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Author Topic: Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or ND?  (Read 3454 times)

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Offline natthai

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Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or ND?
« on: November 21, 2010, 09:43:55 PM »
I get the impression that many members here are not as interested in Nutrition as other issues. As I have been researching this disease I have come across hundreds of studies that suggest that HIVers are nutritionally deficient in many micro nutrients. Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or Nutritional Doctor over the course of your treatment? Did you have any blood tests for vitamin, mineral or other nutritional deficiences? I would be interested to hear any experiences you have had.
Infection date: February 14, 2010 (yeah really)
08/03/2010 - CD4 621 (27%) VL 72,250
25/03/2010 - CD4 981 (28%) VL 122,719 <-started anti-oxidants (ABCDE, Se, ALA, NAC)
11/08/2010 - CD4 1,365 (31%) VL 5,451

Offline sharkdiver

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Re: Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or ND?
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2010, 01:12:53 AM »
    Yes I go to a registered HIV Nutritionist who closely works with my doctor. I only take a multivitamin and I have a specialized diet for high triglycerides due to meds.

   I, like many LTS'ers have been through the vitamin and herbal supplements stage. For the most part Been there and done that and it hasn't affected numbers or health. But I am fortunate to be able to afford a healthy diet. Many do not for various reasons, including poverty due to huge economic stress of AIDS/HIV. 


Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or ND?
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2010, 02:30:46 AM »
I get the impression that many members here are not as interested in Nutrition as other issues. As I have been researching this disease I have come across hundreds of studies that suggest that HIVers are nutritionally deficient in many micro nutrients. Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or Nutritional Doctor over the course of your treatment? Did you have any blood tests for vitamin, mineral or other nutritional deficiences? I would be interested to hear any experiences you have had.

Since everybody is somewhat individual in the way their body responds to this disease I'm not sure how you can make a blanket statement that all these studies suggest that HIVers in specific are nutritionally deficient.  Is this definitively as a result of the disease and does it make any difference in lifespan?  I'm beginning to be a little bit suspect of why almost all of your threads are nutrition related.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or ND?
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2010, 03:15:57 AM »
I get the impression that many members here are not as interested in Nutrition as other issues. As I have been researching this disease I have come across hundreds of studies that suggest that HIVers are nutritionally deficient in many micro nutrients. Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or Nutritional Doctor over the course of your treatment? Did you have any blood tests for vitamin, mineral or other nutritional deficiences? I would be interested to hear any experiences you have had.

Many of us have indeed been to nutritionists. And in our blood draws, we get tested for various deficiencies. I assume that those with marked deficiencies get the appropriate dietary and/or supplementary boosts required. Sadly, poverty afflicts many HIV positive people, and determines a lot of nutritional limits.

I daresay that few people who have been positive for any length of time, or who have had major health problems related to their diagnosis ignore the nutritional side of the equation.

Thing is, many if not most nutritional supplements simply do not work. They are not absorbed into the system in a beneficial way. A good (better than average, even) basic diet including leafy vegetables, proteins, and solid carbs is necessary to keep up our health. Fiber can help with the side effects from the meds. A multi-vitamin, despite it's controversial benefit, can do no harm.

As another LTS-er, I can also attest to having been there and done that.  And I note that these cycles tend to come around again and again, with the same things lauded as beneficial, and then refuted, and then, after a dormant period, lauded again.  It really gets tiresome, to tell the truth.

Are our dietary needs different? Depends on who you are, what stage of HIV you are, what impact the meds have on your body, your age, et al. One size here does most assuredly NOT fit all.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

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Offline Ann

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Re: Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or ND?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2010, 07:21:22 AM »
    Been there and done that

been there and done that.

Yep. It gets tiresome for sure. ::)
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline natthai

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Re: Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or ND?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2010, 01:30:51 PM »
I'm beginning to be a little bit suspect of why almost all of your threads are nutrition related.
Hi Hellzaiser

I understand you might feel strongly about Nutrition but is this really a constructive comment in a thread discussion about members experience with professional healthcare services?

