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Author Topic: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.  (Read 8265 times)

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Offline mecch

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Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« on: December 07, 2010, 03:27:16 PM »
Anyone want to join me?  :(

Plutot  ???   ???   ???

Why did he make such a bad case against the criminals in the big banks who created such a mess?  
Why couldn't he get unemployment benefits without the tax giveaway, (unpaid for by the way)?
Why can't he just fight a little bit and make the Republicans squirm and reveal their hypocrisy?
Why does he seem like just a bagman for the rich?

And on that note, why did the Irish dump the debt on the little guy, rather than letting those international banks eat their bad loans.

Why is the world being run by and for the super rich?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 03:30:28 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2010, 03:30:19 PM »
Why is the world being run by and for the super rich?

I dunno, but I suspect the Swiss banking system has something to do with it.

MtD

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2010, 03:46:37 PM »

Why is the world being run by and for the super rich?

When hasn't it been?
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline mecch

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2010, 04:16:24 PM »
From Roosevelt up until Reagan the rich were taxed appropriately.  That's why income inequality was kept in check.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline hope_for_a_cure

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2010, 05:30:00 PM »
Why is the world being run by and for the super rich?

Ever heard of 'The New World Order'? 

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2010, 05:33:20 PM »

Offline hope_for_a_cure

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2010, 05:41:23 PM »
@ Matty - I wish!  lol

Online Jeff G

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2010, 05:46:35 PM »
If I were to be disappointed in anyone it would be the middle and low income people who vote Republican time and time again , this is were the problem is in my opinion .

Offline woodshere

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2010, 07:04:43 PM »
EXTREMELY!!!!  Framed properly and started in the fall rather than 3 weeks before the end of the current congress extending the Bush tax cuts for those making over 1 millions could have been a huge victory.  Obama needs to grow a set or at least borrow Hillary's!
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline madbrain

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2010, 07:12:42 PM »
Add me to the list. I reluctantly voted for him in the first place. I wasn't hoping for all that much, but I'm still greatly disappointed. He makes great speeches, but he doesn't actually stand for anything, whether it's the middle class, gay rights, ending wars, or actually much else.

Offline denb45

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2010, 07:18:18 PM »
I just wish Obama would ask his wife for his balls back, she has taken them hostage, and she needs to give them back to him, maybe she should have been the President, and I Voted for Mrs. Clinton go figure  ::)
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline fearless

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2010, 10:02:01 PM »
Balls ain't much use if you don't have the numbers
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2010, 10:11:09 PM »
Balls ain't much use if you don't have the numbers

Quote For Truth.

MtD

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2010, 12:39:30 AM »
I'm not sure what to think.  He has actually gotten a lot done while being handed 2 wars and an economy on the verge of another Great Depression.  However, he seems to be too willing to compromise too soon.  He made it known to repubs that he would fold on the public option and now the tax cuts.  Congressman Weiner said he goes from zero to fold.  I don't know why he wouldn't sign an executive order, using his powers as Commander-in-Chief and stop-loss powers, to stop all discharges of gay military personnel.  I'm not sure why he didn't push the DOJ to NOT appeal the court decision throwing out DADT.  I realize he doesn't have total control on what the DOJ does.  This is what happened to Clinton.  Reno gave the authority for a special prosecutor to be appointed and this could occur while Clinton was still in office.

Watching the news conference today, Obama says 30 million people now have, or will have, health insurance.  He asked whether fighting and getting nothing would have been better.  He said repubs were hostage takers and not getting something done now would have meant taxes going up for the middle-class.  I am upset he didn't go to the American public about how repubs were acting like children and were blocking extensions for unemployment, funds for food for poor kids, and funds for 9/11 workers who are now sick--so that the very rich could get more tax cuts.  He needs to learn how to be a better politician and not just someone who governs. 

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2010, 12:55:38 AM »
One more thing--- He should have campaigned on what the tax cuts really mean.  Many studies have shown that a large percentage of Americans believe their taxes have gone up--when they've gotten tax cuts.  40% of the stimulus was tax cuts. 

