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Author Topic: High CD4 drop  (Read 2341 times)

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Offline billy

  • Member
  • Posts: 38
  • be unique... be best
High CD4 drop
« on: May 11, 2011, 07:23:39 AM »
I know, some of you would be happy with my labs...
but I have a very great drop on my cd4 - minus 700 to previous (see signature).

I had just about 2-3 weeks before test a very small cold, it lasted only 3-4 days, so I don't think that this is the cause. Furthermore, since 4 weeks I am a dog owner (first timer). And now I am wondering if this is one reason too (maybe silly thought). Or maybe drug resistance...

Anyway my doc said i should come in 2 months for another test (instead of 5 months as usually). And maybe my doc can tell me more. I hope my numbers will be better   :-\
09/07: VL 2.200.000
12/07: Kaletra-Kivexa
01/08: T4 720 VL<50
04/08: T4 1.350 VL<50
09/08: T4 1.465 VL<50
02/09: T4 1.230 VL<50
07/09: T4 1.150 VL<50
12/09: T4 1.110 VL<50
06/10: T4 1.600 VL<50
11/10: T4 1.390 VL<50
05/11: T4 700 VL<50
07/11: T4 1.035 VL<50
02/12: T4 1.010 VL<50
06/12: T4 965 VL<50
11/12: T4 850 VL<50
04/13: T4 1220 VL<50
09/13: T4 1100 VL<50
02/14: T4 1120 VL<50

Offline metekrop

  • Member
  • Posts: 364
Re: High CD4 drop
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2011, 07:34:47 AM »
How about the Jamp in your CD from 720 to 1350 sometime in 4/8?  If this is acceptable, there is no reason why you can't accept the drop by 700 now.  So may be this is natural to you.  Anyways keep in touch with your doctor.  ;)
Diag on Dec 8, 2000, CD 440 VL 44K, No Meds
Dec/08 - Feb/09 CD< 50 & VL >500k hosp'z.
St. Atripla - July/09 CD 179, VL 197k
Oct/09 CD 300 VL UD Chol 267
Mar/10 CD 468 UD, Ch 220
Aug/10 CD 460 UD, Ch 195
Dec/10 CD 492 UD, Ch 172
Mar/11 CD 636 UD, Ch 201
Aug/11 CD 530 UD, Ch 98
Jan/12 cd 616 UD, ch 189
Jul/12 CD 640 UD, Ch ?
Dec/12 CD 669 Ud, Ch 125
May/7 CD711 Ud, Ch?
Nov/ 22 663 UD, Ch,
April 17 CD 797,
Oct, 14 CD 810 UD

Offline Ann

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  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: High CD4 drop
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2011, 08:03:31 AM »
Billy, I wouldn't worry too much about the drop. CD4s normally fluctuate and while this is a big fluctuation, the important thing is that your VL is still undetectable. That's what is the most important when on the meds. Try to not stress over it too much. 700 is still a great number!
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline billy

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  • Posts: 38
  • be unique... be best
Re: High CD4 drop
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2011, 12:50:31 PM »
thx Ann  :-*
09/07: VL 2.200.000
12/07: Kaletra-Kivexa
01/08: T4 720 VL<50
04/08: T4 1.350 VL<50
09/08: T4 1.465 VL<50
02/09: T4 1.230 VL<50
07/09: T4 1.150 VL<50
12/09: T4 1.110 VL<50
06/10: T4 1.600 VL<50
11/10: T4 1.390 VL<50
05/11: T4 700 VL<50
07/11: T4 1.035 VL<50
02/12: T4 1.010 VL<50
06/12: T4 965 VL<50
11/12: T4 850 VL<50
04/13: T4 1220 VL<50
09/13: T4 1100 VL<50
02/14: T4 1120 VL<50

Offline elf

  • Member
  • Posts: 617
Re: High CD4 drop
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2011, 12:35:03 AM »
Fluctuations in the ''normal'' range are normal

my results: 353 (test+; started med.)-->510--->800--->1100--->700--->900--->1000--->1200
it's like a wave, it can be lowish in the morning, higher in the evening...
physical activity and rest can also affect the numbers ;)

I'm also on Kaletra+Kivexa so our numbers look similar  ;)
You can expect 1500 next time ;)

My doc. told me the most important things are VL < 50 and CD4>500.
CD4 of 500 and CD4 of 1600 have the same ''clinical'' significance.
You should not focus too much on numbers then they're ''normal''.

