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Author Topic: Pursuing Justice... possible?  (Read 4772 times)

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Offline IgotTigerBlood

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Pursuing Justice... possible?
« on: April 24, 2011, 03:37:09 PM »
I believe my ex-boyfriend gave me HIV (when we were dating), while he knew he had it. I had a nervous breakdown the other day which included impulsive homicidal thoughts about killing him.... but as my nervous system finally relaxed, and my mood stabilized, and my normal frame of mind took over, I figured, a lawful jurisdiction approach would probably benefit me more.

So I've been thinking about it, recently, and wondered what my chances were of successfully getting the justice I deserve. I live in Florida, and I don't know how the laws about this sort of thing is upheld. I hope it would be in my favor.. I hope there's not a statute of limitations.

It's just 2 years ago today that he was severely ill, in and out of the hospital (which I now believe is when he was subconverting). He denied anything was wrong with him, and that the doctors(according to him) had found nothing wrong with him.

There was an instance, where his nurse came in and he wanted me out of the room, at the time, I didn't think anything of it. When I asked him what he told the nurse that he couldn't tell me, he made up this bogus story (mind you, not saying big guys can't get raped, but he's 6'4 and intimidating) that he was raped (aka he cheated on me). After his release, sometime after that, we made love....then, oddly enough, he disappeared for two weeks, and suddenly called out of the blue at two in the morning saying he thinks he HIV+...

Literally, that morning, as I woke up for work, I began to experience the beginning of my subconvertion. Overall, I was in the hospital for a month. He didn't visit me once.. During my stay, he denied that he was HIV positive, and that he confused the two, and meant to say gonorrhea, which was weird because I didn't have gonorrhea, and I don't believe anyone would confuse the two. Shortly after, I was diagnosed with HIV. Eventually, I found out he DID cheat on me, and had HIV.

Anyways, I have many more points as why I believe he knew he was HIV positive, yet gave it to me knowingly, without informing me that he had it.

Off topic, my life is contaminated by constant flash backs... it's unbearable...

That was my first ever real relationship with anyone... we started dating when I was 17, he was about 4 years older than me (My mom was not happy about that!)

I was diagnosed when I was 19, and I'm still haunted by those events, everyday. Therapy didn't work, and I figured justice would help alleviate my pain.



« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 03:40:52 PM by IgotTigerBlood »
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Offline newt

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2011, 04:33:09 PM »
It's nice to trust, but why did you have sex without a condom with him if you both hadn't tested together?

- matt


edited for spelling
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 05:58:00 PM by newt »
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Online mecch

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2011, 04:41:34 PM »
It is a totally rotten despicable behaviour by your ex.

Reading your story, I was thinking you need several events to heal the damage to your psyche.  I wouldn't rely only on legal justice as the fix you need.  You said therapy didn't work?

About the legal issue, it seems to me you should ask yourself why you had unprotected sex with him, considering he had been "raped", had the clap, or the real story you had in the back of your mind already, I suppose.  If you feel morally that he is responsible for the infection, for lying, then I guess you can go ahead with the legal pursuit if its possible in your state.

But will it help you heal?

Seems you need 1) justice about his wrong, and barring that, at least you need closure about it. Its possible to never forgive someone's behavior, while still putting it out of your mind.  

But you also need some therapy and maybe a successful new love story.  

You got messed up with a bad type, but there's no reason you need to continue to suffer now, rather than building something good with another, better guy.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Buckmark

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2011, 04:57:45 PM »
...

I was diagnosed when I was 19, and I'm still haunted by those events, everyday. Therapy didn't work, and I figured justice would help alleviate my pain.

...


Assuming you were able to make a case against your former boyfriend, and get him charged, tried and convicted, then what?  You're still going to have to deal with being HIV+, and how that came to be.  It takes two to tango.  He played a part in your infection, but you did too:  you made a choice to have sex without a condom, so you have to live with the consequences of that choice. 

Granted, if this guy did what you said he did, then he is scum.  It likely stings even more because it was your first relationship.  But I don't see how pursuing this as a legal matter is going to help you heal, and help you deal with being HIV+. 

Either way you decide, I strongly strongly suggest you return to therapy and seek our support groups.

Regards,

Henry
"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
     One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
     The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love."
- Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

Offline bocker3

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2011, 05:49:49 PM »
You're angry.  If your ex ends up in jail, you will still be angry and you will still be HIV+.  No matter what you decide, you need to work on adjusting to your new reality.  You also need to accept YOUR PART in your infection.  Whether he deceived you or not, you seem to have willingly engaged in unprotected sex with him.  By having unprotected sex, you opened the door to getting infected.

Honestly, I think your first order of business is to take care of you -- and by that, I mean getting back into therapy and learning to accept where you are now.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Mike
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Offline CaptCarl

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2011, 09:24:09 PM »
Tiger-

   Gotta echo the others here. You also had a responsibility to make sure that things were safe between you. A responsibility that you didn't uphold. Yes, your boyfriends behavior was inexcusable, however the only way he could have infected you is by your willingness to have unprotected sex.

