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Author Topic: What is going on in Wisconsin?  (Read 4043 times)

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Offline alliance

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  • hmmmm. . .
What is going on in Wisconsin?
« on: February 17, 2011, 11:29:16 PM »
npr report on major (25,000+) rally in Madison, Wisconsin protesting assault on public employees:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDcfqeIT0PA

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10/10/12   CD4=378  %=32   VL=UD
5/10/12     CD4=426  %=32  VL=UD
11/15/11   CD4=296  %=29  VL=UD(20)
6/15/11     CD4=345  %=29  VL=UD(38)
3/15/11     CD4=317  %=31  VL=UD
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Offline pozniceguy

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Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2011, 12:32:52 AM »
yup   watched the Governor try to justify the moves..., he has a hard row to hoe  trying to kill off the "collective bargaining"'   the big Unions will be all over him.... 

Nick
remember the good times...honor the past but don't live there
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Offline woodshere

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Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2011, 12:38:43 AM »
yup   watched the Governor try to justify the moves..., he has a hard row to hoe  trying to kill off the "collective bargaining"'   the big Unions will be all over him....  

Nick


The problem is that the unions of Wisconsin were not included in any discussion leading up to this bill. They realize that negotiations are necessary regarding pension and health plans, but to pass a bill that does away collective bargaining without any negotiation is what has everyone up in arms as well as the burden of solving the state budget crisis is put on their backs while the corporations and rich individuals are left alone. Sacrifice needs to be shared by all and not just the working class!  

Edited to add:  According to the Wisconsin State Journal, the state budget will actually have a surplus at the end of the fiscal year and the "crisis" is actually an effort to dismantle collective bargaining of public employees.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 10:38:54 AM by woodshere »
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Offline thunter34

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Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2011, 10:52:44 AM »
I'm curious to hear what is evil about workers having a power of collective bargaining?
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline Joe K

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Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2011, 11:02:12 AM »
Edited to add:  According to the Wisconsin State Journal, the state budget will actually have a surplus at the end of the fiscal year and the "crisis" is actually an effort to dismantle collective bargaining of public employees.

Ding, ding, ding and we have a winner! This is part of the Republican plan to save money, by putting the entire deficit reduction on the backs of unions and public workers. Same thing they are trying in DC and John Bohner, the Crier of the House, sees nothing wrong with throwing hundreds of thousands of public workers under the bus, to please his masters.

Online RapidRod

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Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2011, 03:32:14 PM »
They are doing the same thing here in Ohio. Ohio knows that the buget has to be gotten under control and aren't making as big a stink, but they are still protesting it in Columbus. In Ohio, Firefighters, State Patrol and Correction's Officers can't strike.

Offline Gio

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Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2011, 10:15:44 PM »
My thing on this whole issue is that these politicians are not concerned with the public but their pockets..If they were truly concerned about the budget they would cut their perks close the tax loopholes that so many corporations enjoy...  But i am glad this is happening..  This is a PR nightmare to the Republican Party and it only proves that they do not understand and are not listening...  I hope many begin to impeach those that they placed in office..  Its damm time that we took the politicians to task...  Sorry just frustrated that there seems to be no common sense coming from politicians 

Offline wolfter

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Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2011, 07:29:44 AM »
They are doing the same thing here in Ohio. Ohio knows that the buget has to be gotten under control and aren't making as big a stink, but they are still protesting it in Columbus. In Ohio, Firefighters, State Patrol and Correction's Officers can't strike.

Did we expect any less with Lord Kasich? 
productivity breeds content

Offline J.R.E.

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Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2011, 07:54:40 AM »
On prank call, Wis. governor discusses strategy
AP

   
MADISON, Wis. – On a prank call that quickly spread across the Internet, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker was duped into discussing his strategy to cripple public employee unions, promising never to give in and joking that he would use a baseball bat in his office to go after political opponents.

Walker believed the caller was a conservative billionaire named David Koch, but it was actually the editor of a liberal online newspaper. The two talked for at least 20 minutes — a conversation in which the governor described several potential ways to pressure Democrats to return to the Statehouse and revealed that his supporters had considered secretly planting people in pro-union protest crowds to stir up trouble.

