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Author Topic: hiv infection by oral sex  (Read 26026 times)

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Offline Joe K

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #100 on: October 16, 2010, 11:47:37 PM »
phil took the same dumb pills grandma did.  ;D

if old grandma wants to think oral sex causes hiv, let her/him think so.  makes you look dumb.

Who ordered the troll?

Offline phildinftlaudy

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  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #101 on: October 16, 2010, 11:49:07 PM »
Who ordered the troll?
Hi Joe:
I have already reported him to mods as well as the PM he sent me attacking me.

September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline Jeff G

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #102 on: October 16, 2010, 11:50:53 PM »
Who ordered the troll?

He is not a very clever troll , as trolls go I'm kinda bored by him or what ever it is .    

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #103 on: October 16, 2010, 11:56:40 PM »
if old grandma wants to think oral sex causes hiv, let her/him think so.  makes you look dumb.

phil took the same dumb pills grandma did.  ;D

Any need for this?  You may disagree, but you could do it more respectfully.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline Joe K

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #104 on: October 16, 2010, 11:58:14 PM »
Any need for this?  You may disagree, but you could do it more respectfully.

Apparently there is a reason. I'm going with he's a 12 year old child who is having a tantrum. Seems just about right and we all know what to do when kids have tantrums. IGNORE THEM.

Offline Andy Velez

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #105 on: October 17, 2010, 09:51:02 AM »
SS, one more crack about someone's being "dumb" is going to win you a Time Out.

If you can't get your snarkiness under control you are next going to get a vacation from the site to do so.

Consider yourself warned for the last time.
Andy Velez

Offline bocker3

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #106 on: October 17, 2010, 10:06:07 AM »
SS, one more crack about someone's being "dumb" is going to win you a Time Out.

If you can't get your snarkiness under control you are next going to get a vacation from the site to do so.

Consider yourself warned for the last time.

In the last 12 hrs he's been warned by 3 different mods!  How long will it take to TO him?  I've never asked for anyone to be TO'd, but he has posted nothihng but snark since he started -- he's even attacked Jan.  My nine year old grandson has better manners than this kid.  I think you are all being way too lenient with this one.

My 2 cents.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #107 on: October 17, 2010, 10:18:36 AM »
I feel the same way - nearly every one of his posts he has used name calling and even sent me to PMs name calling me -- all reported to Mods and still he is around....  ???
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline Joe K

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #108 on: October 17, 2010, 11:10:19 AM »
I am confused as well. He has insulted Granny, Jan, Phil and myself and he is still here?

Offline mecch

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #109 on: October 17, 2010, 11:16:58 AM »
Well, cough.
I called out his flamebait early on, in the first thread now locked, and was rewarded with a school marm diss from Gymrat and Ann.  ;D
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #110 on: October 17, 2010, 12:03:16 PM »



   Strange night it was, Halloween is close people.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline bocker3

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #111 on: October 17, 2010, 12:37:49 PM »
Well, cough.
I called out his flamebait early on, in the first thread now locked, and was rewarded with a school marm diss from Gymrat and Ann.  ;D


Oh please -- you weren't "dissed" for calling out flamebaiting, you were "dissed" for flaming back.  It wasn't the message, but the approach that the others didn't like.  Stop playing victim.
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline klipsch

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #112 on: October 17, 2010, 02:29:23 PM »
Regardless of how many b'zillion scientific studies anybody wants to post or quote about HIV not being transmittable through oral sex...based on my personal experience alone, they're full of shit. Or...I should be trying to locate parties responsible for a blood bank that was located somewhere in the backstreets of Philly in 1996. Which one seems more viable...?

 ;D
when shit has value...the poor will be born without assholes...

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #113 on: October 17, 2010, 03:32:30 PM »
Regardless of how many b'zillion scientific studies anybody wants to post or quote about HIV not being transmittable through oral sex...based on my personal experience alone, they're full of shit. Or...I should be trying to locate parties responsible for a blood bank that was located somewhere in the backstreets of Philly in 1996. Which one seems more viable...?

 ;D

Sad thing is, the plural of anecdote is not data. I will take a few days to rifle through Granny's links, of course. Be cool if, in return, she would explain why Romero and Page Shafer, two of the most long-standing studies of serodiscordant couples, are incorrect in their conclusions.