   I truly feel that your energy would be better spent on yourself, and learning to adapt to the new reality of your life. You might be able to get your ex thrown in jail, but what exactly would that accomplish? By spending the effort on yourself, you'll be in a better place mentally, as well as physically, when all the anger subsides. And keeping healthy mentally is one of the things that you will need to sustain you for the long haul of HIV infection.

CaptCarl
The only thing I can do straight is shoot..

Offline PozJeepGuy

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2011, 10:13:54 PM »
But no one ever answers this question.  Yea we all know it doesn't change the fact where still positive but I believe if he knew he should be held somewhat accountable.  I too want to know what one does to check into this.  To know we have had some knowingly infect us.  Its one thing not knowing and passing it on its another to purposely know.  I see it as taking action and not feeling like a victim.  Is that so wrong??
Jacob Perry

I refuse to wear my HIV as a badge of shame any longer.

Offline anniebc

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2011, 11:51:50 PM »
But no one ever answers this question.  Yea we all know it doesn't change the fact where still positive but I believe if he knew he should be held somewhat accountable.  I too want to know what one does to check into this.  To know we have had some knowingly infect us.  Its one thing not knowing and passing it on its another to purposely know.  I see it as taking action and not feeling like a victim.  Is that so wrong??

If you want to play the victim that's fine, but stop pointing the finger and putting the blame on someone else for your mistakes, it's your responsibility to look after your own health..and only your's, the reason you are positive is because you didn't do the right thing, you failed your own body by having unprotected sex...no wonder we can't get rid of the stigma that comes with this virus...jeez.

Jan
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Offline PozJeepGuy

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2011, 12:37:26 AM »
What bull shit.  Yes I made the decision to trust my partner.  I asked for a HIV test and did the same before we decided not to use them anymore between him and I.  I clearly spoke up and said if you sleep with some one else please use a condom and if you dint please respect me enough to let me know so I can take the steps to protect my self.  Yes I made the decision to be open and respectful enough to say I will not prosecute you if you do step out just be safe.  And all i heard was I would never do that too you.  Two years later for me he comes home and has anal warts, that was my first clue he isn't on board with what we discussed.  That was in January and I left in Feb.  Once I knew the truth I got out but it was too late.  After being diagnose in august my doc tells me you most likely were infected in Nov to DEC.  So where did I mess up.  When it comes to matters of the heart how can one go into with trust, but as I have learned the hard way don't trust anyone and use a condom.  I am not ashamed in anyway, however my ex isn't out all the way and will continue to lie to future partners.  Why shouldn't some one like this answer to his actions
Jacob Perry

I refuse to wear my HIV as a badge of shame any longer.

Offline IgotTigerBlood

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2011, 01:00:37 AM »
I know I made a mistake, I know it takes two to tango! But, he had a responsibility to tell me if he knew! Why didn't I use a condom with him? Because I was young, stupid, madly in love, and naive, OBVIOUSLY! That doesn't change the point that he was wrong in not telling me that he was HIV+, WHEN HE KNEW IT before pumping his infected cum in my ass! I fully take responsibility for my actions, that doesn't mean I'm going to be content with life knowing that he could have warned me first.

I would have told him if I'd cheated. I WOULD have told him I was HIV+ if I knew, WHY? Because I loved him, and I gave a damn about him! Unfortunately, I can't say the same thing for him, about how he felt about me. We were engaged and about to start our lives together.....things were sooo good.

He was my first love! I'd NEVER been in love with anybody, or had ever fully trusted anybody, before I met him. The first time we had sex, I cried after! Not because it was bad, or it hurt, but because I never had that spiritual bond with anybody, I'd never experienced what love-making was, what being IN love was! Not by my baby-sitter who raped me for two years when I was a prepubescent child, and not by the first "boyfriend" I had, which lasted a week, shortly after coming out when I was 13, who would come over to just fuck me, then leave right after, when I didn't even know how to enjoy gay sex, then, or what to do other then bend over and wait for him to cum(yes, I'd used condoms with him EVERY time). I lost my trust in humanity with those two prior experiences, and trusted NO ONE after that, until I met him, my EX.

We didn't just fuck, we made love. Half-way through our relationship, for the first time, it just happened... we didn't use a condom... Ya we were scared shortly after, but eventually we did it again, and it was AMAZING! It was the most intimate bond we could ever share, condoms got in the way of that!

Yes, in reality it was stupid, but I wasn't thinking in reality, I was lost in the essence of love, blinded by it really. I HONESTLY didn't think about the consequences, after the second time we made love bareback, and every time after that. I didn't think something that felt so good, and felt so right could ever ruin my life. Like I said, I was naive, in love, and stupid.

I literally thought we would be together for the rest of our lives! We lived together, slept together, ate together, watched TV together, and yes made stupid decisions together, but it DOESN'T exclude his responsibility from informing me that he had HIV, after he was diagnosed. He SHOULD have told me, and he DIDN'T.... Last time I checked, regardless if "it takes two to tango", that's against the law.

