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Author Topic: Whos In Control?  (Read 15467 times)

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Offline Joe K

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  • Posts: 3,838
  • 31 Years Poz
Whos In Control?
« on: March 01, 2011, 07:22:06 PM »
As witnessed in a few other threads, every time the subject comes up, of whether anything good comes from being poz, draws heated discussion. The threads usually end badly and that is because many of us see HIV very differently, as in, nothing good can come from it. So I am going to ask readers to suspend their opinions, just for a moment to consider the following.

One of the main reasons that I thrive with HIV, is because I am unwilling to give it anything more than what it absolutely demands from me. I do not know how to say this any plainer, but HIV is a virus, a disease and it does not think, reason or feel. Its entire life mission, if given the chance is to kill you. It holds no power, other than the power that you give it and it is why I constantly encourage people to see their life, in terms of what you have done in SPITE of HIV. To me, that is what matters, because then you are retaining control and with HIV, control is everything. We take antivirals to control the disease, because it is, well, a disease.

However, if you insist on claiming that HIV has some magical properties, or that a virus is capable of running your life, I cannot help you, because you cannot reason with a disease. Most probably, you will be doomed to a life where every little sniffle, sends you into a death spiral. You will be allowing a virus to dictate what you do, or do not do and while that means you share no blame, you also forgo any sense of personal enrichment. That last point is paramount, because if you allow HIV to run your life, then you remove your ability to choose and when you lose that, not much is left.

Instead, what I would ask you to consider is that we all possess great potential for personal growth. Becoming poz is a major life altering event and I have never claimed it to be anything less. Such events test us to our core, but through it all, we are always in control, unless we choose to give that control away. This is why I say that nothing good comes from having HIV. It cannot, because it is not able to directly influence how you see yourself, unless you allow it.

If you truly believe that HIV can overtly influence your life, then your battle may already be lost. You are giving up your chance to be content, by insisting that HIV actually cares about you, when its only goal in life, is to kill you. Why would you give your control away to a simple virus? Again, you have given your control away to a disease and there is nothing that anyone can say to help you.

However, if you are willing to consider that people have great potential for growth, then you reclaim your life. By facing your infection and insisting that it not be an impediment in your life, is a victory of indescribable proportions. When you can look inside you and know that you will survive and eventually thrive, in spite of HIV, you will have learned one of the most valuable lessons in life: One person can make a difference and that person is you.

Any good to come from HIV, is what comes from you. If you choose to allow yourself to be defined by HIV, then what do you have left? If instead, you concentrate on how you are adjusting to your new status and recognize that it is you, who is adjusting to being poz, then every step you take will reinforce to you, that you are in control, as much as HIV will allow, but no more than it absolutely demands. That is how you build self confidence and realize that you always have choices. It is how you learn to adjust your life, as events dictate, without crushing your spirit or draining your soul.

I know that some will think I am splitting hairs, in terms of why does it matter if posters want to ascribe good to HIV? It matters because you are insisting on giving HIV the credit for moving on, rather than where it belongs, with you. It is refusing to understand that HIV will never be more than a disease. It will never have any power over you, other than what it absolutely demands or what you willingly give it. It involves seeing the power that we each possess to dictate our future and realizing that you can never give the power of choice away.

It involves personal growth, by adjusting to your status and allowing yourself to live your dreams, not to be limited by a disease. It involves letting go of the pain that being poz has caused you, to say that you are tired of the hurt and that you have the power to make that hurt go away. It involves realizing that everything you need, to live a meaningful life, is already there: inside of you. It involves great introspection in what you want from life and then harnessing whatever resources are necessary, to attain that life. It involves celebrating all that you are and going from there, knowing that your future is always safest, within your own hands.

It involves asking one very simple question: Whos in control, HIV or you?

Offline metekrop

  • Member
  • Posts: 361
Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2011, 07:27:31 AM »
What can I say. 

VERY, VERY INSPIRATIONAL !!!

Thank you so much.
Diag on Dec 8, 2000, CD 440 VL 44K, No Meds
Dec/08 - Feb/09 CD< 50 & VL >500k hosp'z.
St. Atripla - July/09 CD 179, VL 197k
Oct/09 CD 300 VL UD Chol 267
Mar/10 CD 468 UD, Ch 220
Aug/10 CD 460 UD, Ch 195
Dec/10 CD 492 UD, Ch 172
Mar/11 CD 636 UD, Ch 201
Aug/11 CD 530 UD, Ch 98
Jan/12 cd 616 UD, ch 189
Jul/12 CD 640 UD, Ch ?
Dec/12 CD 669 Ud, Ch 125
May/7 CD711 Ud, Ch?
Nov/ 22 663 UD, Ch,
April 17 CD 797,
Oct, 14 CD 810 UD

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2011, 08:19:52 AM »
Well said, Joe.

