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Author Topic: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.  (Read 7741 times)

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Online mecch

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2010, 06:51:52 AM »
and that globalization is speeding along faster than ever.  We just can't compete on wage rates.  
IMHO we need to debase the currency and inflate our way out of debt.  The real value of earnings power falls without lowering salaries drastically.  It brings us closer to par with the rest of the world.  The pain is borne by rich and poor and happens over a few years, not all at once.  

I agree with MIss P.  
The US is never gonna compete on making cheap consumer junk, cause of wage rates. But countries still manage to export and keep living wages. Living wages are legislated, industry businesses and services aren't going to deliver them, necessarily, on their own.
Granted, it would take a pretty huge change in mindset for such changes in the US.
The high progressive income tax that killed the Gilded Age came as a shock to the powerful and rich in the US.  Isn't it telling that when rates fell after WWI, for several years, industry vastly expanded but then also the stock market eventually collapsed. But the Great Depression terribly hurt average people, who were not in the stock market. Remember, there was 25% unemployment.
Progressive taxation rates rose again and WWII and strong unions delivered the US into the golden years of the American Dream (er. white...)

You have to wonder if for China and India etc to get rich, the US has to get poorer.  Spain Portugal and Ireland got European Level rich and it was all a sham.  Greece can't seem to tax any of their rich citizens to justify development it saw over 15 years.

In the absence of really obvious ponzi schemes, where people loose real money forever, these big bank ponzi schemes seem to always benefit the rich of the world, while occasionally rewarding and then beating the average folks.  Average folks in Ireland and average folks in the US are bearing the brunt of what the banks wrought, banks that have been protected from having to put the losses back onto their own upper management (or in the case of investment banks, pretty much all their employees) and their richest investors.  OK retirement funds of average workers are in these big banks, and we wouldn't want to lose them too, but the objective isn't to tax the corporations and rich out of existence.  Just enough to keep greed and legal ponzi schemes in check.

It seems to me the only way to compensate such messes is to not believe any hype about trickle down, or corporations needing lower taxes, and legislate enough taxation on corporations and income taxes on wealth to protect the majority of the citizens.  It's only fair.  It's not like investment bankers have a choice to suddenly do some other career if their tax rate goes up. What else can pay nearly as much???  Its not like the very rich who don't even need to work will suffer if their tax rate goes up some.  
« Last Edit: December 11, 2010, 07:02:54 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline pozniceguy

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #51 on: December 12, 2010, 01:10:50 AM »
Obama  started out as a well spoken "new guy"  with lots of high idea promises,  most of which were and are "fluff" or in the advertising/ legal world better know as  Puffery.....   anyone that really thought he could wave his magic wand and "change Washington"   was delusional....he is a light weight politician  and now has to deal with political reality....from both his Democrats and the Republicans......  who got what is not the real story here, the real story is  how is business done within a framework of conflicting ideas and solutions to national priorities.....    energy policy, trade agreements,   federal vs states rights, are and should be the top priorities of the Congress and the President.....diversions to  supporters of Ethanol,various Farm subsidies, tobacco lobbies , the NRA and other  specific interests  just pollute the whole discussion of priorities

Nick
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Offline bocker3

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #52 on: December 12, 2010, 11:19:05 AM »
Frankly I have no idea why anyone is surprised that there were "promises" not kept.  Obama is a politician after all.  He didn't get where he got because of a solid record of getting things done, hell, he didn't even get to the W.H. with a long record of winning elections.  He got there because he picks good speech writers, delivers them well and is a master at marketing.  I give him credit for some of the things he has done, mainly making a first-step improvement to our Health Care system.

The problem with Washington is not the Dems, not the Repubs.  It is quite simple, there are damned few in Washington who actually want to solve any problems beyond how do they win the next election.

Mike
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Offline pozniceguy

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #53 on: December 12, 2010, 03:27:02 PM »
Most of the :professional"  Politicians will freely admit that their purpose in  Washington is Primarily  to "represent"  their  Constituents    a  good translation of that is to "bring home the bacon"   any way they can....   over the years I have seen consistent  speeches  extolling how much  each of the candidates have "done for you"  in their reelection bids   when approaching the locals   and the locals freely put their wants to the candidates .....

