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Author Topic: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS  (Read 7702 times)

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Offline tednlou2

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The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« on: February 28, 2011, 02:29:41 AM »
It is good to see people living with HIV/AIDS doing so well.  Below are pix of Jack Mackenroth and Nelson Vergel, TheBody's nutrition expert.  Nelson has been living with the virus for 27 years.  I believe Jack has been poz since the early 90's.  I know both have had medical issues, but they obviously must have a lot of energy and stamina to achieve those looks.  If you had a lot of energy issues, I don't see how you could get to the gym several times a week. 

Just wondering whether you think they are the exception and not the rule?  If not the exception, it gives me hope that life after 27 years of infection won't necessarily mean life will be that bad.  This brings up a good point.  Jack is featured on queerty.com, a site visited by many young gay men.  Do you think seeing pix like this could add to the growing feeling that HIV is no big deal--on the one hand showing life with HIV can be good, but also leading people to think it is nothing to worry about and protect yourself from?  That is by no means saying Jack and other HIVers shouldn't show off their bodies.  They can't control what people think and do.  If I looked like that, I would show it off, too.   






http://www.queerty.com/youre-gonna-buy-whatever-jack-mackenroth-is-selling-20110211/   

Offline mecch

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2011, 05:43:31 AM »
Ah, bravo for their health and energy and dedication to staying healthy.

Jack Mackenroth is "fabulous early 40's" and extremely show biz.  A great muscled body, but any photo he has any control also comes with a photoshop copyright.  

 Mackenroth seems to have become a certain type of professional gay / AIDS benefit professional, always on the fringe of celebrity.  The swimsuit image matches that identity.  Clearly he works out and does lots of sports and is a handsome guy.  I personally don't find a bimbo-esque "forever young" 40-something A-list muscle-mary image to be inspiring in any way about living with HIV.  Impressive achievement by him, with his body, yes!  But the photo, just seems too theatrical.

I don't think it has any impact whatsoever on a "growing feeling that hiv is no big deal".  Mackenroth has the right to do what he wants with his time and show off the results.  Everyone who thinks for just an itty bitty moment knows there are people available to illustrate both extremes of living with HIV - glowing gods of eternal youth, and decaying disabled AIDS victims.   In between there's the rest of us average folk and I think we do the good publicity of showing in our everyday lives the mundane and chronic management.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 07:31:03 PM by mecch »
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline surf18

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2011, 08:02:33 AM »
who is the guy in the blue underwear?damn! hot!

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2011, 10:24:55 AM »
#
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 11:17:13 AM by GSOgymrat »

Offline buginme2

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2011, 04:09:47 PM »
Ya know in my younger clubbing days we used to always assume that any big muscle guy was positive due to the steroids they gave people with HIV.  Now I'm quite aware that is probably a stereotype but I'm just saying.

I work out 5 times a week. Did before HIV and hope to continue after.  Im new here though.  I'm glad to see that there is hope though.
Don't be fancy, just get dancey

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2011, 04:43:57 PM »
Ya know in my younger clubbing days we used to always assume that any big muscle guy was positive due to the steroids they gave people with HIV.  Now I'm quite aware that is probably a stereotype but I'm just saying.

No, it's just dumb.  There are plenty of HIV- guys (just like heterosexual males) who easily score black market steroids at the gym.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline denb45

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2011, 05:02:17 PM »
No, it's just dumb.  There are plenty of HIV- guys (just like heterosexual males) who easily score black market steroids at the gym.

Yeah, and all the COPS use them, but they'll tell you they don't, and we all know that's a bunch of bullshit
these Bumpy Baby Rhinos looking fools with NO Dick, aren't fooling anyone, so girls, don't believe everything you see,  ;D
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 05:15:56 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline buginme2

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2011, 06:06:35 PM »
No, it's just dumb. 

Oh come now.  It may not be the most brilliant thing I have ever spoken but its not like I pulled that one out of thin air.  Ive had my share of circuit party extravaganza's and those with the best bodies were assumed by many to be positive.  Especially since it was thought that steriods were prescribed.  I never said it was right.

Don't be fancy, just get dancey

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2011, 06:44:17 PM »
Ive had my share of circuit party extravaganza's and those with the best bodies were assumed by many to be positive.  Especially since it was thought that steriods were prescribed.  I never said it was right.

Perhaps the circuit party guys with the best bodies are positive not because they use steroids but because they are the most attractive and get their dance card punched the most times.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2011, 06:57:43 PM »
Too bad the party circuit didn't assume that everybody was positive.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2011, 07:00:12 PM »
Too bad the party circuit didn't assume that everybody was positive.