Offline wolfter

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2011, 08:21:48 AM »
It's amazing how a few words can change an entire meaning.  In spite of vs because of!  
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline denb45

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  • "1987 Classic Old School POZ+"
Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2011, 09:44:24 AM »
No Shit Joe  ;D  "Can We All Just Get Along" Rodney King 1993, it doesn't matter how one got infected, and the way they became HIV, it doesn't make anyone any better than anyone else, we all have this disease, and if nothing else, we all have that one thing in common  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2011, 12:30:42 PM »
It involves personal growth, by adjusting to your status and allowing yourself to live your dreams, not to be limited by a disease. It involves letting go of the pain that being poz has caused you, to say that you are tired of the hurt and that you have the power to make that hurt go away. It involves realizing that everything you need, to live a meaningful life, is already there: inside of you. It involves great introspection in what you want from life and then harnessing whatever resources are necessary, to attain that life. It involves celebrating all that you are and going from there, knowing that your future is always safest, within your own hands.

Exactly what the newly diagnosed have been saying all along.  Once again, no one has said HIV is a good thing but you keep saying we did.  Mode of infection doesn't matter to us, but it does to you guys, the wise LTS.  In the last few weeks I have read nothing but judgement from you guys towards the newly diagnosed and it sucks.

And this little diddy here was even thrown in:

Or the person who does not have any empathy for gay folks (despite his detours into the wild world of backdoor sex) and then finds gay men and women to be his best friends during his tenure with HIV.


Just very fucking nice.  Can you explain this Joe?   Do you share this line of thought?  As you can probably tell I take this as directly pointed at me.  It was just another low ball tactic once again used to make another member feel bad.  What I find telling is when you guys are called on this crap you cry foul.

This arguement is rubbish, nothing more than a strawman really... which has been entertained for nothing more to cause seperation on the forums.

So go ahead, attack us for our mode of infection and tell us we are a danger to the cause.  While you guys spew this I'll continue viewing much of what is said as nothing more than poison.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline denb45

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  • "1987 Classic Old School POZ+"
Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2011, 12:38:05 PM »

And this little diddy here was even thrown in:

Or the person who does not have any empathy for gay folks (despite his detours into the wild world of backdoor sex) and then finds gay men and women to be his best friends during his tenure with HIV.



skeebo...meh where did you see this, was it posted somewhere? who and why would someone do THIS
or maybe I'm just confused, I mean I already got picked on for telling about my past Drug addiction ans how I got AIDS that way, maybe I should have just kept my big month shut, but man, I never saw that coming, guess I was just too slow on the up take here  ??? well no matter, maybe I should just stay out of the Living forums form now on, I'm sick of this SHIT :-[
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 12:58:39 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline skeebo1969

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  • Posts: 5,706
Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2011, 12:51:59 PM »
skeebo...meh where did you see this, was it posted somewhere? who and why would someone do THIS
or maybe I'm just confused, I mean I already got picked on for telling about my past Drug addiction ans how I got AIDS that way, maybe I should have just kept my big month shut, but man, I never saw that coming, guess I was just too slow on the up take here  ???

It was written in one of the many US against Them threads manufactured as of late.  I saw what happened to you in the other thread.  I can't believe I was surprised by it though... sad.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline wolfter

  • Member
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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2011, 12:55:49 PM »
Thanks for using that wide brush to paint all LTS.  Opinions are not the same as judgments and I find it quite humerous that you're doing the exact thing with this post that you're accusing US of doing.  I didn't find one offensive comment in this thread. 
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline denb45

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  • Posts: 5,051
  • "1987 Classic Old School POZ+"
Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2011, 01:03:28 PM »
"Can We All Just Get Along"     Rodney King 1993   ???
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,706
Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2011, 01:09:29 PM »
Thanks for using that wide brush to paint all LTS.  Opinions are not the same as judgments and I find it quite humerous that you're doing the exact thing with this post that you're accusing US of doing.  I didn't find one offensive comment in this thread. 

Opinions and judgements can be held in the same breath so what's your point?  While it doesn't matter to me, I am glad you did not find my post offensive either.   Leave my Humerus out of this.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline leese43

  • Member
  • Posts: 257
Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2011, 01:13:11 PM »
Exactly what the newly diagnosed have been saying all along.  Once again, no one has said HIV is a good thing but you keep saying we did.  Mode of infection doesn't matter to us, but it does to you guys, the wise LTS.  In the last few weeks I have read nothing but judgement from you guys towards the newly diagnosed and it sucks.

And this little diddy here was even thrown in:

Or the person who does not have any empathy for gay folks (despite his detours into the wild world of backdoor sex) and then finds gay men and women to be his best friends during his tenure with HIV.


Just very fucking nice.  Can you explain this Joe?   Do you share this line of thought?  As you can probably tell I take this as directly pointed at me.  It was just another low ball tactic once again used to make another member feel bad.  What I find telling is when you guys are called on this crap you cry foul.

This arguement is rubbish, nothing more than a strawman really... which has been entertained for nothing more to cause seperation on the forums.

