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Author Topic: I can't believe this  (Read 5056 times)

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Offline madbrain

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I can't believe this
« on: January 27, 2011, 08:04:10 PM »
Last week, after a 2010 of not having much sex with my bf, I decided to start the year differently and be a bad boy again on MLK day (1/17) as I was home alone.

I hooked up with a guy online. He knew my status before we exchanged phone numbers. I picked him up in the POZ mobile and we went to the house. I fucked him in the sauna with a condom. Unfortunately, despite using plenty of lube, the condom broke :( I don't know what I can say about that except that it seems to happen far more frequently than it should :( I pulled out when the condom broke. I hadn't cum yet, but I had precum as usual. I finished on his chest and he did on mine. I wasn't very worried about transmission, given that I have had an undetectable VL for almost a year. I had gone to the lab the very day before the sex, on 1/16. I got my result earlier this week and sure enough, my VL was undetectable again .

It turns out this guy and I had more affinities than just just one-time sex, and I kept in touch with him. He was a professional concert pianist and had played the piano brilliantly at the house. He also had another serious illness, a stage 4 leukemia for which he was given 6 months to live, 2 months ago. He was seriously sick. The day after we had sex he got sicker, vomiting a lot. But this wasn't an unusual event for him with the cancer and the meds that he takes. I started to get worried and told him it might be HIV seroconversion, even though it was very unlikely given my undetectable VL. He dismissed it and said it was the cancer. I told him over lunch about the PEP and that he might want to go to the ER and see a doc about it before the 72 hrs window was up. He didn't go then. In the evening, he ended up in the ER with more vomiting. This was all still within the 72 hour PEP window. He mentioned the HIV exposure there, but the ER doctors didn't prescribe PEP to him. They did draw his blood and run HIV tests however.

I met him again today. He said that the HIV test came back positive. He was told that he had a wild type virus, though he didn't know what that meant, but I know that this matches my own HIV genotype, no resistance. He has too many white blood cells due to his leukemia and the docs said he doesn't need HIV treatment yet. He said his last HIV test was 6 months ago and negative, and I was the first person he had sex with since his ex at that time.  I am not sure I believe that, but I feel very lousy. I am having a hard time believing that I could have transmitted the virus, being undetectable for 9 months, and having tested UD the day before the sex. Also having a hard time believing his test could show positive in 48 hours. And lastly, a bit surprised that he got a genotype back already in 9 days. I will make sure the genotypes get compared in detail so that we can figure out if they match. If precum and a broken condom is enough to transmit HIV even with undetectable VL, then I really don't know what kind of sex is safe anymore.

Offline thunter34

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2011, 08:24:17 PM »
Christmas on a cracker.  You've already had lots of trick drama in the past, and infected your BF by playing around in the first place.

At this point, I think I'd opt to just plunk on some porn and masturbate.

Come to think of it, I do.
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline madbrain

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2011, 08:32:14 PM »

At this point, I think I'd opt to just plunk on some porn and masturbate.

Come to think of it, I do.

Believe me, I have been doing a lot of that, but it's not good enough for all 365 days of the year.


Offline thunter34

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2011, 08:40:43 PM »
Believe me, I have been doing a lot of that, but it's not good enough for all 365 days of the year.



Does your "BF" not have any sex with you at all anymore?

I dunno...after your having contracted chlamydia, gonnorhea and HIV and passing it along - well, you just don't seem to have very much fuck luck. 
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline madbrain

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2011, 09:37:07 PM »
Does your "BF" not have any sex with you at all anymore?

It's down to very little, he always has a reason not to and never initiates.

Quote
I dunno...after your having contracted chlamydia, gonnorhea and HIV and passing it along - well, you just don't seem to have very much fuck luck. 

Yes you could say that :(

The guy just fessed up to having done IDU in the last 6 months and sharing needles. Looks like I'm not responsible after all.

Offline thunter34

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2011, 10:02:47 PM »
I had gone to the lab the very day before the sex, on 1/16. I got my result earlier this week and sure enough, my VL was undetectable again .


You went to the lab for blood draws on SUNDAY, January 16th...the day before a national holiday?

