Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
Newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr Instagram
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 23, 2014, 02:20:27 PM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
  • Total Members: 24023
  • Latest: ohuser
Stats
  • Total Posts: 646976
  • Total Topics: 49286
  • Online Today: 182
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online
Users: 6
Guests: 157
Total: 163

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot  (Read 23163 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline aztecan

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,404
  • 29 years positive, 57 years a pain in the butt
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #150 on: January 10, 2011, 07:19:30 PM »
No offence to my friends who live in the States..but sweet Jesus you have some sick Mother-F*ckers over there, how the hell can these people call themselves Christians...IMHO these people have committed many crimes just by being on this planet...they make me sick to my stomach.

Jan

It is these types of Christians that drove me to become a Pagan.

My this thread has gone all over the place.

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Online Jeff G

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 12,733
  • How am I doing Beren ?
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #151 on: January 10, 2011, 07:28:32 PM »
I'm fed up with the conservative and tea party  movement here in the states . Let us never forget they are the ones who gave a wink and nod to supporters who showed up at political rallies with guns , they are the ones who painted targets on there opponents backs and told there supporters to take back power by any means necessary , they are the ones who supported gays serving honorably losing there carriers and they are the ones still doing everything they possibly can to deny gay Americans they're civil rights .

Conservatives are solely to blame for the current poison political climate in this country , all the liberals can be accused of is trying to defend themselves .

Offline Assurbanipal

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,173
  • Taking a forums break, still see PM's
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #152 on: January 10, 2011, 07:42:24 PM »
i really didn't wanna point this out

they were called pre ban hi cap mags ;D

i think i've still got a stash buried behind my garden, just in case ;-)

folks, this tragedy was beyond comprehension, and there were plenty of red flags he should not have been issued a firearms permit, but responsible gun owners are shouldn't take the fall for it

Zach

Here's the part I don't get.  How can anyone who owns a working semiautomatic pistol claim to be a "responsible gun owner"?

They aren't good for hunting.

They go far beyond anything one would need for self defense against any one or two individuals.

The reasons people seem to cite for owning them is that they are "fun to shoot" or "look cool".  But those are hardly responsible attitudes towards deadly armory.

I grew up with rifles and shotguns, went hunting with my Dad and all that.  But I just don't get why these count as guns that responsible gun owners defend.
A

5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline woodshere

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,477
  • ain't no shame in my game
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #153 on: January 10, 2011, 08:15:54 PM »
Add these examples to edfu's excellent sited article;

Maryland Democratic Rep. Frank Kratovil hung in effigy in July 2009 

MO Congressman Russ Carnahan burnt in effigy March 2010

Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz  of Florida opponent invited supporters to shoot guns at a target with DWS written across the target  Oct 2009

And tonight FBI arrests a man for threatening the lives of staff of Sen Micheal Bennett of Colorado

I agree that rhetoric on both sides and especially that of tv/radio talking heads and bloggers.  But I don't see the left going to such extremes as listed above
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,420
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #154 on: January 10, 2011, 08:20:07 PM »
Everybody does it ::)
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #155 on: January 10, 2011, 08:20:42 PM »
Zach

Here's the part I don't get.  How can anyone who owns a working semiautomatic pistol claim to be a "responsible gun owner"?

They aren't good for hunting.

They go far beyond anything one would need for self defense against any one or two individuals.

The reasons people seem to cite for owning them is that they are "fun to shoot" or "look cool".  But those are hardly responsible attitudes towards deadly armory.

I grew up with rifles and shotguns, went hunting with my Dad and all that.  But I just don't get why these count as guns that responsible gun owners defend.
A


Protection and Pistol shooting competitions. It's a sport just like any other sport, until you use it for unintented purposes then it goes criminal, like in Tucson. Cars are the same until you decide to drive one into a group of people and you never know when some derainged person is going to do it. We don't ban cars because some jerk drove into a crowd of people.

Offline Assurbanipal

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,173
  • Taking a forums break, still see PM's
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #156 on: January 10, 2011, 08:26:48 PM »
Protection and Pistol shooting competitions. It's a sport just like any other sport, until you use it for unintented purposes then it goes criminal, like in Tucson. Cars are the same until you decide to drive one into a group of people and you never know when some derainged person is going to do it. We don't ban cars because some jerk drove into a crowd of people.

