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Author Topic: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?  (Read 5395 times)

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Offline Zohar

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  • Posts: 249
Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« on: October 28, 2010, 07:24:21 PM »
Many people with HIV often find disclosure prior to sex with a new partner difficult and, as as we know - not least from the court cases that hit the headlines from time to time - that it doesn't always happen.

When one is negative, it's very easy to say that everyone with confirmed HIV should always disclose their status but I wonder how many people once they are diagnosed, actually do this.

So did your opnion on this issue change after your diagnosis?
''Poor is the man whose pleasures depend on the permission of another.''

Offline ElZorro

  • Member
  • Posts: 535
Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2010, 08:39:44 PM »
Nope....despite the drama it might create, I think it's best to "do unto others...."

Offline phildinftlaudy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,965
  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2010, 08:41:20 PM »
Hi Zohar:

If you do a search in the box underneath where members online are listed you will find a bunch of thread about this topic.  It usually gets a bit controversial.  There are of course legal reasons for disclosure in many areas, but there are also human reasons in regards to developing an honest relationship and finding out someone's feelings about your status before you get too far involved (and maybe find out that they aren't able or willing to handle being with a postive person).

This, of course, does not take away the responsibility of each person who is about to engage in sex to practice safe sex or to take responsibility for not practicing safe sex.

But, check out the search box and look up "disclosure" - you will probably get a pretty good idea of some of the previous conversation/discussion/emotions/thoughts that the topic hs generated.
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline skeebo1969

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  • Posts: 5,705
Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2010, 08:55:45 PM »
So did your opnion on this issue change after your diagnosis?

  I've always been good about avoiding sticky issues....  I only dated positive women after I was diagnosed.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Snowangel

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Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2010, 09:25:08 PM »
I don't go to church often and don't say I am any particular religion but I follow the thought of treating people the way you want to be treated.

Before I was diagnosed I got on an HIV kick because not to long before Magic game out.  At the time he came out I was with the same guy until I broke up with him couple of years later and got myself tested. Months after that,  met the guy that infected me.   When  we finally started talking about having sex, I told him I had gotten tested and was negative and asked if he had. He said he had and was negative also. I can still remember where we were when I asked him. Obviously ,he lied because I seroconverted pretty quickly after and was sick as a dog. One of his exs actually called and asked me if "I wanted AIDS you fucking bitch" before I found out and I had asked him again and he lied again.  

Being infected wasn't the worse part, him holding it over my head was.  Living  for years night and day with someone telling you they are going to tell your job and your family that you are a nasty ass infected bitch and kicking your ass if you don't do what they want ,on top of feeling like a piece of shit from being sick sucks AND even though, 17 years later, he can't physically hurt me, he still does emotionally by doing what he can to get at me thru my son.

I would never want to do anything closeto that to another human being.

So no, my answer is my opinion hasn't changed. I told before and I tell now.

Snow
Of all the things you wear, your expression is the most important

The heaviest thing you can carry is a grudge..

One thing you can give and still keep...is your word.

One thing you can't recycle is wasted time.

Offline weasel

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  • Posts: 1,686
Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2010, 09:35:42 PM »


   Zohar  ,
              I have had   HIV /  AIDS   so many years it is hard to imagine   life with out  HIV !

            I would NEVER  spread it to anyone !

           Maybe this is why I stay  TRUE   to my husband   of  30  years   ?

           More than   likely !

             I often  think about  an affair , It Is  the GAY thing  :o

             But telling a SEX partner ?  NOPE , I'll stick  to my own  BOY  :)

                                                                     Weasel
                       
" Live and let Live "

Offline emeraldize

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,353
Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2010, 11:59:39 PM »
I tell and I'm alone and I won't stop telling and hopefully, I won't stop hoping.

He's out there, somewhere. And meanwhile, I'm living a fine life. I hope he is, too.

Offline AuroraCOGuy

  • Member
  • Posts: 29
Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2010, 03:06:44 AM »
I gotta be honest, this is something I dread going forward. I haven't really even thought of dating yet, not seriously as least, but I'm scared of that day and the real risk of rejection over it. But I can say without a doubt that I will tell whomever I'm dating my status. I wasn't given a choice/info and now my life has changed forever, in a way that I'm still highly uncomfortable with. I don't ever want to do that to someone else...
Infected 04-17-2010
Diagnosed 07-05-2010