So go ahead, attack us for our mode of infection and tell us we are a danger to the cause.  While you guys spew this I'll continue viewing much of what is said as nothing more than poison.

I just want to support what was said here. This has been said all along by newbies but now it's "inspirational" LOL.

Edited to add that I'm not bashing what Joe said and agree with it.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 01:27:29 PM by leese43 »
Oct 04 - Neg
Aug 05 - infected
Oct 05 - cd4 780, vl 60k
Apr 08 - cd4 430, vl 243
Jul 08 - cd4 550, vl 896
Nov 08 - cd4 730, vl 1.8k
May 09 - cd4 590, vl 1.5k
Sep 09 - cd4 460 vl 34k
Dec 09 - cd4 470 vl 42k
April 10 - cd4 430 vl 88.5k
July 10 - cd4 330 vl 118k
Aug 10 - started reyataz/truvada/norvir
Aug 10 - cd4 380 vl 4k (12 days after starting meds :))
Sep 10 - cd4 520 vl 1.5k
Oct 10 - cd4 590 vl 44
Jan 11 -cd4 610 vl <40 cd4% 50
May 11 - cd4 780 vl UD

Offline wolfter

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2011, 01:17:57 PM »
Humorous.  Thanks for the correction.  Even though you won't care, I quite often have typos.  I lost my eyesight a couple of years ago and have regained enough to function, but still have trouble focusing. 
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2011, 01:25:06 PM »
I'm confused with what is going on here.  Thomas/skeebo highlighted a passage

Or the person who does not have any empathy for gay folks (despite his detours into the wild world of backdoor sex) and then finds gay men and women to be his best friends during his tenure with HIV.

... and I don't see it in Joe's opening thread post.  Can someone clarify this for me before I jump in the thread and summon The Cabal with pitchforks via group SMS text?
"Ive slept with enough men to know that Im not gay"

Offline GSOgymrat

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  • Posts: 5,044
  • HIV+ since 1993. INTJ
Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2011, 01:26:29 PM »
  Once again, no one has said HIV is a good thing but you keep saying we did.  Mode of infection doesn't matter to us, but it does to you guys, the wise LTS. 

When have I ever said this? Don't say you were not referring to me because you clearly are.

Offline denb45

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  • "1987 Classic Old School POZ+"
Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2011, 01:32:37 PM »
Sharing the most intimate details about you past life or present, in this forum is a big fat no, no, someone will always take that and run with it, and use it against you every fucking time or change they get, I should have know better than this, especially in the living with forums ??? hey, you live and you learn  :)
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 01:34:34 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline denb45

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,051
  • "1987 Classic Old School POZ+"
Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2011, 01:41:51 PM »
I'm confused with what is going on here.  Thomas/skeebo highlighted a passage

Or the person who does not have any empathy for gay folks (despite his detours into the wild world of backdoor sex) and then finds gay men and women to be his best friends during his tenure with HIV.

... and I don't see it in Joe's opening thread post.  Can someone clarify this for me before I jump in the thread and summon The Cabal with pitchforks via group SMS text?

You, I'm still confused, and don't understand......I mean did somebody drop a house on someone's sister  ;D
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 01:48:15 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Joe K

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  • 31 Years Poz
Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2011, 02:03:35 PM »
Exactly what the newly diagnosed have been saying all along.  Once again, no one has said HIV is a good thing but you keep saying we did.  Mode of infection doesn't matter to us, but it does to you guys, the wise LTS.  In the last few weeks I have read nothing but judgement from you guys towards the newly diagnosed and it sucks.

And this little diddy here was even thrown in:

Or the person who does not have any empathy for gay folks (despite his detours into the wild world of backdoor sex) and then finds gay men and women to be his best friends during his tenure with HIV.


Just very fucking nice.  Can you explain this Joe?   Do you share this line of thought?  As you can probably tell I take this as directly pointed at me.  It was just another low ball tactic once again used to make another member feel bad.  What I find telling is when you guys are called on this crap you cry foul.

This arguement is rubbish, nothing more than a strawman really... which has been entertained for nothing more to cause seperation on the forums.

So go ahead, attack us for our mode of infection and tell us we are a danger to the cause.  While you guys spew this I'll continue viewing much of what is said as nothing more than poison.

Poison? Is that how you see my post? Really? I thought you knew me better than that, but apparently not. I'm sorry you were hurt in another thread, but what does that have to do with mine? I am not passing judgment on anyone, only offering my perspective that has served me well over the years. To say I am disappointed, that you would use my post, to attack others, would be an understatement. I really expected better from you. My mistake.

edited to add: And with that, I am leaving this thread to others, as I do not have the patience to withstand repeated attacks on my posts.

further edited to add: Once I calm down, I will respond to some of the comments here as I believe it is an issue worth discussing.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 02:22:44 PM by killfoile »

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2011, 02:54:10 PM »
To say I am disappointed, that you would use my post, to attack others, would be an understatement. I really expected better from you. My mistake.

