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Author Topic: Any advice.. or thoughs.. or anything...  (Read 1447 times)

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Offline traveltramp

  • Member
  • Posts: 40
Any advice.. or thoughs.. or anything...
« on: November 19, 2010, 12:42:51 PM »
Hello all.

I dont have the ability of seeing a DR. where I live.. but I get my blood work done every 6 months or so....

anyway.. got some confusing results today and wondered if anyone has any thoughts...

April  this year.. CD4 1080 VL 52
Nov 09 CD4 1000 VL 5500 The highest VL I have ever had
I have been pos for 3 years.. 4 months
My VL came back yesterday as undectable and my CD4 is now 464

I dont understand why my VL dropped from 5500 a high a year ago.. to not dectable ..this is good becasue i dont take meds.. but I am now worried about my cd4 because it is never been below 500..

So... is it common for positive people not using medication to have V loads of undectable..
and is there a relationship betwwen the drop in VL over the past year to the drop in my CD4?

7/7 CD4 669
9/7 CD4 1079 V/L 1200
2/8 CD4 803   V/L 3050
4/8 CD4 805   V/L 2200
9/8 CD4 959   V/L 2418
1/9 CD4 909   V/L 550

Offline Jody

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  • Posts: 1,897
Re: Any advice.. or thoughs.. or anything...
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2010, 10:22:39 PM »
Hi travel...You have been having your bloodwork done regularly, so what have you discussed with your doctor?  You say you are not on meds, it is possible that in your case the drop in CD4 is a sign that starting meds may be a prudent decision, again what has your doctor said.  Good luck going forward, starting on an antiretroviral regimen and our very private and individual decision when to do so is always a difficult decision, one that we must be committed to doing daily.

"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world".
 "Try to discover that you are the song that the morning brings."

Grateful Dead

Offline Theyer

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,695
  • Current ambition. Walk the Dog .
Re: Any advice.. or thoughs.. or anything...
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2010, 07:13:39 PM »
If I have read your post correctly you are having your blood work done but for some reason not having any discussions with Doctors about them. It does seem unusual to have what is almost a halving off CD4 but a drop to undetectable in VL.

I would want to know if the same lab has done all your blood work . When ever I have had a big change in numbers my Doc,s have always redone the bloods to rule out lab/body blibs, I think in your position I would want to take these numbers to a HIV Doc and here what they have to say, if you are using differant labs make sure the Doc knows this if you decide to discuss it.

Hope your situation allows for you to start discussing your situation with a Doc even if its by telephone or web.
Take Care
« Last Edit: November 21, 2010, 07:15:53 PM by Theyer »
"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ."  Tony Benn

Offline aztecan

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,505
  • 30 years positive, 58 years a pain in the butt
Re: Any advice.. or thoughs.. or anything...
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2010, 10:42:39 PM »
Hey TravelT,

May I ask why you cannot see a physician and how is it you can get labwork done with no doctor?

It just seems a curious set of circumstances.

Personally, I would recommend you see a doctor when possible to find out what may be going on, because there are just too many variables that could be involved.

Also, as Theyer mentioned, if your labs are done at a different facility, that may have an effect, so could not handling the blood sample in a proper and expedient manner.

Like I said, so many variables and not a whole lot to go on.


"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline Nestor

  • Member
  • Posts: 430
  • What we love, we shall grow to resemble.
Re: Any advice.. or thoughs.. or anything...
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2010, 09:47:41 AM »

Hi Travel,  You have had some impressive numbers!  Your CD4s have been amazingly high except for this last one, and your VL has been extremely low.  Someone else might correct me here, but I've hardly ever even heard of a person not on HAART being undetectable, outside of people who are identified as controllers.  Your one "high" VL was in fact fairly low--in me, for example, it would have been on the low end of the spectrum. 

