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Author Topic: undetectable???  (Read 4807 times)

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Offline PozJeepGuy

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undetectable???
« on: March 23, 2011, 01:15:50 PM »
So I have been thinking after my last doctor visit.  I guess I had it in my head that being undetectable is like the virus is dormant in my body.  Before I go any future I know my numbers are great and that I am healthy, but I just learned my testosterone levels have fallen which explains just being tired and the sex drive just gone lately.  I didn't think or process that the pills and the whole undetectable thing just means the virus has been slowed down.  Once again I haven't processed the idea completely that the virus is still going to town and making it way threw me.  It somewhat scares me that if 8 month es into this I am starting to feel tired and just not my normal self what is this going to be like 2,10,15 years down the road.  How do you guys process this information.  How do you not let it make you depressed.  Just looking for some insight from you guys on some coping mechanisms.  Thanks in advance.
Jacob Perry

I refuse to wear my HIV as a badge of shame any longer.

Offline buginme2

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2011, 02:28:01 PM »
Over the past few months I have read that HIV can lead to low testosterone, fatigue, osteoperosis, heart disease, increase risk of stroke, cancer (most notably lymphoma and anal cancer although I'm sure more than those two).  And that is with treatment, thats not mentioning all the crap if your not on treatment or if treatment fails.

It gets me down.  But its better than going without treatment and getting an OI.

The virus might not be actively replicating but it is doing damage or has done damage.  It sucks.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2011, 02:32:35 PM »


 Low testosterone is no joke.  Once you get that rectified. and your energy levels come back it will do wonders for your mood, thus helping you have a more positive outlook on the future.  But even with that, I do know what you mean and for myself, after close to 6 years now, HIV has become easier to deal with having.   I say this in comparison of where you are right now, I was once there and to be honest it's a time thing-- experience really is everything in this deal.

 I've seen you around the forums, and I'm aware you're new to this.  I would like to tell you that you seem to be handling this very well, and are much further along than many newly diagnosed were at this stage.  Personally, I think you'll be fine in due time.
 
 
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline DanMo

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  • Finally undetectable! ;D
Re: undetectable???
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2011, 02:35:05 PM »
I've been worried about medication causing low testosterone levels and what that can do to your mood.

@skeebo: So what you are saying is that eventually the levels will start to normalize after some time?

Dan
I tried to drown my sorrows, but the bastards learned how to swim, and now I am overwhelmed by this decent and good feeling. Frida Kahlo

11 Feb 2011 - Preliminary positive
07 Mar 11 - Inconclusive WB
14 Mar 11 - Diagnosed positive
05 Apr 11 - 355 (21%) / VL: 186,054
27 Apr 11 - 390 (20%) / VL: 285,095
06 Jun 11 - 298 (19%) / VL:  78,380
01 Aug 11 - > STARTED ATRIPLA <
30 Aug 11 - 699 (31%) / VL: 1,938
03 Nov 11 -                / VL: 645
27 Dec 11 - 559 (35%) / VL: 1,189
11 Jan 12 -                 / VL: <20
09 Apr 12 - 686 (40%) / VL: UD
11 Jul 12 - 793 (37%) / VL: 25

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2011, 02:45:49 PM »
@skeebo: So what you are saying is that eventually the levels will start to normalize after some time?

Dan

No, I was mainly referring to his question regarding coping mechanisms.  I guess I really didn't help much.  The testosterone issue might need to be treated medically, and would be my focus right now if it were my issue.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline newt

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2011, 05:10:51 PM »
The virus is one thing, and yes if it's under 50 copies in your blood it's asleep.

The rest of your body is another, and yes me, "undetectable", still get tired on meds.