I have seen and participated in many political "polls"   ( thinly disguised pleas for money)   that seem to show the  "hot topics are not the major issues"   but the "HOT" topics get a lot more headlines than the  plea for rebuilding bridges or new roads or a new VA hospital  ..... which usually end up as  some sort of "earmark"      ... and a great topic for the next meeting with the locals....   

the latest  hub bub about extending the "tax cuts"  was/is a great way to really tack on all the BS stuff that they couldn't get funded otherwise....the most egregious in my mind is the triple funding for  ethanol.....  a huge expenditure that benefits very few people and costs so much to everyone else..    also the other  "farm "subsidies  disguised as for "family farms"  but in reality goes overwhelmingly to major corporations

such is Politics in Reality terms   you have to give to get....

Nick
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Offline MitchMiller

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #54 on: December 16, 2010, 02:03:40 AM »
Germany's government follows the Japanese model of protecting and nurturing start up industries.  They also have an exceptional educational system and a well-regarded industrial apprentice program.  It doesn't hurt that they also have a more homogenius population (albeit likely to be more loyal to local brands, although probably not as loyal as the Japanese).

The US seems intent on free trade, even when it is to our disadvantage.  Those industries where we do provide significant protection and/or subsidies, are quite successful global competitors;  namely the pharmaceutical and agricultural industries.

Unfortunately, we can't even seem to have the wherewithall to properly fund and nuture the green energy industries.  China and Germany have already surpassed us in solar panel manufacturing. 

US corporations have no allegiance and the US government fails to provide any incentives to do so.  This is very unlike Germany, where companies are incentivised to keep jobs at home. Germany has not permitted the disembowlment of its manufacturing sector.  The US did and nobody even blinked so long as we were getting cheaper goods.  Unfortunately, we can't easily turn this barge around.

So what we're left with is naked global capitalism.  Unless we begin to radically change our economy, we can't compete based on costs... much from our high wage rates.   China is already mounting a huge push to move up the value added ladder.  Even small town hospitals have fired all their American radiologist night staff and moved it to India ... to save on labor costs.  First manufacturing, now the service industry.  Best advice... become an auto mechanic or a plumber.!

Online mecch

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #55 on: December 16, 2010, 08:49:22 AM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appellation_d'origine_contrôlée

Yes, get employed on any product or service that has the equivalent prestige of AOC - as long as this prestige holds up.  For example, hopefully for the French, luxury goods will only merit their value if they continue to be manufactured in France.  A Rolex in Switzerland. Etc.  But so many consumer products - nobody in the US really cares, or if they do care, they don't have a choice anyway, anymore.

Here in Switzerland there is still a value on a Swiss product and the enough people are willing to pay, but its gradually wearing down.  Ikea put alot of middle class homefurnishings out of business, for example, and the big players had to pay copycat - cut prices and manufacture in China.  Swiss and German big appliances still sell well, but how long will that last.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline David_CA

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #56 on: December 16, 2010, 09:30:55 AM »
I'd be loyal to American / US brands if it were really possible.  A Chevy from Canada or Mexico is not a US product, but is a Toyota built in Kentucky or California?  Buying a Canadian Chevy will help GM, but it won't directly benefit US auto workers.  That Kentucky-built Toyota was built by US workers but benefits a non-US company.  The last CRT-television I bought was an RCA, a US brand and was assembled in Mexico in '93.  RCA's a few years later were Asian-built and had cold solder issues (poor quality control).  What can we buy that's built / assembled in the US now?  I'd feel better about buying a TV from Mexico than I do with one from China, but that's not an option now.  

Besides some clothing, furniture, foods, and a few other items (not including pharmaceuticals), what items' production haven't been sent to Asia?  The other side of that is, besides being built here, the quality has to be comparable.  'Made in Japan' has long been associated with high quality, but 'Made in China' hasn't.  'Made in USA' used to be fairly common and associated with quality, but both points have pretty much slipped (except for a few specialized items).

We, the US, must have some sort of incentives to keep jobs in the US (to benefit us as a whole), not farm jobs out to cheaper labor so that a select few stockholders and executives can increase their personal incomes.  That's partially what got us into this mess to begin with.  'Trickle down' my ass... more like 'trickle away.'

