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Author Topic: Obama's plan to cut the debt!  (Read 6296 times)

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Offline Hellraiser

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Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« on: April 13, 2011, 09:38:59 PM »

Offline Solo_LTSurvivor

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2011, 09:48:32 PM »
>>  I feel the need to take a break from all talking heads/pundits/24-hour cable news for the next few weeks for certain now

  • A rejection of the Ryan budget's approach to Medicare and Medicaid, which the White House believes would unfairly shift costs to seniors and the vulnerable while undermining both programs in the long term. Instead, Obama proposed reforms to reduce the growth of health care spending (beyond those in the overhaul last year) that would save $480 billion by 2023, and at least an additional trillion in the decade following
  • A general effort to "strengthen Social Security for the long haul," without slashing benefits for future generations
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Offline bocker3

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2011, 10:17:53 PM »
Is exactly the same thing I proposed when I espoused my fiscally conservative views.

Well, you better get your ass up to Iowa -- the GOP is still looking for a standard bearer....    ::)
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Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2011, 10:27:25 PM »
Well, you better get your ass up to Iowa -- the GOP is still looking for a standard bearer....    ::)

Screw you guy.  I'm not republican in any way shape or form, but I prefer not to have an amazingly large crushing debt.

Offline hope_for_a_cure

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2011, 11:00:53 PM »
Polls indicate that most individuals who are making 250K and above are willing to pay more taxes.  We also need to close the loop holes that are in place and force corporations to anti up their share too. 

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2011, 07:39:28 AM »
Well, you better get your ass up to Iowa -- the GOP is still looking for a standard bearer....    ::)

word ;D

Offline mecch

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2011, 08:06:40 AM »
Tax the rich and the corporations and get it the fuck over with.

Dems gotta grow some balls on this issue and HIRE amazing PR and hollywood types to sell this to over 50% of the American public as the solution.  I don't know how you can sell that but the last 25 years has been disastrous to the average working American and the poor.  And its galling that struggling people don't want to stick it to the rich. Galling galling galling. 

If all the lefty stars in Hollywood were worth their wealth by having creative genius, this would be done. The limousine liberal, caviar gauche, of the USA is just as responsible for this disaster.

I blame this social inequality on Oprah as much as the Koch brothers.  Why hasn't she had a SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC politics, all these years.  Why hasn't she systematically presented in laymen populist terms to  Americans a little bit about how the rich and powerful are selling them down the river.  Jezus!

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline hope_for_a_cure

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2011, 08:08:57 AM »
Tax the rich and the corporations and get it the fuck over with.

Now thats what I call 'word' !! 

Offline mecch

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2011, 08:22:17 AM »
And furthermore, if the corporations don't want to shell out, and threaten to move headquarters abroad. FUCK THEM!

The government should PUBLICALLY shame them, name every single last rich bitch on the board of these corporations as "UN American", and say GOODBYE GOOD RIDDANCE.  Call their bluff.  List their net worths, show pictures of their houses, show how they are laughing all the way to the bank and hundreds of millions in personal wealth, by NOT carrying their "moral" load of the cost of a civil society. 

Good billionaires should be held up as models.  Explained exactly what they did to give back to the society that made them wealthy.

DEMS don't want to go fully there - cause THEY go through the same revolving power doors - Wall Street, Ivy League/ThinkTank/NGO's ("justifying" "legitimizing"), Corporate Boards, Gov't, Wall Street, academic legitimising, Corporate Boards, Gov't. 

A vicious fucking greedy RAT FUCK circle selling everyone else into struggle.

This isn't Obama's responsiblity to fix. Its up to rich and powerful to get a fucking reality check themselves, or, sad to say, the entire Dem party to call them out on it. 





“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2011, 08:29:26 AM »
Hero of the day:  Sen Carl Levin. 

BUT SPARE ME PLEASE.  The SEC isn't going to do jackshit.  That was part of the problem to begin with.  I worked there -- they were all NYSE ass kissers.

Sen Levin should get togther with Oprah and spell out and sell the necessity of prosecuting greed - REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION - to the American public. 

Maybe then the Justice Department will do its job.