Yes, I would feel better, knowing that he was locked up behind bars for what he did, because I KNOW he's giving it to other people too! He's on ADAM4ADAM.com, and his profile says he's HIV negative! I'm not the only one, anymore, and I'm sure of that! He's a man-whore, I just figured him out too late... Other than my own personal relief, knowing he'd pay for what he'd done, it would let other selfish careless scumbags out there think twice before spreading this disease knowingly to others! Even if I didn't feel better after his possible prosecution, I'd feel better knowing I made an impact on other peoples' lives, and maybe even prevented one more person from being infected! I would feel good about that, yes!

By the way, I'm looking for another therapist, but my insurance won't allow it, right now.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 01:41:24 AM by IgotTigerBlood »
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2011, 02:31:35 AM »
I think there is a double standard in gay relationships vs married straight folks.  For gays, most would say you should still always use condoms even with a longtime partner.  If you don't and get infected, many would say it was your responsibility to protect yourself. 

With married str8 folks, it is just a given that you don't use condoms.  In fact, most would be surprised and dumbfounded to hear you were using condoms--unless it was to prevent pregnancy.  If my dad cheated on my mom and infected her, no one would say she should have protected herself.  Well, unless it was known that he cheated on her.  How many of our parents ever used condoms?  And, it isn't just older people like our parents.  If someone 18 who was married and straight got infected, no one would say she/he should have protected herself/himself--unless it was known there was infidelity.  Does being gay mean you have to take more precautions in a "marriage"?  But, when you say things like this, many will take offense saying it doesn't matter if you're gay or straight, and it is stigmatizing gays to suggest you need to protect yourself more than a straight counterpart.  And, while it is true the virus doesn't care about your sexuality, society does say different things about using protection in gay/str8 marriages or longtime partnerships. 


Offline bocker3

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2011, 07:45:02 AM »
I think there is a double standard in gay relationships vs married straight folks.  For gays, most would say you should still always use condoms even with a longtime partner.  If you don't and get infected, many would say it was your responsibility to protect yourself. 

With married str8 folks, it is just a given that you don't use condoms.  In fact, most would be surprised and dumbfounded to hear you were using condoms--unless it was to prevent pregnancy.  If my dad cheated on my mom and infected her, no one would say she should have protected herself.  Well, unless it was known that he cheated on her.  How many of our parents ever used condoms?  And, it isn't just older people like our parents.  If someone 18 who was married and straight got infected, no one would say she/he should have protected herself/himself--unless it was known there was infidelity.  Does being gay mean you have to take more precautions in a "marriage"?  But, when you say things like this, many will take offense saying it doesn't matter if you're gay or straight, and it is stigmatizing gays to suggest you need to protect yourself more than a straight counterpart.  And, while it is true the virus doesn't care about your sexuality, society does say different things about using protection in gay/str8 marriages or longtime partnerships. 



Ted -- I think you are trying to confuse the issue here with something that doesn't fully fit.  Re-read what he just wrote.  He says that they used condoms and then, one time didn't, they were "scared shortly after", but eventually they did it again.  They were "scared", I assume, because they realized that they just took a risk that could have caused HIV or anothe STD to be transmitted from one to another.  NO WHERE DOES IT STATE THEY WENT TO GET TESTED TOGETHER.  Nope -- they got scared, but decided to go on having unprotected sex.  There is a lesson here -- that lesson (as Ann as typed more times than I can count) -- if you consent to unprotected sex, you are consenting to the possibility of getting an STD.

To the OP -- I get your anger.  Love does blind us.  IF he knew his status (and my reading of your posts suggest that you only THINK he knew -- perhaps he didn't), then he DID have a responsibility to tell you, IMO (though others may disagree).  However, you really do need to deal with yourself first.  You may say how you want to save someone else, if he is still doing this, but the sense I am getting from you is that this is about retribution, not altruism.  You say that you know it takes two to tango, but then you excuse all your own choices by being "naive", "in love" and his lying to you.  So, take care of you first.  Then reconsider this other action -- are you really up to all the time, energy, pain and money that it could take to pursue this?  There would be publicity -- and your case still might not be taken on for prosecution.

I am NOT taking his side here -- I am on your side.  Like love, anger can lead us to make choices we regret later.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
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Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Online mecch

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2011, 08:32:25 AM »
Igot, you are not a bad person for making mistakes with a bad person. Unfortunately, you're paying a very high price.  Remember that there are many people who get burned by their relationships with narcissists.  People face financial ruin, wrecked families, hearts in shreds.  

Its curious you are still using the words "we were in love", we this, we that.  Your ex is either 1) deeply in denial to himself, or 2) knows exactly what he's doing to other people and is a bit pathological.  I don't mean just about HIV.   I mean LYING and abusing.

Because he is a LIAR, he is harming others to protect his pleasures and ego.  So in fact there was never any "we" - you were totally duped in the entirety of that "love affair", my friend!  