(edited for typos)
« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 10:36:28 AM by David_NC »
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Offline denb45

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #57 on: December 16, 2010, 10:20:23 AM »
The politicians sold us all out, and they continue to do this with free-trade and outsourced jobs, they did this for their own benefit as they do everything else, the average politician has NO idea what it's like to live on less than 10K a yr. and we all know that NONE of them would even be able to live like this, or know how to do this
but yet, we elect them thinking they are for us, actually they are only out for themselves and whatever their own agenda is at the time, the whole system is one big scam after another, but yet we keep voting for these ass-holes, GOP, DEMS it really matters NOT, but most people are too busy just trying to survive and best they can, and are totally oblivious to what's really going on here  ???
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Online mecch

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #58 on: December 16, 2010, 01:24:40 PM »
A couple of years ago I was read the riiot act here cause I poo-pooed WalMart. I really do get that if one has a limited budget, you gotta buy what you can afford. But WalMart workers get the shaft for insurance and salaries.  And WalMart played hard ball with so many manufacturers over the years - they wouldn't stock the product if the price wasn't cut - cause "that's what the Walmart consumer wants".   I've read so many articles over the years of sad sad stories of one after another American manufacturer having to open Chinese production because Walmart insisted on cheap prices. Walmart is so pervasive, many consumers don't even have the choice to pay more for something American.
I remember the story of Etch-a-sketch.  Socks.  Pickles.  

Its encouraging that the whole foods and "organic" foods market is growing and big volume supermarkets are trying to supply more local.  China grows organic food too, so we all have to be careful to try just a little bit when possible to buy local products when we can afford it.  I know tonight in the supermarket in switzerland, there was fresh asparagus from Peru. When i go to the budget supermarket, they have all sorts of canned and jarred goods from China now.  10 years ago, a lot of that budget stuff in the Swiss stores was from Eastern Europe - jams and sauces and honey, etc.  Now they have 2 kilo bags of frozen mixed vegetables, but from China.

Switzerland is opening the market to European products that have the same name as Swiss products but not the same quality. For example, lots of families buy this fruit syrup that you mix with water to make a beverage, kids love it.  But the Swiss one is triple the percentage of fruit as the European, and now by law both can be sold under the same name and even Swiss supermarkets can manufacture their store brand syrup in Europe at a lower quality.  But the price isn't proportionally lower.  In other words, the consumer is saving pennies and getting ripped off much more on quality.  

At least for the moment, I'm happy at least there is a choice of products in Switzerland, Germany, France, I'm not forced to buy Chinese, if I can afford not to.

Two years ago I went to a Coach outlet in Vermont and was saddened to note that a lot of the labels said "made in China."  I guess the quality is still good but whats the point of Coach being expensive if its produced at Chinese labour prices with Chinese material?  Same thing at the Brooks Brothers store.  What the fuck? Only suckers could pay for this bait and switch.  I made a point to search high and low in the US for a pair of American made Wranglers. ::)   I'll occasionally buy the name brand but chinese made goods but only on SUPER sale because that's the only price that seems to make sense.

Irony of ironies, first Levi's opened an outlet here, now Wrangler and Lee and they are passing off Wrangler's (and all chinese made) as an American luxury product.  

The last time I was in Cairo, there were some egyptian owned boutiques selling high quality clothes made with Egyptian cotton.  Which is what so much of the luxury stuff used to be made of.  I thought it was just great. It was pretty expensive, but cheaper than retail of stuff like LaCoste and Polo.  I got a couple of polos that have aged beautifully - in fact like a Brooks Brothers shirt used to in the 70s!

A Swiss quality old brand white t-shirt can be 100 bucks - what the fuck?  Some of the department stores have "fair trade" developing world products that are cheaper and pretty good, though, thank god.

I can't afford to buy retail Swiss linens which are still pretty good so I buy vintage stuff that is just wonderful. It is possible to make a fine product in China. I hear they are very serious about producing foie gras and champagne (which they won't be able to call champagne, but if its quality stuff, it'll sell!).  Mac is all Chinese now, isn't it?

Oh, what does this have to do with Obama. I guess we lost the thread.  It was Clinton who set all this up and I suppose it wasn't an evil decision, but the fruits of the switch are kinda of rotten.  Any President, Republican or Democrat, and Congress, has to pull up their shirt sleeves and find some creative solutions for this mess.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 01:45:24 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Online mecch

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #59 on: December 16, 2010, 01:59:43 PM »
Oh, and yesterday I broke a big vintage pyrex covered casserole. So I stopped at the thrift shop, shifted a bit in the bins, and found two pristine vintage replacements.
I think Pyrex still produces some in the USA.  Only the French and the Americans made this stuff for so long, and a bit the English.  Duralex still manufactures in France, too. I collect Duralex bowls and dinnerware.  The manager of the thrift store said he routinely destroys bins of this stuff because nobody buys it.  Half of it is perfect, no scratches, and some is easily 50 years old now.  If its cloudy or iridized, chances are it was destroyed by dishwashers.  Progress!
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline David_CA

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #60 on: December 16, 2010, 02:06:19 PM »

Oh, what does this have to do with Obama. I guess we lost the thread.  It was Clinton who set all this up and I suppose it wasn't an evil decision, but the fruits of the switch are kinda of rotten. Any President, Republican or Democrat, and Congress, has to pull up their shirt sleeves and find some creative solutions for this mess.

