Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
E-newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr MySpace
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
August 27, 2014, 06:56:21 AM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
  • Total Members: 23329
  • Latest: ryant99
Stats
  • Total Posts: 636301
  • Total Topics: 48286
  • Online Today: 185
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online
Users: 2
Guests: 130
Total: 132

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: Whats with CD4 and CD4 percentages?  (Read 2083 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline buginme2

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,834
Whats with CD4 and CD4 percentages?
« on: March 07, 2011, 05:15:35 PM »
So just had my first blood draw since starting meds. 

Viral load is undetectable (woohoo!!) (Or less than 40 I should say)

My CD4 count however dropped from 411 (i think thats what it was ) to 357.  However my CD4 percentage increased from 34% to 46%.

I asked the doc what it all meant and he basically told me at this point cd4 counts and percentages mean nothing and right now he is only concerned about viral load.  Can your CD4 drop after starting meds? Whats with the percentage going up 10%..a bit cornfused :-P

Offline surf18

  • Member
  • Posts: 525
Re: Whats with CD4 and CD4 percentages?
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2011, 05:35:33 PM »
yea mine in the begginning of treatment would raise then drop. freaked me out ill say. also too they say the time of day makes an influence too. like mornings there lower than if you do them in afternoon. some will say though that the percentage is more of what to look at.as the cd4 can be influenced by many things where as the percentage is more stable of a number.

Offline leatherman

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,143
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
Re: Whats with CD4 and CD4 percentages?
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2011, 05:53:43 PM »
Can your CD4 drop after starting meds?
yes, because your cd4 count is not a fixed number, but a very flexible number. that number can easily change by 100+ points just within a single day.

The count is higher in the evening (6-8 pm) and lowest in the morning (8-10 am). The count will actually decrease during the 30 minutes after exercise before increasing (as a benefit of the exericise) 30 - 60 mins later. Stress and illness "can" lower the count.

The best way to consider your cd4 numbers is never by a single test, but by the trend over 3 - 4 tests.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline eric48

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,155
  • @HIVPharmaCure & tinyurl.com/HIVPharmaCure
Re: Whats with CD4 and CD4 percentages?
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2011, 05:59:52 PM »
until you started the meds your body was under the attack of a serious infection.

as a result, the number of lymphocytes (of which CD4 is a sub species) increased

if was exactly : 411 divided by 0.34 that is :  1208

Now that you have (successfully) statted the meds you still have the virus (HIV never clears off completely...) but the infection is cooling off.

currently your lymphocytes are 357 divided by 0.46 that is 776.

Your body simply reflects that you are not any more under the somewhat acute infection you were under until starting the meds.

If your data sheets shows you the CD8 count or percentage, you most likely will see that this number is dropping as well and its percentage is dropping.

Because the infection is now less acute the cytotoxic CD8 have lost their raison d'etre, hence, their (relative) population is decreasing.

This again reflects a cooling down.

Now, hopefully, the CD4 dynamics will slowly take over and most likely a more or less slow but usually steady increase of the CD4 count can be expected.

trees do not grow to the sky , so their is a limit to much they will go up...

The meds are aimed to bring the viral load dawn. what happens to the CD4 , its percentage and other Lymphocyte sub species is up to the odds of your personal history/genetics/age, etc.

It is all showing good signs. Although this should be taken with caution since CD4 dynamics are a bit shaky at beginning of treatment and you now have to let the system at rest and see what ever comes up.

Cheers

Eric   
NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   safety stock : 2 months

Offline drewm

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,080
  • I have a sling and a dungeon :-P
Re: Whats with CD4 and CD4 percentages?
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2011, 06:01:38 PM »
So just had my first blood draw since starting meds. 

Viral load is undetectable (woohoo!!) (Or less than 40 I should say)

My CD4 count however dropped from 411 (i think thats what it was ) to 357.  However my CD4 percentage increased from 34% to 46%.

I asked the doc what it all meant and he basically told me at this point cd4 counts and percentages mean nothing and right now he is only concerned about viral load.  Can your CD4 drop after starting meds? Whats with the percentage going up 10%..a bit cornfused :-P

Congrats on that VL! Good news!
Diagnosed in  May of 2010 with teh AIDS.

