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Author Topic: Reinfection?  (Read 8313 times)

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Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Reinfection?
« Reply #50 on: October 18, 2010, 01:29:30 AM »
if you re-read the original post, keeping in mind the language difference going on, it can be read as a hypothetical. And Sanitex did come back within 48hrs to dispel us of the wrong interpretation of his bad grammar and incorrect use of the English language. ;)

This certainly is not the first time Sanitex has been misunderstood by members or that members have jumped to the wrong conclusions about what Sanitex was trying to say. I'd bet that it won't be the last time one of his posts is misunderstood either. LOL :D

Sadly, in this portion of the forums, the language is the only thing we have to go on, emoticons notwithstanding.

As for the rest of your post, I too wold enjoy seeing the statistics back up the claims of several members of this forum. Long term studies of sexually active HIV positive serodiscordant couples do not predate the advent of HAART, so any really credible study would have to be less than fifteen years old, and not rely solely on patient report.

This data seems to be in rather short supply, though I doubt it will alter significantly when more data is infused.

re-infection is, if not theoretical, an odd enough situation as to not concern most people. Especially if one is concerned about acquiring drug resistance.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Online leatherman

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Re: Reinfection?
« Reply #51 on: October 18, 2010, 01:38:23 AM »
Long term studies of sexually active HIV positive serodiscordant couples do not predate the advent of HAART, so any really credible study would have to be less than fifteen years old, and not rely solely on patient report.
i would be happy to see short term studies showing me that hiv positive med-adherent seroconcordant couples are having HAART failure. ;)
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline camille07

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Re: Reinfection?
« Reply #52 on: October 18, 2010, 07:13:17 AM »
After I found out I had been infected,  I had had been sexually active with my partner without a  condom.  I was not aware of any dangers or problems that might arise.  This (reinfection or tolerence to meds) was not explained by my original doctor. My partner was on Haart (one month only) when this occurred.  It was a month into my diagnosis and I was not educated.  I also had not found this wonderful site.

But here's what happened.  I now have drug resistance to one drug (can't recall after 2 years).  I was given a tolerance test before I was started on Haart.  My current doctor explained that my resistance drug was part of my partner's drug combo.  My doctor, Dr. Kathleen Casey, one of the better doctors in the area* broke down the issues of drug tolerance.  *I mention this for the clarification that is not my local gp or dingle berry doctor making this call.

(I don't know what his vl was at the time, since he was only into his therapy for one month.  I would also like to find out what drug I'm resistant to since this is brought up a few times amongst this post.)

Even though the origins of this post are hypothetical, I hope this is somehow relevant.

Camms


« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 07:24:26 AM by camille07 »

Offline klipsch

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Re: Reinfection?
« Reply #53 on: October 18, 2010, 12:32:38 PM »
I'm gonna throw myself on the sword here and say this very clearly. If I'm reading correctly that there are individuals that would actually advocate anything less than barrier use sex as  Risk Free Behavior...based solely on hard drives full of "scientific studies"...I must have stumbled smack dab into the original breeding ground of the Village Idiot.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 12:43:28 PM by klipsch »
when shit has value...the poor will be born without assholes...

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Reinfection?
« Reply #54 on: October 18, 2010, 12:45:28 PM »
I'm gonna throw myself on the sword here and say this very clearly. If I'm reading correctly that there are individuals that would actually advocate anything less than barrier use sex as  Risk Free Behavior...based solely on hard drives full of "scientific studies"...I must have stumbled smack dab into the original breeding ground of the Village Idiot.
There is no need for you to spam the forums.

Offline klipsch

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Re: Reinfection?
« Reply #55 on: October 18, 2010, 12:50:21 PM »
There is no need for you to spam the forums.

Do you mean by posting the same comment in two different threads that I'm active in...or by voicing my opinion?
when shit has value...the poor will be born without assholes...

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Reinfection?
« Reply #56 on: October 18, 2010, 12:52:10 PM »
I'm gonna throw myself on the sword here and say this very clearly. If I'm reading correctly that there are individuals that would actually advocate anything less than barrier use sex as  Risk Free Behavior...based solely on hard drives full of "scientific studies"...I must have stumbled smack dab into the original breeding ground of the Village Idiot.

Nope, I don't think anyone has done this in this thread either. did you mean to post this in both threads?

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Reinfection?
« Reply #57 on: October 18, 2010, 12:54:08 PM »

Do you mean by posting the same comment in two different threads that I'm active in...or by voicing my opinion?