Wow...where do you go to the doctor?
AIDS isn't for sissies.

Offline xman

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2011, 11:07:02 PM »
it is extremely unlikely that he get infected from you since the exposure was recent and he had seroconversion sympthoms only one day after exposure. chances are that he indeed had sex before meeting you and that he catched the virus in this occasions. being undetectable poses a theoretically risk of transmission which is very close to zero. additionally in your case only precum was involved staying to your description. also part of the intercourse was protected as you reported.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 11:11:08 PM by xman »
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Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2011, 11:23:04 PM »
Strange and unlikely story. 
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline mecch

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2011, 03:33:36 AM »
it is extremely unlikely that he get infected from you since the exposure was recent and he had seroconversion sympthoms only one day after exposure. chances are that he indeed had sex before meeting you and that he catched the virus in this occasions. being undetectable poses a theoretically risk of transmission which is very close to zero. additionally in your case only precum was involved staying to your description. also part of the intercourse was protected as you reported.

I agree. Something smells rotten in Denmark.  You didn't infect this guy and since when do people have seroconversion illness the next day?  Ok maybe both are those are possible when hell freezes over, and its been a cold winter....

Really I am surprised at you for believing you are responsible.

Secondly, if the sexual relationship can't be fixed with the bf, is that the future you want? tricking? is he really your bf?  He might be thinking you are just a friend now. Or you might be.

Also, "unsual" high rates of condom breakage?   My ex started claiming that a few years before he finally seroconverted and I think in retrospect it was something else entirely than condom breakage.  

So what I am not so gently wondering is if you are aware you have mentioned three different situations in one post in which the some truth seems to be being avoided?  What do you think about that possibility?

« Last Edit: January 28, 2011, 03:45:38 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Ann

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2011, 07:43:59 AM »
Mad, I've moved your thread from the "Someone I Care About" forum to the Living forum. The Someone forum is a place where hiv negative people can discuss and ask advice about people in their lives who have hiv. Living is the appropriate forum for your topic.

You are not responsible for this man's infection. The symptoms that sometimes accompany seroconversion illness do not come on the next day, they take two to three weeks to develop.

It takes between two and four weeks for enough antibodies to be formed in order to trigger a positive antibody result. This man was positive before your condom broke.

Another thing - "wild type" is not a genotype. It is a term generally used to describe a virus that has no resistance to any meds. Not having resistance is not a genotype.

And by the way, if you're always having condoms break despite using plenty of lube, there are two or three possibilities as to the cause of the breakages.

Not ensuring there is no air bubble in the tip. This happens easily with reservoir tips, so pinch the tip while putting it on and give it a stroke from top to bottom to pull the tip against the head so you can see if there's air in there or not. Air bubbles are probably the leading cause of condom breakage. (or tied for first with not using enough lube)

Using out-of-date condoms. Latex degrades with age.

Incorrect storage. Extreme temperatures degrade latex, especially heat. Do not store condoms in your wallet or near heat sources or in your car.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Dachshund

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2011, 07:59:08 AM »

You went to the lab for blood draws on SUNDAY, January 16th...the day before a national holiday?

Wow...where do you go to the doctor?


Testify

Offline madbrain

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2011, 02:25:31 PM »

You went to the lab for blood draws on SUNDAY, January 16th...the day before a national holiday?

Wow...where do you go to the doctor?


I didn't go to the doctor, I only went to the lab. And it is open until 4pm on sundays. I like to go there on weekends since I work weekdays. I was due for my 3 months lab so I went for my regular draw 2 weeks ago.
https://members.kaiserpermanente.org/kpweb/facilitydir/facility.do?id=100305&rop=MRN#anchor19

Offline madbrain

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2011, 02:44:38 PM »
since when do people have seroconversion illness the next day?  Ok maybe both are those are possible when hell freezes over, and its been a cold winter....

I don't know if it's possible to seroconvert the next day, I came to this forum to inquire, see the subject of the post.

Quote
Secondly, if the sexual relationship can't be fixed with the bf, is that the future you want? tricking? is he really your bf?  He might be thinking you are just a friend now. Or you might be.

He is really my bf, we sleep together, live together, etc... We haven't been able to fix the sex part. Even with doctors help.

