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Author Topic: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell  (Read 7702 times)

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Offline woodshere

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The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« on: December 18, 2010, 12:13:37 PM »
The US Senate just advanced a bill to end DADT.  The test vote passed 63-33 all but assuring the end to this discriminatory policy!!!!
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2010, 01:22:03 PM »
This is so wonderful and of course so long overdue. It will take about 2 months iron out some details but the policy is now essentially overturned.

Feeling very emotional about this and how it affects so many who have discharged as well as the uncountable numbers who have had to hide who they are. Rock on you mighty peeps who have served your country so generously in the face of such despicable treatment in the past. Shame on McCain and other looney bigots who fought this change.

But this is too happy a time to waste on the negative. We sure needed some encouraging news for a change and this is a wonderful, wonderful victory -- for everyone really.

BIG WAHOO!
« Last Edit: December 18, 2010, 02:17:46 PM by Andy Velez »
Andy Velez

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2010, 01:23:24 PM »
OMG OBAMA IS A WIMP WHO CAN'T FULFILL CAMPAIGN PROMIES

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/12/dadt_repeal_passes_key_vote.html

/snar (to the concern trolls on this board)
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline woodshere

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2010, 02:02:09 PM »
Well now Miss P I was one of those who said after the tax bill compromise was reached that Obama needed to grow a pair.  I also said that he had done a lot, I was just pissed that my Senator the asshole Mitch McConnell was succeeding once again.  In retrospect I guess it was the political thing to do.  The repeal would never have happened had he not compromised and hopefully the START treating will be passed.  The opposing side was not going to give any had the tax bill not been passed.  Plus next year and in the 2012 campaign the Republicans would have said he raised taxes and the Republicans had come in to once again give tax relief to the American people. So all in all I guess it worked out for the best.

Signed
Woods, who is not afraid to admit he made a mistake or rushed to judgement!
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline anniebc

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2010, 04:24:26 PM »
That's wonderful news.

Aroha
Jan :-*
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Offline odyssey

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2010, 04:26:07 PM »
The repeal of DADT was passed by the Senate 65-31 and now goes on to the President for his signature.
01/09/09- diagnosed HIV+
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Offline Jeff G

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2010, 04:31:15 PM »
Now watch John McCain try throwing all the gays out of the military for ling about being gay .  

But seriously ... its a great day for those who wish to serve . Its also an opportunity to have it on record witch of our politicians came down on the right side of history .
« Last Edit: December 18, 2010, 04:35:27 PM by jg1962 »

Offline edfu

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2010, 01:57:02 AM »
As one of Miss P's (is that "Philicia" or "Pollyanna"?) favorite "concern trolls" on this board, I feel it my moral duty to register some caution about today's significant event in the Senate. The last major legislative obstacle may have been overcome (until January and the new Congress), but repeal of DADT is NOT FINAL.  We are only one step closer but with many more miles to go.  It is still not safe for gay military members to come out of the closet.

Even after the President signs the bill, no one can serve openly.  Because of the backroom deal agreed to by our great Compromiser-in-Chief (how sad he does not know how to be Commander-in-Chief, and how pathetic that health care, tax reform, and now DADT termination have been watered down so significantly by his middle-of-the-night "compromises"), all of the following must take place first:

*The military must write and formalize the details and implementation of the DADT termination.  The period of time for implementation HAS NOT BEEN DETERMINED. (I'm not a gambler, but I'd be willing to wager that this will end up as longer than one year.)  

*Certification is required to be made not only by the President but also by the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Secretary of Defense.

*Then there must be a 60-day Congressional waiting period.  

Even more ominously, a senior White House official this evening stated that no plans have been made to suspend DADT investigations or discharges during this unknown period of time, even though Harry Reid and other prominent Democrat politicians have urged this.

So please celebrate.  What happened today is momentous.  However, please don't act like the struggle is over, complete, and finished.  It is not.

P.S.  For a more detailed explanation of this whole process see this:

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/12/18/gays-in-the-military-still-illegal-for-time-being/?icid=main%7Chtmlws-main-n%7Cdl1%7Csec3_lnk1%7C190841

Edited to add link.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2010, 10:11:39 AM by edfu »
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2010, 02:38:57 AM »
I thank the 8 Republican senators who joined with Dems to repeal.  But just 8!  Sad.  You can't get the kind of support this had on anything in Washington.  This is the party all about "Support Our Troops, They're all heros, 9/11, 9/11."  Now Repubs are blocking money for 9/11 workers healthcare. 

