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Author Topic: I don't get the Tea Party  (Read 11214 times)

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Offline mecch

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I don't get the Tea Party
« on: November 03, 2010, 07:02:33 AM »
I am a registered Democrat and my candidates won. Yeah.

I don't understand the Tea Party. Any Tea Partiers in here? Is it just a new branch in the Republican Party?

I don't understand why it is a "populist" movement - but so against health care reform, for example.  It seems (to me) its really some kind of civil libertarian movement.

I dunno, I guess as a born and bred Democrat, I'll never really get the logic.  Could you be unemployed and still be a Tea Partier, this year?  Could you be uninsured and be a Tea Partier?  Could you be struggling for a secure present and future and be a Tea Partier? 

It reminds me of those California college students I met this summer in Europe. Who were such civil libertarians - universal health care??? Who needs that?  No clue whatsoever about how capitalism can make some peoples lives a pile crap and worry.

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline bocker3

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2010, 07:45:18 AM »
First -- NO, I am not a Tea Partier.

However, their main tenets seem to be:

1.  Stop spending
2.  Cut taxes (TEA stands for Taxed Enough Already)
3.  If it isn't expliciting stated in the US Constitution, then the Federal Government can't do it -- only the states.

Of course, they then talk about getting back to god... so just like the current political parties they talk out of their mouths AND theirs ass at the same time.
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Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2010, 10:40:43 AM »
You might find this survey from a few months ago pretty interesting -- lots of detail about opinions of people who say they support the tea party

A New York Times/CBS News poll of backers of the emerging Tea Party movement shows that its supporters are more affluent and better educated than the general public. They tend to be white, male, and married. They are loyal Republicans, with conservative opinions on a variety of issues. And their strong opposition to the Obama administration is more rooted in political ideology than anxiety about their personal economic situation

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/04/14/us/politics/20100414-tea-party-poll-graphic.html?ref=politics
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Offline AlanBama

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2010, 02:09:55 PM »
They tend to be white, male, and married. They are loyal Republicans, with conservative opinions on a variety of issues. And their strong opposition to the Obama administration is more rooted in political ideology than anxiety about their personal economic situation


Also, I always feel there is a lot of underlying racial prejudice involved....just sayin'   ???
"Remember my sentimental friend that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others." - The Wizard of Oz

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2010, 03:06:43 PM »
I think it's hard for any one of us to identify with any conservative political movement for a couple of pretty basic reasons.  We're all minorities in one way or another and that is not who conservativism serves.  I'm a white male and southern which is the target for say republican or tea party ideals, but I'm also gay and hiv+.  I do have my conservative leanings, but most of them are financial.  This of course ignoring the fact that the republicans are no longer the party of fiscal responsibility.  Anyway, I could never be a part of a political movement that sought to broaden the financial gap between people, deny healthcare or education to anyone, or deny civil rights.  Those things are so ingrained in conservativism now I have no idea how those parties are still able to appeal to younger people.  If they ran on a platform of economic reform alone without all the gray social issues they might be a more desirable party to younger people, but they keep going further and further right and into insane territory.

Offline Lucky2behere

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2010, 03:34:59 PM »
I thought Tea bagging and Tea Partys were the same   ;)
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Granny60

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2010, 03:42:15 PM »


I dunno, I guess as a born and bred Democrat, I'll never really get the logic.



 i clearly see your problem understanding mech...... it is the breeding and born Democrat part.  Tea baggers are conjurred up  by the witches in the coven and do not breed, hence your lack of understanding! ;D Now where did I hide the wooden stakes and silver bullets????
« Last Edit: November 03, 2010, 04:39:32 PM by Granny60 »

Online RapidRod

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2010, 03:51:54 PM »

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2010, 04:04:17 PM »

Granny60

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2010, 04:42:51 PM »
So the teabaggers and republicans  cried a river to get elected. Time will prove as in the past,  they still haven't fixed shit.

Online RapidRod

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2010, 04:53:44 PM »
So the teabaggers and republicans  cried a river to get elected. Time will prove as in the past,  they still haven't fixed shit.
Neither did the democrats. How did the DADT go? How did the gay marriage go? Simple promises that he couldn't even take care of.

Offline Theyer

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2010, 04:58:22 PM »
My understanding off the tea party is that it angry right wing simplistic Christian and potentially very dangerous hopefully it will show itself as your basic ludicrous power drive by Sarah palim and co that will disintergrate under real responsibility and give us all a good laugh.
However listening to them on the BBC world service and sensing the Republican establishment  wanting to draw them in , they could be scary.
t
"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ."  Tony Benn

Offline mecch

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2010, 05:15:12 PM »
Well it would be nice if the dems would grow a set of balls and stand up for the party platform they have half-assed pursued.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline mecch

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2010, 05:22:30 PM »
“Over the last generation,” the authors write, “more and more of the rewards of growth have gone to the rich and superrich. The rest of America, from the poor through the upper middle class, has fallen further and further behind.”

As if to underscore this theme, it was revealed last week (by David Cay Johnston, a Pulitzer Prize-winning former reporter for The New York Times), that the incomes of the very highest earners in the United States, a small group of individuals hauling in more than $50 million annually (sometimes much more), increased fivefold from 2008 to 2009, even as the nation was being rocked by the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression.

Last year was a terrific year for those at the very top. Professors Hacker and Pierson note in their book that investors and executives at the nation’s 38 largest companies earned a stunning total of $140 billion — a record. The investment firm Goldman Sachs paid bonuses to its employees that averaged nearly $600,000 per person, its best year since it was founded in 1869.

Something has gone seriously haywire in the distribution of the fruits of the American economy.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/02/opinion/02herbert.html?src=me&ref=homepage
Op-Ed Columnist
Fast Track to Inequality
By BOB HERBERT
Published: November 1, 2010
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Granny60

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2010, 05:37:34 PM »
Neither did the democrats. How did the DADT go? How did the gay marriage go? Simple promises that he couldn't even take care of.
So Roddy,  what do you think you will have if the republicans get rid of health care and make the gays all hide quaking under a rug because retaliation and retribution are the norm? The republican right wing wack jobs and the nut case Rand Paul have already said they would introduce legislation to repeal healthcare. >:(  Every side has to give and take. ;) Dems gave a little to get a lot done in a short while.  ;D Republicans  never have done shit but bitch because the democrats can run someone attractive and smart  enough to get a blow job and they can't,  started an expensive war both in $ and lives that can't find the weapons of mass destruction they claimed were there to start with; and then they bitch about expenses????? Give me a break! ::)

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2010, 06:38:55 PM »

Are those for John Boehner as he cries for the 27th time?
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Online RapidRod

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2010, 06:55:43 PM »
Are those for John Boehner as he cries for the 27th time?
Nah it's for all the democratic liberals that lost their seats and for Obama.

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2010, 06:57:42 PM »
Nah it's for all the democratic liberals that lost their seats and for Obama.

Really?  I mean, you actually posted this?  I know you've been gone a while, but this seems to reek of someone just attempting to stir shit and calling it political discourse.

Online RapidRod

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2010, 07:01:10 PM »
Really?  I mean, you actually posted this?  I know you've been gone a while, but this seems to reek of someone just attempting to stir shit and calling it political discourse.
Really? You don't like it when people don't agree with you? Apparently you didn't see the election result. It seems that a whole hell of a lot of people didn't agree with you.

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2010, 07:04:53 PM »
Really? You don't like it when people don't agree with you? Apparently you didn't see the election result. It seems that a whole hell of a lot of people didn't agree with you.

You can refer to my previous post to which your reply has absolutely nothing to do in the way of a coherent conversation.

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2010, 07:11:25 PM »
... I do have my conservative leanings, but most of them are financial.  This of course ignoring the fact that the republicans are no longer the party of fiscal responsibility.  ...

Ahem -- there is a big perception vs reality issue here.  The fact is that republicans have not been the party of fiscal responsibility since before any of us were born including all but a few years of the early 20th century.  There's a handy chart somewhere that George Will (not exactly your bleeding heart liberal) was using over 20 years ago.  It shows that the actual fact is that the debt as a percent of GDP tends to increase under Republican Presidents and decrease under Democrats.  His explanation is that while Democrats may be the party of tax and spend, Republicans have for decades been the party of borrow and spend. 

You may of course say -- but what about RIGHT NOW?  Right now, the deficit is large primarily due to the recession bringing tax revenues down.  If you graph expenditures and taxes you will see that, even with the increases in government spending due to additional unemployment the spending line is continuing on its historical path (which we need to do something about)  The huge deficits are caused by a sudden change in the slope of the tax rates. http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/17/why-have-deficits-exploded/

And, like a typical Democratic President, Obama already has a bipartisan commission looking at ways to bring the deficit and debt down.
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2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
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2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline ds4146

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2010, 09:11:07 PM »
You can refer to my previous post to which your reply has absolutely nothing to do in the way of a coherent conversation.
I don't think you read the reply that he was responding too.....don't jump the gun. As for Johnny, who has time to count how many times he has cried? It could be better spent I am sure.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2010, 09:55:30 PM »
This is hilarious, but hey teabaggers you still didn't get him out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QbNGnvBR7k
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline tednlou2

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2010, 10:49:00 PM »
It will be interesting to see how things go with the Repub establishment and these tea-baggers--especially when the House has to raise the debt ceiling in the Spring.  I've had republican friends on facebook so happy and say we need to get spending under control.  Where were they when Bush and repubs increased gov't more since Johnson?  We can spend over $1 Trillion on a war of choice in Iraq that was not paid for and they don't blink an eye.  However, provide healthcare that will save $1 Trillion and all hell breaks loose. 

How do they plan to decrease spending?  Rand Paul talked about raising the retirement age early in the election, but pulled that back.  They want to keep the Bush tax cuts in place that were never paid for.  Those tax cuts have been in place for almost a decade and obviously don't work.  They don't want to cut defense.  So, where are the cuts coming from?  They like to talk about these $1 million dollar grants to science museums and the like.  However, that is pocket change in the big picture.  If they are serious about cutting spending, then they will have to raise taxes, cut defense and Medicare---3 things even the tea-baggers seem unwilling to do. 

In exit polls, it was older folks already on Medicare or getting close to being on it who most wanted healthcare repealed.  So, they want their healthcare but don't want anyone else to have it.  How generous of them! 

Offline WillyWump

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2010, 11:13:52 PM »
Frankly all this bickering about Repubs and Dems and who's right and who's wrong is just chatter in my opinion.

I worry about my brothers and sisters in the midst of the ADAP crisis, those who have just been kicked off or who are on waiting lists. Those who have to go to bed and wonder where they are going to get their Meds and If they are going to be alive next year. I  had high hopes for "change" under Obama and a Democratic Congress...but in 2 years very little has been done to address the ADAP problem, and I'm MAD over that! The Democrats have shown that they are going to do nothing to address this Crisis and it's obvious they dont intend to do anything about it (until maybe 3 years from now)so it's time for them to go!!

Will the Repubs do anything about it? Don't know but at least history shows that they've tried...Repub Pres (2006?) appropriated emergency funds to clear ADAP waiting lists...2010- 4 Repub senators submitted the The Access ADAP Act, also known as S.3401, which would have allocated $126 million to clear the waiting lists NOW, it fell on the deaf ears of a Democratic Pres and Congress and was never even acknowledged.