(Also, its not a given he's on the gay chat as false HIV- in order to INFECT others.  Maybe he's just cant deal with reality.  In any event - you can't control a selfish person like this, be glad he's out of your life.  The reason the standard line is "protect yourself" is that obviously every future partner of this ex will need to protect himself from the lying jerk.  Also, I could imagine someone who is a liar being in SUCH SHOCK at the truth of his lies, the damange they do, that he lies some more to protect himself from the pain and suffering of reality.  This may be why he fucked you without a condom after knowing he was HIV+ - he was in gaga-land, my dear!)

My personal opinion on this differs a bit from the normal opinion on this board.  I do think everyone has to protect himself. But I do know that there are many situations in which one partner abuses the trust of another in very despicable ways, and there are criminal statues that prosecute this in some states and some nations. The problem is, my friend, that these criminal statues also prosecute ABSOLUTELY NON CRIMINAL acts as well - meaning that while some laws may cover some very nasty acts - there are criminalization laws that will land people behind bars purely on bias and fear about people with HIV.

It is just my gut instinct that you are not in a cool emotional place that would actually be rewarded by a conviction of this person.  

Immoral acts between lovers, immoral actions between friends ----- sometimes criminal law, and even civil law, is not the path to healing.  I would encourage you to talk to a LAWYER and/or social worker very familiar with criminal HIV transmission prosecution.  There are all kinds of things you would have to take on, in order to pursue this, and you dont even know if its possible.  In any event, the person who does know, will give you some advice about whether its possible, and whether its worth it emotionally.

The other way to deal with a bad seed is to learn from your burn so you don't get burned again so easily.  

And, maybe in about a year, you dress this person down to his face.  It is perfectly possible that your boyfriend, fucked up as he is, did have feelings for you.  If you are cool, and human, when you contact him to talk, sometime in the future, you can catch him out in a conversation and tell him exactly what you think.  I did this to an ex, a very selfish guy, and my dressing down left him a trembling mess of regret and shame.  Shame and guilt -  the WORST feelings for a narcissist - this is the source of all their social and moral ineptitude.  They can't sit in shame, and guilt means accountability to others.  I saw shame and guilt on his face, and I walked away feeling like I got some closure.

But really it just takes time. A lot of time.  And healing wont have at all to do with him.  
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 11:22:41 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline BT65

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2011, 09:25:28 AM »
In my opinion, people who put themselves on hook-up sites should assume every person they hook up with has some kind of std. 

There was a case here not too long ago about a strip club that got raided.  And one woman was arrested for having HIV and not disclosing.  Now, if a man goes into a strip club, and decides to sleep with one of the strippers, he should assume she has something.  For crying out loud, that's the environment, the situation that people put themselves in, and then want to blame everyone else.

I'm sorry about your situation.  I was infected by my first husband, and he died when I was in treatment for drug abuse.  Knowing what he was like, I knew he was probably out screwing around.  And, he was my first love, met him when I was 16, he was 21.  (And I had beeen through an abduction and rape myself, so I understand your past victimization, because I've been there too. If you're still having problems with that, you should probably get some therapy.).  That does not excuse me from "blindly" believing I was his only one.  It's my virus, my responsibility.

Of course I think if there's going to be unprotected sex. I think a lot of things should happen in this life, but guess what?  Life happens, and they don't.  Life ain't fair, and people don't act right.  It's up to adults to act like adults.  HIV criminalization should not happen.  I hope you get things sorted out.  I suggest seeing a therapist, and maybe getting into a support group.  Get the anger out in other ways, so when you think about this you can think with a clear mind.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 09:32:16 AM by BT65 »
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2011, 10:14:03 AM »
Hi Igot,

Your anger is perfectly understandable. You loved and trusted someone and he infected you. I'm not going to go into the whole argument about your sexual health being your own responsibility, I think you know that already.

All I am going to say is that you are still seething with anger. Pursuing legal action is proabably going to get you more frustrated and make that anger worse. You really dont want mud slinging in a legal battle. Things have the potential to get ugly and really get you no where. Sadly, but importantly, at the end of it, YOU WILL STILL BE POZ! Everyone's sexual health is their responsibility and theirs alone. You said you want to save others from being infected. That may be partly true, but it seems as though this is more about you getting back at him, and such anger and revengeful thoughts in my opinion, are going to stop you from coming terms with HIV and just getting on with life. I think you should get a good therapist, get all this stuff out of your system and move on. He's (your ex) a scum bag, don't waste your life over him.

BTW, I don't mean to underplay your anger/feelings- I understand why you feel the way you do. But as an objective third party I really think you will not gain a single thing from going down the legal route other than more frustration.
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline SunnyFlorida

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2011, 10:26:33 AM »
IgotTigerBlood,

Here in Florida, it is a felony to knowingly infect people HIV without informing the partner. With that said, it can be a drawn out and frustrating legal battle for you that'd take up too much of your time, money and energy - those that would be better directed toward your health. I have to agree with what everybody else has said. You're angry, it's natural. You want vindication. But in the end, you're still HIV+.

