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Author Topic: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?  (Read 5974 times)

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Offline mecch

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Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« on: November 04, 2010, 12:03:24 PM »
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/11/04/world/asia/20101105_QANTAS.html

Qantas Fleet of A380s Are Grounded After Explosion
____________

Until a bunch of air disasters around 2000 and 9/11, I had never been scared in flight.  Since then, I can't bear really huge jets.  I'm not an engineer so I can't get my head around how they manage to stay in the air. They just don't look flight worthy. 

The worst moments are when the plane arrives and can't land, and you circle slowly slowly, so high over the city. Its just seems like any moment the plane will drop like a lead balloon. 




ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Cliff

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2010, 12:39:03 PM »
Yes, I would fly it.  The big jets are actually safer!  It may not be an issue with the plane but with the engine (which is manufactured by a different company).  There is so much redundancy built into aircrafts these days, one engine going bust doesn't usually lead to anything other than an annoyance.


Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2010, 12:42:03 PM »
Now, now...

What would Erica Jong think?
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2010, 12:57:14 PM »
I've never been afraid to fly but people were probably afraid to fly with me. On certain HIV medications, especially Sustiva, I used to vomit during any little turbulence and had constant diarrhea, which was always fun for the passangers next to me. Fortunately with Reyataz, Truvada and Norvir I don't have the G.I. problems.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2010, 02:09:56 PM »


    I don't ever drink.....

    But when I have to fly, I drink enough so that everyone on the flight is my friend.  I don't mind dying so much when it's with friends.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline wellington

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2010, 03:19:25 PM »
My dad used to take me to the airport when I was 4 to watch the planes taking off and landing ... it's in my blood. I likely should have been a pilot; I fly at least 20 times a year, mostly pleasure. I'd fly on the 380 in a heartbeat, though I still have a special spot for the 747. Haven't tried out the 777 yet but hopefully in the coming years.

Hopefully the problems with the RR(Trent) engines is worked out soon so people can get back to the peace of mind when flying that they deserve.

Offline Cliff

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2010, 03:57:27 PM »
...love the B777.  When I moved to NYC, I used to travel back to Texas for work and always took Continental's 777.  Then I had a client in the UK and started flying the 747 on British Airways and fell in love again.  The speed when you take off is amazing.  I can't imagine what takeoff is like on an A380 (though I normally hate Airbuses).

Offline fearless

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2010, 04:55:46 PM »
The A380 flies past my house regularly. It actually looks quite graceful in flight, so big, quite slow and also pretty quiet compared to your average plane.

I like sitting on my verandah and plane spotting. the noisiest and scariest are the little Qantas Saab propeller planes. They get tossed around like matchsticks in any cross breeze or turbulence as they come in to land. And, the 767's are bloody noisy - they sound like they need a tune up

Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2010, 05:09:51 PM »
Back in the 90's I used to go many summer weekends to this beach near JFK airport and if I got there at the right time I'd be able to watch a London or Paris bound Concorde fly directly overhead.  There was no better plane spotting.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Cliff

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2010, 05:17:58 PM »
The A380 flies past my house regularly. It actually looks quite graceful in flight, so big, quite slow and also pretty quiet compared to your average plane.
Yep.  Our HQ is next to Heathrow and we see all the planes coming and going....the A380 looks so amazing.  You're right, it looks really, really slow and you wonder how it even stays afloat!  Sadly, we only see the Singapore and Qantas ones.  Will be nice when it's finally got a BA livery on it!

Offline mecch

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2010, 06:20:58 PM »
You're right, it looks really, really slow and you wonder how it even stays afloat! 

That's the irrational phobia I have.  You all have stronger stomachs than I have these years.  Turbulence turns me green and I start to pop lorezapams when landing is delayed.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2010, 06:33:02 PM »
Benzo's should be popped as soon as you clear security.  I don't need it because of flight jitters or inability to handle turbulence as I'm quite skilled with such things.  But if there's a young child near me or I'm squeezed next to the inevitable obese American (this even happens when I go overseas, they're everywhere) then I need handfuls of pills, plus it's much more fetch than booze.

