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Author Topic: This is how you stop bullying  (Read 10873 times)

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Offline bocker3

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #50 on: March 19, 2011, 09:09:40 AM »
I dont think anyone said the bullied kid was wrong to respond.

I dont think anyone defended the bully.

I think a few people said that it wasn't the greatest response, or simply expressed fears that it could have gone really badly for the bullied kid, if the bully ended up with serious damage.

Its contradictory to say that the bullied kid had carte blanche - just by virtue of being bullied - but at the same time say that its wrong to argue boys will be boys. 

Some of you fail to consider that the question we are debating here is - what does each person feel is the proper response by a bullied person?   

The question to debate is NOT the personal character of each of the AIDSMEDS members.

The question to debate is only partially this circumstance, these two boys - because - as others have helpfully pointed out - we dont know the full story. 

So in a discussion of this type - the question moves to ones opinions on the topic in general, in society.

And I think there are people - in this forum for sure - who do really believe that an eye for eye is the only or best response to a bully.  Boys will be boys - i have seen it used here to say that is in fact the nature of the beast and people who feel bullied should buck up and grow thicker skin.

An eye for an eye - fire for fire - violence in response to violence - is NOT the only response, NOR is it always the best one.  It depends on the age of the people in conflict, the nature of the conflict, the personal needs and character of the people in conflict, and the setting.

The only comments that have come from the public or in this forum that have been at all questioning about this bullied kid was the QUALITY of his response, considering some of these circumstance.  Not his right to respond.  And not the wrongness of the bully.   

All you people suggesting otherwise are setting up STRAWDOG opponents for your personal agendas that have little to do with a lively debate on this topic.




Bullshit!

You "cringed" when the bullied kid responded.  You showed empathy for the bully and went off on how the response was (or could have been) too much.  Bottomline, your post showed more concern for the bully than his victim.  I will repeat what I've said a couple of times -- if he hadn't attacked, he wouldn't have been responded to -- this was all about HIS actions.  You are suggesting that perhaps instead of striking back, he should have turned the other cheek?   
No weapons were involved -- but responses like yours do, in fact, give ammo to bullies to keep doing what they are doing.  If you can't see that, then I guess I am simply wasting my time here.  If you had been endlessly bullied at some point in your life -- perhaps you would have been able to show empathy to right person, but as you pointed out -- this didn't happen to you in any big way.
And.....  my only "agenda" is to end bullying.  What, pray tell, is yours??  We know from years of experience that ignoring a bully rarely does any good.

Mike
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Offline thunter34

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #51 on: March 19, 2011, 09:56:47 AM »
The video has already been removed by the user, so I have no idea what all of you are carrying on like kids on a playground about.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline denb45

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #52 on: March 19, 2011, 09:58:21 AM »
The video has already been removed by the user, so I have no idea what all of you are carrying on like kids on a playground about.

 ;) yup it's already old news  ;D
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Online mecch

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #53 on: March 19, 2011, 10:11:21 AM »
Bullshit!

You "cringed" when the bullied kid responded.  You showed empathy for the bully and went off on how the response was (or could have been) too much.  Bottomline, your post showed more concern for the bully than his victim.  I will repeat what I've said a couple of times -- if he hadn't attacked, he wouldn't have been responded to -- this was all about HIS actions.  You are suggesting that perhaps instead of striking back, he should have turned the other cheek?    
No weapons were involved -- but responses like yours do, in fact, give ammo to bullies to keep doing what they are doing.  If you can't see that, then I guess I am simply wasting my time here.  If you had been endlessly bullied at some point in your life -- perhaps you would have been able to show empathy to right person, but as you pointed out -- this didn't happen to you in any big way.
And.....  my only "agenda" is to end bullying.  What, pray tell, is yours??  We know from years of experience that ignoring a bully rarely does any good.

Mike

I cringed because I was afraid the bully would get his neck or head cracked.  I explained that I saw this actually happen, when I was a kid.  I did not say the bully was right. I did not defend his bullying.  You are putting a spin on my response, exactly to set up some strawdog.

The kid got what was coming to him, I agree.  

It is often considered that the response to casual school yard bullying of a one off nature, is a swift effective response by the bullied.  I agree.

That said, it also considered by some parents, school boards, educators and psychologists that the response to a kid being singled out and bullied mercilessly may NOT be within the means of the kids themselves.  

I personally do not think violence is generally the answer for school kids though you have to put up and fend off attacks sometimes, clearly.