But cars have a non-racing purpose.  There are responsible uses -- in fact most uses are responsible.  And race cars are not used in terrorism and crime the way semiautomatic pistols are.

 These weapons (semi-automatic pistols) have zero non-recreational peacetime uses. 

None

It is not responsible to defend keeping them legal if they are frequently used in crime and terrorism and they have solely recreational peacetime uses. 
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline woodshere

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,477
  • ain't no shame in my game
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #157 on: January 10, 2011, 08:32:50 PM »
Protection and Pistol shooting competitions. It's a sport just like any other sport, until you use it for unintented purposes then it goes criminal, like in Tucson. Cars are the same until you decide to drive one into a group of people and you never know when some derainged person is going to do it. We don't ban cars because some jerk drove into a crowd of people.

I wonder how many people have been killed by those crazies driving cars into crowds and how many people have been killed by a nut opening fire in a crowd or school?  

I can't understand whats wrong with some training and background checks for gun owners, obviously the Gov of AZ and its legislature don't agree as she just signed on Friday legislation that will allow people 21 or older to forego background checks and classes that are now required.

"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #158 on: January 10, 2011, 08:39:47 PM »
These car analogies just do not ring true. In order to become a licensed driver, one must attend classes and pass not only a written, but also a practical test. In order to become a licensed gun owner, all you have to do is not have a criminal record. INfuckingSANE. Scandalous. 
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline zach

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,788
  • built to last
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #159 on: January 10, 2011, 08:40:51 PM »
point taken


I can only speak for myself. I didn't have handguns until I was in the military. And although I have a concealed carry permit, I never have, they are always in a safe. I'll just say that maybe I've been too vocal in this thread. And bow out with a salute to Colonel Badger.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/heroes-rep-gabrielle-giffords-shooting-tucson-arizona-subdued/story?id=12580345

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #160 on: January 10, 2011, 08:43:29 PM »
I wonder how many people have been killed by those crazies driving cars into crowds and how many people have been killed by a nut opening fire in a crowd or school?  

I can't understand whats wrong with some training and background checks for gun owners, obviously the Gov of AZ and its legislature don't agree as she just signed on Friday legislation that will allow people 21 or older to forego background checks and classes that are now required.


Google it and you find plenty of articles where people ran down people with cars.

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #161 on: January 10, 2011, 08:48:57 PM »
Google it and you find plenty of articles where people ran down people with cars.

These car analogies just do not ring true. In order to become a licensed driver, one must attend classes and pass not only a written, but also a practical test. In order to become a licensed gun owner, all you have to do is not have a criminal record. INfuckingSANE. Scandalous. 

Duh. ::)
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #162 on: January 10, 2011, 08:49:43 PM »
These car analogies just do not ring true. In order to become a licensed driver, one must attend classes and pass not only a written, but also a practical test. In order to become a licensed gun owner, all you have to do is not have a criminal record. INfuckingSANE. Scandalous. 
Really? What makes the difference if you have training or not if you want to kill a bunch of people with a gun or a car? Does the training  just make you a better killer? It's criminal all the way and most people aren't criminals and wouldn't think of doing such a thing.

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,706
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #163 on: January 10, 2011, 09:03:18 PM »



    Video of responsible gun owners having fun at the gun range:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vPnMbLr5nc
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline woodshere

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,477
  • ain't no shame in my game
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #164 on: January 10, 2011, 09:06:21 PM »
When it comes to gun control those of us who favor extremely strict laws will  never win out because we always run up against our opponents use of the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution.  And goodness knows if it was written 230 yrs or so ago it applies today.  However at least somewhere along the way sane minds realized that you can't count a person as 3/5 of a person and changed that.  Some smart people also realized what a mistake the 18th amendment was and repealed that.  And let's not forget that when The Constitution was read in Congress last week someone decided not to include all of it in the reading.  
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline Assurbanipal

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,173
  • Taking a forums break, still see PM's
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #165 on: January 10, 2011, 09:16:57 PM »
The analogy to a car is quite a stretch. 

First, it fails simply by the names.  Things have names to describe what they do.

A race car is for racing.  If used irresponsibly it endangers primarily the driver and secondarily those who have come to watch the race.  Third parties are rarely at risk.