Never pop your pills in the tax going to the airport, and if you're making a transfer to a long-haul flight at another airport wait until you get to that last gate.  Once I got so lost in haze of klonnie at Dulles my 7 hour flight to Copenhagen morphed into a 24 hour odyssey.  It was just the hugest mess.  Though the upside was spending time with his hot DJ from Montenegro in the Frankfurt airport. 
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline fearless

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2010, 07:42:42 PM »
Back in the 90's I used to go many summer weekends to this beach near JFK airport and if I got there at the right time I'd be able to watch a London or Paris bound Concorde fly directly overhead.  There was no better plane spotting.

You are right - my mates place in London was perfect for plane spotting and the Concord - just stunning.

There is one of the French Carribean Islands (St Maartens) with an airport that finishes literally on the beach. would love to go there one day. There are some great videos of it on youtube. a must do, in my book



Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2010, 07:47:49 PM »

There is one of the French Carribean Islands (St Maartens) with an airport that finishes literally on the beach. would love to go there one day. There are some great videos of it on youtube. a must do, in my book

I'm watching some now :)
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline mecch

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2010, 07:54:01 PM »
That really does not seem like a relaxing beach.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2010, 09:38:28 PM »
Yes I would.

But personally I prefer the Candair Regional Jets like the 700 used by United. They are quite a bit smaller than a long haul jet but somehow have more legroom and the boarding process is very quick, and the debarking process is even quicker as they open both the front and rear doors. Very nice ride.

-W
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2010, 12:41:24 AM »
Back in the 90's I used to go many summer weekends to this beach near JFK airport and if I got there at the right time I'd be able to watch a London or Paris bound Concorde fly directly overhead.  There was no better plane spotting.

The park next to National in D.C. is a great place to watch planes land.  They are so close flying over your head, that you could throw a ball up and hit it.  UPS has their huge hub here in Louisville.  Actually, I know at least one of the planes that had the explosives on them later landed here in Lou.  UPS was going to bring the A380 here, but they chose to go with the smaller Dreamliner from Boeing.  I was looking forward to seeing that huge plane land here.  I don't think I would be scared to fly on it.  They have private suites for long flights, right?  However, if one ever crashes, that is going to be a huge death toll. 

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2010, 01:27:39 AM »
I am deathly afraid of flying and always have been.  It got worse after 9/11, but the fear is rooted in any sort of mechanical failure leading to unavoidable death.  If a car's engine goes out you roll to a stop, if a plane has a major malfunction you plummet to a death that you probably see coming for a good minute.  This is part of the reason I was hoping the AMG would be in NOLA.

Offline Cliff

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2010, 02:38:47 AM »
It's funny you mention feeling safer in a car, because you're not.  You're much more at risk of dying, an equally horrible death, in a car than a plane.

Offline madbrain

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2010, 04:02:53 AM »
It's funny you mention feeling safer in a car, because you're not.  You're much more at risk of dying, an equally horrible death, in a car than a plane.

You are also much more likely to sustain injuries in a car accident that you will survive but will stay with you for a lifetime, whereas any small risk of plane accident that exists is more likely to be fatal and whatever pain it entails, short.

And to the original question, yes, I would love to fly in that plane. Then again, my first flight was at 3 weeks of age, from California to France. The first time I ever slept was on the plane, according to my mother.

After my father passed away a few months ago, I chose to fly on September 11 to return to San Francisco from Paris, hoping the plane wouldn't be full. No such luck. Not a seat left on the Boeing 777 with 450 passengers. And about 10% of them had to be patted down on that day. I was among them. At least I didn't have to take off my shoes !
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 04:10:57 AM by madbrain »

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2010, 07:39:17 AM »
You are also much more likely to sustain injuries in a car accident that you will survive but will stay with you for a lifetime, whereas any small risk of plane accident that exists is more likely to be fatal and whatever pain it entails, short.

