Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
Newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr Instagram
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
December 21, 2014, 05:02:34 AM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 650047
  • Total Topics: 49619
  • Online Today: 177
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online
Users: 5
Guests: 100
Total: 105

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: Complications even if a cure  (Read 4921 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline wtfimpoz

  • Member
  • Posts: 418
  • Let's make biscuits!
Complications even if a cure
« on: October 11, 2010, 02:15:12 PM »
Let's imagine for a moment that HIV is cured.  In this thought experiment, the virus is completely eliminated from the body, the resovoirs are drained, etc.  What complications could one expect for the rest of their life?  Doesn't a low nadir cd4 frequently  correllate to diminished immune function as the diversity of white blood cells would be lessened?  Is there cause to think that the dreaded "cognitive decline" would still be an issue?  Any other major issues which may be a legacy of this virus?
09/01/2009-neg
mid april, 2010, "flu like illness".
06/01/2010-weakly reactive ELISA, indeterminant WB
06/06/2010-reactive ELISA, confirmed positive.

DATE       CD4     %     VL
07/15/10  423     33    88k
08/28/10  489     19    189k
09/06/10-Started ATRIPLA
09/15/10  420     38    1400
11/21/10  517     25    51

Offline Hoover

  • Member
  • Posts: 286
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2010, 02:34:55 PM »
Let's hope to find out some day what will happen.
Infection date: March 16, 2010
20/05/10 - CD4 348  VL 58,000  Lymph nodes in jaw painful!  Antioxidants started.
01/06/10 - CD4 428  VL?
24/06/10 - CD4 578  VL 9,800
13/07/10 - CD4 620  VL?
04/09/10 - CD4 648  VL?
01/11/10 - CD4 710  VL?   CD8 972
16/12/10    CD4 738  VL?  CD8  896   
02/02/11    CD4 520 (month of parasites and new lab)
14/03/11 started Truvida and Sustiva (Efavirenz)
04/07/11 CD4 686 VL 75 CD8 588  41%
10/10/11 CD4 757  45%  VL UD

Offline bocker3

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,458
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2010, 03:13:02 PM »
Oh yes, please let's pull the negative out of a (theoretical) positive.  Why think of the glass as half full when it could be thought to be filled with poison.    ::)
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,707
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2010, 03:22:22 PM »
Let's imagine for a moment that HIV is cured.  In this thought experiment, the virus is completely eliminated from the body, the resovoirs are drained, etc.  What complications could one expect for the rest of their life?  Doesn't a low nadir cd4 frequently  correllate to diminished immune function as the diversity of white blood cells would be lessened?  Is there cause to think that the dreaded "cognitive decline" would still be an issue?  Any other major issues which may be a legacy of this virus?

I took your advice and imagined myself without HIV......... but I forgot to imagine my wife without it and I think she just reinfected me.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline Jeff G

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 13,238
  • How am I doing Beren ?
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2010, 03:35:40 PM »
I'm so damn good looking that HIV and cigarette breath is the only thing keeping me from being sexually harassed 24/7 so I don't really want to think about it .  
« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 03:59:50 PM by jg1962 »

Offline Realist

  • Member
  • Posts: 162
    • NotDownNotOut's Blog
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2010, 03:45:22 PM »
Let's imagine for a moment that HIV is cured.  In this thought experiment, the virus is completely eliminated from the body, the resovoirs are drained, etc.  What complications could one expect for the rest of their life?  Doesn't a low nadir cd4 frequently  correllate to diminished immune function as the diversity of white blood cells would be lessened?  Is there cause to think that the dreaded "cognitive decline" would still be an issue?  Any other major issues which may be a legacy of this virus?