In 1955, the top tax rate was 81%.  The top rate now is about 36% and would have reset to 39%--where it was under Clinton when we had that great economy.  Repubs want it lowered to 28%.  1955 is that era that republicans look back on so fondly...when things were so great.  Besides the awful civil rights inequalities, 1955 was a good time.  We built an interstate system and so much infrastructure.  We had the best public schools.  Now, we have bridges that collapse.  We had never cut taxes during war time until Bush.  After 10 years, it is obvious they didn't work.  They are now extended for 2 more years--just in time for the next election.  If the economy does recover, repubs will say it was the tax cuts.  These tax cuts are not paid for and will add billions or trillions to the debt.  These tax cuts are the new wedge issue and I don't understand why people who make 50k a year are concerned that the mega-rich would have to pay more.  I'll never understand why people here in KY keep voting for Mitch.  I don't understand how people think we can afford good roads, a military, and everything else, if we don't pay for it.  These are the same people who complain about the debt and owing China so much money, but want unpaid tax cuts for the rich.   

Offline Cliff

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I wanna live in la la land
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2010, 02:06:35 AM »
I wish I lived in a land of no compromises, where the rich had no influence and you could let all banks fail without an ounce of repercussion!  

Wake up folks.  Life ain't that easy, especially when those that complain (present company, probably, excluded) DON'T VOTE!

Cliff
Who is very surprised a highly educated person living in Switzerland doesn't understand the importance of a sound and fully capitalised banking system to the wider economy.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2010, 02:18:19 AM »
I am bitterly disappointed at my fellow citizens who thought that recovering from the last eight years would take eight months. We are a grop for whom instant gratification just isn't fast enough.

I wish Obama would make short term choices that served us well. But I think his long term choices are going to serve us best in the next decade and beyond. Any real leader has to think in these terms. I am truly dismayed that the House and Senate seem more interested in re-election and pandering than realistically, actually getting things done.

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Welcome Thread

Offline edfu

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2010, 03:16:27 AM »
Obama doesn't know the huge difference between compromising during negotiations and compromising BEFORE negotiations even begin.  He removed the public option from health care before it was even debated; he removed legal importation of cheaper drugs from FDA-inspected facilities overseas in a backroom deal with Big Pharma before the bill was even written.  Etc.  Why have we seen him more agitated yesterday during his news conference than we have in two years, and his anger was directed more at the left wing of the Democratic party and his base than at the Republicans?   It is truly morally corrupt to trade tax benefits for the millionaires, who don't need them, for unemployment benefits.  Today is the first day of the end of Obama's presidency.

Keith Olbermann on Obama's sellout:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW3a704cZlc&feature=player_embedded

Obama must not be nominated for a second term.  He fooled us once during his presidential campaign with his pretty talk and must not be allowed to do so again.   Primary Obama! 

Howard Dean/Alan Grayson 2012! 
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Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2010, 03:20:46 AM »
I have a strong feeling that Obama knew the deal before he made a single concession. I like Obermann a lot, but he seems to think that republicans and those not in power are the only ones who are given "classified" or "private" information.

I think that history will treat Obama well. I do not think the same of his contemporaries in the House and Senate, who know full well what that say in private, and do in public, are very different things.
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Welcome Thread

Offline mecch

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Re: I wanna live in la la land
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2010, 03:37:27 AM »
I wish I lived in a land of no compromises, where the rich had no influence and you could let all banks fail without an ounce of repercussion!  

Wake up folks.  Life ain't that easy, especially when those that complain (present company, probably, excluded) DON'T VOTE!

Cliff
Who is very surprised a highly educated person living in Switzerland doesn't understand the importance of a sound and fully capitalised banking system to the wider economy.

I didn't say to let the banks fail.  But to let them return to record bonuses just one year later, without DEMS using that for political collateral?  Hemming and hawing on Elizabeth Warren.  An impotent SEC and scaredycat Justice Department.

I aqree with others - where are his balls?  I see that Health Care Reform is a very big deal and very very promising and so forgive the lack of the public option.  What galls me is that we don't know if he plays hard and aggressive politics.  What is Polosi supposed to do now? Cave?  
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline madbrain

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2010, 03:40:47 AM »
I am bitterly disappointed at my fellow citizens who thought that recovering from the last eight years would take eight months. We are a grop for whom instant gratification just isn't fast enough.

I don't know who expected that, but the fact of the matter is that Obama made a lot of campaign promises and he has done just the opposite, especially on gay rights, defending DOMA and DADT in court for example. This is not even working in the right direction. Obama's actions have not not matched his words in many ways.

While not all the blame is on him on all issues, when he comes to his achievements like healthcare, there were just too many compromises, like lack of public option, or measures that don't even take effect for years. And none of the compromises were needed given the number of republican votes that this reform got.