As for the CD4, I definitely would not panic if I were you; it is normal for numbers to fluctuate, sometimes wildly, and a CD4 count of 464 is really low only in comparison to your usually amazing numbers, not in absolute terms.  Was there anything different about the time you got tested?  Did you have a cold, were under a lot of stress that day or anything of that kind? 

However, if it were possible to get tested more often than once ever six months I would certainly want to do it. 

How is your health in general? 
Summer 2004--became HIV+
Dec. 2005--found out

Date          CD4    %       VL
Jan. '06    725    25      9,097
Nov. '06    671    34     52,202
Apr. '07    553    30      24,270
Sept. '07  685    27       4,849
Jan. '08    825    29       4,749
Mar. '08    751    30     16,026
Aug. '08    653    30       3,108
Oct. '08     819    28     10,046
Jan '09      547    31     13,000
May '09     645   25        6,478
Aug. '09    688   30      19,571
Nov. '09     641    27       9,598
Feb. '10     638    27       4,480
May '10      687      9    799,000 (CMV)
July '10      600     21      31,000
Nov '10      682     24     15,000
June '11     563    23     210,000 (blasto)
July  '11      530    22      39,000
Aug '11      677     22      21,000
Sept. '12    747     15      14,000

Offline eric48

  • Standard
  • Member
  • Posts: 1,298
Re: Any advice.. or thoughs.. or anything...
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2010, 09:37:32 PM »

would you by any chance have the following series of data available:

% CD4
C8 count and / or CD8 %
and/or CD4 to CD8 ratio.

That would help...

As for CD4 drop below 500, I would not worry too much. While there is a recommendation to start meds even at these values, not all experts have rated this recommendation as strong. Partly because a strong recommendation would mechanically put some people under meds whereas, as it may be the case for you, they do not need it...

I will certainly put some thoughts on it but the above data would be very helpfull (if you have)


NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD (non-infectious) ; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   stock & donations : 6 months (2013: FOTO= 5d. ON 2d. OFF ; 2014: Clin. Trial NCT02157311 = 4days ON, 3days OFF ; 2015: use of NVP & 3TC generics
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT02157311 ;
2016: use of granted patent US9101633

Offline traveltramp

  • Member
  • Posts: 40
Re: Any advice.. or thoughs.. or anything...
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2010, 09:09:50 AM »
Hi Everyone.. thanks for taking the time to respond to me...
Nestor, thanks a lot for your encourgament.. I think it was just a shock to me since I had gotten used to the high CD4 counts.. I was having my blood checked every 4 months but changed to 6 months because I must pay for these tests myself and because the numbers seemed to at high levels.

My CD8 was 1050 which was out of range according to the lab..
It shows the CD4/CD8 as .44 with a Range of .8 to 2.8

I had just returned from a 3 month trip from Europe and North Africa and was under some emotional stress and had a bit of a party weekend about a week  before the test.. I am hoping that is the cause of the CD4 drop..

My overall health is good to execlent.. would be execlent if i was not such a heavy drinker and smoker..  I know.. I know...

I can have the lab work done because I live in Central America and it is possible to go to a lab and request whatever tests you want or that are avaiable.. it is out of pocket because I am not part of any health care plan.. Dr.s are are not easy to get when you have to pay cash..

The lab for this test is a governemtn lab and there is only one.. so i haveno choicke but to use this .. or leave the country and try to have it done somewhere else but that is also a difficult task.. so... that is why..

7/7 CD4 669
9/7 CD4 1079 V/L 1200
2/8 CD4 803   V/L 3050
4/8 CD4 805   V/L 2200
9/8 CD4 959   V/L 2418
1/9 CD4 909   V/L 550

Offline Theyer

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,695
  • Current ambition. Walk the Dog .
Re: Any advice.. or thoughs.. or anything...
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2010, 12:09:06 PM »
Thanks forgetting back, my bit about the lab was to see if there was consistency which there is so that,s a help in your situation.
Take care
"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ."  Tony Benn


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