Especially since, after those studies, there has been a virtual standstill in HIV transmission vector research. If anyone knows about anything ongoing, please let me know.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline RapidRod

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #114 on: October 17, 2010, 03:41:20 PM »
Regardless of how many b'zillion scientific studies anybody wants to post or quote about HIV not being transmittable through oral sex...based on my personal experience alone, they're full of shit. Or...I should be trying to locate parties responsible for a blood bank that was located somewhere in the backstreets of Philly in 1996. Which one seems more viable...?

 ;D
I'll admit to "experimenting" and having anal sex once when I was about 21.

Offline tommy246

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #115 on: October 17, 2010, 04:11:03 PM »
bitches
jan 06 neg
dec 08 pos cd4 505 ,16%, 1,500vl
april 09 cd4 635 ,16%,60,000
july 09 ,cd4 545,17%,80,000
aug 09,hosptal 18days pneumonia cd190,225,000,15%
1 week later cd4 415 20%
nov 09 cd4 591 ,vl 59,000,14%,started atripla
dec 09  cd4 787, vl 266, 16%
march 2010  cd4 720 vl non detectable -20  20%
june 2010  cd4  680, 21%, ND

Offline RapidRod

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #116 on: October 17, 2010, 04:20:04 PM »
bitches
You have anything better to contribute?

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #117 on: October 17, 2010, 04:27:44 PM »
You have anything better to contribute?

You've obviously not seen his five other vodka-infused posts in the past five minutes elsewhere.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #118 on: October 17, 2010, 04:36:37 PM »
bitches

Please provide first tier, peer-reviewed scientific data for the claim of "bitches."

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline RapidRod

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #119 on: October 17, 2010, 04:40:33 PM »
You've obviously not seen his five other vodka-infused posts in the past five minutes elsewhere.
P, I saw it. He'll be gone as the way of his brother.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #120 on: October 17, 2010, 04:50:27 PM »
You've obviously not seen his five other vodka-infused posts in the past five minutes elsewhere.

Vodka? Really? I am never like that when I drink vodka. Absinthe has made me miss the bathroom, which is why I fear and respect it. Tequila tends to make me dance. Bourbon makes me write. Vodka makes me talk and talk about scientific theory and the TV shows "Firefly," "Buffy: The Vampire Slayer," and the new "Star Trek" movie. Gin does make me belligerent though.

It takes all kinds. of liquor, I mean.

JK

(who is seven Long Island Iced Teas and a Sazerac away from arguing the timelines of Star Trek, looking for peer-reviewed science to explain season six of Buffy, and peeing on the floor. So noted)
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline tommy246

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #121 on: October 17, 2010, 04:57:03 PM »
why is it whatever time its the same 6 or 7 daft cunts on here .go get a job miss prickillia daushound jkuntill rev moon from the moonies kiilifeely and the newcomers who suck up to your  ball bags , and total respect to the people that matter on here who have positive input with no bitchyness thanks for all your support and input i like you also hope the mods save this site from the piosioned clicque who run people off here on a weekly basis
jan 06 neg
dec 08 pos cd4 505 ,16%, 1,500vl
april 09 cd4 635 ,16%,60,000
july 09 ,cd4 545,17%,80,000
aug 09,hosptal 18days pneumonia cd190,225,000,15%
1 week later cd4 415 20%
nov 09 cd4 591 ,vl 59,000,14%,started atripla
dec 09  cd4 787, vl 266, 16%
march 2010  cd4 720 vl non detectable -20  20%
june 2010  cd4  680, 21%, ND

Offline mpositive

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #122 on: October 17, 2010, 05:10:31 PM »

Hey Bocker...

I just felt that it would be easier to get it from me giving her oral.  Just seemed like getting the virus through the tip of the penis seems less likely than through the mouth.  Alas, I have learned otherwise, but am only saying what I thought and felt initially.  Still it does make me question things....
Who knows....   :)

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #123 on: October 17, 2010, 07:02:58 PM »
why is it whatever time its the same 6 or 7 daft cunts on here .go get a job miss prickillia daushound jkuntill rev moon from the moonies kiilifeely and the newcomers who suck up to your  ball bags , and total respect to the people that matter on here who have positive input with no bitchyness thanks for all your support and input i like you also hope the mods save this site from the piosioned clicque who run people off here on a weekly basis

OK. Thanks. Bye.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline klipsch

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #124 on: October 17, 2010, 10:04:40 PM »
I'll admit to "experimenting" and having anal sex once when I was about 21.
So HIV takes 15 years to develop? Anybody want share some scientific info on the possibility of that happening?
when shit has value...the poor will be born without assholes...