Quote
Also, "unsual" high rates of condom breakage?   My ex started claiming that a few years before he finally seroconverted and I think in retrospect it was something else entirely than condom breakage.  

Well, this is first hand experience and I can only report what I have seen happen, heard pop, etc.  All I can say is that I have had several breakages before, and vs the total number of condoms used, it is a higher proportion than 2-3% .

Quote
So what I am not so gently wondering is if you are aware you have mentioned three different situations in one post in which the some truth seems to be being avoided?  What do you think about that possibility?

Everything that I reported first hand is my experience, I didn't bend the truth. It was hard enough for me to write this post, I wouldn't make up a story like this. What I was unsure about is the cause of my friend's positive test.

Offline madbrain

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2011, 03:02:22 PM »
Ann,

You are not responsible for this man's infection.
The symptoms that sometimes accompany seroconversion illness do not come on the next day, they take two to three weeks to develop.
It takes between two and four weeks for enough antibodies to be formed in order to trigger a positive antibody result. This man was positive before your condom broke.

Thanks, I feel much better now.

Quote
Another thing - "wild type" is not a genotype. It is a term generally used to describe a virus that has no resistance to any meds. Not having resistance is not a genotype.

I understand that "wild type" doesn't define a particular genotype, but isn't a genotype test required in order to determine that the virus has no resistance, though ?

Quote
Not ensuring there is no air bubble in the tip. This happens easily with reservoir tips, so pinch the tip while putting it on and give it a stroke from top to bottom to pull the tip against the head so you can see if there's air in there or not. Air bubbles are probably the leading cause of condom breakage. (or tied for first with not using enough lube)

Using out-of-date condoms. Latex degrades with age.

Incorrect storage. Extreme temperatures degrade latex, especially heat. Do not store condoms in your wallet or near heat sources or in your car.

Thanks. It's possible that one last week was expired. I checked my drawer today and found a few that were, others that were still OK for a few years. I never knew about the air bubble issue.

Offline mecch

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2011, 09:25:27 PM »
Thanks for the direct response. Im glad to see you have a clear head on these matters and that my post was just dark thoughts.  I hope you get some progress on the bf front soon!
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline tednlou2

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2011, 12:39:30 AM »
First, I want to say thank you for being honest about your sex life.  Many of us, including myself, want to lie and act like we have always been faithful.  I have not always been, but I have lied about it.  From reading the posts here, it sounds like you've been very open about your sex life--which is good.  If someone is going to talk about something, then they should just lay it all out there.  My partner is like yours.  He rarely has interest in sex.  This has been the case for years.  He says it is probably due to the meds he takes for migraines and lipids.  He also wants to get his testosterone tested. 

As I was reading your post, I began to think this guy was already poz.  I was surprised that he wasn't concerned about a condom failure with someone known to be poz.  I would think many would have some concern about this--it would just be natural.  Did you push for the condom?  I mean, did he act like he would have done it even without a condom?  If so, that would say a lot, too.

About seroconversion timelines...As I recalled the person who infected me, I do believe it was the next day or two that I started having all my lymph nodes swell up and hurt like hell.  I know many believe this is impossible.  But, I don't see a reason why lymph nodes wouldn't start activating soon after the virus is introduced into the body.  This happens all the time with other viruses and infections.  I realize that if you tested a couple days after infection, it wouldn't yet show up. 

I'm left feeling bad for this guy.  He's got cancer and HIV.  Man, that cannot be easy to deal with.  But, I think he was already poz.  Can't they do a test to see whether he was infected within the last 6 months?  I thought we just discussed that here??  If he starts to blame you, I would want to see proof of that "negative" test 6 months ago.  In any event, you disclosed your status and used protection.     

Offline madbrain

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2011, 05:25:47 AM »
tednlou2,

As I was reading your post, I began to think this guy was already poz.  I was surprised that he wasn't concerned about a condom failure with someone known to be poz.  I would think many would have some concern about this--it would just be natural.  Did you push for the condom?  I mean, did he act like he would have done it even without a condom?  If so, that would say a lot, too.

