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Author Topic: Would You Get In The Car With These People? Phelps Family @ SCOTUS  (Read 1957 times)

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Offline tednlou2

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ABC NEWS reporter Terry Moran covers the Supreme Court case regarding the Westboro Baptist Church and protesting military funerals.  The thing that struck me was he actually got into the same vehicle with those nuts to do the interview.  You couldn't pay me to get into the same car.

So what do you guys think of the case?  Of course, these people are awful, awful people.  We have laws that you can't yell fire in a building.  We don't have total free speech.  Should there be a funeral clause?  I think so.  However, it was asked by some today whether telling someone they deserve to die could also be made against the law.  Someone on one of the cables asked what if you believed a war was unjust and told the parents their kid deserved to die because they committed war crimes.  Justice Alito also asked this.  Would that be made against the law?  I can't imagine saying something like that to anyone even if I did think a war was unjust.  But, should it be illegal?  What if the KKK, or anyone, killed your family, should you have the right to protest their funeral and say they are going to hell?  I'm just asking questions here.   

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/military-funeral-protest-suit-supreme-court-pastor-fred-felps-troops-funeral-free-speech-11818006 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/ns/nightly_news/#39546003

Offline weasel

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Re: Would You Get In The Car With These People? Phelps Family @ SCOTUS
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2010, 09:37:59 AM »


   The People from   Westboro Baptist Church WILL ALL BURN IN HELL !

   It is a FREAK  SHOW !

   It is NOT that far  off from the main stream  Midwest  thinking !   

   IF  I were in that car  Somebody  would be in big trouble  >:(

   They  have been APPROVED  !   By the Courts  to do whatever they care to do  :o

   GOD  HATES  THE PHELPS FAMILY !

  AND SO DO I !    FUCK THEM AND THIER  FREAK SHOW TO HELL !


                                                            Carl
 
" Live and let Live "

Offline Joe K

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Re: Would You Get In The Car With These People? Phelps Family @ SCOTUS
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2010, 02:17:56 PM »
So what do you guys think of the case?  Of course, these people are awful, awful people.  We have laws that you can't yell fire in a building.  We don't have total free speech.  Should there be a funeral clause?  I think so.  However, it was asked by some today whether telling someone they deserve to die could also be made against the law.  Someone on one of the cables asked what if you believed a war was unjust and told the parents their kid deserved to die because they committed war crimes.  Justice Alito also asked this.  Would that be made against the law?  I can't imagine saying something like that to anyone even if I did think a war was unjust.  But, should it be illegal?  What if the KKK, or anyone, killed your family, should you have the right to protest their funeral and say they are going to hell?  I'm just asking questions here.   

I believe that the Supreme Court will find that such speech is protected under the First Amendment. As I understand the case, the issue here is whether the speech rises to the level, to be consider criminal and as such, renders the church liable for the intentional infliction of distress on the soldiers family. As I have been following the case, I find the actions of the church to be no different, from those of the KKK or other "hate" groups and it has been reaffirmed many times, that hate speech is protected speech.

The issue of yelling "fire" in a theater, however is not protected speech, but there is a concrete reason why that is so. If you yell fire in a theater, there is a reasonable or forseeable expectation that serious injury could result from such an action. Therefore, the yelling of fire, can be construed as criminal conduct, which provides the basis for criminalizing such behavior. In the case of the church, yes there is a reasonable expectation that their signs may inflict emotional distress on the family, but does it rise to a level as to be considered criminal. I believe the court will rule that it does not and is protected speech.

The thing that struck me was he actually got into the same vehicle with those nuts to do the interview.  You couldn't pay me to get into the same car.

I have split your response, because I believe your approach to contesting the views of others, is somewhat misdirected.  Do I agree with what these people have done or how they protest? Absolutely not, however I will defend to my death their right to say it. Why? Because when you try to stifle speech, no matter how heinous, you risk dismantling the true power of the First Amendment. While you may find their speech offensive, others would disagree and everyone is entitled to their own opinion and most importantly, a modicum of respect.

When you refer to someone, who you do not agree with as "nuts", you weaken whatever argument you may have. I abhor what this church does and the message they spread. I can say this, because I can see and hear their own actions and words, however that is where my judgment must end. I believe that they are terribly misguided and hate filled people, because of what they do and say. Other than that, I have no right to judge them and unless I treat my foes, with the same dignity of my friends, I then become just like them.

You will never change hate, through intimidation, belittling or violence. You defeat hate, by presenting an alternative and that must always include respecting the other person. Anything less is unworthy of being you.

Offline Merlin

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Re: Would You Get In The Car With These People? Phelps Family @ SCOTUS
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2010, 06:48:02 PM »
The First amendment should clarify that free speech used to deliberately attack, threaten, harass, discriminate and cause violation to the general status quo & well being of an existing condition be disallowed.  ;D
I'll leave Hatred to those not strong enough to Love.