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2011, 08:38:07 AM »
And if in the impossible event that all corporations and rich leave the us and the us becomes one big Detroit. So be it.  Don't do anything and it will end up like Venezuela before too long.  Faded fucking glory.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2011, 08:41:18 AM »
Tax the rich and the corporations and get it the fuck over with.

Dems gotta grow some balls on this issue and HIRE amazing PR and hollywood types to sell this to over 50% of the American public as the solution.  I don't know how you can sell that but the last 25 years has been disastrous to the average working American and the poor.  And its galling that struggling people don't want to stick it to the rich. Galling galling galling. 

If all the lefty stars in Hollywood were worth their wealth by having creative genius, this would be done. The limousine liberal, caviar gauche, of the USA is just as responsible for this disaster.

I blame this social inequality on Oprah as much as the Koch brothers.  Why hasn't she had a SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC politics, all these years.  Why hasn't she systematically presented in laymen populist terms to  Americans a little bit about how the rich and powerful are selling them down the river.  Jezus!



In between interviewing Denzel and Tom Cruise she could educate the masses on trade deficits, rising healthcare costs and defense spending. Maybe have Abba on to explain to Europeans that our tax dollars shouldn't be spent defending their scrawny asses. She could get Maya Angelou to read a poem about corporate loopholes. I'm sure her ratings would soar with her upper middle class white women demographic. She could become the next MLK or she could just give everyone a car. Blaming this on Hollywood and Oprah might be just about the dumbest thing I've ever read.

Offline lipoenvy

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2011, 08:47:36 AM »
So, how does Obama propose to reduce health care spending?  Incentives to physicians to keep patients healthy and avoid accidents?  This is horse puckey.  This is the Reagan health plan: "Good health is a good thing to have."  And reducing Medicaid is easy, since Medicaid recipients don't contribute to re-election campaigns.

The U.S. healthcare system is broken and needs fixing.  We spend twice as much as other industrialized nations for outcomes that are not as good.  Cost containment will have to happen if the healthcare system is to be fixed.  So far Obama has not done anything to offend the pharmaceutical and health insurance industries, like for instance, say, insist on negotiating lower prescription drug costs for Medicare Part D.

And here's another cost-cutting measure:  How about a 90% reduction in war (oh, sorry, "defense") spending instead of these tepid cuts Obama has proposed?

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2011, 08:53:39 AM »
Hero of the day:  Sen Carl Levin. 

BUT SPARE ME PLEASE.  The SEC isn't going to do jackshit.  That was part of the problem to begin with.  I worked there -- they were all NYSE ass kissers.

Sen Levin should get togther with Oprah and spell out and sell the necessity of prosecuting greed - REPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION - to the American public. 

Maybe then the Justice Department will do its job.



Don't forget the Swiss banks chock full of dirty money Comrade. The justice department had to sue them. Swiss banks have blood on their hands. Fucking Nazi sympathizers.

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2011, 08:55:20 AM »
I blame this social inequality on Oprah as much as the Koch brothers. 

You blame American social inequity on a talk show host. I hope you are joking.

I don't understand macroeconomics, and I don't feel qualified to even give an opinion on this subject, but I don't think Hollywood celebrities are the answer. Taxing the rich sounds good, since I am not rich. Taxing corporations sound good too but I assume they would pay for those taxes by raising the price of their products, reducing employee benefits, downsizing, etc. Reduce military spending and you eliminate jobs. Cut Medicare and Medicaid funding and you penalize the nation's most needy citizens. It seems very complicated and frankly I don't understand how things like inflation, international exchange rates, national debt, gross domestic product, private industry and federal and state taxation all interact with each other.

Offline thunter34

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2011, 09:04:21 AM »
We need to just sell pot.  It could fix the deficit lickety split.  And even if it didn't, we wouldn't feel nearly so upset about it.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2011, 09:16:40 AM »
Fixing the debt isn't hard.  I did it again for laughs, just last week!
10 minutes, maybe only 5.   ;D


http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/11/13/weekinreview/deficits-graphic.html?scp=1&sq=interactive%20budget&st=cse

Just repeal ALL the Bush tax cuts and the rest is easy.
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Offline poz91

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2011, 10:38:23 AM »
Reduce military spending and you eliminate jobs.

