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Author Topic: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style  (Read 8204 times)

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Offline tednlou2

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HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« on: April 08, 2011, 02:10:12 AM »
A 23 year-old man goes to his former school in Rio De Janeiro, Brazil and lines students up and shoots them execution style.  11 kids are killed and at least 18 wounded.  He left a letter saying he was HIV positive and wanted to commit suicide.  In the news report below, I don't think they mention the HIV part, but NBC reported that the letter stated he was poz in their reporting on Nightly News.  I will never understand why people who want to commit suicide feel the need to take others with them.  I knew a guy who committed suicide by crashing his car into an oncoming car, killing those people.  My friends and I heard he had learned he was HIV poz as well; however, we could never confirm that.      

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/ns/nightly_news/#42484272

Modified:

This is the clip where NBC reports the part about HIV

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/ns/nightly_news/#42483019
 
« Last Edit: April 08, 2011, 02:56:51 AM by tednlou2 »

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2011, 02:49:31 AM »
Execution style is so declasse. Anyone with any taste knows that it's gangland style or nothing at all.

MtD

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2011, 10:00:43 AM »
My friends and I heard he had learned he was HIV poz as well; however, we could never confirm that.     

I bet you liked juicy gay bar gossip like that before your own diagnosis, eh Teddy?
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Joe K

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2011, 11:33:37 AM »
The last thing I want to read about in the Living forum, is about some guy who decides to go on a killing spree. Just what the hell has this to do with Living with HIV? Seriously, sometimes you need to think before you post.

Offline metekrop

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2011, 12:16:29 PM »
The last thing I want to read about in the Living forum, is about some guy who decides to go on a killing spree. Just what the hell has this to do with Living with HIV? Seriously, sometimes you need to think before you post.

The reason why the poster brings this issue here might be because he wanted to tell us the dude go on a killing spree due to the fact that he is living with HIV.  Who knows being Hiv positive might triger some people to do such an act.
Diag on Dec 8, 2000, CD 440 VL 44K, No Meds
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Aug/10 CD 460 UD, Ch 195
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Offline skeebo1969

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2011, 12:57:56 PM »



   I am sooo glad I stopped Atripla.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Joe K

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2011, 01:05:13 PM »
The reason why the poster brings this issue here might be because he wanted to tell us the dude go on a killing spree due to the fact that he is living with HIV.  Who knows being Hiv positive might triger some people to do such an act.

If we knew that he decided to kill innocents because he was poz, but we know no such thing. Instead I see another sensational story that will continue to paint pozzies as some type of deranged people, who if unsuccessful in infecting others with HIV, may just resort to mass killing. Perception matters and stories like these are horribly unfair to the millions who live with HIV daily. Fuzzy stores like these are used worldwide as proof that there is something terribly wrong with poz folks.

Offline mecch

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2011, 01:13:17 PM »


   I am sooo glad I stopped Atripla.

This seems to me both funny and thoughtful, as far as comments go.

I wasn't aware of this angle of the story. It's very disturbing. 

I think there are lots of shocks that could push someone over the edge.  But acts like this - aren't they only possible by VERY pathological people?  Such as the prostitute who killed "because of" herpes.  Its not the fear of herpes, its not having HIV.  Its sick fuck people.  The STD angle is just sensational.   
 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2011, 01:14:38 PM »
Joe is absolutely right -- and furthermore it's appalling to see a bunch of people who whine incessantly about HIV/AIDS stigma issues and then feed into that very same societal stigma themselves.  Seriously, I don't get it.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2011, 01:19:04 PM »
Joe is absolutely right -- and furthermore it's appalling to see a bunch of people who whine incessantly about HIV/AIDS stigma issues and then feed into that very same societal stigma themselves.  Seriously, I don't get it.

If I hadn't stopped taking Atripla I would probably take issue with this statement.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline metekrop

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2011, 01:31:28 PM »
If we knew that he decided to kill innocents because he was poz, but we know no such thing. Instead I see another sensational story that will continue to paint pozzies as some type of deranged people, who if unsuccessful in infecting others with HIV, may just resort to mass killing. Perception matters and stories like these are horribly unfair to the millions who live with HIV daily. Fuzzy stores like these are used worldwide as proof that there is something terribly wrong with poz folks.