Same thing on the tax cuts, no deal is needed there, they just need to expire for everybody, there was no need for compromise there, the democrats still have the senate.

Quote
I wish Obama would make short term choices that served us well. But I think his long term choices are going to serve us best in the next decade and beyond.

That may be true, but many of his choices are so long-term that they may just get repealed or reversed (eg. healthcare reform) before anyone has a chance to see the benefits. I'm not sure that history will treat him so well. Time will tell. But I do hope we get a better president in 2012.

Offline Cliff

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Re: I wanna live in la la land
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2010, 04:56:08 AM »
I didn't say to let the banks fail.  But to let them return to record bonuses just one year later, without DEMS using that for political collateral?  Hemming and hawing on Elizabeth Warren.  An impotent SEC and scaredycat Justice Department.
Fair enough.  But I'm firm believer that big bonuses, in isolation, isn't necessarily a bad thing.  It's big bonuses paid for short-term gains, that is.

Offline BT65

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2010, 05:31:30 AM »
A president has to have a congress who will work with him.  I think Obama has been caught between a rock and a hard place, and has made decisions that may benefit more people in the long run.  I mean, would we really want taxes going up on middle and lower income persons?  Would we want millions losing their soul source of income (unemployment benefits)?   If the Republicans aren't budging, and Obama did say the upper class tax cuts are their "holy grail," then I think Obama made the right choice to take care of more people than had he kept going against the Repubs, and got nothing done at all.

I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline mecch

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2010, 05:46:59 AM »
The end of the tax cuts wouldn't have been the end of the world for employed people.  The government needs money to pay its bills.  Hard to believe that the Republicans would have been willing to face down millions of unemployed suddenly without (meager) benefits by explaining to them sorry, but we didn't get a tax cut for millionaires so me are making you suffer.
It was a game of chicken and Obama chickened first.  Playing it safe.  But the bad guy wins.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline denb45

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2010, 08:28:54 AM »
The end of the tax cuts wouldn't have been the end of the world for employed people.  The government needs money to pay its bills.  Hard to believe that the Republicans would have been willing to face down millions of unemployed suddenly without (meager) benefits by explaining to them sorry, but we didn't get a tax cut for millionaires so me are making you suffer.
It was a game of chicken and Obama chickened first.  Playing it safe.  But the bad guy wins.

You mean the RICH WIN, and always get what they want, been like this for as long as can remember, and I'm 54 yrs. old , the poor get's piece-meal and the RICH get the full course-meal, and it really matters NOT who's in charge of the country at any given time, been that way, and will always be that way ???
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline woodshere

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2010, 09:44:21 AM »
No doubt Obama walked into a pile of shit when he took office.  He has had several major legislative victories and stemmed an economic meltdown.  It is going to take a long time to get out of this mess.  However on the subject of making the Bush tax cuts permanent or extending them, I think it could have been a very winnable fight.  Obama could have used the office as a bully pulpit and pushed for making the tax cut permanent for those making less than 250,000 or could have compromised and gone up to a million.  Had he started campaigning for this last fall rather that waiting till two weeks prior to the end of this Congress I think he could have forced the Republicans to compromise.  I will say that after listening to all the talking heads last night it does seem like there were some good things in the bill.  However they are not sure they will have the votes to pass it in the House.
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2010, 09:57:47 AM »
I'm sure many of you have seen Sen Bernie Sanders recent speech.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5OtB298fHY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2010, 10:22:03 AM »
For an analysis of Obama's campaign promises check out the Obamameter.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2010, 02:31:53 AM »
Keith Olbermann on Obama's sellout:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HW3a704cZlc&feature=player_embedded
 

I watched that Special Comment last night.  Tonight, Keith talked about a new Gallop poll which said 66% of Americans favored extending all Bush tax cuts for 2 years.  However, in a Gallop poll last month, a combined 57% favored limiting or killing cuts for the rich.  A combined 61% told a Bloomberg poll the same thing. 

I will give Obama until the end of his term to evaluate how he has done overall.  I'm still just pissed how he seems to cave so quickly.  Bohner had said, if forced, he would vote for just middle-class tax cuts.  Obama gave away his hand too early.  And, what did we get?  Just 13 months extention for unemployment?  Obama says an extention in 2 years won't happen again, because he and others will build a case against them.  Why wasn't this done now!  Repubs are holding up funds for 9/11 workers.  I will never understand why it is so hard for Dems to point out which party is actually doing things for the common person.  Dems even got new rules for gift cards to protect people from excess fees.  Gift Cards!!  If people don't see who is looking out for their best interests, then they are watching too much Dancing with the Stars and not paying attention.  Dems play too nice.  Obama needs a little of the Bush "I'll do whatever I want" attitude.  Just a little..not too much.