I'm not ashamed to be a one-issue man. I'm not Repub or Dem, I'm for a group who will help out my brothers and sisters. If I needed only one reason to fire the Democrats that would be it. I may feel the same about the Repubs in 2 years, but time will tell.

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Offline ElZorro

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2010, 11:18:34 PM »
Frankly all this bickering about Repubs and Dems and who's right and who's wrong is just chatter in my opinion.

I worry about my brothers and sisters in the midst of the ADAP crisis, those who have just been kicked off or who are on waiting lists. Those who have to go to bed and wonder where they are going to get their Meds and If they are going to be alive next year. I  had high hopes for "change" under Obama and a Democratic Congress...but in 2 years very little has been done to address the ADAP problem, and I'm MAD over that! The Democrats have shown that they are going to do nothing to address this Crisis and it's obvious they dont intend to do anything about it (until maybe 3 years from now)so it's time for them to go!!

Will the Repubs do anything about it? Don't know but at least history shows that they've tried...Repub Pres (2006?) appropriated emergency funds to clear ADAP waiting lists...2010- 4 Repub senators submitted the The Access ADAP Act, also known as S.3401, which would have allocated $126 million to clear the waiting lists NOW, it fell on the deaf ears of a Democratic Pres and Congress and was never even acknowledged.

I'm not ashamed to be a one-issue man. I'm not Repub or Dem, I'm for a group who will help out my brothers and sisters. If I needed only one reason to fire the Democrats that would be it. I may feel the same about the Repubs in 2 years, but time will tell.

-Will

Bravo!  I say we raise the price of the cookbook and we start to fund a "Will in 2012" campaign!

Offline Snowangel

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2010, 11:27:13 PM »

As if to underscore this theme, it was revealed last week (by David Cay Johnston, a Pulitzer Prize-winning former reporter for The New York Times), that the incomes of the very highest earners in the United States, a small group of individuals hauling in more than $50 million annually (sometimes much more), increased fivefold from 2008 to 2009, even as the nation was being rocked by the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression.
I'm trying to figure out what these people could possibly be doing to earn this kind of money?  $50,000000 in one year for one person?  Isn't that like $12,000/hr, if they work 80 hours a week?

I'm with you, I don't get the Tea Party either, at all.
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Offline MitchMiller

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2010, 01:25:31 AM »
IMHO tea baggers are libertarians that just haven't been in a position where they needed to rely on gov't.  I see this as part of what we're likely to continue to see... interest groups increasingly irate about their share of the pie.  If the tea baggers make cuts that begin to drive the disabled into the streets, you will see the charge of the wheel chair brigade descend upon DC. 

The problem is that the US has been a pig at the trough for a long time.  The rest of the world has finally begun to demand their share (think China, India, Brazil, etc.)  I see no way the US can compete against the rest of the world and maintain the middle class as we have known it.  In time the pie will grow larger for all, but in the short run, it's our time to feel some pain.  Unfortunately, Americans seem to be so oblivious to their relative wealth, they continue to delude themselves that with the right tinkering, the government can make things go back to 2005.  Tea baggers are an "each man for himself" party and screw the rest of the country... real patriots!  IMHO this is the time we need just the opposite... the German strategy of spreading the pain across society to limit the number that end up in total financial ruin.

Commodity inflation will eventually make us all poorer and that's just something we better get used to... being happy with what you need, not what you want.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 01:27:40 AM by MitchMiller »

Offline Dachshund

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2010, 07:48:17 AM »
One thing you will never see is a teabagger cut up his medicaid card or surrender his benefits and enter the free market they all adore.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2010, 11:58:21 PM »
This is a great example of what to expect from the tea-baggers.  Bill Maher showed this video last Friday.  He pointed out that progressives don't act this way.  This video is a great example of how repubs/tea-baggers feel.  I had a family member who said people on unemployment for more than a couple months were just lazy.  He said they should get a job at McDonald's.  I said, "First of all, unemployment is called unemployment insurance for a reason.  It is not a hand-out.  Secondly, you would have the bread winner of a family give up benefits he/she has earned to go work at McDonald's, which would cause them to loose their house, car, and money for kids?"  They would end up on welfare--if they could get it. 

Anyway, here is the terrible video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_PX5L_v_7I&feature=related

Granny60

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2010, 12:08:40 PM »
Asshole teabagger should  quit what he is doing and go get that job a McDonalds and see how long he can maintain his wonderful lifestyle of nice home, insurance and gas hog SUV.  Prick would be crying the instant he saw his first paycheck.

Online RapidRod

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2010, 12:52:11 PM »
Asshole teabagger should  quit what he is doing and go get that job a McDonalds and see how long he can maintain his wonderful lifestyle of nice home, insurance and gas hog SUV.  Prick would be crying the instant he saw his first paycheck.
There are not enough jobs since a lot of the democratics are going to be pushing to the front of the lines at the unemployment office. Bush didn't  have anything to do with this midterm elections and there weren't enough teaparty people to pull this off. So as Obama admitted Wednesday he takes full responsibilty for the election results, which is rightly so. Let's bring up the trip to Asia, and your concerns about ADAP funding. How much money will be spent on this trip and will it be a failure like the pitch for the Olympics? Like with the elections we'll have to wait and see.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2010, 01:08:09 PM »
Let's bring up the trip to Asia, and your concerns about ADAP funding. How much money will be spent on this trip and will it be a failure like the pitch for the Olympics? Like with the elections we'll have to wait and see.

It's amazing how much of a sucker for propaganda you always are.  Reminds me of your hatchet job with Gov. Rendell's fictitious baby killing factory in Harrisburg.  Why anyone here doesn't dismiss 110% of your political posts is beyond me (oh wait, most people do!)

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201011040049

(also see related links below the clip)
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Online RapidRod

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2010, 02:04:06 PM »
It's amazing how much of a sucker for propaganda you always are.  Reminds me of your hatchet job with Gov. Rendell's fictitious baby killing factory in Harrisburg.  Why anyone here doesn't dismiss 110% of your political posts is beyond me (oh wait, most people do!)

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201011040049

(also see related links below the clip)
Don't cry Ms P because your state flipped.  :)

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2010, 03:43:02 PM »
Frankly all this bickering about Repubs and Dems and who's right and who's wrong is just chatter in my opinion.

I worry about my brothers and sisters in the midst of the ADAP crisis, those who have just been kicked off or who are on waiting lists. Those who have to go to bed and wonder where they are going to get their Meds and If they are going to be alive next year. I  had high hopes for "change" under Obama and a Democratic Congress...but in 2 years very little has been done to address the ADAP problem, and I'm MAD over that! The Democrats have shown that they are going to do nothing to address this Crisis and it's obvious they dont intend to do anything about it (until maybe 3 years from now)so it's time for them to go!!

Will the Repubs do anything about it? Don't know but at least history shows that they've tried...Repub Pres (2006?) appropriated emergency funds to clear ADAP waiting lists...2010- 4 Repub senators submitted the The Access ADAP Act, also known as S.3401, which would have allocated $126 million to clear the waiting lists NOW, it fell on the deaf ears of a Democratic Pres and Congress and was never even acknowledged.

I'm not ashamed to be a one-issue man. I'm not Repub or Dem, I'm for a group who will help out my brothers and sisters. If I needed only one reason to fire the Democrats that would be it. I may feel the same about the Repubs in 2 years, but time will tell.

-Will

I fear I don't believe you are without political motives.  Because, you see, if you really look at the last two years without blinders what happened in reality is this:

1) In 2009 the Ryan White care act was reauthorized.  It passed the Senate unanimously, but in the House there were 9 votes against it.  Surprising no-one (else) all 9 nay votes were by Republicans.  In fact, 4 of those Republicans were from Texas. 

2) This Senate maneuver looks suspiciously like show-boating.  The bill introduced by Burns has only 5 Senators signed on to it -- all Republicans and none in the leadership; there is no corresponding bill in the House.  If a Senator really wants to make a change in the law they go for co-sponsors; and it is really quite peculiar that Burns didn't get his fellow NC senator (who is also on the HELP committee) as a co-sponsor from the other party.  It indicates a certain lack of commitment to the bill.

3) You make no mention of the letter in the House, signed by 75 Democrats and 1 (and only one) Republican which was sent to the Administration and actually got them to free up $20 million in additional monies.

4) And you seem to ignore the fact that federal funding went up for ADAP this year , even before the extra $20 million, while state funding declined on average by a third.  NASTAD (which is a collection of state employees), tries its best to disguise this fact in its published reports, pointing out that the federal dollars did not go up enough (true -- but they were 35% or more in the right direction than the States) and suggesting that the States reduced funding due to budget problems with Medicaid.  But who stood in the way of additional stimulus money for State Medicaid?... well, that would be Senate Republicans...

5) Finally, since this is driven by State choices about where to reduce funding, perhaps it would make sense to look at the States that have implemented waiting lists and look at which party controls that State.  Something tells me the answer is likely to swing pretty red there also, although a careful analysis would need to look at both the governor and legislature control. 

Frankly, the Administration can and should do more to push support for ADAP through Congress.  But the indirect efforts they have taken to date to relieve pressure on State budgets have been frustrated by Senate Republicans.  To argue that this fig leaf of a bill in the Senate, supported by almost none of the Republicans and not actively pushed by its sponsors somehow gives Republicans a free pass is either naive or disingenuous.
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2010, 04:26:19 PM »
Don't cry Ms P because your state flipped.  :)

Is that the best you can do after another of your factually challenged assertions?  Typical trolling, and pathetic.

ps: hats off to Assurbanipal, including many points I've tried repeatedly to make about the current ADAP crisis the past four or so months none of which seems to gain much traction, or is fo only for five minutes.  Fortunately his post there was more succinct than what I've attempted.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 04:31:28 PM by Miss Philicia »
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Online RapidRod

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2010, 06:40:17 PM »
Is that the best you can do after another of your factually challenged assertions? Typical trolling, and pathetic.

ps: hats off to Assurbanipal, including many points I've tried repeatedly to make about the current ADAP crisis the past four or so months none of which seems to gain much traction, or is fo only for five minutes.  Fortunately his post there was more succinct than what I've attempted.
Is it not a fact Ms P that Pennsylvania flipped to Republican?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/photos-and-video/video/2010/11/03/presidential-press-conference
Pay particular attention to the question answer section of Obama'a White House Press Conference.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2010, 06:42:49 PM »
***blathertrolling***

Please retract your transparently partisan right wing hack assertion made at 12:52:11 PM

Wall Street Journal

Fuzzy Math Dogs Obama’s Asia Trip

By Jonathan Weisman

As if Tuesday’s shellacking wasn’t enough, President Barack Obama is getting pilloried by the right on the cost of his 10-day trip to Asia, with outlandish hyperventilation going directly from suspect Indian media reports to conservative U.S. media outlets and commentators without a pause for fact-checking.

First, the Press Trust of India reported that Mr. Obama’s entourage would be spending $200 million a day for two days in India, a claim that was quickly repeated last night by Rep. Michele Bachmann (R., Minn.) on CNN. White House spokesman Tommy Vietor said, “The numbers reported in this article have no basis in reality,” and are “wildly inflated,” but “due to security concerns,” he would not offer an alternative price tag.