07/2010 - CD4 741, 40%   VL ~4500 (initial labs)
08/2010 - CD4 751, 41%   VL ~3000 (one month after initial labs)
09/2010 - CD4 732, 40%   VL ~2000
10/2010 - CD4 738, 40%   VL < 1000
11/2010 - CD4 761, 41%   VL 430
12/2010 - CD4 758, 41%   VL 194
01/2011 - CD4 745, 40%   VL 103
02/2011 - CD4 782, 41%   VL 77
03/2011 - CD4 763, 41%   VL < 50 / UD
04/2011 - CD4 758, 41%,  VL < 50 / UD
05/2011 - CD4 761, 41%   VL < 50 / UD
09/2011 - still UD, still strong
06/2013 - still UD, never a blip

Never taken any therapy/meds

Offline skeebo1969

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  • Posts: 5,705
Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2010, 09:13:15 AM »
I tell and I'm alone and I won't stop telling and hopefully, I won't stop hoping.

He's out there, somewhere. And meanwhile, I'm living a fine life. I hope he is, too.

No, never stop hoping Em... but, I bet he ain't living nearly the fantastic life you are!  Personally, I think the guy has issues for not finding you yet.  A bunch of us guys here should get together and kick his ass for making you wait.

I know you are well though, so I will keep hoping for you also.

(((hugs)))
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline klipsch

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  • Posts: 90
Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2010, 12:06:06 AM »
I've dated women both positive and negative since being diagnosed in 98. If I meet somebody new, that isn't positive as well...I disclose as soon as I see that there may be feelings developing on either part. If they're going to run, then I want to know before I become too emotionally vested in the friendship/relationship...and I feel I owe the woman the same opportunity to leave before it's more difficult. As far as dating women that are positive as well...I've never thought that two people being HIV+ is anything to base a relationship on. I look for the same attraction whether positive or negative...and I've found fruitloops in either group. But they say we attract who we are...lol.
For me...disclosure is as complicated today as it was when I was first diagnosed. Actually...based on past experiences, both good and bad...I tend to think it through a lot more before doing so now. But I'll be honest, and say that I wish I could just say "I'm HIV+" without all of the feelings of fear, stigma...etc, that go along with it. I haven't gotten to that point yet...
when shit has value...the poor will be born without assholes...

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2010, 07:07:18 AM »
When one is negative, it's very easy to say that everyone with confirmed HIV should always disclose their status but I wonder how many people once they are diagnosed, actually do this.

As a very sexually active HIV- gay man, I never expected someone to disclose.  If for some reason I wanted to know, I would ask. If for some reason the partner felt like disclosing, fine.  This was my experience for 20 years.

My expectations and values about disclosure were different when it seemed something was turning into a relationship.  Again, 20 years experience.

I was pretty angry in the late 80s when a boyfriend of a few years lied to my face many times about HIV.  But, we had safesex so the anger was not based on a transmission risk. 

I think maybe you want to imagine there are black and white dos and donts, rights and wrongs, in this issue and you know what, my two cents is that its a very grey subtle issue.



“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline numbersguy82

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  • Posts: 292
Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2010, 08:44:24 AM »
Thankfully I haven't really dated anyone since I was diagnosed so I haven't had to disclose to anyone yet. I have had a few dates but they never progressed past the friendship stage. I think at this point I just want to cultivate my own identity a bit more before putting myself back out there. I have told an ex about my status because we tend to gravitate back to one another when we are both single. He has done a lot of research so I think if we do decide to give it another whirl that he would be armed with all the facts he would need to feel comfortable.

Wow Snowangel that is really an amazing story! I'm glad that you have found a better place now :)

Weasel all I can say is AMEN! It's nice to hear about a long term and commited couple!!!

Em... I agree with skeebo! You will find Mr Right... now about getting those guys on here motivated...
8/10- 73 cd4, 7%, and 300k VL *First Labs*
9/10- Started Norvir, Prezista, and Truvada
10/10- 511 cd4, 22%, and 886 VL
12/10- 498 cd4, 22%, and 106 VL
3/11- 529 cd4, 29%, and 101 VL
8/11- 620 cd4, 30%, and 74 VL- Switched to Atripla
10/11- 580 ce4, 30%, and 62 VL
12/11- 684 cd4, 31%, and FINALLY *UD*

Offline Hellraiser

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  • Posts: 4,136
  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2010, 11:06:56 AM »
I think maybe you want to imagine there are black and white dos and donts, rights and wrongs, in this issue and you know what, my two cents is that its a very grey subtle issue.

I am continually confounded by this opinion.  Why wouldn't this also be black and white?  You have HIV, that's not going to change, don't you think you should tell someone before you're 6-10 inches deep that you have it?

