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Author Topic: Unprotected Intercourse with a POZ women..Strong Symptomes but neg at 12 weeks !  (Read 10863 times)

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Offline queb23

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Hi guys.  here is my story.

I'm 32 years healthy male, I have had unprotected vaginal sex  with a women that told me lately that she is poz for 2 years now and she is untreated yet, after 15 days, I had fever  of 37.7 C for more than 3 weeks  ,muscle pain, white tong, big mouth canker , diarrhea and blood in stool, Tingling in all my body and a rash on my back, very painful swollen Swollen glands throughout my whole body .II have been in hospital 5 times during the last 3 months, had blood tests at week 12 my CD4/CD8 rate are nearly  1  ( CD4 count  are 920, DC8 780, a report of 1.20. ) they also found an extremely high rate of CMV IgG, (512 U / ml, the limit is 15 and IgM negative) and high levels of EBV IgG and IgM negative,  after PRC CMV, and EBV, they found high viral load of those thwo virus, doctors said that they are for some reason REACTIVATED !!, and  that the blood in the stool is caused by CMV rectitis. (which happens only in with HIV infected people ).

I did some testing Elisa DUO (HIV1 / 2 and P24).

Week 4 after the risk negative.
Week 6,negative.
Week 9,negative.
Week 10,negative.
Week 12 and negative.

After the negative result of 12 weeks, I had unprotected sex with my wife after that , after 15 days she had a flu with high fever to 38,5 C, a big fatigue and sore throat with a cough that has persisted more than 3 weeks and a white tongue too.

After 12 weeks, I start to feel a little bit better, I am afraid of the results of the next test, as I think that if a seroconversion took place, it has ended after 12 weeks.
I have all, the classical symptoms of HIV, indeed, that what I have been told by an ID physician, my wife symptoms (flu-like), my CMV and EBV reactivation, generalize painful swollen lymph nodes (still til now- 4 month) , neurological symptoms, low CD4/CD8, and finally my poz partner.…all evidences that I catch it.. but tested neg at 12 weeks with DUO ELISA. In your opinion, what are the odds of staying negative in the 6 months mark, Should I have PRC RNA tests ??


Thank you for your help.

Offline jkinatl2

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The gold standard for HIV testing is 12 weeks/three months. Unless you are a long-term IV drug user, or currently undergoing chemotherapy which destroys the immune system, you are reliably HIV negative.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline queb23

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Thanks for the response.
That What I hase been told, 12 weeks is reliable, but in my case, a confirmed exposition ti the virus.with all the evidence of contamination that I stated above..can I realy sleep at night believing my 97 % reliable test at 12 weeks (as CDC state)..its hard ..still 3 peaple over 100 will seroconvert beyond 12 weeks, I am not a drug user, always being helthy, even a flu, rarely happen to me before...so can I relly logicaly on my 12 weeks tests !!
The Poz lady (she lives in Quebec), had a lot of africain drug users friends..I suppose that she get it from one of them  ..my fear is if it is an sybtype other than B type, and that type take more time to show in Elisa test..or even if it Elisa can show all non sub B type  ? is there more accurate tests I can do ? or juste wait to 6 months to do another tests ?

Offline Andy Velez

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The bottom line at the end of all of the symptoms and testing details you have given is that you tested negative at 12 weeks. That means you are HIV negative. Period.

You need to learn from this experience. You can have sex with anyone regardless of their HIV status. But you need to do it the safer way which means using a condom everytime. No exceptions no matter what you think you know about that person's status or history or how great they look. A condom is a must.

If your wife's symptoms persist she should discuss them with her doctor. They have nothing to do with HIV. You can't pass a virus you don't have.
Andy Velez

Offline queb23

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Thanks Andy..I appreciate your help, But still need a clarification about my concernes in my former questions (African HIV sub-types and elisa and the warranty or not of a further  test at 6 month or PCR RNA ??)..thanks very much for your help..u guys are Angels.

Offline jkinatl2

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There is no need for further testing.  Current generation HIV tests detect all known strains, even the extremely rare O and N strains. The information you are accessing as regards these concerns is seriously outdated.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline queb23

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Hi guys, I am lost..need your help.
 