What? You mean White Party 2009: Bareback With Twinks isn't an effective prevention measure?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline woodshere

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2011, 09:19:16 PM »
Oh come now.  It may not be the most brilliant thing I have ever spoken but its not like I pulled that one out of thin air.  Ive had my share of circuit party extravaganza's and those with the best bodies were assumed by many to be positive.  Especially since it was thought that steriods were prescribed.  I never said it was right.

On the flip side, wonder how many of us are here, because "He didn't look sick?"
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline surf18

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2011, 09:27:17 PM »
that is so true wood!!!!!!

Offline denb45

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2011, 10:16:02 PM »
On the flip side, wonder how many of us are here, because "He didn't look sick?"

Well I didn't get this from having sex, I used to skin-pop cocaine, and heroin and shared dirty needles, I wasn't thinking about sex, heck, I was too high for that, back then I had no interest in sex, slamming junk
 into my veins with shared needles was my sex, sometimes it helps me to talk about THIS  ???
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline thunter34

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2011, 11:10:12 PM »
Well I didn't get this from having sex, I used to skin-pop cocaine, and heroin and shared dirty needles, I wasn't thinking about sex, heck, I was too high for that, back then I had no interest in sex, slamming junk
 into my veins with shared needles was my sex, sometimes it helps me to talk about THIS  ???

No wonder you didn't notice any pain when you lost all your teeth.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline aztecan

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2011, 11:41:08 PM »
Actually, given the opportunity, I would probably prefer getting to know Nelson Vergel better.

He has been poz a year longer than I have.

If I remember correctly, he became a health enthusiast after suffering some wasting issues way back when. We have emailed a couple of times regarding lipo stuff.

He has managed to escape the humpette and horse collar neck, which, I, unfortunately, didn't.  ::)

I like many of his fitness and nutrition ideas and he is a sweet man.

I don't know the other guy, so I can't say anything about him.

As for everyone doing what these two pozzies have done, well, it would be nice.

I think a lot of it has to do with how we take care of ourselves, our genetics, diet, etc., and just plain luck.

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline tednlou2

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2011, 01:19:05 AM »
I like Nelson, too.  He was recently featured in a two-part video about nutrition and exercise.  He is really into fiber for proper pooping..lol.  It was done by Mark S King, so the videos aren't as boring as one might think.   

Part 1 is the nutrition video:

http://www.thebody.com/content/art60059.html

Part 2 is the exercise video:

http://www.thebody.com/content/art60241.html

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2011, 01:35:16 AM »
You should see his facebook page flaunting his roid bod on gay cruises and at circuit parties. ::)
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2011, 08:51:53 AM »
Nelson helped me out when I began researching lipoatrophy years ago. I never knew what he looked like.

BTW, what makes a circuit party a circuit party and not a regular party? Being the completely introverted type, I have never been to one.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2011, 09:16:46 AM »
Party on Garth:

A study out yesterday in The Lancet byHPV is the virus that causes cervical cancer in women. It also causes warts and cancer of the genitals and anus in both men and women. Over the past several years, researchers have realized that the virus can also cause cancer of the head and neck.

Aimee R. Kreimer, PhD, of the National Cancer Institute, estimates that about 65 percent of the approximately 8,000 cancers of the oropharynx (tonsils and base of the tongue) seen in the U.S. in 2010 were from HPV infection; 80 percent of these are in men. The rates for HPV-associated cancers like these are increasing; for sites like the mouth and larynx that are associated with tobacco and alcohol use, the rates are decreasing (though still too high since too many people still smoke and abuse alcohol).

An infection rate of 50 percent for a virus that can cause cancer sounds scary. But knowing a few more facts about HPV helps put the risk in perspective. About 90 percent of men and women infected with HPV virus get rid of it on their own within about two years. There are many different strains of HPV - some that cause cancer and some that don't. Only about 6 percent of men have genital infection with HPV 16 -- the strain linked to more than 90 percent of cancers of the head and neck. And only about 0.6 percent of men have HPV 16 in specimens taken from their mouths; what percentage of those men go on to develop head and neck cancer is unknown.

Right now, there are many more questions than answers. How exactly does HPV get from the genitals to the mouth? Oral sex is one obvious answer but the virus may also be spread by the fingers, kissing, or some other unsuspected route. Why does the infection persist in 10 percent of people?

What's urgently needed is some way of detecting the virus early -- the oral equivalent of a Pap smear. Researchers are trying to develop such a test at centers like Johns Hopkins, where earlier this month I interviewed a 64-year-old man whose HPV-linked tongue cancer was picked up only incidentally because he happened to go to an ear, nose, and throat doctor to get ear wax removed. There's got to be a better way of picking up asymptomatic HPV infection of the head and neck - before it progresses to cancer.