A semiautomatic assault weapon has a primary use of assaulting others. While it can be used for recreation, that is not the primary (named) purpose.  If used irresponsibly it endangers primarily others who did not intend to have anything to do with the object.

A better analogy might be nuclear tipped missiles.  I bet they are a blast to set up and explode (in more senses of the word than one).  But they have no non-recreational peacetime use.  Their primary (named) purpose is to serve as a missile.  If used irresponsibly they primarily endanger third parties who were not interested in being involved in exploding them.

Do you agree it is irresponsible to sell nuclear tipped missiles at gun shows and to hobbyists? 
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,420
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #166 on: January 10, 2011, 09:31:13 PM »
sigh

"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,288
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #167 on: January 10, 2011, 09:33:59 PM »
The analogy to a car is quite a stretch. 

First, it fails simply by the names.  Things have names to describe what they do.

A race car is for racing.  If used irresponsibly it endangers primarily the driver and secondarily those who have come to watch the race.  Third parties are rarely at risk.

A semiautomatic assault weapon has a primary use of assaulting others. While it can be used for recreation, that is not the primary (named) purpose.  If used irresponsibly it endangers primarily others who did not intend to have anything to do with the object.

A better analogy might be nuclear tipped missiles.  I bet they are a blast to set up and explode (in more senses of the word than one).  But they have no non-recreational peacetime use.  Their primary (named) purpose is to serve as a missile.  If used irresponsibly they primarily endanger third parties who were not interested in being involved in exploding them.

Do you agree it is irresponsible to sell nuclear tipped missiles at gun shows and to hobbyists? 
Nuclear weapons aren't sold at gun shows. ) Is that your analogy?  

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #168 on: January 10, 2011, 09:39:15 PM »
Nuclear weapons aren't sold at gun shows. ) Is that your analogy?   

It's a better analogy than cars.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline WillyWump

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,238
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #169 on: January 10, 2011, 09:42:04 PM »

Here's the part I don't get.  How can anyone who owns a working semiautomatic pistol claim to be a "responsible gun owner"?

They go far beyond anything one would need for self defense against any one or two individuals.


I own a 9mm semi pistol. Have had it for 16 years. Am I not a responsible Gun owner?

Why do I have it? for personal protection in my home. I prefer it over my 38 which only holds 5 rounds.  Do I not have the right to have a rapid fire pistol which can hold 16 rounds in my home to defend myself against what some of the thugs here in SA have illegally?

-Will
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
11-6-14 CD4- 871, UD
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,420
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #170 on: January 10, 2011, 09:46:32 PM »
I'd almost bet money that I've lived in more dangerous environments for the past 25 years than most anyone here and yet I've never felt the need to go buy a gun.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline komnaes

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,898
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #171 on: January 10, 2011, 09:47:48 PM »
It's a better analogy than cars.

.. and wait for the corkscrew analogy coming to a forum near you soon..
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #172 on: January 10, 2011, 09:53:21 PM »
I'd almost bet money that I've lived in more dangerous environments for the past 25 years than most anyone here and yet I've never felt the need to go buy a gun.

You and me both, sweetie. I don't even own a slingshot nor would I want to.

Hell, I used to score drugs in Spanish Harlem as well as the South Bronx. Gun? No need.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline WillyWump

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,238
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #173 on: January 10, 2011, 09:55:39 PM »
I'd almost bet money that I've lived in more dangerous environments for the past 25 years than most anyone here and yet I've never felt the need to go buy a gun.

Well that's great P. But how by owning a semi am I not a "responsible gun owner" as Assurb pronounces?
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
11-6-14 CD4- 871, UD
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline Assurbanipal

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,173
  • Taking a forums break, still see PM's
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #174 on: January 10, 2011, 10:01:11 PM »
I own a 9mm semi pistol. Have had it for 16 years. Am I not a responsible Gun owner?

Why do I have it? for personal protection in my home. I prefer it over my 38 which only holds 5 rounds.  Do I not have the right to have a rapid fire pistol which can hold 16 rounds in my home to defend myself against what some of the thugs here in SA have illegally?

-Will

That is a difficult argument to make.  Why do you need a semiautomatic weapon that fires 30 rounds?  Are 5 rounds insufficient to protect you against your fears?  If you live in such a dangerous neighborhood perhaps you should move or hire guards.  I don't think you are entitled to install a machine gun nest or buy nuclear tipped missiles just because you are afraid.

