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Author Topic: I don't get the Tea Party  (Read 11157 times)

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Offline MitchMiller

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  • Posts: 453
Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #50 on: November 06, 2010, 02:25:20 AM »
Concerning ADAP I just wonder how well managed those programs are.  Has anyone ever seen a price list that states the cost to ADAP for medications?  I just suspect they are overpaying for generics like epivir.  I pay less than 50 cents per 150mg tablet, which is the full retail price.  It's FDA approved for PEPFAR.  That makes my monthly cost less than $30.   I would hope ADAP pays no more than I do.




Offline RapidRod

  • Member
  • Posts: 15,184
Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #51 on: November 06, 2010, 04:12:47 AM »
Yeah I'm guessing you did the Bush thing back in 2000.

You see people, this is why we can't have nice things. ::)

MtD
As if you live in the U.S..

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #52 on: November 06, 2010, 05:29:04 AM »
As if you live in the U.S..

Now Rodney don't be like that! :(

I often think about those who have died in the services of your nation. Purchasing their own kevlar vests and assorted protective gear whilst farmers collect corn ethanol credits at Uncle Sam's expense.

Must be a terrible burden for their families, don't ya think?

MtD

Offline RapidRod

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #53 on: November 06, 2010, 06:03:32 AM »
Now Rodney don't be like that! :(

I often think about those who have died in the services of your nation. Purchasing their own kevlar vests and assorted protective gear whilst farmers collect corn ethanol credits at Uncle Sam's expense.

Must be a terrible burden for their families, don't ya think?

MtD
Farmers? How about Ethanol producers those are the ones that get the tax credits along with auto manufactures that make and sell renewable/flex fuel using vehicles..

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2010, 06:12:35 AM »
Farmers? How about Ethanol producers those are the ones that get the tax credits along with auto manufactures that make and sell renewable/flex fuel using vehicles..

Absolutely Rodney! They are such fucking parasites. >:(

Not like you, of course. Every cent that you earn is made from the sweat of your own brow. Not a single penny of taxpayer money goes into your pocket.

Frankly, you're an example to the rest of us. Out there labouring under a harsh Ohio sun earning your fucking keep.

I have no doubt that should a guvmint welfare type turn up at the door of your elegantly appointed trailer offering cheap cheques and Demmykrat flavoured ADAP, you send him off with a load of bird shot in his keister!

Truly you're an inspiration! You are the Christine O'Donnell Rand Paul of these forums.

MtD

Offline RapidRod

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #55 on: November 06, 2010, 06:22:38 AM »
Absolutely Rodney! They are such fucking parasites. >:(

Not like you, of course. Every cent that you earn is made from the sweat of your own brow. Not a single penny of taxpayer money goes into your pocket.

Frankly, you're an example to the rest of us. Out there labouring under a harsh Ohio sun earning your fucking keep.

I have no doubt that should a guvmint welfare type turn up at the door of your elegantly appointed trailer offering cheap cheques and Demmykrat flavoured ADAP, you send him off with a load of bird shot in his keister!

Truly you're an inspiration! You are the Christine O'Donnell Rand Paul of these forums.

MtD
[/q]You want to knock the US Matty and the EU is in just as bad or worse shape. Matty the day that you pay for the keep of anyone in the US you let us know. Right now you don't know shit.  :)

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #56 on: November 06, 2010, 06:33:30 AM »
Rodney if you can find a single post where I have knocked the United States of a Miracle, I'll eat your hat.

Provided that hat is privately funded. The thought of an Obammy flavoured socialist hat passing my lips, well that just makes me wanna puke up my squirrel melt.

You're right about them EU types, all subsidies and state hand outs and able to work the quote function of a forum. They just make me sick. Fortunately in Australia we don't put up with that sort of crap.

Nor do we answer specific questions when they are put to us. No siree bob. We just pull our heads in our shells and pretend that facts and data and shit don't matter one little bit.

In that way, you'd make a great Australian. :)

MtD

Offline RapidRod

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #57 on: November 06, 2010, 06:46:55 AM »
Rodney if you can find a single post where I have knocked the United States of a Miracle, I'll eat your hat.

Provided that hat is privately funded. The thought of an Obammy flavoured socialist hat passing my lips, well that just makes me wanna puke up my squirrel melt.

You're right about them EU types, all subsidies and state hand outs and able to work the quote function of a forum. They just make me sick. Fortunately in Australia we don't put up with that sort of crap.

Nor do we answer specific questions when they are put to us. No siree bob. We just pull our heads in our shells and pretend that facts and data and shit don't matter one little bit.

In that way, you'd make a great Australian. :)

MtD
Why thank you Matty but I like it here thanks..  :)

Offline komnaes

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  • Posts: 1,893
Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #58 on: November 06, 2010, 07:03:03 AM »
Consider the Aussies have given us Murdoch and in return the US has given us Beck and Palin I think you guys should call it even.

Meanwhile while we're living under the shadow of a socialist-commie-dictatorship that is Chinaland, which ironically is as close to a capitalist dystopia as you guys can and will ever get san human rights and democracy that will soon own the Western economy as we know it and buy up all Aussieland natural resources, perhaps the teabaggers have got it right!

Come join the new pan-China era!  ;D
Aug 07 Diagnosed
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Offline Matty the Damned

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  • Posts: 12,160
Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #59 on: November 06, 2010, 07:05:42 AM »
Why thank you Matty but I like it here thanks..  :)

And why wouldn't you like it?

If I had it like you I wouldn't want to leave the Buckeye State neither. All care and no responsibility from what I can tell.