Once a pozzie, always a pozzie in the eyes of the world.
23/02/10 Tests confirmed
25/02/10 13100 220 24%
12/03/10 19800 372 19%
26/03/10 Atripla
30/04/10 58 286 23%
28/05/10 45 222 21%
25/06/10 UD 301 23%
24/09/10 UD 283 22%
01/12/10 UD 319 23%
11/03/11 UD 293 28%
10/06/11 UD 423 24%
23/08/11 UD 389 26%
28/02/11 UD 315 34%

I blogged it all http://notdownnotout.blogspot.com

Offline wtfimpoz

  • Member
  • Posts: 418
  • Let's make biscuits!
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2010, 04:34:18 PM »
Are you saying you think the social stigma would remain even if the disease went away?  That's interesting.
09/01/2009-neg
mid april, 2010, "flu like illness".
06/01/2010-weakly reactive ELISA, indeterminant WB
06/06/2010-reactive ELISA, confirmed positive.

DATE       CD4     %     VL
07/15/10  423     33    88k
08/28/10  489     19    189k
09/06/10-Started ATRIPLA
09/15/10  420     38    1400
11/21/10  517     25    51

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,166
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2010, 04:36:02 PM »
Cross that happy bridge when I come to it.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline wtfimpoz

  • Member
  • Posts: 418
  • Let's make biscuits!
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2010, 04:36:41 PM »
I'm so damn good looking that HIV and cigarette breath is the only thing keeping me from being sexually harassed 24/7 so I don't really want to think about it .  

LMFAO!!!
09/01/2009-neg
mid april, 2010, "flu like illness".
06/01/2010-weakly reactive ELISA, indeterminant WB
06/06/2010-reactive ELISA, confirmed positive.

DATE       CD4     %     VL
07/15/10  423     33    88k
08/28/10  489     19    189k
09/06/10-Started ATRIPLA
09/15/10  420     38    1400
11/21/10  517     25    51

Offline wtfimpoz

  • Member
  • Posts: 418
  • Let's make biscuits!
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2010, 04:38:34 PM »
Oh yes, please let's pull the negative out of a (theoretical) positive.  Why think of the glass as half full when it could be thought to be filled with poison.    ::)

I'm trying to gauge the nature of the glass.
09/01/2009-neg
mid april, 2010, "flu like illness".
06/01/2010-weakly reactive ELISA, indeterminant WB
06/06/2010-reactive ELISA, confirmed positive.

DATE       CD4     %     VL
07/15/10  423     33    88k
08/28/10  489     19    189k
09/06/10-Started ATRIPLA
09/15/10  420     38    1400
11/21/10  517     25    51

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,166
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2010, 04:42:04 PM »
huh
This is some debbie downer stuff.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline ElZorro

  • Member
  • Posts: 535
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2010, 04:44:58 PM »
huh
This is some debbie downer stuff.

I'm still trying to understand why it's posted under "Research News & Studies"...

Offline Assurbanipal

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,173
  • Taking a forums break, still see PM's
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2010, 05:15:18 PM »
I'm trying to gauge the nature of the glass.
Tempered?
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline wtfimpoz

  • Member
  • Posts: 418
  • Let's make biscuits!
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2010, 06:39:59 PM »
I'm still trying to understand why it's posted under "Research News & Studies"...

I wanted to know what the legacy of the virus would be even if it was cured.  This seemed like the most sensible place for an understanding of long term side effects of HIV that are not necessarily dependent of the presence of virus anywhere in the body. 
09/01/2009-neg
mid april, 2010, "flu like illness".
06/01/2010-weakly reactive ELISA, indeterminant WB
06/06/2010-reactive ELISA, confirmed positive.

DATE       CD4     %     VL
07/15/10  423     33    88k
08/28/10  489     19    189k
09/06/10-Started ATRIPLA
09/15/10  420     38    1400
11/21/10  517     25    51

Offline bocker3

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,458
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2010, 08:30:27 PM »
I wanted to know what the legacy of the virus would be even if it was cured.  This seemed like the most sensible place for an understanding of long term side effects of HIV that are not necessarily dependent of the presence of virus anywhere in the body. 

I suppose that you can make up any scenario that would most suit your expected answer. 
How the heck can this be answered when it hasn't happened.  It's all useless conjecture. 