I posted a question in the body forum,  Dr Bob responded in french (as I am french speaker), he ask me to test again for six months marks, he said that my symptomes are suggesting acute HIV infection, I visited my ID yasterday, he ask me too to retest for 6 months mark, as he noticed that my lymph node are no more painfull, but are very enlarged since  the last time, in my arm-pit, groin and head, he has got my mouth lab tests and I have a hairy trush suggesting strongly HIV infecion, my wife too start to have generalized lymph node after a very flu-like with 40 C fever over 10 days, so  my ID is asking me to prepare my self and my wife for possible bad news in next results, as he ruled out all other possibilities ( lupus, lymes, autoumine desease....all tests negative) ,
So he suggested that either I have really uncommon or mutant strain, that take more time to show in test, or I am slightly late resoconverter (despite my CD4 count of 920 at week 12), my self I dont undertand..why my duo test at 3, 4, 6, 7, 9, 10, 12 all came negative..how can I despite all the evidence that I have this virus but even the entigen part of the duo did not catch it ?
Here in quebec the PCR are not used for testing, so my next ( 19 week ) will be duo test. I am anxious about what will be the results, here the expert expect bad news because both of us (me and my wife show strong evidence if infection after that I had unprotected sex with HIV+ women)..can some one help to explain why my case is so uncommon ?  how can I deal with my strange case..what should I expect or what should I do..
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 01:53:11 AM by queb23 »

Offline Worried One

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I’m going to incur the wrath of the moderators here by posting in your forum. The reason I have the audacity to do this is that I am a doctor myself – not in an HIV or Infectious disease related field, but I do have access to all the literature. So maybe they’ll cut me some slack, because I genuinely want to help.

Firstly, you have all the ‘classic’ symptoms for EBV, and your tests indicate that this virus is currently active. Why on earth your ID doctor is not satisfied with this as an explanation for your symptoms, utterly escapes me. You should ask him.

Now, HIV. There are a FEW (like 2 or 3) recent, credible case reports of sero-negative HIV infection, or delayed seroconversion beyond 3 months (and not only in immunocompromised people or IV drug abusers either). However, there is not a single case report of a patient that has tested repeatedly negative on fourth generation tests (the tests you’ve had) that has subsequently turned out to have HIV. You would be the first. And as you correctly point out, it is almost impossible to imagine how the HIV virus could cause persistent viraemia and symptoms, yet have p24 antigen levels on ELISA consistently staying below the signal to cut-off ratio on repeated tests.

If you want further reassurance, I suggest you ask the docs on medhelp.org. They’re very sensible – as are the guys here. However, if you’re anything like me, no amount of reassurance is going to work for you. But I believe after you have that six month test (and I bet you do have one) your deeper subconscious will slowly start to believe all the evidence, and your physical being will slowly improve.

Offline queb23

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thanks woriedone
I asked many doctors, including Dr BOB in the body Forum, he said that I have to take other HIV test, its warranted in my cases, as I have strong evidence on contamination.
my ID found after lab test that that I have OHL in my tong, my wife has now generalized enlarged lymph nodes. the blood work show that she has not EBV, or CMV or any herpes. the ID said that in some case if the if the strain that I have been contamined by, from the hiv + woman, is mutant its  can take more time to show in tests. I found that indeed there is some case where its happened in the recent litterature- see link bellow :

http://jcm.asm.org/cgi/content/full/42/6/2847

so my negative 3, 4, 6, 10, 12 weeks results can change to positive..I dont know what to do, should I wait for antibody the next test at 19 weeks, or should I move somewhere to do viral load, as my ID say dont trust this test as he said it will give false negative (if the viral loas is bellow detection)...I am lost. All expert I have seen expect bad news..will it be in the next test ? I am freeking for the disaster that is happening ..


Offline queb23

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how even 6 tests out to 12 weeks elisa duo failled to find this virus..and further  tests are waranted in my case ? my ummune system is not compromised and I have not any other specific medical exeption.
Do you think that My ID theory about a mutant HIV starin that take a bit more time to show on test, as stated by the medical litterature I provided above..is the most consistant theory ?
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 09:51:23 AM by queb23 »

Offline queb23

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Please dear friends, need your feed-back..it is very important to me to have a such experienced opinions as yours Andy,  assissing my strang case..will help me and other people in the same situation.

