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Author Topic: Sometimes Things Can Grow Too Big  (Read 3548 times)

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Offline greatcyber

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Sometimes Things Can Grow Too Big
« on: September 11, 2006, 10:05:07 AM »
It's a sad testament that sometimes, something that is good and serves as a vehicle of peace and contentment for some can grow into one big horrible mess.  Perhaps that is what has happened with the merging of Aidsmeds and Poz.  Both were fine on their own and I personally got a lot out of both.

First, I would like to recount the kind of experience I had in Montreal:

It was so nice to meet new people and, of course, to see those that we had met the year before in Toronto.
I'm sorry, but I can't remember everyone's names, my short-term memory is just not really there all the time.  But-Claude was a marvelous GENTLEMAN and was a joy to be around.  Of course, Jan is one great big sweetheart and does not waver from that.  It was a pleasure to meet her friend, Jen.  What a character!  We had a lot of fun together.  Bailey, you were fun to be around, a little outrageous and put a smile on my face more than once.  Shane, a really nice guy that seemed to get along with everyone.  Alan, also a sweet man.  Moffie, you are our friend and will stay that for some time to come.  Suzette, you are a zany chick that I truly enjoyed spending time with.  You have soooo much energy!  Zephyr was as kind as anyone could want.  Lisa was a fun-loving soul who just seemed to let loose her pent up energy and have a ball.  Jonathan, you are as beautiful to look at as you are on the inside, bless you.  Ric & Thom, thank you for allowing us to share in your special day, you brought back memories of our own special day.  David & David, you guys are on the right track, please stay that way.  It was nice to see Herman, even if he did bring unwanted drama to the group with his antics, but that is his business.  To those I can't remember right now, please know that I didn't have an unpleasant moment during the entire trip.

Now, as for the sniping and grousing that seems to be going on in other threads, come on people, get a grip on yourselves.  You are all way too ol to be acting this way.  Some of you have expressed disdain at the way the trip was handled, where we stayed, the activities involved, etc.  When you have as many as 40 people involved in something, there is NO way you can please everyone every time.  The fact of the matter that the majority of the group were gay shouldn't have been an issue.  Trish, while it was wonderful seeing you and it was nice to meet John, you didn't seem too uncomfortable to me.  Even when John was having his foot massaged by the male waiter at dinner.  If you hadn't been there, I could have believed that he was gay, too.  While we were on the periphery of the gay village on both trips, there was an entire city out there, that was not a part of the village that was yours to explore and enjoy.  The simple truth is that most gay men do not want to spend their money or time in a hetero bar.  Why should we? 

Whenever you are in a bar, you are going to see SOMETHING that can bother SOMEONE.  Any whenever people are drinking more than socially, there will always be something that others can be bothered by.  I would suggest that if you take offense easily, you simply skip the parts of the trip that take place in a bar.  I don't see any reason why the straight folks in the group couldn't simply have gone to a straight bar if they felt like it.  We were right on top of a metro station, for God's sake.

If there was this much hurt feelings this year after the fact, I would suggest that the straight members go on a hetero poz cruise.  Or start planning now for something that might fit your needs.  I personally would never go on a trip that was geared to a straight audience.  I simply don't have to.

As for the forums, I don't know what happened last night, I read and read, but could find nothing that jumped out at me, but my husband was EXTREMELY upset about something that happened here.  It was not the first time.  I had taken a nap and when I awoke, he was mute and stayed that way all night.  Not the first time, either.  But I want it to be the last time.  I'm afraid that he is too sensitive for some of the folks on here.  Maybe we just need to find another site, I don't know.  All I know is that I love him and will protect him and our relationship at all costs.  He has been upset in the past by people from the forum calling our home and saying things that he just doesn't need to hear.  I want it to stop.

I realize that Joe is a giving type of person, and I think I'm lucky to be sharing life with someone like that.  Others seem to take advantage of that and play him for their own personal issues.  I know he has a lot to offer, so I am asking you forum members as well as him directly, to stop even reading the forums, with the exception of the newly diagnosed.  I know he can help reach a lot of people in need.  But the rest of you should know better.  I don't want the calls to the house that upset him anymore.  I believe he can say what he has to say in his blog, if you care to read it.

As for the next meeting, with the potential for it to be even bigger, I don't believe that it is something I want us to be involved in.  Sorry.  The original idea of some positive folks getting together for a good time seems to have changed in nature to something that drives others that were not even involved in the beginning anyway.  I say good luck to you.  Put something together and then go and enjoy yourselves.  But don't expect to be seeing us there.

I hope you can all be mature enough to honour my wishes.  Joe is mine, and I will vehemently protect his emotional well being.  Not seeing some of you will be contrary to the way he and I feel, but I believe, in the end, it is for the best.

If some of you guys spend half the amount of time in your local areas working at an ASO, or starting a support group instead of living in this forum, your lives might just be richer.  I wish you all the best.  Stephen
Perform a Random Act of Kindness Today...