And if the bad guys didn't have semiautomatic weapons freely available to them would you feel more safe?

One could go on and on arguendo  Where would you draw the line between responsible weapons and irresponsible gun ownership?  

I suppose my argument boils down to this.  If someone is incapable of drawing a line between responsible and irresponsible categories of guns for private ownership, it rather takes that person out of the "responsible gun owner" category (because s/he has adopted a definition that makes the word "responsible" irrelevant).  

Edits .... Can spell, can't type, doesn't always spell check
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 10:13:01 PM by Assurbanipal »
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #175 on: January 10, 2011, 10:06:59 PM »

I suppose my argument boils down to this.  If someone is incapable of drawing a line between responsible and irresponsible categories of guns for private ownership, it rather takes that person out of the "responsible gun owner" category (because s/he has adopted a definition that makes the word "responsible" irreleveant). 

Yup.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,706
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #176 on: January 10, 2011, 10:24:57 PM »
.. and wait for the corkscrew analogy coming to a forum near you soon..

fuckin dammit!!  I was just about to say.....
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline WillyWump

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,238
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #177 on: January 10, 2011, 10:25:52 PM »
That is a difficult argument to make.  Why do you need a semiautomic weapon that fires 30 rounds?
  

Reread my post, my clip holds 16 rounds not 30. Btw, I am absolutely for a renewal of the ban outlawing high capacity clips

Are 5 rounds insufficent to protect you against your fears?  
  

Thats correct, 5 rounds cannot compete with a semiauto that holds 15-30 which is the gun of choice for the home invading thugs, and as a responsible gun owner I have a right to choose a gun that I am comfortable with.

I wont go into your petty "fear" BS and installing nuclear weapons or whatever.

And if the bad guys didn't have semiautomatic weapons freely available to them would you feel more safe?


If you aluding to the gun control issue , If you think "bad guys" wouldnt have guns even with strict gun control you are living in a fantasy world.

Basically you are throwing down this threshold of whether or not a person owns a revolver or a semi pistol to decide whether or not a person is a "Responsible gun owner". Is it not a persons state of mind that would be more in line with determining whether a person is a responsible gun owner? Can a person who owns a revolver who leaves it out for his children to play with be considered a "Responsible gun owner"? I think not. It is all about the mindset and respect for the weapon and respect for the knolwedge of what harm that weapon can do regardless whether it is a revovler or a semi.

W
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 10:48:44 PM by WillyWump »
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
11-6-14 CD4- 871, UD
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Online Joe K

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3,838
  • 31 Years Poz
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #178 on: January 10, 2011, 10:28:16 PM »
In the America I envision, this is what would have occurred this morning.

Congress would assemble on the steps of the Capital, with President Obama stating that all members of Congress had demanded the following:

That political discourse was sacrosanct and could only truly exist in a respectful and save environment. Therefore, both political parties have agreed that no longer will vitriol and suggested violence, against any individual or group be tolerated.  They will insist that each and every member of Congress, who has ever promoted, or even suggested violence against any group, for any reason, to repudiate those actions, or be removed from Congress immediately.

Acknowledging the nature of the latest tragedy, Congress would announce a major overhaul of the mental health care system in America and pledge appropriate funding to assure adequate care.

Congress would instruct various federal agencies to clean up the airwaves.  To do this, anyone in the radio and TV media, would immediately need to repudiate their own suggestions of violence, against any individual or group, or lose their license to broadcast.

Congress would declare that gun violence has reached epidemic proportions in America and declare a state of national emergency.  Legislation would be devised, restricting the sale of assault weapons and all automatic weapons to the military, state militias and law enforcement.  The federal law would be imposed in all 50 states, no exceptions.

Finally, on behalf of Congress, President Obama would apologize to the American people, for the sorry state of affairs that has developed, because Congress had forgotten exactly who they represent.

Lastly and most important, Congress would ban all political contributions, for campaigning and create a federal election fund, that would be mandatory for any candidate for public office in America.

