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Author Topic: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?  (Read 9468 times)

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Offline jason83

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Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« on: October 22, 2010, 11:17:23 AM »
I'm confused - I've read a lot on these forums and seems like you guys agree with a lot of what the CDC says with regards to HIV...but I did read that the CDC says kissing when infected with HIV should be avoided and is a potential risk...and that people have been infected via this route...but then you guys go on to say that kissing is NO risk...I'm terrified...about a year and a half ago I made out with an escort for like 5 minutes...2 weeks later I had a horrible virus with high fever, strep like illness, mono-like, night sweats, headache, chills, etc...this lasted about a week - worst illness like nothing I've ever had before...my doctor said it wasn't strep or mono which really freaked me out...I feel that this was HIV ARS - I seemed to have all the symptoms at the perfect timing...I have tested negative for HIV 1 via antibody and rapid tests out to about 3 weeks ago which is over a year and a half after the encounter...this must be a rare strain or subtype or HIV 2...what do you guys think?

Jason

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2010, 11:28:55 AM »
You don't have HIV.
1. You didn't have a risk.
2. Had you had a risk a 3 month test would have been conclusive and you tested a year and a half later. 

Offline jason83

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Re: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2010, 11:36:49 AM »
Thanks rapid,

But you still didn't answer my question as to why the CDC says its a risk but you guys say it's not...I don't get it...

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2010, 01:02:42 PM »
The CDC is covering its butt. Theoretically anything other than sex with your own hand could be risky.

But in the real world of HIV we know that sexual risk for HIV is about unprotected vaginal and anal intercourse. Everything else falls into the theoretically risky category. Use condoms everytime for intercourse and you will be well protected.
Andy Velez

Offline Ann

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Re: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2010, 07:02:41 AM »
Jason,

If you want to know why the CDC says some of the incorrect things they do, I suggest you contact them. I can't figure them out either.

Not only is saliva not infectious, but it also contains over a dozen different proteins and enzymes that damage hiv and render it unable to infect. Those are the top two reasons why kissing is not and never has been a risk for hiv infection.

I'm hiv positive and I confidently kiss anyone I please - well, anyone who also wants to kiss me anyway! And no, there's no shortage and none of them have ended up positive because of it. :)

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jason83

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Re: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2010, 01:02:31 PM »
Ann,

Thanks for explaining that to me...it helps. What if there is blood in the persons mouth doing the kissing? I have never had very good oral hygiene so I know my mouth would be a great place for viruses/bacterial infections...so, what if she was bleeding and I had open sores or something? How would that affect the transmission? Would it take a lot of blood? a little blood? I'm just not 100% sold because everywhere I read it says that it takes just one single HIV virus to infect someone...so, if someone was bleeding and one virus found its way into a cut in someones mouth then they would be infected...I don't get how this doesn't happen if it's that easy for HIV to infect...

Offline Ann

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Re: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2010, 01:23:22 PM »
Jason,

Unless you're in the habit of repeatedly punching a person in the mouth before you kiss them, there could not possibly be enough blood present to be a concern. Kissing is not a risk for hiv infection no matter what details you can think of to add.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jason83

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Re: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2010, 02:28:29 PM »
You know I NEVER thought kissing was a risk...but then i went to thebody.com where Dr. Bob who is an HIV specialist talked about tonsils and how they are lymph nodes and they make a great spot for catching viruses such as HIV because of the type of tissue they are or something like that...so wouldn't that mean that if HIV infected blood touched the tonsils or could it get massaged into the tonsils through intense kissing and thus infect the cells in the tonsils? I'm so confused!!! and worried...

Offline Ann

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Re: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2010, 02:32:01 PM »
Jason,

Dr Bob is another one who I wonder where they come up with some of their ideas. The man should know better.

As I said to you before, kissing IS NOT A RISK for hiv no matter what details you want to add into the mix, including tonsils. Why should tonsils make the slightest difference when saliva isn't infectious? And if you're thinking "but, but, but, blood....", stop it and re-read what I wrote to you earlier about blood.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jason83

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Re: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2010, 02:51:28 PM »
Ann,

I'm not trying to argue with you but this is what the CDC says about kissing...