It is a mistake, a very big one.  I'm not attacking anyone, I am defending my stance on an extremely offensive post.  And it's not the first Joe.  YOU simply telling us that we "ascribe" to HIV being something good is, well rather offensive.  I am sorry you don't see it.  I am sorry you can't understand when a newbie has no other choice but to keep a positive attitude and move on because life entails it.  At times it has seemed like my fucking world is crashing in around me and I have no other choice than to move forward otherwise my electric gets cut off. Do you think I want HIV on top of all this?  Do you think I use HIV as some kind of motivating factor to say, "it's all gonna be alright because I got HIV?".  I know you don't so why keep implying it?   

I learned something that should have been so obvious to me long ago after watching my mother take her last breath in hospice.   As I walked outside and watched with tears streaming down my face, the cars on the overpass in front of me kept flowing.  The most beautiful person I had ever known had her world just stop spinning and everyone else didn't care.  My pain was my own..  As a person who has only lived with this disease for going on 6 years, my world did not stop even through the stumbles and pitfalls encountered since.  I can only say, what little positive attitude I have these days should really be called survival mode.   I admit I have to put HIV on the backburner sometimes because I have this little thing called life pushing me to worry about other things.  Whether it's my impending separation from my wife or my daughter losing her baby the day before yesterday I can't stop.   As bad as I want to fall apart in all this, HIV included....  I just simply can't. 

Simply put, whether it's HIV, divorce, death, or my dog running away...  I have to still wake up and punch in on time. 
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2011, 03:02:39 PM »
Uh, so wait a minute Thomas.  Your first post in this thread reprimands Joe for what you view as his saying something that was, in your view, never stated -- you then ascribe that to all LTSers and then insult them en masse.  Then to make matters worse, you ascribe something to Joe from another entirely separate thread (cleverly without a link) when, in fact, it was something said by an entirely different poster.

Sorry sugar, but that stinks to high heaven.  Not to mention I asked you to clarify this BS an hour an half ago and during that time you continued to hover on the thread without doing so.
"Ive slept with enough men to know that Im not gay"

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2011, 03:10:09 PM »



   You said "Can someone clarify this for me before I jump in the thread and summon The Cabal with pitchforks via group SMS text?"

   Sorry, I didn't realize that someone was me.  Next time PM me if you want a response or simply put my name in there somewhere.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2011, 03:18:16 PM »


   You said "Can someone clarify this for me before I jump in the thread and summon The Cabal with pitchforks via group SMS text?"

   Sorry, I didn't realize that someone was me.  Next time PM me if you want a response or simply put my name in there somewhere.

I specifically mentioned you in my post -- if that's not clear enough for you then I don't know what to say.

Care to comment on referencing another post in a separate thread by an entirely different poster and then insinuating here that Joe said it, now that I have your most gracious attention?
"Ive slept with enough men to know that Im not gay"

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2011, 03:24:23 PM »


  Asking Joe if he agrees with it is not insinuating that he said it.  If that's how you read it I can't help you buddy.... that's clearly a comprehension problem.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2011, 03:35:17 PM »
... rrrrrrrrrriiight
"Ive slept with enough men to know that Im not gay"

Offline wolfter

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2011, 04:00:12 PM »
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline thunter34

  • Member
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  • His name is Carl.
Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2011, 04:01:53 PM »
skeebo...meh where did you see this, was it posted somewhere? who and why would someone do THIS
or maybe I'm just confused, I mean I already got picked on for telling about my past Drug addiction ans how I got AIDS that way, maybe I should have just kept my big month shut, but man, I never saw that coming, guess I was just too slow on the up take here  ??? well no matter, maybe I should just stay out of the Living forums form now on, I'm sick of this SHIT :-[


Very rich of you to be playing victim for bullshit YOU started with me in the first place.

And WTF is up with you people taking quotes from other threads and trying to instigate some fight in what was started a s a well meaning thread?

AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Joe K

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  • Posts: 3,838
  • 31 Years Poz
Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2011, 04:08:06 PM »
It is a mistake, a very big one.  I'm not attacking anyone, I am defending my stance on an extremely offensive post.  And it's not the first Joe.  YOU simply telling us that we "ascribe" to HIV being something good is, well rather offensive.  I am sorry you don't see it.  I am sorry you can't understand when a newbie has no other choice but to keep a positive attitude and move on because life entails it.  At times it has seemed like my fucking world is crashing in around me and I have no other choice than to move forward otherwise my electric gets cut off. Do you think I want HIV on top of all this?  Do you think I use HIV as some kind of motivating factor to say, "it's all gonna be alright because I got HIV?".  I know you don't so why keep implying it?   