Offline woodshere

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  • Posts: 1,477
  • ain't no shame in my game
Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2010, 01:34:59 PM »
After almost 5 years it continues to suck...but what's a whore to do?
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2010, 11:27:28 PM »
I am continually confounded by this opinion.  Why wouldn't this also be black and white?  You have HIV, that's not going to change, don't you think you should tell someone before you're 6-10 inches deep that you have it?

Sometimes yes sometimes no.  For example.  Two weeks ago i went to a sex club. My experience was no different two weeks ago being HIV+ then a few years ago when I was HIV-. All the sex was safe and no one talked about HIV. 

One time last year I went on a date with a nice guy and I thought he might be dating material. And yet, I didn't know him well, but he is best friends with a colleague of mine.  I decided NOT to date him because I felt like I should disclose and I didn't want to disclose to someone I didn't know who could blab this to a colleague.

The OP asked if the opinion or practice changed after serocoversion and I am just honestly answering no. And I sure am not alone in this "some partners need to know and others dont" practice because thats been the standard experience I've found in 25 years of screwing. 
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline emeraldize

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  • Posts: 3,353
Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2010, 12:38:32 AM »
No, never stop hoping Em... but, I bet he ain't living nearly the fantastic life you are!  Personally, I think the guy has issues for not finding you yet.  A bunch of us guys here should get together and kick his ass for making you wait.

I know you are well though, so I will keep hoping for you also.

(((hugs)))
Hey, thanks, Skeebs. Oh yes, let us find him and kick his ass for not allowing us to know his name sooner! That should bode well for a long-term non-progressing relationship!! :D

Offline elf

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  • Posts: 613
Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2010, 12:40:50 AM »
1. when I was Hiv-, I didn't expect anyone to disclose their status (either positive or negative),
in Europe, people are too polite to ask questions like that...
I'd say that the normal policy is ''don't ask don't tell'' as long as a condom is used
2. no one got infected because the other partner did not disclose but because the condom was not used
3. I haven't dated for 2.5 years (well, since my being diagnosed)...

Offline skeebo1969

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  • Posts: 5,705
Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2010, 12:58:55 AM »
Hey, thanks, Skeebs. Oh yes, let us find him and kick his ass for not allowing us to know his name sooner! That should bode well for a long-term non-progressing relationship!! :D

I am glad you see things the same way I do.  It's not often that I find someone who fully agrees with my methods. 
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Zohar

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  • Posts: 249
Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2010, 07:39:36 PM »

I think maybe you want to imagine there are black and white dos and donts, rights and wrongs, in this issue and you know what, my two cents is that its a very grey subtle issue.


If that was directed at me then I certainly don't think it's a black and white issue; indeed, I think it's highly complex. I never expected anyone to tell me their status when I was negative and I think those people who try to impose rules on people are both naive and misguided. Talking about sexual infections is highly taboo, even in the supposedly liberal gay world, so why anyone would think HIV should be exempt from this is something of a mystery.

As for the legalities of dislcosure, well, it has to be said, laws have never been very efficient at regulating sexual behaviour; how many of us were sexually active before the age of consent? I would certainly have to hold my hand up to that one. Also, as far as I'm aware, prostituion is criminalised the world over and yet it still occurs pretty much universally.  So, as far as disclosure is concerned, whatever laws are theoretically applicable are, in reality, neither here nor there.

Overall, I think that disclosing before sex is a highly personal, indivudual decision to be made on a case by case basis.
''Poor is the man whose pleasures depend on the permission of another.''

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2010, 09:06:37 PM »
Ah ok thanks for the clarification.


So, have you analyzed this survey?  Has anyone's opinion changed after becoming HIV+?
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline dtwpuck

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  • дано мне тело, что мне делать с ним?
Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2010, 09:15:07 PM »
I disclose and it hasn't always been easy.    I don't like rejection any better than anyone else, but there's part of me that would rather just get it out of the way before it becomes a more painful problem.

If one is gay and in a Western country, it's pretty easy to find other poz partners, at least for casual sex.  However, I haven't really ever dated another poz guy seriously, at least not it in the last decade.  Interestingly, my status hasn't ever been an issue for anyone I've ever dated.   But, for casual sex, it's common to get rejected.    I'm glad I'm too old now to care about the whole hooking up thing. 
Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Offline AuroraCOGuy

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  • Posts: 29
Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2010, 10:34:09 PM »
If one is gay and in a Western country, it's pretty easy to find other poz partners...

But what about for heterosexual men who didn't get HIV from playing on the DL or running around banging anything with a pulse? I realize that I'm a mere 4 months into having this virus and I'm yet to do anything with regards to relationships other than to end my marriage, but I mean I gotta admit, this very subject has me wondering about if anything in the future will happen. I've briefly looked at a few sites focused to dating for people with STIs and I gotta be honest, the biological female count is in the toilet. Lots of t-girls, transvestites, gay men and straight men but very few women.