Finally, today's study is sure to provoke discussion about whether an HPV vaccine like Gardasil should be routinely recommended by public health officials for males as it is for females. The vaccine covers four strains of HPV, including strain 16, the one most commonly linked to head and neck cancer. Right now, the CDC supports "permissive use" of the vaccine in males 9-26 but stops short of actually recommending its use.



Offline skeebo1969

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2011, 09:40:13 AM »



   Where does HPV factor in?  Is it on the military press or the leg squat machine?
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2011, 09:46:24 AM »


   Where does HPV factor in?  Is it on the military press or the leg squat machine?

Obvious homoerotic overtones.

Right now, there are many more questions than answers. How exactly does HPV get from the genitals to the mouth? Oral sex is one obvious answer but the virus may also be spread by the fingers, kissing, squats or some other unsuspected route

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2011, 09:54:04 AM »
Obvious homoerotic overtones.

LOL that's quite funny.

Having trouble understanding the thread....  So HPV causes bigger muscles? 
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2011, 09:58:06 AM »
I would say it was tongue in cheek, but I might spread HPV to me!

Offline AlanBama

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2011, 10:03:03 AM »
To the OP's original query, I think these guys are probably the exception, rather than the rule.   Nelson Vergel is a very nice guy, and I have the utmost respect for him.  I think Jack Mc. is very handsome, and does have a great body (in this pic, at least).   I personally would rather have Nelson as a rep. of LTSers than Jack, but that's just my personal opinion.    (I have never liked those star tattoos on Jack's elbows, and I think he made a huge mistake with that, but again, just my o.p.).

There's no question that steroids can help you to have a muscular bod...I had one in my early 40's, nothing like Jack's but not bad for an old hillbilly like me....let me tell you, it gets a LOT TOUGHER in the mid 50's.

hugs, Alan

"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2011, 10:08:45 AM »
(I have never liked those star tattoos on Jack's elbows, and I think he made a huge mistake with that, but again, just my o.p.).

There's no question that steroids can help you to have a muscular bod...

I agree regarding the tattoos. Drawing attention to the elbows just isn't a smart choice, particularly as we age.

I also wanted to point out that just taking steroids doesn't give you a great body. You have to actually exercise and eat properly.

PS- Just watched the fitness video. Nelson looks adorable!
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 10:13:56 AM by GSOgymrat »

Offline AlanBama

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2011, 10:36:59 AM »
II also wanted to point out that just taking steroids doesn't give you a great body. You have to actually exercise and eat properly.


Amen, brother!
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2011, 10:43:46 AM »
Well duh girls, of course you have to also work out.  But let's be real -- do you or do you not think it wise for someone in their mid-50's to be taking steroids to that extent, and as someone with an older brother around that same age (OK, 51) who has worked out six days a week since he was 16 it's my opinion that Vergel takes more than what is prescribed normally for HIV wasting.  Anyway, he's claimed he's taken it for wasting for over 15 years -- come on.  I find him disturbing.

And another thing, one's seams in their shirts need not be about to burst to have a healthy body.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline denb45

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2011, 10:47:16 AM »
Well duh girls, of course you have to also work out.  But let's be real -- do you or do you not think it wise for someone in their mid-50's to be taking steroids to that extent, and as someone with an older brother around that same age (OK, 51) who has worked out six days a week since he was 16 it's my opinion that Vergel takes more than what is prescribed normally for HIV wasting.  Anyway, he's claimed he's taken it for wasting for over 15 years -- come on.  I find him disturbing.

And another thing, one's seams in their shirts need not be about to burst to have a healthy body.

That Guy looks like a FREAK too me  ??? I mean come on, he doesn't even look normal to me  ::)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline WillyWump

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2011, 10:54:47 AM »
Ahhh, Jackers...spent some time with him after an AIDSwalk NYC Fundraiser at Prohibition. Quite a nice guy, surprisingly quiet, of course body to die for. The following year got the royal snub :( thats ok Jacky, we'll always have those 42 minutes in '07.

-Will
(reformed groupie)
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
11-6-14 CD4- 871, UD
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2011, 11:08:06 AM »
And another thing, one's seams in their shirts need not be about to burst to have a healthy body.

Agreed. I also don't think you need to be thin to be fit. You can be carrying a few extra pounds and still be in good shape.