I daresay that in this thread at the very least, your interpretation is incorrect.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Online leatherman

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Re: Reinfection?
« Reply #58 on: October 18, 2010, 01:02:33 PM »
Do you mean by posting the same comment in two different threads that I'm active in...or by voicing my opinion?
both. ;)
because, besides double posting :D, while you may view your comments as "voicing your opinion", your opinion actually reads much more like an insult as you are casting aspersions upon all the members by referring to us collectively as the "breeding ground for the village idiot".

may I ask, in trying to figure out what you meant, why you scoff at "hard drives of scientific studies"? I don't necessarily take them at face value myself as sometimes these studies have flaws; but on the whole I tend to think that scientific studies do help us find more facts about many issues.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline klipsch

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Re: Reinfection?
« Reply #59 on: October 18, 2010, 01:20:18 PM »
both. ;)
because, besides double posting :D, while you may view your comments as "voicing your opinion", your opinion actually reads much more like an insult as you are casting aspersions upon all the members by referring to us collectively as the "breeding ground for the village idiot".

may I ask, in trying to figure out what you meant, why you scoff at "hard drives of scientific studies"? I don't necessarily take them at face value myself as sometimes these studies have flaws; but on the whole I tend to think that scientific studies do help us find more facts about many issues.

That comment is directed towards anybody that feels that they are not acting irresponsibly by stating that oral sex is not risky sexual behavior in regards to potentially contracting or spreading the HIV virus. People come to this board to possibly find answers to their questions. By somebody stating their belief based on what they have read, is that there are barrier free sexual behaviors that are completely risks free...they may not be pulling the trigger...but they're certainly supplying the bullets for the gun.
If this wasn't the internet and somebody made those statements to others in my presence...I'd consider hitting them with a bat across their kneecaps.
 
when shit has value...the poor will be born without assholes...

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Reinfection?
« Reply #60 on: October 18, 2010, 01:20:42 PM »
both. ;)
because, besides double posting :D, while you may view your comments as "voicing your opinion", your opinion actually reads much more like an insult as you are casting aspersions upon all the members by referring to us collectively as the "breeding ground for the village idiot".

may I ask, in trying to figure out what you meant, why you scoff at "hard drives of scientific studies"? I don't necessarily take them at face value myself as sometimes these studies have flaws; but on the whole I tend to think that scientific studies do help us find more facts about many issues.

Thank you for that. I am often puzzled at the cognitive dissonance necessary to dismiss scientific evidence when it does not suit a person's paradigm, yet embrace it when, in the case of HIV medication, it literally saves a person's life.

Many of the same studies that have determined the mechanism of HIV infection - studies which have directly lead to highly effective therapies - have also been used to determine how, precisely, HIV is transmitted. It's much of the same science.

Is the poster in question claiming that HIV does not, in fact, attach to specific dendritic cells and specific white blood cells? Is the poster offering evidence to broaden this transmission vector?

In the case of reinfection, as Newt as astutely said in the past, if it does happen, it happens extremely rarely. As for people wishing to conceive, that is certainly not a no-risk situation. The risk can be minimized if specific protocols are followed, and I merely pointed out that it has been successful on these forums in the past.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Reinfection?
« Reply #61 on: October 18, 2010, 01:34:34 PM »
That comment is directed towards anybody that feels that they are not acting irresponsibly by stating that oral sex is not risky sexual behavior in regards to potentially contracting or spreading the HIV virus. People come to this board to possibly find answers to their questions. By somebody stating their belief based on what they have read, is that there are barrier free sexual behaviors that are completely risks free...they may not be pulling the trigger...but they're certainly supplying the bullets for the gun.
If this wasn't the internet and somebody made those statements to others in my presence...I'd consider hitting them with a bat across their kneecaps.
 


how is this relevant to reinfection?

we make every decision regarding HIV based on "what we read." I mean, unless you are making your own HIV meds.

also, your hostile tone is causing me to infer that no amount of evidence will be sufficient. Please do not continue to address this forum as persons you would bash in the kneecaps with a baseball bat.

Like I said, if you disagree with the Lessons section on HIV transmission, which I do not deviate from in my postings, then petition to have them changed. If you disagree with my statements, I suppose you could place me on ignore, but you seem to want to silence them altogether.

This is, of course, merely based on what I have read in your posting.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline klipsch

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Re: Reinfection?
« Reply #62 on: October 18, 2010, 01:53:43 PM »
how is this relevant to reinfection?

we make every decision regarding HIV based on "what we read." I mean, unless you are making your own HIV meds.

also, your hostile tone is causing me to infer that no amount of evidence will be sufficient. Please do not continue to address this forum as persons you would bash in the kneecaps with a baseball bat.