Offline Andy Velez

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The only persons who need to test beyond 12 weeks for HIV are those instances where longtime intravenous drug use, an organ transplant or treatment for cancer is involved. As long as none of those apply to you then you can consider your negative at 12 weeks to be conclusive and reliable, no matter what anyone else says about it. Period.

You are HIV negative. Whatever is going on symptomatically is something to discuss with your doctor(s). This is not an HIV situation. We can't diagnose anything here. All we can tell you with certainty is that HIV is not the problem.
Andy Velez

Offline queb23

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Hi guys,
I am really in dark tunell


I have now at 6 months mark : 20 elisa duo test, 10 Insti rapid test, 1 viral load roch amplicor, 1 Naat Aptima PCR . all negative.
My wife : 3 months mark elisa duo negative.

I know you will say conclusive , but just look to my blood work recently received at 6 months mark

Me : low pallets, low lymphocyte. Very low blood sedimentation ESR = 0 after 1 hr
       CD4 count      3 months  after exposure : 920,
                            6 months after exposure : 490, (droped by half)
      CD8 count       3 months after exposure 730
                            6 months after exposure : 890
        CD4/CD8       3 months  after exposure 1,2
                            6 months  after exposure  0,55 (Inverted and droped by half)

my wife ( she were very healthy before having sex with me) NOW :very low pallets, low lymphocyte.

     CD4 count 3 months  after exposure with me : 381, (supressed umune system)
     CD8 count 3 after exposure 780      
     CD4/CD8   3 months  after exposure 0.48 (inverted)


We are now in serious health trouble me and my wife,  wich all specialiste failed to give a diagnostics. And all of them, my ID, neuro, MD, and rheumatologist, are still suspecting HIV.

we have both severe neureupathy, the neuro said he can do nothing, as we have to treat the source, I have more generalised painful swollen lymph nodes, arm pit, groin, neck, in the face near the ears, behind the knee, in feet, the biopsy show activate lymph nodes. I have now untreatable male yeast infection, and oral thrush. And blurred vision, and increasing floaters.

It clear that it is impossible for both of us to have inverted and CD4/CD8. and exactly same symptoms, which all are consistent with HIV infection.
I see my number dropping dramatically in only 3 months, It should be a virulent virus, as we progress fastly both of us towards Aids, we have seen an immunologist, he can t help, he said to check CD4/CD8 monthly, and according the result, he say he we may, consider antibiotics prophylaxis if the number drops further.

I know the usual conclusive test response, yeh, thats right, I believed it, and now I have my wife in my hands with this weird virus. Guys there is always exception with the biology

So please, Just one question guys, only one, if I will look for the HIV+ lady who infected me, will it be usefull if we cary on here a test to look which kind of HIV she is carrying, as may be it mutated in her when duplicating ? I asked my ID, he does not see that is useful, rather he ordred an HIV DNA PCR, for nex friday!
Can you save two lives with any clues ?
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 11:21:18 AM by queb23 »

Offline Ann

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queb,

Your doctor should have ordered an RNA PCR test, not a DNA PCR test. DNA PCR tests are not approved for diagnostic purposes as they are prone to false positive results and that is the last thing you need in your situation. RNA tests ARE approved for diagnostic purposes as they are more reliable.

Keep working with your doctors to find out what's going on. You have more than conclusively ruled hiv out of the picture. You do not have hiv.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline queb23

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Thank ann for your answer,

I have already done 1 viral load, and 1 Nat aptima RNA-PCR, negative.
 He ordred DNA, as last attempt to make HIV diagnostics, we run all the possible tests, Antibody, antigen, viral load, NAAT,
But As you see, my number are indicating an HIV infection, and are going down, to a suppressed umine system for both of us, so almost no doubt about the infection.
My question are,
1- if I find the HIV+ lady who infected me, will it help, if we carry a genotype test on here? May be it will solve the puzzle. Do you think so?
2-What about western blott, the ID did not want to do it, Will it usefull to pick up a divergent strain?
Thank you very much to answering my two questions.