The observations change when we go into adolescence.  

From the little info given about this circumstance, which I read, before I saw the video in fact, that kid has been bullied a long time and needs ADULT intervention, IN ADDITION to getting his own response to his situation in order on his own terms.  

Local people objected to the violence of his response.  Nobody nobody defended the bully. Period. Nobody is defending the bully. Get it?  People are concerned that the bullied boy find a way out of a hellish situation - without making the situation worse for himself - because surely he's in hell if the bullying has gone on for years.  

ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline leese43

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #54 on: March 19, 2011, 10:20:59 AM »
Bullshit!

You "cringed" when the bullied kid responded.  You showed empathy for the bully and went off on how the response was (or could have been) too much.  Bottomline, your post showed more concern for the bully than his victim.  I will repeat what I've said a couple of times -- if he hadn't attacked, he wouldn't have been responded to -- this was all about HIS actions.  You are suggesting that perhaps instead of striking back, he should have turned the other cheek?   
No weapons were involved -- but responses like yours do, in fact, give ammo to bullies to keep doing what they are doing.  If you can't see that, then I guess I am simply wasting my time here.  If you had been endlessly bullied at some point in your life -- perhaps you would have been able to show empathy to right person, but as you pointed out -- this didn't happen to you in any big way.
And.....  my only "agenda" is to end bullying.  What, pray tell, is yours??  We know from years of experience that ignoring a bully rarely does any good.

Mike

You are reading what Mecch and hellrider have been saying totally differently to how I have. The way I am reading it is that they are not saying the bullied boy is wrong but with the force he used he could have fractured the bully's skull rather than his leg or even worse killed him if his head had hit the ground a certain way. Now you may still want to say that the bully got what he deserved and you'd probably be right but what would have happened next, in this country anyway, is that the bullied child would have ended up in a detention centre seperated from his parents. I may be wrong but I think taht is what they are trying to get at.

I think sometimes a few people here don't want to hear what mecch and hell have to say just because it's them.

My take on it anyway.

Leese

Oct 04 - Neg
Aug 05 - infected
Oct 05 - cd4 780, vl 60k
Apr 08 - cd4 430, vl 243
Jul 08 - cd4 550, vl 896
Nov 08 - cd4 730, vl 1.8k
May 09 - cd4 590, vl 1.5k
Sep 09 - cd4 460 vl 34k
Dec 09 - cd4 470 vl 42k
April 10 - cd4 430 vl 88.5k
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Offline RapidRod

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #55 on: March 19, 2011, 06:17:53 PM »
You are reading what Mecch and hellrider have been saying totally differently to how I have. The way I am reading it is that they are not saying the bullied boy is wrong but with the force he used he could have fractured the bully's skull rather than his leg or even worse killed him if his head had hit the ground a certain way. Now you may still want to say that the bully got what he deserved and you'd probably be right but what would have happened next, in this country anyway, is that the bullied child would have ended up in a detention centre seperated from his parents. I may be wrong but I think taht is what they are trying to get at.

I think sometimes a few people here don't want to hear what mecch and hell have to say just because it's them.

My take on it anyway.

Leese


Had his parents taught him to respect others, he wouldn't have got his ass thrown on the ground.

Offline bocker3

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #56 on: March 19, 2011, 06:55:57 PM »
I cringed because I was afraid the bully would get his neck or head cracked.  I explained that I saw this actually happen, when I was a kid.  I did not say the bully was right. I did not defend his bullying.  You are putting a spin on my response, exactly to set up some strawdog.

The kid got what was coming to him, I agree.  

It is often considered that the response to casual school yard bullying of a one off nature, is a swift effective response by the bullied.  I agree.

That said, it also considered by some parents, school boards, educators and psychologists that the response to a kid being singled out and bullied mercilessly may NOT be within the means of the kids themselves.  

I personally do not think violence is generally the answer for school kids though you have to put up and fend off attacks sometimes, clearly.

The observations change when we go into adolescence.  

From the little info given about this circumstance, which I read, before I saw the video in fact, that kid has been bullied a long time and needs ADULT intervention, IN ADDITION to getting his own response to his situation in order on his own terms.  

Local people objected to the violence of his response.  Nobody nobody defended the bully. Period. Nobody is defending the bully. Get it?  People are concerned that the bullied boy find a way out of a hellish situation - without making the situation worse for himself - because surely he's in hell if the bullying has gone on for years.  



You lost any credibility in this topic when you referred to the bullied kid as the "fat loser".  While mentioning your "cringe" because the bully might get hurt.