But, being Mid Western you're entitled to lecture all them rich Democrat voting states who pay for your lifestyle. That's some good shit, eh? :)

But it is heartening to know that y'all are about to provide the next Speaker of the House! I've got no doubt he'll be a ripper. Terribly orange though, don't ya think? His wife must have a hell of a time cleaning the bronzer ring out of the tub.

You never know Rodney, if the triticale crop fails you might be able to score some honest work scrubbing Brother Boehner's bath. ;)

MtD

Offline J.R.E.

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  • Posts: 6,960
  • Joined Dec-2003 Living positive, since 1985.
Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #60 on: November 06, 2010, 07:14:56 AM »



Another thread that will probably be locked down soon...
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of DEC 9th, 2013,  t-cells are at 437 Viral load  <40 .

 Current % is at 16% (L)

  
 62 years young.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #61 on: November 06, 2010, 07:31:35 AM »


Another thread that will probably be locked down soon...

Really Ray? Which one? I'm betting it's that shitty porn thread. It's been going for years with no regard for decency.

Or maybe the horse thread. I can see some cross over between the horse thread and the porn thread.

Horses always make me think of porn. I knew a horse that was totally into porn. Well not porn, he (and what a he!) was into french new wave cinema which is pretty much like porn except less boring.

The horse was ok, but he knew this mule who was a total slob. Wrecked three DVD players with oats.

It was quite a thing. Maybe Rod can get us cheap oats. :)

MtD

Granny60

  • Guest
Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #62 on: November 06, 2010, 11:08:26 AM »
Well surely no one was stupid enough to vote for him twice, right? Bush)

It is hard for me to imagine why anyone would have voted for him the first time.  Gore did win the popular vote by the way.

Online Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 23,555
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #63 on: November 06, 2010, 01:43:36 PM »
"As I said on Stewart, because we own all of the people who are running for president, we're going to turn it into a 13-week series, like Dancing with the Stars or something,"

"The Republican primaries will be a production of Fox News,"

-- Chris Wallace, Fox News
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Denver Toad

  • Member
  • Posts: 152
Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #64 on: November 06, 2010, 02:28:36 PM »
Personal opinion only but I think it's going to be an interesting couple of years. If you find a whole lot of partisan sniping and a lot of posturing without actually doing anything interesting.
The current wave of new faces in DC got swept in by, anecdotally, a whole bunch of people that "never got involved in politics before" in the Tea Party movement. They send these fresh new faces to DC to stand up to politics as usual, and bring real change (not Obama change that's really not change) to our country.
If they don't deliver, it will truly get interesting, IMHO. Especially since it sounds an awful lot like the same kind of fervor that swept in the Dems in 2008. Two years later and a perception of "business as usual" from the party in power led to a pretty broad sweep in the other direction, not unusual for a mid-term but unusual for it's boisterousness and scope. But what happens next? Hmm, crystal ball warmed up, lets take a look.
One of the first things the new majority in the House will have to do is vote to raise the debt ceiling in February. Voting to increase the debt isn't the promise they made.
The next thing on the agenda is trying to balance the budget, but aside from Ryan in WI the party line is do it without touching entitlements or defense. Since SS, Medicaid, and the Pentagon make up over 50% of our budget, the current agenda to balance the budget amounts to cutting spending not the 40% figure bandied about, but nearly 90%. That's right, if "discretionary spending" is 1.4 trillion dollars this year, and the deficit is nearly 1.2 trillion dollars, then it's a going out of business sale. Everything Must Go!
Eliminating the NEA isn't going to do it. Eliminating the Department of Education isn't going to do it. Pushing everything back down to the states isn't going to help much either, because a lot of states are broke right now.
So that leaves the three big pieces of the pie. In PA over 25% of ballots cast in this midterm were cast by folks over 65 years of age. Currently only 13% of the population of the US is over 65, so retired folks vote at a rate far higher than the general population.
In ten years, another wave of Boomers will reach the retirement age, and the percentage of folks over age of 65 will climb to over 16%. If the math holds, that translates into nearly 1/3 of "likely voters" being age 65 or older.
Who wants to be first to step right up and mandate cuts to entitlements? Means testing for SS? Benefits cuts to Medicare? Eliminating Part D?
Nope, didn't think so. Ryan, from WI, has such a proposal, interesting that no one in his own party is willing to touch it with a ten foot pole.
Who wants to tell the current crop of Fifty-somethings they have to wait until 72 to retire? Or their bennies are reduced? Who wants to get voted off the island?
If you aren't willing to reduce outlays, then you have to increase revenue. That means raising taxes. Hell, Congress doesn't even have the stomach to let a temporary tax cut expire at it's scheduled time, let alone actually raise taxes.
Instead, I think the Repubs will pursue a strategy of hounding the President and focus their efforts on getting him voted out in '12, as McConnell stated the other day. The risk of that tactic is the real possibility of alienating the very folks that just swept you back into office. Reagen and Clinton come to mind - both suffered pretty big mid-term losses in their first term. So does Truman - '46 was a clobbering, '48 was a sweep back the other way. I couldn't begin to predict if either of those models holds, or if the Repubs take both the Senate and the White House in '12.
I can say, though that if according to Madison gridlock is a worthy and desirable outcome, he would be proud of our current situation.
Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly,
Kiss slowly, Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile.