I use to like McCain back in the early part of the decade.  Well, I had respect for him.  He has now become a sad person who is obviously still bitter about not being prez.  It was just sad to see him still pleading today to not pass the repeal.  He brought up how all the liberals will be happy and that many of them have never served a day in the military.  What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China!

I'm not sure how many gay soldiers will now come out of the closet.  I suspect it may not be as many as people might think.  What it will do is allow those soldiers some peace of mind that if anyone did find out, they won't loose everything they've worked so hard for.   

Offline bocker3

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2010, 11:12:21 AM »
As one of Miss P's (is that "Philicia" or "Pollyanna"?) favorite "concern trolls" on this board, I feel it my moral duty to register some caution about today's significant event in the Senate. The last major legislative obstacle may have been overcome (until January and the new Congress), but repeal of DADT is NOT FINAL.  We are only one step closer but with many more miles to go.  It is still not safe for gay military members to come out of the closet.

Even after the President signs the bill, no one can serve openly.  Because of the backroom deal agreed to by our great Compromiser-in-Chief (how sad he does not know how to be Commander-in-Chief, and how pathetic that health care, tax reform, and now DADT termination have been watered down so significantly by his middle-of-the-night "compromises"), all of the following must take place first:

*The military must write and formalize the details and implementation of the DADT termination.  The period of time for implementation HAS NOT BEEN DETERMINED. (I'm not a gambler, but I'd be willing to wager that this will end up as longer than one year.)  

*Certification is required to be made not only by the President but also by the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Secretary of Defense.

*Then there must be a 60-day Congressional waiting period.  

Even more ominously, a senior White House official this evening stated that no plans have been made to suspend DADT investigations or discharges during this unknown period of time, even though Harry Reid and other prominent Democrat politicians have urged this.

So please celebrate.  What happened today is momentous.  However, please don't act like the struggle is over, complete, and finished.  It is not.

P.S.  For a more detailed explanation of this whole process see this:

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/12/18/gays-in-the-military-still-illegal-for-time-being/?icid=main%7Chtmlws-main-n%7Cdl1%7Csec3_lnk1%7C190841

Edited to add link.

It must be tiring to maintain the constant negativity that you project.  Can't folks have ONE FUCKING DAY to celebrate something without you going on and on about what happened that didn't fit your (dare I say Pollyanna) view.
I mean -- would I have liked this to have been swept away instantly, yes.  However, many pieces of legislation need time to implement, so I don't find this all that strange.  What I do find strange is that you think that waving a magic wand will instantly change things -- I'm guessing that you haven't been in the military.
As someone who left the military to protest DADT (and I told everyone on the way out), I am completely thrilled with what has transpired -- we even got about 20% of the Senate Repubs to vote this out.
So take your "moral duty" elsewhere -- at least for a little while and stop shitting on everyone's happiness.  Yes there is more to be done, but that doesn't negate what has been achieved.   ::)

Mike
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2010, 01:28:48 AM »
One of my friends from school wrote this on Facebook:

"Hours ago, the Senate voted to end "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."... Gay and lesbian service members -- brave Americans who enable our freedoms -- will no longer have to hide who they are. The fight for civil rights, a struggle that continues, will no longer include this one."


One of his friends replied with this:

"Big mistake..... men and women serving in the military don't care if there are gay or lesbian service members amongst them, but the LAST thing they want is to know. I've been on patrols where you're issued 1/2 a tent, and you have to hook up with someone else to make your tent. The tent is so tiny you're sleeping on top of each other practically. I really don't want to be snuggling with someone who is "out and pround" on the rainbow patrol."

I don't understand how someone could say this about one of their fellow soldiers.  If you cannot deal with a fellow soldier who is gay, then how in the hell could you deal with the enemy?  I responded to this guy in the nicest way I could.  Since he wasn't my friend, I didn't want to get into an argument in my friend's post.  I'm sure he'll reply that I've not been in the military and don't know what I'm talking about.  If this guy is worried about someone busting a move on him, I would be more worried about men living double lives--the ones married to women while they are really gay.  In my experience, those are the ones who usually act inappropriately.  We've seen this played out with all the "straight" politicians and religious leaders.   

Offline randym431

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2010, 02:39:41 AM »
John McCain must be turning over in his grave over this...