Depends on what type of military spending you're talking about... we saw the exact opposite effect in the community I grew up in.

The more the AF spent on providing tax-free, at-cost, on-base amenities to the troops and families stationed there (movie theater, bowling alley, banks, gas stations, convenience stores, grocery store, department store, veterinarian, daycare, gyms, pools, rec centers, bars, housing, etc, etc, etc) the more the local economy and business community right outside the base gate suffered.

Interestingly, when the military began slowly eliminating the healthcare services offered on the base over the last decade or so, a growing and thriving medical park has emerged to pick up the slack. 

So some types of military spending are not only unnecessarily redundant and wasteful, but also detrimental to the folks, businesses, and communities footing the bill...

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2011, 10:59:08 AM »
That is a good point, and another example of how complex these issues are.

Offline woodshere

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2011, 11:27:59 AM »
Just repeal ALL the Bush tax cuts and the rest is easy.

As well as an overhaul of the corporate tax fiasco. Unbelievable that so many coporations pay no tax!  It's immoral that the Republicans are trying to take care of the debt and deficit on the backs of the poor and working class
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 11:29:41 AM by woodshere »
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Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2011, 12:47:25 PM »
Essentially the two camps want to cut two opposite issues.  Democrats want to cut defense spending and Republicans want to cut entitlement programs.  The good news is there is more than enough wasteful spending in both of those to go around.  If you cut both of them AND you raise taxes (corporate and wealthy citizens alike) you might start to make a dent in the debt.  Government officials however live for making people happy and denying them anything doesn't make them happy so they just keep passing the buck and increasing spending which in turn helps them to get re-elected.  Since their jobs aren't on the line as a result of the country's crazy economic tailspin which is spiraling out of control and the debt hasn't been the bigger issue than the government programs there hasn't been any movement.  Hopefully Obama can get his plan approved.

Oh and dachsund you are witty and informative as always in that you brought nothing to this conversation whatsoever.

Offline hope_for_a_cure

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2011, 01:00:43 PM »
Maybe England will take us back and we can abolish both the 'Reps' and 'Dems'!  (bad joke)

If the largest 10 corporations alone paid taxes, there would be a noticeable effect.  So much damage was done under Geo W's watch and its taking its toll on us all to this day.  Politicians have become more career minded than ever and greed is way over the top these days.  Like it or not, that is the way things are done here.  (for the record, I dont like it)

Revenue generators are just not there for the government without a total revamp of our tax laws and reductions in military spending.  I hope somebody in power has the balls to actually take that route.

Offline David_CA

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2011, 01:04:43 PM »
We need to just sell pot.  It could fix the deficit lickety split.  And even if it didn't, we wouldn't feel nearly so upset about it.

Word....though we might end up spending a bit more on junk food.
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Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2011, 01:05:41 PM »
Word....though we might end up spending a bit more on junk food.

The taxes on that would also help the american economy.  It would be an unstoppable economic engine!

Offline mecch

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2011, 01:11:58 PM »
You blame American social inequity on a talk show host. I hope you are joking.

I don't understand macroeconomics, and I don't feel qualified to even give an opinion on this subject, but I don't think Hollywood celebrities are the answer. Taxing the rich sounds good, since I am not rich. Taxing corporations sound good too but I assume they would pay for those taxes by raising the price of their products, reducing employee benefits, downsizing, etc. Reduce military spending and you eliminate jobs. Cut Medicare and Medicaid funding and you penalize the nation's most needy citizens. It seems very complicated and frankly I don't understand how things like inflation, international exchange rates, national debt, gross domestic product, private industry and federal and state taxation all interact with each other.

Gee its rhetoric. Obviously the deficit isn't Hollywood's problem.

Let me spell out my opinion.

First of all, Dach, I agree with you - there's wasteful military spending.  Maybe finally the Dems and Republicans can really agree that we are fighting wasteful wars and defending countries we don't need to defend.

My point about the Hollywood was this:  

If we can say the rich and powerful right has systematically altered taxation (and banking regulation, but that's another topic) for their own enrichment, from Reagan Bush to now.  Then in fact what I see is that the American public has been sold this economic system as acceptable.  Clinton didn't help matters one bit, sold out the working class basically.