PCP Pneumonia . CD4 8 . VL 500,000

ATRIPLA - VALTREX -  FLUOXETINE - FENOFIBRATE


Numbers consistent since 12/2010 - VL has remained undetectable and CD4 is anywhere from 275-325

Offline buginme2

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,834
Re: Whats with CD4 and CD4 percentages?
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2011, 12:55:04 AM »
Thanks for the input. One of the things that concerns me is that my cd4 percentage is high/normal yet the cd4 number is low. 

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Whats with CD4 and CD4 percentages?
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2011, 08:30:05 AM »
Bug, your CD4 isn't really all that low. You need to remember that CD4s can vary by as much or more than 100 points in the course of a single day. That's why many of us pay a little more attention to the CD4% as it's a more stable number. Your CD4 percent is fantastic, btw. Far better than mine has ever been.

I have to say that I find what your doctor said is very annoying. While it's true that when on treatment the VL number is more important than the CD4, that doesn't mean that the CD4 is UNimportant and the least he could have done was explain things to you. Don't put up with him brushing off your questions. Make him work for his fees! He works FOR YOU. Remember that!
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline buginme2

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,834
Re: Whats with CD4 and CD4 percentages?
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2011, 11:09:38 AM »
Ann your right, I think I get a little Intimidated with doctors.   He did say right now at this stage he was more concerned with viral load than cd4 and he would become more concerned withcd4 later, once im undetectable for awhile.  He seems to take everything one step at a time.

I did however write down my concerns this time and give it to him to look over. That helped.

I guess its just nerves. Being new and all. Hoping this goes well. I know cd4 fluctuate but seeing that number got to me. Was a bit scarry. This going in for regular blood tests is quite stresfull.

Offline denb45

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,051
  • "1987 Classic Old School POZ+"
Re: Whats with CD4 and CD4 percentages?
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2011, 11:14:47 AM »
Ann your right, I think I get a little Intimidated with doctors.   He did say right now at this stage he was more concerned with viral load than cd4 and he would become more concerned withcd4 later, once im undetectable for awhile.  He seems to take everything one step at a time.

I did however write down my concerns this time and give it to him to look over. That helped.

I guess its just nerves. Being new and all. Hoping this goes well. I know cd4 fluctuate but seeing that number got to me. Was a bit scarry. This going in for regular blood tests is quite stresfull.

WOW 34 to 42% that's DAM GOOD, mine has never gotten anywhere near this, it's been around 12 to 15% for last 15 yrs. and i don't even know what the % was before then  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline elf

  • Member
  • Posts: 607
Re: Whats with CD4 and CD4 percentages?
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2011, 12:06:16 PM »
Thanks for the input. One of the things that concerns me is that my cd4 percentage is high/normal yet the cd4 number is low.  

One of the things that concerns me is my CD4 being high (1200), and CD4% being low (28%).
I think it's because I have too many CD8 cells, oh well :(

It's so boring.


1200 28% is like  600 56%  ;D or like  900 42 %

 ;D

I think you're doing just fine. :)

« Last Edit: March 08, 2011, 12:15:06 PM by elf »
Let's have a Kiki!

Offline denb45

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,051
  • "1987 Classic Old School POZ+"
Re: Whats with CD4 and CD4 percentages?
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2011, 12:39:17 PM »
One of the things that concerns me is my CD4 being high (1200), and CD4% being low (28%).
I think it's because I have too many CD8 cells, oh well :(

It's so boring.


1200 28% is like  600 56%  ;D or like  900 42 %

 ;D

I think you're doing just fine. :)



YES, it's only numbers not rocket science  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Whats with CD4 and CD4 percentages?
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2011, 02:30:41 PM »
Hey Bug, don't let doctors intimidate you. They shit, fart, burp and put their trousers on one leg at a time just like the rest of us. ;)

You'll get used to it all in time and you'll wonder why you were ever so nervous. I think we were all nervous in the early days, I know I was, but it does get to a point where it's just another one of life's routines. Hang in there, you'll get there too.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.