But seriously, McCain should resign. I thought he just had some unfounded concern. An old persons thing.
But on the senate floor he made comments to "a sad day", and "preppies tomorrow in coffee shops hi-five-ing over the victory". He was obviously clueless on what it is to be gay, and lacks any compassion at all.
In fact, McCain's comments on the senate floor were blatantly insulting and reprehensible.
If this were a race thing, McCain would be FORCED to resign over his comments.
It turned out he had no justified concerns after all. Just plain blunt bigotry was his only motivation.
Anyone in such high elected office as he is, that detached from understanding any minority of American citizenship, should never be allowed to have a hand in law making process.
There should be an outcry for him to resign. Period!
This guy isn't just some old detached person. Not just some extreme right wing member.
John McCain let it be known he is purely homophobic and a bigot.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2010, 02:42:06 AM by randym431 »

Offline mecch

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2010, 09:50:37 AM »
Well his wife isn't an idiot and clearly explains her opposing views, so I prefer to see McCain as senile or playing cynical politics.
Equating Gay/Lesbian civil rights to a caprice of ivy league latte drinking activists is a repeating theme these days. Its really meant to slime Obama and his "class" and its nothing but cheap shots.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline denb45

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2010, 10:31:07 AM »
Well his wife isn't an idiot and clearly explains her opposing views, so I prefer to see McCain as senile or playing cynical politics.
Equating Gay/Lesbian civil rights to a caprice of ivy league latte drinking activists is a repeating theme these days. Its really meant to slime Obama and his "class" and its nothing but cheap shots.

FUCK  John MCcain  ??? I don't even like latte's and speaking as a 8 yr. NAVY Veteran, it's down-right EMBARRASSING that John Mccain was even an officer in the Navy let alone being a politician on the senate floor, that's an EMBARRASSMENT as well  >:(
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline Joe K

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2010, 10:33:24 AM »
John McCain must be turning over in his grave over this...

But seriously, McCain should resign. I thought he just had some unfounded concern. An old persons thing.
But on the senate floor he made comments to "a sad day", and "preppies tomorrow in coffee shops hi-five-ing over the victory". He was obviously clueless on what it is to be gay, and lacks any compassion at all.
In fact, McCain's comments on the senate floor were blatantly insulting and reprehensible.
If this were a race thing, McCain would be FORCED to resign over his comments.
It turned out he had no justified concerns after all. Just plain blunt bigotry was his only motivation.
Anyone in such high elected office as he is, that detached from understanding any minority of American citizenship, should never be allowed to have a hand in law making process.
There should be an outcry for him to resign. Period!
This guy isn't just some old detached person. Not just some extreme right wing member.
John McCain let it be known he is purely homophobic and a bigot.

Well his wife isn't an idiot and clearly explains her opposing views, so I prefer to see McCain as senile or playing cynical politics.
Equating Gay/Lesbian civil rights to a caprice of ivy league latte drinking activists is a repeating theme these days. Its really meant to slime Obama and his "class" and its nothing but cheap shots.

McCain may act senile, but he is a bigot to the core. Anyone who thinks his comments are not racist remarks, directed against gay Americans, is disillusioned or intellectually dishonest.  His comments are just a tired continuation of his bigotry and have nothing to do with the U.S. armed services, but everything to do with his vilification of gays.  The man is a disgrace to America.

Offline mecch

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2010, 01:59:22 PM »
Well I have to agree his words and actions are bigoted so in the end, I guess you guys are right.
Its really scary cause he could have been president.
I never got the impression W. was a bigot.  McCain would  have been quite the disaster!
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline denb45

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2010, 03:48:59 PM »
Well I have to agree his words and actions are bigoted so in the end, I guess you guys are right.
Its really scary cause he could have been president.
I never got the impression W. was a bigot.  McCain would  have been quite the disaster!

Gee you think?  no wonder why he didn't  ::)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline madbrain

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2010, 09:59:28 PM »
I never got the impression W. was a bigot. 

I'm sorry, WHAT ??? How much of the W presidency did you spend living in the USA ?

Let's not forget history too quickly here.

Bush personally pushed for a federal constitutional ban on same-sex marriage. Not even McCain supported that.

If that's not bigotry, I don't know what is. And that's only one example.

Offline bocker3

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2010, 08:19:25 PM »
So now we have a Delegate in the Virginia House about to propose a bill to ban "active homosexuals" from the Virginia National Guard.  You see, says he, we don't want someone in a foxhole being distracted by the thought of an active homosexual possible sexually assaulting him (yes, he said this at a press conference).  He also says it's not a 17 year DADT law that was ended, but the "law" of the last 232 years in the US Military that has been thrown aside.  Ugh!

