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Author Topic: (I Always Feel Like) Somebody's Watching Me  (Read 2588 times)

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Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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(I Always Feel Like) Somebody's Watching Me
« on: April 22, 2011, 02:05:35 PM »
So it seems everyone is all in uproar over the fact that some "secret" file tracks your whereabouts if you own an iPhone or iPad.

Some people seem to think that Apple is akin to a cult that can do no wrong when it comes to people who buy their products

Anyway... I discovered there was a way to access this "tracking" information and decided to take a look at it to see what the fuss was all about.  All I saw was cell-phone towers in the general vicinity of the areas I was in at any given time. It wasn't like there was a big push pin in a map showing my home address, doctor's office, or even the liquor store that I picked up a six pack from a year ago.

Sheesh, people really need to stop hating on Apple.  (Yeah, I own several Apple products, but I am not a fanboi.)  I'll bet the ones who are paranoid and all up on this latest conspiracy theory are the main ones who bitched about iPhones only being available on AT&T and couldn't wait until Verizon started offering them so they could give the finger to AT&T, because according to their logic any other cell phone carrier is superior to AT&T, and don't have their share of problems.

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Offline mecch

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Re: (I Always Feel Like) Somebody's Watching Me
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2011, 03:22:43 PM »
I dunno.
I wonder if we'll see this information subpoenaed in court soon enough.  Maybe I've been watching too much The Good Wife!  Cell phone records are submitted all the time in cases on that show.  Is this real?
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: (I Always Feel Like) Somebody's Watching Me
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2011, 03:56:50 PM »
Is this real?

Just google "iphone tracking file" just to see how much hysteria is all over the interwebs

Shades of 1984

don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
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Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: (I Always Feel Like) Somebody's Watching Me
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2011, 04:53:56 PM »
I don't see this an Apple issue as apparently there are some HTC Android phones that do log your movements. Google, Facebook and other companies keep a lot of information about people. I am not paranoid and after as much information I have posted on the internet I have no room to complain about invasion of privacy (nude photos anyone?). However I do think that people should know that people can track you with your phone or electronic device. I have seen videos where you can hack people's phone, turn on their receiver, and listen to their conversations when they are not even on the phone. If Apple, Google or Microsoft were turning on the cameras of your devices and viewing you in your home I think people should know about that. People need to be informed about the limits of privacy and it is the responsibility of these companies to make that information public.

Offline mecch

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Re: (I Always Feel Like) Somebody's Watching Me
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2011, 05:59:23 PM »
Just google "iphone tracking file" just to see how much hysteria is all over the interwebs

Shades of 1984

Is it real that cell phone records are used frequently in court? If so, then why not also this tracking? I bet it will prove quite handy for some cases.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: (I Always Feel Like) Somebody's Watching Me
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2011, 08:48:47 PM »
Apple iPhones secretly track and record their owners’ location, a potentially devastating privacy breach that experts warn could force people to face the fact that they never really go anywhere interesting.


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Offline SunnyFlorida

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Re: (I Always Feel Like) Somebody's Watching Me
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2011, 09:32:24 PM »
Yes, my iPhone has been keeping a database of my locations without my knowledge. No, I don't give a flying shit about it. In fact, I think it's awesome because it tracked me as I made a road trip from Central Florida to NYC, then State College, PA and then back home, with some trips to Orlando and Fort Lauderdale. This is freaking awesome.


Offline BigDaneDogs

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Re: (I Always Feel Like) Somebody's Watching Me
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2011, 10:31:20 PM »
I know that I can log into my Me account at Apple and have it find my iPhone for me.  This is quite handy for me since I misplace it often.  As for them tracking me, I'm a BORING person to track - lol.
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: (I Always Feel Like) Somebody's Watching Me
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2011, 12:18:36 AM »
I don't see this an Apple issue as apparently there are some HTC Android phones that do log your movements. Google, Facebook and other companies keep a lot of information about people. I am not paranoid and after as much information I have posted on the internet I have no room to complain about invasion of privacy (nude photos anyone?). However I do think that people should know that people can track you with your phone or electronic device. I have seen videos where you can hack people's phone, turn on their receiver, and listen to their conversations when they are not even on the phone. If Apple, Google or Microsoft were turning on the cameras of your devices and viewing you in your home I think people should know about that. People need to be informed about the limits of privacy and it is the responsibility of these companies to make that information public.