 ::)

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
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Offline skeebo1969

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #57 on: March 19, 2011, 06:56:51 PM »
Had his parents taught him to respect others, he wouldn't have got his ass thrown on the ground.

 LOL  I want to see the big kid's birth certificate.  He looks like he's big enough to go bear hunting with a switch.  You can tell size and rattlesnake like quickness makes for a lethal adversary.  PeeWee was severely outmatched and he sold checks he couldn't cash....

This episode will last the big guy through high school, trust me.  He is now known as one not to screw with.  Good for him.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline bocker3

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #58 on: March 19, 2011, 07:02:32 PM »
You are reading what Mecch and hellrider have been saying totally differently to how I have. The way I am reading it is that they are not saying the bullied boy is wrong but with the force he used he could have fractured the bully's skull rather than his leg or even worse killed him if his head had hit the ground a certain way. Now you may still want to say that the bully got what he deserved and you'd probably be right but what would have happened next, in this country anyway, is that the bullied child would have ended up in a detention centre seperated from his parents. I may be wrong but I think taht is what they are trying to get at.

I think sometimes a few people here don't want to hear what mecch and hell have to say just because it's them.

My take on it anyway.

Leese



Now, we could make up all sorts of scenarios on what "could have happened" -- to what avail.  The bully could have more seriously hurt his victim too -- no one has mentioned that, have they?  The bully could be causing life-long mental trauma to his victim -- but no one has mentioned that, have they?  Nope -- it's all about how much worse the bully might have been hurt -- and, in a small bit of concern to the victim, how that might have impacted him legally.  But is's all a case of could have, should have, would have.
 The most important "could have" scenario is that the bully could have simply NOT BULLIED anyone. 

It has nothing to do with Mecch or Hellraiser -- it has to do with their responses -- particularly Mecch's "fat loser" start to his contributions here.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
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Offline thunter34

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #59 on: March 19, 2011, 07:23:57 PM »
were you a portly child, Mike?
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Joe K

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #60 on: March 19, 2011, 07:42:37 PM »
were you a portly child, Mike?

Wow, was this really necessary?

Offline thunter34

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #61 on: March 19, 2011, 07:51:57 PM »
Wow, was this really necessary?

I only asked because Mike made that comment about "particularly meech's fat loser" opening.

In all seriousness...I'm asking because I WAS a heavy kid.  I used to wear a heavy coat ALL school year long to try to hide it....rather unsuccessfully.  I'm way over sensitive about it.

My initial reaction was that he (Mike) might be way reactionary to that sort of thing, too.

Looking back at it, it probably came off entirely different than intended.

I'm just gonna step right back out of this thread and let these kids fight amongst themselves.  
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline fearless

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #62 on: March 19, 2011, 09:30:26 PM »
Oh well, Casey has special half hour "A Current Affair" devoted to him tonight. He has had overwhelming public support over here for standing up for himself. The promo seems to be following this line.
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #63 on: March 19, 2011, 09:54:59 PM »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline denb45

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #64 on: March 19, 2011, 10:13:22 PM »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #65 on: March 19, 2011, 11:48:01 PM »
WOOF TIM, oh my  ;D is that you?  ;D

Oh, I know of a much more compromising picture floating around teh intratubz of Timberly.  I also have a really adorable one of Tim with CarolAnn.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Jeff G

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #66 on: March 20, 2011, 01:08:08 AM »
Oh, I know of a much more compromising picture floating around teh intratubz of Timberly.  I also have a really adorable one of Tim with CarolAnn.

I had no idea Tim was such a stud , very nice   ;D

Offline woodshere

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #67 on: March 20, 2011, 01:17:34 AM »
I had no idea Tim was such a stud , very nice   ;D

I don't need Xtube tonight..... :D
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline Jeff G

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #68 on: March 20, 2011, 01:28:35 AM »
I don't need Xtube tonight..... :D

Between you and me I think we can take him  ;)

Offline woodshere

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #69 on: March 20, 2011, 01:34:55 AM »
Between you and me I think we can take him  ;)


Well to be honest don't think it would work out in real life, I think timtation and I look for much of the same thing...:)  I was just going to make believe...LOL
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline bocker3

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #70 on: March 20, 2011, 10:36:44 AM »
I only asked because Mike made that comment about "particularly meech's fat loser" opening.