I don't want to be arrogant but my thinking is that being positive lead to a deep frustration, anxiety and desperation which in turn give rise one to feel it is the end of his world.  Especially being having the problem in such a very young age can definitely bring about such a worst consequences and there might be nothing wrong with the pozzis.  So society need to be compassionate, caring and nurturing of such individuals.  I remember that I wanted to commit suicide when I was told my positivity ten years ago.  And this desperate feeling can be expressed in different ways and the one in the news can considered to be one.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2011, 01:34:12 PM by metekrop »
Diag on Dec 8, 2000, CD 440 VL 44K, No Meds
Dec/08 - Feb/09 CD< 50 & VL >500k hosp'z.
St. Atripla - July/09 CD 179, VL 197k
Oct/09 CD 300 VL UD Chol 267
Mar/10 CD 468 UD, Ch 220
Aug/10 CD 460 UD, Ch 195
Dec/10 CD 492 UD, Ch 172
Mar/11 CD 636 UD, Ch 201
Aug/11 CD 530 UD, Ch 98
Jan/12 cd 616 UD, ch 189
Jul/12 CD 640 UD, Ch ?
Dec/12 CD 669 Ud, Ch 125
May/7 CD711 Ud, Ch?
Nov/ 22 663 UD, Ch,
April 17 CD 797, UD

Offline Joe K

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2011, 01:51:11 PM »
I don't want to be arrogant but my thinking is that being positive lead to a deep frustration, anxiety and desperation which in turn give rise one to feel it is the end of his world.  Especially being having the problem in such a very young age can definitely bring about such a worst consequences and there might be nothing wrong with the pozzis.  So society need to be compassionate, caring and nurturing of such individuals.  I remember that I wanted to commit suicide when I was told my positivity ten years ago.  And this desperate feeling can be expressed in different ways and the one in the news can considered to be one.

I am not suggesting that finding out you are poz, could cause someone to consider suicide, what I am saying is this story as reported, implies that being poz is a reason to want to die and to become a mass killer as well. My frustration with reports like these, is they are incomplete and in a world with a 15 minute attention span, the facts are never known, so the implication remains HIV = DEATH SENTENCE = MASS MURDER. I imagine that no matter how badly you felt, when testing poz and while you contemplated suicide, that you ever gave serious thought to taking out your fellow human beings in the process. What this guy did has nothing to do with being poz and everything to do with his being one truly sick individual.

What saddens me most, is why I have to explain this concept to the very people who should know better.

edited to add: Even the title of the post is judgmental, why not: Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style, again what does being poz have to do with any of this?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2011, 01:55:11 PM by killfoile »

Offline mecch

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2011, 01:55:59 PM »
I don't want to be arrogant but my thinking is that being positive lead to a deep frustration, anxiety and desperation which in turn give rise one to feel it is the end of his world.  Especially being having the problem in such a very young age can definitely bring about such a worst consequences and there might be nothing wrong with the pozzis.  So society need to be compassionate, caring and nurturing of such individuals.  I remember that I wanted to commit suicide when I was told my positivity ten years ago.  And this desperate feeling can be expressed in different ways and the one in the news can considered to be one.

With all due respect. Bullocks.  
I can understand that someone might want to commit suicide.  But not murdering other people. I don't see any relation whatsoever.

Mass murderers are different than serial murderers, as well.

Here's link to an article about the mass murderer at Virginia Tech:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1612368,00.html

Mass murder, in short, is not a random act. There are things that explain it. Psychosis, for one, can never be ruled out. Russell Weston, a 41-year-old killer who went on a shooting spree in the Capitol Building in Washington in 1998, was a paranoid schizophrenic. Brain injury in an otherwise healthy person can lead to similar violence. Damage to the frontal region of the brain, which regulates what psychologists call the observing ego, or the limbic region, which controls violence, reflection and defensive behavior, can shut down internal governors and trigger all manner of unregulated behavior. "Somebody who had damage to both regions would be a bad player for sure," says forensic psychiatrist Neil Kaye, a faculty member at Jefferson Medical College in Philadelphia.

........

Narcissism is not the only part of the psychic stew that leads to mass murder. Among the additional risk factors experts look for is a history of other kinds of emotional turmoil, such as depression, substance abuse or some kind of childhood trauma. After the Columbine killings in 1999, the Federal Government commissioned a study of 37 incidents of school violence from 1974 to 2000 in an attempt to sketch some kind of profile of likely campus killers. In general, the investigators found that more than half of all attackers had documented cases of extreme depression, and 25% had had serious problems with drugs and alcohol. "People will often say that the killer was such a quiet boy," says Follingstad. "Then you talk to the family and find out he's had three previous hospitalizations and was mumbling something he was angry about for weeks."