Granny60

  • Guest
Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #65 on: November 06, 2010, 05:49:22 PM »
Quote from: WillyWump

BTW, I voted for Bush-Will
[/quote

I don't even think a priest could get me to confess if I had committed such a grave error of judgment.   Maybe it was a Brain Fog moment before meds?  Are you too young to remember when his do nothing daddy was president  or how his running of the oil companies and ball team went? Here is a refresher course.
 http://alaric3rh.home.sprynet.com/science/bceo.html

 Can't seem to get this thing to do quote boxes without being backwards tonight. Gr.


 
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 05:53:25 PM by Granny60 »

Granny60

  • Guest
Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #66 on: November 06, 2010, 06:02:22 PM »
Really Ray? Which one? I'm betting it's that shitty porn thread. It's been going for years with no regard for decency.

Or maybe the horse thread. I can see some cross over between the horse thread and the porn thread.

Horses always make me think of porn. I knew a horse that was totally into porn. Well not porn, he (and what a he!) was into french new wave cinema which is pretty much like porn except less boring.

The horse was ok, but he knew this mule who was a total slob. Wrecked three DVD players with oats.

It was quite a thing. Maybe Rod can get us cheap oats. :)

MtD

Never knew a horse that was into porn,  but did a goat.  Damned goat used to give himself his own blowjobs. Guy that owned him took him to a grade school one time for a petting zoo like deal and the crazy goat decided to give it a round right in front of everybody! :o  Oh, and in keeping  with the O.P. ,  the goat owner votes republican as well as his daddy.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 08:01:15 PM by Granny60 »

Offline Assurbanipal

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,173
  • Taking a forums break, still see PM's
Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #67 on: November 06, 2010, 07:02:39 PM »
Political Motives? Frankly I could care less about who was in power for the last 2 years whether it be Obama, Bush or Mother Theresa...the Fact is that ADAP is still in crisis, and ultimately the responsibility lies at the feet of the current Congress and current President. Period.

Let me try this again.  Federal funding for ADAP went up.  State funding dropped on average 34%.
Obama and the Democrats attempted to provide more money to State budgets -- Senate Republicans stopped it.

BTW, I voted for Bush, AND I voted for Obama.

No need to fess up.  People could sorta... tell.

Did I absolutey state unequivocally that the Repubs would take care of this? No I did not. Re read my post.

No, but you clearly insinuated as much -- here's what you actually said
[/quote]
Will the Repubs do anything about it? Don't know but at least history shows that they've tried...
...
..2010- 4 Repub senators submitted the The Access ADAP Act, also known as S.3401, which would have allocated $126 million to clear the waiting lists NOW, it fell on the deaf ears of a Democratic Pres and Congress and was never even acknowledged.
[/quote]
That statement was factually inaccurate, in ignoring the House efforts, and gave credit for pushing a bill when they clearly have made next to no efforts to actually turn it into legislation.


This is the crap that pisses me off.  Oh and this wonderful "Test and Treat" initiative, it should be called "Test and put you on the back burner cause we will not fund ADAP and we cannot even get the current people waiting on Meds" While I applaud the T&T initiative, I laugh because there are no means to "treat" the people. Do they think we are stupid? Apparently so.

Stupid person? I don't think so. 

But I do think the above is a pretty stupid statement. 

What is wrong with it?  It is all emotion and ignores a lot of actual facts on the ground
1) It assumes that the only access to treatment is through ADAP -- most people get treated through insurance.  ADAP covers only about a third of people on treatment.
2) Even for those who would go on treatment and run up against a waiting list there are other options for treatment through foundations and other grants
3) There is a benefit for those who do not yet need treatment in knowing they are infected.  A lot of studies show that once people know, they almost always take much better steps to prevent infection of their partners.
4) It assumes that there would be no response to an increase in the number on the waiting lists.
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline Assurbanipal

  • Member
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  • Taking a forums break, still see PM's
Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #68 on: November 06, 2010, 07:20:57 PM »
Personal opinion only but I think it's going to be an interesting couple of years. If you find a whole lot of partisan sniping and a lot of posturing without actually doing anything interesting.
...
The next thing on the agenda is trying to balance the budget, but aside from Ryan in WI the party line is do it without touching entitlements or defense. Since SS, Medicaid, and the Pentagon make up over 50% of our budget, the current agenda to balance the budget amounts to cutting spending not the 40% figure bandied about, but nearly 90%. That's right, if "discretionary spending" is 1.4 trillion dollars this year, and the deficit is nearly 1.2 trillion dollars, then it's a going out of business sale. Everything Must Go!
...
If you aren't willing to reduce outlays, then you have to increase revenue. That means raising taxes. Hell, Congress doesn't even have the stomach to let a temporary tax cut expire at it's scheduled time, let alone actually raise taxes.
Instead, I think the Repubs will pursue a strategy of hounding the President and focus their efforts on getting him voted out in '12, as McConnell stated the other day. The risk of that tactic is the real possibility of alienating the very folks that just swept you back into office. Reagen and Clinton come to mind - both suffered pretty big mid-term losses in their first term. So does Truman - '46 was a clobbering, '48 was a sweep back the other way. I couldn't begin to predict if either of those models holds, or if the Repubs take both the Senate and the White House in '12.
I can say, though that if according to Madison gridlock is a worthy and desirable outcome, he would be proud of our current situation.


Hey Mr. Toad
I think you are right it will be an interesting two years.  But I question the analysis of the size of the deficit and the proposed fixes.