You really need to find a hobby -- you are obsessing about HIV -- which is understandable in the newly diagnosed, but really -- focus on something tangible in your life.
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2010, 09:06:01 PM »
This is neither research nor news. Why is it posted in Research News & Studies?

We need a new category. Useless Twaddle. ::)

Moved.
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Rev. Moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,783
  • Smart ass faggot ©
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2010, 09:21:59 PM »
This is neither research nor news. Why is it posted in Research News & Studies?

We need a new category. Useless Twaddle. ::)

Moved.

Thank you.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline bocker3

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,458
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2010, 10:34:25 PM »
Useless Twaddle. ::)

Twaddle??  is that Rock speak?   ;)

edited for poor spelling
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline Hellraiser

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,143
  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2010, 01:28:49 AM »
Let's imagine for a moment that HIV is cured.  In this thought experiment, the virus is completely eliminated from the body, the resovoirs are drained, etc.  What complications could one expect for the rest of their life?  Doesn't a low nadir cd4 frequently  correllate to diminished immune function as the diversity of white blood cells would be lessened?  Is there cause to think that the dreaded "cognitive decline" would still be an issue?  Any other major issues which may be a legacy of this virus?

If HIV is removed from your body, then you would be living the same life but without the meds.  Whether or not your immune system would begin to regenerate back to the same levels as pre-infection is doubtful.  I think the social stigma would definitely fade.  It faded with the ARVs (to some degree) and if it was curable I think it would take on the same sort of stigma as say syphillis, or malaria.  Not something anyone wants, but not the end of the line.

Offline Rev. Moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,783
  • Smart ass faggot ©
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2010, 01:33:24 AM »
If HIV is removed from your body, then you would be living the same life but without the meds.  Whether or not your immune system would begin to regenerate back to the same levels as pre-infection is doubtful.  I think the social stigma would definitely fade.  It faded with the ARVs (to some degree) and if it was curable I think it would take on the same sort of stigma as say syphillis, or malaria.  Not something anyone wants, but not the end of the line.

I think it would become a vicious circle, even if totally eradicated.  We would just have a new breed of worried wells who would insist on the idea of still having HIV in their bodies --even if every other test proved the contrary.  It is only human nature.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline Jeff G

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 13,238
  • How am I doing Beren ?
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2010, 01:44:25 AM »
I think it would become a vicious circle, even if totally eradicated.  We would just have a new breed of worried wells who would insist on the idea of still having HIV in their bodies --even if every other test proved the contrary.  It is only human nature.


What would we all do ? Toe Nail Fungas Community Forums just doesn't have that wow factor . 

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,516
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2010, 01:50:07 AM »
If HIV is eradicated from my body I'm going to replace it with namaste!
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Jeff G

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 13,238
  • How am I doing Beren ?
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2010, 01:54:12 AM »
There is always magic maker syph . 

Offline Rev. Moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,783
  • Smart ass faggot ©
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2010, 02:10:50 AM »
If HIV is eradicated from my body I'm going to replace it with namaste!

There is always magic maker syph . 


I'm replacing mine with fundages.  And I will start a forum for people who own funky oxygen chambers.  It will be a blast.  I already reserved the domain names: sevenbitterqueens.com and 7BQ.net
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline Miss Philicia

  • Member
  • Posts: 24,516
  • celebrity poster, faker & poser
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2010, 02:17:46 AM »
I'm not sure why anyone would bother eradicating HIV in the first place.  If it comes through the A/C ducts then even once you get it out of your body it will just get breathed in again, right?

I'm confused.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Rev. Moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,783
  • Smart ass faggot ©
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2010, 02:22:18 AM »
I'm not sure why anyone would bother eradicating HIV in the first place.  If it comes through the A/C ducts then even once you get it out of your body it will just get breathed in again, right?

I'm confused.