True, but....  it's that moment when the plane takes that steep angle dive and the pilot says we are now over the Everglades..... then you realize you just paid $600 to become a lawn dart.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline carousel

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2010, 09:18:38 AM »
First time I saw that plane, I just thought that thing is not meant to fly.  I think they're kidding us by sticking wings on a thing that is clearly too big to get off the ground.

I don't quite see the point of it.  It's just to carry more people in cattle class.

Hate flying anyway.  Fighting the person in front, who thinks it's their right to push the seat as far back as possible.  Bitch, I'm 6 foot 4 and need every one of the 8 inch leg room I've got.  And being served food that is only one or two degrees lower than molten lava.  Oh and is there any chance I can have a full size can of coke , and I'll skip the Blossom Hill, thanks.

Add that to the fact that you know that all the cabin crew and pilots have been up all night, drinking and stuffing substances up their noses.  No amount of eye drops and pro plus is kidding me.  And you know the flight is their chance to recover and get a bit of shut eye.

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2010, 11:01:40 AM »
True, but....  it's that moment when the plane takes that steep angle dive and the pilot says we are now over the Everglades..... then you realize you just paid $600 to become a lawn dart.

Reminds me of the valu-Jet crash in the Everglades....that lady pilot actually flew the plane upside down for a bit before smacking into the glades. I bet that was a hell of a ride.

btw, Valu-jet =AirTran=Southwest.

-Will
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
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6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2010, 11:11:45 AM »
I never think about crashing when I fly.  I do think about it when in a car. 
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2010, 11:28:11 AM »
I don't worry about crashing in a plane . I like to do the driving in the car , not a very good passenger .

My ex used to smoke weed and go to sleep leaving me to do all the driving on road trips .
I broke him of the habit by letting him wake up to see my right eye closed and a little drool and some head bobbing action going on , scared the shit out of him and he never caught on I was faking falling asleep .   

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2010, 11:32:02 AM »
I do get nervous when I am riding on the back of a motorcycle with someone else driving. I have to make myself relax.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2010, 11:43:08 AM »
My favorite form of transport is definitely the subway -- the stench of urine adds a sexual element and excitement that's utterly lacking in all other modes.  Plus often an insane person will enter the car and start preaching about Jesus in a loud, animated way.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2010, 12:25:22 PM »
Reminds me of the valu-Jet crash in the Everglades....that lady pilot actually flew the plane upside down for a bit before smacking into the glades. I bet that was a hell of a ride.

btw, Valu-jet =AirTran=Southwest.

-Will
That was a preventable accident. Incorrect packaging and loading of hazardous materials and maintance not providing the Hazardous Materials Paperwork.

Offline Cliff

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2010, 01:24:43 PM »
That was a preventable accident.
Most are.

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2010, 01:34:58 PM »
It's funny you mention feeling safer in a car, because you're not.  You're much more at risk of dying, an equally horrible death, in a car than a plane.

I am completely aware of the irrationality of my fear and the chances of being hurt while in a car vs a plane.  This doesn't make the fear or the insecurity any less nerve wracking.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2010, 01:36:31 PM »
Reminds me of the valu-Jet crash in the Everglades....that lady pilot actually flew the plane upside down for a bit before smacking into the glades. I bet that was a hell of a ride.

btw, Valu-jet =AirTran=Southwest.

-Will

That's the one!!  Props to her for flying that thing upside down... the passengers must have been really relieved when the thought, "Oh, barrel roll is a common maneuver after takeoff" came to mind.  I got some really cool pictures I'm gonna scan later for you guys of my step-dad.  They were taken right after he was involved in a helicopter crash in Alaska.  He got fucccccccccccccckkkked up.