As I have said on here before, I am not a fan of steroids. Having a true medical condition where a doctor prescribes them is one thing. Taking them just to be muscular is not smart in my opinion. When I was training for the bodybuilding competition I realized how prevalent they are and how it is not even a secret. My trainer used them and there is an attitude with some people that unless you use steroids you will never be a serious bodybuilder. Natural bodybuilding is seen as niche.

In my unsubstantiated opinion when you start messing with your endocrine system without medical supervision you are just asking for trouble. For me the entire point of exercising is to be more healthy and shooting up stuff that someone in a back alley gives you isn't working toward that goal. Plus, if someone feels the need to go to those extremes in order to feel good about their body I think that belief needs to be examined.

That Guy looks like a FREAK too me  ??? I mean come on, he doesn't even look normal to me  ::)

Odd though it may seem, in bodybuilding looking like a freak is the point.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 11:23:20 AM by GSOgymrat »

Offline denb45

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2011, 11:16:13 AM »
No wonder you didn't notice any pain when you lost all your teeth.

 Sweetie  :-* crowns are attached to real teeth, and a lot of people have them, this isn't a bad thing  :D
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 11:23:49 AM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline mecch

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2011, 12:40:52 PM »
Gee, I was kinda scared I might get dissed for dissing that hunk.  But I see lots of people take such bodies with a splash of "reality check".

I think we can say, its a free world, people should do what they want and look they they they want and present themselves the way they want.  These guys personally dont bother me -- they both look interesting and hot too.

I meant to comment specifically on the OP's question if these kinds of men mean anything to the HIV's public image.  I think if such hyper masculine gay HIV+ images mean anything to a public seeing them, it's probably a plus, good news.

All the fakiness about it means something different, to me personally.  Reminds me of the pushiness of American urban life that I fled away from.  People and passions can get so extreme and sometimes a bit *irreal".
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 12:43:41 PM by mecch »
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2011, 12:48:27 PM »
Jack Mackenroth "hyper masculine"?  Really?  Is that with or without the purse falling out of his mouth?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls32TzxDM-0
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Dachshund

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2011, 12:57:59 PM »
All the fakiness about it means something different, to me personally.  Reminds me of the pushiness of American urban life that I fled away from.  People and passions can get so extreme and sometimes a bit *irreal".

God, could you be more pretentious? I always assumed you pulled a Polanski and fled America.

Offline mecch

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2011, 12:59:55 PM »
LOL.
I meant "masculinized" as in the muscles and stereotypical "hunkiness" - however queeny those of us with inside acclimated tastes might find it.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline MarcoPoz

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #36 on: March 01, 2011, 01:09:06 PM »
To the OP's question:

Many of us look fit and healthy.  Nope--you can't tell by looking.  Some of us are even athletes (and look like it) and don't use steriods.

My concern has been however, the way we often wrap HIV up in body image issues.  Getting old is natural  ;) and in my opinion, something all of us with HIV deserve to get.

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #37 on: March 01, 2011, 01:27:25 PM »
Jack Mackenroth "hyper masculine"?  Really?  Is that with or without the purse falling out of his mouth?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls32TzxDM-0

Wow, I didn't even recognize he was the contestant from Project Runway in that photo. I thought he was a fashion model I had never heard of.

Offline denb45

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #38 on: March 01, 2011, 01:43:56 PM »

Odd though it may seem, in bodybuilding looking like a freak is the point.

Naw ..no thanks, I'll keep my 185 -190lbs 6'3 large frame any day of the week, I'm fit for my age, and I still look good when I look in the mirror, and if you can beleive it, I auctually work-out in my home-gym 5 to 6 days a week, and YES Diet & Exercirse has a lot more to do with this than Steroids, so I'm in agreement with you on THIS , but come on now, when you cross that line of not looking natually fit, it looks kinda funny too me, kinda like the guys w/ NO dick who have to pump, to get it up, so they are stay hard  ;)
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 01:47:58 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #39 on: March 01, 2011, 03:10:22 PM »
Jack Mackenroth "hyper masculine"?  Really?  Is that with or without the purse falling out of his mouth?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ls32TzxDM-0

Jesus that photo was great but the demo reel killed my hardon.

Edit:  Oh and how about one of my favorite bands that I swear no one's ever heard of playing in the background?  Their music is so recognizable.

The Knife "Heartbeats"
http://vimeo.com/10377992
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 03:12:36 PM by Hellraiser »

Offline newt

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Re: The Bodies Of HIV/AIDS
« Reply #40 on: March 01, 2011, 04:30:59 PM »
Quote
Getting old is natural  ;) and in my opinion, something all of us with HIV deserve to get.

Well said

- matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

 


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