I learned something that should have been so obvious to me long ago after watching my mother take her last breath in hospice.   As I walked outside and watched with tears streaming down my face, the cars on the overpass in front of me kept flowing.  The most beautiful person I had ever known had her world just stop spinning and everyone else didn't care.  My pain was my own..  As a person who has only lived with this disease for going on 6 years, my world did not stop even through the stumbles and pitfalls encountered since.  I can only say, what little positive attitude I have these days should really be called survival mode.   I admit I have to put HIV on the backburner sometimes because I have this little thing called life pushing me to worry about other things.  Whether it's my impending separation from my wife or my daughter losing her baby the day before yesterday I can't stop.   As bad as I want to fall apart in all this, HIV included....  I just simply can't. 

Simply put, whether it's HIV, divorce, death, or my dog running away...  I have to still wake up and punch in on time. 

I don't know how to respond to you, not because of what you said, but rather how you chose to say it. If you read my post as being insulting, then I suggest that this post is of no interest to you. However, there are some newly infected, who are very confused and afraid of being poz and my goal is to reach them and present some food for thought. If you look at my posting history, you will find it filled with either supportive posts, or inane drivel and that is always your right. What I ask you not to do, is to put words into my mouth, or worse, ascribe the words of another to me. How does that contribute to the intent of this thread?

I'm real sorry you are having a hard time right now and if my post offended you, I apologize. But please do not take it out on me. I make posts like these, because I know they matter to certain readers and sometimes they help alter their perception of what living with HIV means. I write in support of thriving with HIV and while I may not always strike the right tone in writing, I'm usually pretty good on getting to the meat of an issue.

I also find it very interesting, that even with the different approaches, you and I are essentially saying the same thing. That somehow, through personal intestinal fortitude, we are compelled to move on and live. I would ask, that when you read my posts, you look for my overall intent, rather than focusing on a couple of words. As I always say, I don't know everything and I will never tell you how to live. I write what I know and I know that what I write makes a difference... if only for a few.

Offline denb45

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2011, 04:12:32 PM »

Very rich of you to be playing victim for bullshit YOU started with me in the first place.

And WTF is up with you people taking quotes from other threads and trying to instigate some fight in what was started a s a well meaning thread?



Rich oh really now, I thought your tooth was out, isn't this the end, I sure hope so.....unless you wanna go there again with me....we can go there if that's the way you wanna play THIS, but I think NOT, I got better things to do with my time dear......I already apologized to you in the own thread, did you not get the memo on this, are you don't know how to accept it and move on, I'm over it it's history to me, I was just venting, sorry you took this the wrong way...........can we all get along? can we? I'm willing  ;)
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 04:21:54 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline thunter34

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2011, 04:18:04 PM »
Rich oh really now, I thought your tooth was out, isn't this the end, I sure hope so.....unless you wanna go there again with me....we can go there if that's the way you wanna play THIS, but I think NOT, I got better things to do with my time dear......

You started this - now KNOCK IT OFF.  Like right the fuck now.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline denb45

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2011, 04:23:37 PM »
You started this - now KNOCK IT OFF.  Like right the fuck now.

didn't you even read what I wrote above, I'm over it, I'll stop, if you will....dude chill out man, it's all good
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2011, 04:56:46 PM »
Everyone needs to STOP right now! Or there are going to be some Time Outs handed out and the thread will get locked.

If you can't put something forward in an affirmative way then don't bother.

Thanks for your cooperation before this thread unnecessarily goes further south.
Andy Velez

Offline MarcoPoz

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #31 on: March 03, 2011, 10:14:03 AM »
Jeepers--thread goes to hell in a handbasket and I had NOTHING to do with it?  ;)

Hang in there Skeeb.

Joe--
"Any good to come from HIV, is what comes from you. If you choose to allow yourself to be defined by HIV, then what do you have left? If instead, you concentrate on how you are adjusting to your new status and recognize that it is you, who is adjusting to being poz, then every step you take will reinforce to you, that you are in control, as much as HIV will allow, but no more than it absolutely demands. That is how you build self confidence and realize that you always have choices. It is how you learn to adjust your life, as events dictate, without crushing your spirit or draining your soul."

I'm an existentialist and not suprisingly, a Buddhist as well.  To me 'control' is an illusion  ;)  However what you offer here is a uniquely important bit of advice and veiw of the relationship one might have with HIV.  This thought process can take time and introspection to arrive at fully, and continued introspection to maintain.  My guess is that's why it may be difficult for some to see this as valid--but still--in my opinion--great advice.

Many of us grew in our life with HIV in a series of stages--some perceptable--some not.  When I was closer to my time of diagnosis than I am now, there was a time where I DID let HIV define me--good and bad--as a way of 'taking power' over it.  Yes it was most likely an ego-based coping mechanism and some might not even understand it--but like many crutches, it helped for a time when I needed it.

As far as bashing each other about for HOW we got HIV--yeah that's so f'n sad, hypocritical and unhealthy and it needs to stop.  While inserting issues from one thread into another is considered bad forum form, it may be in this instance an outcome from the I-got-my-HIV-the-"normal-way-and-you're-a-freak-because-of-how-you-got-HIV, BS.  I've been called everything here from DL-fag, junkie, Str8?, closet queen etc etc etc.