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #125 on: October 17, 2010, 11:02:59 PM »
So HIV takes 15 years to develop? Anybody want share some scientific info on the possibility of that happening?

I hope that is not what RR meant. The three month window is all but conclusive. And even for those whose immune systems are compromised through chemo or long-term IV drug use, six months is as far as science is able to discern. To the best of my knowledge, HIV testing science has not progressed past that. If someone has science to further that discussion, I urge them to post it.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline RapidRod

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #126 on: October 17, 2010, 11:06:41 PM »
I hope that is not what RR meant. The three month window is all but conclusive. And even for those whose immune systems are compromised through chemo or long-term IV drug use, six months is as far as science is able to discern. To the best of my knowledge, HIV testing science has not progressed past that. If someone has science to further that discussion, I urge them to post it.


No that is not what I meant or said I quoted klipsch's own post.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #127 on: October 17, 2010, 11:21:11 PM »
No that is not what I meant or said I quoted klipsch's own post.

Thanks, RR for that. Seems that some people would advance their agendas to the detriment of this site.

Again, I throw down the gauntlet. Talk to Mr Horn and the rest to change the site's stated transmission vectors, or GTFO.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline klipsch

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #128 on: October 17, 2010, 11:28:23 PM »
No that is not what I meant or said I quoted klipsch's own post.
Which I interpreted as your saying "I didn't contract HIV through oral sex. I most likely contracted it during that one time that I tried anal sex (15 years earlier)...or...it really happened more than just that one time". Please understand that there's no prize for contracting the virus via oral sex...so I really have no reason to say that I got HIV through that method verses sticking myself with a needle or letting the entire adult bookstore run a train on my ass. None of it changes the fact that I'm still HIV positive.  ::)
when shit has value...the poor will be born without assholes...

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #129 on: October 17, 2010, 11:59:13 PM »
There seems to BE a prize for acquiring HIV through an unlikely means. Some folks think that they claim a moral and mental superiority from doing "all the right things" and still getting HIV.

Others refuse to admit to behaviors that fall outside the norm.

Both explain why patient report is notoriously unreliable. Rather than see bulletholes and blaming the nearest gun, it is easier to point the gun at people and see if it fires.

The romero and page shafer studies did that for fifteen years - fully half of the studied pandemis - and proved that this particular gun does not, in fact, fire.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

I reiterate- get this site to change it's lessons, get the science to alter, take it up with Mr. Horn and Mr Valdez, even Ms Hoffman, or GTFO.

I am just a member. I have no say in what goes on. But I will be removed from this site before I endorse, by my silence or affirmation, misinformation regarding the science of HIV.

And I am not too proud to say that the science has proven these assertions incorrect, if one can produce studies subsequent to the Romero and Page shafer studies.

Let me know when that happens, and when the list of HIV transmission vectors broadens.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline klipsch

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #130 on: October 18, 2010, 12:37:22 PM »
I'm gonna throw myself on the sword here and say this very clearly. If I'm reading correctly that there are individuals that would actually advocate anything less than barrier use sex as  Risk Free Behavior...based solely on hard drives full of "scientific studies"...I must have stumbled smack dab into the original breeding ground of the Village Idiot.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 12:44:10 PM by klipsch »
when shit has value...the poor will be born without assholes...

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #131 on: October 18, 2010, 12:51:25 PM »
I'm gonna throw myself on the sword here and say this very clearly. If I'm reading correctly that there are individuals that would actually advocate anything less than barrier use sex as  Risk Free Behavior...based solely on hard drives full of "scientific studies"...I must have stumbled smack dab into the original breeding ground of the Village Idiot.

I don't see where that has happened. I have certainly not done this, and cannot see where anyone else has, either.

Are you referring to penetrative sex here? We know that insertive fellatio and cunnilingus are not considered HIV risks, and there is no definitive proof that receptive fellatio is more than a theoretical risk, based not only on the mechanisms by which HIV infects and targets specific cells, but where in the body infectious fluids are located.