A less well-documented percentage of mass killers have also been physically or sexually abused. Just a day after the Virginia Tech killings, Cho's graphically awful writings — playlets that deal with the molestation of young boys — began appearing on websites. The writings are not proof that he experienced similar mistreatment, but they certainly raise questions. "These things can percolate for years," says N. G. Berrill, a forensic psychologist and professor at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York City. "Quite often there is an early event where they are submitted to violence or are marginalized."

That last feeling can be the real problem. Where there's marginalization, there's a profound sense of powerlessness, and powerless people tend to hit back. More worryingly, it doesn't take grave abuses like molestation to leave people feeling so minimized. Parental or spousal indifference or dismissal — or at least the belief that it exists — can have a similar effect. If the world outside the home seems to be conspiring in the mistreatment, the sense of invalidation grows worse still. It may be true that none of us suffer a lost job, a busted romance or a failed exam easily, but to someone already highly sensitized to such setbacks, they can be intolerable. "These are people who are already angry," says Samenow, "and when things don't go the way they want them to, they personalize it. They take out their rage not on the person who hurt them last, but on the whole world."

__________________

The role of HIV in this killing would have to be put into context of his entire life and that's information that is not yet available.

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline woodshere

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2011, 01:57:05 PM »
I don't want to be arrogant but my thinking is that being positive lead to a deep frustration, anxiety and desperation which in turn give rise one to feel it is the end of his world.

As can countless number of other things, grief, financial stress, divorce, job loss...need i go on.

I agree with Joe attaching HIV to the story, which the media will be able to do without our help, only sensationalizes this tragic act and does nothing to diminish the stigma attached to being HIV+.  
« Last Edit: April 08, 2011, 02:12:44 PM by woodshere »
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline Joe K

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2011, 01:59:11 PM »
The role of HIV in this killing would have to be put into context of his entire life and that's information that is not yet available.

That is my point exactly. Or let me put it this way, would this title make sense, and if not, why?

Man with Cancer Kills 11 Students Execution Style

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2011, 02:08:05 PM »
I am with Joe on this one; this topic does not belong in 'Living With'. It is a very sad story as far as the children are concerned, but the HIV angle (or AIDS as it is being reported everywhere else --so much for "advanced HIV disease") is pure sensationalism that aims at demonizing those who are poz.

In addition, from what I read elsewhere, this man was some socially maladapted individual who avoided social interaction, was adopted by a family who are Jehovah's witnesses, and left a weird letter in which his fundamentalist religious views, and psychological issues, were evident (some bullshit about his body being handled by people who were not impure, buried in a white sheet or something, and some other messianic crapola).  The reason behind this violent act was not the virus; he was simply and deeply FUCKED UP.  

Again, I feel badly about those kiddies.  This world is just a mess.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline CaptCarl

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2011, 03:13:09 PM »
   Yet again we are demonized in the press. I find it odd that the media can be, on one hand, so sympathetic to us, yet turn around and cannibalize us in the interest of ratings. It will be interesting in a sad way, to see the fallout from this for the HIV community both in Brazil as well as elsewhere in the world.

   Yes, being diagnosed can lead to rage, frustration and other deeply negative feelings. However, this also illustrates quite vividly the need for pozzies to learn how to deal with the issue on their own, and not relying on some kind of feel good, warm and fuzzy, "it's a manageable illness"  P.R. crap that is being foisted off on the general public. An illness such as HIV being manageable is one thing, and is becoming more manageable. However, to confuse being "manageable" with being benign, that is a serious mistake. One that is made all too often.

CaptCarl
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Offline mecch

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2011, 05:01:44 PM »
Is any press going with the HIV+ people are demons angle?
Isn't it too early to know?

I thought the debate here was principally whether tednlou2 (inadvertently) posted a poorly worded thread that would feed the angle. 

(Also I miss the connection of this topic to the "HIV is manageable is Pollyanna" debate.)
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline CaptCarl

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2011, 06:33:21 PM »
 
(Also I miss the connection of this topic to the "HIV is manageable is Pollyanna" debate.)

I thought I was pretty clear actually. But I'll reiterate:

I don't want to be arrogant but my thinking is that being positive lead to a deep frustration, anxiety and desperation which in turn give rise one to feel it is the end of his world.