Offline Ann

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queb,

1. You cannot run a genotype on a virus that is not present. You have to have a detectable viral load on a PCR test in order to run a genotype test. You do not have a detectable viral load. As for the woman, I'm quite sure her doctors would have run a genotype test on her at some point (it is standard procedure) and if she had something strange going on, her case would have been written up in a medical journal.

2. The Western Blot test is only run when there has been a positive hiv antibody test. You REPEATEDLY have NOT had a positive antibody test. You do not need a Western Blot.

Did you ever stop to consider that if the woman in question has tested positive, then she does not have any special genotype or subtype or whatever that would evade the testing techniques that have been used on you? And no, hiv will not mutate in someone's body into something that will not produce antibodies when transmitted to another person.

"But As you see, my number are indicating an HIV infection"

Your other lab results indicate no such thing. Your CD4s are in normal ranges. CD4s can vary by as much as 100 points or more during the course of a single day.

You do not have hiv. Keep working with your doctors to find out what, if anything, is actually wrong with you. You have already more than conclusively ruled hiv out of the picture.

You and your doctors all need to forget about the fact that you had sex with a positive woman and start looking in other directions to find out what's going on. It sounds like you have all developed hiv tunnel vision.

If you read the Welcome Thread before posting like you're supposed to, you will have read the following posting guideline:

Quote

Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). If you continue to post excessively after one Time Out, you may be given a second Time Out which will last eight weeks. There is no third Time Out - it is a permanent ban. The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.


Please consider yourself warned!

Ann

Ann
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline queb23

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Thanks Ann
 For the valuable informations,

This lady was untreated at that time, as she told me after asking here; she does not seems that she care about here self, she is drug user, I don’t know if even she has a physician who is working with, not sure if some work as genotype has be done on here….
But Ann what should I do, my CD4 are 490 cut by half and inverted CD4/CD8 ratio, only in 6 months, my wife CD 4 around 300 supressed uminity and inverted ratio just after 3 months of infection, our health is deteriorating rapidly , the only thing that could be done by the immunologist is giving us antibiotics as prophylaxis if thing go worst, that what we have been told,  we are left alone, how can I move on with this situation.

Should I accept the reality that we will die soon, undiagnosed because the tests are not showing the virus, when there is an effective treatment that can delay the progression to Aids.

I have read the welcome thread, but I am looking desperately for clues and help everywhere, but it seems that I will not have any, nothing left but preparing our funeral, how sad  life can be.

Offline Andy Velez

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No matter what your head is telling you to the contrary and despite all of the patching together of bits on your part, HIV is not your problem. If you doctor cannot identify the source of your problem and of your wife's, then it's time to see a different doctor.

This is not an HIV situation and your insisting in the world is not going to change that.

But you do need to know that you're on the verge of getting a Time Out here. There is really nothing more we can do about your situation. HIV is not the problem.
Andy Velez

Offline queb23

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Thank you anyway, just by answering my posts you have already done much for me.
I will accept the situation as it is, I am tired from going from a doctor to another, without any answer, and being helpless toward our rapid and simultanious unimunity declining, mine and my poor wife's, thats life, I made a mistake, I am paying the full price, I will deal with it, and wait for my destiny.
Thanks Ann, Thanks Andy, God protect you.

Offline Andy Velez

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You know what, stop with the drama already. HIV is not your problem. So instead of carrying on about it, get yourself some good professional medical and perhaps also psychological help to deal with your problems.
Andy Velez

Offline queb23

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Hi,
Just quick question to andy, or Ann.
Another CD4 count were done with another laboratory, 'Quest diagnostic', the CD4 is 760, it was bellow at 490 the other lab. is one of the two result is false ? which one is to belive ?
thanks.

Offline Ann

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queb,

CD4 results can vary enormously within the course of a single day no matter if the person is negative or positive.

We've repeatedly told you that hiv is not your problem.

I'm giving you that time out you've been warned about. Do not attempt to create a new account to get around your time out because if you do, you will be permanently banned.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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