That's what should happen.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 10:30:08 PM by killfoile »

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,706
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #179 on: January 10, 2011, 10:33:59 PM »


   I'm just glad we are having this conversation online and not face to face....  The Wumpster has me kinda scared right now.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline WillyWump

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,238
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #180 on: January 10, 2011, 10:39:03 PM »

   I'm just glad we are having this conversation online and not face to face....  The Wumpster has me kinda scared right now.

Oh please, I am a lovable little kitten. Just dont break down my door in the middle of the night or I gonna cap you azz/

-W
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
11-6-14 CD4- 871, UD
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,420
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #181 on: January 10, 2011, 10:51:40 PM »

Hell, I used to score drugs in Spanish Harlem as well as the South Bronx. Gun? No need.

Been there, done that -- of course, I had a Dominican with me for guidance, protection and sexual healing:)
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline komnaes

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,898
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #182 on: January 10, 2011, 11:14:09 PM »

If you aluding to the gun control issue , If you think "bad guys" wouldnt have guns even with strict gun control you are living in a fantasy world.


I often find this argument very limp. In countries where there are strict gun laws, only really hardcore organized and gang-type criminals have the means to obtain guns. They use guns for "bigger" jobs (like bank robberies, etc) and violence against each other. So guns don't usually find their ways to lesser "thugs" for home invading purposes. And in countries with very strict gun control, like in Hong Kong, the penalty of simply possessing guns is often higher than committing small crimes like robbery. The costs (not just for obtaining guns, but also the consequences of being caught) are simply too high.

It doesn't mean of course we have fewer crimes here, but surely we have a lot less involving guns, and in turn none of us would ever think it's necessary to own guns for protection. We just go buy and install some extra locks.
Aug 07 Diagnosed
Oct 07 CD4=446(19%) Feb 08 CD4=421(19%)
Jun 08 CD4=325(22%) Jul 08 CD4=301(18%)
Sep 08 CD4=257/VL=75,000 Oct 08 CD4=347(16%)
Dec 08 CD4=270(16%)
Jan 09 CD4=246(13%)/VL=10,000
Feb 09 CD4=233(15%)/VL=13,000
Started meds Sustiva/Epzicom
May 09 CD4=333(24%)/VL=650
Aug 09 CD4=346(24%)/VL=UD
Nov 09 CD4=437(26%)/VL=UD
Feb 10 CD4=471(31%)/VL=UD
June 10 CD4=517 (28%)/VL=UD
Sept 10 CD4=687 (31%)/VL=UD
Jan 11 CD4=557 (30%)/VL=UD
April 11 CD4=569 (32%)/VL=UD
Switched to Epizcom, Reyataz and Norvir
(Interrupted for 2 months with only Epizcom & Reyataz)
July 11 CD=520 (28%)/VL=UD
Oct 11 CD=771 (31%)/VL=UD(<30)
April 12 CD=609 (28%)/VL=UD(<20)
Aug 12 CD=657 (29%)/VL=UD(<20)
Dec 12 CD=532 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
May 13 CD=567 (31%)/VL=UD(<20)
Jan 14 CD=521 (21%)/VL=UD(<50)

Offline edfu

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,084
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #183 on: January 11, 2011, 01:15:33 AM »
Supreme goddess (and AIDS activist) Rachel Maddow helps us remember some past U.S. shooting massacres.  Tragically, as is evident even from this thread alone, we are still condemned to repeat the past.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1MrT3O-TBg
« Last Edit: January 11, 2011, 02:03:40 AM by edfu »
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,420
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #184 on: January 11, 2011, 09:15:47 AM »
Nothing to see here folks, just move on along...
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Online mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,038
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #185 on: January 13, 2011, 01:08:53 PM »
Obama's visit and memorial address in Arizona.

I dunno, fine enough to pay respects.  Make some concise insightful comments to the press.

I think Obama milked his memorial address a bit too much, for politics.  He looked smug.  The speech was too "lofty" and statesmanlike, yet with frequent ill-making moments of familiarity with the injured and slain, calling them by their first names - huh? I don't know these people and certainly don't know their first names - listing all their qualities, etc.  He used way too many "our"s and "we"s.  

I felt Obama and his speech writers trying to manipulate me into a common goal - that was the "style" of the rhetoric but also the content of the presidential address - that finally I felt LESS unity, after listening to him.  I don't understand why he made it such a pompous address with the Presidential Seal etc etc.  Why didn't he go, pay his respects, obviously be photographed doing so, and make a short formal statement.  Somehow it seemed more about him being presidential than the dead.  

