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Author Topic: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event  (Read 5640 times)

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Offline tednlou2

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Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« on: September 24, 2010, 12:07:54 AM »
So what do you think about his answer?  See video below.  I hate those ads at the beginning of these videos, but it is short.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfUutEEAgDc

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2010, 12:09:10 AM »
What ad?

MtD

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2010, 12:11:20 AM »
Gotta give the man some credit for listening.  I would've had them all hauled off to guantanamo for questioning my absolute authority.  Then I would've kicked their puppies.

Offline aztecan

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2010, 12:16:42 AM »
Shrub wouldn't have even listened.

No, I am wrong. They could not have even gotten into the event. Bush used to select who was eligible to hear him speak. Naysayers were not allowed.

So, while I would like to hear him explain where funding was increased, I also don't doubt what he said is true regarding the republicans.

HUGS,

Mark
"May your life preach more loudly than your lips."
~ William Ellery Channing (Unitarian Minister)

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2010, 12:21:51 AM »
What ad?

MtD

No ad for you?  I had to watch this Nationwide insurance ad.  Maybe down under you guys aren't forced to watch those ads?? 

Offline Joe K

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2010, 12:26:00 AM »
It might help if they were more direct in WHICH funding was needed. I am a firm believer, that not one cent to fight HIV, should leave America, until our own pozzies needs are totally funded. At some point we need to stop taking care of everybody else and worry about Americans first.
Life is what happens, when you are busy making other plans.

Though you may be only one person in the entire world, to one person, you may be the entire world.

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Remember me with simple acts of kindness and I will live forever.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2010, 12:26:25 AM »
No ad for you?  I had to watch this Nationwide insurance ad.  Maybe down under you guys aren't forced to watch those ads?? 

Maybe. Such is the nature of life in a socialist paradise. :)

MtD

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2010, 12:27:42 AM »
Shrub wouldn't have even listened.

No, I am wrong. They could not have even gotten into the event. Bush used to select who was eligible to hear him speak. Naysayers were not allowed.

So, while I would like to hear him explain where funding was increased, I also don't doubt what he said is true regarding the republicans.

HUGS,

Mark


Exactly!  Weren't some arrested at Dubbya events just for wearing T-shirts with anti-Bush policy phrases on them, but not saying a word and kept totally quite?  I'm not sure how they got inside in the first place, because they did screen the audience so well.  

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2010, 12:27:51 AM »
It might help if they were more direct in WHICH funding was needed. I am a firm believer, that not one cent to fight HIV, should leave America, until our own pozzies needs are totally funded. At some point we need to stop taking care of everybody else and worry about Americans first.

Careful Joe, I've espoused exactly the same opinion on here before and been called a hateful racist as a result.  I'm not really sure how the two gee and haw, but I didn't really pay much attention anyway.

Offline Joe K

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2010, 12:32:57 AM »
I am hardly a racist, but how can you justify sending billions from America, when we don't even fund our own programs? They talk about Obama underfunding HIV, but we had waiting lists, etc. under Bush, so the problem persists. At some point, this country is going to have to make hard choices about what we can afford and I see no reason, why we cannot shift a couple hundred million to adequately fund programs for Americans, who pay the taxes, used to fund HIV services for everyone. There is enough money to do both and all I am suggesting is we get our priorities straight.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 12:37:34 AM by killfoile »
Life is what happens, when you are busy making other plans.

Though you may be only one person in the entire world, to one person, you may be the entire world.

I wish to become half the man, that my dog thinks I am.

Remember me with simple acts of kindness and I will live forever.

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2010, 12:37:54 AM »
I am hardly a racist, but how can you justify sending billions from America, when we don't even fund our own programs? They talk about Obama underfunding HIV, but we had waiting lists, etc. under Bush, so the problem persists. At some point, this country is going to have to make hard choices about what we can afford and I see no reason, why we cannot shift a couple hundred million to adequately fund programs for Americans, who pay the taxes, used to fund HIV services.

I agree 100% with you I'm just saying other people on here have wildly different ideas.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2010, 01:15:13 AM »
I have the videotape to prove my diversity.

But I agree with Joe. Our country's social services have been circling the drain for years. We need to spend our resources to build ourself back to that now/mythic "Amurricah" that we claim to be. Because at 10% unemployment and thousands of poor people without the HIV meds that will keep them alive, we are hardly in the position to blanket the world with our soldiers, our ideals, and our humanitarian aid.

If your house is on fire, it is charitable but unwise to lend your fire extinguisher to your neighbor.

I hate seeing people die, untreated, of AIDS in Africa and Tunisia. I hate seeing people homeless and hurting in Nigeria and Uganda.

But all I need to do is to check the ADAP list here in Georgia, check the Section 8 assisted housing list here in Georgia, to see the same damned thing.

Like the flight attendant says, please place the oxygen mask over your own face before securing it to the baby beside you.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline komnaes

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2010, 01:29:10 AM »
It might help if they were more direct in WHICH funding was needed. I am a firm believer, that not one cent to fight HIV, should leave America, until our own pozzies needs are totally funded. At some point we need to stop taking care of everybody else and worry about Americans first.

I know it's easy for me to say, as someone who's living in a place with universal health care.

But if one steps back a bit, to say that one country should not be funding overseas HIV treatment/prevention effects unless everyone in the said country are covered, isn't it like saying until and unless everyone's well provided for in that same country before humanitarian reliefs should be sent to foreign countries, or until and unless the said country is crime free before one should be spending on foreign peace keeping missions?
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Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2010, 01:42:12 AM »
I know it's easy for me to say, as someone who's living in a place with universal health care.