In all seriousness...I'm asking because I WAS a heavy kid.  I used to wear a heavy coat ALL school year long to try to hide it....rather unsuccessfully.  I'm way over sensitive about it.

My initial reaction was that he (Mike) might be way reactionary to that sort of thing, too.

Looking back at it, it probably came off entirely different than intended.

I'm just gonna step right back out of this thread and let these kids fight amongst themselves.  

Well, no, I wasn't really that "portly" as a child (although, I've never been svelte -- OK, perhaps at birth, as a 4.5 lb premmie) -- that all happened in adulthood.  ;)  BTW -- I hadn't read your initial post until after this one -- I get your intent -- no harm done.

As for my reaction to "fat loser" -- it was not so much about the name called, but the fact that he was referred to in a deragatory manner at all.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
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Offline thunter34

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #71 on: March 20, 2011, 10:47:11 AM »
Oh, I know of a much more compromising picture floating around teh intratubz of Timberly.  I also have a really adorable one of Tim with CarolAnn.


This is why I should stick with Foghorn Leghorn.  But then, in the case of having compromising pictures out there, I guess that ship sailed a long time ago.

I'm feeling bullied by Phillicia.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline denb45

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #72 on: March 20, 2011, 11:08:42 AM »

This is why I should stick with Foghorn Leghorn.  But then, in the case of having compromising pictures out there, I guess that ship sailed a long time ago.

I'm feeling bullied by Phillicia.

Timothy  ;D you can send those compromising pictures out to me anytime you want to, I won't ask, and Certainly won't tell, I'm not that type of person who would do something like that to you, I do have some morals left  :D
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline leese43

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #73 on: March 20, 2011, 04:40:29 PM »
Had his parents taught him to respect others, he wouldn't have got his ass thrown on the ground.

I can only assume you didn't read what I wrote before you commented, if you had you would have seen that I never once said I felt bad for the bully.
Oct 04 - Neg
Aug 05 - infected
Oct 05 - cd4 780, vl 60k
Apr 08 - cd4 430, vl 243
Jul 08 - cd4 550, vl 896
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May 09 - cd4 590, vl 1.5k
Sep 09 - cd4 460 vl 34k
Dec 09 - cd4 470 vl 42k
April 10 - cd4 430 vl 88.5k
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Offline leese43

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #74 on: March 20, 2011, 04:49:58 PM »
Now, we could make up all sorts of scenarios on what "could have happened" -- to what avail.  The bully could have more seriously hurt his victim too -- no one has mentioned that, have they?  The bully could be causing life-long mental trauma to his victim -- but no one has mentioned that, have they?  Nope -- it's all about how much worse the bully might have been hurt -- and, in a small bit of concern to the victim, how that might have impacted him legally.  But is's all a case of could have, should have, would have.
 The most important "could have" scenario is that the bully could have simply NOT BULLIED anyone. 

It has nothing to do with Mecch or Hellraiser -- it has to do with their responses -- particularly Mecch's "fat loser" start to his contributions here.

Mike

Jesus, we all know that what the bully did was wrong, it goes without saying the distress and pain that he would have caused. I posted my comment because mecch or hellraiser (I'm not reading back) said that he now needs to learn about his own strength and to maybe learn how to use it without killing someone in future. FOR HIS OWN SAKE NOT THE BULLY'S.
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Jul 08 - cd4 550, vl 896
Nov 08 - cd4 730, vl 1.8k
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Sep 09 - cd4 460 vl 34k
Dec 09 - cd4 470 vl 42k
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Offline Hellraiser

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #75 on: March 21, 2011, 01:59:51 AM »
Jesus, we all know that what the bully did was wrong, it goes without saying the distress and pain that he would have caused. I posted my comment because mecch or hellraiser (I'm not reading back) said that he now needs to learn about his own strength and to maybe learn how to use it without killing someone in future. FOR HIS OWN SAKE NOT THE BULLY'S.

You got it right but there's no convincing him.  Mike, you may not notice it but you have a definite bias against certain people.  I know I rank highly on that list as does Mecch.  I'm not really sure why you feel this way but it's been obvious to me for a while now.

Offline bocker3

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Re: This is how you stop bullying
« Reply #76 on: March 21, 2011, 07:30:50 AM »
You got it right but there's no convincing him.  Mike, you may not notice it but you have a definite bias against certain people.  I know I rank highly on that list as does Mecch.  I'm not really sure why you feel this way but it's been obvious to me for a while now.

Oh honey -- you give yourself far too much credit.  It's cute... but unwarranted.
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