I know NAFTA was a Clinton-era deal, but I don't think it's really related to China.  That seems to be 'market-driven' i.e. companies find an even cheaper workforce than Mexico - China.  We all know corporations have got to take care of a few (stockholders and executives) at the expense of many (actual workers). 
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Offline AlanBama

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #61 on: December 16, 2010, 02:07:48 PM »
I think Obama is doing the best he can, in a BAD situation (Repub. dissention).  I was glad to see him at the press conference call them out on the tax cuts for the wealthy being their "mantra, or holy grail".  If we had a little more PLAIN speaking, and calling people out, and a little more Democratic idealism "pushed" as an agenda....I think we'd all be better off.   Of course, I live in a red state; the word "Liberal" is literally considered a derogatory term, and used freely here in negative political ads, etc.

I just wish Prez O would channel Harry S Truman a little bit more.....

 ;)
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Offline edfu

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #62 on: December 16, 2010, 07:06:11 PM »
No, I'm sorry, but Obama is NOT doing the best he can.  In fact, as with so many other promises he made during his campaign for President, he's either doing nothing or the opposite.

One of the policies he campaigned on was to revise the devastating U.S. trade agreements.  So what does he do?  As we type this, right now, he's pushing Congress to approve KORUS, which is George Bush's (!) initiated NAFTA-like trade agreement with South Korea.  It is estimated that this will result in the loss of over 159,000 U.S. jobs over five years.   Gee, I wonder who supports this:

 http://leftwingnutjob.blogspot.com/2010/12/obamas-nafta-style-korea-dealwhats-in.html
« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 07:12:22 PM by edfu »
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Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #63 on: December 21, 2010, 05:17:25 PM »
Let's see

- rescued the banking industry (taxpayers scheduled to be fully repaid and maybe make a profit))
- rescued the US auto industry (ultimate cost may be nothing)
- stopped the great depression part II (thank you George W. Hoover II)
- the largest amount of medical research funding grants ever
- universal health coverage (on about the same delayed timetable as the start up of Social Security)
- reform of credit card and debit card rules
- overturn unfair Supreme Court decision on women's ability to sue for pay discrimination that they don't find out about right away
...

oh, and repeal of don't ask, don't tell, another extension of unemployment benefits, reductions in nuclear arms ...
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Offline BT65

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #64 on: December 21, 2010, 06:17:43 PM »
I have to agree with Alan.  I believe Obama is truly doing the best he can, and more, with all the accomplishments Assurbanipal listed above.  In fact, if you look at everything he's done, he's really done a lot.  All politicians have their bad moments, that's just how it is.  But the alternative (McCain) would never have done as much.  We gotta give the man his due.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

BobF

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #65 on: December 21, 2010, 11:53:44 PM »
I agree with Assurbanipal.   Obama has had the Most Successful presidency since Franklin Roosevelt.   Surely there's nobody who thinks it's possible to achieve 100% success given the party-of-no (Republicans) having the ability to filibuster or otherwise stop legislation at will?   Do you think McCain (or god forbid, Palin) would have been better?  Does anyone recognize the historic successes Obama has led DESPITE inheriting the worst economic conditions since the depression and two wars?   Wake up people and recognize it's impossible for any President to be successful on every issue - they aren't monarchs with limitless powers. 

Offline David_CA

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #66 on: December 22, 2010, 08:34:42 AM »
Let's see

- rescued the banking industry (taxpayers scheduled to be fully repaid and maybe make a profit))
- rescued the US auto industry (ultimate cost may be nothing)
- stopped the great depression part II (thank you George W. Hoover II)
- the largest amount of medical research funding grants ever
- universal health coverage (on about the same delayed timetable as the start up of Social Security)
- reform of credit card and debit card rules
- overturn unfair Supreme Court decision on women's ability to sue for pay discrimination that they don't find out about right away
...

oh, and repeal of don't ask, don't tell, another extension of unemployment benefits, reductions in nuclear arms ...

