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Author Topic: Origin of AIDS/HIV.  (Read 16550 times)

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Offline auspoz

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Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« on: January 22, 2011, 05:46:00 AM »
Hi Everyone.

Recently I've become really interested in the origins of HIV/AIDS, this virus that I have, that I deal with and that I live with. For some reason, knowing how it came to be, and how it came to be an epidemic, really intrigues me.

Let me firstly say that I am not an HIV denialist, nor do I adhere to the "Big Pharma" conspiracy theories. What a load of crap that all is. I'm sure the health system would have far better things to do than keep seeing me if there was no reason to measure my blood every few months.

But from a scientific perspective, this virus must have a past, and the limited research I have done points to a couple of possibilities. I am not a virologist nor an epidemiologist, just someone living with this who is trying to make sense of my life with this virus.

So, I'd be very happy to hear from anyone who thinks they might have a plausible theory as to the origin of the HIV/AIDS virus.

My research has led me to the Polio vaccine theory. It just seems to me that too many pieces of information seem to stack up in favour (?) of this scenario. I imagine humans have been killing and eating monkeys for millennia, so I find the "hunter" theory very flimsy.

I'd be very interested to hear people's views, research and/or thoughts.

I wish everyone the best of health.

auspoz.

Offline veritas

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2011, 06:04:59 AM »

Here's a  good speculation:

http://www.avert.org/origin-aids-hiv.htm

It's going to be very difficult to pin it down. They know that HIV has been found in plasma as early as 1959 and it's probably been around longer than that.

v

Offline komnaes

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2011, 06:14:11 AM »
There are a couple of books out there.. but for a starter I would strongly recommend this article from a recent edition of the New Yorker Magazine:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/12/20/101220fa_fact_specter

The online version is still restricted to subscribers, but since the actual magazine came out just before Xmas I am sure it can still be found in bookstores or newspaper stands. It's a very good read, and I like the fact that it doesn't just focus on HIV but also a number of other "exotic" viruses (like monkeypox, etc) that have just made the jump from mainly primates to human in Africa where the locals still hurt them for "bushmeat".

While there are simply too many unproven conspiracy theories out there (from the discredited polio vaccine theory to the really silly ones like the US govt made it, etc), this article offers a clear analysis of the latest researches on not just HIV but other potentially deadly infections that can come out of the few remaining truly primitive jungles.
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline auspoz

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2011, 06:14:45 AM »
True it'd be difficult. But I reckon it's WORTH trying to pin down.

These theories are a beginning. But, as I see it, it's worth having more discussion about the origins.

If we humans can trace the proliferation of the internet, we can trace the proliferation of a virus too. LOL. To what end? To understand where a retrovirus like HIV entered our existence and impacted millions of lives.

The silence surrounding this issue is deafening, and requires serious debate.

auspoz.

Offline auspoz

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2011, 06:25:57 AM »
Thanks for the replies.

I am unconvinced that the polio vaccine theory has been "disproved" rather than "discredited". A lot of people have reasons to discredit this theory; like being held responsible for hundreds of millions of deaths!

Vivre le debate.

auspoz.

Offline mecch

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2011, 08:01:03 AM »
Vaccines are the Boo Radley of mom & pop "looking for answers" health advocacy.  

Try this Sept 2010 NYT article for short, clear, plausible explanations:

Perhaps HIV permanent establishment WAS related to the reuse of industrial syringes from the 1950s on.

However other research suggests the virus became permanently established in humans at the turn of the century, when syringes were rare. This was because of mobility and sex trade.  

So its good you are not a conspiracy theorist and are not looking for conspiratorial "intent to infect" in vaccine programs.  That frees of the inquiry to some mix and match hypothesis:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/17/health/17aids.html
Precursor to H.I.V. Was in Monkeys for Millenniums
By DONALD G. McNEIL Jr.
Published: September 16, 2010

"Knowing that all four strains were at least 10,000 years old, scientists recalculated the virus’s “molecular clock,” measuring how fast it mutates. They now believe that all the S.I.V. strains infecting monkeys and apes across Africa diverged from a common ancestor between 32,000 and 78,000 years ago."