Or from them coke straws.  Party girls all over the world will either reform or be pozzums forevah evah.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline jay195

  • Member
  • Posts: 67
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2010, 02:13:42 PM »
to hiv or not to hiv .............. I really have a good laugh with you guys, some of you are so funny, the others, well , I guess you are the kind of people who will always find holes in everything , ( pun intended indeedy ).

                Jay xx

Offline Jeff G

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 13,238
  • How am I doing Beren ?
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2010, 02:19:49 PM »
to hiv or not to hiv .............. I really have a good laugh with you guys, some of you are so funny, the others, well , I guess you are the kind of people who will always find holes in everything , ( pun intended indeedy ).

                Jay xx

If you have HIV and don't learn to laugh at it sometime your head will explode , its a known scientific fact , I cant find the link right now but it is a fact trust me . 

Offline denb45

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,051
  • "1987 Classic Old School POZ+"
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2010, 03:32:20 PM »
I don't think this will EVER happen to someone that already has AIDS, they will always have it, and it is my understanding that any cure or vaccine would only be for the benefit of people who aren't infected, so they won't get infected, as for all of us, I kinda doubt they would be interested in saving any of us, I know that sounds kinda harsh, but, if any of this were true, I'm sure it will play-out-that-way........
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

Offline leatherman

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,327
  • Google and HIV meds are Your Friends
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2010, 03:53:32 PM »
any cure or vaccine would only be for the benefit of people who aren't infected
a vaccine would protect people from getting infected by HIV when they are exposed to it
(ie no new cases)

a cure would kill off the HIV in infected people.
(ie a miracle of science!)

Since you'd still probably carry antibodies, I think you might always remain poz, but you would not be carrying an infectious disease anymore; therefore you would not be able to infect others, nor would it specifically cause any further damage to your system. The extra added benefit would be not having to take any more ARV meds! WooHoo!

personally, I've always thought a vaccine would come first, as it should be "easier" to block HIV entry than eradicating HIV with a cure. Would they continue looking for a "cure" if a vaccine was devised? I don't know. My guess is no. Would it mean another drastic change in how poz people continued to receive care? probably as the amount of infected would begin to decrease through the years.

If there was a cure, would there be residual issues in the previously infected? of course. for many the damage has already been done. Curing the HIV wouldn't stop the lipo, the bone density decay, and issues like that. probably cognitive issues would continue too. Hopefully treatments could be found to help with the remaining side effects of having been infected by HIV. It would be nice to have treatments to help with the remaining side effects of the meds too.
leatherman (aka mIkIE)


chart from 1992-2013; updated 2/09/13  Reyataz/Norvir/Truvada

Offline skeebo1969

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,707
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2010, 06:10:48 PM »
I'm not sure why anyone would bother eradicating HIV in the first place.  If it comes through the A/C ducts then even once you get it out of your body it will just get breathed in again, right?

I'm confused.

We would be safe, only women can get infected in this manner.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline wtfimpoz

  • Member
  • Posts: 418
  • Let's make biscuits!
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2010, 07:29:57 PM »
If HIV is removed from your body, then you would be living the same life but without the meds.  Whether or not your immune system would begin to regenerate back to the same levels as pre-infection is doubtful.  I think the social stigma would definitely fade.  It faded with the ARVs (to some degree) and if it was curable I think it would take on the same sort of stigma as say syphillis, or malaria.  Not something anyone wants, but not the end of the line.

Thank you for your answer.
09/01/2009-neg
mid april, 2010, "flu like illness".
06/01/2010-weakly reactive ELISA, indeterminant WB
06/06/2010-reactive ELISA, confirmed positive.

DATE       CD4     %     VL
07/15/10  423     33    88k
08/28/10  489     19    189k
09/06/10-Started ATRIPLA
09/15/10  420     38    1400
11/21/10  517     25    51

Offline wtfimpoz

  • Member
  • Posts: 418
  • Let's make biscuits!
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2010, 07:33:22 PM »
a vaccine would protect people from getting infected by HIV when they are exposed to it
(ie no new cases)

a cure would kill off the HIV in infected people.
(ie a miracle of science!)