 -matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline ppp333

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2011, 07:52:44 PM »
I still don't know what undetectable means?  I know that the test can't pick up the virus and  it's the best you can get but what is happening in my body now that it's "sleeping". And when virus wakes up occasionally what does it do if medicines are working.  How do we eliminate it if and when they die? Do they infect cd4 cells and just can't replicate anymore?  I just still can't comprehend what stoppin viral replication means all together and why wouldn't everyone get on meds so that u prevent larger reservoirs?
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 10:02:26 PM by ppp333 »

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2011, 08:03:43 PM »
I've been worried about medication causing low testosterone levels and what that can do to your mood.

@skeebo: So what you are saying is that eventually the levels will start to normalize after some time?

Dan

It doesn't happen to everyone, far from it -- why worry needlessly about all of these "ifs" before they happen?
"Ive slept with enough men to know that Im not gay"

Offline drewm

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  • I have a sling and a dungeon :-P
Diagnosed in  May of 2010 with teh AIDS.

PCP Pneumonia . CD4 8 . VL 500,000

ATRIPLA - VALTREX -  FLUOXETINE - FENOFIBRATE


Numbers consistent since 12/2010 - VL has remained undetectable and CD4 is anywhere from 275-325

Offline DanMo

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  • Finally undetectable! ;D
Re: undetectable???
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2011, 08:16:59 PM »
It doesn't happen to everyone, far from it -- why worry needlessly about all of these "ifs" before they happen?

That's the point: I worry needlessly.

I guess it stems from a need to always be prepared. I'm not saying that I'm pulling my hair out or anything... just want to be aware of things.

Does that make sense?

Dan
I tried to drown my sorrows, but the bastards learned how to swim, and now I am overwhelmed by this decent and good feeling. Frida Kahlo

11 Feb 2011 - Preliminary positive
07 Mar 11 - Inconclusive WB
14 Mar 11 - Diagnosed positive
05 Apr 11 - 355 (21%) / VL: 186,054
27 Apr 11 - 390 (20%) / VL: 285,095
06 Jun 11 - 298 (19%) / VL:  78,380
01 Aug 11 - > STARTED ATRIPLA <
30 Aug 11 - 699 (31%) / VL: 1,938
03 Nov 11 -                / VL: 645
27 Dec 11 - 559 (35%) / VL: 1,189
11 Jan 12 -                 / VL: <20
09 Apr 12 - 686 (40%) / VL: UD
11 Jul 12 - 793 (37%) / VL: 25

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2011, 08:59:04 PM »
That's the point: I worry needlessly.

I guess it stems from a need to always be prepared. I'm not saying that I'm pulling my hair out or anything... just want to be aware of things.

Does that make sense?

Dan

I think it's good to be aware of things, yes -- I just WORRY that you'll cross over that thin line from awareness to full throttled panic attacks.  Didn't you say in another thread that your worry causes you insomnia?
"Ive slept with enough men to know that Im not gay"

Offline denb45

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  • "1987 Classic Old School POZ+"
Re: undetectable???
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2011, 08:59:13 PM »
That's the point: I worry needlessly.

I guess it stems from a need to always be prepared. I'm not saying that I'm pulling my hair out or anything... just want to be aware of things.

Does that make sense?

Dan

Then STOP worrying needlessly, it's not healthy  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline DanMo

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  • Finally undetectable! ;D
Re: undetectable???
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2011, 09:46:34 PM »
I do need to work on not worrying about all the "what-ifs". BUT I'm getting better at it! It's only been a week so cut me some slack!  ;)

PozJeepGuy, I've only been dealing with this for a week now, so those 8 months of yours seem like a lifetime to me! We just gotta take it one day at a time, and get as much emotional support as we can so we don't get all depressed.