First on the deficit -- taxes were unnaturally depressed by the recession and the stock market collapse.  They will rise naturally as we come out of recession and particularly as the stock market comes back.  The US federal tax system is now much more dependent on upper income taxpayers than it was 20 years ago, and they tend to report a very large proportion of income from capital gains.  So, taxes will go up from recent lows even without a rate increase.  They won't go up enough to wipe out the deficit, but we aren't looking at a long term $1.2 trillion deficit per year.

Second -- Actually, aging of the population is a problem, but the strains put on the budget by Social Security are not the main problem.  (Social Security retirement age is already scheduled to go up to 67 -- while there is some fiscal problem left, it is actually pretty minor)  The real long term deficit crisis is due to the projected costs of Medicare and Medicaid.  That's why health care reform was both critically important and only a first step.  

If you want a center right perspecitve on the long term US fiscal issues you might check out The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget.  For the center left -- Paul Krugman and Peter Orszag have columns in the online NYTimes.




edit -- oops "without" not "with"
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 07:22:36 PM by Assurbanipal »
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Online Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #69 on: November 06, 2010, 08:36:44 PM »
This should be lots o' fun to see how it effects HIV'ers in the Lone Star State!

NY Times: Texas Considers Medicaid Withdrawal
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline WillyWump

  • Member
  • Posts: 7,017
Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #70 on: November 06, 2010, 08:42:15 PM »
If you want to solve the ADAP crisis, you must look to each state and their contributions to the program. The reason there are waiting lists, is NOT because of Congress or the president, it is because of states that cut their funding.

I'm certain everyone uderstands how ADAP is funded, and I agree that Congress nor the President did not "Create" waiting lists. My contention is that Congress can bailout the ADAP programs in the states that are in trouble, just as they can bailout state education systems and medicaid, etc... It is in their power to do so, they are not prohibited from acting on this. They have just failed to do so, at least fully.

The ADAP crisis is a Public Health Emergency, and as such the Federal Government has a duty to act to help the states. I am not calling for a complete long term takeover of States ADAP programs by the Feds, I am simply saying we need emergency funding Now and continuing until the crisis abates either due to Obamacare of as the result of state budgets improving.

If the feds can give $25 million to help out ADAP they can damn well give $126 million or whatever the cost may be to fully clear the lists.

It seems as though you might be inferring that the Feds cannot do anything about this crisis.

From NASTAD:

The programís viability depends on federal funding awards and state general revenue support for the stateís fiscal year (in most states this began on July 1, 2010). With growing client demand for ADAP services, minimal federal increases and continued cuts in state funding, it is paramount that emergency federal resources be made available to stave off the crisis many ADAPs and the clients they serve are facing. ADAPs nationally experienced unprecedented client growth from FY2008 to 2009 with an average monthly growth of 1,271 clients (an increase of 80 percent from FY2008 when the average monthly growth was 706 clients over FY2007).


-Will
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 08:54:04 PM by WillyWump »
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Last Labs-
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%
8/9/12, CD4 not taken, UD.
2/13/12, CD4- 904, UD 42%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline WillyWump

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #71 on: November 06, 2010, 09:18:32 PM »
Let me try this again.  Federal funding for ADAP went up.  State funding dropped on average 34%.
Obama and the Democrats attempted to provide more money to State budgets -- Senate Republicans stopped it.


Please explain how the administration was able to come up with $26 million to clear the lists in a couple states.

No, but you clearly insinuated as much -- here's what you actually said

Will the Repubs do anything about it? Don't know but at least history shows that they've tried.....


Beautiful sound bite, however you forgot to include this...."I may feel the same about the Repubs in 2 years, but time will tell"

But I do think the above is a pretty stupid statement.  

What is wrong with it?  It is all emotion and ignores a lot of actual facts on the ground
1) It assumes that the only access to treatment is through ADAP -- most people get treated through insurance.  ADAP covers only about a third of people on treatment.

Of course not everyone with HIV is on ADAP. I never said otherwise. I assumed the reader would know this without stating the obvious. However I submit that even ONE person on a waiting list is too many.


2) Even for those who would go on treatment and run up against a waiting list there are other options for treatment through foundations and other grants

Agreed, but please provide some supporting information that everyone on waiting lists is being covered through these means.

3) There is a benefit for those who do not yet need treatment in knowing they are infected.  A lot of studies show that once people know, they almost always take much better steps to prevent infection of their partners.

Absolutely agreed! Show me where I said this was not true, I applaud the initiative wholeheartedly, my concern is that they did not provide a mechanism to get people Meds immediately if need be. However I'll go further and propose that perhaps the inverse of that statement is true...Is there a potential that someone diagnosed under T&T with a cd4 of 25 and a VL in the millions is then placed on a waiting list , but under the pressure of it all just "gives up" and goes off the radar and throws in the towel?

-will



« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 09:28:51 PM by WillyWump »
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%
8/9/12, CD4 not taken, UD.
2/13/12, CD4- 904, UD 42%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Granny60

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #72 on: November 06, 2010, 09:38:50 PM »
ADAPs nationally experienced unprecedented client growth from FY2008 to 2009 with an average monthly growth of 1,271 clients (an increase of 80 percent from FY2008 when the average monthly growth was 706 clients over FY2007).