I remember having posted here when my CD4 went from 1100 to 700 ;D
so I know how you feel.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 12:47:03 AM by elf »

Offline metekrop

  • Member
  • Posts: 364
Re: High CD4 drop
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2011, 07:59:14 AM »
CD4 of 500 and CD4 of 1600 have the same ''clinical'' significance.
You should not focus too much on numbers then they're ''normal''.

I remember having posted here when my CD4 went from 1100 to 700 ;D
so I know how you feel.

So what is the relevance to have these test is done and mostly told to the patients. I think it may have some significance impact.  At least some significant.  And that is the reason why we mostly having it done for us.  It can not be simply ignored when is going up and down.  Am I worng?
Diag on Dec 8, 2000, CD 440 VL 44K, No Meds
Dec/08 - Feb/09 CD< 50 & VL >500k hosp'z.
St. Atripla - July/09 CD 179, VL 197k
Oct/09 CD 300 VL UD Chol 267
Mar/10 CD 468 UD, Ch 220
Aug/10 CD 460 UD, Ch 195
Dec/10 CD 492 UD, Ch 172
Mar/11 CD 636 UD, Ch 201
Aug/11 CD 530 UD, Ch 98
Jan/12 cd 616 UD, ch 189
Jul/12 CD 640 UD, Ch ?
Dec/12 CD 669 Ud, Ch 125
May/7 CD711 Ud, Ch?
Nov/ 22 663 UD, Ch,
April 17 CD 797,
Oct, 14 CD 810 UD

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: High CD4 drop
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2011, 10:40:28 AM »
So what is the relevance to have these test is done and mostly told to the patients. I think it may have some significance impact.  At least some significant.  And that is the reason why we mostly having it done for us.  It can not be simply ignored when is going up and down.  Am I worng?

It's the trends over time that matter the most. The difference from one individual test result to the next isn't all that significant. When on treatment, the most important thing is that the VL remains undetectable. As long as the CD4 is consistently over 200 while on treatment, it isn't that important.

We're told what our numbers are so we can keep our own track of our trends. You don't have to be told what your numbers are if you don't want to know, but most of us want to know. We're supposed to be in a partnership with our health care providers, so keeping track is just as important for us as it is for them.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline drewm

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,186
Re: High CD4 drop
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2011, 11:26:48 AM »
My CD-4 count one year ago was 8 (that's not a mis-type, it was e-i-g-h-t) my VL was 500,000. In a year my VL has dropped to undetectable and CD-4's have rebounded to 327. Ann is correct that the threshold while on treatment is 200 but even then its possible for them to drop with no noticeable effect. CD-4's are a funny thing in that they can fluctuate by 100 or more between morning and afternoon, working out, stress, etc etc

The overriding concerns when on treatment are a trend in numbers that show improvement in over-all CD4 counts (again losing or gaining some in one lab is not an alarm bell) but keeping or moving that VL to an undetectable level.

I keep track of my numbers, primarily so I know where I am at. I have learned to leave most of the worrying to my doctor with whom I have great communication. If he is not worried, I am not worried and the last 3 or 4 times I have been to see him, he was extremely pleased.

I hope this helps. I remember the celebration with my Medical Case Worker and Doc when my VL got down to 1,000. Being near death a year ago, it was quite a party! Celebrate the victories, keep an eye on your health but try not to read too much into it. Try as we might to understand this bug, I find myself saying "it is what it is" because that is reality.