If it was the random nihilistic work of a nut case - and end of story - I don't see why this has to be so "national event"-y.    
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 07:02:55 AM by mecch »
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline ds4146

  • Member
  • Posts: 317
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #186 on: January 13, 2011, 09:04:50 PM »
I have to agree Mecch. There were some very moving lines in his speech, but when all was said and done I felt that he was campaigning for reelection. And the Arizona, psycho Governor, whoa.....talk about someone who might need evaluation for mental stability.

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,993
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #187 on: January 13, 2011, 09:18:20 PM »
Obama's visit and memorial address in Arizona.

I dunno, fine enough to pay respects.  Make some concise insightful comments to the press.

I think Obama milked his memorial address a bit too much, for politics.  He looked smug.  The speech was too "lofty" and statesmanlike, yet with frequent ill-making moments of familiarity with the injured and slain, calling them by their first names - huh? I don't know these people and certainly don't know their first names - listing all their qualities, etc.  He used way too many "our"s and "we"s.  

I felt Obama and his speech writers trying to manipulate me into a common goal - that was the "style" of the rhetoric but also the content of the presidential address - that finally I felt LESS unity, after listening to him.  I don't understand why he made it such a pompous address with the Presidential Seal etc etc.  Why didn't he go, pay his respects, obviously be photographed doing so, and make a short formal statement.  Somehow it seemed more about him being presidential than than the dead. 

If it was the random nihilistic work of a nut case - and end of story - I don't see why this has to be so "national event"-y.    


Pomposity heal thyself.

Offline phildinftlaudy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,975
  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #188 on: January 13, 2011, 09:37:40 PM »
Obama's visit and memorial address in Arizona.

The speech was too "lofty" and statesmanlike, yet with frequent ill-making moments of familiarity with the injured and slain, calling them by their first names - huh? I don't know these people and certainly don't know their first names - listing all their qualities, etc.  He used way too many "our"s and "we"s.  

I don't understand why he made it such a pompous address with the Presidential Seal etc etc.  

If it was the random nihilistic work of a nut case - and end of story - I don't see why this has to be so "national event"


And what, pray tell, would your speech have sounded like?  You are so so right, I mean, why didn't he just refer to the slain as "those people" -- would that have made you happy?

Why a national event?  Let's see - a Congresswoman nearly killed and a federal judge murdered.... I think that qualifies.

Seems to me, with someone giving a critique who doesn't even live in the United States that it might even qualify as an international event.  Please let OUR President address OUR nation the way he sees fit - let US decide the "appropriateness" of his words and/or appearance. 

Oh and the Presidential seal is the appropriate protocol for the President of the United States to stand behind in such a setting.
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,706
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #189 on: January 13, 2011, 09:41:44 PM »
Obama's visit and memorial address in Arizona.

I dunno, fine enough to pay respects.  Make some concise insightful comments to the press.

I think Obama milked his memorial address a bit too much, for politics.  He looked smug.  The speech was too "lofty" and statesmanlike, yet with frequent ill-making moments of familiarity with the injured and slain, calling them by their first names - huh? I don't know these people and certainly don't know their first names - listing all their qualities, etc.  He used way too many "our"s and "we"s.  

I felt Obama and his speech writers trying to manipulate me into a common goal - that was the "style" of the rhetoric but also the content of the presidential address - that finally I felt LESS unity, after listening to him.  I don't understand why he made it such a pompous address with the Presidential Seal etc etc.  Why didn't he go, pay his respects, obviously be photographed doing so, and make a short formal statement.  Somehow it seemed more about him being presidential than than the dead. 

If it was the random nihilistic work of a nut case - and end of story - I don't see why this has to be so "national event"-y.    

I have to agree Mecch. There were some very moving lines in his speech, but when all was said and done I felt that he was campaigning for reelection. And the Arizona, psycho Governor, whoa.....talk about someone who might need evaluation for mental stability.

And I have to disagree.  I can't believe someone can watch a memorial service and put such focus on our President and his motives.    
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline WillyWump

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,238
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #190 on: January 13, 2011, 09:46:09 PM »
I thought Obama's speech was amazing, (which is rare for me). I thought it served it's purpose, and I kinda felt good in a healing kind of way. He's a great orator, and it showed last night. Yes, there were some awkward applause in the wrong places but I guess whatever.