Furthermore, your statement isn't correct. Most of my threads are the Living with HIV category including a popular one right now regarding CDC categories which has nothing to do with Nutrition. There is a very constructive discussion in that threat right now and I am learning a lot.

I am not sure what you are stating when you insinuate that you are "beginning to be a little bit suspect of why almost all of your threads are nutrition related" but it doesn't sound very nice and certainly that is not the case. I am new to this disease and I want to learn. When I start a thread I do so because I am interested about someting and with the intention of having a constructive discussion where we can all share our experiences with this disease together.

I am a curious guy and interested to read and learn from others and there are a lot of others here with great experience. I have no hidden agenda and I have taken care to read and respect all of the posting guidelines including those about respect and courtesy. I am grateful for this and for the opportunity to use this service to share experiences and that was the intention of this topic--a constructive topic about other memebers experience with Nutritionists and NDs.

I am interested in Nutrition and how it related to HIV. When I was diagnosed my doctor told me that "Nutrition is Key". She didn't explain exactly what she meant or exactly how it is key or in what way but she did say it and I remember it. So when I discovered AIDSmeds I was very glad to see this board called 'Nutriion and HIV' to have discussions related to these issues.

I would like to give your the benefit of the doubt and not assume that you were intentionally going off topic or hijacking my thread but the title of this thread was "Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or ND?". Specifically I was looking for any other memebers experiences with these professional services, that was the intention and also the direction I was hoping this thread would take. The reason for my question is that one of the services offered at the local HIV clinic is a licensed diteition and nutritionist and I was considering making an appointment in the near future.

So to get back on topic, if anyone else has any experience with nutrition or visiting a Nutritionist over the course of your infection I would really appreciate hearing about your experiences.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 02:50:40 PM by natthai »
Infection date: February 14, 2010 (yeah really)
08/03/2010 - CD4 621 (27%) VL 72,250
25/03/2010 - CD4 981 (28%) VL 122,719 <-started anti-oxidants (ABCDE, Se, ALA, NAC)
11/08/2010 - CD4 1,365 (31%) VL 5,451

Offline natthai

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Re: Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or ND?
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2010, 01:59:13 PM »
Regarding the issue of seeing a nutritionist, to any members who has been, what sort of tests do they do and what services or advice do they offer. Do they do blood tests for deficiencies or just dietary counselling?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 02:52:45 PM by natthai »
Infection date: February 14, 2010 (yeah really)
08/03/2010 - CD4 621 (27%) VL 72,250
25/03/2010 - CD4 981 (28%) VL 122,719 <-started anti-oxidants (ABCDE, Se, ALA, NAC)
11/08/2010 - CD4 1,365 (31%) VL 5,451

Offline natthai

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Re: Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or ND?
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2010, 02:00:56 PM »
Redarding diet, what would you LTS suggest is a good one. I hear a lot of people talking about eating a good deit but exactly what do you eat. Different parts of the world eat different levels of nutrients. For example, in the west we eat a lot of Dairy products (and potatoes) whereas in Aisa they mostly don't eat this at all but instead eat a lot of rice and leafy green vegtables. Are there certain foods you would recommend. Should we eat more of less or something? I did notice someone mention that the daily RDI values are recommendations for healty non-infected individuals. Do we are HIV+ need more of certain nutrients than the normal uninfected population?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 02:27:32 PM by natthai »
Infection date: February 14, 2010 (yeah really)
08/03/2010 - CD4 621 (27%) VL 72,250
25/03/2010 - CD4 981 (28%) VL 122,719 <-started anti-oxidants (ABCDE, Se, ALA, NAC)
11/08/2010 - CD4 1,365 (31%) VL 5,451

Offline leatherman

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Re: Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or ND?
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2010, 03:15:36 PM »
When I was diagnosed my doctor told me that "Nutrition is Key".
actually the key is staying adherent to your meds ;)
the meds, which really do work against the HIV, are the only guaranteed thing that is "anti-HIV". Everything else is subjective.