How can we talk to each other about growing emotionally, spiritually, intellectually etc with HIV all whilst we slam each other with the same stigma that society throws at each of us?

Seriously--do we need to start a new forum heading for "Bad mouthing bitter bitching" so we can just keep the shit confined in one place?

Fed up-

Marco

Offline denb45

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2011, 10:34:48 AM »
All's fair in love and war.
In some situations, such as when you are in love or waging war, you are allowed to be deceitful in order to get what you want. (Often said as an excuse for deception.) I cheated on the entrance exam, but I really want to get into that school, and all's fair in love and war. To get Judy to go out with him, Bob lied and told her that her boyfriend was seeing another woman. All's fair in love and war.
 Ever watch Jerry Springer?   besides we've all kissed and made up with each other already  ;D
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 10:37:53 AM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline MarcoPoz

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2011, 10:42:01 AM »
All's fair in love and war.
In some situations, such as when you are in love or waging war, you are allowed to be deceitful in order to get what you want. (Often said as an excuse for deception.) I cheated on the entrance exam, but I really want to get into that school, and all's fair in love and war. To get Judy to go out with him, Bob lied and told her that her boyfriend was seeing another woman. All's fair in love and war.
 Ever watch Jerry Springer?   besides we've all kissed and made up with each other already  ;D

Happy for all of you then.  So does this mean we can keep from doing it in the future, so that this forum can be a place where people living with HIV, regardless of mode of transmission can feel as though they can openly discuss the issues they need to discuss in hopes of learning how to live with this disease? 

Offline denb45

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2011, 10:57:56 AM »
Happy for all of you then.  So does this mean we can keep from doing it in the future, so that this forum can be a place where people living with HIV, regardless of mode of transmission can feel as though they can openly discuss the issues they need to discuss in hopes of learning how to live with this disease? 

Humm, let me see here, oh wait, I'm not in control, but the real question here is Who's In Control?
interesting point Marco, I sure hope so, I want world peace, cheaper Meds and gas prices, but that doesn't mean I'm going them...however I still have HOPE  :)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2011, 11:11:37 AM »

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2011, 11:13:05 AM »

  Very well said Marco.  

  Joe, My apologies to you for using your thread as an opportunity to bring out some of my current frustrations about the subject matter.  The quote from another thread I used above came from a similar thread regarding the same topic.  I think what peeved me most is that most of you all, who I had the utmost respect for, read this post and never once corrected the author for what I and others have deemed as highly inappropriate.  It's also why I have said in the other thread regarding this same issue that you guys have a tendency to back each other up beyond a fault.

  And let's be honest here, the quote above should have never been ignored by anyone.  It was pure nastiness, but yet you guys commented how compassionate he was shortly after because I called him on his crap.

  So yeah, it was a lingering issue for me and it was addressed wrong on my part.  I asked if you agreed with his line of thinking because you were the first to comment after he posted his up the ass and no empathy for gays remark.    It seems to me, these type of comments are totally acceptable by both you and others here and this is just as wrong as my committing poor forum etiquette by quoting from another thread......

  Where does this leave us? After rereading what I've written above, I see a half ass apology supported by a bunch of excuses on my part.  But, let's face it-- the comment itself was lame and should have been addressed by not just myself but by everyone positive  who read it.    

  I'm just as fed up as everyone else.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 11:14:54 AM by skeebo1969 »
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline wolfter

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2011, 11:40:55 AM »
I know several of us didn't see the referenced comment on another thread.  It was asked but not answered. I absolutely would have defended whoever was attcked in this manner.  For me, I don't give a shit how someone was infected!  I led a pretty conservative gay lifestyle while the majority of my friends did the bath houses, reststops, and any other sexual encounter that fancied them.  That didn't make them more or less deserving of this illness.

Now can we enjoy another a nice glass of white zin and toast to ourselves?
Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline denb45

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2011, 12:14:22 PM »
I know several of us didn't see the referenced comment on another thread.  It was asked but not answered. I absolutely would have defended whoever was attcked in this manner.  For me, I don't give a shit how someone was infected!  I led a pretty conservative gay lifestyle while the majority of my friends did the bath houses, reststops, and any other sexual encounter that fancied them.  That didn't make them more or less deserving of this illness.

Now can we enjoy another a nice glass of white zin and toast to ourselves?

Well, I'm fresh outta white Zin, finished that off last night, now I'm reaching for my bottle of LORAZEPAM
so I can get the nerve to get myself outta the house, and go pay the Rent ,so I can deal with the RUDE people @ my local  Walmart .."aint nothing going on but the RENT" ;D    
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 12:19:44 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Joe K

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2011, 12:28:58 PM »
 Very well said Marco.  