Dan
I tried to drown my sorrows, but the bastards learned how to swim, and now I am overwhelmed by this decent and good feeling. Frida Kahlo

11 Feb 2011 - Preliminary positive
07 Mar 11 - Inconclusive WB
14 Mar 11 - Diagnosed positive
05 Apr 11 - 355 (21%) / VL: 186,054
27 Apr 11 - 390 (20%) / VL: 285,095
06 Jun 11 - 298 (19%) / VL:  78,380
01 Aug 11 - > STARTED ATRIPLA <
30 Aug 11 - 699 (31%) / VL: 1,938
03 Nov 11 -                / VL: 645
27 Dec 11 - 559 (35%) / VL: 1,189
11 Jan 12 -                 / VL: <20
09 Apr 12 - 686 (40%) / VL: UD
11 Jul 12 - 793 (37%) / VL: 25

Offline hattershateme225

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  • Posts: 54
Re: undetectable???
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2011, 10:08:13 PM »
I am confused because at times I get tired and then at times I can't sleep and that is all I am saying to that....And yes I am undetectable too
I AM WHO I AM LIKE ME LOVE ME HATE ME I DNT GIVE A CARE!!!!

Offline aztecan

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  • 29 years positive, 57 years a pain in the butt
Re: undetectable???
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2011, 01:47:15 AM »
How do people cope?

Well, if your testosterone is low, get it treated.

Mine never has been. (Good Slavic blood, you know!  ;) )

As Newt said, even being in good health, with undetectable viral loads, I still get fatigued.

Try to establish regular sleep patterns, get regular exercise and moderate your diet.

Those things help to some degree.

But, sometimes, we just have to muddle through.

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline PozJeepGuy

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2011, 02:33:13 AM »
I'm not panicing or anything. Just since I tested positive I have been dealing with just excepting this, as I'm sure everyone has.  I think I'm just hitting a different stage where I'm realizing that this is some what more intense on my body than I first thought.  Its just a hard pill to swallow that is "the new normal".  I thought I was some what aware of how HIV worked but learning I didn't know shit.   I always thought it only effect your CD4 cell and wasn't aware that this really gets into every aspect of our bodies.  That it weaves it self into our DNA.  I know I need to read more and learn more but one can only asporb so much at a time.  I read your guys post and my preception is there is alot of you guys who have come to terms with all this.  I'm taking it will all fall together with time.   
Jacob Perry

I refuse to wear my HIV as a badge of shame any longer.

Offline denb45

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  • "1987 Classic Old School POZ+"
Re: undetectable???
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2011, 09:54:09 AM »
PozJeepGuy, you will, there are a few of us around here who has been HIV+ and have had AIDS, been on Meds for more than 20+ yrs. ( I'm one of them) and were still going strong, very alive and well, thanks to us, you'll never have to endure what we all had to, so, relax, we've already paved the way, so to speak, it can be a lot to process all @ once , and you could live to be 80 to100 yrs old, if you take care of yourself, it is possible ;)
« Last Edit: March 24, 2011, 09:56:21 AM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline TakingAChance

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2011, 10:25:57 AM »
I'm not panicing or anything. Just since I tested positive I have been dealing with just excepting this, as I'm sure everyone has.  I think I'm just hitting a different stage where I'm realizing that this is some what more intense on my body than I first thought.  Its just a hard pill to swallow that is "the new normal".  I thought I was some what aware of how HIV worked but learning I didn't know shit.   I always thought it only effect your CD4 cell and wasn't aware that this really gets into every aspect of our bodies.  That it weaves it self into our DNA.  I know I need to read more and learn more but one can only asporb so much at a time.  I read your guys post and my preception is there is alot of you guys who have come to terms with all this.  I'm taking it will all fall together with time.   