The call, which surfaced Wednesday, also showed Walker's cozy relationship with two billionaire brothers who have poured millions of dollars into conservative political causes, including Walker's campaign last year.

Walker compared his stand to that taken by President Ronald Reagan when he fired the nation's air-traffic controllers during a labor dispute in 1981.

"That was the first crack in the Berlin Wall and led to the fall of the Soviets," Walker said on the recording.

The audio was posted by the Buffalo Beast, a left-leaning website based in Buffalo, N.Y., and quickly went viral.

Ian Murphy told The Associated Press he carried out the prank to show how candidly Walker would speak with Koch even though, according to Democrats, he refuses to return their calls.

Murphy said he arranged the call Tuesday after speaking with two Walker aides, including the governor's chief of staff. He placed the call using Skype and recorded it.

Walker spokesman Cullen Werwie confirmed that it was Walker's voice on the call. At a news conference, Walker acknowledged being deceived but stuck to his message that the union changes were needed to balance Wisconsin's budget.

"I'm not going to let one prank phone call be a distraction from the job we have to do," Walker said. "The things I said are the things I've said publicly all the time."

On the call, the governor said he was ratcheting up the pressure on Senate Democrats to return to the Capitol a week after they fled to block the legislation. He said he supported a move to require them to come to the Capitol to pick up their paychecks rather than have the money deposited directly.

He also floated an idea to lure Democratic senators back to the Capitol for negotiations and then have the Senate quickly pass the bill while they are in talks.

Walker said aides were reviewing whether the GOP could hold a vote if Democrats were not physically in the Senate chamber but elsewhere in the building. At the news conference, he insisted that idea was not a trick but an effort to get Democrats back to work.

Democrats seized on Walker's recorded comments as evidence that the governor plans to go beyond budget cuts to crushing unions.

"This isn't about balancing the budget. This is about a political war," Rep. Jon Richards of Milwaukee yelled Wednesday on the floor of the state Assembly.

The governor's plan would strip most public employees of their collective bargaining rights and force them to pay more for their health care and retirement benefits. Unions could not collect mandatory dues and would be forced to conduct annual votes of their members to stay in existence.

The proposal has set off more than a week of protests at the Capitol.

The GOP-controlled state Assembly began debating the bill Tuesday and was still hearing dozens of Democratic amendments nearly 24 hours later before taking a break. Assembly Speaker Jeff Fitzgerald said he expected to take a vote on the bill by the end of the day.

On the call, Walker said he expected the anti-union movement to spread across the country and he had spoken with the governors of Ohio and Nevada. The man pretending to be Koch seemed to agree, telling Walker, "You're the first domino."

"Yep, this is our moment," Walker responded.

The remarks showed Walker's private relationship with David Koch. He and his brother, Charles, own Koch Industries Inc., which is the largest privately-owned company in America and has significant operations in Wisconsin.

Its political action committee gave $43,000 to Walker's campaign, and David Koch gave $1 million to the Republican Governors' Association, which funded ads attacking Walker's opponent in last year's election.

The Kochs also give millions to support Americans For Prosperity, a conservative business group that launched a $320,000 television ad campaign in favor of Walker's legislation Wednesday. When the caller asked how he could help, Walker suggested outside groups could try to influence people to call their lawmakers and spread the message that his proposal is necessary.

On the recording, after Walker said he would be willing to meet with Democratic leaders, the caller said he should bring a baseball bat to negotiations.

Walker laughed and responded that he had "a slugger with my name on it."

The caller suggested he was thinking about "planting some troublemakers" among the protesters, and Walker said his administration had thought about doing that, too, but decided against it. Walker said the protests eventually would die because the media would stop covering them.

Walker told reporters the plan to bring in outside agitators was one of many ideas his supporters and aides have raised that were dismissed.

At the end of the call, the prankster says: "I'll tell you what, Scott, once you crush these bastards, I'll fly you out to Cali and really show you a good time."

"All right, that would be outstanding," Walker replies, adding that the standoff is "all about getting our freedoms back."