  Joe, My apologies to you for using your thread as an opportunity to bring out some of my current frustrations about the subject matter.  The quote from another thread I used above came from a similar thread regarding the same topic.  I think what peeved me most is that most of you all, who I had the utmost respect for, read this post and never once corrected the author for what I and others have deemed as highly inappropriate.  It's also why I have said in the other thread regarding this same issue that you guys have a tendency to back each other up beyond a fault.

  And let's be honest here, the quote above should have never been ignored by anyone.  It was pure nastiness, but yet you guys commented how compassionate he was shortly after because I called him on his crap.

  So yeah, it was a lingering issue for me and it was addressed wrong on my part.  I asked if you agreed with his line of thinking because you were the first to comment after he posted his up the ass and no empathy for gays remark.    It seems to me, these type of comments are totally acceptable by both you and others here and this is just as wrong as my committing poor forum etiquette by quoting from another thread......

  Where does this leave us? After rereading what I've written above, I see a half ass apology supported by a bunch of excuses on my part.  But, let's face it-- the comment itself was lame and should have been addressed by not just myself but by everyone positive  who read it.    

  I'm just as fed up as everyone else.

I agree that the comment should have been addressed, in the thread that generated the comment, or in a thread of your own. As I read your words, you paint with a very broad brush, interspersing comments directed at me.  I am left wondering how I can possibly respond to the multiple issues you mention. So I am not going to try, because let's be honest here, you broadsided me and are still doing it, with your response that somehow I am also at fault for what another poster wrote. I'm sorry I missed the comment when it was first posted, as I would have said something, but I just missed it. However, for you to take your anger, from that thread and to redirect it, against me, is simply beyond the pail and I don't like to play mind fuck. So I will not. Over and outta here.

Offline MarcoPoz

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #40 on: March 03, 2011, 12:42:52 PM »
I know several of us didn't see the referenced comment on another thread.  It was asked but not answered. I absolutely would have defended whoever was attcked in this manner.  For me, I don't give a shit how someone was infected!  I led a pretty conservative gay lifestyle while the majority of my friends did the bath houses, reststops, and any other sexual encounter that fancied them.  That didn't make them more or less deserving of this illness.

Now can we enjoy another a nice glass of white zin and toast to ourselves?

Hmmm.. is this the place where I confess that I'm just 'trendy' enough to have recently converted a basement room into a wine 'closet'?  ;)  200 bottle storage capacity as well as space for my single malt collection and home brews.

Now a GOOD white zin...?  Sounds like interesting research I should begin immediately!

Offline wolfter

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #41 on: March 03, 2011, 12:48:37 PM »
Let me assist you with your search.  This is my absolute favorite;  http://www.sutterhome.com/w_wz.php

Now, if they'd just produce it in box form, I could die a happy man.....

Complacency is the enemy.  ;)  Challenge yourself daily for maximum  return on investment.

Offline denb45

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2011, 12:49:28 PM »
 Joe and skeebo.....WHERE MY LORAZEPAM   ???  you guys are killing me here  ???
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 12:55:49 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline MarcoPoz

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2011, 01:22:25 PM »
Let me assist you with your search.  This is my absolute favorite;  http://www.sutterhome.com/w_wz.php

Now, if they'd just produce it in box form, I could die a happy man.....



Appologies for continued thread hijack:

Now I am FAR from well-versed in whites, but since you've made a recommendation for me--I'll point you toward my favorite white:  it's from Antinori, Campogrande Orvieto.  2009 version is a blend of   Procanico, Grechetto, Verdello, Drupeggio & Malvasia .

Inexpensive-comparatively, and a nice 'go-to' white for me  ;D

Now...Back to our regularly scheduled argument.   

Offline CaptCarl

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2011, 03:42:12 PM »
   Is it just me  or did things here get way too far out of control for a seemingly innocuous posting about having some measure of control over your life? There was nothing mean or mean spirited about the original posting, but then all of a sudden it gets hijacked and makes a screaming left turn into darkness. With Screaming being the operative word here.
   I'm not too sure what the quote from an entirely different thread has to do with this thread either. I went back and read that thread, and it didn't seem to call out anyone specifically, rather it had to do with a behavior. I can agree with the sentiment about one who slams a certain group of people for their behavior while participating in in that behavior. (Remember Ted Haggard?) Since the quote was aimed at no specific person, for someone to get that pissed off about it can only lead to the conclusion that they are indeed doing this, otherwise why would it be upsetting?  Nor do I understand the kvetching about an "Us VS Them" mentality. I thought we were all in this together, that method of infection was irrelevant to the situation. Apparently not. WTF is up with all the negativity towards those are LTS?

   This isn't LIVING with HIV. It's WALLOWING in it.


CaptCarl
The only thing I can do straight is shoot..

Offline AlanBama

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #45 on: March 03, 2011, 03:56:46 PM »
It seems there is a lot of mis-directed anger in the Living With Forum nowadays.  I have no idea what is causing this, but would like to come to a better understanding about it.
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #46 on: March 03, 2011, 04:25:12 PM »
      Since the quote was aimed at no specific person, for someone to get that pissed off about it can only lead to the conclusion that they are indeed doing this, otherwise why would it be upsetting? 