I am puzzled by your post. Could you elaborate?





"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline klipsch

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #132 on: October 18, 2010, 01:06:36 PM »
I don't see where that has happened. I have certainly not done this, and cannot see where anyone else has, either.

We know that insertive fellatio and cunnilingus are not considered HIV risks

I am puzzled by your post. Could you elaborate?

So you feel 100% confident based on what you have read that HIV risks are 0% possible through oral sex??? I sincerely hope that you aren't one of those asked to go into high schools to inform teenagers about what are and are not safe sex practices.
when shit has value...the poor will be born without assholes...

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #133 on: October 18, 2010, 01:12:50 PM »
So you feel 100% confident based on what you have read that HIV risks are 0% possible through oral sex??? I sincerely hope that you aren't one of those asked to go into high schools to inform teenagers about what are and are not safe sex practices.

I believe that the only 100 percent safe sex is masturbation. It is called safer sex.

And define what you mean by oral sex. It has four meanings that I am aware of. I think I was clear, and this is not only what I have counseled in ASO situations, but also in schools and in risk assessment in this very forum. I assure you that I am nowhere near alone in this assessment, and I believe this is mirrored in our lessons on transmission, which I urge you to read.

I am rather proud to have had a hand in creating them.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline klipsch

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #134 on: October 18, 2010, 01:36:43 PM »
I believe that the only 100 percent safe sex is masturbation. It is called safer sex.

And define what you mean by oral sex. It has four meanings that I am aware of. I think I was clear, and this is not only what I have counseled in ASO situations, but also in schools and in risk assessment in this very forum. I assure you that I am nowhere near alone in this assessment, and I believe this is mirrored in our lessons on transmission, which I urge you to read.

I am rather proud to have had a hand in creating them.



Well...Some of the worlds top physicians in the New England area would never make the statement that oral sex is 100% safe...and I'll stick with my own behaviors and diagnosis. Believe me! I have gone forward, backward and sideways in regards to trying to determine how I contracted the virus. This is the internet and I am an anonymous name and picture on an open forum, and have no reason to lie about my previous sexual practices. It's not like I need to fear being found out about anything I haven't openly shared already. So again, I'll list in order of how I believe I contracted HIV...

Performing Cunnilingus on one of two woman...
Donating Blood Plasma at a clinic in 1996
Sharing a coke straw

Those are the ONLY activities I partook in from 1996-1998 that could have exposed me to the HIV virus. So, somewhere in the piles of medical studies out there...one of those three activities have been validated. If anybody wants to discredit that or tell me that it's not possible...then send me your address and I'll ship your Your Sign
when shit has value...the poor will be born without assholes...

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #135 on: October 18, 2010, 01:43:23 PM »
Well...Some of the worlds top physicians in the New England area would never make the statement that oral sex is 100% safe...and I'll stick with my own behaviors and diagnosis. Believe me! I have gone forward, backward and sideways in regards to trying to determine how I contracted the virus. This is the internet and I am an anonymous name and picture on an open forum, and have no reason to lie about my previous sexual practices. It's not like I need to fear being found out about anything I haven't openly shared already. So again, I'll list in order of how I believe I contracted HIV...

Performing Cunnilingus on one of two woman...
Donating Blood Plasma at a clinic in 1996
Sharing a coke straw

Those are the ONLY activities I partook in from 1996-1998 that could have exposed me to the HIV virus. So, somewhere in the piles of medical studies out there...one of those three activities have been validated. If anybody wants to discredit that or tell me that it's not possible...then send me your address and I'll ship your Your Sign

I have no agenda towards discrediting anyone. There is, however, not sufficient science to endorse your claim, and plenty to refute it.

I understand your hostility on some level, as you clearly have a personal stake in this. However, until/unless you can personally get past how you were infected, I do not understand how you can objectively make informed choices about your treatment.

I personally do not subscribe to 100% anything. What I can say is that there is no evidence that HIV can be, or has been passed through cunnilingus. I do not know how HIV could be spread through donating blood, and it is my understanding that the "sharing a coke straw" vector was ruled out  before 1995, long before even the Romero and Page Shafer serodiscordant studies were held and published.