I lost a good friend in this crash, he was my ex-wife's brother.  

http://articles.cnn.com/2005-12-19/us/miami.crash_1_seaplane-crashes-passengers-and-two-crew-roger-nair?_s=PM:US

and here's video of the crash itself.  The damn wing fell off!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt_yazNRvY8
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2010, 09:04:48 PM »
That's the one!!  Props to her for flying that thing upside down...

Yes, amazing, God bless her she tried her damndest.

"Oh, barrel roll is a common maneuver after takeoff" came to mind.

LOL! ooooomg.

@Wolfter - Yes, being a passenger on a motorcycle absolutely terrifies me\
\
-Will
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Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline fearless

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #33 on: November 06, 2010, 01:23:06 AM »
It's funny you mention feeling safer in a car, because you're not.  You're much more at risk of dying, an equally horrible death, in a car than a plane.

And, you are far more likely to die in a car accident driving to or from the beach than you are from shark attack while swimming in the water.
Be forgiving, be grateful, be optimistic

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #34 on: November 06, 2010, 01:31:13 AM »
I am completely aware of the irrationality of my fear and the chances of being hurt while in a car vs a plane.  This doesn't make the fear or the insecurity any less nerve wracking.

Your fear is not irrational. It is well founded. If you are involved in a car accident you will most likely survive.You might be horribly injured, but you will probably survive. At least with quadraplegia you can't feel anything from the neck down! :)

If you are involved in a plane accident the best you can hope for is that you will be unconscious from depressurisation before the cabin is consumed in flames.

How awful if you were to survive a plane accident! Terribly burned and begging to be put out of your misery. Piled under all those seats and bodies waiting for the rescue crew to find you.

What a ghastly fate! You know that they find people alive in plane wrecks days after the fucking thing hits the ground? They do! I suppose you better hope you (or the roasted corpse next you) horded honey roasted peanuts before trays up.

But that will never happen to you.

Statistically. :)

MtD

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #35 on: November 06, 2010, 01:59:11 AM »
Your fear is not irrational. It is well founded. If you are involved in a car accident you will most likely survive.You might be horribly injured, but you will probably survive. At least with quadraplegia you can't feel anything from the neck down! :)

If you are involved in a plane accident the best you can hope for is that you will be unconscious from depressurisation before the cabin is consumed in flames.

How awful if you were to survive a plane accident! Terribly burned and begging to be put out of your misery. Piled under all those seats and bodies waiting for the rescue crew to find you.

What a ghastly fate! You know that they find people alive in plane wrecks days after the fucking thing hits the ground? They do! I suppose you better hope you (or the roasted corpse next you) horded honey roasted peanuts before trays up.

But that will never happen to you.

Statistically. :)

MtD

Dead to me.

Offline anniebc

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #36 on: November 06, 2010, 02:04:39 AM »
You are right - my mates place in London was perfect for plane spotting and the Concord - just stunning.

There is one of the French Carribean Islands (St Maartens) with an airport that finishes literally on the beach. would love to go there one day. There are some great videos of it on youtube. a must do, in my book





Wow, my bucket lists just keeps getting longer, what an amazing sight that would be, I would spend the money to be on that beach and watch that big bird coming at me...no worries.

Hugs
Jan :-*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2010, 02:24:57 AM »
I can get there for $609 round trip.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2010, 02:25:03 AM »
Dead to me.

I have been told that once the cabin depressurises you pass out. I hope that is the case. It would be horrible to to be alive and conscious all the way down, don't you think?

Screaming and wailing and begging for a god that is not there to save you whilst you grasp for an oxygen mask,

Until you collide with cold rocky earth at terminal velocity.

They say it's not the fall that kills you, but the sudden stop. :)

Happy trails!