Fortunately, the Governor, although he thinks Congress did the wrong thing in ending DADT, feels that this is now settled, so it stands no real chance of passing, but still................   ::)  I can't believe that I just said something positive about the current VA Governor....

Mike
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Offline denb45

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2010, 08:51:16 PM »
So now we have a Delegate in the Virginia House about to propose a bill to ban "active homosexuals" from the Virginia National Guard.  You see, says he, we don't want someone in a foxhole being distracted by the thought of an active homosexual possible sexually assaulting him (yes, he said this at a press conference).  He also says it's not a 17 year DADT law that was ended, but the "law" of the last 232 years in the US Military that has been thrown aside.  Ugh!

Fortunately, the Governor, although he thinks Congress did the wrong thing in ending DADT, feels that this is now settled, so it stands no real chance of passing, but still................   ::)  I can't believe that I just said something positive about the current VA Governor....

Mike

Fighting for your life, are someones else s in a foxhole defending your own country has NOTHING to do with being Gay or STr8, the very fact that this can be a distraction just floors me, local-law-enforcement  agencies has recognized this for the last 20yrs. ( I use to work for one) no reason why the Military can't
are anyone else for that matter, it's a shame that we still have people in high office that continue to think this way  ???
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline fearless

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2010, 09:24:28 PM »
I like Obama's words:

"I say to all Americans, gay or straight, who want nothing more than to defend this country in uniform, your country needs you, your country wants you, and we will be honored to welcome you into the ranks of the finest military the world has ever known," Obama said.

"No longer will tens of thousands of Americans in uniform be asked to live a lie, or look over their shoulder in order to serve the country that they love," Obama said.

Just ignore the other dimwits.
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline Ann

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2010, 01:32:23 AM »
Fighting for your life, are someones else s in a foxhole defending your own country has NOTHING to do with being Gay or STr8, the very fact that this can be a distraction just floors me, local-law-enforcement  agencies has recognized this for the last 20yrs. ( I use to work for one) no reason why the Military can't
are anyone else for that matter, it's a shame that we still have people in high office that continue to think this way  ???

The foxholes our youngsters are currently occupying have NOTHING to do with defending America or the UK for that matter. It's all about defending the oil companies. Prove me wrong if you can.

So now we have a Delegate in the Virginia House about to propose a bill to ban "active homosexuals" from the Virginia National Guard.  You see, says he, we don't want someone in a foxhole being distracted by the thought of an active homosexual possible sexually assaulting him (yes, he said this at a press conference).  He also says it's not a 17 year DADT law that was ended, but the "law" of the last 232 years in the US Military that has been thrown aside.  Ugh!

Fortunately, the Governor, although he thinks Congress did the wrong thing in ending DADT, feels that this is now settled, so it stands no real chance of passing, but still................   ::)  I can't believe that I just said something positive about the current VA Governor....

Mike

Mike, what the fuck planet has this man lived on during his life? If he thinks there was never a gay man in the US military (or anywhere else for that matter) before 232 years ago then he has absolutely NO right to hold office, for the sheer fact of being fucking plain stupid.

I cannot believe people like this exist in the 21st century. It's all a bad Atripla dream, right? For fuck sake, I can only hope so.
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2010, 03:21:29 AM »
Below is President Obama's speech about the repeal that he gave right before signing the bill.  It reminded me of the 2008 Obama--the Obama we've been waiting to see again.  He has obviously gotten a lot done, but that great orator has been missing.   

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/ns/msnbc_tv-countdown_with_keith_olbermann/#40788172

Offline bocker3

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2010, 08:04:03 AM »
The foxholes our youngsters are currently occupying have NOTHING to do with defending America or the UK for that matter. It's all about defending the oil companies. Prove me wrong if you can.

So, I'm pretty sure that Afghanistan is not an oil exporting country.  I have always thought that W.'s foray into Iraq was beyong stupid, getting rid of the Taliban was another kettle of fish entirely.

Mike, what the fuck planet has this man lived on during his life? If he thinks there was never a gay man in the US military (or anywhere else for that matter) before 232 years ago then he has absolutely NO right to hold office, for the sheer fact of being fucking plain stupid.

I cannot believe people like this exist in the 21st century. It's all a bad Atripla dream, right? For fuck sake, I can only hope so.