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Offline Alain

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Re: Sometimes Things Can Grow Too Big
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2006, 11:28:12 AM »
.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2006, 06:01:32 PM by cowandalehouse »

Offline greatcyber

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Re: Sometimes Things Can Grow Too Big
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2006, 12:36:46 PM »
I'm sorry, Alain, but I don't think you do hear me loud and clear.  What I was stating is that we DID have a great time in Montreal.  It is all the petty crap that is going on now, after the fact, that bothers me so much, as it also appears to be having an effect on my husband.  I don't understand why concerns couldn't have been brought up during the trip, when they could have made a difference.  Now it is only sniping.  I DO wish everyone well.  Yes, the idea of the gatherings was supposed to be for all types of people with something in common to come together.  But, apparently that isn't exactly what happened, if you read what has been occurring in other threads.  If there was such hard feelings, then I feel that others can make accommodations for smaller group gatherings that are tailorered to their own tastes and wants.

My main point, however, is that mental health is more important than hypocrisy.

Honestly, you guys can have these forums and I hope you get what you want out of them.  I doubt I will ever feel comfortable with them again.  If any of you guys take offense, then I'm sorry.  Simply stating my opinion and protecting my relationship, which will be here longer than this forum will contain so many rumblings.  It's just too bad, thats all I was saying.
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Offline Alain

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Re: Sometimes Things Can Grow Too Big
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2006, 04:45:50 PM »
.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2006, 06:00:57 PM by cowandalehouse »

Offline anniebc

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Re: Sometimes Things Can Grow Too Big
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2006, 06:45:45 AM »
Dearest Stephen

All this has upset me and saddened me beyond words..so all I want to say at this stage is, if you and Joe ever decide to take a vacation in Vegas, then give me a call.. ;)... the very idea of not seeing you guys again is something I can't handle right now.

Hugs and love to you both
Jan :'(

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Offline Moffie65

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Re: Sometimes Things Can Grow Too Big
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2006, 10:28:55 AM »
Hi Stephen, and Joe,

This is by far the most disturbing thread I have read since the Montreal Meet.  Not because it announces some very disturbing behavior from the members of this forum, but because Stephen and Joe are knocking down the barriers of Political Correctness, (something that neither of them do often or willingly) and letting us all know the unvarnished truth about some very disturbing behaviour that has gone on Post-trip.

As you two have obviously noted, Moffie has been absent from most of these very interesting but disturbing threads, due mainly to the fact that I hurt so much when I read of misunderstandings, unmet expectations and a general lack of respect for many of the members of this forum.  This Website is one of the only ones that I check into on a regular basis in my favorites, due mainly to the fact that I have a very busy life, which I choose to have.  I come here and share with folks, give my opinion and then move on.  What "Gathering" has done, is not unexpected for me.  We all communicate through a medium that hides a persons eyes, gives us not one shred of vocal tonality, and further hides people's real intent through hundreds of thousands of keystrokes that may lead us into a path or view that the author never intended for us to see or interpret.

Be that as it may, I am saddened by the post events of this trip, and feel very strongly that if this event is ever going to last, then there must be "Leadership", there must be structure, and there must be a financial accounting and financial source that will cover some of the more touchy things which are going to inevitably raise their ugly head. 

Stephen and Joe, I am glad that I can call you friends in the truest sense of that word, and I look foward to our future adventures together or apart, but I consider myself very fortunate to be a part of your lives and you both have enriched my experience on this trip.  For that I thank both of you from the bottom of my heart.

In Love.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

Offline greatcyber

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Re: Sometimes Things Can Grow Too Big
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2006, 07:21:03 PM »
Dearest Forum Members,

I am truly sorry for the hurt that I seemed to have caused.  Yes, sometimes I can be intolerant.  That is unfortunate.  Fortunately, Joe has mostly been able to curb that in me during the past.  My problem has been that it seems that there has been so much dissention since the meet.  I thought we all had a nice time while we were there.  In fact, a very good time.

While I realize that everyone has an opinion and there are so many different emotions at play, sometimes I find that I strike back before I have had a chance to think.  Joe has advised me that in fact, there was nothing that happened on the forums the other night that upset him.  It seems that it is just one of his emotional episodes that he has been dealing with for quite some time.  Naturally, my first instinct was to rush to his aid and defense.  I truly didn't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers, really.  Alain, I know you are a just and honourable man, and I appreciate your candor.  Jan, I would never want to intentionally inflict any emotional distress on you, you mean so much to both of us.

I would never have a problem with a meet that wasn't near a gay village, however, I just wouldn't want to be involved with things that are going on in a straight bar, that's all I meant to convey.  Yes, as a group, it is an incredible thing that we have been able to all come together as a unit with a common thread among us.  I believe that is a very powerful thing and I realize that perhaps many are not as fortunate as we are to live in an area where the is tons of support for HIV/AIDS.  Again, I'm sorry for the way I came off.