 I too was amazed at how little I knew about HIV until I became positive. I spent the last 25 yrs. volunteering and taking care of people, which I thought made me an expert. I thought I knew exactly How Not to get it. Here I am. I found out there was a Lot I didn't know as an educated, worldly, gay man who thought he did. I have read everything I could to educate myself further. That's where I found out How much I don't know. I wish this shit was on those Gay Web sites when you join them. WARNING: Please read these next three pages concerning HIV... before you are allowed access to our site." It's not just about wearing a condom, nor taking a pill for the rest of your life. It's not easy to get..but it's not easy to live with after you get it too. The fact that it effects everyone differently makes it hard to compare notes some times? I was shocked when I discovered that," Yes Virginia,"  it goes everywhere and get's in every part of your Body and DNA. Yes, to be undetectable is the key to putting it asleep I hear, but that does not mean you are cured or negative again. This I have run into out there. Guy's going back to the profile's and saying negative. Staying vigilant with the latest new's I think, is empowering oneself. I can get caught up in too much information and over load. I usually take a break from here and digest it all. I guess, like most of Us, I come here for Hope and Solidarity, Information and Support.
Fasten Your Seat Belts...It's going to be a Bumpy Ride!

Offline Theyer

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  • Current ambition. Walk the Dog .
Re: undetectable???
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2011, 04:30:52 PM »
Weicome

One off the things AIDS has taught me is that I am not in control off everything, sadly it seems to have to teach me this regularly because when I am freaking out it is usually over something that I cannot control. My distress rises as I frantically try to get control, it decreases when I have identified what to do  next plus accept that I cannot control everything.

The day to day experience off the above is often messy. I  use peer support, one to one counselling, this site , drugs. and am lucky{?} to have known many off the Dr's nurses for a long time.

I also remind myself that medical science and HIV/AIDS people are still finding out about AIDS and although I have AIDS that does mean I have to Know everything about it. That thought process can also be a messy experience.

Take care
theyer

"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ."  Tony Benn

Offline surf18

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2011, 06:47:44 PM »
yep good post taking a chance.i too didnt know shit about this and i should have. but again i thought i did.
and yes if i knew what it was like to have this and always figured it would suck, but anyways i d never let a dick in me without a rubber.never.

Offline woodshere

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  • ain't no shame in my game
Re: undetectable???
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2011, 07:05:16 PM »
Come on guys, I find it hard to believe that there are many of us here that didn't know that having a shag without a condom or sharing iv needles were the primary ways of infection...that's AIDS/HIV 101.  The stuff that comes after diagnosis is new for sure, but not knowing the basics hmmmm
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline denb45

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  • "1987 Classic Old School POZ+"
Re: undetectable???
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2011, 07:38:50 PM »
Come on guys, I find it hard to believe that there are many of us here that didn't know that having a shag without a condom or sharing iv needles were the primary ways of infection...that's AIDS/HIV 101.  The stuff that comes after diagnosis is new for sure, but not knowing the basics hmmmm

Yeah, I mean, I knew that 26 yrs ago when I wanted to get high w/ a warm gun, so I took the risk anyway 8)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline tednlou2

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2011, 01:57:25 AM »
Come on guys, I find it hard to believe that there are many of us here that didn't know that having a shag without a condom or sharing iv needles were the primary ways of infection...that's AIDS/HIV 101.  The stuff that comes after diagnosis is new for sure, but not knowing the basics hmmmm

True dat.  I think many of us were stupid about HIV in other ways.  For example, I use to think that it took a person years after infection before they could infect someone else, when it was the complete opposite and we're more infectious soon after infection usually.  I'm not sure where I got that idea.  I'm sure friends said it, so I believed it.  I basically thought someone would look like they have AIDS before they could infect someone.  Mind you, this was when I was in my late teens and early 20's.  I think many still believe this.  If you're heavier, they think you couldn't have HIV.  If you're a very skinny gay guy, then you must have teh AIDS. 

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2011, 02:01:16 AM »
True dat.  I think many of us were stupid about HIV in other ways.  For example, I use to think that it took a person years after infection before they could infect someone else, when it was the complete opposite and we're more infectious soon after infection usually.  I'm not sure where I got that idea.  I'm sure friends said it, so I believed it.  I basically thought someone would look like they have AIDS before they could infect someone.  Mind you, this was when I was in my late teens and early 20's.  I think many still believe this.  If you're heavier, they think you couldn't have HIV.  If you're a very skinny gay guy, then you must have teh AIDS. 