-Will

If the Republicans are going to insist on the perverted rightwing anti sex education anti condom crap they insisted on during the sorryfull Bush years, they can expect the long term trend of increasing cases to continue to grow.  Even the brain dead can figure out something as simple as that. Best chance a person will have to get increased funding in that case is if every congressman, senator and priest's daughters get HIV. Hate to say such a thing,  but unless it hits home, it is not a priority.  That is the part of the reason why they have all the criminal prosecution laws against HIVer's now.  they don't want their own family slut infected, so they legislate against it,  but I guarantee,  if their wife and daughter and dad and Mom had HIV, they would do anything  to help them.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #73 on: November 06, 2010, 09:49:05 PM »
If the Republicans are going to insist on the perverted rightwing anti sex education anti condom crap they insisted on during the sorryfull Bush years, they can expect the long term trend of increasing cases to continue to grow.  Even the brain dead can figure out something as simple as that. Best chance a person will have to get increased funding in that case is if every congressman, senator and priest's daughters get HIV. Hate to say such a thing,  but unless it hits home, it is not a priority.  That is the part of the reason why they have all the criminal prosecution laws against HIVer's now.  they don't want their own family slut infected, so they legislate against it,  but I guarantee,  if their wife and daughter and dad and Mom had HIV, they would do anything  to help them.
Oh right. It isn't the lack of education it's because people don't think and don't care.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #74 on: November 06, 2010, 09:54:50 PM »
Abstinence Only, Folks!  Let's have some personal responsibilityô eh Roddie?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline WillyWump

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #75 on: November 06, 2010, 10:02:29 PM »
What's needed is the EDUCATION of both State and Federal political leaders on the situation both Repub and Dems, and to a large extent the public in general. I bet that if you went up to 100 congressioanl members and asked them how many people were on ADAP waiting lists that perhaps maybe 10 would know what ADAP even was.

I believe that if the Political leaders of the US knew what was going on with the ADAP crisis we would have a better chance of getting it rectified. If not by compassion alone, then by a purely budgetary and common sense approach. ie. It is cheaper to fund ADAP fully and provide everyone who needs it life saving meds, than to treat them in the Emergency rooms over and over due to not having the virus udner control. Put money on the front end instead of the backend. If Obama would make one speech about the situation this would go far in shedding the light on the shadowy ADAP crisis. \

-Will
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%
8/9/12, CD4 not taken, UD.
2/13/12, CD4- 904, UD 42%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
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Offline ElZorro

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #76 on: November 06, 2010, 10:07:22 PM »
What's needed is the EDUCATION of both State and Federal political leaders on the situation both Repub and Dems, and to a large extent the public in general. I bet that if you went up to 100 congressioanl members and asked them how many people were on ADAP waiting lists that perhaps maybe 10 would know what ADAP even was.

I believe that if the Political leaders of the US knew what was going on with the ADAP crisis we would have a better chance of getting it rectified. If not by compassion alone, then by a purely budgetary and common sense approach. ie. It is cheaper to fund ADAP fully and provide everyone who needs it life saving meds, than to treat them in the Emergency rooms over and over due to not having the virus udner control. Put money on the front end instead of the backend. If Obama would make one speech about the situation this would go far in shedding the light on the shadowy ADAP crisis. \

-Will

It would be great if someone would do an expose on this situation as well as the progress that has been made in HIV/AIDS research and treatment so that the public at large could be made aware of how things have changed and, perhaps, also address the social stigma that is still associated with the virus. Perhaps someone needs to shoot Michael Moore an email. Might be right up his alley.  ;)

Granny60

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #77 on: November 06, 2010, 10:13:59 PM »
Oh right. It isn't the lack of education it's because people don't think and don't care.

Education is a repetitive thought process.  Remember all the years of math and  language arts classes?????  Very few people  are savants or have photographic memories.  If you never tell your kids about HIV,  or drugs,  driving without a seat belt, or knocking up their first date many are going to suffer regrettable  consequences. You can't tell me that there is no such thing as unintended pregnancies  where the participants were playing by ear because nobody told them about sex. Please get in touch with the REAL world.  I happen to know several people that learned about sex on their own by trial and error. The error side was a surprise for some of them.  Some families do not talk about those things... ever.  some churches and and many political entities  chose the same... as a matter of fact demand that it not be brought out in the open.  ??? ::)

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #78 on: November 06, 2010, 10:23:33 PM »
What's needed is the EDUCATION of both State and Federal political leaders on the situation both Repub and Dems, and to a large extent the public in general. I bet that if you went up to 100 congressioanl members and asked them how many people were on ADAP waiting lists that perhaps maybe 10 would know what ADAP even was.

What the fuck to you think has been going on for the past twenty years before you got butt flu?  Activists just sitting around drinking shots of tequila?  One of my best friends here in Philly goes down to DC once a year as part of the Ryan White Planning Council and meets with congressmen and/or staff, and it's all done in coordination with activists from all over the country.

Hey, guess what Texas Pete -- now that the Rethuglicans are in charge and seeing as how 98% of them come from your state, why don't you go camp out at their local offices and wave some signs?  Us Blue Staters don't have any pull right now with the incoming House leadership, so it's up to you other girls to pull your weight in Texas, Florida, etc.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Granny60

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #79 on: November 06, 2010, 10:25:17 PM »

 It is cheaper to fund ADAP fully and provide everyone who needs it life saving meds, than to treat them in the Emergency rooms over and over due to not having the virus under control.

-Will

You sir, are correct!

That is the whole basis which is supposed to make the healthcare plan that passed  that the teabaggers and republicans both have now stated they want to repeal,  work.  Lost productivity, more expensive emergency care, and more expensive critical care vs. low cost preventative care measures.   I swear, those  who oppose are too narrow minded to even do a simple spread sheet and look at the projections.  Many of technologically  advanced countries in the world that have taken our jobs have national healthcare and still compete. We are the last one to get with the program.