But I do reiterate, that in the past, there have been several times that Joe has become extremely upset over members of the forum, and that is something that I ask all of you to bear in mind in future dealings with him.  He has been sufferring from depression for well over a decade and is only lately starting to be strong again, and it is my place to be right at his side supporting him.

I would lile tp siuggest, that in future meets, some functions be planned where sexual identity does not even come into play, such as going to Cirque du Soleil, or something such as that.  There could be a movie night.  There could also be something like girls night out and boys night out.  That way, it seems it would be more equitable to everyone involved and noone would be slighted in any way.

I also have to admit, that I have been rather stressed since yesterday as I was just informed that I am going to have spinal fusion surgery in 3 weeks, fusing L3 through S1.  Needless to say, I'm comforted that I will be able to have some relief from the pain I have endured the past 9 years, however, as a mere human, I have also succombed to rather a lot of fear of the unknown.  Couple this on top of our house being for sale and our impending move to a new country in perhaps as short as 3 months.  Not an excuse, just letting you know where my head is at.

Bottom line:  I respect you all and realize that you all deserve hapiness as much as anyone.  And understanding.  But maybe the meets still need a little tweaking, with trying out a few new things first, such as a couple of smaller, more regional meets with those of similar tastes and desires.

Now that I have tried to explain myself, I do hope that you will take it with the intent that was meant in the beginning, even if I struggled to explain myself too well.  I also think that if maybe Joe takes a few steps backward for a while, others can step up to the plate and dive in there with their own suggestions and spend their time for the group's behalf.  We need to regroup for a while and tend to our move.

Thanks for listening.  And again, I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings.  Cordially, Stephen
Perform a Random Act of Kindness Today...

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Offline Joe K

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Re: Sometimes Things Can Grow Too Big
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2006, 08:03:46 PM »
Another example of why I love this man so much.  His sometimes coarse manner aside, he writes what he believes and every word just reaffirms his love for me.  As far as I see these issues, they will be remembered and addressed for the next event and all the rest is just fluff.

Sometimes it takes an outsider to bring clarity to internal upheaval, but we all know that we will adjust and move on.  Nothing will ever change what we feel for each other and I suppose when we stop bickering is when we might want to check those pulses.

Either way, bumps in the road are fine when you have the right companion.  And I really like the fact that someone loves me enough to look out for my well being.  Very nice feeling indeed.

I am forever lucky, I still have the man who makes my heart smile.

Offline Ann

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Re: Sometimes Things Can Grow Too Big
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2006, 07:31:44 AM »
Hi Stephen,

Thank you very much for coming back to clarify. I appreciate your effort from the point of view of being a moderator, but I appreciate it all the more from the point of view of simply being another human being on this rollercoaster ride called life.

Joe, you are a lucky man. ;)

Good luck Stephen, with your upcoming surgery and good luck to the both of you with the sale and move.

Ann
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Offline David_CA

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Re: Sometimes Things Can Grow Too Big
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2006, 08:03:43 AM »
Like Ann said, it's good that people (Stephen, in this case) clarify their posts.  What would also be good is to realize that times when one is angry, really stressed, or whatever is NOT the time to post a message that will upset folks. It only serves to stir up crap and make one look ... dramatic.

David
« Last Edit: September 14, 2006, 09:37:36 PM by David_NC »
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Offline Alain

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Re: Sometimes Things Can Grow Too Big
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2006, 08:06:20 AM »
.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2006, 09:03:02 PM by cowandalehouse »

Offline Jody

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Re: Sometimes Things Can Grow Too Big
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2006, 08:20:40 AM »
Long live Joe and Stephen...In good health and in happiness for all the days of their lives !!!

Jody  :)
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Offline Moffie65

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Re: Sometimes Things Can Grow Too Big
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2006, 12:21:18 PM »
feel very strongly that if this event is ever going to last, then there must be "Leadership", there must be structure, and there must be a financial accounting and financial source that will cover some of the more touchy things which are going to inevitably raise their ugly head. 

Hey guys,

I stated this in the above post, and on the surface, actually said the wrong thing.  I was basicly trying to say that instead of "Leadership"; structure, guidelines for behavior, and things like that.  We have been blessed with the most talented and gifted leadership in the past two gatherings that we could ever expect or acquire.  No I mean we need rules of engagement, which will outline what is the expected behavior for the whole group.  Lastly, we have had no end of capable accounting and the grants committees have done a stellar job at making sure that those that needed help were given that help.  What I was referring to is the fact that we are a celebration of life when we gather, and there is a pot of Pharma money out there that needs to be tapped, so that any who are interested in attending one of these events, will not have to come to their compadres here on the forums to seek help for their needs.  This way, a scholarship committee could review requests for assistance, and then approach one, or all, of the drug companies to get some help in our "Celebration of Life" that they benifit so from.

Sorry for any misunderstanding.  I feel so very blessed to be in the presence of those that have given so unselfishly to the cause of making this grassroots event, grow and now flourish.

Thank you.

In Love.
The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,
and 362 to heterosexuals.
This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals,
It's just that they need more supervision.
Lynn Lavne

 


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