   The media and the pharamcuetical companies have gotten HIV treatment to the point that it is considered "manageable" As a result, people seem more likely to take risks with infection than they were when it was a death sentence. They do not seem to take the whole package into consideration, after all it won't kill them, so no big deal, right?
   
   But it still turns into a big deal anyway. The psychological, sociological, and financial issues come into play eventually. The aspects that few think of until they have to deal with them. The feelings mentioned in the above post  can and frequently are engendered by a poz diagnosis, and the person experiencing them, if not prepared, can seriously melt down. This is what I meant when I said that a manageable disease is not neccessarily a benign one. Calling HIV is disingenuous at best. Manageable deludes people into thinking that a couple pills a day, and it'll all be okay, and they are devestated when they find out otherwise.

   Is this clear enough?

CaptCarl
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Offline mecch

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2011, 06:38:17 PM »
Hmm not really.

I am saying, along with others, that hes likely a psychopath.  HIV is incidental, tangential. 

We agree with metekrop that HIV can be psychologically devastating.

But we dont buy the idea that psychological shock caused by HIV makes a person into a mass murderer.

Whatever.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2011, 06:51:07 PM »
But we dont buy the idea that psychological shock caused by HIV makes a person into a mass murderer.



I think it's just in poor taste that this one factor is being reported at all.  It could lead ignorant heads to believe that his main reason for doing this was psychological damage caused by HIV or some BS in the same line.  You know that there stupid people like that out there.

"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline CaptCarl

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2011, 06:58:59 PM »
I think it's just in poor taste that this one factor is being reported at all.  It could lead ignorant heads to believe that his main reason for doing this was psychological damage caused by HIV or some BS in the same line.  You know that there stupid people like that out there.

Yes I agree that the HIV was likely not a factor here, and I do realize that this aspect of my post was not made clear. For that I apologize The guy was likely a bomb waiting to go off, the HIV may have been the final straw. Likely we will never be told one way or the other. It is in extremely poor taste that this is the angle the media is representing, and like Joe pointed out earlier, would it ever have said, Man With Cancer Kills 11? Highly unlikely.

However, my belief that the whole "manageability" thing can lead people into a false sense of well being that is easily shattered when the reality of HIV sinks in.

CaptCarl
The only thing I can do straight is shoot..

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2011, 07:38:48 PM »

However, my belief that the whole "manageability" thing can lead people into a false sense of well being that is easily shattered when the reality of HIV sinks in.

CaptCarl

I totally agree with you.  There are/will be some head(s) out there --not only bugchasers, who suddenly realize that it is not the walk in the park they expected, but those who generally believe HIV to be a "no big deal" type of thing-- who become suicidal once they realize that this baby is here to stay; a true till death do us part type of relationship.  In this case it may have been an extreme factor that led a fuck-up individual to take his life, his other traumas, self-hate, and anger would combine with this and generate a recipe for disaster.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2011, 08:04:02 PM »
NBC screwed up. By mentioning he was HIV+ they implied a motive. From what I have read from other new sources the shooter carried a note with "a rambling, incoherent message that gave no indication of motivation".  Below is a link to the note which doesn't appear to provide a motive and it says nothing about him being HIV+.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/04/07/ap/latinamerica/main20051992.shtml

Offline hattershateme225

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2011, 10:54:10 PM »
WOW SUCH A SICK MIND THAT MAN HAD REAL TALK I REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND WAT THE KIDS AT HIS OLD SCHOOL HAD ANYTHING TO DO WIT HIM BEING POZ...WOW IN THAT CASE HE COULD OF JUST TOOK HIS LIFE NOT THE KIDS THEY ARE INCCENT.
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Offline IgotTigerBlood

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Gunman responsible for school massacre in Brazil was POZ!
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2011, 09:48:34 AM »
I was just catching up on my weekly intake of the world news just now, and stumbled upon a story I heard only vaguely about on the horrid massacre that took place in a school somewhere in Rio De Janeiro, Thursday. 11 innocent children were shoot dead like dogs, at random, many others were injured.

Officials, found a murder-suicide note from the gunman explaining his motive. Somewhere in the letter he reveals that he was HIV positive; a possible motive(at least that's what the media is leaning toward so far...)

I'm repulsed that this evil had occurred, yet worried that this incident will add another burden, or stigma attached to HIVers, everywhere. That we're all just ticking time bombs, waiting to explode, taking our faults and regrets out on the world. Just a thought.