Offline WillyWump

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #80 on: November 06, 2010, 10:34:41 PM »
What the fuck to you think has been going on for the past twenty years before you got butt flu?  Activists just sitting around drinking shots of tequila?  One of my best friends here in Philly goes down to DC once a year as part of the Ryan White Planning Council and meets with congressmen and/or staff, and it's all done in coordination with activists from all over the country.


No I absolutely believe that activists over the past 20 years can be credited for single handedly getting us to where we are today. Im submitting that there STILL needs to be more education. There needs to be more peope like your friend. Agreed that I and everyone here including yourself can and should be trying to make a difference in what ever way possible, I have written letters (which is nothing) to Hutchinson and Cornyn and Obama concerning the ADAP crisis. I embrace the fact that I need to be doing more. We all need too.

-Will
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 10:50:11 PM by WillyWump »
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%
8/9/12, CD4 not taken, UD.
2/13/12, CD4- 904, UD 42%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #81 on: November 06, 2010, 10:53:56 PM »
No I absolutely believe that activists over the past 20 years can be credited for single handedly getting us to where we are today. Im submitting that there STILL needs to be more education.

So then you agree that your comment that probably only 10 people in Congress know what ADAP is was pure bullcrap?
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline WillyWump

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #82 on: November 06, 2010, 11:03:12 PM »
So then you agree that your comment that probably only 10 people in Congress know what ADAP is was pure bullcrap?

No I stand by that, although that's not exactly what I said, I said 10 in 100, since there are what 535 people in Congress that would work out to about 50 people.

I do not pretend to know how many people in Congress knows what ADAP is, my belief is that it is very few people. The statement I made was purely to make a point. I have no supporting reference to this.

How many people in Congress do you think could answer what ADAP is?

-WIll

POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%
8/9/12, CD4 not taken, UD.
2/13/12, CD4- 904, UD 42%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #83 on: November 06, 2010, 11:05:28 PM »

How many people in Congress do you think could answer what ADAP is?

-WIll



Don't know.

Hey Texas Pete -- no comment on my link down below about Texas thinking of cutting out Medicaid?  How many pozzies is that going to fuck up?  Folks get meds through that too you know.  Better get those signs going.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline WillyWump

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #84 on: November 06, 2010, 11:17:23 PM »
Don't know.


"So then you agree that your comment that probably only 10 people in Congress know what ADAP is was pure bullcrap?" - You obviously have a strong opinion on my belief that very few people in Congress know what ADAP is, so why don't you share those beliefs instead of merely giving an "I don't Know"??

Hey Texas Pete -- no comment on my link down below about Texas thinking of cutting out Medicaid?  How many pozzies is that going to fuck up?  Folks get meds through that too you know.  Better get those signs going.

I cannot solve all the countries problems in one night so let's stick to the ADAP crisis (which is already a hijack), I am curious to know what your thought is on the Federal government providing Assistance to bailout the current ADAP crisis?

-Will
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%
8/9/12, CD4 not taken, UD.
2/13/12, CD4- 904, UD 42%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #85 on: November 06, 2010, 11:22:05 PM »
let's stick to the ADAP crisis

That's such a dodge -- the thread topic is the Tea Party, not ADAP.  Now get going on Medicaid asit accounts for half of all federal spending on HIV/AIDS and your Tea Bag Slice o' Heaven state might be cutting it off.

I'll tell you one thing -- if this happens in a state like yours with +60,000 HIV diagnosis it will make the ADAP crisis look like child's play.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 11:26:03 PM by Miss Philicia »
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline WillyWump

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #86 on: November 06, 2010, 11:50:22 PM »
That's such a dodge -- the thread topic is the Tea Party, not ADAP.  Now get going on Medicaid asit accounts for half of all federal spending on HIV/AIDS and your Tea Bag Slice o' Heaven state might be cutting it off.

I'll tell you one thing -- if this happens in a state like yours with +60,000 HIV diagnosis it will make the ADAP crisis look like child's play.

I have zero knowledge of the Texas pulling out of Medicaid thing, I will be sure to study it and comment in the next few days. Perhaps you should start a new thread on this?

Now...

You obviously have a strong opinion on my belief that very few people in Congress know what ADAP is, so why don't you share those beliefs instead of merely giving an "I don't Know"??

I am curious to know what your thought is on the Federal government providing Assistance to bailout the current ADAP crisis?

Still waiting on your thoughts, any thoughts?

-Will

POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%
8/9/12, CD4 not taken, UD.
2/13/12, CD4- 904, UD 42%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #87 on: November 07, 2010, 12:02:31 AM »


I am curious to know what your thought is on the Federal government providing Assistance to bailout the current ADAP crisis?

Still waiting on your thoughts, any thoughts?

-Will



Yes, in fact I do have a solution -- if Red States can't adhere to the federal/state funding of ADAP, meaning their part of the program, then they should lose the federal funding and be dropped entirely from the program.  In this way we can finally begin to reduce the budget deficit.  Once pozzies start to die in the street then maybe, just maybe, people in those states will begin to do more than "write letters".
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Granny60

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #88 on: November 07, 2010, 12:06:19 AM »
No I stand by that, although that's not exactly what I said, I said 10 in 100, since there are what 535 people in Congress that would work out to about 50 people.

I do not pretend to know how many people in Congress knows what ADAP is, my belief is that it is very few people. The statement I made was purely to make a point. I have no supporting reference to this.

How many people in Congress do you think could answer what ADAP is?