I don't get how ANY American can EVER question the need for a certain standard of living.
There are some things that must always be guaranteed and almost all other advanced rich countries have given these costs to the government, to manage and to fund through taxation.
1) housing
2) LIVING wages
3) healthcare
4) education (through to the professional level that a country needs)
5) retirement wages
6) disability insurance
7) unemployment wages

How can we get to a point in 2011 that a rich country says the ONLY way to balance a budget is to cut the safety net and basic living standards that a RICH country is supposed to have.

And yet, at least 50% of Americans can consider this to be a rational argument.  

I suggest that the Right has sold their steal from the poor to give more to the rich schemes exceedingly well.

The left hasn't sold the counter argument completely.  And in order to sell the left bill of goods - which is the government MUST ensure a standard of living appropriate to the wealth and development of the country - it needs to do a better job - so where the fuck can it turn to.  The so called "lamestream media" - Palin has a point because it is fucking lame. Of course she thinks its lame from a different perspective.  I think its lame because the sell job on the moral imperative of a social safety SUCKS.  The systematic critic of the abuse of power and wealth - ABSENT.  

People listen to sound bites, emotional arguments, puppet statesmen. The right has this down well.  If the left continues to do a shoddy job against the right, income inequality will continue to increase, the bedrock middleclass will continue to shrink, working stiff will be nickled and dimed more and more and more.   

And yet the rich left, the powerful left - hasn't successfully sold the moral justification for UNTOUCHABLE safety net -  too many Americans still think of these as "entitlement" programs.  They shouldn't even be called THAT.  That's my point.

Nobody in this FORUM - AIDS MEDS - in the USA should be sweating health costs in the USA.  Because the USA is fucking RICH.

So if FOX can sell a load of crappy economics, immigration, trade and labour policies, and ideas about what is American culture ---  to the very people who are being sold down the river....  Then, it seems to me the left media and the rich left has NOT done a great job selling the counter argument.

Rachel Maddow gives systematic arguments but shes preaching to the converted.  We need a propaganda campaign to sell some decency and good will towards average folks, and stick it to GE, paying no taxes. What a fucking evil entitity.

You repeal the tax cuts to the rich and sell it to the people.  Thats politics.   And work on that Military Machine, too.  The US military in Europe - what the fuck? This is imperial posturing, on borrowed money.  And jobs program.  Find a better one in the "homeland" for crissakes.  

We are stuck with that word now, Homeland, thanks to Bush II, so we might as well have a public discourse and settle on what the rights are for people in the "homeland."

The French people, and the German Government,  do a lot better jobs defending their welfare states, against capitalistic forces that have run around the first world - Europe in particular - selling privatization as the solution for the first world.  Iceland, anyone?  

Working stiffs in the us pay their taxes, and a lot of them.  Rich people should pay more and corporations should pay, if they want to continue to operate in a first world context.  Yes, there are questions - such as how the middle class will fund their retirements if the corporations aren't returning dividends to mutual finds.  

But geez.  How can we be having this conversation about the wasteful so called "entitlement" programs.  I know what my grandma gets in retirement.  And how my old relatives dealt with retirement, aging and sickness. There was no fucking excess, no abuse. It seemed about right.  

Where's the decency???

« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 02:05:03 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline woodshere

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2011, 01:27:15 PM »
The good news is there is more than enough wasteful spending in both of those to go around.  

