55 on: May 01, 2011, 07:32:08 PM »
Well, I treat everyone like they have AIDS or and STD, you simply have to, been that way for many yrs. now  ;) but sometimes I digress, during times of Lent  ;D too clarify this, most people give up something during lent
I give up being a prude  ;D
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 07:38:44 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline CaptCarl

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Re: In a semi-perfect world, we could fight casual prejudice
« Reply #56 on: May 01, 2011, 07:35:27 PM »
Well, I treat everyone like they have AIDS or and STD, you simply have to, been that way for many yrs. now  ;)

Someone's got the Right Idea.....
The only thing I can do straight is shoot..

Offline denb45

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Re: In a semi-perfect world, we could fight casual prejudice
« Reply #57 on: May 01, 2011, 07:39:26 PM »
Someone's got the Right Idea.....

 :-*
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline klouny

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Re: In a semi-perfect world, we could fight casual prejudice
« Reply #58 on: May 01, 2011, 07:52:10 PM »
I give up being a prude  ;D

It's hard being a prude. I've tried it . . . it didn't work  :P
I love the nookie too much  :-*
~Strange ideas are Superfluous and unoriginal~

Offline denb45

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Re: In a semi-perfect world, we could fight casual prejudice
« Reply #59 on: May 01, 2011, 07:54:55 PM »
It's hard being a prude. I've tried it . . . it didn't work  :P
I love the nookie too much  :-*

Only during times of Lent for me , that's when I give up the goods ;D
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline klouny

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Re: In a semi-perfect world, we could fight casual prejudice
« Reply #60 on: May 01, 2011, 07:57:15 PM »
I don't think I have times of lent. . .    :-\
I blame the last remnant of my teenage hormones  :P
~Strange ideas are Superfluous and unoriginal~

Offline denb45

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Re: In a semi-perfect world, we could fight casual prejudice
« Reply #61 on: May 01, 2011, 07:59:31 PM »
I don't think I have times of lent. . .    :-\
I blame the last remnant of my teenage hormones  :P

Teenage hormones, please your only a very RIPE 20 yrs old   :-*
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline klouny

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Re: In a semi-perfect world, we could fight casual prejudice
« Reply #62 on: May 01, 2011, 08:00:49 PM »
"RIPE" lol
I turn 21 this year, I can't use the teenage hormones thing after that :P
so milking it for all it's worth
~Strange ideas are Superfluous and unoriginal~

Offline denb45

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Re: In a semi-perfect world, we could fight casual prejudice
« Reply #63 on: May 01, 2011, 08:03:22 PM »
"RIPE" lol
I turn 21 this year, I can't use the teenage hormones thing after that :P
so milking it for all it's worth

 I can't even recall when I was 21 , enjoy it while it last, your old enough to know better, ok , I'll go with Dat   ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline klouny

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Re: In a semi-perfect world, we could fight casual prejudice
« Reply #64 on: May 01, 2011, 08:05:36 PM »
I know better  ;)
plus I'm a good boy; I'm just getting my halo polished and my wings are naturally black   :)
~Strange ideas are Superfluous and unoriginal~

Offline CaptCarl

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Re: In a semi-perfect world, we could fight casual prejudice
« Reply #65 on: May 01, 2011, 08:09:12 PM »
of course, rarely does any campaign work 100% But shouldn't the goal be to stop the spread of HIV 100%? I would hate to think that they're designing safe sex campaigns to only be 70-80% effective. But since realistically no campagin will ever be 100% effective, that's why it makes sense to consider other possible campaigns to reach some of the people that haven't been reached.

   But I have to wonder that if the intiial campaign gets the message across to say, 75% of the people, how will you try to reach the other 25% with the likelihood that you will in turn reach only 75% of that group. Then repeat it all over again. And again. At what point do you stop splitting the hairs? After all, the basic message of safe sex is very simple, "If you fuck the wrong person without a condom you will die. And it won't be quick or pretty."