Your doctor probably only meant what they all seem to mean: "eat right, rest, exercise, don't do drugs, don't drink alcohol.....etc" It's the mantra they all live by because medicine is something they "practice", not something written in stone that applies to everyone equally. Good health can be accomplished through as many various methods as there are people. LOL

Until I quit smoking, my doctors kept telling me that quitting smoking was the key. Then after I stopped (1030 days ago) I found out that on average smokers have 140 more cd4s. Those would sure be nice to have as I can barely keep mine around 300 ROFL :D
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline natthai

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Re: Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or ND?
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2010, 03:36:37 PM »
actually the key is staying adherent to your meds ;)
the meds, which really do work against the HIV, are the only guaranteed thing that is "anti-HIV". Everything else is subjective.
Seeing that this particular doctor in a principle investigator in the START study, I think she meant that aside from treatment when indicated is a given. However at the time of my diagnosis I asked her what I should be doing and that was her reply. Still I don't know exactly what she meant and I have since moved so I cannot contact her any longer. I suspect you are right, she was advising me to take care of myself eat right etc but what is eating right exactly? Any specific recommendations? This is why I was interested when I found out that my local HIV specialist clinic offered nutritional concilling. I wanted to know experience what other memebers had with nutritionists as I have never been to one.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2010, 03:39:12 PM by natthai »
Infection date: February 14, 2010 (yeah really)
08/03/2010 - CD4 621 (27%) VL 72,250
25/03/2010 - CD4 981 (28%) VL 122,719 <-started anti-oxidants (ABCDE, Se, ALA, NAC)
11/08/2010 - CD4 1,365 (31%) VL 5,451

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or ND?
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2010, 04:59:29 PM »
I saw a nutritionist a few years ago, when recovering from PCP. Basically she did not tell me anything I do not already know, but I am constantly amazed at the dearth of knowledge many people have regarding their bodies, this virus, even basic nutrition.

I was told to simply eat a balanced diet, not to stress my body with fad dieting or intentional deficiency. Limit fat, alcohol, salt, refined sugar when possible. Leafy veggies, fresh rather than processed food, proteins, fiber, whole grains.

basically aiming for a diet that we have been told to follow before HIV. That, along with regular monitoring, is all I was told, and all that my research before and after have specified for HIV positive persons without specifically diagnosed deficiencies.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline natthai

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Re: Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or ND?
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2010, 05:09:47 PM »
basically aiming for a diet that we have been told to follow before HIV. That, along with regular monitoring, is all I was told and all that my research before and after have specified for HIV positive persons without specifically diagnosed deficiencies.
Have you since made another appointment with that nutritionist. You mention regular monitoring, do you mean regular CD4 monitoring or regular nutritional monitoring? What tests or monitoring did she recommend and at what frequency? Have you had any nutritional issues since then?
Infection date: February 14, 2010 (yeah really)
08/03/2010 - CD4 621 (27%) VL 72,250
25/03/2010 - CD4 981 (28%) VL 122,719 <-started anti-oxidants (ABCDE, Se, ALA, NAC)
11/08/2010 - CD4 1,365 (31%) VL 5,451

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or ND?
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2010, 05:57:46 PM »
I have never had nutritional issues, unless you count overindulging in sweets, fats, and alcohol on occasion :)

I still have that nutritionist's business card somewhere. She works inside the same clinic as my HIV doctor, so it would not be any trouble at all to see her again. I just have not had the need.

As for regular monitoring, when I get my bloodwork done, I usually get a full panel, including a urine specimen. This, combined with my physical exam, make my doctor aware of most glaring deficiencies. Thankfully, I have not had any to date, other than a little cholesterol issue,  which *could* be related to the meds, but is far more likely related to diet. So I watch the saturated fat intake, get more fiber, and exercise... all to varying degrees.

I do try to eat the right foods, in the right amounts. I cook for myself a lot, and fortunately really enjoy vegetables. I know not all of us have access to healthy food, and many of us can't afford it regularly. Also, men and women have different nutritional needs. I can think of iron right off the bat.