Since you'd still probably carry antibodies, I think you might always remain poz, but you would not be carrying an infectious disease anymore; therefore you would not be able to infect others, nor would it specifically cause any further damage to your system. The extra added benefit would be not having to take any more ARV meds! WooHoo!

personally, I've always thought a vaccine would come first, as it should be "easier" to block HIV entry than eradicating HIV with a cure. Would they continue looking for a "cure" if a vaccine was devised? I don't know. My guess is no. Would it mean another drastic change in how poz people continued to receive care? probably as the amount of infected would begin to decrease through the years.

If there was a cure, would there be residual issues in the previously infected? of course. for many the damage has already been done. Curing the HIV wouldn't stop the lipo, the bone density decay, and issues like that. probably cognitive issues would continue too. Hopefully treatments could be found to help with the remaining side effects of having been infected by HIV. It would be nice to have treatments to help with the remaining side effects of the meds too.

Thank you for your insight.
09/01/2009-neg
mid april, 2010, "flu like illness".
06/01/2010-weakly reactive ELISA, indeterminant WB
06/06/2010-reactive ELISA, confirmed positive.

DATE       CD4     %     VL
07/15/10  423     33    88k
08/28/10  489     19    189k
09/06/10-Started ATRIPLA
09/15/10  420     38    1400
11/21/10  517     25    51

Offline RJNYC

  • New Member
  • Posts: 2
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2010, 12:43:38 PM »
It's a serious and legit question from the scientific standpoint, not twaddle. One of things that happens as people get older is that the pool of inexperienced or "naive" T cells and B cells that are needed to respond to new infectious challenges slowly declines, and this process is accelerated in HIV. When HIV is suppressed, reconstitution of naive T cells is the slowest part of immune recovery and eradication instead of suppression wouldn't necessarily speed that process up. It depends on the function of an organ called the thymus which shrinks during aging. The news that lessens the downer is that there is research being done to try and figure out how to make the thymus work better, there's some evidence human growth hormone can do it but that isn't an ideal treatment for a bunch of reasons, so other things like IL-7 are being looked at and are showing some promise. Also it would depend on how much attrition of immune system resources had occurred before the virus was gone. At the last report in January of this year, the CD4 count of the Berlin guy who received the CCR5-negative stem cell transplant and has now been off ART for close to three years with no HIV detected was reported to be around 800, the highest level since he was first diagnosed - that sounds pretty encouraging.

Offline wtfimpoz

  • Member
  • Posts: 418
  • Let's make biscuits!
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2010, 01:52:16 PM »
Thank you very much RJNYC.  I agree that its a valid post for the research forum, but I suppose anything other than an article telling us researchers did something in a test tube followed by 15 posts saying "oh joyous day, its going to be over any minute" gets pushed to the side. 

And Ann, its not "useless twaddle".  The purpose of the post was to speculate on whether or not the eradication of the virus would provide those who are infected with any beneift to their life, save the convenience of not having to take drugs.  We're being told with increasing optimism that a major advance...a functional cure or possibly eradication...is on the horizon, held back mostly by a lack of funding and scientific interest.  If thats the case, every one of us needs to be falling all over ourselves to find out what we can do to help.  We need to be donating every spare penny we have to search for a cure, and making sure our friends and family do too.   We need to be  protesting something other than ADAP funding cuts and apartment subsidies. We can't reasonably do this until we have a strong reason to believe that a "cure" would actually provide us with meaningful benefits.  If a "cure" involves a quintupple antiretroviral cocktail chased with dacogen and gemzar, the "cure" might be worse than a lifetime of treatment.  If a "cure" means the deletion of the CCR5 receptor, leaving the "cured" prone to numerous cancers and still marginally infectious due to their slowly emptying resevoirs, we haven't really improved upon anything.  Those of us who are infected with this disease need to do what we can to save outselves, and that involves directing our time, prayers and money at research that will actually help >>>US<<<.