Snopes.com, a website devoted to myth busting, noted that even if the Indian press has correctly reported the size of the president’s entourage – 3,000 – the cost would work out to $66,000 per person per day, “a figure that stretches credulity to the breaking point.” Factcheck.org noted that the entire war in Afghanistan costs $190 million a day.

But the report is demonstrably incorrect. It says the White House had blocked off the entire Taj Mahal Hotel in Mumbai – it hasn’t – and that the press traveling with Mr. Obama will be staying there. We won’t. Besides, the press pays its own way at considerable cost to the media outlets, not the U.S. taxpayer.

Now a new rumor has emerged courtesy of India’s NDTV. Mr. Obama, the outlet says, “will be protected by a fleet of 34 warships, including an aircraft carrier, which will patrol the sea lanes off the Mumbai coast.” The White House called that ridiculous. But on the conservative Drudge Report website, it’s on the home page – in huge type.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 06:44:56 PM by Miss Philicia »
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline mecch

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2010, 07:06:16 PM »
And he and his 1000 number entourage will be transported on diamond bedazzled elephants, thousands of kilometers across highways strewn with rose petals, all paid for by the White House.  They are all staying in luxury suites in the best Indian palaces.  blah blah blah blah
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 07:13:06 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Online RapidRod

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2010, 07:15:31 PM »
Please retract your transparently partisan right wing hack assertion made at 12:52:11 PM

Wall Street Journal

Fuzzy Math Dogs Obama’s Asia Trip

By Jonathan Weisman

As if Tuesday’s shellacking wasn’t enough, President Barack Obama is getting pilloried by the right on the cost of his 10-day trip to Asia, with outlandish hyperventilation going directly from suspect Indian media reports to conservative U.S. media outlets and commentators without a pause for fact-checking.

First, the Press Trust of India reported that Mr. Obama’s entourage would be spending $200 million a day for two days in India, a claim that was quickly repeated last night by Rep. Michele Bachmann (R., Minn.) on CNN. White House spokesman Tommy Vietor said, “The numbers reported in this article have no basis in reality,” and are “wildly inflated,” but “due to security concerns,” he would not offer an alternative price tag.

Snopes.com, a website devoted to myth busting, noted that even if the Indian press has correctly reported the size of the president’s entourage – 3,000 – the cost would work out to $66,000 per person per day, “a figure that stretches credulity to the breaking point.” Factcheck.org noted that the entire war in Afghanistan costs $190 million a day.

But the report is demonstrably incorrect. It says the White House had blocked off the entire Taj Mahal Hotel in Mumbai – it hasn’t – and that the press traveling with Mr. Obama will be staying there. We won’t. Besides, the press pays its own way at considerable cost to the media outlets, not the U.S. taxpayer.

Now a new rumor has emerged courtesy of India’s NDTV. Mr. Obama, the outlet says, “will be protected by a fleet of 34 warships, including an aircraft carrier, which will patrol the sea lanes off the Mumbai coast.” The White House called that ridiculous. But on the conservative Drudge Report website, it’s on the home page – in huge type.

Did Penn. flip or not?. Did I say how much the trip cost? No, I said we will have to wait and see.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2010, 07:28:28 PM »
Still moving the goal posts I see and trying to make your faulty, erroneous statement about someone (or something) else.  A simple reading by anyone here can see what you're doing (and attempt to do all of the time).
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Online RapidRod

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2010, 07:41:01 PM »
Still moving the goal posts I see and trying to make your faulty, erroneous statement about someone (or something) else.  A simple reading by anyone here can see what you're doing (and attempt to do all of the time).
I do believe Ms P you have got it all backwards. Enjoy your stay in your newly Republican state.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2010, 07:49:57 PM »
Roddles, you either have a very low IQ, dementia or you sniff glue all day. First you made a comment that we can't afford to fully fund ADAP because Obama is making a trip to India.  I point out that this is erroneous information being sent out in a concerted manner by right wing blowhards like Beck, Limbaugh, etc which, as usual, you lap up without any sort of independent analysis (complete with factual links), then you try and move the goal posts with a comment about the election results in the state I live in, something that has no bearing at all on what's being discussed.

In short, you're a troll.  And not a particularly compelling or savvy one at that. I'm going with "sniffs glue" if it's any consolation.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Online RapidRod

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2010, 07:55:35 PM »
Roddles, you either have a very low IQ, dementia or you sniff glue all day. First you made a comment that we can't afford to fully fund ADAP because Obama is making a trip to India.  I point out that this is erroneous information being sent out in a concerted manner by right wing blowhards like Beck, Limbaugh, etc which, as usual, you lap up without any sort of independent analysis (complete with factual links), then you try and move the goal posts with a comment about the election results in the state I live in, something that has no bearing at all on what's being discussed.

In short, you're a troll.  And not a particularly compelling or savvy one at that. I'm going with "sniffs glue" if it's any consolation.
I'll forgive you Ms P.  :)

Offline WillyWump

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2010, 08:24:23 PM »
I fear I don't believe you are without political motives.  Because, you see, if you really look at the last two years without blinders what happened in reality is this:


Political Motives? Frankly I could care less about who was in power for the last 2 years whether it be Obama, Bush or Mother Theresa...the Fact is that ADAP is still in crisis, and ultimately the responsibility lies at the feet of the current Congress and current President. Period.

BTW, I voted for Bush, AND I voted for Obama.

You can lay out as many points as you wish however it doesnt change the fact that there are still upwards of 3000 people on ADAP waiting lists, and the fact remains that under the Democratic Congress very little would change. Did I absolutey state unequivocally that the Repubs would take care of this? No I did not. Re read my post.

Sure the Dems got some money freed up for ADAP, but If you recognize that $25million is necessary to provide a quality of life and access to drugs for "some" people why the hell wouldn't you do the full $126million and take care of everybody on the list? This is the crap that pisses me off.  Oh and this wonderful "Test and Treat" initiative, it should be called "Test and put you on the back burner cause we will not fund ADAP and we cannot even get the current people waiting on Meds" While I applaud the T&T initiative, I laugh because there are no means to "treat" the people. Do they think we are stupid? Apparently so.

-Will
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2010, 08:27:48 PM »
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline WillyWump

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Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
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Offline Joe K

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2010, 11:55:59 PM »
If you want to solve the ADAP crisis, you must look to each state and their contributions to the program. The reason there are waiting lists, is NOT because of Congress or the president, it is because of states that cut their funding. If all state funding for ADAP had remained stable over the past few years, there would be no waiting lists. Check the facts and you will find that states like Florida, have purposely reduced their formulary, while changing eligibility so they provide fewer drugs to fewer patients. This has nothing to do with Washington, but everything to do with local state government. If you really want change, you need to understand what the problem is and exactly who can fix it.
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Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #48 on: November 06, 2010, 01:23:01 AM »
BTW, I voted for Bush, AND I voted for Obama.

-Will

Yeah I'm guessing you did the Bush thing back in 2000.

You see people, this is why we can't have nice things. ::)

MtD

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #49 on: November 06, 2010, 02:05:28 AM »
Yeah I'm guessing you did the Bush thing back in 2000.

You see people, this is why we can't have nice things. ::)

MtD

Well surely no one was stupid enough to vote for him twice, right?

Offline MitchMiller

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #50 on: November 06, 2010, 02:25:20 AM »
Concerning ADAP I just wonder how well managed those programs are.  Has anyone ever seen a price list that states the cost to ADAP for medications?  I just suspect they are overpaying for generics like epivir.  I pay less than 50 cents per 150mg tablet, which is the full retail price.  It's FDA approved for PEPFAR.  That makes my monthly cost less than $30.   I would hope ADAP pays no more than I do.




Online RapidRod

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #51 on: November 06, 2010, 04:12:47 AM »
Yeah I'm guessing you did the Bush thing back in 2000.

You see people, this is why we can't have nice things. ::)

MtD
As if you live in the U.S..

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #52 on: November 06, 2010, 05:29:04 AM »
As if you live in the U.S..

Now Rodney don't be like that! :(

I often think about those who have died in the services of your nation. Purchasing their own kevlar vests and assorted protective gear whilst farmers collect corn ethanol credits at Uncle Sam's expense.

Must be a terrible burden for their families, don't ya think?

MtD

Online RapidRod

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #53 on: November 06, 2010, 06:03:32 AM »
Now Rodney don't be like that! :(

I often think about those who have died in the services of your nation. Purchasing their own kevlar vests and assorted protective gear whilst farmers collect corn ethanol credits at Uncle Sam's expense.

Must be a terrible burden for their families, don't ya think?

MtD
Farmers? How about Ethanol producers those are the ones that get the tax credits along with auto manufactures that make and sell renewable/flex fuel using vehicles..

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2010, 06:12:35 AM »
Farmers? How about Ethanol producers those are the ones that get the tax credits along with auto manufactures that make and sell renewable/flex fuel using vehicles..

Absolutely Rodney! They are such fucking parasites. >:(

Not like you, of course. Every cent that you earn is made from the sweat of your own brow. Not a single penny of taxpayer money goes into your pocket.

Frankly, you're an example to the rest of us. Out there labouring under a harsh Ohio sun earning your fucking keep.

I have no doubt that should a guvmint welfare type turn up at the door of your elegantly appointed trailer offering cheap cheques and Demmykrat flavoured ADAP, you send him off with a load of bird shot in his keister!

Truly you're an inspiration! You are the Christine O'Donnell Rand Paul of these forums.

MtD

Online RapidRod

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #55 on: November 06, 2010, 06:22:38 AM »
Absolutely Rodney! They are such fucking parasites. >:(

Not like you, of course. Every cent that you earn is made from the sweat of your own brow. Not a single penny of taxpayer money goes into your pocket.

Frankly, you're an example to the rest of us. Out there labouring under a harsh Ohio sun earning your fucking keep.

I have no doubt that should a guvmint welfare type turn up at the door of your elegantly appointed trailer offering cheap cheques and Demmykrat flavoured ADAP, you send him off with a load of bird shot in his keister!

Truly you're an inspiration! You are the Christine O'Donnell Rand Paul of these forums.

MtD
[/q]You want to knock the US Matty and the EU is in just as bad or worse shape. Matty the day that you pay for the keep of anyone in the US you let us know. Right now you don't know shit.  :)

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #56 on: November 06, 2010, 06:33:30 AM »
Rodney if you can find a single post where I have knocked the United States of a Miracle, I'll eat your hat.

Provided that hat is privately funded. The thought of an Obammy flavoured socialist hat passing my lips, well that just makes me wanna puke up my squirrel melt.

You're right about them EU types, all subsidies and state hand outs and able to work the quote function of a forum. They just make me sick. Fortunately in Australia we don't put up with that sort of crap.

Nor do we answer specific questions when they are put to us. No siree bob. We just pull our heads in our shells and pretend that facts and data and shit don't matter one little bit.

In that way, you'd make a great Australian. :)

MtD

Online RapidRod

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #57 on: November 06, 2010, 06:46:55 AM »
Rodney if you can find a single post where I have knocked the United States of a Miracle, I'll eat your hat.

Provided that hat is privately funded. The thought of an Obammy flavoured socialist hat passing my lips, well that just makes me wanna puke up my squirrel melt.

You're right about them EU types, all subsidies and state hand outs and able to work the quote function of a forum. They just make me sick. Fortunately in Australia we don't put up with that sort of crap.