"The virus has probably crossed over from simians into humans at least five times. There are two human immunodeficiency viruses, H.I.V.-1, by far the most common, and H.I.V.-2, which is milder and rarely seen outside West Africa, and which jumped to humans from sooty mangabeys, a monkey that West Africans hunt and eat."

"Dr. Marx believes that the crucial event was the introduction into Africa of millions of inexpensive, mass-produced syringes in the 1950s. Campaigns to wipe out yaws, syphilis, malaria, smallpox and polio required syringes, and many were reused, often with official approval. Traditional healers adopted them for injecting their decoctions, and they became status symbols; a study in Uganda in the 1960s found that 80 percent of families owned one.

Not everyone agrees. Michael Worobey, a virologist at the University of Arizona and another author of the Science paper, said backdating the molecular clock, which he did by comparing the 1959 blood sample with the only other known early one — a paraffin-embedded lymph node from 1960, also from Kinshasa — suggested that the virus emerged closer to 1910, when syringes were handmade, expensive and rare.

He and Dr. Hahn suspect that the growth of colonial cities is to blame. Before 1910, no Central African town had more than 10,000 people. But urban migration rose, increasing sexual contacts and leading to red-light districts."

etc etc etc


So, sex.  And needle exchange.  Basically what people have been saying since the 80's without any knowledge of the virus's evolution.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2011, 08:35:40 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2011, 09:54:36 AM »
Wasn't the polio vaccine conspiracy the load of bullshit that blamed Philadelphia's Wistar Institute and Hilary Koprowski (home of, consequently, a huge amount of current HIV vaccine work) for the monkey stuff in the Congo?  You know, the Edward Hopper book stuff.  You'd have to believe hundreds are complicit in that cover up, so you know I don't see how that passes the sniff test.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2011, 10:12:17 AM »
PBS had a fascinating movie about the origin of HIV, part of their Frontline series. Below is a link, I think it may be viewable online.

LINK:

How It Began: HIV Before the Age of AIDS


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/aids/virus/origins.html

Offline mecch

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2011, 12:46:10 PM »
The vaccine conspiracy theory is different than the vaccine helped spread HIV theory.

The first was a conspiracy theory that said some evil mad entity put HIV in vaccines.

The second is that vaccinations introduced syringes into a population, and the syringes led to multiple blood contacts and the spread of HIV.

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline auspoz

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2011, 05:51:02 AM »
So I haven't been here in ages. I guess I'm thinking differently now.

I asked my HIV specialist if he had some perspectives on this question, and he honestly stated that it has fallen off the HIV radar, and that he would have had more information 10 years ago. I trust him- he's a great guy.

So here's where I sit now... The CCR5 co-receptor has the function of blocking HIV replication. therefore, it must have entered our DNA millennia ago, to allow for populations to evolve with such 'immunity'. But, something MUST have happened in our recent past to turn a clever, elusive and rare phenomenon into a pandemic. Maybe it was inoculations using re-used syringes. Perhaps it was vaccinations that used molecular material from monkeys, and that some contended in the 1950s was contaminated by an unknown virlological agent.contaminant. (the polio vaccine for example).

Then again, I see global and sociological changes as lending themselves to greater and more widespread transmission. Blood transfusions for instance- rare in the early 20th century, but commonplace by the later part, including use of blood products.

And as for sexual emancipation and social movement/travel; as a species, we never saw such great migration nor liberation as the later 20th century provided, but I assume people have had lots of sex for centuries, and it resulted in quiet syphilis cases and unspoken cases of the clap.

So I remain inquisitive, and hopeful for an answer. I don't think it's right just to go "it just happened". That's not so. Something or many things created such a pandemic, which is not airborne, or as easily transmitted as the 'flu.