Being that this was an isolated incident, I have a feeling if not world-wide, at least in Brasil, or the rest of South America, there will be added stigma and ignorance surrounding the poz community there.

Already, since there's not much positive publicity portraying HIVers as it is, people around the water cooler may conclude, "Oh ya.. that child-killer had HIV...That explains alot!"

Again, just a thought.....
You wish you knew...

Offline thunter34

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Re: Gunman responsible for school massacre in Brazil was POZ!
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2011, 10:06:26 AM »
We've already got one going on this:

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=37301.0


Gotta keep up, honey!    ;)

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Offline Ann

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2011, 10:18:43 AM »
We've already got one going on this:

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=37301.0


Gotta keep up, honey!    ;)

We may suffer from fatigue, but we're athletic posters.   8)

I merged the threads.
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HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline IgotTigerBlood

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Re: Gunman responsible for school massacre in Brazil was POZ!
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2011, 10:42:35 AM »
We've already got one going on this:

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=37301.0


Gotta keep up, honey!    ;)

We may suffer from fatigue, but we're athletic posters.   8)

lol, DAMN! Thanks for the heads up :-\

When I started typing, there was no mention of it anywhere in the Forums(or so I thought :-[)

Glad to contribute, regardless.

I'm always fashionably late.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2011, 10:51:16 AM by IgotTigerBlood »
You wish you knew...

Offline tednlou2

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #29 on: April 14, 2011, 12:04:13 AM »
My apologies for not getting back to my own thread sooner.  The report said a letter was found stating he was HIV positive and wanted to commit suicide.  Obviously, we don't know what other factors went into why he went mad.  He could have been poor, picked on as a child or molested at that school, and so on.  But he specifically mentioned being HIV positive.  So, this obviously means HIV had something to do with his going mad, or he wouldn't have mentioned it.  He would have said he was molested or whatever, if HIV had no impact.   

So, in that regard, it belongs in Living IMHO.  I don't know where else I could have posted it?  Mental Health perhaps, but everyone says there are tumbleweeds there.  Does anyone know whether the full letter has been released?  The media didn't learn he was HIV positive from his friends or family and used that information to paint a picture HIV caused it.  And, why would we be afraid to hear HIV caused in full or in part him to go mad?  I think it would bring more focus about how we need more mental health screenings.  From the news report, he stated he was poz and wanted to commit suicide.  Perhaps he listed 30 awful things that drove him mad and mentioned HIV as a passing thought.  We'll see maybe.  By the way, the first news link made no mention of HIV.   

Offline mecch

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #30 on: April 14, 2011, 07:19:37 AM »
  And, why would we be afraid to hear HIV caused in full or in part him to go mad?  I think it would bring more focus about how we need more mental health screenings.  From the news report, he stated he was poz and wanted to commit suicide.  Perhaps he listed 30 awful things that drove him mad and mentioned HIV as a passing thought.  We'll see maybe.  By the way, the first news link made no mention of HIV.   

My own opinion is that we suggested to you that the title of your thread invites misunderstanding and stigma. Remember this forum comes up regularly in google searches!!  We didn't say you meant it, but maybe were a bit careless in wording.

Speaking for myself, I do not want to hear a mass killing explained as resulting from HIV.  If, finally, that is the case in THIS crime - well, we don't know that yet, do we? 

Finally - once someone enters the Health Care system in so many countries, there IS attention to mental health.

You are supposing a failing of Brazilian health services and quite a number of us are proposing a sick pathological individual who is also HIV+-  Very very rare instance. 

With NO information on the support network available to this man, individually, and HIV+ Brazilians as whole, I think its easy and lazy reasoning to take the "HIV DROVE HIM TO IT" theory seriously - and this is what you are still doing...

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2011, 07:54:20 AM »
Remember Major Hasan and the Fort Hood spree?
There was widespread media rumour that he was gay and HIV+ cause combivir was found in his apartment.
 That was 2009

OK I just googled and in 2010 and 2011 this angle has been completely dropped and there is NO mention of HIV in the wiki article, either, by the way.  

So what happened? The media dropped the story?

Hasan finally was straight, and on PEP???

Suggestions:

1) maybe the media is a little LESS obsessed with the "HIV Madmen" meme, than we are worried that they are obsessed.