Some HIV drugs can cause anemia, which is also supposed to be monitored on a regular basis. However, as with many supplements, iron can be very dangerous when overdosed. That is why I am very skeptical about nutritional supplements. For every study claiming that anything works, there is usually another claiming it does not.

About a decade ago, there was a HUGE trend among HIV patients who advocated "mega-dosing." Thousands of times the recommended daily dose of vitamin C, B, and A, among others. THAT fad flamed out pretty quickly, because people got really, really sick. Some died.

Interestingly enough, a local pharmacist gave me some compelling advice regarding multivitamin pills. She said that not only were the "store brand" just as effective as the national brand (for a fraction of the cost), but that emerging science was MORE likely to be reflected in the store brands' vitamin recipe, as national brands tend to move much slower to adopt new standards (mainly due to the cost of packaging and inventory) - which is basically the opposite of what I had assumed.

So I save money, and many days (when I think of them) I take a couple of multivitamins. Full disclosure, I choose to spend a bit more and get the gummi vitamins for adults, because, well, they are gummi.

Honestly, the longer I live with HIV, the less I tend too stress about micromanaging my body. Yes, I need to be a little more careful. And yes, I need to take my meds. And since I have had PCP at least twice, I need to wash my hands during flu season, and at the gym, and just in general. But these have been lifestyle changes, not additional supplements.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline natthai

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Re: Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or ND?
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2010, 06:46:08 PM »
Interestingly enough, a local pharmacist gave me some compelling advice regarding multivitamin pills. She said that not only were the "store brand" just as effective as the national brand (for a fraction of the cost), but that emerging science was MORE likely to be reflected in the store brands' vitamin recipe, as national brands tend to move much slower to adopt new standards (mainly due to the cost of packaging and inventory) - which is basically the opposite of what I had assumed.
Wow that is very good advice. I would have thought the same as you, that the national brand would be better. Next time I go to the drug store I am going to take a look at the different amounts in the National brand versus the store brand. Thanks!
Infection date: February 14, 2010 (yeah really)
08/03/2010 - CD4 621 (27%) VL 72,250
25/03/2010 - CD4 981 (28%) VL 122,719 <-started anti-oxidants (ABCDE, Se, ALA, NAC)
11/08/2010 - CD4 1,365 (31%) VL 5,451

Offline sam66

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Re: Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or ND?
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2010, 07:02:34 AM »
     I remember the expression " You are what you eat " drummed in to me at primary school many years ago.

     So, I guess if you live on a diet of cheeseburgers, you should be not surprised if you end up looking like one.
     By the same token I must look like a Tuna Salad.

     To answer your question Natthai I have access to a nutritionist and a pharmacist if I want to see them. I had to talk with the nutritionist before I went on meds, she told me what I knew already, importance of a good balanced diet , weather ones +ve or not

          I do believe they do monitor me to see if I suffer from any vitamin deficiencies, I accept your point good nutrition is a important weapon in your body's arsenal to fight any disease
« Last Edit: November 23, 2010, 07:15:31 AM by sam66 »
december 2007 diagnosed +ve ,

Offline Ann

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Re: Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or ND?
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2010, 07:53:02 AM »

     By the same token I must look like a Tuna Salad.

Sound fishy to me! ;D


          I do believe they do monitor me to see if I suffer from any vitamin deficiencies, I accept your point good nutrition is a important weapon in your body's arsenal to fight any disease

They don't always. I usually have to remind/request this type of monitoring and I usually do it about once a year. Definitely something to ask your doctor about at your next appointment.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline natthai