This guy (Delegate Robert Marshall) is so far to the right that I'm pretty sure he's in an area that lacks gravity and oxygen.  The VA Republican party even shakes there heads at this guy.  Some are saying he's doing this as a precursor to a run for the US Senate.  He rarely gets anything passed, but he can grab the headlines for days on end.
Nothing would make me happier than for this nutjob to get caught in the middle of a "wide stance".   

Mike
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Offline Ann

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2010, 08:47:35 AM »
So, I'm pretty sure that Afghanistan is not an oil exporting country.  I have always thought that W.'s foray into Iraq was beyong stupid, getting rid of the Taliban was another kettle of fish entirely.


Oh it's about oil all right, and natural gas and oil pipelines and gas pipelines and iron ore and copper and lithium and gems and other mineral resources worth estimates as high as 3 TRILLION bucks. Just google Afghanistan oil and you'll see. 9/11 was just the excuse they needed to go in there and be in a position to control the resources. Remember, not one of the 9/11 hijackers was Afghani. Not one. Nada.

And the US government is responsible for the Taliban being there in the first place. It's scary.

My daughter's bf is currently in Afghanistan and it breaks my heart. He told her the other day that he's going to be out in the field over Christmas and New Year on operations, so he's not even going to have Christmas dinner. My daughter is trying to console herself by hoping that he'll be too busy to miss family and friends at a time of year that is all about loved ones. As a mechanic, he's a driver and I hope he manages to avoid those roadside bombs we're always hearing about. I hope all the troops stay safe. They shouldn't be there. My heart breaks for all of them.
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Offline Merlin

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2010, 09:04:58 AM »
Yup, it's about oil alright.  >:(
You just need to DIG (pun intended) deeper for the truth.  ;D

Whichever way, it's a good start to do away with DADT. It's time humans started treating each other like humans for a change.  :P
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Offline bocker3

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2010, 01:50:43 PM »
Oh it's about oil all right, and natural gas and oil pipelines and gas pipelines and iron ore and copper and lithium and gems and other mineral resources worth estimates as high as 3 TRILLION bucks. Just google Afghanistan oil and you'll see. 9/11 was just the excuse they needed to go in there and be in a position to control the resources. Remember, not one of the 9/11 hijackers was Afghani. Not one. Nada.

And the US government is responsible for the Taliban being there in the first place. It's scary.

So, are you saying we should have attacked Saudi Arabia because of 9/11??  I don't think you are......   It's not about the nationality of the attackers, it was about the country giving safe harbor to the organization.  While I think we do lots of things for control of natural resources, etc -- this is one time I don't agree with that.  Might it part of it, sure -- was it THE reason -- hell no.  We'll probably have to agree to disagree on this.  Of course, the woman who are in schools and in the Afghani government, and working, etc, etc are probably quite greatful that we came in and got the Taliban out.  The mess that exists there today is because W. took his eye of the ball and diverted way too many resources to the fiasco that is Iraq.  I suspect without that distraction, we'd be out of Afganistan by now.

Yes -- we were the cause of the Taliban, no denying that -- but at least we were able to correct that one!

I'll stop the hijack now -- DADT -- goodbye, good riddance.

M
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Offline Grasshopper

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2010, 02:20:18 PM »
So, I'm pretty sure that Afghanistan is not an oil exporting country. 

Something else instead :
"An internal Pentagon memo, for example, states that Afghanistan could become the ďSaudi Arabia of lithium,Ē a key raw material in the manufacture of batteries for laptops and BlackBerrys. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html?_r=1&hp


Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #28 on: December 25, 2010, 06:48:23 PM »
It must be tiring to maintain the constant negativity that you project.

Nonsense Mike, Edina maintains it with aplomb and a dash of klonopin.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline edfu

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2010, 07:09:53 PM »
Nonsense Mike, Edina maintains it with aplomb and a dash of klonopin.

Nonsense, Miss P.  It is true that my aplomb is what keeps me going, but I haven't taken any Klonopin for a year and a half, as I pointed out to you last July:

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=33523.msg414510#msg414510

It is, I suppose, inevitable when old farts like myself espouse reality that some of you kids interpret it as negativity.  I was simply pointing out that DADT had not been repealed by the Senate vote; the legislation passed by that vote only preserves the option of repeal.  DADT won't be repealed until the President, Secretary of Defense, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff decide to do just that.  The ability to get rid of DADT has been granted to them by Congress if they so choose to do so at some undefined point in the future.  There is nothing not true in those previous three sentences. 
« Last Edit: December 26, 2010, 07:30:38 PM by edfu »
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #30 on: December 26, 2010, 08:29:28 PM »
If that doesn't paint the picture of disingenuousness then I'm not sure what else does.  I can no longer read your junior team political analysis with humor any longer.  We'll just have to stick to discussing anal warts I do fear.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline edfu