-WIll



 Having dealt with politicians for decades and having some friends including a Governor, Attorney General, etc., (all good  democrats by the way!) , i can tell you that most of the time the elected officials are going to brush you off to some aide that will advise them whether the issue is worthy of their attention and is politically  sensitive enough to warrant their time. That is where the lobbyists get their clout with more $  perks, and advertising.  you have 20,000 HIV pos people in need of assistance in a State and they don't have any money, most are afraid to go public, many can't afford to take off work to  protest or suck up,  or are too sick/ don't have transportation,  etc,  in a state of 7 million people,  then you have some lobby with millions of $ to spend and more than willing to  put a hundred grand in a campaign or buy ads on the side, free dinner, free trips, etc.,  who do you think gets the nod?   The people with HIV are not going to win support on sympathy as a minority.  I would bet you are right, very few senators or representatives would know what ADAP is with asking an aide to look it up.  ???  Our best bet is to enlist the drug companies with their $ and local politicians with their access to get help on the national level.  The worst part about that is it is going to  mean that many of us who cannot make our status public, have to put that at risk for  the rest of us . e.g. Harvey Milk/ Ryan White.   I had a political  loser tell me back in February, that "there are programs to help people like you....   don't remember the name.... some guy that had Aids a long time back." She meant Ryan White but didn't  know who he was or what the program was called and the benefits she was talking about aren't even part of that program.  >:( ??? ::)
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 12:08:14 AM by Granny60 »

Offline ElZorro

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #89 on: November 07, 2010, 12:09:32 AM »
Yes, in fact I do have a solution -- if Red States can't adhere to the federal/state funding of ADAP, meaning their part of the program, then they should lose the federal funding and be dropped entirely from the program.  In this way we can finally begin to reduce the budget deficit.  Once pozzies start to die in the street then maybe, just maybe, people in those states will begin to do more than "write letters".

Reclaiming the ADAP funds from the "red states" wouldn't even register as a "blip" against the budget deficit. Just like funding the shortfall wouldn't have any significant impact on the current federal budget. That's why it's absolutely ridiculous that anyone is waiting to receive the meds that will keep them alive.

Granny60

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #90 on: November 07, 2010, 12:13:37 AM »
Here is the link. today's New York times as well as many other sources  have published it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/us/politics/07ttmedicaid.html

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #91 on: November 07, 2010, 12:22:27 AM »
I already linked to it once here and it fell on deaf ears.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline ElZorro

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #92 on: November 07, 2010, 12:23:12 AM »
Costs of the wars in the middle east:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0933935.html

Over one trillion dollars and counting

ADAP waiting lists:

http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparetable.jsp?ind=552&cat=11

3500 * $25k per = $88 million

It's really about priorities. We're willing to use the "b" word to fund a war and "protect and promote" democracy overseas, but can't find a few million to save American lives...for shame.  ???

Offline leatherman

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #93 on: November 07, 2010, 12:31:30 AM »
maybe, just maybe, people in those states will begin to do more than "write letters".
what other suggestions do you have to offer?

I've voted, written letters, called and spoken with state legislators, sent emails, signed petitions, waved signs on the steps of the capital and sat in the chambers with signs during their budgeting meetings, met and spoke legislators in person and have gotten as many people as I know to do the same; yet we're still outnumbered by the majority in the state who think differently on political matters than I do. I've also been passing out literature, writing editorial letters, speaking to school groups and at donation campaigns trying to educate people about safe sex (to keep people from adding to the numbers) along with explaining the ADAP problem. Just because the majority of people in my state don't understand the correct solution to the problem (sounds like "education" is a problem), should America let pozzies go without meds, incurring potential deaths, while continuing to spread HIV?

Yes, in fact I do have a solution ...they should lose the federal funding and be dropped entirely from the program. ...  Once pozzies start to die in the street ...
wow. I guess your answer, to my rhetorical question above, is to let people die.

not sending more money to states that need it just because they have bad representation only punishes the sick. I seem to remember back in the old days (ah the 80s) standing with the ACT-UP crowd cause the government thought a bunch of "queers dying from some disease they got from screwing" wasn't their problem. Now you're suggesting to let the pozzies die because their state governments still don't care if a bunch of people are dying from the aids. didn't you learn anything from watching your friends die all those years ago? A big part of the government is never going to care about pozzies and it's up to each of us to fight FOR each other - regardless of what state we live in.

of course, the HIV won't stay just within the boundaries of SC, Texas, Flordia, Georgia, or Ohio either. That's the nature of a communicable disease - it is EVERYONE's problem, whether in a red or blue state - which is the reason America funds HIV/AIDS treatment and prevention in other parts of the world. Why shouldn't the federal government also make sure that HIV/AIDS prevention and treatment covers all it's own territory too?

if Red States can't adhere to the federal/state funding of ADAP, meaning their part of the program, then they should lose the federal funding and be dropped entirely from the program.
which to bring it back around to the topic, pretending that ADAP funding is a red or blue state funding problem sounds awfully like a tea party slant to America's HIV/AIDS problem.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 12:36:14 AM by leatherman »
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Oh my friends, my friends forgive me
That I live and you are gone.
There's a grief that can't be spoken.
There's a pain goes on and on.
Empty chairs at empty tables
Where my friends will meet no more.

"Empty Chairs at Empty Tables" from Les Miserables

Online Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #94 on: November 07, 2010, 12:45:36 AM »
So let me get this right Bivens -- you're asking someone in New York or California that already pays a really high tax rate to offset the low tax rate in South Carolina that is incapable of paying for ADAP?  What else should we buy for the citizens of the Palmetto State? I mean why stop with some measly AZT capsules, how about if we give you money for pot hole repairs and fertilizer for the governor's putting green.