Studies which I notice no one seems to want to address.

Like I keep repeating, if you believe that this site's lessons are dangerous, then by all means petition to have them amended.
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline wtfimpoz

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #136 on: October 18, 2010, 02:24:12 PM »
Well...Some of the worlds top physicians in the New England area would never make the statement that oral sex is 100% safe...and I'll stick with my own behaviors and diagnosis. Believe me! I have gone forward, backward and sideways in regards to trying to determine how I contracted the virus. This is the internet and I am an anonymous name and picture on an open forum, and have no reason to lie about my previous sexual practices. It's not like I need to fear being found out about anything I haven't openly shared already. So again, I'll list in order of how I believe I contracted HIV...

Performing Cunnilingus on one of two woman...
Donating Blood Plasma at a clinic in 1996
Sharing a coke straw

Those are the ONLY activities I partook in from 1996-1998 that could have exposed me to the HIV virus. So, somewhere in the piles of medical studies out there...one of those three activities have been validated. If anybody wants to discredit that or tell me that it's not possible...then send me your address and I'll ship your Your Sign

Personally, i believe you. We seem to confuse "unlikely" with "impossible" in discussions of HIV transmission.  Lightning striking a tree is very, very unlikely but I think we've all seen it happen, or even had it happen in our yards before.  There's room for speculation on the politics behind this, and I imagine that if the virus is ever cured we'll come to admit that there are vectors of transmission besides "unprotected anal and vaginal sex" and injection drug use.  Until then, its not in the interests of most pozzies to admit it, and its not a strong enough liklihood yet for most neggies to fear it.  This forum is filled with people who swear they got it from oral.  They're usually shoted down, belittled or discredited.  Even those who think they personally got it from oral like to include an addendum like "but I'm sure he had a stratospheric viral load" so as to make their account of what happened jive with with politically accepted explanations of transmission.  

The unintended political consequences of this message has been an ironic super-marginalization of those who are recently infected, as we "knew how to avoid it".  Straight men who swear they got it from sex must be on the "down low".  Gay men who get it are reckless and stupid.  Consequently, we see people grasping for straws of personal credibility.  "I got it from my long term partner who lied" is pretty popular, as are claims of rape and a bizarre series of urban legends about condom saboteurs and malicious infectors.  This of course just feeds the cycle of blame and paranoia.  In the long term, we and society as a whole would be better off readily admitting that many who are infected were infected through nontraditional means.
09/01/2009-neg
mid april, 2010, "flu like illness".
06/01/2010-weakly reactive ELISA, indeterminant WB
06/06/2010-reactive ELISA, confirmed positive.

DATE       CD4     %     VL
07/15/10  423     33    88k
08/28/10  489     19    189k
09/06/10-Started ATRIPLA
09/15/10  420     38    1400
11/21/10  517     25    51

Offline Joe K

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #137 on: October 18, 2010, 04:51:44 PM »
In the long term, we and society as a whole would be better off readily admitting that many who are infected were infected through nontraditional means.

If your above quote was indeed true, how do you propose we provide prevention information, without science as a guide? While we can't identify the cause of every infection and exceptions do exist, that does not negate the need to provide clear and concise prevention information. Decades of research indicate the substantiated methods of infection, but splitting hairs becomes bothersome when trying to promote a consistent prevention message. Whatever posters may believe, regarding their situations, is important, however, it can never be used to undermine the science based message that these forums provide.

Most posters understand how personal beliefs can color our world, but most agree that emotions or thoughts have no place in providing guidance regarding HIV. Where the conflict arises, is when a poster claims to be infected, through a vector not substantiated through science. There is a huge difference in something being possible, vs. probable. This site promotes the latest science regarding HIV infections and from what I have read, the issue here is one poster claiming a given transmission route, without any evidence, other than their opinion.

So other than throwing out our known prevention guidance, what do you propose we tell people, to avoid becoming infected? If you can get HIV from nontraditional sources, we are back to risk from virtually anything conceivable, without one scintilla of proof.

Offline bocker3

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #138 on: October 18, 2010, 05:37:46 PM »
There is a huge difference in something being possible, vs. probable. This site promotes the latest science regarding HIV infections and from what I have read, the issue here is one poster claiming a given transmission route, without any evidence, other than their opinion.