Nor do we answer specific questions when they are put to us. No siree bob. We just pull our heads in our shells and pretend that facts and data and shit don't matter one little bit.

In that way, you'd make a great Australian. :)

MtD
Why thank you Matty but I like it here thanks..  :)

Offline komnaes

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #58 on: November 06, 2010, 07:03:03 AM »
Consider the Aussies have given us Murdoch and in return the US has given us Beck and Palin I think you guys should call it even.

Meanwhile while we're living under the shadow of a socialist-commie-dictatorship that is Chinaland, which ironically is as close to a capitalist dystopia as you guys can and will ever get san human rights and democracy that will soon own the Western economy as we know it and buy up all Aussieland natural resources, perhaps the teabaggers have got it right!

Come join the new pan-China era!  ;D
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Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #59 on: November 06, 2010, 07:05:42 AM »
Why thank you Matty but I like it here thanks..  :)

And why wouldn't you like it?

If I had it like you I wouldn't want to leave the Buckeye State neither. All care and no responsibility from what I can tell.

But, being Mid Western you're entitled to lecture all them rich Democrat voting states who pay for your lifestyle. That's some good shit, eh? :)

But it is heartening to know that y'all are about to provide the next Speaker of the House! I've got no doubt he'll be a ripper. Terribly orange though, don't ya think? His wife must have a hell of a time cleaning the bronzer ring out of the tub.

You never know Rodney, if the triticale crop fails you might be able to score some honest work scrubbing Brother Boehner's bath. ;)

MtD

Offline J.R.E.

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #60 on: November 06, 2010, 07:14:56 AM »



Another thread that will probably be locked down soon...
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of DEC 9th, 2013,  t-cells are at 437 Viral load  <40 .

 Current % is at 16% (L)

  
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Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #61 on: November 06, 2010, 07:31:35 AM »


Another thread that will probably be locked down soon...

Really Ray? Which one? I'm betting it's that shitty porn thread. It's been going for years with no regard for decency.

Or maybe the horse thread. I can see some cross over between the horse thread and the porn thread.

Horses always make me think of porn. I knew a horse that was totally into porn. Well not porn, he (and what a he!) was into french new wave cinema which is pretty much like porn except less boring.

The horse was ok, but he knew this mule who was a total slob. Wrecked three DVD players with oats.

It was quite a thing. Maybe Rod can get us cheap oats. :)

MtD

Granny60

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #62 on: November 06, 2010, 11:08:26 AM »
Well surely no one was stupid enough to vote for him twice, right? Bush)

It is hard for me to imagine why anyone would have voted for him the first time.  Gore did win the popular vote by the way.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #63 on: November 06, 2010, 01:43:36 PM »
"As I said on Stewart, because we own all of the people who are running for president, we're going to turn it into a 13-week series, like Dancing with the Stars or something,"

"The Republican primaries will be a production of Fox News,"

-- Chris Wallace, Fox News
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Denver Toad

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #64 on: November 06, 2010, 02:28:36 PM »
Personal opinion only but I think it's going to be an interesting couple of years. If you find a whole lot of partisan sniping and a lot of posturing without actually doing anything interesting.
The current wave of new faces in DC got swept in by, anecdotally, a whole bunch of people that "never got involved in politics before" in the Tea Party movement. They send these fresh new faces to DC to stand up to politics as usual, and bring real change (not Obama change that's really not change) to our country.
If they don't deliver, it will truly get interesting, IMHO. Especially since it sounds an awful lot like the same kind of fervor that swept in the Dems in 2008. Two years later and a perception of "business as usual" from the party in power led to a pretty broad sweep in the other direction, not unusual for a mid-term but unusual for it's boisterousness and scope. But what happens next? Hmm, crystal ball warmed up, lets take a look.
One of the first things the new majority in the House will have to do is vote to raise the debt ceiling in February. Voting to increase the debt isn't the promise they made.
The next thing on the agenda is trying to balance the budget, but aside from Ryan in WI the party line is do it without touching entitlements or defense. Since SS, Medicaid, and the Pentagon make up over 50% of our budget, the current agenda to balance the budget amounts to cutting spending not the 40% figure bandied about, but nearly 90%. That's right, if "discretionary spending" is 1.4 trillion dollars this year, and the deficit is nearly 1.2 trillion dollars, then it's a going out of business sale. Everything Must Go!
Eliminating the NEA isn't going to do it. Eliminating the Department of Education isn't going to do it. Pushing everything back down to the states isn't going to help much either, because a lot of states are broke right now.
So that leaves the three big pieces of the pie. In PA over 25% of ballots cast in this midterm were cast by folks over 65 years of age. Currently only 13% of the population of the US is over 65, so retired folks vote at a rate far higher than the general population.
In ten years, another wave of Boomers will reach the retirement age, and the percentage of folks over age of 65 will climb to over 16%. If the math holds, that translates into nearly 1/3 of "likely voters" being age 65 or older.
Who wants to be first to step right up and mandate cuts to entitlements? Means testing for SS? Benefits cuts to Medicare? Eliminating Part D?
Nope, didn't think so. Ryan, from WI, has such a proposal, interesting that no one in his own party is willing to touch it with a ten foot pole.
Who wants to tell the current crop of Fifty-somethings they have to wait until 72 to retire? Or their bennies are reduced? Who wants to get voted off the island?
If you aren't willing to reduce outlays, then you have to increase revenue. That means raising taxes. Hell, Congress doesn't even have the stomach to let a temporary tax cut expire at it's scheduled time, let alone actually raise taxes.
Instead, I think the Repubs will pursue a strategy of hounding the President and focus their efforts on getting him voted out in '12, as McConnell stated the other day. The risk of that tactic is the real possibility of alienating the very folks that just swept you back into office. Reagen and Clinton come to mind - both suffered pretty big mid-term losses in their first term. So does Truman - '46 was a clobbering, '48 was a sweep back the other way. I couldn't begin to predict if either of those models holds, or if the Repubs take both the Senate and the White House in '12.
I can say, though that if according to Madison gridlock is a worthy and desirable outcome, he would be proud of our current situation.
Life is short, Break the rules, Forgive quickly,
Kiss slowly, Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably, And never regret anything that made you smile.

Granny60

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #65 on: November 06, 2010, 05:49:22 PM »
Quote from: WillyWump

BTW, I voted for Bush-Will
[/quote

I don't even think a priest could get me to confess if I had committed such a grave error of judgment.   Maybe it was a Brain Fog moment before meds?  Are you too young to remember when his do nothing daddy was president  or how his running of the oil companies and ball team went? Here is a refresher course.
 http://alaric3rh.home.sprynet.com/science/bceo.html

 Can't seem to get this thing to do quote boxes without being backwards tonight. Gr.


 
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 05:53:25 PM by Granny60 »

Granny60

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #66 on: November 06, 2010, 06:02:22 PM »
Really Ray? Which one? I'm betting it's that shitty porn thread. It's been going for years with no regard for decency.

Or maybe the horse thread. I can see some cross over between the horse thread and the porn thread.

Horses always make me think of porn. I knew a horse that was totally into porn. Well not porn, he (and what a he!) was into french new wave cinema which is pretty much like porn except less boring.

The horse was ok, but he knew this mule who was a total slob. Wrecked three DVD players with oats.

It was quite a thing. Maybe Rod can get us cheap oats. :)

MtD

Never knew a horse that was into porn,  but did a goat.  Damned goat used to give himself his own blowjobs. Guy that owned him took him to a grade school one time for a petting zoo like deal and the crazy goat decided to give it a round right in front of everybody! :o  Oh, and in keeping  with the O.P. ,  the goat owner votes republican as well as his daddy.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 08:01:15 PM by Granny60 »

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #67 on: November 06, 2010, 07:02:39 PM »
Political Motives? Frankly I could care less about who was in power for the last 2 years whether it be Obama, Bush or Mother Theresa...the Fact is that ADAP is still in crisis, and ultimately the responsibility lies at the feet of the current Congress and current President. Period.

Let me try this again.  Federal funding for ADAP went up.  State funding dropped on average 34%.
Obama and the Democrats attempted to provide more money to State budgets -- Senate Republicans stopped it.

BTW, I voted for Bush, AND I voted for Obama.

No need to fess up.  People could sorta... tell.

Did I absolutey state unequivocally that the Repubs would take care of this? No I did not. Re read my post.

No, but you clearly insinuated as much -- here's what you actually said
[/quote]
Will the Repubs do anything about it? Don't know but at least history shows that they've tried...
...
..2010- 4 Repub senators submitted the The Access ADAP Act, also known as S.3401, which would have allocated $126 million to clear the waiting lists NOW, it fell on the deaf ears of a Democratic Pres and Congress and was never even acknowledged.
[/quote]
That statement was factually inaccurate, in ignoring the House efforts, and gave credit for pushing a bill when they clearly have made next to no efforts to actually turn it into legislation.


This is the crap that pisses me off.  Oh and this wonderful "Test and Treat" initiative, it should be called "Test and put you on the back burner cause we will not fund ADAP and we cannot even get the current people waiting on Meds" While I applaud the T&T initiative, I laugh because there are no means to "treat" the people. Do they think we are stupid? Apparently so.

Stupid person? I don't think so. 

But I do think the above is a pretty stupid statement. 

What is wrong with it?  It is all emotion and ignores a lot of actual facts on the ground
1) It assumes that the only access to treatment is through ADAP -- most people get treated through insurance.  ADAP covers only about a third of people on treatment.
2) Even for those who would go on treatment and run up against a waiting list there are other options for treatment through foundations and other grants
3) There is a benefit for those who do not yet need treatment in knowing they are infected.  A lot of studies show that once people know, they almost always take much better steps to prevent infection of their partners.
4) It assumes that there would be no response to an increase in the number on the waiting lists.
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #68 on: November 06, 2010, 07:20:57 PM »
Personal opinion only but I think it's going to be an interesting couple of years. If you find a whole lot of partisan sniping and a lot of posturing without actually doing anything interesting.
...
The next thing on the agenda is trying to balance the budget, but aside from Ryan in WI the party line is do it without touching entitlements or defense. Since SS, Medicaid, and the Pentagon make up over 50% of our budget, the current agenda to balance the budget amounts to cutting spending not the 40% figure bandied about, but nearly 90%. That's right, if "discretionary spending" is 1.4 trillion dollars this year, and the deficit is nearly 1.2 trillion dollars, then it's a going out of business sale. Everything Must Go!
...
If you aren't willing to reduce outlays, then you have to increase revenue. That means raising taxes. Hell, Congress doesn't even have the stomach to let a temporary tax cut expire at it's scheduled time, let alone actually raise taxes.
Instead, I think the Repubs will pursue a strategy of hounding the President and focus their efforts on getting him voted out in '12, as McConnell stated the other day. The risk of that tactic is the real possibility of alienating the very folks that just swept you back into office. Reagen and Clinton come to mind - both suffered pretty big mid-term losses in their first term. So does Truman - '46 was a clobbering, '48 was a sweep back the other way. I couldn't begin to predict if either of those models holds, or if the Repubs take both the Senate and the White House in '12.
I can say, though that if according to Madison gridlock is a worthy and desirable outcome, he would be proud of our current situation.


Hey Mr. Toad
I think you are right it will be an interesting two years.  But I question the analysis of the size of the deficit and the proposed fixes.