The caller responds: "Absolutely. And you know, we have a little bit of vested interest as well" and laughs.

Walker's budget bill also allows his administration to sell power plants that heat and cool state buildings to private companies without any bids.

Critics have seized on that provision, saying they are convinced the Koch brothers' business interests would be able to buy power plants on the cheap, and then profit by running them and driving up the price of energy.

Koch Industries has denied any interest in buying the plants. Republicans tried to privatize Wisconsin's power plants in 2005, but the plan was vetoed by Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle.

Immediately after taking office, Walker also pushed for legislation that would limit damage awards in lawsuits against many businesses.

Koch Industries lobbied for the bill, and Walker signed it into law last month. Walker is also seeking passage for another Koch Industries-backed bill to weaken state regulations by giving him the power to approve all rules proposed by agencies, a proposal that is moving quickly through the Legislature.

Koch Industries recently opened a lobbying office a block from the Capitol. Seven lobbyists have registered in Wisconsin to lobby for various Koch Industries companies.

Even before recordings of the call surfaced, the government watchdog group Common Cause in Wisconsin released a statement saying Walker's agenda matched with that of Koch Industries.

"Koch Industries and other corporate citizens have legitimate interests in Wisconsin, but their demonstrated willingness to push large amounts of money into state politics has given them a dangerously outsized voice," said Bob Edgar, the group's national president. That voice, he said, is "now demanding a return on its investments."

___

Associated Press Writer Scott Bauer contributed to this report.
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Offline AlanBama

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Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2011, 10:57:55 AM »
I loved it that they played that prank phone call on the news last night.    We need to continually "call 'em out" for what they are...pawns of corporate America. 

I saw on CNN this morning that other states' workers are protesting in support of the Wisconsin workers.
Of course, in this ass-backwards State, they are protesting in SUPPORT of the union busters.....and probably the hicks protesting haven't got two nickels to rub together.....
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline denb45

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Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2011, 11:25:56 AM »
I'm curious to hear what is evil about workers having a power of collective bargaining?

I'm a former Teamster of local 439, I was in the union for 20 yrs. Collective bargaining = better wages, health-care, and days off in a given work yr.  the EVIL that you speak of, is when companies try to take that
away, and CHEAT workers outta what they are due, but I find nothing wrong or evil about Collective bargaining  ;)
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 11:27:56 AM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Joe K

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Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2011, 12:45:02 PM »
I'm curious to hear what is evil about workers having a power of collective bargaining?

There is nothing evil about collective bargaining and in fact, unions have been very good for America. Many of the benefits, that every American worker enjoys, were first obtained through union contracts. The idea of a 40-hour work week, sick pay, vacations, benefits, etc., were all a result of union benefits, that eventually were made to cover every American worker. But what bothers me more, is the fact that a legislature, can simply overturn any contract they do not like, because this is a case involving contract law as well. If they get away with this, what is to stop any legislature, from simply voting to void a contract, reached in good faith, just because they can?

What I find really disgusting in Wisconsin, is that the state had a surplus in January, which was quickly given away, by Walker & Co, in the form of tax breaks to business and all of sudden there is a financial crisis. And to solve that crisis, even after the union accepted the demands of higher contributions for health care and pensions, requires stripping the union of collective bargaining rights? These are the acts of people who will stop at nothing to obtain power and they may soon well regret their actions.

If these trends continue, I could see a "class" war developing, because the average American is already so beaten down and you know what they say about the straw and the camel.