You have HIV. The best thing for you to do now is to manage your condition just like everybody else with HIV. You're part of a wonderful and amazing support community. Use it! :D
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 10:50:04 AM by SunnyFlorida »

Offline Ann

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2011, 10:47:43 AM »
it would let other selfish careless scumbags out there think twice before spreading this disease knowingly to others!

Actually, criminalisation of hiv transmission only furthers the stigma we face and makes it less likely that people will willingly disclose their hiv status for fear of being prosecuted. Criminalisation of hiv also makes it less likely that people will get tested for hiv. Criminalisation of hiv sucks and it only makes things worse for all of us, not better.

You're going to have a difficult time two years down the line proving that he infected you. You're going to face cross-examination that will put your sex life under a microscope - it's not going to be pleasant and will only make you even more miserable than you are now. Do you really want to put yourself through that?

I can understand your anger, I really can, but I cannot understand your willingness to take action that furthers the stigma we face. Please don't do it, for your sake and for the sake of every other person living with this virus.

I hope you can get your insurance issues sorted out so you can get back into therapy. Holding on to that anger is only going to be detrimental to your health and well-being. You might also ask at your local ASO - some offer counselling. You can find an ASO near you by using POZ.com's Health Services Directory - scroll down to the second half of the page, the first bit is for finding places to test.
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline SunnyFlorida

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2011, 10:49:44 AM »
Actually, criminalisation of hiv transmission only furthers the stigma we face and makes it less likely that people will willingly disclose their hiv status for fear of being prosecuted. Criminalisation of hiv also makes it less likely that people will get tested for hiv. Criminalisation of hiv sucks and it only makes things worse for all of us, not better.

Oh geez, I never thought of it like this... You are absolutely correct. It'd only serve to harm more people in the long run. The best thing to do is to emphasize safer sex. :/

Offline Maelrod

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2011, 11:37:41 AM »
No much to say here.  Just stop living in the past, yesterday is gone.  If you wanna have a happy end you have to focus on today....
Is better STOp living in the past, the I SHOULDn't doesn't exist.

Online Jeff G

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2011, 11:59:08 AM »
Its not that I don't have compassion for what the OP is feeling , I do . In my 26 plus years living with HIV I have never seen anything good come from anyone blaming another person for getting infected with this virus , not once .

One of many good things that come from this forum is you can count on people telling you honestly how they feel , sometime its not what you want to hear but that's what you get .  
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 12:38:36 PM by jg1962 »

Offline geobee

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2011, 12:32:51 PM »
My father used to say that "the ratio of horses asses to horses is greater than 1".  Sounds like your ex proves the adage.  You're coming down from a traumatic experience -- pursing justice will just retraumatize you.  My advice is to start the healing process by being gentle with yourself and forgiving yourself for getting HIV.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2011, 01:18:55 PM »



   Something to think about, a person who is out knowingly infecting others lends to the stigma we all suffer as well.  The general public perceives us as not giving one shit who we give this to.  I know I can't be the only one who has been asked  at a doctor visit whether I was practicing safe sex or not, as well as being reminded that it was against the law not to disclose.  So when does a doctor visit become a venue for legal advice?  I gather from this that even the most informed and educated think ill of us.... 

   These cases usually hit the news here in Florida when there has been a number of people infected by someone.  This doesn't bode well for the public's perception of us what so ever.  So, with that said, when would be the right time for someone to come forward with information regarding someone infecting others purposely or just not giving a shit if they do for that matter?

   

   
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Online mecch

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2011, 02:13:56 PM »
So far this is no indication that this ex-boyfriend is the new Typhoid Mary of gay cruise sites.  We can trust the OP that the ex lied and they had unsafe sex. Remember that was during a relationship.

We hear that the ex-bf is now lying about his HIV status on an online profile. That is hardly criminal.  That is NOT the same as having unsafe sex nor is it the same as having unsafe sex with the objective to transmit.  

These are slippery slopes of reasoning.

Let's not jump from situation to situation, act to act, as if its all the same.  A bf lying about hiv, its a pretty vile act to overcome.
Go onto a cruise site, meet some guy, have unsafe sex "because his profile says he's neg" - that's a different situation. Different discussion.

Lets not confuse the issues please.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 02:17:13 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2011, 02:25:57 PM »
So far this is no indication that this ex-boyfriend is the new Typhoid Mary of gay cruise sites.  We can trust the OP that the ex lied and they had unsafe sex. Remember that was during a relationship.

We hear that the ex-bf is now lying about his HIV status on an online profile. That is hardly criminal.  That is NOT the same as having unsafe sex nor is it the same as having unsafe sex with the objective to transmit.  

These are slippery slopes of reasoning.

I'm speaking in general Mecch.  This guys boyfriend has not made the front page news.... yet.   I agree that lying about ones status on a dating website is hardly criminal however, it does show some intent to not be truthful regarding his status.  It is quite possible that such info could be used in prosecuting him in the future.