Herein lies the problem what is wasteful to one person isn't to another.  Just one example of a very popular cut among Republicans and their supporters is cutting funds for the Arts.  The budget for the annual arts endowment is a "whopping"  :) 168 million dollars.  Cutting that won't make a flippin' difference in solving the debt/budget deficit problem as a matter of fact it would only cause more problems.  The $166 billion nonprofit arts sector includes 5.7 million jobs and generates nearly $30 billion in tax revenue.  And I won't even begin to talk about the benefits to society through vibrant arts programs.  But those who bitch about wasteful spending don't take the time to learn these investments actually help the country.   Just by ordering one less F-22 fighter jet ($412 million each) We wouldn't have to touch arts funding and have money left over to secure other programs.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/05/kevin-spacey-calls-for-ar_n_845315.html
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2011, 01:55:47 PM »
Herein lies the problem what is wasteful to one person isn't to another.  Just one example of a very popular cut among Republicans and their supporters is cutting funds for the Arts.  The budget for the annual arts endowment is a "whopping"  :) 168 million dollars.  Cutting that won't make a flippin' difference in solving the debt/budget deficit problem as a matter of fact it would only cause more problems.  The $166 billion nonprofit arts sector includes 5.7 million jobs and generates nearly $30 billion in tax revenue.  And I won't even begin to talk about the benefits to society through vibrant arts programs.  But those who bitch about wasteful spending don't take the time to learn these investments actually help the country.   Just by ordering one less F-22 fighter jet ($412 million each) We wouldn't have to touch arts funding and have money left over to secure other programs.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/05/kevin-spacey-calls-for-ar_n_845315.html

However, with a debt in the trillions we should shave down any spending that isn't absolutely vital to our current survival.  To me this means unbiased cuts wherever possible in order to get that deficit down.  Defense to me is the biggest major expenditure that could be taken down considering we're fighting two wars that are in no way defending our borders.

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2011, 01:57:37 PM »
Herein lies the problem what is wasteful to one person isn't to another.  

Eliminating waste is what politicians do best.




Ba dum ching!

Offline thunter34

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2011, 02:03:46 PM »
Eliminating waste is what politicians do best.

Ba dum ching!


He's here all week, folks.   ;D

Seriously...best post yet. 
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Offline thunter34

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2011, 02:06:52 PM »
It's interesting when you consider that most anything we deem to be part of our "national identity" is a product of art.

National anthem and flag, even.  
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Offline AlanBama

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2011, 02:42:37 PM »
I wish the Dems would fight for a complete overhaul of the tax code.   I am an advocate of flat-rate taxation; I think it would solve at least 75% of our problems.....everyone would pay an equal and FAIR share, with no loopholes for the super rich or for corporations....

I think us average, ordinary people need some lobbyists to promote our own interests, like the corporations have.   It is a shame that we should have to have lobbyists to defend the citizens' own best interests, but it seems that there is no other way to get the attention of the politicians.

 >:(
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline woodshere

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2011, 03:01:22 PM »
However, with a debt in the trillions we should shave down any spending that isn't absolutely vital to our current survival.  To me this means unbiased cuts wherever possible in order to get that deficit down.  Defense to me is the biggest major expenditure that could be taken down considering we're fighting two wars that are in no way defending our borders.

So regardless of the effect on the economy we cut regardless of the outcome.  The cut, cut cut crowd always preach about cutting spending, but yet never mention what they would cut that would actually have an impact.  So what would you cut?

Cuts alone are never going to solve the problems, we have to look at the tax structure and invest!  Cut defense, raise taxes on corporations and the wealthiest Americans.  Invest in infrastructure, light rail, green fuels, etc.  Those investments create jobs, more jobs means a better economy and more income from taxes.
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline mecch

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2011, 03:38:33 PM »
I wish the Dems would fight for a complete overhaul of the tax code.   I am an advocate of flat-rate taxation; I think it would solve at least 75% of our problems.....everyone would pay an equal and FAIR share, with no loopholes for the super rich or for corporations....

I think us average, ordinary people need some lobbyists to promote our own interests, like the corporations have.   It is a shame that we should have to have lobbyists to defend the citizens' own best interests, but it seems that there is no other way to get the attention of the politicians.

 >:(

Im with you on that. At least flat-tax gets everyone paying.  Though I would take it a Roosevelt step forward and have a little bit of progressive taxation. Why should people taking home 3 grand a month have to survive on 2, while people with 300,000 go down to 200,000??

Anyway, flat tax with no exceptions, this is better than now - with the clever and rich and selfish paying nothing.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2011, 03:59:15 PM »

Oh and dachsund you are witty and informative as always in that you brought nothing to this conversation whatsoever.