Offline pozniceguy

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Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2011, 12:50:22 PM »
I certainly agree with the power of collective bargaining for any group,  the assumption is that both parties to the issues will represent their constituents best interest...   at least one idea that has taken hold in the places where "collective bargaining"  for public sector employees is not allowed  or is restricted to certain issues   concerns the unevenness of the positions of the "union" vs the  government agency  representatives  ( almost always   government employees)
there seems to be a very strong tendency to side with the "union"  on expensive benefits... significantly more so that private negotiations of "unions" vs the "company"

some of the issues as stated frequently  are the lopsided contribution to health insurance and pension plans which lead to  very long term future commitments for  funding .   the "equivalent pay  for equivalent jobs"  seems to be not an issue   private vs government rates are at least close to parity. The other issue seems to be one of "service"  the government agencies are  not structured to be "profitable"  they are created to provide service to the taxpayers  therefore any money spent to provide them comes from tax payers..... so any commitments are tax payer commitments with open ended funding.... as the tax revenues fall  and the pay rolls continue.... there is less money to pay the employees  so either   the number of employees has to decrease or the taxes/revenue has to increase to pay them...(  devils bargain)

I don't see any good outcome to this discussion....no matter which way you go taxpayers will take a hit...choose your poison  !!!

Nick
« Last Edit: February 24, 2011, 12:53:23 PM by pozniceguy »
remember the good times...honor the past but don't live there
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Offline AlanBama

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Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2011, 03:29:50 PM »
My Dad was a union executive for many years, in Plumbers & Pipefitters; his brother was a big union boss in the Tire & Rubberworkers Union; my own brother is the area rep. for teachers in the Alabama Education Association (Teachers' Union).   I come from a BIG union family.

They are waking a sleeping dragon if they keep messing with the unions....as Joe says, there's the straw, and then there's the LOG that will break the camel's back.....people have just about had it.
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2011, 09:47:01 PM »
What I find really disgusting in Wisconsin, is that the state had a surplus in January, which was quickly given away, by Walker & Co, in the form of tax breaks to business and all of sudden there is a financial crisis..

In fairness, this wasn't really the issue.  The surplus was was in a different budget year and was a tiny fraction of the deficit in the budget the following year.  Whether or not they made the business tax changes the state still would have faced a budget deficit that rounded to pretty much the same amount.

And to solve that crisis, even after the union accepted the demands of higher contributions for health care and pensions, requires stripping the union of collective bargaining rights? These are the acts of people who will stop at nothing to obtain power and they may soon well regret their actions.
This is the outrageous part to me.  And if you listen to the other states he isn't getting much support even from other Republican governors on this tactic.  Let's hope he gets called out on this and impeached!


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Offline tednlou2

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Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2011, 12:46:42 AM »
My republican friends are on Facebook acting like they don't care about the issue.  They claim to be very upset about the Dems leaving the state.  They are saying things like..if they left their jobs, they'd be fired.  I've seen this exact thing said on Faux News.  I can always tell when they are just repeating talking points.  I tried to calmly debate the issue before her friends came in and totally went nuclear.     

     

Offline Dachshund

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Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2011, 09:00:06 AM »
Americans may not fully grasp what is at stake here, but we fail to do so at our peril. Unions have made mistakes, but they are the only defense that workers have.
Without viable unions to serve as a counterweight to corporate power, America's working people and their families are at the mercy of the largest and most powerful economic organizations on the planet.

Offline bmancanfly

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Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2011, 10:09:46 AM »
The Republicans are using the financial crisis as a union busting tactic.

Plaul Krugman says it well in todays column,  it's a short one worth reading;

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/25/opinion/25krugman.html

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt."

 Bertrand Russell

Offline Jody

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Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2011, 10:36:41 PM »
Did you hear the one about the CEO, the Tea Party activist and the unionized employee sitting at a table and there is a plate with twelve cookies on it.  The CEO grabs eleven of the cookies and then leans over and whispers to the Tea Partier "Watch out that union bum wants to take half of your cookie."

Jody ???
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Offline Hellraiser

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Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2011, 05:49:29 AM »
Did you hear the one about the CEO, the Tea Party activist and the unionized employee sitting at a table and there is a plate with twelve cookies on it.  The CEO grabs eleven of the cookies and then leans over and whispers to the Tea Partier "Watch out that union bum wants to take half of your cookie."

Jody ???

Very good analogy of the situation.

Offline alliance

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  • hmmmm. . .
Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2011, 01:37:54 PM »
Sorry to load up with a bunch of links. I find this all very fascinating, and this discussion here is awesome!