I agree that it's all about personal responsibility and I guess this is where the slippery slope comes into play-- when do we ourselves hold some accountability in all this?
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Online mecch

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2011, 02:49:28 PM »
Unfortunately --- when there's a terrible result from lies and abuse in relationships -- its difficult to hold oneself ultimately accountable.  After all, nobody expects to get kicked in stomach, so to speak, by one's lover.  Particularly the young!

It is NOT "just".  What we are saying is that sometimes no "justice" is possible.  Its part of the human experience. 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline newt

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2011, 06:09:35 PM »
Quote
Why didn't I use a condom with him? Because I was young, stupid, madly in love, and naive

Yep, pretty much my case. Being in love is a great feeling but it has downsides.

He was a liar, he could have lied about many things, like being married etc, but this time it was HIV. I am sorry for this.

You can got to the law for justice, but your life, very personal life, will be raked over the coals in public, and you will still be HIV+. Every Google search will bring up every news story about you and him for as long as the world wide web exists. In which case, you will never be free of him.

If it was herpes would you feel as strongly, or is it something about the HIV virus?

- matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline buginme2

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2011, 06:37:33 PM »
If you are a woman who was infected by a man you may have a chance in pursuing legal options.  If you are a gay man, fat chance on getting a prosecutor to file charges and a jury to convict.

I too agree criminalization of HIV is counterproductive, leads to further stigmatization, and wont help you in the lo ng run.   

Why bother?
Don't be fancy, just get dancey

Offline poz91

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2011, 10:37:57 PM »
...my baby-sitter who raped me for two years when I was a prepubescent child...

Were charges ever filed against the babysitter who molested you, and if so, was s/he tested for HIV...?

If your HIV had already progressed to the point that you were being hospitalized by the age of 19 (assuming it was HIV related?), that would seem to suggest you were infected before you met your ex...


Offline pozoz

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2011, 03:26:56 AM »
Actually, criminalisation of hiv transmission only furthers the stigma we face and makes it less likely that people will willingly disclose their hiv status for fear of being prosecuted. Criminalisation of hiv also makes it less likely that people will get tested for hiv. Criminalisation of hiv sucks and it only makes things worse for all of us, not better.

You're going to have a difficult time two years down the line proving that he infected you. You're going to face cross-examination that will put your sex life under a microscope - it's not going to be pleasant and will only make you even more miserable than you are now. Do you really want to put yourself through that?

I can understand your anger, I really can, but I cannot understand your willingness to take action that furthers the stigma we face. Please don't do it, for your sake and for the sake of every other person living with this virus.

I hope you can get your insurance issues sorted out so you can get back into therapy. Holding on to that anger is only going to be detrimental to your health and well-being. You might also ask at your local ASO - some offer counselling. You can find an ASO near you by using POZ.com's Health Services Directory - scroll down to the second half of the page, the first bit is for finding places to test.

Perfectly said Ann, truer words have not been spoken...
Seroconverted Aug 2008
Tested Pos      May 2009
May 09 CD4 544 19%   VL 22K
Aug 09 CD4 514  19% VL 25K
Dec 09 CD4 510  20% VL 32K
June10 CD4 502  20% VL 36K
July 5th,10 Start Truvada  Reyataz Norvir July 30  CD4 360  21% VL 339
Oct  22 CD4 459  27% VL 191
Jan 2011CD4 561 33% VL U/D <40
Feb  Add Verimune lead in dose to start switch to Verimune/Truvada  
Mar 17 Viramune x2 + Truvada. Stop PIs   
Apr 29     CD4 528 33% VL U/D
July 2011 CD4 440  %?  VL U/D
Sept 2011CD4 620  %?   VL U/D
Dec 2011 CD4 531 31% VL 224
Jan 2012  CD4 576 36% VL U/D
May 2012 CD4 504 36% U/D (start Viramune XR
July 2012 576 (36%) (test request due to XR issues)
Feb  2013 629  (? %) U/D
July  2013 608 38%.   U/D
Jan  14.    576  36%.   UD

Offline carousel

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2011, 05:11:56 AM »
From your post, I was wondering whether you are suffering some kind of post-traumatic stress.  I know it's not for me to diagnose, but it does sound you are stuck in this experience and need some help to move on.

I kind of understand your need to get some legal redress, even if it will not make you popular among many HIVers.

I think of myself as being quite a good person, but I wonder how well it would sound in court if it was tested against an Ex boyfriend.  Drug taking, partying, unprotected sex and taking time off work and probably lots of other things they could bring up.  I would baulk at having my character being dragged through the courts.  And then what if it got into the media.  I could see it being very difficult for me, my family, friends and career.  But then, I am not sure how relevant this is in your case though.

But having gone through the legal process, what if there was not enough proof for a conviction to hold.  I think I would take that quite badly and be back to square one.

I know that professional help is really helpful, but if that is not possible at the moment, is there anyone close to you that you can talk this one out with, even if that is somebody at the end of the telephone.  Holding in lots of raw emotions is really difficult and destructive.