Talked to a few women that I'm semi-close to and all had the same reaction - there's no way I got this from my wife, I must have been banging a hooker or having anonymous hookups from Craigslist or Backpage. Again, I freely admit that I'm a newbie in this HIV+ life that I'm now living and was unsuspectingly put upon me. But the stigma within my own inner circle of friends makes me cringe and quite honestly want to cry when I think about the future. The thought of actually finding a woman that I'm compatible with and then having to tell her, "Hey look, I'm HIV+ but..." and that's it, she's out the door.

Almost makes me want to swear a life of celibacy here and now than deal with that shit. For that matter, it would almost be easier to tell my wife, "ok, you fucked up but whatever, it's all good, let's be married again".
Infected 04-17-2010
Diagnosed 07-05-2010

07/2010 - CD4 741, 40%   VL ~4500 (initial labs)
08/2010 - CD4 751, 41%   VL ~3000 (one month after initial labs)
09/2010 - CD4 732, 40%   VL ~2000
10/2010 - CD4 738, 40%   VL < 1000
11/2010 - CD4 761, 41%   VL 430
12/2010 - CD4 758, 41%   VL 194
01/2011 - CD4 745, 40%   VL 103
02/2011 - CD4 782, 41%   VL 77
03/2011 - CD4 763, 41%   VL < 50 / UD
04/2011 - CD4 758, 41%,  VL < 50 / UD
05/2011 - CD4 761, 41%   VL < 50 / UD
09/2011 - still UD, still strong
06/2013 - still UD, never a blip

Never taken any therapy/meds

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2010, 10:55:05 PM »
Are you joking?  HIV/AIDS is the No. 1 killer of black American women between 25 and 34.  Maybe you're not looking in the right places?

I can't speak for where you live, but where I do the female statistics are even more grave than what the national numbers say, and with women going up into their 60's.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline AuroraCOGuy

  • Member
  • Posts: 29
Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2010, 02:47:33 AM »
Are you joking?  HIV/AIDS is the No. 1 killer of black American women between 25 and 34.  Maybe you're not looking in the right places?

I can't speak for where you live, but where I do the female statistics are even more grave than what the national numbers say, and with women going up into their 60's.

Again, this is new to me so forgive me for not being on the up and up. I'm still at the "what the fuck" stage trying to figure out the rules and what happens from here. However the reality is, at least for the dredges of the internet dating sites, it's pretty slim pickings. Now maybe it's just that the women you reference have sworn off men or don't bother signing up or whatever. And I freely admit I'm in zero condition to start dating much less meeting people new in that sort of environment. But I was trying to figure out the "what might the future hold for me" question and it's rather depressing.

Given that quite a few women are infected by a man they trusted who was fucking around and living a lie behind their back, then meeting another guy who is +, well, doesn't bode well for the new guy regardless of his story.

Back on topic, I'll still disclose and knowing my personality and not holding stuff back and being transparent (gee you think?), I'd disclose on day 1 most likely. Better to get a slap in the face, figuratively speaking, then a kick in the nads and my heart extricated via my ass once feelings got involved.
Infected 04-17-2010
Diagnosed 07-05-2010

07/2010 - CD4 741, 40%   VL ~4500 (initial labs)
08/2010 - CD4 751, 41%   VL ~3000 (one month after initial labs)
09/2010 - CD4 732, 40%   VL ~2000
10/2010 - CD4 738, 40%   VL < 1000
11/2010 - CD4 761, 41%   VL 430
12/2010 - CD4 758, 41%   VL 194
01/2011 - CD4 745, 40%   VL 103
02/2011 - CD4 782, 41%   VL 77
03/2011 - CD4 763, 41%   VL < 50 / UD
04/2011 - CD4 758, 41%,  VL < 50 / UD
05/2011 - CD4 761, 41%   VL < 50 / UD
09/2011 - still UD, still strong
06/2013 - still UD, never a blip

Never taken any therapy/meds

Offline Miss Philicia

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  • Posts: 24,209
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2010, 08:43:50 AM »
Again, this is new to me so forgive me for not being on the up and up. I'm still at the "what the fuck" stage trying to figure out the rules and what happens from here. However the reality is, at least for the dredges of the internet dating sites, it's pretty slim pickings. Now maybe it's just that the women you reference have sworn off men or don't bother signing up or whatever. And I freely admit I'm in zero condition to start dating much less meeting people new in that sort of environment. But I was trying to figure out the "what might the future hold for me" question and it's rather depressing.