   As I said in my earlier post, yes campaigns can be effective, but frequently enough they're not due to the basic stubborness and stupidity of people in general. At some point the point of diminshing returns comes into play. You know the saying...."You can lead a whore to Culture, but you can't make her Think."

   I also didn't say that you were talking about an anti-stigma campaign. But others here were, and it was to them that my points were directed. You're right about the qestion being stupid. As is getting worked up about a silly little word to the point that they seriously consider mounting a PR campaign to try to stop it's use.

   I think you kind of missed the point I was making about the moderators. It was that they are more effective in informing  people about the issue of using the word clean, as well as other issues. There is also the ripple effect to think about, each person telling others, who maybe pass it on. It is likely that the influence of the Mods reaches far beyond the limits of the Forums. It is true that a PSA billboard campaign would reach more people, I'd wager that the percentage of people who actually get the message is far lower. The same reason that sometimes a grass-roots effort is more effective than a large organized campaign.

CaptCarl
The only thing I can do straight is shoot..

Offline mecch

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Re: In a semi-perfect world, we could fight casual prejudice
« Reply #66 on: May 02, 2011, 04:39:04 AM »
http://www.20min.ch/ro/news/suisse/story/28243855

So the stigma campaign was this:
Posters of famous swiss people with the words
"Would you blah blah blah if I were seropositive?"

example:  "Would you still come to my concerts if I were seropositif?"

I thought it was OK, better than nothing.  But it was hiv- people (we can assume) and the question was open - no suggested response.  That's very adult but we are kinda of saying here we are dealing with idiots and basic human nature that wants to refuse the message.

There are plenty of free little brochures in the gay bars and centers, however, that do clearly explain that "asking about HIV" doesn't give reliable information.

Its seems to be more of a general public ignorance.  The hispanic poster in the other thread clearly explained how everyone makes assumptions about "He/She must be clean because blah blah blah reason".
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline elf

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Re: In a semi-perfect world, we could fight casual prejudice
« Reply #67 on: May 02, 2011, 09:30:38 AM »
Even stranger are phrases like ''discretion and hygiene are essential'' (where ''hygiene'' stands for being HIV-)   :o

In my Manhunt profile I have: HIV: ask me,
but no one has ever asked.  ???

When I was HIV-, I always found it rude to ask about someone's status.
You presumed everyone was potentially HIV+, and condom usage was expected (and not negotiated).
« Last Edit: May 02, 2011, 09:33:54 AM by elf »
Let's have a Kiki!

Offline denb45

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Re: In a semi-perfect world, we could fight casual prejudice
« Reply #68 on: May 02, 2011, 10:49:50 AM »
Even stranger are phrases like ''discretion and hygiene are essential'' (where ''hygiene'' stands for being HIV-)   :o

In my Manhunt profile I have: HIV: ask me,
but no one has ever asked.  ???


What is all this manhunt crap? just cause you use that doesn't mean that everyone does  ::) AGAIN speak for yourself  ::)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: In a semi-perfect world, we could fight casual prejudice
« Reply #69 on: May 02, 2011, 11:05:59 AM »
What is all this manhunt crap? just cause you use that doesn't mean that everyone does  ::) AGAIN speak for yourself  ::)

How did anyone survive HIV-dating before the Manhunt era... ::rolls eyes::
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline denb45

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Re: In a semi-perfect world, we could fight casual prejudice
« Reply #70 on: May 02, 2011, 11:07:54 AM »
How did anyone survive HIV-dating before the Manhunt era... ::rolls eyes::

We did just fine miss P  :-*
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: In a semi-perfect world, we could fight casual prejudice
« Reply #71 on: May 02, 2011, 11:17:48 AM »
We did just fine miss P  :-*

Well hey, one of my old nicknames from my ex-leather tricks was "Bar Slut"
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: In a semi-perfect world, we could fight casual prejudice
« Reply #72 on: May 02, 2011, 11:27:14 AM »
We did just fine miss P  :-*


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