Before learning all that I have I thought the process was Infection, AIDS, Meds to recover, resistance, Death.  With no deviation from that path.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2011, 10:28:53 AM »
Jesus, I was infected at the same age as you except almost 20 years ago and I knew folks didn't go straight from infection to AIDS.  Come on girl, seriously? 
"Ive slept with enough men to know that Im not gay"

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2011, 10:54:42 AM »
Jesus, I was infected at the same age as you except almost 20 years ago and I knew folks didn't go straight from infection to AIDS.  Come on girl, seriously? 

Look over at the thread about the complete lack of information about AIDS in Mississippi and maybe you'll understand more.  The only person who was talking about HIV when I was a kid was Pedro Zamora on The Real World and he died shortly after I even knew who he was.  I have a pretty similar story about the lack of information about being gay.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2011, 11:23:39 AM »
Look over at the thread about the complete lack of information about AIDS in Mississippi and maybe you'll understand more.  The only person who was talking about HIV when I was a kid was Pedro Zamora on The Real World and he died shortly after I even knew who he was.  I have a pretty similar story about the lack of information about being gay.

Didn't you grow up with access to the internet, at least from the time you became sexually active?
"Ive slept with enough men to know that Im not gay"

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2011, 11:45:50 AM »
Didn't you grow up with access to the internet, at least from the time you became sexually active?

There might be a good reason for this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7GyLr7Cz2g
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline denb45

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2011, 11:53:19 AM »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline PozJeepGuy

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2011, 08:12:13 PM »
its amazing how quickly one can feel comfortable here.  When I said I thought I knew more than I realized I meant what logic's of HIV.  From one of the other posts some one said your more infectious when you first become positive.  How long does that last, do you mean just at first when you seroconvert or is that like the first year of infection??  and yes I truly do know what those have gone threw before me.  I have had friends positvie for 20 plus years and they are in great shape.  I pray to be that good at their age.  I realized I never really asked them questions.  What are your pills like, how do you really feel.  The process of excepting all this is actually fascinating, or at least for me.  8 month es ago I was just living a care free life and always, always on the go.  In the last 8 month es I have stopped everything besides work.  Over the past few month es I have learned to be at peace with just sitting still.  I have asked myself what do I really want out of life, this process has and is making me really just stop cope,think, and grow in ways I never would have thought.  I never would have heard the stories I have here and see the kindness of strangers who really understand how you feel. 
Just everynow and then it hits me and knowing I can share that helps  and to all of you Thank you for the advice, reality, and advice. 


Jake
Jacob Perry

I refuse to wear my HIV as a badge of shame any longer.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2011, 11:54:10 PM »
its amazing how quickly one can feel comfortable here.  When I said I thought I knew more than I realized I meant what logic's of HIV.  From one of the other posts some one said your more infectious when you first become positive.  How long does that last, do you mean just at first when you seroconvert or is that like the first year of infection??  and yes I truly do know what those have gone threw before me.  I have had friends positvie for 20 plus years and they are in great shape.  I pray to be that good at their age.  I realized I never really asked them questions.  What are your pills like, how do you really feel.  The process of excepting all this is actually fascinating, or at least for me.  8 month es ago I was just living a care free life and always, always on the go.  In the last 8 month es I have stopped everything besides work.  Over the past few month es I have learned to be at peace with just sitting still.  I have asked myself what do I really want out of life, this process has and is making me really just stop cope,think, and grow in ways I never would have thought.  I never would have heard the stories I have here and see the kindness of strangers who really understand how you feel. 
Just everynow and then it hits me and knowing I can share that helps  and to all of you Thank you for the advice, reality, and advice. 