Well said.  He's a president, not a magician; things won't change at the snap of his fingers.  Just because a policy change / repeal, like that of DADT, doesn't have immediate changes should come as no surprise.  If they did, he'd then be accused of rushing things without having proper policies, procedures, etc in place.  This would not be good, as everything takes time to implement. 
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  Atripla started 12-01-2006
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05-19-08 CD4 695 @33.1% VL < 48 undetectable!
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Offline woodshere

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #67 on: December 22, 2010, 10:55:01 AM »
According to what I heard on the news last night, Obama has accomplished 80% of his campaign promises.  Of course accomplished is a relative term.  I was disappointed on the tax bill, but since that passed a great deal has been passed in this lame duck session.
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Offline RAB

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #68 on: December 22, 2010, 11:59:11 AM »
Let's see

- rescued the banking industry (taxpayers scheduled to be fully repaid and maybe make a profit))
- rescued the US auto industry (ultimate cost may be nothing)
- stopped the great depression part II (thank you George W. Hoover II)
- the largest amount of medical research funding grants ever
- universal health coverage (on about the same delayed timetable as the start up of Social Security)
- reform of credit card and debit card rules
- overturn unfair Supreme Court decision on women's ability to sue for pay discrimination that they don't find out about right away
...

oh, and repeal of don't ask, don't tell, another extension of unemployment benefits, reductions in nuclear arms ...

I would also add to your list the elimination of the travel ban on visitors who are HIV +

All in all I think Obama and this congress  have accomplished a great deal.  The next two years will be entirely different obviously, but that's politics.

One last thought, I'm actually proud to call myself an American again, something I wasn't feeling with Bush.

RAB   ;D

Offline David_CA

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #69 on: December 22, 2010, 12:53:27 PM »
I would also add to your list the elimination of the travel ban on visitors who are HIV +

All in all I think Obama and this congress  have accomplished a great deal.  The next two years will be entirely different obviously, but that's politics.

One last thought, I'm actually proud to call myself an American again, something I wasn't feeling with Bush.

RAB   ;D
Same here, and I wonder how our 'national image' has changed... I assume it has based on comments non-US people made after O won the election. 
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Offline Ann

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #70 on: December 22, 2010, 01:17:06 PM »
Same here, and I wonder how our 'national image' has changed... I assume it has based on comments non-US people made after O won the election. 

It's changed a bit where I live, but a lot of the bad feelings persist.

I'm not quite as embarrassed to admit to being American as I used to be during the Bush years, but I don't think I'll ever be as proud as I was when I was a naive kid before I found out how many atrocities the US government has been responsible for through the centuries - such as the Trail of Tears just to name one.
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Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #71 on: December 22, 2010, 01:30:41 PM »
As long as the US continues to police the world and think they have some sort of mandate to interfere in foreign affairs as if they were breaking up a fight between children (very condescending) there will be a lot of ill will toward America.

Offline Joe K

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #72 on: December 22, 2010, 08:40:12 PM »
I am not disappointed in President Obama, because for the first time in eight years, I know that my president does not hate me, nor desire to enshrine discrimination against me, for being gay, in the Constitution.  From my view in Montreal, I am starting to see the America that really matters, reemerging.  As I watch the legislation that has passed, I cannot miss the fact that so much of it is to help the middle class.  You can complain about tax breaks for the rich, but without agreeing to them, millions would lose their unemployment insurance and there would be no tax breaks for ANYONE.  The fact that he and the Democrats have accomplished so much, in less than two years, is very impressive.

I believe that more Americans need to start paying attention to what is really happening in Washington and that President Obama needs to keep highlighting exactly who is blocking legislation and why.  I cannot begin to tell you, how the Republicans looked, by denying the 9/11 health care funding, from the outside.  Our friends are amazed at the heartlessness of Republicans and how Americans could vote them back into a majority.  A lot of people look at America and wonder why we continue to vote in legislators, who no longer care about the will, nor the reality of the average American.  I often wonder the same thing.
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Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #73 on: December 22, 2010, 08:59:09 PM »



    I think Obama is the man!