"It depends on the type of kissing. There is no risk from closed-mouth kissing.

There are extremely rare cases of HIV being transmitted via deep “French” kissing but in each case, infected blood was exchanged due to bleeding gums or sores in the mouth. Because of this remote risk, it is recommended that individuals who are HIV-infected avoid deep, open-mouth “French” kissing with a non-infected partner, as there is a potential risk of transferring infected blood. Summary:

    * There is no risk of transmission closed-mouth kissing.
    * There is a remote risk from deep, open-mouth kissing if there are sores or bleeding gums and blood is exchanged. Therefore, persons living with HIV should avoid this behavior with a non-infected partner."

They also go on to say that if you test negative for HIV 1 but have symptoms of HIV that you should be tested for HIV 2...well, I thought I was tested for HIV 2 but I come to find out that the website that I went through only tested for HIV 1 and not 2 even though the test said so...I got tested through my doc and it said HIV 1/O/2 but I don't even know if I was tested for O and 2...now I'm really worried that maybe the illness I had was just an opportunistic infection of HIV 2 or something and I just haven't tested positive...

I wish I could just PUT THIS BEHIND ME!!!

I'm sorry...I know I'm a pain...

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2010, 03:30:38 PM »
Ann,

I'm not trying to argue with you but this is what the CDC says about kissing...

"It depends on the type of kissing. There is no risk from closed-mouth kissing.

There are extremely rare cases of HIV being transmitted via deep “French” kissing but in each case, infected blood was exchanged due to bleeding gums or sores in the mouth. Because of this remote risk, it is recommended that individuals who are HIV-infected avoid deep, open-mouth “French” kissing with a non-infected partner, as there is a potential risk of transferring infected blood. Summary:

    * There is no risk of transmission closed-mouth kissing.
    * There is a remote risk from deep, open-mouth kissing if there are sores or bleeding gums and blood is exchanged. Therefore, persons living with HIV should avoid this behavior with a non-infected partner."

They also go on to say that if you test negative for HIV 1 but have symptoms of HIV that you should be tested for HIV 2...well, I thought I was tested for HIV 2 but I come to find out that the website that I went through only tested for HIV 1 and not 2 even though the test said so...I got tested through my doc and it said HIV 1/O/2 but I don't even know if I was tested for O and 2...now I'm really worried that maybe the illness I had was just an opportunistic infection of HIV 2 or something and I just haven't tested positive...

I wish I could just PUT THIS BEHIND ME!!!

I'm sorry...I know I'm a pain...

Why not find more up to date information than something that was posted in the early 80's

Offline jason83

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Re: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2010, 04:18:17 PM »
well isn't it the cdc's job to update things like this? Why do you assume that's from the early 80's? And has it really been proven that HIV is NOT transmitted through french kissing?

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2010, 04:22:54 PM »
Jason, it is not our job to get the CDC or any other site into shape. We have enough work to do without getting on to that slippery slope.

We tell you what we know from science based information and longterm experience. I've never known of a confirmed case of transmission through kissing.

You need to know that you are not going to be allowed to continue to return and argue and wring your hands so to speak over non-risks. If you do that you're going to soon find yourself getting a 28 day Time Out from the site. Consider yourself warned.
Andy Velez

Offline jason83

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Re: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2010, 04:38:26 PM »
Andy,

Sorry - not trying to step on anybody's toes here...that wasn't the ONLY risk I had in the past...I had a few unprotected encounters with girls...I just wonder if the illness I had could have been HIV related...whether it was HIV ARS or progressed HIV...do you think I should get tested for HIV 2? I honestly don't know if I've been tested for that or not...they say you should get tested for HIV 2 if you've been with someone who has HIV 2 or if that person had sex with someone who had HIV 2...I mean how are you supposed to know that after a one time hookup? I just want to be 100% sure that my symptoms were not/are not related to HIV in anyway...what do you think?