2) clearly HIV is a free floating anxiety in the world, and it lands on crimes and horrors difficult to process - "oh how horrible" "what drove him to it"  and then mouth the magic words "gay" or "hiv" and voila you have a cheap explanation at the beginning of a story when there are no real ones available.

HIV+ people are the boogymen.  

So Ted, you really want to stick to this theory???

I think pathological criminals are a rare, human fact. 
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 07:58:34 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline thunter34

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2011, 08:24:27 AM »
I don't know where else I could have posted it?  Mental Health perhaps, but everyone says there are tumbleweeds there. 

And if I may step on a stump for just a moment, it's time for that tumbleweeds situation to stop.

And it WOULD stop if people would commit to that forum and to their own mental health issues.  I made a thread (the "reclusive" one) in that forum just awhile back for that very reason.  It had occured to me that I could place it either there or LW, but I chose there...and it has gotten a fair amount of response.  Miss Phillicia has stumped repeatedly about mental health issues amongst poz people - and is completely on target to have done so.
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Offline Joe K

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2011, 10:45:19 AM »
My apologies for not getting back to my own thread sooner.  The report said a letter was found stating he was HIV positive and wanted to commit suicide.  Obviously, we don't know what other factors went into why he went mad.  He could have been poor, picked on as a child or molested at that school, and so on.  But he specifically mentioned being HIV positive.  So, this obviously means HIV had something to do with his going mad, or he wouldn't have mentioned it.  He would have said he was molested or whatever, if HIV had no impact.   

So, in that regard, it belongs in Living IMHO.  I don't know where else I could have posted it?  Mental Health perhaps, but everyone says there are tumbleweeds there.  Does anyone know whether the full letter has been released?  The media didn't learn he was HIV positive from his friends or family and used that information to paint a picture HIV caused it.  And, why would we be afraid to hear HIV caused in full or in part him to go mad?  I think it would bring more focus about how we need more mental health screenings.  From the news report, he stated he was poz and wanted to commit suicide.  Perhaps he listed 30 awful things that drove him mad and mentioned HIV as a passing thought.  We'll see maybe.  By the way, the first news link made no mention of HIV.   

Since the facts were not known when you posted this, it should have gone in either Mental Health or Off Topic.  However, what bothered me is how you titled the thread, when no such facts were known.  I would hope you could see how your assumptions, improperly influenced your view of this story and you stated fuzzy reporting as fact, when that was not the case.  As I have said before, perception matters and you presented this story as if his being poz was the primary reason for his killing spree, when you knew no such thing.

I find it even stranger that you continue to suggest that HIV caused him to kill, when we still know no such thing.  That is the reason that this thread did not belong in Living, or anywhere for that matter, given the title you chose.  You are promoting stigma, against pozzies, when you insist that being poz makes people commit mass murder.  While the two may be somewhat connected, that was not the case in this story.  Your link suggested he was poz and wanted to commit suicide, not mass murder.  Your title however, betrayed what you believed and that is not a sound basis to post such a story.

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2011, 01:13:11 PM »
Since the facts were not known when you posted this, it should have gone in either Mental Health or Off Topic.  However, what bothered me is how you titled the thread, when no such facts were known.

The title is accurate although it is misleading as his status had nothing to do with his depraved nature.

Offline Joe K

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2011, 03:18:04 PM »
The title is accurate although it is misleading as his status had nothing to do with his depraved nature.

I disagree. The title indicates a medical status, that if it were not HIV, would not have been mentioned.  As I said earlier, would you ever see this titled as Man with Cancer ...?  That's the problem with the title, it adds the stigma of being poz, because it suggests that being poz, makes you a mass murderer.  Sometimes words really matter and his status had nothing to do with his being a mass murderer, so why was it mentioned? That's my issue with the title, it implies that HIV was a causation of his mass murder, when no such evidence is ever presented, even after the fact.

This is how you fight stigma, by being honest in observations of others, without suggesting anything about them, that can cast them in a negative light.  When this was posted, his status was unsure and nothing was said that his being poz contributed to his decision to commit mass murder.  I hope you can understand why this matters.  We get enough bad press without adding to it, by posting such messages.  If we will not fight stigma on our own forum, how can we expect anyone else to do it?
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 03:24:33 PM by killfoile »

Offline tednlou2

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2011, 11:36:18 PM »
In the 2nd link I provided, Ann Curry reported "police said he left a letter stating he was HIV positive and wanted to commit suicide."  Now, I realize the media often get facts wrong--especially as a story breaks.  But, NBC has not made a retraction.  If their reporting was correct, then I don't see how one could ignore that he specifically mentioned having HIV and wanted to commit suicide.  Again, if their reporting was correct, then the killer obviously mentioned having HIV for a reason.  It doesn't necessarily mean it caused his madness, but I don't believe the media could have not reported what the police told them.   