First on the deficit -- taxes were unnaturally depressed by the recession and the stock market collapse.  They will rise naturally as we come out of recession and particularly as the stock market comes back.  The US federal tax system is now much more dependent on upper income taxpayers than it was 20 years ago, and they tend to report a very large proportion of income from capital gains.  So, taxes will go up from recent lows even without a rate increase.  They won't go up enough to wipe out the deficit, but we aren't looking at a long term $1.2 trillion deficit per year.

Second -- Actually, aging of the population is a problem, but the strains put on the budget by Social Security are not the main problem.  (Social Security retirement age is already scheduled to go up to 67 -- while there is some fiscal problem left, it is actually pretty minor)  The real long term deficit crisis is due to the projected costs of Medicare and Medicaid.  That's why health care reform was both critically important and only a first step.  

If you want a center right perspecitve on the long term US fiscal issues you might check out The Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget.  For the center left -- Paul Krugman and Peter Orszag have columns in the online NYTimes.




edit -- oops "without" not "with"
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 07:22:36 PM by Assurbanipal »
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #69 on: November 06, 2010, 08:36:44 PM »
This should be lots o' fun to see how it effects HIV'ers in the Lone Star State!

NY Times: Texas Considers Medicaid Withdrawal
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline WillyWump

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #70 on: November 06, 2010, 08:42:15 PM »
If you want to solve the ADAP crisis, you must look to each state and their contributions to the program. The reason there are waiting lists, is NOT because of Congress or the president, it is because of states that cut their funding.

I'm certain everyone uderstands how ADAP is funded, and I agree that Congress nor the President did not "Create" waiting lists. My contention is that Congress can bailout the ADAP programs in the states that are in trouble, just as they can bailout state education systems and medicaid, etc... It is in their power to do so, they are not prohibited from acting on this. They have just failed to do so, at least fully.

The ADAP crisis is a Public Health Emergency, and as such the Federal Government has a duty to act to help the states. I am not calling for a complete long term takeover of States ADAP programs by the Feds, I am simply saying we need emergency funding Now and continuing until the crisis abates either due to Obamacare of as the result of state budgets improving.

If the feds can give $25 million to help out ADAP they can damn well give $126 million or whatever the cost may be to fully clear the lists.

It seems as though you might be inferring that the Feds cannot do anything about this crisis.

From NASTAD:

The program’s viability depends on federal funding awards and state general revenue support for the state’s fiscal year (in most states this began on July 1, 2010). With growing client demand for ADAP services, minimal federal increases and continued cuts in state funding, it is paramount that emergency federal resources be made available to stave off the crisis many ADAPs and the clients they serve are facing. ADAPs nationally experienced unprecedented client growth from FY2008 to 2009 with an average monthly growth of 1,271 clients (an increase of 80 percent from FY2008 when the average monthly growth was 706 clients over FY2007).


-Will
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 08:54:04 PM by WillyWump »
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%
8/9/12, CD4 not taken, UD.
2/13/12, CD4- 904, UD 42%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline WillyWump

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #71 on: November 06, 2010, 09:18:32 PM »
Let me try this again.  Federal funding for ADAP went up.  State funding dropped on average 34%.
Obama and the Democrats attempted to provide more money to State budgets -- Senate Republicans stopped it.


Please explain how the administration was able to come up with $26 million to clear the lists in a couple states.

No, but you clearly insinuated as much -- here's what you actually said

Will the Repubs do anything about it? Don't know but at least history shows that they've tried.....


Beautiful sound bite, however you forgot to include this...."I may feel the same about the Repubs in 2 years, but time will tell"

But I do think the above is a pretty stupid statement.  

What is wrong with it?  It is all emotion and ignores a lot of actual facts on the ground
1) It assumes that the only access to treatment is through ADAP -- most people get treated through insurance.  ADAP covers only about a third of people on treatment.

Of course not everyone with HIV is on ADAP. I never said otherwise. I assumed the reader would know this without stating the obvious. However I submit that even ONE person on a waiting list is too many.


2) Even for those who would go on treatment and run up against a waiting list there are other options for treatment through foundations and other grants

Agreed, but please provide some supporting information that everyone on waiting lists is being covered through these means.

3) There is a benefit for those who do not yet need treatment in knowing they are infected.  A lot of studies show that once people know, they almost always take much better steps to prevent infection of their partners.

Absolutely agreed! Show me where I said this was not true, I applaud the initiative wholeheartedly, my concern is that they did not provide a mechanism to get people Meds immediately if need be. However I'll go further and propose that perhaps the inverse of that statement is true...Is there a potential that someone diagnosed under T&T with a cd4 of 25 and a VL in the millions is then placed on a waiting list , but under the pressure of it all just "gives up" and goes off the radar and throws in the towel?

-will



« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 09:28:51 PM by WillyWump »
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%
8/9/12, CD4 not taken, UD.
2/13/12, CD4- 904, UD 42%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Granny60

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #72 on: November 06, 2010, 09:38:50 PM »
ADAPs nationally experienced unprecedented client growth from FY2008 to 2009 with an average monthly growth of 1,271 clients (an increase of 80 percent from FY2008 when the average monthly growth was 706 clients over FY2007).


-Will

If the Republicans are going to insist on the perverted rightwing anti sex education anti condom crap they insisted on during the sorryfull Bush years, they can expect the long term trend of increasing cases to continue to grow.  Even the brain dead can figure out something as simple as that. Best chance a person will have to get increased funding in that case is if every congressman, senator and priest's daughters get HIV. Hate to say such a thing,  but unless it hits home, it is not a priority.  That is the part of the reason why they have all the criminal prosecution laws against HIVer's now.  they don't want their own family slut infected, so they legislate against it,  but I guarantee,  if their wife and daughter and dad and Mom had HIV, they would do anything  to help them.

Online RapidRod

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #73 on: November 06, 2010, 09:49:05 PM »
If the Republicans are going to insist on the perverted rightwing anti sex education anti condom crap they insisted on during the sorryfull Bush years, they can expect the long term trend of increasing cases to continue to grow.  Even the brain dead can figure out something as simple as that. Best chance a person will have to get increased funding in that case is if every congressman, senator and priest's daughters get HIV. Hate to say such a thing,  but unless it hits home, it is not a priority.  That is the part of the reason why they have all the criminal prosecution laws against HIVer's now.  they don't want their own family slut infected, so they legislate against it,  but I guarantee,  if their wife and daughter and dad and Mom had HIV, they would do anything  to help them.
Oh right. It isn't the lack of education it's because people don't think and don't care.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #74 on: November 06, 2010, 09:54:50 PM »
Abstinence Only, Folks!  Let's have some personal responsibility™ eh Roddie?
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline WillyWump

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #75 on: November 06, 2010, 10:02:29 PM »
What's needed is the EDUCATION of both State and Federal political leaders on the situation both Repub and Dems, and to a large extent the public in general. I bet that if you went up to 100 congressioanl members and asked them how many people were on ADAP waiting lists that perhaps maybe 10 would know what ADAP even was.

I believe that if the Political leaders of the US knew what was going on with the ADAP crisis we would have a better chance of getting it rectified. If not by compassion alone, then by a purely budgetary and common sense approach. ie. It is cheaper to fund ADAP fully and provide everyone who needs it life saving meds, than to treat them in the Emergency rooms over and over due to not having the virus udner control. Put money on the front end instead of the backend. If Obama would make one speech about the situation this would go far in shedding the light on the shadowy ADAP crisis. \

-Will
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%
8/9/12, CD4 not taken, UD.
2/13/12, CD4- 904, UD 42%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline ElZorro

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #76 on: November 06, 2010, 10:07:22 PM »
What's needed is the EDUCATION of both State and Federal political leaders on the situation both Repub and Dems, and to a large extent the public in general. I bet that if you went up to 100 congressioanl members and asked them how many people were on ADAP waiting lists that perhaps maybe 10 would know what ADAP even was.

I believe that if the Political leaders of the US knew what was going on with the ADAP crisis we would have a better chance of getting it rectified. If not by compassion alone, then by a purely budgetary and common sense approach. ie. It is cheaper to fund ADAP fully and provide everyone who needs it life saving meds, than to treat them in the Emergency rooms over and over due to not having the virus udner control. Put money on the front end instead of the backend. If Obama would make one speech about the situation this would go far in shedding the light on the shadowy ADAP crisis. \

-Will

It would be great if someone would do an expose on this situation as well as the progress that has been made in HIV/AIDS research and treatment so that the public at large could be made aware of how things have changed and, perhaps, also address the social stigma that is still associated with the virus. Perhaps someone needs to shoot Michael Moore an email. Might be right up his alley.  ;)

Granny60

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #77 on: November 06, 2010, 10:13:59 PM »
Oh right. It isn't the lack of education it's because people don't think and don't care.

Education is a repetitive thought process.  Remember all the years of math and  language arts classes?????  Very few people  are savants or have photographic memories.  If you never tell your kids about HIV,  or drugs,  driving without a seat belt, or knocking up their first date many are going to suffer regrettable  consequences. You can't tell me that there is no such thing as unintended pregnancies  where the participants were playing by ear because nobody told them about sex. Please get in touch with the REAL world.  I happen to know several people that learned about sex on their own by trial and error. The error side was a surprise for some of them.  Some families do not talk about those things... ever.  some churches and and many political entities  chose the same... as a matter of fact demand that it not be brought out in the open.  ??? ::)

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #78 on: November 06, 2010, 10:23:33 PM »
What's needed is the EDUCATION of both State and Federal political leaders on the situation both Repub and Dems, and to a large extent the public in general. I bet that if you went up to 100 congressioanl members and asked them how many people were on ADAP waiting lists that perhaps maybe 10 would know what ADAP even was.

What the fuck to you think has been going on for the past twenty years before you got butt flu?  Activists just sitting around drinking shots of tequila?  One of my best friends here in Philly goes down to DC once a year as part of the Ryan White Planning Council and meets with congressmen and/or staff, and it's all done in coordination with activists from all over the country.

Hey, guess what Texas Pete -- now that the Rethuglicans are in charge and seeing as how 98% of them come from your state, why don't you go camp out at their local offices and wave some signs?  Us Blue Staters don't have any pull right now with the incoming House leadership, so it's up to you other girls to pull your weight in Texas, Florida, etc.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Granny60

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #79 on: November 06, 2010, 10:25:17 PM »

 It is cheaper to fund ADAP fully and provide everyone who needs it life saving meds, than to treat them in the Emergency rooms over and over due to not having the virus under control.

-Will

You sir, are correct!

That is the whole basis which is supposed to make the healthcare plan that passed  that the teabaggers and republicans both have now stated they want to repeal,  work.  Lost productivity, more expensive emergency care, and more expensive critical care vs. low cost preventative care measures.   I swear, those  who oppose are too narrow minded to even do a simple spread sheet and look at the projections.  Many of technologically  advanced countries in the world that have taken our jobs have national healthcare and still compete. We are the last one to get with the program.

Offline WillyWump

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #80 on: November 06, 2010, 10:34:41 PM »
What the fuck to you think has been going on for the past twenty years before you got butt flu?  Activists just sitting around drinking shots of tequila?  One of my best friends here in Philly goes down to DC once a year as part of the Ryan White Planning Council and meets with congressmen and/or staff, and it's all done in coordination with activists from all over the country.