MtD

Offline anniebc

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Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2010, 03:09:16 AM »
I can get there for $609 round trip.

and yet you are still here,..it would cost me double and some...but who knows maybe one day.. ;)

Hugs
Jan :-*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline anniebc

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,951
  • AM member since 2003
Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2010, 03:11:31 AM »
I have been told that once the cabin depressurises you pass out. I hope that is the case. It would be horrible to to be alive and conscious all the way down, don't you think?

Screaming and wailing and begging for a god that is not there to save you whilst you grasp for an oxygen mask,

Until you collide with cold rocky earth at terminal velocity.

They say it's not the fall that kills you, but the sudden stop. :)

Happy trails!

MtD


You are so evil.

Hugs
Jan :-*
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Never knock on deaths door..ring the bell and run..he really hates that.

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,239
  • Ninja Please
Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2010, 05:20:49 AM »

You are so evil.

Hugs
Jan :-*


Not as evil as the flames. I had a friend who was in a plane crash in Indonesia. It was a terrible thing. They tried to find her in the smoke and the heat and the OH MY GOD MY SKIRT HAS MELTED TO MY THIGHS GET IT OFF PLEASE DEAR GOD GET IT OFF THE PAIN IS UNBEARABLE!

They were not quick enough,

She lived, but in the most horrible way. Full thickness burns which have been partly treated by grafts and a compression suit.

Compression suits come in tasteful prints these days not just raw pink flesh tones.

Which is nice. :)

But she's the exception and not the rule. Flying is very safe. Especially for fiscal conservatives.

MtD

Offline Hellraiser

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,140
  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2010, 10:20:16 AM »
Not as evil as the flames. I had a friend who was in a plane crash in Indonesia. It was a terrible thing. They tried to find her in the smoke and the heat and the OH MY GOD MY SKIRT HAS MELTED TO MY THIGHS GET IT OFF PLEASE DEAR GOD GET IT OFF THE PAIN IS UNBEARABLE!

They were not quick enough,

She lived, but in the most horrible way. Full thickness burns which have been partly treated by grafts and a compression suit.

Compression suits come in tasteful prints these days not just raw pink flesh tones.

Which is nice. :)

But she's the exception and not the rule. Flying is very safe. Especially for fiscal conservatives.

MtD

I'm going to drive down to Australia and cut you.

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,706
Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2010, 11:37:10 AM »



   You guys wanna hear something really cool?  I heard Aaliyah rolled around in the mangroves after her plane crash for a good 5 minutes while on fire!!  That's gotta be some kind of record for people on fire, right guys?
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline next2u

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,762
Re: Would you fly in the behemoth A380?
« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2010, 02:27:53 PM »
sick, sicker, and sickest.

what the hell.

i take xanax for all my flights now. i've been flying since i was a kid. my mom's family is from florida and we live in cali so every year we were on a plane.

best,
d
midapr07 - seroconversion
sept07 - tested poz
oct07 cd4 1013; vl 13,900; cd4% 41
feb08 cd4  694;  vl 16,160; cd4% 50.1
may08 cd4 546; vl 91,480; cd4% 32
aug08 cd4 576; vl 48,190; cd4% 40.7
dec08 cd4 559; vl 63,020; cd4% 29.4
feb09 cd4 464; vl 11,000; cd4% 26
may09 cd4 544; vl 29,710; cd4% 27.2
oct09 cd4 ...; vl 23,350; cd4% 31.6
mar10 cd4 408; vl 59,050; cd4% 31.4
aug10 cd4 328; vl 80,000; cd4% 19.3 STARTED ATRIPLA
oct10 cd4 423; vl 410 ;); cd4% 30.2
jun11 cd4 439; vl <20 ;); cd4% 33.8 <-Undetectable!
mar12 cd4 695; vl ud; cd4% 38.6
jan13 cd4 738; vl ud; cd4% 36.8
aug13 cd4 930; vl ud; cd4% 44.3
jan14 cd4 813; vl ud; cd4% 42.8
may14 cd4 783; vl *; cd4%43.5

 


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