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2010, 08:41:35 PM »
I'm not surprised you can't point out an error in what I've stated.  So what is my personal "analysis" exactly?   I've simply stated the facts.     
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #32 on: December 26, 2010, 08:45:24 PM »
Like I said a week ago, "concern trolls" (without naming names, naturally).  Let's Fist!
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline bocker3

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #33 on: December 26, 2010, 09:58:46 PM »
It is, I suppose, inevitable when old farts like myself espouse reality that some of you kids interpret it as negativity.  I was simply pointing out that DADT had not been repealed by the Senate vote; the legislation passed by that vote only preserves the option of repeal.  DADT won't be repealed until the President, Secretary of Defense, and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff decide to do just that.  The ability to get rid of DADT has been granted to them by Congress if they so choose to do so at some undefined point in the future.  There is nothing not true in those previous three sentences. 

As one of the "kids" you speak of -- I'll stand by my interpretation of your earlier post.  It didn't say a positive thing about what Congress did -- what it did do was give the impression that this could have happened in some magical, instantaneous wave of a wand.
All the steps you mention, with a hint of disgust -- are necessary in order for things to be done correctly, orderly and uniformly.  I don't think that I need point out the fact that our military is a world-wide operation (regardless of whether one thinks it should be).
What I was refering to in my response to you was your utter lack of anything positive.  So -- it was an easy jump to classify it as negative.  You can now spin it however you'd like, but I still haven't heard anything that even hints at the good thing that just happened.

In closing -- I don't know if you have been personally impacted by DADT, but I have and I am completely thrilled with what transpired in Congress -- it certainly wouldn't have happened under a McCain administration, so continue to be disappointed in Obama all you want -- he's making a difference.  I look forward to when this change is finally implemented. 
You may have 20 or so years on me, but I'm no kid and don't need you telling me things I already know.

Happy New Year -- hope it brings you a glass that is half-filled for a change.

Mike
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Offline edfu

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2010, 11:03:17 PM »
I'll stand by my interpretation of your earlier post.  It didn't say a positive thing about what Congress did
 
What I was refering to in my response to you was your utter lack of anything positive.  So -- it was an easy jump to classify it as negative.  You can now spin it however you'd like, but I still haven't heard anything that even hints at the good thing that just happened.

Really?  What about "So please celebrate.  What happened today is momentous."?

Isn't that positive?  I don't think that's an "utter lack of anything positive" about what Congress did.   It may not have been as much as you would have liked, but my purpose was to point out exactly what was in the text of the bill passed, which no one seemed to be thinking about in the justified euphoria of the moment.  It's not just myself who wished to warn that DADT was not officially over quite yet; Servicemembers United also immediately warned that no one should come out immediately. 

I wish you as well a Happy New Year and hope that your glass remains always half-filled.  I usually wait until mine is empty before refilling.   ;)




"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline bocker3

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2010, 08:08:05 AM »
Really?  What about "So please celebrate.  What happened today is momentous."?

Isn't that positive?  I don't think that's an "utter lack of anything positive" about what Congress did.   It may not have been as much as you would have liked, but my purpose was to point out exactly what was in the text of the bill passed, which no one seemed to be thinking about in the justified euphoria of the moment.  It's not just myself who wished to warn that DADT was not officially over quite yet; Servicemembers United also immediately warned that no one should come out immediately. 

I wish you as well a Happy New Year and hope that your glass remains always half-filled.  I usually wait until mine is empty before refilling.   ;)

Servicemembers United giving a warning to current members of the military is an entirely different thing than your rant about how this didn't simply end to a bunch of civilians.  You weren't warning anyone to not come out in the military, you were not trying to get anyone to read or understand the bill -- you were simply pissing on a celebration.  I have reread your post and I still say you said nothing positive (couching a couple of good words between doom and gloom is not positive sweetheart -- "it's a good thing, BUT.......................).

Had you waited a couple of days or started a different thread, I would have taken your "caution" a bit differently.  However, you couldn't wait to be a Debbie Downer -- it is your standard MO on here, whereever anything Obama is concerned (I know this was Congress, not Obama -- but he did make a promise afterall -- I'm sure you are about to point this out).

DADT is dying -- there is no doubt.  It will be gone as soon as the "how" is figured out.  You actually should go into politics, your penchant for spinning your comments is first rate.