-W
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
11-6-14 CD4- 871, UD
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline phildinftlaudy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,975
  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #191 on: January 13, 2011, 09:49:13 PM »
And I have to disagree.  I can't believe someone can watch a memorial service and put such focus on our President and his motives.    
I'm waiting for Mr. Blackwell's critique of the First Lady's attire to be laid upon us next.....

14,000 in the audience; 13,000 in overflow room; millions watching on TV - and our President didn't point blame - didn't incite anger or hate - but rather provided a tribute to those killed and injured and honored those who were heroes that day.

I agree Skeebo - focusing on what one perceives as the President and his motives when a memorial service is being conducted says more about the character of the person who would do such a thing and post about it in such an arrogant, self-inflated way that more than outshines any motive (real or perceived) that the President may or may not have had during his speech.
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline jkinatl2

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,007
  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #192 on: January 13, 2011, 09:50:11 PM »
And what, pray tell, would your speech have sounded like?  You are so so right, I mean, why didn't he just refer to the slain as "those people" -- would that have made you happy?

Why a national event?  Let's see - a Congresswoman nearly killed and a federal judge murdered.... I think that qualifies.

Seems to me, with someone giving a critique who doesn't even live in the United States that it might even qualify as an international event.  Please let OUR President address OUR nation the way he sees fit - let US decide the "appropriateness" of his words and/or appearance. 

Oh and the Presidential seal is the appropriate protocol for the President of the United States to stand behind in such a setting.

Fox News said roughly the same thing as the quoted poster. I was (incredibly) even more disgusted with them then before. Smug condescension it a terrible look for a right wing news commentator. It is an equally inappropriate look for someone grappling with a deadly illness.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline phildinftlaudy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,975
  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #193 on: January 13, 2011, 09:52:07 PM »
I thought Obama's speech was amazing, (which is rare for me). I thought it served it's purpose, and I kinda felt good in a healing kind of way. He's a great orator, and it showed last night. Yes, there were some awkward applause in the wrong places but I guess whatever.

-W

I agree Will -
I think that there would have been awkwardness no matter who the speaker or what was said -- there is no easy way to deal with a tragedy such as what occurred.  I think that the message was hope and support --- rather than understanding (of which there can be none with the event that occurred).
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline phildinftlaudy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,975
  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #194 on: January 13, 2011, 09:55:56 PM »
Fox News said roughly the same thing as the quoted poster. I was (incredibly) even more disgusted with them then before. Smug condescension it a terrible look for a right wing news commentator. It is an equally inappropriate look for someone grappling with a deadly illness.


Definitely ---I agree completely.
At least we know Fox news' agenda.... the same can't be said for the pomposity of an individual who feels it is his place to judge, rate and assign what he thinks is the appropriate role is and response is for our President.
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline aztecan

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,404
  • 29 years positive, 57 years a pain in the butt
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #195 on: January 14, 2011, 12:17:49 AM »
 

If it was the random nihilistic work of a nut case - and end of story - I don't see why this has to be so "national event"-y.

It is a national event because a member of Congress was nearly assassinated, and in the fracas, others, including a 9-year-old girl and a federal judge, were murdered in cold blood.

It was a national event because the lunatic who committed these acts spewed some anti-government rhetoric, which led some to conclude the guy was fed on the poison being spewed buy the talking heads who appear on what can laughingly be called broadcast news.

It was a national event because it actually led people to question the atmosphere of hate now filling the airwaves and broadsheets.

Perhaps you have lived as an expatriot for too long and haven't been assailed by the hate speech with which we now find ourselves inundated. The septic sewage being spewed has reached toxic levels.

I think President Obama's speech was timely and well done.

For the record, I don't think Loughner was motivated by hate speech, I think he is insane.

But if this tragedy could nudge us into finally admitting there is an atmosphere of hate that surrounds us and, maybe, decide it is not how we wish to live, then perhaps some good can be rescued from this dreadful occurrence.