I have contacts at NBC News.  I will email them and ask whether they now believe they reported that in error or if they stand by it.  I am curious why the first NBC News link made no mention to HIV (which I believe was a web-only report, while NBC Nightly News reported the part about HIV in the letter.   

Offline woodshere

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2011, 11:57:32 PM »
In the 2nd link I provided, Ann Curry reported "police said he left a letter stating he was HIV positive and wanted to commit suicide."  Now, I realize the media often get facts wrong--especially as a story breaks.  But, NBC has not made a retraction.  If their reporting was correct, then I don't see how one could ignore that he specifically mentioned having HIV and wanted to commit suicide.  Again, if their reporting was correct, then the killer obviously mentioned having HIV for a reason.  It doesn't necessarily mean it caused his madness, but I don't believe the media could have not reported what the police told them.   

I have contacts at NBC News.  I will email them and ask whether they now believe they reported that in error or if they stand by it.  I am curious why the first NBC News link made no mention to HIV (which I believe was a web-only report, while NBC Nightly News reported the part about HIV in the letter.   

What fucking difference does his HIV status make???  This is not just about a suicide it's about mass murder.  I don't understand why you are so hung up about the fact if the shooter was HIV+ or not.  He was sick and I am not talking the "sick" that people whisper about others behind their backs.
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline tednlou2

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2011, 12:07:37 AM »
What fucking difference does his HIV status make???  This is not just about a suicide it's about mass murder.  I don't understand why you are so hung up about the fact if the shooter was HIV+ or not.  He was sick and I am not talking the "sick" that people whisper about others behind their backs.

Well, a thread like this is good to debate just want you and others are saying.  Was it good journalism to report the Jet Blue guy was poz and was taking care of his mother with cancer?  How did they learn that information?  Was it from the flight attendant himself or his family or friends?  Did knowing he was poz and taking care of a mother with cancer answer any questions why he did what he did, or add anything to the story?  Did it make him a more sympathetic figure?  Was it fair to report it, if the flight attendant didn't tell them that himself? 

I stand by the posting.  NBC is still considered a reputable news agency.  If their reporting was correct that police said he left a letter stating his was poz and wanted to commit suicide, then I don't see how they could not report that.  Maybe I should have titled the thread, "Man Kills 11 Students And Police Are Reporting He Left A Letter Stating He Was HIV POZ And Wanted To Commite Suicide, According To NBC News."

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #40 on: April 15, 2011, 12:13:25 AM »


   Boy Teddy, I always thought your little Timmy from Lassie charm would get you through any storm.  I would think if this was caused by him having HIV he would at least infect them first, don't you agree? ;)
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline mecch

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2011, 05:35:46 AM »
Ted you are digging in your heels but not responding to the 2 questions posed to you.

First of all NBC probably did NOT lead with a sentence such as "An HIV+ man has killed 11 Students in Brazil, today...."

You seem to be saying in post after post that his being HIV+ might be a valid explanation for his madness.   YES WE GET THAT HE WROTE IT IN THE NOTE!  We understand that the note can be reported by the news.  Duh.  1) We refuse the CONCLUSION that HIV creates mass-murderers.  And 2) we regret the POOR WORD CHOICE that might lead to people coming to this conclusion.  

So, we are having this discussion with you because we think your THREAD title is poor word choice.  You haven't responded to that.  And then, you seem to agreeing with the idea that HIV creates mass-murderers.   (DUH, we get that he wrote he was HIV+ in the note.....)  See?  what he wrote in the note does not change our opinion.   Berkowitz said a possessed evil dog convinced him to kill.  

Finally -------------
The comparison to Steven Slater isn't the greatest because Steven Slater committed a minor offense which was also stunningly interesting to the public because it was about the stress of dealing daily with public incivility.  Thus, it was a "human interest story".   Brazil is a not a "human interest story" its a mass killing and a great tragedy.  Ted, you do see the difference??

The HIV angle to the Jet Blue steward came afterwards.  A lot of HIV+ people took offense to a NY tabloid running that story.  The NY tabloid subsequently dropped that angle of the story...