Offline IgotTigerBlood

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2011, 08:28:59 AM »
 To answer some questions and make a few statements regarding this topic:

- Yes, I've been tested for HIV and STD's years ago after being molested and coming out about the issue of being taken advantage of by older men while I was a child, and I'd come up negative for everything including HIV! Thus, I knew my HIV status before entering my last relationship, and I was negative! Charges weren't filed because I was too intimidated to face my abuser over the phone at the age of 13, in an attempt for the FBI to record him admitting the abuse. I don't think I'll ever be able to face my abuser in any situation, in person or over the phone, even if I was 90 years old, I couldn't!

- I don't care if/how criminalizing HIV infected individuals for knowingly infecting others may affect "the masses"! Ya'll shouldn't be fucking clueless men/women without condoms if you know you're HIV positive, period!! Anyone who does deserves a bullet through their brain!

- If criminalizing HIV individuals whom refuse to conceal their HIV status to unknowing people won't get the message across to have safe sex, since obviously NOTHING is being done to promote safe sex effectively, generally, what will convey people to be open about their status, or to protect themselves from HIV/STD's? Statistics prove that whatever methods are being exercised is not accomplishing shit!!

- I'm starting EMDR therapy, hopefully it will reduce some of my PTSD symptoms. I don't care about "revenge" against my ex. I know he loved me, at one time, and I know humans make mistakes, including myself. I was going through a nervous breakdown when I started this thread...flashbacks and psychosis dampened my way of life, and sometimes when I have mental breakdown's I have bizarre impulses to get justice, if it's by law, or by my own hands. I hope this profound therapy does the trick!

- I have taken responsibility for my stupidity and ignorance resulting in my HIV status! I'm sick of aged queens aka long-time survivors lecturing me on how it was my fault initially..I acknowledge that, clearly! So shut the fuck up!

- HIV sucks; and me seeking justice for someone else's failure to inform others of his/her HIV status before infecting others WILL NOT make any difference in the stigma out there (especially in the young gay community!) that already exists and will continue to exist no matter what!

- HIV will ALWAYS be a taboo subject, regardless of how many scumbags are brought to justice for infecting unsuspecting individuals, or despite how many people come out about their status in order to educate people, and lessen the stigma out there, in the sake of prevention.

- The public will always conceive HIV individuals as being promiscuous faggot crystal meth junkies! Regardless of any prosecutions achieved, or the numbers of black heterosexual woman getting infected, HIV will always be a gay illness in the public eye! It's always been, and always will be! It's still a common subject in many comedy routines online and on television. One prosecution won't change anyone's perspective of HIV!

- I don't plan to pursue charges against my ex. I just want closure, and I'm not finding it... I've seen him after the fact of being diagnosed, he's admitted to his mistakes, and has pleaded for my forgiveness, but that did not bring me any closure, it seems to have just prolonged my agony. I had told him I'd forgiven him, in hopes that would help my own struggle cease, but it hasn't.

- A gun or knife can be very helpful in times of desperation for peace and contentment... just saying. It doesn't have to be in the public or on the news! (joking! relax!)

- If you're HIV positive and have/had knowingly infected others who were clueless of your status, please do the world a favor and kill yourself! I have no sympathy for murderers! Although HIV is a "manageable" disease, it still is horrible in every sense, and the quality of life you'll have after being diagnosed will never be anywhere close to where you where prior to infection! Thus, murdering your old life, a life without HIV!


                                                              "Good luck, and don't fuck it up!" - Rupaul





« Last Edit: May 15, 2011, 08:34:27 AM by IgotTigerBlood »
You wish you knew...

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2011, 08:38:45 AM »
I'm sick of aged queens aka long-time survivors lecturing me on how it was my fault initially..I acknowledge that, clearly! So shut the fuck up!

Do you really find that appropriate?
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2011, 08:44:28 AM »
So we're promiscuous faggot crystal meth junkies and you're a black heterosexual woman. I think the the public might be a bit more descriptive in both cases. Keep it real.

Offline CaptCarl

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2011, 09:25:16 AM »

 I'm sick of aged queens aka long-time survivors lecturing me on how it was my fault initially..I acknowledge that, clearly! So shut the fuck up!

Tiger-
I understand you anger, our stories of infection are similar. But I gotta tell you that you attitude really sucks. Calling me, or any other LTS an "aged queen" isn't going to win you any amount of sympathy around here. If you want to be treated with respect, you need to act accordingly and treat others with respect. It's that simple. And until you acknowledge your responsibility in your infection, you will never find peace.

You came here looking for answers, which you got. Unfortunately for you, they were not the answers you were seeking, answers that would affirm your perceived 'indignant innocent victim' status. Sorry babe, but we are not going to tell you what you want to hear, we are going to tell you what you need to hear. If you cannot handle that , then you are the one who needs to shut the fuck up and stop asking questions that you clearly don't really want real-world answers to.