Go fuck yourself hellraiser. The only thing you bring to any conversation is your over sized ego, and psuedo-intellectual bullshit. I know you think you have all the answers but you don't. You were too busy getting banged in truck stops ten years ago to remember but this country had a balanced budget and a surplus. Bush tax cuts, two unfunded wars, Medicare Part D and here we are. If you're going to bloviate at least have a bit of a grip on what you're talking about.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 04:06:06 PM by Dachshund »

Offline mecch

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2011, 04:23:09 PM »
Don't forget the Swiss banks chock full of dirty money Comrade. The justice department had to sue them. Swiss banks have blood on their hands. Fucking Nazi sympathizers.
Dach dearie, how does this pertain? I'm glad the Germans, French, Italians and Americans pushed Swiss banks on the tax shelter issue.
Bank secrecy is dead here. But only when a foreign country presses and provides names to be researched. And only those who have pushed to get these concessions with leverage.
There are a number of African rulers who have families who live in and around Geneva in great luxury. One "President" lives here permanently.  The only way this money is repatriated is when the citizens of these countries ask for investigations. So only for ex-regimes and tottering regimes.  The Swiss gov't took the unusual step of freezing Gadhaffi's acounts - but this is because of the new deals with other first world nations.  And because Gadhaffi and Switzerland have been at diplomatic war for a few years now.

The challenge is a global one.  The Swiss in fact saw the writing on the wall years ago. The Swiss banks and their bankers have expertise in tax evasion and money laundering but they no longer do this on Swiss soil in many instances.  They bankers busted in NY were doing it for Swiss banks, in NY, but using tiny dirty tax shelter states and their banks.  This is like American arms trading in my opinion.  

No rich country has uncompromised positions, dearie.  
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 04:24:42 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2011, 04:26:47 PM »
Go fuck yourself hellraiser.  Bush tax cuts, two unfunded wars, Medicare Part D and here we are. If you're going to bloviate at least have a bit of a grip on what you're talking about.

Just thought I would save that brilliant obscenity for posterity.

About the rest of the comment. Let me get this straight. So in fact we all agree the Bush tax cuts were a fucking disaster?!

This is good news, progress!
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline David Evans

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2011, 04:51:23 PM »
Daschund and Hellraiser:

Please back off the personal vitriol or check out of this thread. If things continue in this matter we'll have to lock it down.

-D

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2011, 04:52:32 PM »
Doxie and Hellraise, you've both been members of the gang here long enough to know you can't use that kind of language or unleash that attacks on anyone.

Disagree all you want to but it has to remain civil.

No more of this please unless you're bent on getting some time off.
Andy Velez

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2011, 05:29:06 PM »
 

No rich country has uncompromised positions, dearie.  

I know you have absolutely no idea where I'm coming, so I'll have to accept this as second best. Damn Americans tricking those poor innocent Swiss bankers into taking their money. ;)
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 05:34:55 PM by Dachshund »

Offline Joe K

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2011, 05:59:03 PM »
Getting America on better financial footing, would be easy, except nobody is advocating for that to happen. There are so many special interests, with mega-millions to spend, to influence legislation and most politicians are too spineless to actually take a stand, for fear of losing the next election.  If we were really serious about rebuilding America, there would be massive public works projects to put Americans back to work.  Deficit spending in a recession is not only prudent, it is necessary to get the country going again. Think Federal Highway system, Hoover Dam, TVA, etc.  Allow all the Bush tax cuts to expire on Jan 1, 13 and we are back to the tax rates under Clinton.  You remember him, the guy with the balanced budget, who left a surplus.

Reform the tax code, simplify it and reduce the corporate tax rate.  Companies can avoid taxes because our tax code allows it, not that they are doing anything illegal.  It's good business sense to minimize your costs, so let's help reduce those costs with a better tax code.  Add a value added tax that is based on consumption and use the revenue to reduce taxes on those making less than 250k a year.  Fully fund research to determine optimum medical practices, implement them into standards and reimburse/indemnify medical professionals who follow those practices.  Implement a one-payer health system.

I could go on, but none of it matters because America is just too splintered right now.  A major Republican voting block, are those voters who were educated under an inferior school system and it appears that they can be easily misled.  As Mecch said, we have crap for media, where opinion now substitutes for fact and lying is not only ignored, it is almost expected.  We have one party that will throw anyone making less than 250k under a bus and the other party couldn't even get its act together during the two years they controlled Congress.