Poz columnist summarized this well:

http://blogs.poz.com/oriol/archives/2010/08/hiv_and_the_jetblue.html

I believe there may be a reason Slater's HIV status is relevant, but more on that in a moment. As it stands so far in my telling of the story, the details don't seem to warrant disclosure. And such seems to be the conclusion of the New York Daily News.

"Steven Slater told police he's HIV positive after his arrest for his JetBlue tantrum at JFK: sources" was the original Daily News headline, but "Steven Slater bail set at $2,500, attorney tells judge flight attendant's rant was sane thing to do" is the current headline and there is no mention of HIV in the current version of the article.

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/08/10/2010-08-10_steven_slater_bail_set_at_2500_attorney_tells_judge_flight_attendants_rant_was_s.html
___________
In other words, Slater didn't refer to HIV as the reason. And the newspapers reported the fact he was HIV+ and his disclosure of such, but even they didn't say outright it was the reason he cracked.


Why don't you just eat a little crow and change your thread title?  Throw us a bone.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 05:41:55 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2011, 05:40:10 AM »
Maybe I should have titled the thread, "Man Kills 11 Students And Police Are Reporting He Left A Letter Stating He Was HIV POZ And Wanted To Commite Suicide, According To NBC News."

Yes, take half of that title and its seems ok to me!

"Man Kills 11 Students And Police Are Reporting He Left A Letter Stating He Was HIV POZ"
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline BJS2011

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2011, 07:06:33 AM »
The last thing I want to read about in the Living forum, is about some guy who decides to go on a killing spree. Just what the hell has this to do with Living with HIV? Seriously, sometimes you need to think before you post.



I couldn't agree with you more Killfoile. I found this very disturbing and don't come to this site to read this crap. And yes lets think before posting please!!

Offline Ann

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2011, 07:09:19 AM »
Ted, I have to agree with Joe and some of the others. What this man did has nothing to do with his hiv status. He's a psychopath and would have been with or without hiv.

I've moved it to Off Topic. I'm also on the verge of locking this thread - just because it's so distasteful.

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2011, 07:28:59 AM »
It's all so The Living End-ish.  Perhaps Young Theodore was attempting to make a thread about the cinematic poseur qualities of Gregg Akari? ::)
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2011, 11:53:27 AM »
It's all so The Living End-ish.  Perhaps Young Theodore was attempting to make a thread about the cinematic poseur qualities of Gregg Akari? ::)

It's Araki and god I hope not, worst film maker ever.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #47 on: April 15, 2011, 03:39:13 PM »
It's Araki and god I hope not, worst film maker ever.

You, obviously, have never suffered through the works of Uwe Boll.

MtD

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #48 on: April 16, 2011, 02:31:21 AM »
You, obviously, have never suffered through the works of Uwe Boll.

MtD

Looking through his filmography I can honestly say I've never seen any of his films.

Offline LM

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #49 on: April 27, 2011, 03:25:56 PM »
I stumbled upon this topic and just wanted to clarify that he didn't have HIV, someone stupid started this rumor, but in all of the killer's videos and letters, there was no mention to HIV.

Offline mecch

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #50 on: April 27, 2011, 03:27:17 PM »
Source, please?
Also, welcome. Are you HIV+???
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline LM

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #51 on: April 27, 2011, 04:44:49 PM »
Well, I know mainly from watching and reading news about it, but you can find information (in Portuguese) here: http://cadaminuto.com.br/noticia/2011/04/07/carta-deixada-por-atirador-em-escola-do-rj-nao-menciona-infeccao-por-hiv

Google translator should help, but anyway, it basically says that a government official (quite an irresponsible one) "had heard from someone" at the school that he might have had HIV, so the journalists who printed the story "misunderstood him". Indeed, there was no mention of HIV in the letters and videos left by the killer, he just talks about religious things, blaming the people who bullied him before. Not only that, it seems that he was even a virgin. Psychiatrists analyzing the case believe he was delusional due to schizophrenia.

And yes, I'm HIV+, just diagnosed, actually. Still trying to face the wave, but reading the info here has helped a bit.

Offline mecch

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Re: HIV Poz Man Kills 11 Students Execution Style
« Reply #52 on: April 27, 2011, 04:46:15 PM »
Wow that's incredible!  Thanks for posting and welcome to the forums.  Post something in I Just Tested Poz and everyone will say hello!
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

 


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