Like I said, if you disagree with the Lessons section on HIV transmission, which I do not deviate from in my postings, then petition to have them changed. If you disagree with my statements, I suppose you could place me on ignore, but you seem to want to silence them altogether.

This is, of course, merely based on what I have read in your posting.



My original question was referring to the possibility of reinfection through performing cunnilingus on an infected woman. You stated "submit it is the same of acquiring HIV through cunnilingus. as close to zero as medical science will allow." Based on that statement and my own personal experience...I feel that your not a lot different than the denialist that I'm just recently becoming aware of.
Interesting that I don't find that same information being publicized to the general public by the various media sources. Or perhaps...it's all a huge conspiracy by the condom companies to make their fortune by promoting and selling dental dams?
when shit has value...the poor will be born without assholes...

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Reinfection?
« Reply #63 on: October 18, 2010, 02:05:48 PM »
Um, ok. You really don't want to have a discussion, I take it. And ASO's stopped handing out dental dams fifteen years ago.

I would posit that the risk of HIV from cunnilingus is roughly the same as kissing. Theoretical at it's most kind, with literally reams of scientific evidence showing it has not, in fact, happened.

But if you want to be unique among humanity, I salute you for your effort. I do not think  you will overturn medical science and research based on your opinion, however.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline klipsch

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Re: Reinfection?
« Reply #64 on: October 18, 2010, 02:13:01 PM »
Um, ok. You really don't want to have a discussion, I take it. And ASO's stopped handing out dental dams fifteen years ago.

I would posit that the risk of HIV from cunnilingus is roughly the same as kissing. Theoretical at it's most kind, with literally reams of scientific evidence showing it has not, in fact, happened.

But if you want to be unique among humanity, I salute you for your effort. I do not think  you will overturn medical science and research based on your opinion, however.



Directly from POZ
Oral-Vaginal Sex

by Staff

Evaluating the risk of unprotected oral-vaginal sex (cunnilingus) is difficult, given that most people surveyed in studies did not avoid other types of unsafe sexual activity. However, there has been one case of female-to-female transmission of HIV via cunnilingus and another of female-to-male transmission of HIV via cunnilingus. Both of these cases involved transmission from the partner receiving oral sex to the partner performing oral sex. There haven't been any documented cases of HIV transmission from the insertive partner to the receptive partner.

To reduce the risk:

Use a latex barrier—such as a natural rubber latex sheet, a dental dam or a cut-open condom that makes a square—between your mouth and the vagina. A latex barrier reduces the risk of blood or vaginal fluids entering your mouth. Plastic food wrap also can be used as a barrier.

Valid studies can only exists if there are enough willing participants. Based on whatever dialog has transpired in the past several posts...it's evident that the source can't always be determined after infection
when shit has value...the poor will be born without assholes...

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Reinfection?
« Reply #65 on: October 18, 2010, 02:39:44 PM »
And oral sex is basically safe sex -- completely safe with respect to HIV and although not zero risk for other STDs, the chance of infection is far lower than for unprotected vaginal or anal sex.  Please educate yourself about the real risks.  If you stick with oral sex and condom-protected vaginal or anal sex, you have no HIV worries and very little worry about other STDs. "   DR HANSFIELD

"I am sure you can find lots of people who belive that HIV is transmitted by oral sex, but you will not find scientific data to support this unrealistic concern..."   DR HOOK

"HIV is not spread by touching, masturbation, oral sex or condom protected sex."- DR. HOOK

in the public HIV Prevention forum of MedHelp, TEAK and the other moderators maintain that oral sex in all forms is a zero risk activity. Would you agree with this assessment?   
I TOTALLY AGREE / DR GARCIA

"The observation on thousand and thousand of observations is that HIV is not spread by oral sex (of any sort)."  DR HOOK

Offline denb45

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Re: Reinfection?
« Reply #66 on: October 18, 2010, 03:00:11 PM »
I don't think that's even prescribed much anymore, unless you want buffalo hump.

Or Chronic Kidney Decease w/ 58% kidney function like I have from taking Crixivan for 3 yrs.  ???
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 03:02:52 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Granny60

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Re: Reinfection?
« Reply #67 on: October 18, 2010, 09:51:12 PM »
Nothing in biology is finite. If it were there would be no evolution. Dinosaurs would still interrupt your supper, you would know the day your child is born whether they would have cancer later in life and simian virus would never have transgressed into the human population. If life were finite, there would be no need for insurance actuaries nor the bean counters that calculate your odds at the roulette table. Evolution has been able to progress because people have believed in possibilities and sought answers. People who have a closed mind to possibilities or the pursuit of knowledge are destined to never make any new discoveries except by accident,  which proves again, that nothing is finite. DLS

 


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