I'll be honest, if I was 20 years younger I would be damn scared right about now.  If America continues with these unfunded wars, tax breaks, excessive military spending, while promoting the continued stratification of wages, I could eventually see class warfare.  It's not like there are not enough guns to start one.  To me, Washington seems just so disconnected about the reality in America for over a hundred million people.  The whole political system has become so bastardized and polluted by money and every year, there are fewer politicians who go to DC to do what they were elected to do... serve the people.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 06:00:41 PM by killfoile »

Offline thunter34

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2011, 06:10:26 PM »
If we were really serious about rebuilding America, there would be massive public works projects to put Americans back to work. 

But um...I have to ask:  Isn't that what we were SUPPOSED to get with the Obama stimulus package?  I mean "shovel ready projects" and all that?  That what he was saying when he made the pitch - and that is what I was in favor of. 
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline pozniceguy

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2011, 06:20:29 PM »
All rhetoric in the world  wont solve the issues at hand nor will trying to "blame" any particular person or party.  the  world of Washington Politics is  you have to give  to get.    they all play that game... the "art" of negotiation insists  you play with whatever tools you have.

The Prez  today said  he will never agree to tax cuts for the Rich AGAIN..  that's' a gauntlet on the ground for sure...he will probably have to eat that or weasel out of it somehow....
not  so long ago  a major  capitalist proposed and promoted a Flat Tax  system that would require almost everyone to pay ( he even excepted the "low income" people)   he was practically booed off the TV  and Lecture circuit.     Malcom Forbes  owner of Forbes magazine, more  Imperial Easter eggs that the Russians and a 727 plane called the Capitalist tool...    promoted  and proposed a tax system that requires more people pay taxes..

need to get back to the  needs /wants/ desires  discussion....  how much does it cost?  who pays??  rank order the answers to each proposal and see what you get...   the issues of  Morals, Fairness  and other interests  will be heavily debated   but at least the direction can be slanted toward Needs   then Wants  then Desires

Nick
remember the good times...honor the past but don't live there
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Offline Joe K

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2011, 06:34:24 PM »
But um...I have to ask:  Isn't that what we were SUPPOSED to get with the Obama stimulus package?  I mean "shovel ready projects" and all that?  That what he was saying when he made the pitch - and that is what I was in favor of. 

You may have if the stimulus package was large enough to last a couple of years, but it wasn't. And when a second stimulus was needed, everyone just fumbled, jockeying for position and Reaganomics voodoo still passes for sound economic policy.  The saddest part of this to me, is there is more than enough wealth in America to better the lives of most Americans, but our system only supports the rich and powerful.  We should try and reform the election process, everyone gets the same amount of money, limited election cycles, like here in Canada, thankfully our election cycle is six weeks.  Really.  The sad fact is only the rich and powerful can get elected to Congress and they live very different lives.  When the laws you are making only hurt the people you don't like, there is something wrong with the system.

What frustrates me the most is everyone thinks this is how it has to be and somewhere, the idea of all Americans being equal has been lost.  Our forefathers revolted to form this country.  Maybe it is time for another revolt, to move America back to our core beliefs.  But that would never sell, so it is what it is.

Offline mecch

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2011, 07:37:07 PM »
I wouldnt go near the "founding fathers" meme with a ten foot pole.
The solution should include: everyone pays their share, no exceptions. 
America is not going to turn into a socialist paradise, its division of private and public responsibilities is too old.
But for God's sake, a bit of decency so all Americans can enjoy some basic securities.
Nobody wants the US to become France or Denmark, the objective is to put back some fiscal responsibility tied to some social contract, so it (re?)takes it rightful place as one of the great places to be a citizen in this world.
When I hear Americans be jingoistic about being the greatest nation in the world I feel sad.
About as sad as when I have to explain to Europeans that there is no solid safety net in the country they so admire.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline woodshere

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2011, 11:45:27 PM »
But um...I have to ask:  Isn't that what we were SUPPOSED to get with the Obama stimulus package?  I mean "shovel ready projects" and all that?  That what he was saying when he made the pitch - and that is what I was in favor of. 

