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Author Topic: Deep Kissing followed by Rash and Diarrehea  (Read 4518 times)

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Offline Zizou777

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Deep Kissing followed by Rash and Diarrehea
« on: October 14, 2010, 04:29:24 AM »
My risk : Deep kissing csw in Thailand (Saliva involved). No Sex or penetration of any kind. Massage scratch and lick of penile shaft for 3 seconds.

1 week later (7 days), developed non itchy, sun burn / welt like rash which was like a 2.5 inch band under my left chest.  confirmed by doc. not to be herpes as it cleared up with use of topical propaderm ointment (cortisteroid 0.025%) within 2 days of use. He figured it was some rash - enzema, dermititis or something. AT day 14, i developed a lot of itching on my right calf and left thigh, which after being itched turned into a big welt / sore. For this i was once again given a cortisteroid and some allegra 120mg for 1 month 2x per day.

Subsequently at 12 days and 28th day post exposure, i had persistent diarrehea, but this cleared up after taking one anti diarrheal pill after 4-5 continuous watery stools.  my stools have remained soft and ribbony for the entire 20 days. Doc said that diarrea associated with hiv ars does not just stop and goes on for a bit, until the ars clears. 

I have tested 2x since exposure. First time at 26 days post exposure (the doc said it was a 4th gen. test), and 2nd time at 42 days (the doc also said it is a 4th gen test).  He said that in our country, Japan, 8 weeks is considered a reliable result.  I am due to be tested again at the 9th week. Although the doc says the test is a 4th gen test, i am not sure as all is written in a foreign language - it says HIV 1/2 CLIA. Results show 0.1 Non Reative on both tests. 

What are your thoughts. Please help - Ann.  Anxiety is taking over me.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Deep Kissing followed by Rash and Diarrehea
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2010, 04:40:50 AM »
You were not at risk of contracting HIV. Kissing of any sort with any person is not a risk for HIV transmission. The dick licking and the massage (scratch or otherwise) are similarly not risks.

HIV is transmitted via unprotected anal and vaginal sex. It also transmitted through sharing contaminated injecting equipment such as needles and syringes and, in some cases, from an HIV positive mother to her unborn or nursing infant.

None of these things apply in your case and thus we can conclude that you were not at risk of being infected with HIV.

Your test results are entirely accurate -  you are not HIV positive. Frankly I'm not sure why this doctor is indulging you with all this unnecessary testing. Your time and his time would be better spent working out what is causing your symptoms -- because it isn't HIV.

For the record the application of a steroid based ointment will make just about any red rash subside.

MtD

/edited to correct an error/
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 06:40:34 AM by Matty the Damned »

Offline Zizou777

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Re: Deep Kissing followed by Rash and Diarrehea
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2010, 05:04:24 AM »
The Doctor also said that kissing is not usually a way that hiv is transmitted and feels that all should be fine, but in terms of concern and protocol, to be sure, we said that testing at the 8 week mark should give reliable results.  There are people on this site that seem to argue with the moderators on the risks of kissing and although I lean towards the view expressed by people such as your self mtd and the moderators, it surely scares me.  No disrespect to anyone that is positively charged.   
Lets say my testing was via a third gen elisa (both were antibody tests via drawn blood work, altho the doc say its a 4th gen, i cant read anywhere on the results that a p24 was performed, as its in Japanese).  The doc said its a bit early but not to worry.  Is 6 weeks, 42 days, via 3rd gen antibody for hiv 1/2 a reliable test and would be give some reliability by this time period? 

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Deep Kissing followed by Rash and Diarrehea
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2010, 05:11:24 AM »
You didn't have an exposure from kissing nor do you need testing.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Deep Kissing followed by Rash and Diarrehea
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2010, 08:12:57 AM »
Putting aside for the moment that you did not have a risk from kissing, whether you believe it or not, when there has been a genuine risk we follow the CDC's guideline for a conclusive result at 13 weeks past such a risk. At 13 weeks all generations of tests currently in use will deliver a reliable result.

If you test negative at 6 weeks the strong likelihood is that you will continue to test negative.

Only unprotected vaginal and anal intercourse have been confirmed as risks for the sexual transmission of HIV.

Don't make your situation more complicated than it needs to be. Feelings aren't facts. You did not have a risk through kissing, massage or having your penis licked. Period.
Andy Velez

Offline jkinatl2

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  • Doo. Dah. Dipp-ity.
Re: Deep Kissing followed by Rash and Diarrehea
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2010, 12:47:32 PM »
In the history of the pandemic, no one has ever been documented as having acquired HIV through kissing.