Given that quite a few women are infected by a man they trusted who was fucking around and living a lie behind their back, then meeting another guy who is +, well, doesn't bode well for the new guy regardless of his story.

As a gay man (regardless of my screen name) I won't give you pointers on what internet dating site to locate this volume of HIV+ women, you'll have to sort that out on your own in due time.  But I must say sure you are off base on HIV+ women holding some spiteful eternal grudge against they're infector that they then proceed to psychologically project on to other men -- that's a very fucked up analysis frankly, and rather diminishes the mental capacity of your average infected women. 

They move on with the issue just like you eventually will -- and you're right, since you are recently infected you have no business entering the dating field until your mind is in the right place.  But rest assured, people go on in life and meet people, fall in love, get married, and have kids.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline mpositive

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  • Posts: 298
Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2010, 09:43:27 AM »
Personally, I could not imagine having sexual relations with someone, protected or not, and not disclosing first.  I can't even understand why anyone would think that it is not the person's right to know that and decide if they want to take any risk at all with you.  Condoms greatly reduce the risk sure, but a broken condom, and I have had broken condoms, are still a risk and I feel, for me, it would be selfish and downright wrong to do so.  However, that is my choice and my opinion.

Aurora, my brother, i understand you totally.  Last time I made the following comment here, I got berated by many.  Being a heterosexual single guy with HIV SUCKS big time!  By the way, being a Caucasian heterosexual single guy in this circle is even more isolating. 
There are a ton of Gay groups, Women;s groups, African American groups, Latino groups, Transsexual/Transvestite groups...however, as a Heterosexual single HIV+ guy....geesh, you are the outcast.  Certainly this is by design, as those communities are more heavily effected, but to an individual like myself, it still sucks. 
By the way, that's not to say that folks, especially here, are not incredibly supportive and truly a blessing, because they really are.  I can't even name them all, so better i don't even try.  These folks here, whatever their orientation, I could care less, are fantastic! 
Aurora, hang in there and look on the bright side (sorta), we (heterosexual single male) may be in higher demand with the single women in our "community".   :)  :)

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2010, 09:57:47 AM »
Again, this is new to me so forgive me for not being on the up and up. I'm still at the "what the fuck" stage trying to figure out the rules and what happens from here. However the reality is, at least for the dredges of the internet dating sites, it's pretty slim pickings. Now maybe it's just that the women you reference have sworn off men or don't bother signing up or whatever. And I freely admit I'm in zero condition to start dating much less meeting people new in that sort of environment. But I was trying to figure out the "what might the future hold for me" question and it's rather depressing.

So you're just now starting to handle yourself and you're worrying about a future hypothetical?  You need to focus on yourself for a while and not go into an anxiety meltdown over what the future may hold.  This is of course only my advice.  I also think you shouldn't imagine HIV+ women on dating sites as scraping the bottom of the barrel, which is how I interpreted your last comment there.  If you look eventually you'll find some woman who either is or is not HIV+ who may want to date you and go from there.  Stop worrying about something you don't have to at this moment.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2010, 10:10:55 AM »
Again, this is new to me so forgive me for not being on the up and up. I'm still at the "what the fuck" stage trying to figure out the rules and what happens from here. However the reality is, at least for the dredges of the internet dating sites, it's pretty slim pickings. Now maybe it's just that the women you reference have sworn off men or don't bother signing up or whatever. And I freely admit I'm in zero condition to start dating much less meeting people new in that sort of environment. But I was trying to figure out the "what might the future hold for me" question and it's rather depressing.

It may depend on your location.  I dated 4 women before I met my wife and I had only been positive for close to two years, those were the ones I had sexual relationships with and all were positive.  Just like when I was negative, I had some bad luck as well as some good luck.   I had a female friend who was negative who didn't have any qualms about having sex with me, but I declined because she was married.  This was of course before I was married. :D  Gotta make sure I throw that in there cuz the wifey will see it.lol  Love ya babe....

Anyways my point is you have to put yourself out there.  And I will tell you this, a positive woman is just like a negative one in that she doesn't want some hardluck chuck who is feeling sorry for himself.  Not implying that you do, just letting you know a woman's attraction towards a man remains the same, positive or not.  

I'll be honest, I know how you feel.... these are the same exact things I had concerns about.  That first year after my diagnosis I never thought where I am now with my life was possible, but you know what.... it sure came easy once I got my head out of the sand.

Between you and me, there is a hot 57 year old down in Miami, grandmother of 3 who may still have a profile on POZ.  She poses in her night gown and makes it clear she only wants sex.  She is extremely intelligent and owns her own business....  if you're ever bored you should give her a shout.