Oh, the other thing that burns me up is how Obama and WH officials always seem willing to lecture/dress-down Dems.  How bout some of that for repubs.  I totally get compromise is necessary, but stand up for something.  Obama may have done the right thing, but he is looking weak.   

Offline mecch

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2010, 05:01:05 AM »
He could have led, by example, the dems in Congress for the past year at least to be more fighting.  What a pity the Dems in Congress are doubting their leader and the leader is doubting his Congress. 
Obama dressing down Dems this week?  Pot kettle, kettle pot.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline woodshere

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2010, 07:24:50 AM »
As I said earlier I am very disappointed with Obama this week, let's not forget that when Clinton lost the House in 94 he started working with the Republicans which really pissed off other Dems.  People were predicting a term and of course we all know how that turned out.  So maybe in the long run this will work out just as well.
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2010, 10:57:25 AM »
From Roosevelt up until Reagan the rich were taxed appropriately.  That's why income inequality was kept in check.

Correction: Up until Clinton. Although he's responsible for repealing Glass-Steagall, creating banks too big too fail.

These are two insightful pieces from, natch, The New York Times:

Give Obama a Break

LINK:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/31/opinion/31kristof.html?_r=1&ref=barack_obama

How Obama Saved Capitalism and Lost the Midterms

LINK:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/11/02/how-obama-saved-capitalism-and-lost-the-midterms/?ref=barack_obama


The Republicans are brilliant at manipulating public opinion and controlling the spin cycle. If only the Democrats could catch up.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 11:00:39 AM by Inchlingblue »

Offline David_CA

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2010, 11:17:39 AM »
I am bitterly disappointed at my fellow citizens who thought that recovering from the last eight years would take eight months. We are a grop for whom instant gratification just isn't fast enough.

I wish Obama would make short term choices that served us well. But I think his long term choices are going to serve us best in the next decade and beyond. Any real leader has to think in these terms. I am truly dismayed that the House and Senate seem more interested in re-election and pandering than realistically, actually getting things done.

I have a strong feeling that Obama knew the deal before he made a single concession. I like Obermann a lot, but he seems to think that republicans and those not in power are the only ones who are given "classified" or "private" information.

I think that history will treat Obama well. I do not think the same of his contemporaries in the House and Senate, who know full well what that say in private, and do in public, are very different things.

These are two of the most sensible posts I've read in this thread.  People, we don't even know what goes on in our own families most of the time, yet we seem to think we have full insight in to what negotiations the president has been involved in?  We say he doesn't stick up for what we want and say he needs to grow a pair?  Politics is a game, and like most games, only the players are privy to the actual strategy; spectators are only aware of the final score.  I observe that this man has done more to help us, the US as a whole, than the last president did in two terms.  It's not like he has the Republicans working with him and fellow Democrats toward a common goal. 
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Offline woodshere

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2010, 02:22:35 PM »
These are two of the most sensible posts I've read in this thread.  People, we don't even know what goes on in our own families most of the time, yet we seem to think we have full insight in to what negotiations the president has been involved in?  We say he doesn't stick up for what we want and say he needs to grow a pair?  Politics is a game, and like most games, only the players are privy to the actual strategy; spectators are only aware of the final score.  I observe that this man has done more to help us, the US as a whole, than the last president did in two terms.  It's not like he has the Republicans working with him and fellow Democrats toward a common goal. 

Of course we don't know what goes on behind closed doors, we can only comment on what we see and by all appearances he turned over and got screwed quicker than many of us on here do.    Yes politics is a game but this game doesn't involve opening a mystery date door or winning the most money or killing the most bad guys, it effects our lives.  I believe he has done many great and good things in a very short time, however I think he got killed in this deal especially from a PR standpoint.  And I know we need more politicians that do what is right for the country and not interest of polls and PR, but if he continues to appear like he is caving and then comes out spanks the bottoms of his base Michelle best be looking for a place in Chicago for that vegetable garden. 