I had seen news reports about the ability to turn on someone's phone and camera and listen and see them--even if the phone was turned off.  It looks like we'd have phone geeks doing this to celebrities.  There was also that story about a school turning on a school issued laptop and seeing what a student was doing at home.  So, we know this is possible.  I think it would be interesting to listen in to friends to see what they say about you after you leave.  Well, probably wouldn't want to hear it.  I wouldn't want it done to me, but they would just be bored with what they heard or saw.  The vain part of me would be worried about someone seeing me looking like hell or picking a boog...lol.  Rupurt Murdock's News Of The World or whatever it is called is in trouble now due to hacking into the voicemail of celebrities and Prince Harry and William.  Wonder if FOX or Wall Street Journal are doing that here? 

Offline tednlou2

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Re: (I Always Feel Like) Somebody's Watching Me
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2011, 01:20:20 AM »
ABC News covered this story, or non-story, tonight.  They used Diane Sawyer's phone to pull up everywhere she had been in the last 10 months.  It showed NYC, Japan, The Carribean, and her trip home here to Louisville.  It didn't show her mother's Louisville address or anything.  I was curious about all the places she went outside of Louisville that showed up.  I'm sure family.  Just curiosity on my part.  It seems like this is no big deal.  But, it is not encrypted, so anyone who had your phone could track where you've been, or the general area.  I would think that is no big deal for most people unless someone is stalking you and figuring out where you go.  Or, if you were cheating.  Or, if you lived in a rural area and traveled to a larger city for HIV treatment and someone saw you were traveling to that city.  Still, you could lie about why you went or tell them it is none of their damn business.  We are tracked by our credit/debit cards, cameras are everywhere, and even our cars now have tracking equipment, and not just cars with On-Star. 

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/apple-iphones-track-users-smartphone-market-consumer-electronics-privacy-concerns-questions-business-13439927

Offline OneTampa

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Offline SunnyFlorida

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Re: (I Always Feel Like) Somebody's Watching Me
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2011, 11:58:18 AM »


This is who you should be worried about...

Offline Ann

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Re: (I Always Feel Like) Somebody's Watching Me
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2011, 10:51:07 AM »
I have seen videos where you can hack people's phone, turn on their receiver, and listen to their conversations when they are not even on the phone


What? How can they listen to a conversation you're not having on your phone? Or do you mean they can listen to conversations you're having with someone actually in the room with you? Because if that IS what you mean, that's pretty scary. Makes me want to chuck my phone out.
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Offline SunnyFlorida

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Re: (I Always Feel Like) Somebody's Watching Me
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2011, 12:11:55 AM »
What? How can they listen to a conversation you're not having on your phone? Or do you mean they can listen to conversations you're having with someone actually in the room with you? Because if that IS what you mean, that's pretty scary. Makes me want to chuck my phone out.

From what I understand, it had to do with early bluetooth-capable phones not requiring two way authentication to pair with a bluetooth headset. I read a research paper where one guy drove to a random office building, turned on his laptop with a bluetooth receiver that had been attached to an extended-range antenna and it detected several phones that had bluetooth turned on and "discoverable".

He was able to pair up with a phone in the middle of a call that had some confidential information about that company and record it. Mind, this was back in the mid-2000s when bluetooth had just become popular. Modern phones now require two-way authentication - the user has to manually approve a pairing with the headset, and the headset has to manually approve the pairing as well. If you've got a phone made in the last 4 years or so, you have absolutely nothing to worry about. Anyway you should NOT set your phone to be discoverable through bluetooth unless you're setting up a pair for the first time. ;)

Back in the 80s/90s when the first cell phones came out, the analog signal could be easily eavesdropped using a modified CB scanner, but the analog signal standard (AMPS/TDMA) was abandoned in favor of modern standards that encrypts communications (GSM, CDMA, LTE) so that's not a concern anymore either.