No, I never hit it.  She looked too much like my mom.  I know you were wondering though....

Skeebo
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline MarcoPoz

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Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #28 on: November 01, 2010, 02:04:10 PM »

Given that quite a few women are infected by a man they trusted who was fucking around and living a lie behind their back, then meeting another guy who is +, well, doesn't bode well for the new guy regardless of his story.

Well, yes--this was my experience as well when first going to support groups and talking to HIV positive women.  Especially newly diagnosed women.  But, just like most of us grow in our acceptance of living with HIV, many of these women I met during that time have dealt with these issues.  I think that the longer we blame others for our infection--regardless of mode of transmission--the longer we are disempowered in our ownership of a life with HIV.

At first--I didn't disclose my HIV status to anyone unless we were gonna fuck.  Now I disclose my status in many different situations.

Offline eric48

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Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #29 on: November 01, 2010, 05:39:01 PM »
Everyone lies (quted from Dr House MD) ;-)

Even when I was neg, if my partner was not confortable with condoms, I would insist, saying that I am + ...

Eric
NVP/ABC/3TC/... UD; CD4 > 1000; CD4/CD8 ~ 2.0   safety stock : 3 months (2013: FOTO= 5d. ON 2d. OFF)

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #30 on: November 01, 2010, 09:12:34 PM »

Even when I was neg, if my partner was not confortable with condoms, I would insist, saying that I am + ...

Eric

That worked out well, didn't it?
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline ElZorro

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Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #31 on: November 01, 2010, 09:20:04 PM »
That worked out well, didn't it?

ouch!  :P

Offline Zohar

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Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #32 on: November 01, 2010, 09:37:19 PM »
That worked out well, didn't it?

It would be good if you could drop the acid barbs. It's not conducive to people opening up which, after all, is what disclosure is all about.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 08:32:43 AM by Zohar »
''Poor is the man whose pleasures depend on the permission of another.''

Offline ElZorro

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Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #33 on: November 01, 2010, 09:52:47 PM »
Aurora, hang in there and look on the bright side (sorta), we (heterosexual single male) may be in higher demand with the single women in our "community".   :)  :)

Now that's what I call a "positive" attitude! Bravo to you, M!  :)

Online Jeff G

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Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #34 on: November 01, 2010, 11:10:52 PM »
Now that's what I call a "positive" attitude! Bravo to you, M!  :)

  ;D
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 11:13:44 PM by jg1962 »

Offline David Evans

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Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2010, 12:22:52 AM »
Zohar - I don't think you meant to stir things up with your original post, but please do as a previous poster suggested and conduct a search under "disclosure." There are numerous threads and you'll be able to see how many got quite contentious.

So far, this one has remained largely civil, but the acid has gotten a bit personal in a couple of places. We'll be watching this as it develops.

-David
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Offline Cliff

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Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2010, 02:30:14 AM »
I think maybe you want to imagine there are black and white dos and donts, rights and wrongs, in this issue and you know what, my two cents is that its a very grey subtle issue.
Yes, very grey. 

Right or wrong, always disclosing doesn't happen overnight and for some people it may never happen.  It takes a lot of courage to disclose and for many, that courage doesn't come from day one of your diagnosis.  And it certainly doesn't help, when all you get is a piece of paper saying your positive and a referral to a doctor, who is probably great at treating the physical aspects of the disease but not so great at the mental stuff.

Offline mecch

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Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #37 on: November 02, 2010, 03:54:59 AM »
The OP would get more results for his survey if enough people would bother to answer his question.  But there are kind of two questions impacted in one, so the OP didn't help the clarity of it all.

Did your opinion about disclosure change after knowing you were HIV+?  Q which the OP further complicates with the "value judgement" that HIV+ people should always disclose.  So was that value part of your opinion before and/or after being HIV+?  

Responses on tangential issues are certainly interesting enough and suck us in, but don't answer the question.

So Elf and I answered by saying when we were HIV- we didn't expect HIV+ people to always disclose.  And then Elf as HIV+ said he hasn't had sex, and I as HIV+ say I dont expect (myself or) other HIV+ people to always disclose - thus my opinion hasn't changed.  

Some people manage an answer to half the question for one half of the before / after scenario.

Another full answer might be
"I didn't expect HIV+ people to always disclose when I was HIV-, but now that I am HIV+ I always disclose and would like other HIV+ people to do so".   That would be a change in opinion.

Or
"When I was HIV-, I wanted HIV+ people to always disclose. Now that I am HIV+, my opinion is the same. (And i always disclose..., too...)"   That would be no change in opinion.