Cheers folks. I appreciate all the replies and perspectives.

auspoz.

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2011, 08:37:43 AM »

So here's where I sit now... The CCR5 co-receptor has the function of blocking HIV replication. 

Not quite.

HIV uses the CCR5 co-receptor (and sometimes another co-receptor CXCR4) to enter cells. People who lack CCR5 are virtually immune.

There is a theory that the reason 10% of Europeans lack CCR5 has to do with the fact that their ancestors who survived plagues during the Middle Ages lacked it.

Biologists Discover Why 10 Percent Of Europeans Are Safe From HIV Infection

LINK:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050325234239.htm

Offline mecch

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2011, 01:25:04 PM »
The CCR5 co-receptor has the function of blocking HIV replication. therefore, it must have entered our DNA millennia ago, to allow for populations to evolve with such 'immunity'.
auspoz.

This is a clear fail.
The rest of your post has lots of interesting speculation.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2011, 01:36:37 PM »
Vaccines are the Boo Radley of mom & pop "looking for answers" health advocacy.  

 :D  I like that. 

I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline auspoz

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2011, 05:39:51 PM »
Yup - happy to own it. I got the CCR5 thing wrong. (Glad I said I was no expert up front). But I think you catch my drift with it.

Thanks for your input people. In some ways, thinking of the epidemic makes me feel less alone. Not so many positive people here in Australia.

auspoz.


Offline pozoz

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2011, 06:25:30 AM »


Thanks for your input people. In some ways, thinking of the epidemic makes me feel less alone. Not so many positive people here in Australia.

auspoz.


[/quote]

You are not alone. In 2005 there were 16,000 people in Australia living with HIV.
Six years later I'm sure that number is much higher. Small in comparison, yes, but still that's a pretty big number.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/aids/atlas/world.html

Seroconverted Aug 2008
Tested Pos      May 2009
May 09 CD4 544 19%   VL 22K
Aug 09 CD4 514  19% VL 25K
Dec 09 CD4 510  20% VL 32K
June10 CD4 502  20% VL 36K
July 5th,10 Start Truvada  Reyataz Norvir July 30  CD4 360  21% VL 339
Oct  22 CD4 459  27% VL 191
Jan 2011CD4 561 33% VL U/D <40
Feb  Add Verimune lead in dose to start switch to Verimune/Truvada  
Mar 17 Viramune x2 + Truvada. Stop PIs   
Apr 29     CD4 528 33% VL U/D
July 2011 CD4 440  %?  VL U/D
Sept 2011CD4 620  %?   VL U/D
Dec 2011 CD4 531 31% VL 224
Jan 2012  CD4 576 36% VL U/D
May 2012 CD4 504 36% U/D (start Viramune XR
July 2012 576 (36%) (test request due to XR issues)
Feb  2013 629  (? %) U/D
July  2013 608 38%.   U/D
Jan  14.    576  36%.   UD

Offline Ann

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2011, 06:34:18 AM »
You are not alone. In 2005 there were 16,000 people in Australia living with HIV.

And our very own Matty the Damned counts for at least ten of those people all on his own, his personality is that big. I've been led to believe that his personality isn't the only big thing about him either.... there's his ego for one. ;D 
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline elf

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2011, 07:47:13 AM »
The population of Croatia is 4.5 million.
There have been less than 1000 HIV ''cases'' so far (60% of them due to MSN contact).
But the prevalence in the MSM population is 5 %.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18690533
There is something fishy about this data.  ???
If the number of gay people is 10 %, there  should be more cases documented.  ???
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 07:53:44 AM by elf »

Offline elf

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2011, 07:48:18 AM »
As for the origin of the virus, it is believed that the virus crossed from monkeys to humans, between 1850 and 1900.
It will take a million years for humans do become immune to it.