No I absolutely believe that activists over the past 20 years can be credited for single handedly getting us to where we are today. Im submitting that there STILL needs to be more education. There needs to be more peope like your friend. Agreed that I and everyone here including yourself can and should be trying to make a difference in what ever way possible, I have written letters (which is nothing) to Hutchinson and Cornyn and Obama concerning the ADAP crisis. I embrace the fact that I need to be doing more. We all need too.

-Will
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 10:50:11 PM by WillyWump »
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%
8/9/12, CD4 not taken, UD.
2/13/12, CD4- 904, UD 42%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #81 on: November 06, 2010, 10:53:56 PM »
No I absolutely believe that activists over the past 20 years can be credited for single handedly getting us to where we are today. Im submitting that there STILL needs to be more education.

So then you agree that your comment that probably only 10 people in Congress know what ADAP is was pure bullcrap?
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline WillyWump

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #82 on: November 06, 2010, 11:03:12 PM »
So then you agree that your comment that probably only 10 people in Congress know what ADAP is was pure bullcrap?

No I stand by that, although that's not exactly what I said, I said 10 in 100, since there are what 535 people in Congress that would work out to about 50 people.

I do not pretend to know how many people in Congress knows what ADAP is, my belief is that it is very few people. The statement I made was purely to make a point. I have no supporting reference to this.

How many people in Congress do you think could answer what ADAP is?

-WIll

POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%
8/9/12, CD4 not taken, UD.
2/13/12, CD4- 904, UD 42%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #83 on: November 06, 2010, 11:05:28 PM »

How many people in Congress do you think could answer what ADAP is?

-WIll



Don't know.

Hey Texas Pete -- no comment on my link down below about Texas thinking of cutting out Medicaid?  How many pozzies is that going to fuck up?  Folks get meds through that too you know.  Better get those signs going.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline WillyWump

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #84 on: November 06, 2010, 11:17:23 PM »
Don't know.


"So then you agree that your comment that probably only 10 people in Congress know what ADAP is was pure bullcrap?" - You obviously have a strong opinion on my belief that very few people in Congress know what ADAP is, so why don't you share those beliefs instead of merely giving an "I don't Know"??

Hey Texas Pete -- no comment on my link down below about Texas thinking of cutting out Medicaid?  How many pozzies is that going to fuck up?  Folks get meds through that too you know.  Better get those signs going.

I cannot solve all the countries problems in one night so let's stick to the ADAP crisis (which is already a hijack), I am curious to know what your thought is on the Federal government providing Assistance to bailout the current ADAP crisis?

-Will
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%
8/9/12, CD4 not taken, UD.
2/13/12, CD4- 904, UD 42%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #85 on: November 06, 2010, 11:22:05 PM »
let's stick to the ADAP crisis

That's such a dodge -- the thread topic is the Tea Party, not ADAP.  Now get going on Medicaid asit accounts for half of all federal spending on HIV/AIDS and your Tea Bag Slice o' Heaven state might be cutting it off.

I'll tell you one thing -- if this happens in a state like yours with +60,000 HIV diagnosis it will make the ADAP crisis look like child's play.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2010, 11:26:03 PM by Miss Philicia »
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline WillyWump

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #86 on: November 06, 2010, 11:50:22 PM »
That's such a dodge -- the thread topic is the Tea Party, not ADAP.  Now get going on Medicaid asit accounts for half of all federal spending on HIV/AIDS and your Tea Bag Slice o' Heaven state might be cutting it off.

I'll tell you one thing -- if this happens in a state like yours with +60,000 HIV diagnosis it will make the ADAP crisis look like child's play.

I have zero knowledge of the Texas pulling out of Medicaid thing, I will be sure to study it and comment in the next few days. Perhaps you should start a new thread on this?

Now...

You obviously have a strong opinion on my belief that very few people in Congress know what ADAP is, so why don't you share those beliefs instead of merely giving an "I don't Know"??

I am curious to know what your thought is on the Federal government providing Assistance to bailout the current ADAP crisis?

Still waiting on your thoughts, any thoughts?

-Will

POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%
8/9/12, CD4 not taken, UD.
2/13/12, CD4- 904, UD 42%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #87 on: November 07, 2010, 12:02:31 AM »


I am curious to know what your thought is on the Federal government providing Assistance to bailout the current ADAP crisis?

Still waiting on your thoughts, any thoughts?

-Will



Yes, in fact I do have a solution -- if Red States can't adhere to the federal/state funding of ADAP, meaning their part of the program, then they should lose the federal funding and be dropped entirely from the program.  In this way we can finally begin to reduce the budget deficit.  Once pozzies start to die in the street then maybe, just maybe, people in those states will begin to do more than "write letters".
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Granny60

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #88 on: November 07, 2010, 12:06:19 AM »
No I stand by that, although that's not exactly what I said, I said 10 in 100, since there are what 535 people in Congress that would work out to about 50 people.

I do not pretend to know how many people in Congress knows what ADAP is, my belief is that it is very few people. The statement I made was purely to make a point. I have no supporting reference to this.

How many people in Congress do you think could answer what ADAP is?

-WIll



 Having dealt with politicians for decades and having some friends including a Governor, Attorney General, etc., (all good  democrats by the way!) , i can tell you that most of the time the elected officials are going to brush you off to some aide that will advise them whether the issue is worthy of their attention and is politically  sensitive enough to warrant their time. That is where the lobbyists get their clout with more $  perks, and advertising.  you have 20,000 HIV pos people in need of assistance in a State and they don't have any money, most are afraid to go public, many can't afford to take off work to  protest or suck up,  or are too sick/ don't have transportation,  etc,  in a state of 7 million people,  then you have some lobby with millions of $ to spend and more than willing to  put a hundred grand in a campaign or buy ads on the side, free dinner, free trips, etc.,  who do you think gets the nod?   The people with HIV are not going to win support on sympathy as a minority.  I would bet you are right, very few senators or representatives would know what ADAP is with asking an aide to look it up.  ???  Our best bet is to enlist the drug companies with their $ and local politicians with their access to get help on the national level.  The worst part about that is it is going to  mean that many of us who cannot make our status public, have to put that at risk for  the rest of us . e.g. Harvey Milk/ Ryan White.   I had a political  loser tell me back in February, that "there are programs to help people like you....   don't remember the name.... some guy that had Aids a long time back." She meant Ryan White but didn't  know who he was or what the program was called and the benefits she was talking about aren't even part of that program.  >:( ??? ::)
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 12:08:14 AM by Granny60 »

Offline ElZorro

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #89 on: November 07, 2010, 12:09:32 AM »
Yes, in fact I do have a solution -- if Red States can't adhere to the federal/state funding of ADAP, meaning their part of the program, then they should lose the federal funding and be dropped entirely from the program.  In this way we can finally begin to reduce the budget deficit.  Once pozzies start to die in the street then maybe, just maybe, people in those states will begin to do more than "write letters".

Reclaiming the ADAP funds from the "red states" wouldn't even register as a "blip" against the budget deficit. Just like funding the shortfall wouldn't have any significant impact on the current federal budget. That's why it's absolutely ridiculous that anyone is waiting to receive the meds that will keep them alive.

Granny60

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #90 on: November 07, 2010, 12:13:37 AM »
Here is the link. today's New York times as well as many other sources  have published it.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/us/politics/07ttmedicaid.html

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #91 on: November 07, 2010, 12:22:27 AM »
I already linked to it once here and it fell on deaf ears.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline ElZorro

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #92 on: November 07, 2010, 12:23:12 AM »
Costs of the wars in the middle east:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0933935.html

Over one trillion dollars and counting

ADAP waiting lists:

http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparetable.jsp?ind=552&cat=11

3500 * $25k per = $88 million

It's really about priorities. We're willing to use the "b" word to fund a war and "protect and promote" democracy overseas, but can't find a few million to save American lives...for shame.  ???

Offline leatherman

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #93 on: November 07, 2010, 12:31:30 AM »
maybe, just maybe, people in those states will begin to do more than "write letters".
what other suggestions do you have to offer?

I've voted, written letters, called and spoken with state legislators, sent emails, signed petitions, waved signs on the steps of the capital and sat in the chambers with signs during their budgeting meetings, met and spoke legislators in person and have gotten as many people as I know to do the same; yet we're still outnumbered by the majority in the state who think differently on political matters than I do. I've also been passing out literature, writing editorial letters, speaking to school groups and at donation campaigns trying to educate people about safe sex (to keep people from adding to the numbers) along with explaining the ADAP problem. Just because the majority of people in my state don't understand the correct solution to the problem (sounds like "education" is a problem), should America let pozzies go without meds, incurring potential deaths, while continuing to spread HIV?

Yes, in fact I do have a solution ...they should lose the federal funding and be dropped entirely from the program. ...  Once pozzies start to die in the street ...
wow. I guess your answer, to my rhetorical question above, is to let people die.

not sending more money to states that need it just because they have bad representation only punishes the sick. I seem to remember back in the old days (ah the 80s) standing with the ACT-UP crowd cause the government thought a bunch of "queers dying from some disease they got from screwing" wasn't their problem. Now you're suggesting to let the pozzies die because their state governments still don't care if a bunch of people are dying from the aids. didn't you learn anything from watching your friends die all those years ago? A big part of the government is never going to care about pozzies and it's up to each of us to fight FOR each other - regardless of what state we live in.

of course, the HIV won't stay just within the boundaries of SC, Texas, Flordia, Georgia, or Ohio either. That's the nature of a communicable disease - it is EVERYONE's problem, whether in a red or blue state - which is the reason America funds HIV/AIDS treatment and prevention in other parts of the world. Why shouldn't the federal government also make sure that HIV/AIDS prevention and treatment covers all it's own territory too?

if Red States can't adhere to the federal/state funding of ADAP, meaning their part of the program, then they should lose the federal funding and be dropped entirely from the program.
which to bring it back around to the topic, pretending that ADAP funding is a red or blue state funding problem sounds awfully like a tea party slant to America's HIV/AIDS problem.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 12:36:14 AM by leatherman »
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Oh my friends, my friends forgive me
That I live and you are gone.
There's a grief that can't be spoken.
There's a pain goes on and on.
Empty chairs at empty tables
Where my friends will meet no more.

"Empty Chairs at Empty Tables" from Les Miserables

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #94 on: November 07, 2010, 12:45:36 AM »
So let me get this right Bivens -- you're asking someone in New York or California that already pays a really high tax rate to offset the low tax rate in South Carolina that is incapable of paying for ADAP?  What else should we buy for the citizens of the Palmetto State? I mean why stop with some measly AZT capsules, how about if we give you money for pot hole repairs and fertilizer for the governor's putting green.

And say the good citizens of New York and California do, in fact, take pity on your poz ass and fork over the dough what happens when a month later they cut more people off ADAP in an effort to squeeze out some more money from those naive Yanks?  And when we give you yet a second installment what happens when your state then stops Medicaid coverage.

I could keep going with this line of thought if you'd like.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 12:47:40 AM by Miss Philicia »
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Offline leatherman

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #95 on: November 07, 2010, 01:22:16 AM »
you're asking someone in New York or California that already pays a really high tax rate to offset the low tax rate in South Carolina that is incapable of paying for ADAP?
I sure do, David. To stop this epidemic, I think it's incumbent on ALL of America to stop and/or treat HIV wherever it is.