Mike
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Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2011, 05:42:26 AM »
Eitherway, hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

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Offline arachia

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #37 on: January 03, 2011, 10:19:17 AM »
Hey guys...I'm not really new to the site but I really haven't posted or been active in the past but I wanted to jump in here and say to all of those who served...THANK  YOU!!!  I'm ex-Army and I was kicked out of the military for being gay back in 1990.  This was before DADT and trust me it was worse then.  The things they did and said to me were horrendous and led me to a suicide attempt.  Luckily, my military brothers and sisters came to my rescue and saved me.  THAT is what the military is about.  They could give a rat's ass about who you sleep with as long as you have their back when needed.  I was military intelligence with a pretty high clearance and job.  Kicking me out for 'suspicion' of homosexuality when they had absolutely no proof other than the words of another was devastating to me at 20 years old. 

Here's a little information for you.  I was kicked out because of an ex-civilian lover of mine sent a letter to my recruitment office telling them that he wanted me back blah blah blah.  Because of that letter I was pulled off of vacation and pulled into JAG where they sat me down in one of those rooms that has minimal furniture and a two-way mirror on a metal chair after they stripped me naked.  I sat there a good two to three hours (time kinda became surreal at that point) having no idea what was going on or what to do.  They then came in and took pictures of me...naked...every last inch of me...left me sitting again for a few hours.  Then came back with the letter and a serious attitude.  They then brought my clothes to me and told me to get dressed and report back to my unit the following day.  Yeah, they let the whole unit know of course before I was even back the next morning.  I then went to different PXs (stores) and bought all of the sleeping pills and aspirin I could buy that wouldn't be suspicious.  Enough of that part..trust me there is a lot more.

While I was being out processed, carrying around a form that said I was being discharged for "Engaging or attempting to engage in homosexual activity.", I had to face every unit that I was associated with with my head held down in shame for something that was so natural for me. 

There was another guy who was in trouble with JAG and here are his offenses:  Got very drunk, beat and raped his wife, then raped his 12 year old daughter and their neighbor's daughter at the same time.  Then went AWOL (Absent Without Leave) but was caught and brought back. 

I was kicked out for a letter and suspicion that I was gay.  This guy lost one rank.  He went from an E4 to an E3.  I lost my career.  Doesn't sound AS bad to just lose a career, huh?  But just think that at the age of 14 almost 15 my father asked me if I were a homosexual because I didn't get into the tits and ass conversations or work on cars or hunt etc (very deep country Kentucky) and when I said yes (very religious where telling a lie was the biggest sin) I was beaten and kicked out of my house where I lived on the street for almost two years.  Yeah, having this part of DADT taken care of means more to me than I can even express. 

Let's not worry or harp on the fact that it's going to take time or patience.  For some of us, this is something we never thought would happen and it touches a place in our souls that you can't even imagine.

Thanks again for all of your hard work and for those of you who have served...You have my undying gratitude and respect!!!

James aka Semaj
Personal motto:  "What can I do today to better my tomorrow?"

Offline arachia

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #38 on: January 03, 2011, 10:23:03 AM »
To follow up....I'd love to have a meet up or get together...I would be more than willing to host some of us service members both past and present.  If you're interested in either a get together or just a one on one hang out, I'm truly always available!!!  Thanks guys.

Semaj
Personal motto:  "What can I do today to better my tomorrow?"

Offline Jeff G

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #39 on: January 03, 2011, 10:52:07 AM »
Hi arachia . Thank you for sharing your story with us , its people like you that made me get out and vote everytime a candidate made promises about ending DADT .

I appreciate people like you that serves or has served , so a very heartfelt thank you for what you have done .   

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #40 on: January 03, 2011, 11:02:25 AM »
Thanks for your post, arachia.  What a horrific experience to endure, at any age much less at 20.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline ds4146

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2011, 08:14:22 PM »
And then you have "men" like this, and you would have to ask yourself a couple of questions: Is this what we want representing our military?; Is he one of the so called leaders who opposed the repeal?; And doesn't he smell like something slimy waiting to come out of the closet?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40889027/ns/us_news-life

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2011, 03:28:26 AM »
To follow up....I'd love to have a meet up or get together...I would be more than willing to host some of us service members both past and present.  If you're interested in either a get together or just a one on one hang out, I'm truly always available!!!  Thanks guys.