                            +++

Believe & The Power Of The Mind Transforms.
Make It Happen...

                            +++

I blame them for nothing.
I forgive them for everything.

---->> Mary J. Blige on dysfuctional parents

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Would You Get In The Car With These People? Phelps Family @ SCOTUS
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2010, 03:27:37 AM »
The First amendment should clarify that free speech used to deliberately attack, threaten, harass, discriminate and cause violation to the general status quo & well being of an existing condition be disallowed.  ;D

Then it would not actually be free speech.

Offline Ann

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Re: Would You Get In The Car With These People? Phelps Family @ SCOTUS
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2010, 09:19:38 AM »
While I agree that the First Amendment and free speech should be defended even when I do not agree with a person's message, I still think something should be done about these people.

Aren't there laws on the books against inciting a riot? To my mind, what Phelps is doing is inciting hate crimes and suicide. Does anyone see where I'm going with this? Are there laws against inciting crimes? ???

I suppose the difficult bit would be to prove that any hate crimes were committed as a direct result of Phelps's actions.
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Granny60

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Re: Would You Get In The Car With These People? Phelps Family @ SCOTUS
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2010, 09:46:41 PM »
The First amendment should clarify that free speech used to deliberately attack, threaten, harass, discriminate and cause violation to the general status quo & well being of an existing condition be disallowed.  ;D

Amen Brother, Amen! Those people are complete jerks. Those bigots are perverting the Bible and free speech. >:(

Granny60

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Re: Would You Get In The Car With These People? Phelps Family @ SCOTUS
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2010, 09:48:34 PM »
While I agree that the First Amendment and free speech should be defended even when I do not agree with a person's message, I still think something should be done about these people.

Aren't there laws on the books against inciting a riot? To my mind, what Phelps is doing is inciting hate crimes and suicide. Does anyone see where I'm going with this? Are there laws against inciting crimes? ???

I suppose the difficult bit would be to prove that any hate crimes were committed as a direct result of Phelps's actions.

They aren't inciting any crimes because there have not been any riots or car burnings YET.

Offline Joe K

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Re: Would You Get In The Car With These People? Phelps Family @ SCOTUS
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2010, 09:59:15 PM »
The First amendment should clarify that free speech used to deliberately attack, threaten, harass, discriminate and cause violation to the general status quo & well being of an existing condition be disallowed.  ;D

There are already laws that limit where free speech can be practiced. The church was protesting 1,000 feet from the church, where the police told them they could stand. You can limit where free speech occurs, but with few exceptions, you cannot limit the speech itself. This translate into a formidible defense, in that if the church cannot protest, even where the police said they could, then their first amendment rights have been violated, as there is nowhere that they can protest. This is far from an easy case on many levels.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Would You Get In The Car With These People? Phelps Family @ SCOTUS
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2010, 11:47:47 PM »
Amen Brother, Amen! Those people are complete jerks. Those bigots are perverting the Bible and free speech. >:(

How do you know they're perverting the Bible? From my reading of the Book it seems that Pastor Fred has interpreted it pretty well spot on.

MtD

Online Jeff G

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Re: Would You Get In The Car With These People? Phelps Family @ SCOTUS
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2010, 11:55:28 PM »
How do you know they're perverting the Bible? From my reading of the Book it seems that Pastor Fred has interpreted it pretty well spot on.

MtD

Blasphemer ! don't talk that way , I was looking forward to coming over to the Australian side when we get to heaven and visit you .

Offline madbrain

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Re: Would You Get In The Car With These People? Phelps Family @ SCOTUS
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2010, 12:07:06 AM »
They aren't inciting any crimes because there have not been any riots or car burnings YET.

There sure is no shortage of crime and violence against gays. And a lot of it has been in the news.
It's hard to say how much was caused by the Phelps' hate speech.

Offline denb45

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Re: Would You Get In The Car With These People? Phelps Family @ SCOTUS
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2010, 12:28:54 PM »

THE PHELPS FAMILY skirts very close to the edge of the laws of the land, however they have not broken any laws, and this is exactly what they want, to make you mad enough to attack them, it fuels there cause, it gives them purpose, they are hoping you break the law for them, that way you go to jail, and you get sued, that's what they are all about, if they sue you, that's how they finance there cause, however most people are civil in there actions, so, if you don't pay much attention to them, it greatly diminishes there cause, and that makes them less effective........I have seen them pack up and go else where, when people drove by and just laughed at them, and took pictures of them, like they were some freak show, that is what people did here in Albuquerque, NM when they came here, after they didn't get the reactions they wanted they soon left.......The Phelps are nothing more than Religious Fanatics and Modern day Gypsies, anyone with half a brain
in there head knows this......
« Last Edit: October 10, 2010, 05:50:25 PM by denb45 »
"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

 


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