Why yes, I'm in the IT field... Why do you ask? :P

Offline tednlou2

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Re: (I Always Feel Like) Somebody's Watching Me
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2011, 03:06:34 AM »
From what I understand, it had to do with early bluetooth-capable phones not requiring two way authentication to pair with a bluetooth headset. I read a research paper where one guy drove to a random office building, turned on his laptop with a bluetooth receiver that had been attached to an extended-range antenna and it detected several phones that had bluetooth turned on and "discoverable".

He was able to pair up with a phone in the middle of a call that had some confidential information about that company and record it. Mind, this was back in the mid-2000s when bluetooth had just become popular. Modern phones now require two-way authentication - the user has to manually approve a pairing with the headset, and the headset has to manually approve the pairing as well. If you've got a phone made in the last 4 years or so, you have absolutely nothing to worry about. Anyway you should NOT set your phone to be discoverable through bluetooth unless you're setting up a pair for the first time. ;)

Back in the 80s/90s when the first cell phones came out, the analog signal could be easily eavesdropped using a modified CB scanner, but the analog signal standard (AMPS/TDMA) was abandoned in favor of modern standards that encrypts communications (GSM, CDMA, LTE) so that's not a concern anymore either.

Why yes, I'm in the IT field... Why do you ask? :P

The news reports I saw had nothing to do with blue-tooth.  They were cases of people being able to turn the microphone and/or camera on your phone.  I'm not sure if this was possible on any phone or if someone got them to download a virus on a Windows phone.  I saw a few reports about this, but then nothing else.  Some experts said it was impossible while some said it was very possible.  I still don't know if the stories were accurate, or another media-hyped scare story.  But, I'm sure some tech nerd could do it.  Oh, the reports said even if you had your phone turned off, they could turn it on. 

Offline mecch

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Re: (I Always Feel Like) Somebody's Watching Me
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2011, 08:43:58 AM »
All of this non stop tracking, becoming ever more invasive, makes one wonder what the implications are for evolution of the "social mind".
I remember the shift several years ago from having to be ontime, for dates at specified places, which were made hours or even days in advance! Imagine that.  Then gradually everything got quite negotiable...

If you can find everything and everyone you want, and if everyone and everything can find you, when it wants to, I dunno what my mind is going to feel like.

Like those stories of targeted cell phone advertising because you are in the zone of a certain billboard or shop or restaurant that fits your profile.  Like that gay cruising locator.  

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline SunnyFlorida

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Re: (I Always Feel Like) Somebody's Watching Me
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2011, 10:08:26 AM »
The news reports I saw had nothing to do with blue-tooth.  They were cases of people being able to turn the microphone and/or camera on your phone.  I'm not sure if this was possible on any phone or if someone got them to download a virus on a Windows phone.  I saw a few reports about this, but then nothing else.  Some experts said it was impossible while some said it was very possible.  I still don't know if the stories were accurate, or another media-hyped scare story.  But, I'm sure some tech nerd could do it.  Oh, the reports said even if you had your phone turned off, they could turn it on. 

It is possible if people got their phones infected with a trojan, but to actually be able to turn them on? I call BS on that. Phones have to already be turned on in order for the cell tower to be aware of its existence and have the phone be remotely reachable. Some jailbroken iPhones are vulnerable to outside access because the people that jailbreak them and install OpenSSH did not change the default password (which is 'alpine', by the way!) I think the chances of that are lower these days, though.

There may be SOME truth to the news reports you saw, but in general the news media isn't a reliable source of tech and security information. That's why I go for engadget.com, tomshardware.com, etc. Every single tech news I've seen on TV were overblown and exaggerated out of proportion... like the tracking thing on the iPhone! :D

Offline sam66

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Re: (I Always Feel Like) Somebody's Watching Me
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2011, 01:14:53 PM »
What? How can they listen to a conversation you're not having on your phone? Or do you mean they can listen to conversations you're having with someone actually in the room with you? Because if that IS what you mean, that's pretty scary. Makes me want to chuck my phone out.