In the most recent interview posted on Poz, Anthony Fauci seems to indicate that he is most optimistic about the possibility of a functional cure for those who begin treatment "three months, maybe six months" after infection.  As a person who started treatment 5 months to the date after infection, I find that quote scary as hell, and most of you---who went years between infection and treatment---should too.  This possibility of a "cure" only helps those in the future who are getting tested MONTHLY.  Not Those who already have it.  Not those who were infected by lying partners and never thought to get tested, or mystery infections or people infected in places where constant testing isn't feasible.  Its basically a cure for health conscious upper class western gay men who intentionally put themselves at risk, and hypochondriacs.  Speculation on the nature of post "cure" life allows us to direct our energies away from things that won't benefit us...like Fauci's vision of a functional cure...and towards something better.       
09/01/2009-neg
mid april, 2010, "flu like illness".
06/01/2010-weakly reactive ELISA, indeterminant WB
06/06/2010-reactive ELISA, confirmed positive.

DATE       CD4     %     VL
07/15/10  423     33    88k
08/28/10  489     19    189k
09/06/10-Started ATRIPLA
09/15/10  420     38    1400
11/21/10  517     25    51

Offline mecch

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,166
  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2010, 07:14:43 AM »
The purpose of the post was to speculate on whether or not the eradication of the virus would provide those who are infected with any beneift to their life, save the convenience of not having to take drugs.  

Eradication's only benefit is "convenience" and the convenience is not having to take drugs?  Is that what you meant to write?  Sounds ridiculous to me.

We're being told with increasing optimism that a major advance...a functional cure or possibly eradication...is on the horizon, held back mostly by a lack of funding and scientific interest.  

You missed a few news bulletins.  The VIPs in AIDS research decided to change the tone of public relations on the research to include the possibility of a cure.  As well as encourage researchers to continue looking for a cure.  The objectives of research is much more nuanced and complicated than you let on,  and research is more comprehensive than that which we hear about through public relations and news releases by scientists and institutions.  Researching HAART is often portrayed as NOT researching a cure but I don't see that view as a true history of the research, for example. 

The rest of your post is interesting to read but its all quite dense with statements that need to be reexamined.  It seems to me, that in your mind, dark clouds are covering any good news about the present and future state of living with HIV.  

"Its basically a cure for health conscious upper class western gay men who intentionally put themselves at risk, and hypochondriacs."  Kinda of a pessimistic and bitter way of seeing things, no?

And why make Anthony Fauci into the enemy? 

I understand you have a feeling of rage but its seems to be targeted a bit scattershot. Kinda shoot the messenger, somehow.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2010, 07:19:47 AM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline wtfimpoz

  • Member
  • Posts: 418
  • Let's make biscuits!
Re: Complications even if a cure
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2010, 04:58:17 PM »
 have no animosity towards fauci.  If anything, I'm greatful for his honesty in explaining to us that current research is closer towards a functional cure, and that a functional cure is most beneficial to those who began treatment "three months, maybe six months" after infection.  It's always helpful to have the honest opinion of someone like himself, as it gives the rest if us some idea as to what we should be setting our sights on.  If I understood him correctly, I'd say we should be setting our sights on something other than a functional cure.

As for whether or not eradications benefit is purely from a financial or convenience standpoint, I see no reason why this speculation may be ridiculous.  We don't know what causes some of the worst long term problems if HIV, and there is some reason to believe they are the result of a wrecking ball set in motion at seroconversion. Emptying near-dormant virus from resevoirs may not yield a tangible benefit.

09/01/2009-neg
mid april, 2010, "flu like illness".
06/01/2010-weakly reactive ELISA, indeterminant WB
06/06/2010-reactive ELISA, confirmed positive.

DATE       CD4     %     VL
07/15/10  423     33    88k
08/28/10  489     19    189k
09/06/10-Started ATRIPLA
09/15/10  420     38    1400
11/21/10  517     25    51

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.