Best of luck to you

CaptCarl
The only thing I can do straight is shoot..

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2011, 09:40:45 AM »
Aged Queens pay da bills... ready for some young promiscuous faggot crystal meth junkies heads to join my bootcamp. Poppers are negotiable!

"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Ann

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Re: Pursuing Justice... possible?
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2011, 10:40:35 AM »
Tiger,

While I'm very sorry to hear that you were sexually abused as a child, it is no excuse for some of the nasty things you have said about people. Some of what you have written is nothing more than inflammatory flamebait and abusive language directed at gay men. This type of thing is NOT tolerated in these forums. Please consider yourself warned in this respect. Further gay-bashing - and that's what it is, pure and simple - will earn you a time out or perhaps even an outright ban. If you want to gay-bash, you've come to the WRONG place.


- I don't care if/how criminalizing HIV infected individuals for knowingly infecting others may affect "the masses"! Ya'll shouldn't be fucking clueless men/women without condoms if you know you're HIV positive, period!! Anyone who does deserves a bullet through their brain!

Hiv negative people shouldn't be fucking other people without condoms either. Does that mean they also deserve a bullet through their brain? If you think poz people who fuck without condoms are committing murder, then that must mean hiv negative people who fuck without condoms are committing suicide. Both are illegal.


- If criminalizing HIV individuals whom refuse to conceal their HIV status to unknowing people won't get the message across to have safe sex, since obviously NOTHING is being done to promote safe sex effectively, generally, what will convey people to be open about their status, or to protect themselves from HIV/STD's? Statistics prove that whatever methods are being exercised is not accomplishing shit!!

Studies have shown that criminalisation of hiv actually pushes it further underground and decreases the chances that poz people will disclose their status. Criminalisation also discourages people from testing in the first place. Most hiv infections are due to the positive person not knowing their hiv status and assuming they're hiv negative. They're afraid to test and the criminalised aspect of hiv is a very big reason for this fear.



- I have taken responsibility for my stupidity and ignorance resulting in my HIV status! I'm sick of aged queens aka long-time survivors lecturing me on how it was my fault initially..I acknowledge that, clearly! So shut the fuck up!


This is gay-bashing. It wasn't only the gay men here who told you it was your responsibility to insist on condoms, I also told you this. Regardless of who told you this, to say "aged queens aka long term survivors" is gay-bashing. I'm quite sure you would have taken offence if someone here called you a nigger - so do yourself a favour and don't call the men here "aged queens". 

And telling people to "shut the fuck up" is just plain inflammatory. Knock it off.  Besides, you clearly have not accepted your own role in your infection, otherwise you would not have written what you have.



- HIV sucks; and me seeking justice for someone else's failure to inform others of his/her HIV status before infecting others WILL NOT make any difference in the stigma out there (especially in the young gay community!) that already exists and will continue to exist no matter what!


The stigma is constantly being reinforced by the criminalisation of hiv. It's been proven again and again.


- HIV will ALWAYS be a taboo subject, regardless of how many scumbags are brought to justice for infecting unsuspecting individuals, or despite how many people come out about their status in order to educate people, and lessen the stigma out there, in the sake of prevention.


This simply is not true. As more and more people come out of the hiv closet, we're gaining more and more acceptance. When we hide in shame, people assume that we have reason to be ashamed. The more we hide, the more we HAVE to hide. We all too often perpetuate the stigma we face by stigmatising ourselves, and that includes hiv positive people wanting to jail - or put a bullet in the head of - the person from whom we acquired our infection.



- The public will always conceive HIV individuals as being promiscuous faggot crystal meth junkies! Regardless of any prosecutions achieved, or the numbers of black heterosexual woman getting infected, HIV will always be a gay illness in the public eye! It's always been, and always will be! It's still a common subject in many comedy routines online and on television. One prosecution won't change anyone's perspective of HIV!


Again with the gay-bashing! You are on seriously thin ice here. I cannot warn you strongly enough against doing this. Substitute the word nigger for the word faggot and maybe you'll see how offensive your words are.

Maybe this was your prejudiced perception of people with hiv before you found yourself a member of the club, but I assure you, not everyone holds these ignorant views.

I sincerely hope your therapy helps you. However, in the meantime, you will NOT be permitted to use this forum to spout the bile you have in your most recent posting.

This is the one and only warning I am going to give you. If you EVER come back into this forum to spew more gay-bashing rhetoric, you will be given a Time Out, or more likely, a permanent ban. I'd hate to have to give you a permanent ban, but gay-bashing IS NOT TOLERATED in these forums, just like racist rantings are not tolerated.

PLEASE CONSIDER YOURSELF VERY SERIOUSLY WARNED.

I have locked this thread because now that Tiger has been warned, I see no good reason to leave it open. I do not want any other members to loose their cool and possibly face a Time Out themselves.

Tiger, if at some point you want to start a new thread to let us know how you're doing and how your therapy is progressing, please feel free to do so. However, I warn you yet again, gay-bashing will NOT be tolerated.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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