 ;) :)
Drew
Diagnosed in  May of 2010 with teh AIDS.

PCP Pneumonia . CD4 8 . VL 500,000

TRIUMEQ - VALTREX -  FLUOXETINE - FENOFIBRATE - PRAVASTATIN - CIALIS


Numbers consistent since 12/2010 - VL has remained undetectable and CD4 is anywhere from 275-325

Offline Ann

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  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: High CD4 drop
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2011, 11:46:08 AM »

"it is what it is" because that is reality.


It just is, OK? ;D
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline billy

  • Member
  • Posts: 38
  • be unique... be best
Re: High CD4 drop
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2011, 11:49:55 AM »
thx guys, all of you... and i really was a bit worrying if it was cuz I have a dog ;-)
also because right after (1 week I got him) I got a little cold... and he is so cute... at least it is not my dogs "fault"   ;D

kisses
09/07: VL 2.200.000
12/07: Kaletra-Kivexa
01/08: T4 720 VL<50
04/08: T4 1.350 VL<50
09/08: T4 1.465 VL<50
02/09: T4 1.230 VL<50
07/09: T4 1.150 VL<50
12/09: T4 1.110 VL<50
06/10: T4 1.600 VL<50
11/10: T4 1.390 VL<50
05/11: T4 700 VL<50
07/11: T4 1.035 VL<50
02/12: T4 1.010 VL<50
06/12: T4 965 VL<50
11/12: T4 850 VL<50
04/13: T4 1220 VL<50
09/13: T4 1100 VL<50
02/14: T4 1120 VL<50

Offline drewm

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,186
Re: High CD4 drop
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2011, 12:14:53 PM »
Hey Billy, on a side note, one thing I have done is paid more attention to avoiding infection. I wash my hands (all the time) and wash vegetables and so on. This is not so much out of fear but in reality, we should be doing it anyway. Hang in there, OK?  :)
Diagnosed in  May of 2010 with teh AIDS.

PCP Pneumonia . CD4 8 . VL 500,000

TRIUMEQ - VALTREX -  FLUOXETINE - FENOFIBRATE - PRAVASTATIN - CIALIS


Numbers consistent since 12/2010 - VL has remained undetectable and CD4 is anywhere from 275-325

Offline randym431

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,125
Re: High CD4 drop
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2011, 04:26:25 AM »
Any HIV doctor would say "your still undetectable, thats the important thing".
And it might help to know the average CD4 fluctuation of the non HIV population.
I don't know... but I'd expect many non HIV people might have similar fluctuations?
That is, a drop of 500 or more from time to time. ?

Offline eric48

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  • Posts: 1,206
  • @HIVPharmaCure & tinyurl.com/HIVPharmaCure
Re: High CD4 drop
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2011, 06:12:26 PM »
Hi Billy,

Isn't that you who had started a thread titled my CD4 skyrockets!!!

a while ago ?

Cheers

Eric

NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   safety stock : 3 months (2013: FOTO= 5d. ON 2d. OFF ; 2014: NCT02157311 = 4d. ON, 3d. OFF)

Offline billy

  • Member
  • Posts: 38
  • be unique... be best
Re: High CD4 drop
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2011, 03:18:47 AM »
You're right eric48...
it was a bit long ago... so maybe it is time to post there again (after my next test)

;)
09/07: VL 2.200.000
12/07: Kaletra-Kivexa
01/08: T4 720 VL<50
04/08: T4 1.350 VL<50
09/08: T4 1.465 VL<50
02/09: T4 1.230 VL<50
07/09: T4 1.150 VL<50
12/09: T4 1.110 VL<50
06/10: T4 1.600 VL<50
11/10: T4 1.390 VL<50
05/11: T4 700 VL<50
07/11: T4 1.035 VL<50
02/12: T4 1.010 VL<50
06/12: T4 965 VL<50
11/12: T4 850 VL<50
04/13: T4 1220 VL<50
09/13: T4 1100 VL<50
02/14: T4 1120 VL<50

 


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