Its actually a question about personal ethics, combined with what we demand for community ethics.  
_____________

The question(s) is simple enough to answer.  The debate prompting the question is not simple.

Its not the easiest topic to debate on the strict question of ethics - especially since the ramifications of disclosure/nondisclosure are so compelling (at least to some people) and they are also one of the reasons the question of ethics is discussed in the first place.  

It may not be a debate one can have casually on an international discussion board, because its difficult to take in all the local considerations on the debate.  For example, I would expect HIV- heterosexuals to have higher expectation that an HIV+ should always disclose, than expectations held by HIV- homosexuals (like myself until recently) who matured in a time when it was drummed into our heads year after year after year that any partner could be HIV+ so protect your self - be responsibly for your own health, etc etc.

Or it would be logical for an HIV- person to expect an HIV+ person always discloses, if the context is a state in which disclosure is legally mandated.  If the HIV- person thinks that people should respects laws and if the HIV- person thinks its a good law.  Or if the HIV- person thinks "the other is expected to disclose" is an effective means of personal safer sex and/or society-wide prevention.

etc etc etc.  One land mine after another.

But the original question isn't so difficult to answer, is it.

« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 04:47:49 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #38 on: November 02, 2010, 07:42:10 AM »
The OP would get more results for his survey if enough people would bother to answer his question.  But there are kind of two questions impacted in one, so the OP didn't help the clarity of it all.

Did your opinion about disclosure change after knowing you were HIV+?  Q which the OP further complicates with the "value judgement" that HIV+ people should always disclose.  So was that value part of your opinion before and/or after being HIV+?  

Responses on tangential issues are certainly interesting enough and suck us in, but don't answer the question.

So Elf and I answered by saying when we were HIV- we didn't expect HIV+ people to always disclose.  And then Elf as HIV+ said he hasn't had sex, and I as HIV+ say I dont expect (myself or) other HIV+ people to always disclose - thus my opinion hasn't changed.  

Some people manage an answer to half the question for one half of the before / after scenario.

Another full answer might be
"I didn't expect HIV+ people to always disclose when I was HIV-, but now that I am HIV+ I always disclose and would like other HIV+ people to do so".   That would be a change in opinion.

Or
"When I was HIV-, I wanted HIV+ people to always disclose. Now that I am HIV+, my opinion is the same. (And i always disclose..., too...)"   That would be no change in opinion.

Its actually a question about personal ethics, combined with what we demand for community ethics.  
_____________

The question(s) is simple enough to answer.  The debate prompting the question is not simple.

Its not the easiest topic to debate on the strict question of ethics - especially since the ramifications of disclosure/nondisclosure are so compelling (at least to some people) and they are also one of the reasons the question of ethics is discussed in the first place.  

It may not be a debate one can have casually on an international discussion board, because its difficult to take in all the local considerations on the debate.  For example, I would expect HIV- heterosexuals to have higher expectation that an HIV+ should always disclose, than expectations held by HIV- homosexuals (like myself until recently) who matured in a time when it was drummed into our heads year after year after year that any partner could be HIV+ so protect your self - be responsibly for your own health, etc etc.

Or it would be logical for an HIV- person to expect an HIV+ person always discloses, if the context is a state in which disclosure is legally mandated.  If the HIV- person thinks that people should respects laws and if the HIV- person thinks its a good law.  Or if the HIV- person thinks "the other is expected to disclose" is an effective means of personal safer sex and/or society-wide prevention.

etc etc etc.  One land mine after another.

But the original question isn't so difficult to answer, is it.



So in other words you just want us to answer with either a "yes" or "no"?  How's that apartment of yours coming along?
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Zohar

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Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #39 on: November 02, 2010, 08:21:27 AM »
I started this discussion because on another website I'm a member of someone started a thread about whether to fnish with someone they'd recently started dating because they'd just found out their new partner was positive.

The discussion, inevitably progressed onto disclosure and when it should take place and I was struck by how so many negative people were insisting they should always be told. It a became very 'them and us' and I ended up wondering how many of those people demanding disclosure woud actually do so themselves if they ever became positive; perhaps some would but I don't for really believe that it would be 100%.

So, no. I definitely didn't start this thread 'to stir up trouble' and am genuinely interested exploring the (artificial?) gulf that appears to sometimes exist between negative and positive people, in the hope that, ultimately,  it can one day be bridged.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 08:29:30 AM by Zohar »
''Poor is the man whose pleasures depend on the permission of another.''

Offline woodshere

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Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #40 on: November 02, 2010, 01:00:20 PM »
If an HIV+ person is sexually active and not disclosing, I doubt many are going to admit it on a public website due to legal issues.