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2010, 04:47:37 PM »
Now you are throwing other things into the mix, Jason.

If you have ever had unprotected vaginal or anal intercourse and never tested for HIV at 13 weeks, then you need to get tested. Otherwise this is just more unnecessary handwringing on your part.

Andy Velez

Offline jason83

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Re: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2010, 05:17:29 PM »
my last possible encounter was 2 years ago...i had a negative hiv 1 test at 2 years post exposure...but i continue to have HIV like symptoms...and I don't think I was tested for HIV 2 or the outliers or other subtypes...i don't know where i need to go from here? i've had molluscum, blurry vision, tingling toes and hands, my scalp is flakey, thinning of my legs, i've gotten fat like really bad in my belly - i only weight 170 lbs and i'm 5'11"!!! but it's all in my stomach...i mean what else could be causing this???

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2010, 05:20:04 PM »
You're HIV negative. Period. End of story.

Stop practicing medicine on yourself and self diagnosing without a license. It's bad for your health. If you have symptoms that are bothering you then discuss them with your doctor. We can't diagnose your symptoms and neither can you.
Andy Velez

Offline jason83

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Re: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2010, 05:39:03 PM »
So is the idea of rare strains or subtypes that people may not know about but be infected real? Or can I just put HIV behind me and be confident going on with my life that I can have unprotected sex with my fiance?

Offline jason83

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Re: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2010, 10:29:04 AM »
Anyone?

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2010, 10:59:51 AM »
As a general rule we always suggest that only if a couple is committed to a securely monogamous relationship and have tested negative together can they safely give up using condoms for intercourse.

If that fits your relationship then yes, you two can dispense with using condoms.
Andy Velez

Offline jason83

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Re: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2010, 09:10:10 PM »
we were tested both negative...don't my symptoms and past illnesses alarm you though? It seems like everything I had or still have seem to point to only one thing and that's HIV...I just don't want to infect her...that would crush me and I could never forgive myself...

Offline Ann

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Re: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2010, 04:46:17 AM »
Jason,

No, I don't find your symptoms alarming. If YOU find them alarming, go see a doctor and find out what is causing them. Whatever that may be, you have conclusively ruled hiv out of the picture. YOU DO NOT HAVE HIV.

I'm giving you that time out you've been warned about. Do not attempt to create a new account to get around your time out because if you do, you will be permanently banned.

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline jason83

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Re: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2010, 01:40:44 AM »
So,

I've been reading a lot about new virus types that will come out eventually, etc...how do we who have experience REAL symptoms and ARS symptoms know that we dont have a new subtype that the tests just don't pick up? I mean I've experienced a myriad of real symptoms over time here and now add full body twitching and muscle spasms to that...all the symptoms I've had seem to relate to one thing and one thing only...HIV...that's all I find when I look up my symptoms...I've gone to several different doctors who all do the same thing...blow me off...so how can I be assured that this isnt some strain of HIV that just isn't being picked up on the tests???

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2010, 02:00:24 AM »
Insofar as my research can tell, there have been no new reported, much less documented strains of HIV in five years. Ten years, insofar as published confirmation is concerned.

*edited to add- Moreover, if HIV was to evolve into a pathogen that could be spread through kissing, the human race would be in peril. That is not an evolution or mutation. That is a transformation on the molecular level.

« Last Edit: December 09, 2010, 02:02:40 AM by jkinatl2 »
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Ann

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Re: Why does CDC say kissing is a risk?
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2010, 06:39:00 AM »
Jason,

You are still not going to be allowed to use this forum to question your negative hiv status. You don't have hiv.

Perhaps it's time you sought therapy to find out why you cannot accept your negative hiv status. We cannot help you with that here.

If you keep coming back with more of the same nonsense, you will be given a second time out and this one will last for 56 days.

PLEASE CONSIDER YOURSELF WARNED!!!

Ann
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

 


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