I think all the overtaxed people in NY and Cali (and the other 48 states) need to fork over money to pay for AIDS prevention and treatment in Malawi, South Africa, etc. too. So if it's okay to do PEPFAR for the whole world, it's okay to do it for all the states too. (Although I am assuming that you agree with the American policy to pay for people in other countries to get meds while the gov't of those countries buy military planes and waste their capital on fraud, waste and theft. I don't think I've ever heard you expounding against American spending money to solve the HIV/AIDS epidemic in other parts of the world.)

Do you really think that pozzies in the States should die to prove some point?
It sure won't be the state legislators who are dying without HIV meds.

and why continue along this line of reasoning? because it's a freaking epidemic.
This is about the ultimate in "universal health care"

Epidemics don't care about boundaries, borders, red or blue states, who's paying taxes, or who's a D or R. If you let SC, Florida and Texas become hotbeds of raging HIV/AIDS epidemic, it won't be long until it becomes more of a problem back in NY and Cali (and elsewhere). Looking back at and learning from the history of HIV in America, it's because of the hotbeds of early HIV infection in big cities in Cali and NY that HIV spread as it did throughout the states. Not stopping HIV in every state, would just cause the reverse to happen 10 yrs in the future.

Of course, one alternative (I'm trying to think of other solutions, any solutions) would be for pozzies to move to the states that do provide better care for their citizens; but then the states you are railing against would just get off scott free of paying anything at all towards the problem. At least while people stay in FL and Texas, those states are having to deal with the accompanying issues of medical care, food stamps, housing, etc.

Whether it's Malawi that won't pay for it's citizens HIV health care or SC, FL or TX that won't pay for it's citizens HIV health care, it's only wise to step in and handle the situation to save lives, to save money in the long run, and (selfishly) to save everyone else in the world from the epidemic too.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Oh my friends, my friends forgive me
That I live and you are gone.
There's a grief that can't be spoken.
There's a pain goes on and on.
Empty chairs at empty tables
Where my friends will meet no more.

"Empty Chairs at Empty Tables" from Les Miserables

Offline mecch

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #96 on: November 07, 2010, 04:36:54 AM »
I think the solution to the problem of ADAP is for democrats and concerned citizens to depend Health Care Reform.  It will take a long time for Americans as a whole to cherish universal care, as they now cherish social security, unemployment, etc., but over time it will become the norm.
I think democrats should ask tough questions of tea partiers about fiscal responsibility because whining about safety net expenditures, maybe even cutting them, isn't going to do jack squat.
The only way forward is progressive taxation and Elizabeth Warren type advocacy that appeals to a broad majority of Mr. and Mrs. tout-le-monde.  If the government becomes only a puppet of the super rich, banana republic status is assured.  Some weird and very dangerous banana republic with a powerful military. Gated communities etc etc. Soylent Green time.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Ann

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #97 on: November 07, 2010, 06:51:14 AM »
This should be lots o' fun to see how it effects HIV'ers in the Lone Star State!

NY Times: Texas Considers Medicaid Withdrawal

Why doesn't Texas just become the Lone Star Country and get it over with? Haven't they talked secession for years now? Of course there'd be a huge exodus of ~ahem~ normal people out of the place, but hey, it's all good if right-wing Texans were dumped out of the American political system. The remaining Texans could build a wall around the place and be left to stew in their lack of health care and education. They'd implode sooner or later and the geography could be returned to America.

It really boggles my mind to watch what the direction America seems to be going. It's like watching a train wreck and it scares the shit out of me.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Online RapidRod

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #98 on: November 07, 2010, 07:05:35 AM »
Why doesn't Texas just become the Lone Star Country and get it over with? Haven't they talked secession for years now? Of course there'd be a huge exodus of ~ahem~ normal people out of the place, but hey, it's all good if right-wing Texans were dumped out of the American political system. The remaining Texans could build a wall around the place and be left to stew in their lack of health care and education. They'd implode sooner or later and the geography could be returned to America.

It really boggles my mind to watch what the direction America seems to be going. It's like watching a train wreck and it scares the shit out of me.
Why would it scare you? You aren't living in the US.  ::)

Offline Ann

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #99 on: November 07, 2010, 07:11:56 AM »
Why would it scare you? You aren't living in the US.  ::)

It scares me because what people get away with happens in the US often emboldens conservatives all around the world. People here in the UK sometimes agitate that we should have a health care system more like the mess that you have - those people have obviously not lived under both systems like I have and have no idea what they're talking about.

I also have family and friends who live in the US. So yes, I'm frightened for them. I'm not one of those "I'm ok, Jack" people, I care about others too.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Online RapidRod

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #100 on: November 07, 2010, 07:15:03 AM »
It scares me because what people get away with happens in the US often emboldens conservatives all around the world. People here in the UK sometimes agitate that we should have a health care system more like the mess that you have - those people have obviously not lived under both systems like I have and have no idea what they're talking about.

I also have family and friends who live in the US. So yes, I'm frightened for them. I'm not one of those "I'm ok, Jack" people, I care about others too.
Thanks for explaining your concerns.

Granny60

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #101 on: November 07, 2010, 11:18:55 AM »
I sure do, David. To stop this epidemic, I think it's incumbent on ALL of America to stop and/or treat HIV wherever it is.

I think all the overtaxed people in NY and Cali (and the other 48 states) need to fork over money to pay for AIDS prevention and treatment in Malawi, South Africa, etc. too. So if it's okay to do PEPFAR for the whole world, it's okay to do it for all the states too. (Although I am assuming that you agree with the American policy to pay for people in other countries to get meds while the gov't of those countries buy military planes and waste their capital on fraud, waste and theft. I don't think I've ever heard you expounding against American spending money to solve the HIV/AIDS epidemic in other parts of the world.)

Do you really think that pozzies in the States should die to prove some point?
It sure won't be the state legislators who are dying without HIV meds.

and why continue along this line of reasoning? because it's a freaking epidemic.
This is about the ultimate in "universal health care"

Epidemics don't care about boundaries, borders, red or blue states, who's paying taxes, or who's a D or R. If you let SC, Florida and Texas become hotbeds of raging HIV/AIDS epidemic, it won't be long until it becomes more of a problem back in NY and Cali (and elsewhere). Looking back at and learning from the history of HIV in America, it's because of the hotbeds of early HIV infection in big cities in Cali and NY that HIV spread as it did throughout the states. Not stopping HIV in every state, would just cause the reverse to happen 10 yrs in the future.

Of course, one alternative (I'm trying to think of other solutions, any solutions) would be for pozzies to move to the states that do provide better care for their citizens; but then the states you are railing against would just get off scott free of paying anything at all towards the problem. At least while people stay in FL and Texas, those states are having to deal with the accompanying issues of medical care, food stamps, housing, etc.

Whether it's Malawi that won't pay for it's citizens HIV health care or SC, FL or TX that won't pay for it's citizens HIV health care, it's only wise to step in and handle the situation to save lives, to save money in the long run, and (selfishly) to save everyone else in the world from the epidemic too.

Goes all the way back to Ronald Reagan who the republicans worship as their gun toteing Budda who had a chance to  head this epidemic off from the start,  but noooooo,  We have to put more people in government jobs ( yes gov't employment went UP during Reagan/Bush) and increase military spending instead.   ::)

Offline mecch

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #102 on: November 07, 2010, 04:52:03 PM »
OK lets get back to my topic thread and brainstorm.
Has anyone heard a tea partier with vision and a viable plan for "fiscal responsibility"?

I am no great fan of Reagan and didnt share his policy goals, but he was an experienced politician, a serious man and a sincere man. I never felt for a second he went into politics for money or power. 

The current Republican gloating about a message to Obama from the American people, just seems so fucking empty.  Its all reactionary and negative and undoing.  Where is the fucking vision?  I truly believe that big corporations and the billionaires club are having their way, using unthinking cows, who think they are part of a movement which is nonsensical.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline ElZorro

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #103 on: November 07, 2010, 04:54:14 PM »
OK lets get back to my topic thread and brainstorm.
Has anyone heard a tea partier with vision and a viable plan for "fiscal responsibility"?

I am no great fan of Reagan and didnt share his policy goals, but he was an experienced politician, a serious man and a sincere man. I never felt for a second he went into politics for money or power. 

The current Republican gloating about a message to Obama from the American people, just seems so fucking empty.  Its all reactionary and negative and undoing.  Where is the fucking vision?  I truly believe that big corporations and the billionaires club are having their way, using unthinking cows, who think they are part of a movement which is nonsensical.

Not ashamed to admit it: I loved Reagan. It's probably impossible to agree with anyone on everything, but, for my money, he was a great American and really made a difference in this world. 

Offline MitchMiller

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #104 on: November 07, 2010, 05:12:21 PM »
Wow... a Tea Party king (Jim DeMint) states on Meet The Press (www.nbcnews.com) that Repubs are not for cuts to SS and Medicare!  LOL... what a bunch of hypocrites... crowing for privitization just four years ago.

LOL.. some of these guys will do anything to get back in power.

The funniest thing about the interview is when DeMint begins stating his answer to David Gregory about how SS and Medicare are off the table, he starts choking.  He can't swallow his own lies as he tows the new Republican party line.  He hates FDR entitlement programs.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #105 on: November 07, 2010, 05:24:42 PM »
Not ashamed to admit it: I loved Reagan. It's probably impossible to agree with anyone on everything, but, for my money, he was a great American and really made a difference in this world. 

If you had been diagnosed with AIDS in 1984 would you have thought the same thing?  I mean, you're the same age as I am so assuming you were out of the closet back then what exactly were your thoughts as gay men were croaking left and right and Reagan had zilch to say about it?

Great President my ass.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline ElZorro

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #106 on: November 07, 2010, 05:27:56 PM »
It's probably impossible to agree with anyone on everything

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #107 on: November 07, 2010, 05:29:46 PM »
The current Republican gloating about a message to Obama from the American people, just seems so fucking empty.  Its all reactionary and negative and undoing.  Where is the fucking vision?

I don't know a lot about the Tea Party but my impression is that this isn't a political party but a reaction to Obama, the Democrats and the failed economy. Basically it is an umbrella of people who don't like the federal government, don't like taxes, don't want healthcare reform, don't want bailouts, do want stronger response to illegal immigrants and don't like having a black president. I think this movement is almost entirely reactionary and they don't have, or want, a vision.

If I'm wrong feel free to correct me.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #108 on: November 07, 2010, 05:30:10 PM »


That didn't answer my question, that just dodged it. 
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline ElZorro

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #109 on: November 07, 2010, 05:33:42 PM »
My thoughts were pretty much the same as what everyone else's thoughts probably were. Mainly, WTF is going on and how are "they" going to cure this? I won't dismiss his entire presidency, though, based on just HIV/AIDS.

Offline mecch

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #110 on: November 07, 2010, 05:41:02 PM »
Why is Obamas presidency considered a failure on HIV/AIDS?  Is it not the states' responsibility to fund the people in need of ADAP?
Doesn't he get some cred for Health Care Reform, since thats inching towards all sick people getting basic health care as a right?
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Granny60

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #111 on: November 07, 2010, 06:12:36 PM »
Not ashamed to admit it: I loved Reagan. It's probably impossible to agree with anyone on everything, but, for my money, he was a great American and really made a difference in this world.  