Jake

For most people, someone recently infected will often have a viral load in the hundreds of thousands--if not millions.  For most, their bodies will get a great deal of control over the virus for several years and the viral load will often drop to 50k, 25k, or even lower.  Usually, but not always, though.  That is why we're usually most infectious soon after infection.  I'm not sure how long this usually takes.  My vl stays around 9-15k now.  If how bad you feel during seroconversion has a direct correlation with how high your vl load is, I'm sure mine was in the millions at first.  I'm sure there are studies on the average of how long someone has a sky high vl before it drops due to the body getting some control over the virus.  I know there are studies on the average time it takes before our bodies can no longer control the virus on its own.         

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2011, 06:25:12 AM »
Didn't you grow up with access to the internet, at least from the time you became sexually active?

The internet in its most basic form became available around 1995 in my hometown this was dial up to a local ISP and of course the content on the internet back then was completely different.  This is all of course predicated on the idea that in my spare time as a teenager I spent time poring over the facets of HIV disease progression.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2011, 10:21:24 AM »
The internet in its most basic form became available around 1995 in my hometown this was dial up to a local ISP and of course the content on the internet back then was completely different.  This is all of course predicated on the idea that in my spare time as a teenager I spent time poring over the facets of HIV disease progression.

If you have enough time to hook up via manhunt, then you have enough time to figure out that you should use a condom for anal sex, or whatever AIDS-y (sorry, I mean "advanced HIV disease") stuff you're claiming you didn't know.  

Seriously girl, you're being a tad disingenuous don't you think?  Like I said, I came "of age" without the internet and I learned about AIDS by reading the Village Voice at the library.  Oh, and in Honcho.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 10:22:58 AM by Miss Philicia »
"Ive slept with enough men to know that Im not gay"

Offline denb45

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2011, 10:45:37 AM »

Seriously girl, you're being a tad disingenuous don't you think?  Like I said, I came "of age" without the internet and I learned about AIDS by reading the Village Voice at the library.  Oh, and in Honcho.

These gay children ( that's what I call a younger gay men) now-a-days ( the ones that didn't grow up w/ PCs) have it so much better than us old farts do, I had to get hand-outs form my local ASO, and Dept. of Health, to find out about AIDS back in the day , cuz that was the only way to do it and learn about it  ;)
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 10:47:36 AM by denb45 »
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Offline Hellraiser

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2011, 01:25:35 PM »
If you have enough time to hook up via manhunt, then you have enough time to figure out that you should use a condom for anal sex, or whatever AIDS-y (sorry, I mean "advanced HIV disease") stuff you're claiming you didn't know.  

Seriously girl, you're being a tad disingenuous don't you think?  Like I said, I came "of age" without the internet and I learned about AIDS by reading the Village Voice at the library.  Oh, and in Honcho.

That's like saying Diabetes and Cancer are realities so I should go look up "Acquired Insulin Resistance Syndrome" because my grandmother had it.  I had the very basics but not the level of interest as someone to whom it is pertinent information.  I mean I'm sure some people do, but we all know there is a disconnect from how much knowledge someone has about HIV when they are taking risks versus when they actually have it.  I think manhunt launched in like 04 or 05(I tried to look this up but didn't find much in a simple google search) which was most likely after my infection, but that's impossible to tell.

I'm not defending my ignorance I'm just pointing out the reasoning.

Online Dachshund

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2011, 01:40:24 PM »
If you have enough time to hook up via manhunt, then you have enough time to figure out that you should use a condom for anal sex, or whatever AIDS-y (sorry, I mean "advanced HIV disease") stuff you're claiming you didn't know.  

Seriously girl, you're being a tad disingenuous don't you think?  Like I said, I came "of age" without the internet and I learned about AIDS by reading the Village Voice at the library.  Oh, and in Honcho.

Honey, the girls knew. They were just too drunk or high to worry about GRID.

Offline denb45

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Re: undetectable???
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2011, 01:43:04 PM »
Honey, the girls knew. They were just too drunk or high to worry about GRID.

 ;) So true Dach, so true  :)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

 


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