I mean look Republicans got their extensions for all tax payers and yet in those negations that led to that he couldn't even get seniors a meager extra $250 next year.  And if he gave in on the tax breaks in order to get the START treaty back on track, then he is in greater politic trouble than what it appears.
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Offline mecch

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2010, 02:52:02 PM »
Cases he could have made, in front of Congress, and in speeches to the Nation:

1) Trickle down theory has been proven false. The rich getting richer doesn't help the average Joe.

2) If Republicans insist on their tax breaks, they should reconcile that with their concern for the deficit, and propose what they are willing to cut.  They should have been forced  publicly to list their proposed budget balancing choices based on reduced tax revenue.

___________

I do like that the unemployment benefits are stimulus.  So why not go further.  Most economists seem to think the stimulus package was too small. So the unemployment could be increased 50%. Wow, instead of 1200 a month they could get 1800!  And, plow a 100 billion into a public works.  Tell the Republicans they can have their tax breaks for the rich if they can figure out a way to also fund a 100 billion public works stimulus that immediately employs several hundred thousand people. 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2010, 03:05:02 PM »
Finish the job in New Orleans and help it be repopulated with poor folks, oh, and give them jobs.
Find a solution to the decay that is Detroit.
Collect the BP billions and spend them.
A decent modern public transport that compares to other advanced industrial nations?
How about affordable public higher education. Whats with graduating from State with 50 thousand in debt?

These days, its just nonstop crushing on the average Joe.  Nickling and diming people in a country of fantastic wealth and productivity.

OK Obama got the barest minimum of money for the umemployed but does 1200 a month sustain a family. Its the system that created these unliveable wages that needs nonstop attention and high priority.  Otherwise America is doomed.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2010, 03:12:49 PM »
http://costofwar.com/

1.1 trillion so far.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline woodshere

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2010, 03:31:37 PM »
Mecch, perhaps you should become one of his political advisors.  That is the strategy that i think he should have employeed in a BIG DEAL kinda way all fall.  Take that Air Force One plane fly all over the country giving speeches, appearing on tv talk shows, give press conferences, a national address or two just hammer away at those who oppose his policies.

Right now he is in a pickle with this Tax Bill.  The House Dems in a caucus vote (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_tax_cuts) have rejected the bill as is and the Minority Leader cannot or will not guarantee complete Republican support.  Looks to me that Republicans are saying what they want before going behind closed doors and coming out with pretty much what they want.  
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline mecch

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2010, 04:00:33 PM »
I'm sure views such as mine are considered campaign bullshit, pollyanna frosted gumdrop naive.
But there is that figure 1.1 trillion - and what did we get? I guess you can be cynical and say wars are "stimulus" spending as well. Is this not what Eisenhower warned about? Perhaps total war is the cynical solution.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Inchlingblue

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2010, 04:57:07 PM »
In the article from yahoo that woodshere linked Pelosi is quoted as saying, that a House-passed bill, which Republicans blocked in the Senate, did not include "a bonus tax cut to millionaires and billionaires." Considering she and her husband would be one of those paying higher taxes I think it's great she said that.

I wonder how many of those Republicans who insist on the tax cuts for the wealthy are doing so because of how it affects their own personal tax bill?

Offline PeteNYNJ

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #41 on: December 09, 2010, 05:13:00 PM »
I wonder how many of those Republicans who insist on the tax cuts for the wealthy are doing so because of how it affects their own personal tax bill?

Ding Ding Ding....I would bet all of them! 

Offline RAB

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2010, 05:57:57 PM »
These are two of the most sensible posts I've read in this thread.  People, we don't even know what goes on in our own families most of the time, yet we seem to think we have full insight in to what negotiations the president has been involved in?  We say he doesn't stick up for what we want and say he needs to grow a pair?  Politics is a game, and like most games, only the players are privy to the actual strategy; spectators are only aware of the final score.  I observe that this man has done more to help us, the US as a whole, than the last president did in two terms.  It's not like he has the Republicans working with him and fellow Democrats toward a common goal. 

I totally agree D.  The Republicans in the Senate have said NOTHING would be done unless and until they got their tax cuts through (and they've done just exactly that).  So I think President Obama made a calculated decision to compromise.  I wish they had been able to muster the votes to only extend the cuts for the bottom 98%, but the votes just weren't there.  In the House yes, the Senate no.

And as someone who just recently experienced what it's like to have someone unemployed (for a year) I can tell you first hand the unemployment extensions were absolutely necessary.