Read the link below.  Notice the number of Federal employees never went down,  but actually rose during Reagan Bush.  More republican Hypocrasy.  During Reagan the Farmers all went Broke, Remember the Farm crisis?  We were getting 60 to 70 bankruptcy auction sale bills  in the mail per week.  The Savings and Loans went broke,  The railroads and trucking companies went broke,  But  due to republican propaganda, and money pouring in from right wing moral  majority wack jobs such as Rush Limbaugh,  Newt Gingrich , Pat Robertson, and Jerry  Falwell,    Reagan was the saving angel Budda to be worshiped.

http://www.data360.org/dsg.aspx?Data_Set_Group_Id=228

 see also Reagan and Aids,  there are hundreds of links to be found

http://www.thebody.com/content/art14034.html

http://articles.sfgate.com/2004-06-08/opinion/17428849_1_aids-in-san-francisco-aids-research-education-cases

Since you probably won't read the links, I have pasted this quote: according to his White House physician, Reagan thought of AIDS as though "it was measles and it would go away." Reagan's biographer Lou Cannon claims that the president's response to AIDS was "halting and ineffective."
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 06:18:23 PM by Granny60 »

Granny60

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #112 on: November 07, 2010, 06:22:48 PM »
If you had been diagnosed with AIDS in 1984 would you have thought the same thing?  I mean, you're the same age as I am so assuming you were out of the closet back then what exactly were your thoughts as gay men were croaking left and right and Reagan had zilch to say about it?

Great President my ass.

Actually your ass may be smarter and less of a hypocrite.

Offline J.R.E.

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #113 on: November 07, 2010, 06:35:59 PM »


"The failure to act"    The Reagan Administrations deliberate failure to address the aids Epidemic:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sxz9M36LjYY


Ray
Current Meds ; Viramune, Epzicom, 40mg of simvastatin, 12.5mg of Hydrochlorothiazide.
Metoprolol tartrate 25mg



http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=40802.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45159.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39722.msg495621;topicseen#msg495621

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=46806.0

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=39414.msg491701#msg491701


 In October of 2003, My t-cell count was 16, Viral load was over 500,000, Percentage at that time was 5%. I started my first  HAART regimen  on October 24th,03.

 As of DEC 9th, 2013,  t-cells are at 437 Viral load  <40 .

 Current % is at 16% (L)

  
 62 years young.

Offline WillyWump

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #114 on: November 07, 2010, 07:47:35 PM »
Don't know.

Hey Texas Pete -- no comment on my link down below about Texas thinking of cutting out Medicaid?  

Ok Pennsylvania Pat I've skimmed the article and here is my comment...

Pffffffft! Barbara PLEASE! This is merely a bunch a conservs who are threatening to withdraw from Medicaid merely to give Washington the big middle finger. Nothing will ever happen with it. Hell this is coming from the state to threatens to secede about every 2 years, hell even Perry mentioned seceding last year in a news conference. You can't believe anything that comes out of the mouths of these whack jobs in Austin. What else you got?\

-T. Pete
« Last Edit: November 07, 2010, 08:32:51 PM by WillyWump »
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%
8/9/12, CD4 not taken, UD.
2/13/12, CD4- 904, UD 42%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #115 on: November 07, 2010, 08:10:56 PM »
Please explain how the administration was able to come up with $26 million to clear the lists in a couple states.

I fear the discussion has moved on and this is becoming quite a hi-jack, but this is actually an interesting question to the budget geeks and one which they only partially explained.  For an overview of Federal HIV/AIDS funding see this Kaiser Family Foundation doc:  http://www.kff.org/hivaids/upload/7029-05.pdf

As this doc shows, federal ADAP monies come from the annual appropriations process (unlike Social Security and Medicare which are already authorized through a permanent "mandatory" appropriation and the government just pays the bills).  What HHS said at the time was that the monies were "reallocated from dozens of programs from throughout HHS. "  http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2010pres/07/adap.html  Presumably that means they went through every program that they could argue might be read to support ADAP's goals and looked to see whether more had been appropriated than was going to be used and swept up the unused money and set it aside as additional ADAP funding.  This was likely practical because they were almost at the end of the fiscal year (Sep 30) and
had a good idea where there would be surpluses.  It doesn't seem like a good long term strategy though.  Instead, Congress needs to apporpriate more money.  The Administration asked for another $50 million back in February, but it needs to ask for more.

Of course not everyone with HIV is on ADAP. I never said otherwise. I assumed the reader would know this without stating the obvious. However I submit that even ONE person on a waiting list is too many.

Agreed, but please provide some supporting information that everyone on waiting lists is being covered through these means.

Absolutely agreed! Show me where I said this was not true, I applaud the initiative wholeheartedly, my concern is that they did not provide a mechanism to get people Meds immediately if need be. However I'll go further and propose that perhaps the inverse of that statement is true...Is there a potential that someone diagnosed under T&T with a cd4 of 25 and a VL in the millions is then placed on a waiting list , but under the pressure of it all just "gives up" and goes off the radar and throws in the towel?

-will
"The perfect is the enemy of the good."  and here we aren't even dealing with the realistically perfect but the hypothetical.  If we could get the waiting lists down to, say, less than one month, we would have ample reason to celebrate victory and move on. 
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #116 on: November 07, 2010, 08:17:58 PM »
I don't know a lot about the Tea Party but my impression is that this isn't a political party but a reaction to Obama, the Democrats and the failed economy. Basically it is an umbrella of people who don't like the federal government, don't like taxes, don't want healthcare reform, don't want bailouts, do want stronger response to illegal immigrants and don't like having a black president. I think this movement is almost entirely reactionary and they don't have, or want, a vision.

If I'm wrong feel free to correct me.

I agree in the main.  But in some ways it seems like a temporary grouping that is almost being set up/encouraged as a way for conservative Republicans to express their disgust and nihilism without having to take responsibility for proposing solutions the way a permanent party does. (Or at least the way that in theory a permanent party does, although it is difficult to reconcile the Pledge with taking responsibility in practice)
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline edfu

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #117 on: November 08, 2010, 06:17:52 AM »
I've been depressed and saddened and horrified by many things that I've read on AIDSmeds.com, but nothing so much as someone here actually praising Ronald Reagan. 

George Santayana, HELP!!!
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline woodshere

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #118 on: November 08, 2010, 09:03:26 AM »
Tea Party poster child Sen. Elect Rand Paul of KY (sry folks I did my part to see it didn't happen) appeared on This Week w/Christiane Amanpour.  In a 15 minute interview where he was questioned continually about specific cuts he could not offer specific answers.  "CUT SPENDING"  "BALANCE THE BUDGET" "REDUCE THE DEBT"  simple words that sound good and appeal to the base, but Congressman who continue saying them cannot provide a fiscal responsible answer as to how it is all done.  But at least they got to elected.  Here is the link to the story and video:   http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/rand-paul-long-budget-cuts-short-specifics/story?id=12079618

"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline mecch

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #119 on: November 08, 2010, 03:38:25 PM »
Same with Michelle Bachmann on Anderson Cooper.  Blurbs, sound bites, talking points, no concrete suggestions.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #120 on: November 09, 2010, 01:14:45 AM »
Ok Pennsylvania Pat I've skimmed the article and here is my comment...

Pffffffft! Barbara PLEASE! This is merely a bunch a conservs who are threatening to withdraw from Medicaid merely to give Washington the big middle finger. Nothing will ever happen with it. Hell this is coming from the state to threatens to secede about every 2 years, hell even Perry mentioned seceding last year in a news conference. You can't believe anything that comes out of the mouths of these whack jobs in Austin. What else you got?

-T. Pete

You laugh now...

source

Legislature likely to cut deep to meet possible $25 billion budget gap

Texas faces a budget crisis of truly daunting proportions, with lawmakers likely to cut sacrosanct programs such as education for the first time in memory and to lay off hundreds if not thousands of state workers and public university employees.

Texas' GOP leaders, their eyes on the Nov. 2 election, have played down the problem's size, even as the hole in the next two-year cycle has grown in recent weeks to as much as $24 billion to $25 billion. That's about 25 percent of current spending.

The gap is now proportionately larger than the deficit California recently closed with cuts and fee increases, its fourth dose of budget misery since September 2008.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Granny60

  • Guest
Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #121 on: November 09, 2010, 10:53:19 AM »
You laugh now...

source

Legislature likely to cut deep to meet possible $25 billion budget gap

Texas faces a budget crisis of truly daunting proportions, with lawmakers likely to cut sacrosanct programs such as education for the first time in memory and to lay off hundreds if not thousands of state workers and public university employees.

Texas' GOP leaders, their eyes on the Nov. 2 election, have played down the problem's size, even as the hole in the next two-year cycle has grown in recent weeks to as much as $24 billion to $25 billion. That's about 25 percent of current spending.

The gap is now proportionately larger than the deficit California recently closed with cuts and fee increases, its fourth dose of budget misery since September 2008.

Clearly right wing republican blathering mouth Wackjob control of Texas for a number years has gotten the state nowhere then.  ::) Let em cecede from the U.S.  In a year we could  invade them like a broken third world country.  Without the 1/3 rd of their budget that comes fromthe  Federal gov't.  they would fall in a mud puddle face first.
http://www.statesman.com/news/texas-politics/campaign-rhetoric-obscures-facts-about-federal-money-172606.html 

Offline edfu

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #122 on: November 09, 2010, 07:50:27 PM »
If they seceded, we'd end up paying them billions in foreign aid! 
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Granny60

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #123 on: November 09, 2010, 08:19:01 PM »
If they seceded, we'd end up paying them billions in foreign aid! 

Good point. We would probably end up doing that even if we invaded and occupied them. ???

Offline leatherman

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #124 on: November 14, 2010, 11:01:12 AM »
today on FoxSunday 11/14, I heard my Senator, Jim Demint R-SC, the nominal leader of the Tea Party movement in the Senate, say the craziest thing: "If he (Obama) wants to work on our side of the ledger, then we can work together." So if the President wants to do things Demint's way, then Demint will be happy to compromise. ::) Perhaps Mr. Demint needs to re-read the dictionary for the definition of "compromise".
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Oh my friends, my friends forgive me
That I live and you are gone.
There's a grief that can't be spoken.
There's a pain goes on and on.
Empty chairs at empty tables
Where my friends will meet no more.

"Empty Chairs at Empty Tables" from Les Miserables

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #125 on: November 16, 2010, 10:53:04 AM »
source

Quote
A conservative Maryland physician elected to Congress on an anti-Obamacare platform surprised fellow freshmen at a Monday orientation session by demanding to know why his government-subsidized health care plan takes a month to kick in.

Republican Andy Harris ... reacted incredulously when informed that federal law mandated that his government-subsidized health care policy would take effect on Feb. 1 – 28 days after his Jan. 3rd swearing-in.

“He stood up and asked the two ladies who were answering questions why it had to take so long, what he would do without 28 days of health care" ... “Harris then asked if he could purchase insurance from the government to cover the gap," added the aide, who was struck by the similarity to Harris’s request and the public option he denounced as a gateway to socialized medicine.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline woodshere

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Re: I don't get the Tea Party
« Reply #126 on: November 16, 2010, 11:39:42 AM »
I am not sure if I want to laugh or cry!
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

 


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