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=ancient-origin-for-monkey-HIV
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 07:54:52 AM by elf »

Offline mecch

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2011, 07:56:18 AM »
The population of Croatia is 4.5 million.
There have been less than 1000 HIV ''cases'' so far (60% of them due to MSN contac).
But the prevalence in the MSM population is 5 %.
There is something fishy about this data.  ???
If the number of gay people is 10 %, they should be more cases documented.  ???

4.5 million/2 = 2.25 men
2.25 men/10 = 225,000 potential homos  (and who says its 10%?)
225,000/2 = very rough estimate to remove kids and non sexually active men = 112,000 sexually active gay men
5% infection MSM would be 5,600 cases

these kinds of figures are very very complicated to come up with


 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2011, 10:56:21 PM »
(and who says its 10%?)

Alfred Kinsey, that's who!

Offline auspoz

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2011, 06:47:17 AM »
I'm gonna go out on a limb here. I reckon Kinsey was wrong. Well, not wrong, more than too definitive considering his own admission of the sliding scale of sexual orientation.

I wonder how many people don't identify as gay, but who do gay stuff. Like music theatre. LOL (Joke)

Not that being gay or straight necessarily matters when it comes to the HIV/Aids experience.

auspoz.

Offline Ann

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2011, 08:09:09 AM »
I'm gonna go out on a limb here. I reckon Kinsey was wrong. Well, not wrong, more than too definitive considering his own admission of the sliding scale of sexual orientation.

Someone else came up with another scale - called the Klein Sexual Orientation Grid. You can take the test online yourself here.

My dot came up just slightly south-west of center. :)
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2011, 12:50:51 PM »
There was some article on the news last week that the number is actually more like 3-4%, but of course it's exceptionally difficult to measure this topic anyway.  Lots of people might engage in homosexual conduct but not consider themselves to be gay.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline elf

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2011, 11:46:45 AM »
I think the percentage here is more likely to be around 1 %. (based on the HIV data).
In Spain it's around 3-5%.

But 10 % seems a bit too high (it includes even bi-curious people who have never done anything more than give a passionate hug   ;D)

Offline mecch

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2011, 05:12:49 AM »
I think the percentage here is more likely to be around 1 %. (based on the HIV data).
In Spain it's around 3-5%.

But 10 % seems a bit too high (it includes even bi-curious people who have never done anything more than give a passionate hug   ;D)


The percentage of gays? 1%?  Gay action or gay identity?

I dunno there always seem to be a few gays around no matter where I am. 

Anyway there are enough.   

1% seems low for the number of people who regularly engage in same sex.  I'm sure there are cultures which claim no gays -- Iran hahaha -- my Iranian students - guys - laughed out loud at that silly pronouncement of Ahmadinedschad.  One day a bunch of Cameroonian guys were saying there were no gays really in their country, and the ladies from Cameroon rolled their eyes, it was hilarious.

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Ann

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2011, 07:04:24 AM »
The percentage of gay people in a population is going to be roughly the same no matter where you live or what your cultural norms are. People are BORN gay. Being gay is not a result of culture. How that person may act - or not act - on their homosexuality and whether or not they will admit to being gay is the only thing that culture is going to influence.

Elf, if we use the generally touted idea that 10% of the population is gay and you believe that where you live that percentage is only 1%, then that means around 9% of the gay people where you live are deeply in the closet.

As the saying goes - we're here, we're queer, get used to it!
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline spacebarsux

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2011, 02:25:13 AM »
I agree with what Ann said. The figure would be roughly 10 % across the globe, give or take a few. People are born gay! Its just like you either like chocolate or you don't. Statistics are often misleading cos so many gay people NEVER act on their feelings due to socio-cultural presurres and their own notions of sexuality. I've fucked guys who claimed to be str8! In a lot of non-western cultures only overtly effiminate appearing guys are considered by others to be 'gay'- which is obviously ridiculous since many if not most gay guys look and behave as masculine as any other. If it weren't for social conditioning, we'd see many more gay people act on their feelings. 
Infected-  2005 or early 2006; Diagnosed- Jan 28th, 2011; Feb '11- CD4 754 @34%, VL- 39K; July '11- CD4 907@26%,  VL-81K; Feb '12- CD4 713 @31%, VL- 41K, Nov '12- CD4- 827@31%