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Re: Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or ND?
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2010, 01:02:43 PM »
They don't always. I usually have to remind/request this type of monitoring and I usually do it about once a year. Definitely something to ask your doctor about at your next appointment.
Thank you Ann, this is exactly the kind of advice I was looking for. Yearly proactive monitoring for Nutritional Deficiencies seems like a very sensible healthcare step, perhaps even if you are not infected with a chronic virus like we are. I think many of us have these options avaliable to us and if we do then we should use them.
Infection date: February 14, 2010 (yeah really)
08/03/2010 - CD4 621 (27%) VL 72,250
25/03/2010 - CD4 981 (28%) VL 122,719 <-started anti-oxidants (ABCDE, Se, ALA, NAC)
11/08/2010 - CD4 1,365 (31%) VL 5,451

Offline Gio

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Re: Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or ND?
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2010, 01:54:01 PM »
Uhmm my HIV specialist did take i guess a baseline test of my overall health and nutrition.  He did advise that from time to time he will be taking these test to make sure i am not falling below the recommended requirements.  On top of that just what i already knew healthy diet and limits in alcohol, fatty foods, and salt intake... Which was easy to do since i was already in the process so i did not miss much..  All my doctor stressed was MODERATION...

Offline Ann

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Re: Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or ND?
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2010, 01:59:36 PM »
Thank you Ann, this is exactly the kind of advice I was looking for. Yearly proactive monitoring for Nutritional Deficiencies seems like a very sensible healthcare step, perhaps even if you are not infected with a chronic virus like we are. I think many of us have these options avaliable to us and if we do then we should use them.

Sam, I have chronic hiv-related diarrhea and even though it is controlled for the most part (with codeine), it is one hiv-related problem that can definitely cause deficiencies. So far I've been good though.

All my doctor stressed was MODERATION...

All things in moderation, including moderation!!!
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline odyssey

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Re: Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or ND?
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2010, 02:33:12 PM »
To the best of my knowledge, ND does not stand for nutritional doctor, but rather naturopathic doctor, which are two completely different things. Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain this is the case. If so, natthai, you might want to do some research about what a naturopathic doctor can offer and see if that is of interest to you.

odyssey
01/09/09- diagnosed HIV+
01/16/09   CD4-425    22%  VL- 32,415
11/09- started Reyetaz/Norvir/Truvada
03/10- stopped R/N/T
10/18/11   CD4- 328   20%  VL- 84,000
10/25/11   CD4- 386   22%
10/28/11- start Truvada/Reyetaz/Norvir
12/30/11  CD4- 523  29%
03/08/12  CD4- 503  31%  VL 57
07/02/12  CD4- 897  43%
08/31/12  CD4- 745  39%
12/27/12  CD4- 884  40%
03/28/13  CD4- 819  39%
07/19/13  CD4- 739  40%
10/17/13  CD4- 535  36%
01/16/14  CD4- 743  43%

02/14- switched from R/N/T to Tivicay/Epzicom because of CKD 3 suspected from tenofovir.

03/14- switched back to R/N/T due to severe nausea and inability to eat on T/E.
 
04/01/14 CD4- 898  42%   VL-

Offline natthai

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Re: Has anyone been to a Nutritionist or ND?
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2010, 05:39:01 PM »
Sam, I have chronic hiv-related diarrhea and even though it is controlled for the most part (with codeine), it is one hiv-related problem that can definitely cause deficiencies. So far I've been good though.
How long into your infection did the diarrhea show up? Did you get it treated right away and are there other treatments becides codeine for this condition? I thought I read somewhere the long term opioids treatment could be impare immune function but maybe it was for the stronger drugs.

Anyway, I understand this is a common condition suffered by people with HIV. If anybody is interested I found a paper published in 2007 by the NIH that looks at the effects that HIV has on this part of the body including inflamation and tissue damage which can result in chronic diarrhea amoung other problems:

HIV Infection and the gastrointestinal immune system
http://www.nature.com/mi/journal/v1/n1/full/mi20071a.html
Infection date: February 14, 2010 (yeah really)
08/03/2010 - CD4 621 (27%) VL 72,250
25/03/2010 - CD4 981 (28%) VL 122,719 <-started anti-oxidants (ABCDE, Se, ALA, NAC)
11/08/2010 - CD4 1,365 (31%) VL 5,451

 


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