So while I had wished for something better, it is what it is.

RAB 

Offline woodshere

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2010, 06:26:33 PM »
I totally agree D.  The Republicans in the Senate have said NOTHING would be done unless and until they got their tax cuts through (and they've done just exactly that).  So I think President Obama made a calculated decision to compromise.  I wish they had been able to muster the votes to only extend the cuts for the bottom 98%, but the votes just weren't there.  In the House yes, the Senate no.

And as someone who just recently experienced what it's like to have someone unemployed (for a year) I can tell you first hand the unemployment extensions were absolutely necessary.

So while I had wished for something better, it is what it is.

RAB 

I totally concur and maybe now it is too late for him to grow a pair.  Since his election I have been a huge supporter.  However I think the outcome we have now would have been different for the tax issue and the election had the fight been in the fall instead of now. And looking at the election could it have gone any worse than what happened had he showed some spine at that time.
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline denb45

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2010, 06:42:33 PM »
I totally concur and maybe now it is too late for him to grow a pair.  Since his election I have been a huge supporter.  However I think the outcome we have now would have been different for the tax issue and the election had the fight been in the fall instead of now. And looking at the election could it have gone any worse than what happened had he showed some spine at that time.

I don't think it would have mattered much even in the Fall, everyone knew the way  the mid-terms were going even before it was over, so it wouldn't have made a difference at all.......
« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 06:44:41 PM by denb45 »
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Offline edfu

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2010, 11:56:49 PM »
Tom Buffenbarger, Machinists Union president, predicted two years ago, during the Presidential primary (the union supported Hillary), what a fake and incompetent politician Obama was (and would be).  More of us, including myself, should have listened to him and not been swayed by Obama's flowery (and, we now know, meaningless) oratory.  Buffenbarger, in retrospect, has proved himself to be the greatest political prophet of our time.  The last few minutes here are particularly relevant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKJVHjZVD60


Obama fights back from his Dojo of Democracy!  Learn from the master of political arts.  Mark Fiore's animated cartoon:
 
http://www.markfiore.com/
  
« Last Edit: December 10, 2010, 12:27:00 AM by edfu »
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Offline mecch

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2010, 06:00:36 AM »
Wow great character assessment there!

(Though the crack about latte-drinking trust-fund college kids is a low blow cause that's hardly the typical college kid nor the typical Obama supported.  And I would be reasonably sure Obama went through on financial aid himself.)

I love union based populist politics.  It's mystifying how the Republicans hold 50% support when they have long abandoned the working man in policy.  Clinton's free trade was one of the monkey wrenches that has left the Democratic party so scattershot when it comes to living-wage policy.  Non union less than full time service jobs aren't cutting it for the lower middle class and the poor.  And knowledge economy bread winners put out to pasture before retirement - how's that working out?
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline woodshere

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #47 on: December 10, 2010, 07:24:35 AM »
I don't think it would have mattered much even in the Fall, everyone knew the way  the mid-terms were going even before it was over, so it wouldn't have made a difference at all.......

I guess I am watching way too much MSNBC!
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline MitchMiller

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2010, 01:12:17 AM »
I see the recent Obama tax cave more as a deal in a bid to have a chance in 2012.  Repubs gave Obama more unemployment insurance; he gave them their tax breaks.  Both got a payroll tax break.  Obama gets his back-door stimulus.

The House Dems don't like the estate tax breaks.  That's where it seems the Repubs got a bit more than the Dems.
 
To have a chance in 2012, Obama needs to somehow keep ginning the economy.  I don't think people (except Bernanke and most economists) realize how fragile the recovery is.. and that globalization is speeding along faster than ever.  We just can't compete on wage rates. 
IMHO we need to debase the currency and inflate our way out of debt.  The real value of earnings power falls without lowering salaries drastically.  It brings us closer to par with the rest of the world.  The pain is borne by rich and poor and happens over a few years, not all at once. 
If we take the austerity route the Repubs want us to take, the poor get flattened and the rich get richer.  Pay attention to those riots in Europe.  They aren't taking to the streets for nothing.  Unfortunately, poor Americans are like skittish mice... run and hide, grin and bear it.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Bitterly disappointed with Obama.
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2010, 01:39:00 AM »
globalization is speeding along faster than ever.  We just can't compete on wage rates. 

Disagree -- depends on what is being manufactured.  Germany has a huge export economy and high wages, lots of unions, etc.
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