   


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Offline Jeff G

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #74 on: December 22, 2010, 09:01:02 PM »
Our friends are amazed at the heartlessness of Republicans and how Americans could vote them back into a majority.  A lot of people look at America and wonder why we continue to vote in legislators, who no longer care about the will, nor the reality of the average American.  I often wonder the same thing.

Here in the south where I live the middle and lower income people overwhelmingly vote Republican , they vote for the very party every time that never does a damn thing that's in there best intrest .

Is it something akin to Stockholm syndrome that makes these people identify with Republicans ? I really would like to see a comprehensive study done as to why people support candates that do nothing to help them .      

Offline Joe K

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #75 on: December 22, 2010, 09:21:07 PM »
Here in the south where I live the middle and lower income people overwhelmingly vote Republican , they vote for the very party every time that never does a damn thing that's in there best intrest .

Is it something akin to Stockholm syndrome that makes these people identify with Republicans ? I really would like to see a comprehensive study done as to why people support candates that do nothing to help them .      

I believe that part of it, is that most people really do not care about many things, nor will they actually do some research when picking candidates to support.  I get my news through world sources now and without being fed the non-stop pablum of Faux News, you really know what is happening and why.  I remain perplexed how people can actively support Republicans, when under their rule, the middle class has steadily lost ground for three decades.  Saddest, is that millions vote for their own misery but there is no law that says you have to think.
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Offline denb45

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #76 on: December 22, 2010, 10:20:13 PM »


    I think Obama is the man!


 Well of course he is, but, I'm a little perplexed with Mrs. Obama she looka lika a man, I know a few drag queens that look way better than her......just kidding here and having some fun  ;D
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 10:22:29 PM by denb45 »
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Offline aztecan

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #77 on: December 23, 2010, 12:24:10 AM »
You know, there are things I wish the president had done differently.

But, I could say that about any president, some more than others.

Bill Clinton, whom I like, came up with "Don't ask, don't tell," which I have always hated. But, it was a stepping stone to allow President Obama to finally do away with anti-gay discrimination in the military. Before DADT, gays and lesbians simply were not alllowed in the military and were courts martialed and often imprisoned if they were found out.

Would I like to have seen more done by President Obama? Well, maybe, but I also have to be realistic. He was handed a country bitterly divided and in the throes of an economic crisis that was devastating in its scope.

On top of that, he was handed two wars which were growing increasingly more unpopular, and a jobless rate that was exacerbated by "free market" corporations sending jobs overseas where labor is cheap, then expecting us top buy their knockoffs at full price so they can afford another summer home or a few more million dollar bonuses.

The republicans had basically screwed us until we bled and then left us on the side of the road to die. Mr. Obama has had a hard road to travel to bring us to where we are.

I also agree with others who said they simply don't understand those who are marginalized or economically downtrodden supporting republicans, who at best are soulless, and at worst don't care about anything or anyone but themselves - unless they can make money by paying attention to them.

OOPS, my socialist roots are showing.

HUGS,

Mark
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 12:32:42 AM by aztecan »
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Offline Ann

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #78 on: December 23, 2010, 12:58:10 AM »
I cannot begin to tell you, how the Republicans looked, by denying the 9/11 health care funding, from the outside.  Our friends are amazed at the heartlessness of Republicans and how Americans could vote them back into a majority.  A lot of people look at America and wonder why we continue to vote in legislators, who no longer care about the will, nor the reality of the average American.  I often wonder the same thing.

Joe, I've been dealing with that for the past 20 years. It's just mind-boggling. And the more funding that is taken away from education, the more this is going to happen. Who (in my living memory) was the person whose campaign promise was to cut the budget and cut it from education? Regan. That man who refused to utter the word AIDS.  Who votes (in the main) for the republicans? People who have a poor education. There is no other explanation. It's a viscous cycle. Republicans in office = poor education. Poor education = republicans in office.
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Offline Joe K

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #79 on: December 23, 2010, 11:19:33 AM »
I am posting an editorial from today's New York Times, regarding President Obama and the lame-duck Congress.

New York Times
Lame Ducks Triumphant
By GAIL COLLINS

Wow, we’re getting a new nuclear arms control treaty for Christmas. I know some of you were hoping for iPads. But still, big news.

Good work, White House! Thank heavens we got rid of our former president, Barack Obama, who couldn’t even get the trade agreement he went all the way to South Korea to sign. Our current president, Barack Obama, would never let that happen, and, in fact, came up with a really excellent trade agreement with the South Koreans just the other day.