Offline sam66

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2011, 04:42:23 AM »


  Man who created AIDS -

   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDxZ7PX8YGI

     :o
december 2007 diagnosed +ve ,

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #28 on: April 23, 2011, 11:26:03 AM »
I saw the revival of The Normal Heart on Broadway last night. It was very good. It's not exactly about the origin of AIDS but it's  spot on in its depiction of the early days.  At certain points during the production names of actual people who died are projected on the theater walls. At first there are about 50 names in fairly large type and by the end of the play, the names, written in small type, fill most of the theater's walls.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 06:18:18 PM by Inchlingblue »

Offline jacken

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2011, 09:22:54 PM »
PBS had a fascinating movie about the origin of HIV, part of their Frontline series. Below is a link, I think it may be viewable online.

LINK:

How It Began: HIV Before the Age of AIDS


http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/aids/virus/origins.html

Thank you very much for the link. I have not shed tears since my recent diagnosis but this documentary did just that. It humbles me and gives me hope.

Offline Betelgeuse

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2011, 06:38:10 AM »
Check out this interview with Merck's Vaccine Chief.  What I find most troubling is the laughter and the unintended (or maybe intentional) comedy the interviewers find from talking to this individual:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edikv0zbAlU&feature=related
04/19/11 - Diagnosed positive
04/29/11 - CD4 188 @ 12.5% / VL 18k
05/03/11 - CD4 171 @ unk% / VL 7k
06/04/11 - Start Truvada/Isentress
07/11/11 - CD4 not tested / VL UD
09/07/11 - CD4 252 @ unk% / VL UD

Offline mecch

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2011, 06:46:32 AM »
Betelgeuse, please affirm your position. Do you believe this theory that AIDS was spread by vaccines?  Big Pharma is evil?  etc etc etc?? 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline phildinftlaudy

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  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2011, 08:35:24 AM »
Someone else came up with another scale - called the Klein Sexual Orientation Grid. You can take the test online yourself here.

My dot came up just slightly south-west of center. :)
My dot clearly shows me as GAY, GAY, GAY (with Broadway music playin in the background).  Although, my past behavior was a bit more  conflicted, but not much   ;)  ---- and my ideal is directly "on top of my 'present'" ---- just the way me likes it. :o

September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2011, 08:41:18 AM »
My dot clearly shows me as GAY, GAY, GAY (with Broadway music playin in the background).  Although, my past behavior was a bit more  conflicted, but not much   ;)  ---- and my ideal is directly "on top of my 'present'" ---- just the way me likes it. :o



Whoa dude, you're waaaay out there in right field.  ~cue the score from My Fair Lady~

I'm a center fielder myself, as I mentioned previously. Me and my jeans and my Doc Martins. ;)
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Ann

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    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2011, 08:42:11 AM »
Betelgeuse, please affirm your position. Do you believe this theory that AIDS was spread by vaccines?  Big Pharma is evil?  etc etc etc?? 


Ditto. ???
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline newt

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Re: Origin of AIDS/HIV.
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2011, 06:51:28 PM »
Like most human disease, it came from animals, in this case monkeys and apes, prob early in the 20th century. There is a bunch of similar viruses which affect a selection of animals, some causing disease, some not, eg cats, lions, goats, monkeys, chimps.

BBC news report:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5012268.stm

Old abstract:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9989410

Key Nature paper (prob abstact only if you don't cough up/log in):

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v410/n6832/abs/4101047a0.html

I can post more links to nerdy analyses if you like.

It's easy to find on the Internet alternative stories, esp regarding polio vaccines, but they are not kosher, not peer reviewed science. not sound reporting, more like the script for The Day After Tomorrow.

- matt
"The object is to be a well patient, not a good patient"

 


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