And say the good citizens of New York and California do, in fact, take pity on your poz ass and fork over the dough what happens when a month later they cut more people off ADAP in an effort to squeeze out some more money from those naive Yanks?  And when we give you yet a second installment what happens when your state then stops Medicaid coverage.

I could keep going with this line of thought if you'd like.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 12:47:40 AM by Miss Philicia »
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Offline leatherman

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #95 on: November 07, 2010, 01:22:16 AM »
you're asking someone in New York or California that already pays a really high tax rate to offset the low tax rate in South Carolina that is incapable of paying for ADAP?
I sure do, David. To stop this epidemic, I think it's incumbent on ALL of America to stop and/or treat HIV wherever it is.

I think all the overtaxed people in NY and Cali (and the other 48 states) need to fork over money to pay for AIDS prevention and treatment in Malawi, South Africa, etc. too. So if it's okay to do PEPFAR for the whole world, it's okay to do it for all the states too. (Although I am assuming that you agree with the American policy to pay for people in other countries to get meds while the gov't of those countries buy military planes and waste their capital on fraud, waste and theft. I don't think I've ever heard you expounding against American spending money to solve the HIV/AIDS epidemic in other parts of the world.)

Do you really think that pozzies in the States should die to prove some point?
It sure won't be the state legislators who are dying without HIV meds.

and why continue along this line of reasoning? because it's a freaking epidemic.
This is about the ultimate in "universal health care"

Epidemics don't care about boundaries, borders, red or blue states, who's paying taxes, or who's a D or R. If you let SC, Florida and Texas become hotbeds of raging HIV/AIDS epidemic, it won't be long until it becomes more of a problem back in NY and Cali (and elsewhere). Looking back at and learning from the history of HIV in America, it's because of the hotbeds of early HIV infection in big cities in Cali and NY that HIV spread as it did throughout the states. Not stopping HIV in every state, would just cause the reverse to happen 10 yrs in the future.

Of course, one alternative (I'm trying to think of other solutions, any solutions) would be for pozzies to move to the states that do provide better care for their citizens; but then the states you are railing against would just get off scott free of paying anything at all towards the problem. At least while people stay in FL and Texas, those states are having to deal with the accompanying issues of medical care, food stamps, housing, etc.

Whether it's Malawi that won't pay for it's citizens HIV health care or SC, FL or TX that won't pay for it's citizens HIV health care, it's only wise to step in and handle the situation to save lives, to save money in the long run, and (selfishly) to save everyone else in the world from the epidemic too.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Oh my friends, my friends forgive me
That I live and you are gone.
There's a grief that can't be spoken.
There's a pain goes on and on.
Empty chairs at empty tables
Where my friends will meet no more.

"Empty Chairs at Empty Tables" from Les Miserables

Offline mecch

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #96 on: November 07, 2010, 04:36:54 AM »
I think the solution to the problem of ADAP is for democrats and concerned citizens to depend Health Care Reform.  It will take a long time for Americans as a whole to cherish universal care, as they now cherish social security, unemployment, etc., but over time it will become the norm.
I think democrats should ask tough questions of tea partiers about fiscal responsibility because whining about safety net expenditures, maybe even cutting them, isn't going to do jack squat.
The only way forward is progressive taxation and Elizabeth Warren type advocacy that appeals to a broad majority of Mr. and Mrs. tout-le-monde.  If the government becomes only a puppet of the super rich, banana republic status is assured.  Some weird and very dangerous banana republic with a powerful military. Gated communities etc etc. Soylent Green time.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Ann

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #97 on: November 07, 2010, 06:51:14 AM »
This should be lots o' fun to see how it effects HIV'ers in the Lone Star State!

NY Times: Texas Considers Medicaid Withdrawal

Why doesn't Texas just become the Lone Star Country and get it over with? Haven't they talked secession for years now? Of course there'd be a huge exodus of ~ahem~ normal people out of the place, but hey, it's all good if right-wing Texans were dumped out of the American political system. The remaining Texans could build a wall around the place and be left to stew in their lack of health care and education. They'd implode sooner or later and the geography could be returned to America.

It really boggles my mind to watch what the direction America seems to be going. It's like watching a train wreck and it scares the shit out of me.
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline RapidRod

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #98 on: November 07, 2010, 07:05:35 AM »
Why doesn't Texas just become the Lone Star Country and get it over with? Haven't they talked secession for years now? Of course there'd be a huge exodus of ~ahem~ normal people out of the place, but hey, it's all good if right-wing Texans were dumped out of the American political system. The remaining Texans could build a wall around the place and be left to stew in their lack of health care and education. They'd implode sooner or later and the geography could be returned to America.

It really boggles my mind to watch what the direction America seems to be going. It's like watching a train wreck and it scares the shit out of me.
Why would it scare you? You aren't living in the US.  ::)

Offline Ann

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #99 on: November 07, 2010, 07:11:56 AM »
Why would it scare you? You aren't living in the US.  ::)

It scares me because what people get away with happens in the US often emboldens conservatives all around the world. People here in the UK sometimes agitate that we should have a health care system more like the mess that you have - those people have obviously not lived under both systems like I have and have no idea what they're talking about.

I also have family and friends who live in the US. So yes, I'm frightened for them. I'm not one of those "I'm ok, Jack" people, I care about others too.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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