“Administration officials have bent over backwards to try to solve every problem that’s come up,” said Senator Bob Corker of Tennessee, one of the Republicans who reached across the aisle to get the New Start treaty with Russia ratified.

The treaty, which needed a two-thirds vote, was actually approved 71 to 26. The Democrats did not have to go scrambling madly around looking for one last vote. And even the opponents were winners since they got to spend more than a week beating up on the Russians, revisiting the golden days when life was simple and wars were cold.

“They cheat. They are serial cheaters,” said Senator James Risch of Idaho, the author of my favorite unsuccessful amendment to the treaty. It would have made the entire groundbreaking nuclear-reduction program contingent on the return of four American Humvees that the Russians picked up during their conflict with Georgia. Risch hauled out blowups of one of the enslaved military vehicles, shouting: “You can watch your property right here being towed away by the Russians! Back to Moscow!” If the former Red Menace wants to “hold hands and sing ‘Kumbaya,’ ” he added, “Well, that is fine. But give us back our stolen military equipment.”

When was it that the singing of “Kumbaya” became a shorthand for weenieness? “Kumbaya” is an excellent campfire song, especially for groups that border on tone-deafness and don’t know the words to anything. I remember singing it in Girl Scout camp with friends who emerged unscathed and became conservative Republicans. Some may be writing letters protesting the New Start treaty at this very moment. Please, give “Kumbaya” a break.

But I digress. Nothing, not even Humvees in chains, was going to stop the progress of what has recently become known as the “hard-charging lame-duck Congress.” It is a perfect image, with its suggestion of a flock racing along in the clumsiest manner possible but still stumbling over the finish line.

“When it’s all going to be said and done, Harry Reid has eaten our lunch,” said Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, who called the hard-charging lame duck “a capitulation in two weeks of dramatic proportions.” This is the rapidly evolving new hyperpartisan Lindsey Graham, who was so ticked off at the fact that the Senate was devoting a mere eight days to the treaty that he told the antitreaty obstructionist Jon Kyl of Arizona: “I want to apologize to you for the way you’ve been treated by your colleagues.”

His Start-supporting fellow Republicans appeared quietly unrepentant. Perhaps they were afraid that if they said anything in response, Graham would continue his evolution into awfulness right there on the Senate floor and start gnawing on the ankles of elderly legislators.

Good work, Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman John Kerry. We appreciate the way you’ve evolved from one of the world’s worst presidential candidates into an extremely useful senator. Unlike some unsuccessful presidential candidates we could name.

Good work, Senator Richard Lugar of Indiana, the lone Republican who stuck with the treaty through thick and thin and never mutated into a scary new entity.

Good work, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. Unlike your hapless predecessor, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, you’ve had legislation shooting off to the White House like angry birds in that video game. Unemployment compensation! Gay rights! Food safety! Judicial appointments! Arms control! Health care for 9/11 responders!

But let’s admit it. Nothing would have gotten done if Obama hadn’t swallowed that loathsome compromise on tax cuts for the wealthy.

If he’d taken the high road, Congress would be in a holiday war. The long-term unemployed would be staggering into the new year without benefits. The rest of the world would look upon the United States as a country so dysfunctional that it can’t even ratify a treaty to help keep nuclear weapons out of the hands of terrorists. The people who worked at ground zero would still be uncertain about their future, and our gay and lesbian soldiers would still be living in fear.

It’s depressing to think that there was no way to win that would not have involved giving away billions of dollars to people who don’t need it. But it’s kind of cheery to think we have a president who actually does know what he’s doing.
Life is what happens, when you are busy making other plans.

Though you may be only one person in the entire world, to one person, you may be the entire world.

I wish to become half the man, that my dog thinks I am.

Remember me with simple acts of kindness and I will live forever.

Offline red_Dragon888

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #80 on: December 23, 2010, 09:37:38 PM »
Funny, a politician is elected, gets into office and plays politics.  I can"t believe it.   ;D
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #81 on: December 23, 2010, 10:47:23 PM »
It's changed a bit where I live, but a lot of the bad feelings persist.

I'm not quite as embarrassed to admit to being American as I used to be during the Bush years, but I don't think I'll ever be as proud as I was when I was a naive kid before I found out how many atrocities the US government has been responsible for through the centuries - such as the Trail of Tears just to name one.

Yeah, I greatly enjoyed Winston Churchill's secret gassing of the Kurds in 1920.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

 


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