  LOL wrong, but whatever.  I love to see who exactly supports such words here and I'm quite surprised you are one of them.  So let me follow with your line of thinking--- perhaps he made the comment due to his animosity towards straights.  I mean it's not the first time.

  And trust many people were upset by it.   
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline David_CA

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #47 on: March 03, 2011, 04:30:46 PM »
It seems there is a lot of mis-directed anger in the Living With Forum nowadays.  I have no idea what is causing this, but would like to come to a better understanding about it.
I'm not sure what's up either, Alan.  Like I mentioned to you, I take a break from the forums every few days and tend to miss things. 

As for HIV, I try to not let it control me, which is much easier now than in the first few months after diagnosis.  HIV, the virus itself, has not improved my life.  The diagnosis, knowing what the virus can do, has given me motivation and reasons to improve and / or change my life.  Little things, such as drinking less, to bigger things like going back to school for an additional degree are both directly related to my diagnosis.  Knowing how dependent I am on insurance prompted me to make myself more 'marketable' to employers by getting the degree. 

I like to think that I'm in control of my life (as much as anybody ever is), but I'm also mindful of what this virus can do to me.
Black Friday 03-03-2006
03-23-06 CD4 359 @27.4% VL 75,938
06-01-06 CD4 462 @24.3% VL > 100,000
08-15-06 CD4 388 @22.8% VL >  "
10-21-06 CD4 285 @21.9% VL >  "
  Atripla started 12-01-2006
01-08-07 CD4 429 @26.8% VL 1872!
05-08-07 CD4 478 @28.1% VL 740
08-03-07 CD4 509 @31.8% VL 370
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02-21-08 CD4 648 @32.4% VL 600
05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
08-21-08 CD4 725 @34.5%
11-11-08 CD4 672 @39.5%
02-11-09 CD4 773 @36.8%
05-11-09 CD4 615 @36.2%
08-19-09 CD4 770 @38.5%
11-19-09 CD4 944 @33.7%
02-17-10 CD4 678 @39.9%  
06-03-10 CD4 768 @34.9%
09-21-10 CD4 685 @40.3%
01-10-11 CD4 908 @36.3%
05-23-11 CD4 846 @36.8% VL 80
02-13-12 CD4 911 @41.4% VL<20
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Offline mecch

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2011, 04:59:52 PM »
Knowing how dependent I am on insurance prompted me to make myself more 'marketable' to employers by getting the degree. 
I like to think that I'm in control of my life (as much as anybody ever is), but I'm also mindful of what this virus can do to me.

HIV is connected to money and I often think about HIV like I think about rent and savings accounts - pain in the ass realities you have to deal with. 

I guess as long as you have a job that's good enough for you and also provides a living, you still have the control.

I could freak out and break down without a job and a cozy place to live. I suppose living in Switzerland I'll always have medical care.  Theres much more to life than disease prevention. As long as I keep anxiety to a manageable level, I don't think anything controls me.  But you gotta bring home the bacon thats for sure.
From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need 1875 K Marx

Offline CaptCarl

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Re: Whos In Control?
« Reply #49 on: March 03, 2011, 05:19:26 PM »
  LOL wrong, but whatever.  I love to see who exactly supports such words here and I'm quite surprised you are one of them.  So let me follow with your line of thinking--- perhaps he made the comment due to his animosity towards straights.  I mean it's not the first time.

  And trust many people were upset by it.   

My line of thinking? Actually, no.



So please allow me to clarify my line of thought about this:



   Joe started a thread that was well thought out. Considerately worded, and had an inspirational tone to it. For some reason, you chose to respond in a manner which I viewed as hostile. Also, you brought in a qoute from another thread, that was posted by someone else, and had no relevance whatsoever to the thread you brought it into, and it all pretty much went downhill from there. I am unsure as to the motives that caused you to do this. Did you intentionally do this to wreck a perfectly good thread?

   As I stated, I wondered why you took the quote so personally, when it was clearly not aimed at anyone in particular. Were you in fact doing the very thing that the quote points out? If not, then why the rage over it? All you have done here is to draw attention to yourself, making yourself look guilty. The point that was being made in the quote was about Hypocrisy. If indeed you, (or anyone) has condemmned a group of people for their behavior while simultaneoulsy engaging  in that behavior, that is hypocrisy. Just like Ted Haggard railing against gays, all the while he's doing crystal meth and having sex with male prostitutes.



  You ask me if I support "these words". If someone is being a hypocrite, then yes, I support them. When a person is being hypocritical, they should be called on it. If that makes me a bad person, then so be it. I'm comfortable with that.



   I hope this clears up what my line of thought is as opposed to what you think it was.



CaptCarl
The only thing I can do straight is shoot..

 


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