We both wanted the condom, he wouldn't even do oral without it. And still won't. We have had sex a few more times since the first, and the condoms didn't break, so the breakage rate is going down..

Quote
I'm left feeling bad for this guy.  He's got cancer and HIV.  Man, that cannot be easy to deal with.  But, I think he was already poz.  Can't they do a test to see whether he was infected within the last 6 months?  I thought we just discussed that here??  If he starts to blame you, I would want to see proof of that "negative" test 6 months ago.  In any event, you disclosed your status and used protection.     

No, he isn't blaming me at all, and there was ample disclosure. I feel very bad for him too. He is only 30. He had the leukemia on and off since his teens but it took a turn for the worse. The docs say they can operate but he doesn't even want to try it, he is ready to give up. He already had a failed suicide attempt. He was saved by his sister whom he lives with. She happens to work in the same large company as I do, in the same building, 4 floors up, and we had previously met many times in the elevator. I was at their place for dinner thursday, the same day that he got the poz news. We all had a good time. I guess he has already given up on his life anyway and the H bomb doesn't affect him :( He didn't break the news to his sis yet.

Offline mecch

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2011, 05:50:16 AM »
There again, more surprising statements.
 You're still sleeping with him.
In fact there is some kind of relationship - you are celebrating his birthday with him.
And more startling, he gets the news of being poz on his birthday and you all have a good time.

Your life, whatever, I don't understand how any of this situation works.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline bocker3

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2011, 09:57:37 AM »
There again, more surprising statements.
 You're still sleeping with him.
In fact there is some kind of relationship - you are celebrating his birthday with him.
And more startling, he gets the news of being poz on his birthday and you all have a good time.

Your life, whatever, I don't understand how any of this situation works.

What gives you the right to keep judging his life in this thread?  How about you go and straighten up your own life before telling others that theirs doesn't fit your view of life.

I know you will cry victim here because I'm "attacking" you -- but it is interactions like this one that actually cause all the comments for you to "get off your fucking high horse".  You really are a fucking piece of work.......

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
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Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2011, 10:21:22 AM »
I love it that you picked him up in the Poz Mobile. I assume you mean your car with the HIV POZ license plate?

Didn't you go to court (and win) because the DMV wouldn't let you have a plate with HIV POZ on it?

I think that's pretty awesome.

Does anyone at your work make comments?

Offline carousel

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2011, 11:26:34 AM »
I'm really glad you posted this story, but it has made me think.

I'm not sure his story stacks up and wouldn't blame myself.

I can't help feeling that sleeping with him again might not be that helpful, if there is any residual guilt on your behalf.  That bit did surprise me a little too.

One thing I do know is that if he was HIV, I would probably forgo the condom unless he was insistent.

 People lead such interesting lives, and I really should get out more.

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2011, 12:58:57 PM »
What gives you the right to keep judging his life in this thread?  How about you go and straighten up your own life before telling others that theirs doesn't fit your view of life.

I know you will cry victim here because I'm "attacking" you -- but it is interactions like this one that actually cause all the comments for you to "get off your fucking high horse".  You really are a fucking piece of work.......

Mike

Nah, that's not an attack.  It's just tough love. 
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline Basquo

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2011, 01:53:09 PM »

The guy just fessed up to having done IDU in the last 6 months and sharing needles. Looks like I'm not responsible after all.


Am I the only one who read that? Several posts afterwards are angled as if that statement wasn't there. The dude shared needles. He was already poz.

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2011, 02:42:08 PM »
I agree that he was undoubtedly already HIV+. I'm glad that he has you to turn to for information and support regarding the HIV and I hope that his circumstances improve.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2011, 05:29:25 PM »


   I don't even think it's a strecth that your friend made up the whole bit and knew he was HIV+ all along.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline mecch

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2011, 05:58:11 PM »
Seeing as this was an HIV+ guy in denial and has a trick with a known HIV+ guy who is furthermore in a LTR, and then theres a moment were Madbrain is put in a weird spot of perhaps being the transmistter.  And then there are further tricks and a birthday together and support for a sercoversion that was misrepresented.