You are unlikely to be the very first.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Zizou777

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  • Posts: 10
Re: Deep Kissing followed by Rash and Diarrehea
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2010, 12:40:09 AM »
Thank You for taking the time to reply. I do appreciate you sharing your time and knowledge.
Today i have pink eye and its just one thing after another. Anxiety is a horrible thing.  Still afraid as there is no 100% in medicine, and its difficult to put a rational perspective in situations like this.  Its not the exposure that bothers me, cause i know its very low risk, its the symptoms that followed and the timing. Every few days there was something new and its just a build up that leads to this anxiety. 

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Deep Kissing followed by Rash and Diarrehea
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2010, 02:17:07 AM »
Thank You for taking the time to reply. I do appreciate you sharing your time and knowledge.
Today i have pink eye and its just one thing after another. Anxiety is a horrible thing.  Still afraid as there is no 100% in medicine, and its difficult to put a rational perspective in situations like this.  Its not the exposure that bothers me, cause i know its very low risk, its the symptoms that followed and the timing. Every few days there was something new and its just a build up that leads to this anxiety. 

If you are feeling ill your time would be more productively spent seeing a doctor. We cannot help you with your symptoms.

You were not at risk of HIV infection.

MtD

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Deep Kissing followed by Rash and Diarrehea
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2010, 07:55:23 AM »
Anxiety is a terrible thing and so is having the HIV jitters. The jitters are very different than actually being infected. When you have the jitters your mind is busily misinterpreting everything that happens or doesn't happen to your body as another mistaken sign of HIV infection.

All we can do here is evaluate your situation in terms of risk. And you didn't have any so whatever is going on with you has nothing to do with HIV. Discuss the situation with your doctor. This is NOT an HIV situation. Period.
Andy Velez

Offline Zizou777

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Re: Deep Kissing followed by Rash and Diarrehea
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2010, 11:49:19 PM »
Dear Andy, thanks a lot for your reassurance and facts.
I took a 4th gen. 8 weeks test today and it was negative.
feel less anxious already as this is a good sign.
I appreciate your time and efforts.
I will be more careful next time. 
God Bless you all.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Deep Kissing followed by Rash and Diarrehea
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2010, 07:27:03 AM »
A negative test result is always happy news even though yours is no surprise to us.

Remember to always use condoms for intercourse and you will be well protected against the sexual transmission of HIV.

Cheers.
Andy Velez

Offline Zizou777

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  • Posts: 10
Re: Deep Kissing followed by Rash and Diarrehea
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2010, 08:44:24 PM »
Dear ANDY, ANN, why does doc bob on the body.com say 3 mos and 6 mos for a significant exposure? Is this the actual recommended guideline? Dunno what to believe???

Nov. 3rd Entry...reply from Dr. Bob

Hi,

Following a significant HIV exposure, such as unprotected receptive vaginal-penile sex with a partner confirmed to be HIV infected, HIV testing is recommended immediately (as a baseline), at three months and at six months to definitively confirm transmission has not occurred. Your wife will need to be tested out to six months from the date of the last potential exposure (unprotected sex).
Dr. Bob

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Deep Kissing followed by Rash and Diarrehea
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2010, 09:21:05 PM »

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Deep Kissing followed by Rash and Diarrehea
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2010, 10:18:22 PM »
The exceptions for testing out to 6 months are when longterm intravenous drug use is involved or organ transplant or treatment for cancer. Otherwise 3 months has long been accepted as reliable by the very conservative CDC.

We give you the real deal here and we are not responsible for what you find on any other site or from other sources.
Andy Velez

Offline Zizou777

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  • Posts: 10
Re: Deep Kissing followed by Rash and Diarrehea
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2010, 10:36:01 PM »
I see. I've long followed thebody.com and dr. bob but i dunno why he follows such stringent / conservative guidelines. Is the body.com funded by the CDC? Either way, as Rapid Rod says, 3 months is very accurate and is reliable, as per the cdc also, so my statement above does not tally.
On Medhelp they say 3 months is 99.99% I guess with medicine, nothing can be 100%.
Will take a final test at 12 weeks, 85 days. I hope i can than totally ease my anxiety and
move on. The reason i am so anxious is despite my so called "non risk" exposure, in no way to i want to risk
this to my dear wife. So i absolutely need to be 100% sure. 

Offline Zizou777

  • Member
  • Posts: 10
Re: Deep Kissing followed by Rash and Diarrehea
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2010, 10:56:02 AM »
Tested Negative via 4th gen duo at week 12, 85th day.
Thanks for your support. I felt i ought to report back. Thanks Andy, Mat. God bless you.
If there are other worried wells out of Japan, i`d be happy to support in any way i can.
regards

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Deep Kissing followed by Rash and Diarrehea
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2010, 05:24:46 PM »
That's very happy news, Zizou.