Semaj

I'm sorry that happen to you.  I am ex-Navy and did my full tour of duty, but I came out two minutes after I left the military for I knew what would happen if I was found out to be Gay.  I hear ya.  They basically tortured you, humiliated you, and tried to break you down but I am glad you stood strong.  And I am glad you did not hurt yourself.  My time in was from '78 to '82 and I had realized that, from my experience in the Navy, they are good to you when you "play ball," bad to you when you don't and will try to destroy, kill, or better yet, make you kill yourself if they suspect you are gay.  I guess that was the whole point of what they did to you.  Take care.

red_Dragon888
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Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2011, 03:31:07 AM »
And then you have "men" like this, and you would have to ask yourself a couple of questions: Is this what we want representing our military?; Is he one of the so called leaders who opposed the repeal?; And doesn't he smell like something slimy waiting to come out of the closet?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40889027/ns/us_news-life
This come as no surprise to me.  He just got caught.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=I3ba3lnFHik

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Offline Hoover

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2011, 08:08:10 PM »
God was not happy with the repeal of DADT.
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheIntolerantAtheist

This woman is too good to be real...
SNL could just run it as is.
There are some crazy nuts out there!!!!!

Enjoy,
Hoover and Dr T
Infection date: March 16, 2010
20/05/10 - CD4 348  VL 58,000  Lymph nodes in jaw painful!  Antioxidants started.
01/06/10 - CD4 428  VL?
24/06/10 - CD4 578  VL 9,800
13/07/10 - CD4 620  VL?
04/09/10 - CD4 648  VL?
01/11/10 - CD4 710  VL?   CD8 972
16/12/10    CD4 738  VL?  CD8  896   
02/02/11    CD4 520 (month of parasites and new lab)
14/03/11 started Truvida and Sustiva (Efavirenz)
04/07/11 CD4 686 VL 75 CD8 588  41%
10/10/11 CD4 757  45%  VL UD

Offline Ann

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #45 on: January 10, 2011, 09:17:07 PM »
God was not happy with the repeal of DADT.
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheIntolerantAtheist

This woman is too good to be real...
SNL could just run it as is.
There are some crazy nuts out there!!!!!

Enjoy,
Hoover and Dr T

WTF? The video you link to is a Richard Dawkins lecture. What woman are you talking about? Surely even you realise that Dawkins is of the male gender.
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline edfu

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #46 on: January 10, 2011, 11:38:45 PM »
I believe the video Hoover meant to link is this one, a woman who believes that all the birds that are falling out of the sky and fish are dying because of DADT repeal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V17WGTvPHGg&feature=player_embedded

P.S.  Love that dress and ball-bearing necklace!!!!  Maybe the birds have seen the dress. 
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline Hoover

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #47 on: January 11, 2011, 08:25:28 AM »
Thanks for the save Edfu!
Some days I have too many windows open at a time...

Gotta love her  necklace of Vietnamese Ben Wa balls.

Hoover
Infection date: March 16, 2010
20/05/10 - CD4 348  VL 58,000  Lymph nodes in jaw painful!  Antioxidants started.
01/06/10 - CD4 428  VL?
24/06/10 - CD4 578  VL 9,800
13/07/10 - CD4 620  VL?
04/09/10 - CD4 648  VL?
01/11/10 - CD4 710  VL?   CD8 972
16/12/10    CD4 738  VL?  CD8  896   
02/02/11    CD4 520 (month of parasites and new lab)
14/03/11 started Truvida and Sustiva (Efavirenz)
04/07/11 CD4 686 VL 75 CD8 588  41%
10/10/11 CD4 757  45%  VL UD

Offline Ann

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #48 on: January 11, 2011, 09:30:48 AM »
I believe the video Hoover meant to link is this one, a woman who believes that all the birds that are falling out of the sky and fish are dying because of DADT repeal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V17WGTvPHGg&feature=player_embedded

P.S.  Love that dress and ball-bearing necklace!!!!  Maybe the birds have seen the dress. 

Thanks Ed. I was wondering what was going on! (Are you a mind reader to know which video he meant?)
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline zach

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Re: The End of Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #49 on: January 11, 2011, 09:50:48 AM »
DADT will die, and for the most part it won't be a dramatic death. Ten or twenty years ago the climate was very different. It was never a problem for me, or anyone I served next to either straight or gay. Then, I'm bi, and not really all that open anyway, but I knew plenty of gays and lesbians, and their orientation was no great secret. About damn time.

Good to see other prior service on this board. None of us have ever had anything to be ashamed of.

 


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