That was one time where size mattered.  It just wasn't big enough!!!
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2011, 02:31:04 AM »
Up until 1980, America had only accrued $900 Billion in debt--only, right?  Pocket change today.  Now, it is $13 Trillion.  What happened?  The largest transfer of wealth.  The top marginal tax rate under Eisenhower was 91% and I believe was still in the 70% range into the 1970's.  Then, Reagan comes into power with help from some Dems and makes more debt than all previous presidents.  You now have the richest 400 Americans having more wealth combined than 150 MILLION Americans.  How can that be?  It is the unfair tax rates and loop holes.  I believe CEOs in the 70's earned 40 times more than the average worker.  Now, it is 400 times more.  The Bush tax cuts have caused us to borrow $1 Trillion.  Republicans now want top tax rates to drop to just 25% while raping Medicare and Medicaid and other programs.

We can balance the budget again by getting rid of those tax cuts and putting Defense spending back to where it was under Clinton.  Since 2001, it has nearly doubled.  America needs to get over being an imperial power.  We don't need to still have 50 thousands troops in Germany and Japan.  We can't be the world's police--especially in wars that have nothing to do with our security.  Who paid for the bombs in Libya?  We did.  I think they were about $1 million each.  If the UN and NATO want to go in somewhere, then European countries need to cough up some money.  We pay for those wars, too, while they are able to spend their money on social programs.  And, who could blame them if we're willing to do it.  All the while, China is sitting back laughing that we buy everything from them and borrow so much from them.  They don't get involved in problems in the world that don't have anything to do with their national security. 

By the way....Isn't $10 Billion still missing in Iraq?  There is no accounting for what happened to it?  $10 Billion would help a little, but I would just like to know where it went.  We are rebulding their infrastructure while ours is falling apart.  We do need to fix Medicare and Medicaid.  I know there is a lot of fraud in those programs, but that won't do it.  Raising the age seems reasonable.  I believe Medicaid will pay for a medical taxi to drive you miles/hours if need be, no?  I'm not sure how much things like that cost.  If someone can't afford to pay a taxi on their own, then it seems cruel to deny someone in a rural area a way to get to medical treatment.  Again, I'm not sure how much things like that add up to be.       

Offline AlanBama

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2011, 12:23:07 PM »
What frustrates me the most is everyone thinks this is how it has to be and somewhere, the idea of all Americans being equal has been lost.  Our forefathers revolted to form this country.  Maybe it is time for another revolt, to move America back to our core beliefs.  But that would never sell, so it is what it is.

With all the social media and "direct connectedness" of so much of America now, it surprises me that more people aren't demanding such revolt (reform).   They seem to be more concerned with what Lindsay Lohan is up to, or who is ahead on Dancing With the Stars, than how they are going to survive over the next decade....    the "dumbing down" of America at work.
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline thunter34

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #47 on: April 15, 2011, 12:50:14 PM »
That was one time where size mattered.  It just wasn't big enough!!!

I was under the impression that not all of that original stimulus had even been spent yet.  The only sign I saw around here of that original stimulus was...well, signs - as in green road signs that said "this project paid for by the American Reinvestment and Recovery Act".  The actual project remains to be seen...all we have are signs saying that there was supposed to be one.

Don't get me wrong in my posts here...I find it absolutely abhorrent that Reps can stand there - with corportations not only getting by with no taxes but getting PAID, and with never ending tax cut requests for the wealthiest - and say, "Oh no....it's Planned Parenthood and Public TV that's the problem".

AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline mecch

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #48 on: April 15, 2011, 03:13:55 PM »
How long have those signs been up?  And with no project?  That's really pathetic.

I hear the BP payouts were spent quickly.  Doesn't seem so hard to spend fortunes.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Obama's plan to cut the debt!
« Reply #49 on: April 15, 2011, 04:25:27 PM »
Just to lighten the conversation a little bit -- I have a fully bubble-wrapped package of imported poppers that I completely forgot to mail as I carried it around in my little vintage messenger bag this afternoon.  SORRY! ;D
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

 


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