Enjoy it and protect that gift by always using condoms for vaginal and anal intercourse.

Cheers.
Andy Velez

Offline Zizou777

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Re: Deep Kissing followed by Rash and Diarrehea
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2010, 07:27:43 PM »
Andy,
why is there so much conflicting info even dished out by doctors - some say 6 weeks, some say 12 weeks (13 weeks) and there are still doctors saying 6 months, 1 year and i even read a post today about an oncologist telling someone that you ought to check yearly for a few years as there is no 100% in medicine.
This leads to me to feel uneasy, as it would make all those concerned feel ---
Does the 12 / 13 week window take into account enough of a buffer? 
Why are qualified doctors speaking like this and why isn't there consensus?
The CDC says 12/13 weeks and 6 months for a confirmed / serious exposure...
When would one know that they are safe to resume life, without the fear that they can infect another person? I am concerned as I want to resume life with my wife. Sorry this is getting dragged out andy, but your thoughts would be appreciated. thanks in advance.

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Deep Kissing followed by Rash and Diarrehea
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2010, 08:04:45 PM »
You were given the guidelines from the CDC had you took the time to read them you would have read 3 months is conclusive. Plus, you didn't have a risk or a reason to test for HIV.

Offline Zizou777

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  • Posts: 10
Re: Deep Kissing followed by Rash and Diarrehea
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2010, 03:52:49 AM »
Rapid Rod, were some guidelines changed in 2008 ? I did read the testing paper, page 11 point 4 that you sent out.

Why does Dr. McGowan then say this on the body.com?

Response from Dr. McGowan

I can understand the frustration in your question.

I practice in New York State. The current recommendation for HIV testing after potential exposure as recommended by the New York State Department of Health AIDS Institute is: "Sequential confidential HIV testing should be obtained at baseline, 1, 3, and 6 months post-exposure even if PEP is declined." This recommendation was last revise January 2008 (www.hivguidelines.org). The CDC recommendations for HIV testing after non-occupational exposure are in line with this recommendation: "All patients seeking care after HIV exposure should be tested for the presence of HIV antibodies at baseline and at 4--6 weeks, 3 months, and 6 months after exposure to determine whether HIV infection has occurred." (Available at: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5402a1.htm). This recommendation was re-iterated in the CDC guidelines (released August 2008) for potential exposure to HIV in a mass casualty situation (available at: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5706a1.htm?s_cid=rr5706a1_e).

While it is true that the vast majority of conversions will occur sooner it is still the standard recommendation to test up to 6 months and that is the advice I would provide.

Thanks for your question.

Joe

Offline RapidRod

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Re: Deep Kissing followed by Rash and Diarrehea
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2010, 04:15:04 AM »
Apparently you can't comprehend what you read. Look at the dates of the articles you refered to. At no time, again no time did you have a risk of contracting HIV from kissing.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: Deep Kissing followed by Rash and Diarrehea
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2010, 10:43:51 AM »
Andy,
why is there so much conflicting info even dished out by doctors - some say 6 weeks, some say 12 weeks (13 weeks) and there are still doctors saying 6 months, 1 year and i even read a post today about an oncologist telling someone that you ought to check yearly for a few years as there is no 100% in medicine.
This leads to me to feel uneasy, as it would make all those concerned feel ---
Does the 12 / 13 week window take into account enough of a buffer? 
Why are qualified doctors speaking like this and why isn't there consensus?
The CDC says 12/13 weeks and 6 months for a confirmed / serious exposure...
When would one know that they are safe to resume life, without the fear that they can infect another person? I am concerned as I want to resume life with my wife. Sorry this is getting dragged out andy, but your thoughts would be appreciated. thanks in advance.

We're not going to get into a continuous back and forth with you about this non-risk issue. You don't have to accept what we say. If you continue to search the web I can assure you that you will find misinformation to feed your worst fears. But you are worrying about a non-risk incident. Kissing, deep or otherwise is absolutely not a risk for HIV transmission.

I am also going to warn you that if you continue to return with more what ifs about this issue you will find yourself getting a Time Out for 28 days. You are worrying needlessly. Period.
Andy Velez

Offline Zizou777

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Re: Deep Kissing followed by Rash and Diarrehea
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2010, 03:57:45 AM »
Dear Andy, Rapid Rod (teak). I am sorry to brush of f my anxiety on you.  I will deal with that separately and get help.  If need be, will test at 6 months, more to deal with my anxiety and irrational fear.
Wishing you two well. Please take care and thanks for your support / help and advise.

 


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