2 1/2 minute video of Madison Wisconsin rally

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeHahlFxy0c

tactics seem to be changing now that the greedy ones apparently rammed the bill through using what some would call questionable procedural manuvers :

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-Scott-Walker-Contributors/101624709918554?sk=info

http://www.facebook.com/eyeonmandi

http://eyeonmandi.com/

Efforts also seemed to be focused on the ballot box, with an important election coming April 6, along with many recalls to be processed shortly after that.

It seems to me that the longer this drags out, more and  more people realize that

worker's rights = civil rights = human rights


and people who dont care  for one usually dont care for the other.

People are discovering shared values and interests:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSpgNm9YxNY

"The influence of each human being on others in this life is a kind of immortality."
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5/10/12     CD4=426  %=32  VL=UD
11/15/11   CD4=296  %=29  VL=UD(20)
6/15/11     CD4=345  %=29  VL=UD(38)
3/15/11     CD4=317  %=31  VL=UD
12/1/10     CD4=315  %=28  VL=UD
8/11/10     CD4=250  %=25  VL=UD
6/10/10     CD4=380  %=24  VL=UD
3/4/10       CD4=340  %=22   VL=UD
1/11/10     CD4=312  %=22   VL =130
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Offline newt

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Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2011, 04:55:07 PM »
Given that heart attack recovery is better in unionised hospitals, I am rather in favour of unions. - matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

Offline denb45

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Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2011, 08:00:04 PM »
Given that heart attack recovery is better in unionised hospitals, I am rather in favour of unions. - matt

newt..........me too, speaking as a former Teamster Union member for 20yrs.  ;)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline DanMo

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Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2011, 08:20:40 PM »
The republicans can say in their campaigns that they care about reducing the deficit all they want, but when you look at the actual legislation that they are passing all over the country in the State legislatures, one can see that they don't care about the deficit at all!

Many republican state legislatures want to cut all sorts of social services, supposedly to offset the deficit, but what they don't emphasize is all the tax breaks they're giving to businesses. So they cut social services and then use that money to cut taxes in other areas. The deficit remains unfixed!
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05 Apr 11 - 355 (21%) / VL: 186,054
27 Apr 11 - 390 (20%) / VL: 285,095
06 Jun 11 - 298 (19%) / VL:  78,380
01 Aug 11 - > STARTED ATRIPLA <
30 Aug 11 - 699 (31%) / VL: 1,938
03 Nov 11 -                / VL: 645
27 Dec 11 - 559 (35%) / VL: 1,189
11 Jan 12 -                 / VL: <20
09 Apr 12 - 686 (40%) / VL: UD
11 Jul 12 - 793 (37%) / VL: 25

Offline hope_for_a_cure

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,502
Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2011, 06:53:20 PM »
Dane County Circuit Judge Maryann Sumi issued a temporary restraining order today, barring the publication of a controversial new law that would sharply curtail collective bargaining for public employees.  (Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel)

Offline alliance

  • Member
  • Posts: 159
  • hmmmm. . .
Re: What is going on in Wisconsin?
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2011, 08:01:29 PM »
Wisconsin Governor targets gay community: (should we be surprised?)

http://politicsreport.com/news/governor-walker-targets-gay-community


brought to you by: the Koch brothers (catchy jingle!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbykzqJ6ens&feature=player_embedded#at=62






« Last Edit: May 18, 2011, 08:10:53 PM by alliance »
"The influence of each human being on others in this life is a kind of immortality."
10/10/12   CD4=378  %=32   VL=UD
5/10/12     CD4=426  %=32  VL=UD
11/15/11   CD4=296  %=29  VL=UD(20)
6/15/11     CD4=345  %=29  VL=UD(38)
3/15/11     CD4=317  %=31  VL=UD
12/1/10     CD4=315  %=28  VL=UD
8/11/10     CD4=250  %=25  VL=UD
6/10/10     CD4=380  %=24  VL=UD
3/4/10       CD4=340  %=22   VL=UD
1/11/10     CD4=312  %=22   VL =130
11/30/09   CD4=228  %=19  VL=1726
11/20/09    started atripla
10/15/09   CD4=281  %=18   VL=85,000

 


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