 My tough love message to you Madbrain is that you should keep a bit clear of this guy, at least sexually. He sounds potentially like a homewrecker.  What relationship could he expect to have with you if all this bonding goes on, and then a kinda manufactured drama, and all the compassion you are showing him. I dunno, seems like he wouldnt mind having you as a BF and is going about it rather oddly and clumsily.  But you have a BF.

Does your BF know about all this happening? Was he at the birthday party too?

In the past few years I've seen relationships dissolve and rather nastily from similar situations and all this makes me nervous.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 06:02:16 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2011, 05:58:55 PM »

   I don't even think it's a strecth that your friend made up the whole bit and knew he was HIV+ all along.

My thoughts exactly -- some pozzies out there have been known to impersonate neggies so that they can fulfill they're warped Breed 'n' Seed fantasies.  With or without soccer socks.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline bocker3

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2011, 06:04:55 PM »
My tough love message to you Madbrain is that you should keep a bit clear of this guy, at least sexually. He sounds potentially like a homewrecker.  What relationship could he expect to have with you if all this bonding goes on, and then a kinda manufactured drama, and all the compassion you are showing him. I dunno, seems like he wouldnt mind having you as a BF and is going about it rather oddly and clumsily.  But you have a BF.
 

This isn't a tough love message -- it's just you being your normal pompous self.  You seem to be able to read tea leaves or something over what is going on in this guy's mind.  From all I've read on here about Madbrain, I think he's a pretty intelligent guy who can handle his relationship just fine. 
Once you have a successful relationship come back and give advice to others -- he wasn't asking for relationship advice here.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
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May2013 691/31% <20

Offline madbrain

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Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2011, 01:54:23 AM »
I love it that you picked him up in the Poz Mobile. I assume you mean your car with the HIV POZ license plate?

Yes, I mean that car.

Quote
Didn't you go to court (and win) because the DMV wouldn't let you have a plate with HIV POZ on it?

I didn't have to go to court, I just talked to the local paper and they put the pressure on the DMV for me.

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I think that's pretty awesome.

Thank you !

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Does anyone at your work make comments?

No.

Offline madbrain

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    • My personal site
Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2011, 03:23:17 AM »
mecch,

In fact there is some kind of relationship - you are celebrating his birthday with him.

Nobody talked about any birthday.

Quote
Your life, whatever, I don't understand how any of this situation works.

Life is complicated sometimes.

Offline mecch

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  • Posts: 12,166
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2011, 06:18:42 AM »
Oh yeah, no birthday, I'm projecting things I've seen around me onto your situation.  Sorry for that!
But please, be cautious in this affair.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2011, 09:54:35 AM »
Am I the only one who read that? Several posts afterwards are angled as if that statement wasn't there. The dude shared needles. He was already poz.

I did read it but just because the guy injected with shared needles doesn't necessarily mean that's how he became hiv positive. I shared needles when I used to do that shit but I didn't get hiv from doing it.

That is why I explained how he could not have been infected from the condom break. He would not have tested positive that quickly. That's why they give a rapid test before initiating PEP (and remember the guy was still in the 72 hour PEP window) - in case the person is already poz but doesn't know it.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline metekrop

  • Member
  • Posts: 364
Re: I can't believe this
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2011, 07:19:23 AM »
I fucked him in the sauna with a condom. Unfortunately, despite using plenty of lube, the condom broke

The condom broke.   :o  I can't beleive that.  ::) ::) ::)
Diag on Dec 8, 2000, CD 440 VL 44K, No Meds
Dec/08 - Feb/09 CD< 50 & VL >500k hosp'z.
St. Atripla - July/09 CD 179, VL 197k
Oct/09 CD 300 VL UD Chol 267
Mar/10 CD 468 UD, Ch 220
Aug/10 CD 460 UD, Ch 195
Dec/10 CD 492 UD, Ch 172
Mar/11 CD 636 UD, Ch 201
Aug/11 CD 530 UD, Ch 98
Jan/12 cd 616 UD, ch 189
Jul/12 CD 640 UD, Ch ?
Dec/12 CD 669 Ud, Ch 125
May/7 CD711 Ud, Ch?
Nov/ 22 663 UD, Ch,
April 17 CD 797,
Oct, 14 CD 810 UD

 


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