So other than throwing out our known prevention guidance, what do you propose we tell people, to avoid becoming infected? If you can get HIV from nontraditional sources, we are back to risk from virtually anything conceivable, without one scintilla of proof.

I think there is another possibility here.  We can assume that a poster is being as truthful as they can be.  I believe that science should be the foundation for guidance, but attacking someone as a liar because of how they state that they BELIEVE they were infected in utterly useless.

Anecdotes are not scientific studies, but neither are they universally false.  Everyone of us are an "anecdote" in how we became infected.  I assume I got it from unprotected anal sex (and science would back me up) -- but I do not KNOW that.  It's no different than anyone else -- very few of us can be 100% certain in how/when we became infected. 

I, for one, do believe that some poor souls have likely been infected via oral sex -- but I don't advocate that this means this is a vector that needs to be occupying time in folks heads.  I think oral sex is still "safer sex" -- as JK pointed out earlier -- only masturbation is 100% safe from HIV transmission.  A good analogy - someone was recently attacked by a shark off the coast of VA, but that isn't going to stop me from going swimming -- because the likelihood of it happening is so damned remote (not to the kid who got bit, however.....). 

I am stating what I have with an MPH degree under my belt -- with an Epidemiology and Biostatistics concentration.

So, in the interest of moving beyond this unwinnable debate, at the individual level -- can't we all just let it be.  Minds are not going to be changed here.

Hugs,
Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline WillyWump

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #139 on: October 18, 2010, 11:31:58 PM »
 In the long term, we and society as a whole would be better off readily admitting that many who are infected were infected through nontraditional means.

Meh, I got mine the good 'ol fashioned way... a drunken, coked up gang -bang.

-Will
POZ since '08

Last Labs-
11-6-14 CD4- 871, UD
6/3/14 CD4- 736, UD 34%
6/25/13 CD4- 1036, UD,
2/4/13, CD4 - 489, UD, 28%

Current Meds: Prezista/Epzicom/ Norvir
.

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #140 on: October 18, 2010, 11:47:40 PM »
Meh, I got mine the good 'ol fashioned way... a drunken, coked up gang -bang.

-Will

Scandalous!!



"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline aztecan

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #141 on: October 19, 2010, 12:50:17 AM »
Meh, I got mine the good 'ol fashioned way... a drunken, coked up gang -bang.

-Will

Well, since I have never injected drugs and, though I was breast fed, my mother remains HIV negative to this day, I would say I got it the same way Willy did.

Or, it was the 1,711th trip to the baths that did it. I'm pretty sure it was one or the other. Who can remember? It was 1980.

While I am required, by my employer, to say there is a minute statistical possibility of contracting HIV through oral sex, I have never, in my nearly 30 years of dealing with this pandemic, met anyone who contracted it that way.

Furthermore, the criteria needed to establish the risk factors and allow for transmission of HIV with this type of behavior, whether male to male, male to female or female to female, would be next to impossible to replicate.

Because of this, infection via oral sex would have to be treated as purely anecdotal.

Now, if you want to talk oral transmission, let's talk about syphilis, gonorrhea and chlamydia. Infections with those diseases via oral contact is very common.

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #142 on: October 19, 2010, 01:11:57 AM »
I have never, in my nearly 30 years of dealing with this pandemic, met anyone who contracted it that way.

Either have I in any real life support group I've attended the past two decades -- for some reason this is seemingly an internet manifestation.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline wtfimpoz

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Re: hiv infection by oral sex
« Reply #143 on: October 19, 2010, 01:50:12 AM »
Either have I in any real life support group I've attended the past two decades -- for some reason this is seemingly an internet manifestation.

I don't think real life begs the question of *how* one became infected quite as often as the internet.  I also don't think that actually seeing people roll their eyes and mutter under their breath encourages this sort of claim, regardles of its veracity. 

edited for spelling
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 02:05:58 AM by wtfimpoz »
09/01/2009-neg
mid april, 2010, "flu like illness".
06/01/2010-weakly reactive ELISA, indeterminant WB
06/06/2010-reactive ELISA, confirmed positive.

DATE       CD4     %     VL
07/15/10  423     33    88k
08/28/10  489     19    189k
09/06/10-Started ATRIPLA
09/15/10  420     38    1400
11/21/10  517     25    51

 


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