That is why it is a national event.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 12:19:41 AM by aztecan »
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline phildinftlaudy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,975
  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #196 on: January 14, 2011, 12:20:48 AM »
It is a national event because a member of Congress was nearly assassinated, and in the fracas, others, including a 9-year-old girl and a federal judge, were murdered in cold blood.

It was a national event because the lunatic who committed these acts spewed some anti-government rhetoric, which led some to conclude the guy was fed on the poison being spewed buy the talking heads who appear on what can laughingly be called broadcast news.

It was a national event because it actually led people to question the atmosphere of hate now filling the airwaves and broadsheets.

Perhaps you have lived as an expatriot for too long and haven't been assailed by the hate speech with which we now find ourselves inundated. The septic sewage being spewed has reached toxic levels.

I think President Obama's speech was timely and well done.

For the record, I don't think Loughner was motivated by hate speech, I think he is insane.

But if this tragedy could nudge us into finally admitting there is an atmosphere of hate that surrounds us and, maybe, decide it is not how we wish to live, then perhaps some good can be rescued from this dreadful occurrence.

That is why it is a national event.

Very well said Mark --- Thanks!
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,706
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #197 on: January 14, 2011, 12:32:35 AM »
It is a national event because a member of Congress was nearly assassinated, and in the fracas, others, including a 9-year-old girl and a federal judge, were murdered in cold blood.

It was a national event because the lunatic who committed these acts spewed some anti-government rhetoric, which led some to conclude the guy was fed on the poison being spewed buy the talking heads who appear on what can laughingly be called broadcast news.

It was a national event because it actually led people to question the atmosphere of hate now filling the airwaves and broadsheets.

Perhaps you have lived as an expatriot for too long and haven't been assailed by the hate speech with which we now find ourselves inundated. The septic sewage being spewed has reached toxic levels.

I think President Obama's speech was timely and well done.

For the record, I don't think Loughner was motivated by hate speech, I think he is insane.

But if this tragedy could nudge us into finally admitting there is an atmosphere of hate that surrounds us and, maybe, decide it is not how we wish to live, then perhaps some good can be rescued from this dreadful occurrence.

That is why it is a national event.


BRAVO!!

Mark, there are a few people I've always wanted to meet in person from the forums.  Above is just an example why you were always one of them.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Online mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,038
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #198 on: January 14, 2011, 06:58:36 AM »
I'm waiting for Mr. Blackwell's critique of the First Lady's attire to be laid upon us next.....

14,000 in the audience; 13,000 in overflow room; millions watching on TV - and our President didn't point blame - didn't incite anger or hate - but rather provided a tribute to those killed and injured and honored those who were heroes that day.

I agree Skeebo - focusing on what one perceives as the President and his motives when a memorial service is being conducted says more about the character of the person who would do such a thing and post about it in such an arrogant, self-inflated way that more than outshines any motive (real or perceived) that the President may or may not have had during his speech.

You are one transparent, middlebrow flamer.  

I subsequently watched my news rounds - Anderson Cooper, Maddow, Slate, etc. and many pundits on left and right analyzed his speech.  Making similar observations.  

Why dont you put me on ignore since i annoy you so much so personally that you feel compelled to lash out personally every so often - when I dunno, you could STICK TO THE SUBJECT.  Oh and your cheap personal criticism is ignorant, by the way.  Since I am American and vote in the US, pay taxes, and grew up there.  

Ta ta dearie. One too many easy name calling substituting for intelligent debate. Ignored.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 07:38:47 AM by mecch »
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Online mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,038
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Ariz. Congresswoman Shot
« Reply #199 on: January 14, 2011, 07:23:56 AM »
Oh, and for some of the rest of you. Keep it on subject. Pot kettle????? Some of you hijacked this tread into pretty lame tangents - and hardly respectful - and I didn't call YOU names.  At least my posts all through have been on topic.

This speech can be compared to Clinton's 1995 speech after Oklahoma, which buries Obama's in quality and concision. I felt that speech.  I didn't feel Obama's here.

http://www.presidentialrhetoric.com/historicspeeches/clinton/oklahomacity.html

Obama's speech had an unfortunate stump speech feeling to it.  That's all I'm saying.  I don't think he did bad, but it could have been better.

You all love it, feel free! I'm not gonna call you arrogant for your opinions.  I have some strange bedfellows in my reaction to this speech, but my reaction was true and hardly unique.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.