I also believe disclosing to someone you're dating and just a hook up are 2 different situations.  The hook up is a yes, the dating just depends on the situation as to when.  One guy I dated I decided we weren't going to be sexually active and didn't disclose.  Another we went out a few times and when it started to get into some heavy making out, I would make an excuse to leave.  Finally, I told, we had sex and then never heard from him (and take my word it wasn't because I was a bad fuck...:))  The other guy it came up in the conversation within the first 15 mins and I disclosed.  We dated but never had sex.  Each situation and the outcomes are different.  I don't have a clear cut time, it depends. 
"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it."   Nelson Mandela

Offline BT65

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Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2010, 03:16:29 PM »
I stand in moral judgment of no one.

I believe my first husband infected me, but I was never angry at him for that.  I was angry at him for dying when I was in treatment in '89.  I knew he was screwing around.  Though at the time, HIV was just beginning to be a big deal around here, so I never really would have guessed I was infected.  But, I was not angry.  I had a lot of high risk behavior in my earlier days, and was always coming down with something.

I've been with 3 men, and 1 woman since testing poz (21 years ago), one of them poz, so of course we didn't use condoms, the other three not poz.  The men refused to wear condoms, but never tested poz.  The woman and I never used any dental dams, or saran wrap, and she never tested poz either. And yes, they all knew about me being poz.
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline mannymartinez

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Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2010, 04:07:23 PM »
hey  indiana  girl   how  r  u  send me  your  email i ll  send  u pictures

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2010, 04:16:42 PM »
Manny, neither this thread nor this Forum is a site for looking for dates. Please don't attempt to turn it into that. There are POZ personals and other sites for that.

Thanks for your cooperation. 
Andy Velez

Offline mecch

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Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2010, 04:37:06 PM »
I started this discussion because on another website I'm a member of someone started a thread about whether to fnish with someone they'd recently started dating because they'd just found out their new partner was positive.

The discussion, inevitably progressed onto disclosure and when it should take place and I was struck by how so many negative people were insisting they should always be told. It a became very 'them and us' and I ended up wondering how many of those people demanding disclosure woud actually do so themselves if they ever became positive; perhaps some would but I don't for really believe that it would be 100%.

So, no. I definitely didn't start this thread 'to stir up trouble' and am genuinely interested exploring the (artificial?) gulf that appears to sometimes exist between negative and positive people, in the hope that, ultimately,  it can one day be bridged.

I don't think you're starting trouble.  There's some history in the forum of disclosure threads going downhill and turning into the kind of thing - us and them - that you saw on your other forum. But the us and them positions will be all HIV+ people on various sides of the ethics.

I dont know about an artificial or real gulf between + and -   
It seems counterproductive on your part to construct that. 
Since I see, as other report here, the complete continuum of possible ethics on this disclosure issue, and + or - people can be anywhere on the continuum.  Though yeah, a lot of - people say they want to know. 


( I dunno, since the early 90's, a guy telling me he was HIV+ never resulted in me deciding not to screw or date someone.  It did freak me out in the late 80's, but I still screwed. I never ever expected disclosure in casual screwing or casual dating.  Though my ethics also included: if I asked, then the person should tell the truth.  In the early 90's I got super pissed at a bf who lied for a few years, when I asked the question. )

Skeebo - no, people should post whatever tangents, but also keep in mind the relativity of all comments. And also try to answer the OPs question. 

Woodshere - but keep in mind that there are no legal issues in many places about not disclosing. Only some places have laws criminalizing non-disclosure.  Less than the number of places that have laws criminalizing transmission.



“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Joe K

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Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2010, 09:26:13 PM »
I find discussions regarding disclosure to be difficult, not because of the subject, but because the focus is always put on the wrong party. I can never dictate what another person does. I cannot tell others how they must think, nor how they must feel. No way, no how, so why bother trying? What I can do however, is to conduct myself according to my own beliefs, which compel me to always disclose, when intimacy is involved, because without that disclosure, the other partner cannot make an informed decision. If I am sexually attracted to someone and since there is no such thing as 100% safe sex, I have no option, but to disclose, because to me, it is the right thing to do.

Whenever I face issues, that at first, appear delicate or difficult, I simply ask myself how I would want to be treated and then just do it. What others do or think, is really irrelevant, or should be, to how you choose to conduct yourself. Ultimately, I am only responsible for me, myself and I.


Offline mecch

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Re: Disclosure - has your opinion changed?
« Reply #46 on: November 03, 2010, 05:08:27 PM »
That's a wonderful way to handle the dilemma.  ;D
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

 


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