   Ann
         All modern moble phones can be used as microphone that will transmit any sound it picks up, even when the phone is off. And any one who has the access code for that phone can listen to what ever sound the phone picks up.
       only way to stop this is to take the battery out.

       http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11217012

  "Key to handset hacking, he said, was installing software on a device either by getting physical access to the mobile, tricking its owner into downloading a booby-trapped application or making them visit a page that inserts malware onto a device.

" Mr Coney said commercial software, known as spyware, was available that could take copies of everything on a phone, log its location and switch on any of its components. All without revealing its presence on a handset.

"They give remote access, take copies of text messages and can turn the telephone into an audio bug," he said. "
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Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: (I Always Feel Like) Somebody's Watching Me
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2011, 01:42:11 PM »
It is possible if people got their phones infected with a trojan, but to actually be able to turn them on?

There may be SOME truth to the news reports you saw, but in general the news media isn't a reliable source of tech and security information. Every single tech news I've seen on TV were overblown and exaggerated out of proportion... like the tracking thing on the iPhone! :D

I agree.  News outlets do tend to create hysteria when it comes to technology :)

Once the hacker’s software finds and connects to a vulnerable Bluetooth-enabled cell phone, it can do things like download address book information, photos, calendars, SIM card details, make long-distance phone calls using the hacked device, bug phone calls and much more.  There’s a myriad of software freely available that’s made specifically to attack cell phones via Bluetooth connections, and every time an update to the technology or certain cell phones becomes available there’s bound to be new hacking software for it.  Certain attacks have become so prevalent that they even have names these days;

“Bluesnarfing” is the term associated with downloading any and all information from a hacked device, and can even allow the hacker to send a “corruption code” to completely shut the phone down and make it unusable.  “Bluebugging” is an even scarier hack- it involves using special software to connect to a device and silently making it call another device, usually one the hacker is using, to act as a phone bug.  The hacker can then listen in on anything you and anyone around you is saying.  Beyond these attacks, hackers can use software to route long-distance calls to worldwide locations to your phone using Bluetooth, which in turn sticks you with the carrier roaming charges.  Likewise, a hacked phone can even remotely be used to make “micro-purchases,” or purchases that show up on subscriber’s monthly bills.
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____________________________

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Offline SunnyFlorida

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Re: (I Always Feel Like) Somebody's Watching Me
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2011, 03:05:02 PM »
All modern moble phones can be used as microphone that will transmit any sound it picks up, even when the phone is off.

This part, right there, doesn't make sense. The trojan would have to be RUNNING in order to transmit sounds it picks up. How could it be running if the phone is turned off?

Phones are computers. People can unwittingly install malicious third party applications on their own phones. What media makes it sound like is "WARNING! WARNING! PEOPLE ARE LISTENING IN ON YOUR CONVERSATIONS RIGHT THIS MOMENT! TAKE OUT YOUR BATTERIES AND BURY YOUR PHONES!" when in reality it's not all that common, and it requires some action on the phone owner's part to make happen.

Just like you shouldn't click on a suspicious link in an email on the computer, you shouldn't do so on a phone or install programs you don't fully trust. Common sense.

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

Offline SunnyFlorida

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Re: (I Always Feel Like) Somebody's Watching Me
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2011, 06:41:47 PM »
Oh geez, there's now a class-action lawsuit over the iPhone tracking thing! Talk about a tempest in a freakin' teapot! :/

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: (I Always Feel Like) Somebody's Watching Me
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2011, 08:12:31 PM »
Oh geez, there's now a class-action lawsuit over the iPhone tracking thing! Talk about a tempest in a freakin' teapot! :/

*Thinks that someone from Google is behind it* ~ how else would they corner the market with those Android phones?   :o
don't equate intelligence with lack of masculinity
Jim Phelps, Mission Impossible
____________________________

Seroconverted: Early 80s
Tested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. 
Last regimen:  Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky ::))
Past regimens
Fun stuff (in the past):  HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Jan 2012: 818/21%
Apr 2012: 964/22%
Jul. 2012: 890/21%
Oct. 2012: 920/23%

Still UD after all these years

 


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