But if one steps back a bit, to say that one country should not be funding overseas HIV treatment/prevention effects unless everyone in the said country are covered, isn't it like saying until and unless everyone's well provided for in that same country before humanitarian reliefs should be sent to foreign countries, or until and unless the said country is crime free before one should be spending on foreign peace keeping missions?

Not exactly. I don't think we should be crime free. I don't think we should have all of our ducks in a row before doing things for others. But the ADAP crisis is beyond that.

We are gutting our own resources and depriving our citizens. No one seems to be addressing that.

I don't think people ought to heckle the President. But I don't think people should have to, either.

AIDS funding in the US, Veteran closed head injuries (and other vet issues), poverty... these things float to the top of the list of things I want our administration to handle. Right below that is foreign aid for AIDS and starvation, women's issues abroad, and human trafficking.

I am sure I will find more stuff, but those are things that tug my gut the most, and in that order.

I don't think this is racist. And I have no statistics or budgets to back up my views. I just donated five bucks to a thirteen year old boy who is trying, on Facebook, to rescue a group of dogs slated to be euthanized at an animal shelter in Los Angeles, clear across the country.

It is likely a hopeless cause. But it means the world to this kid.

We choose our battles, mostly with our gut.

I choose this.


"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2010, 01:50:49 AM »
I will often feel the same way about funding programs here first, but then I think letting people die in Africa would cause governments, which are already fragile there if existant at all, to collapse and we would have more places like Somolia.  I use to think we shouldn't spend billions on NASA until we fix problems here, but their discoveries have led to many benefits and provide jobs.  So, I'm always going back and forth my feelings. 

But I agree, there is no reason why we can't do both.  We've gotta stop spending trillions on wars and put that money here.  We've already spent over $1 Trillion on an unnecessary war and is expected to cost up to $3 Trillion by the time we're totally out and you add up all the medical costs for veterans. 

Offline mecch

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2010, 04:42:01 AM »
Maybe bOnO should have a pow pow with obAmA
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline edfu

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2010, 04:59:19 AM »
I'm not sure how they got inside in the first place, because they did screen the audience so well.  

Actually, they didn't.  This event may prove to be the first significant physical indication, other than polls, of how bad Obama's future may be.  In ultra-liberal Manhattan not only did he have to face hecklers, but he also could not sell out the ballroom at the Roosevelt Hotel, where the fund-raiser was held.  The ballroom holds 650, but only 450 tickets could be sold, and those only after a last-minute fire sale, in which the tickets were reduced from $500 to $100 and even $50.  That's quite shocking when we consider what would have happened if this fund-raiser had happened during the Presidential primary and election campaign, when we all still believed in Hope and Change.  

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-09-23/obamas-fire-sale/
« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 05:23:25 AM by edfu »
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

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Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2010, 09:30:06 AM »
Actually, they didn't.  This event may prove to be the first significant physical indication, other than polls, of how bad Obama's future may be.  In ultra-liberal Manhattan not only did he have to face hecklers, but he also could not sell out the ballroom at the Roosevelt Hotel, where the fund-raiser was held.  The ballroom holds 650, but only 450 tickets could be sold, and those only after a last-minute fire sale, in which the tickets were reduced from $500 to $100 and even $50.  That's quite shocking when we consider what would have happened if this fund-raiser had happened during the Presidential primary and election campaign, when we all still believed in Hope and Change.  

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-09-23/obamas-fire-sale/

That is a good point. When liberal comedian Jon Stewart goes on The Bill O'Reilly show and says he is disappointed in President Obama you know things are not looking good. I agree with the President that the Republicans will cut HIV funds if elected.

Stewart, who maintains he ultimately does not regret his vote for Obama, said he is "saddened" the president hasn't done more to change the structure of Washington.

"I thought we were in such a place [in 2008], much like the Tea Party feels now, that the country Ö needed a more drastic reconstruction Ė I have been saddened to see that someone who ran on the idea that you can't expect to get different results with the same people and the same system has kept in place so much of the same system and same people," Stewart said


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/23/stewart-saddened-by-obama/?iref=allsearch

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2010, 10:19:17 AM »
"We've increased AIDs funding, I dont know why your putting the sign up" - She's puttng the sign up because there are still 3000+ people on ADAP waiting lists! Wake up Mr. President. Yes you threw a bone by slightly increasing funding which now gives you the ability to beat your chest and say "We've increased AIDS funding", but there is much more to be done.

As far as Repubs cutting funding, why is he predicting what the future holds when he needs to ACT NOW under his Congress! It's just more politcal posturing at the expense of those going with out Meds. He needs to set the example and appropriate emergency funding to clear the waiting lists NOW, and let the repubs take the fall for cutting it if that happens. He's spent 2 years ignoring/dragging his feet on the issue and now he's potentially facing a tougher road on the issue if Republicans have a substantial showing in Nov.

Increasingly, I'm of the mind that nothing substantial will be done until 2014 when Obamacare will supposedly help these folks, however I'm still unclear as to how it will help them.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, It's time we seriously re-examine the Multi Billions we are sending to fund PepFAR.

-Will
« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 10:24:08 AM by WillyWump »
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Offline Ann

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #19 on: September 24, 2010, 10:21:17 AM »
[/size=9pt]That is a good point. When liberal comedian Jon Stewart goes on The Bill O'Reilly show and says he is disappointed in President Obama you know things are not looking good. I agree with the President that the Republicans will cut HIV funds if elected.

Stewart, who maintains he ultimately does not regret his vote for Obama, said he is "saddened" the president hasn't done more to change the structure of Washington.

"I thought we were in such a place [in 2008], much like the Tea Party feels now, that the country Ö needed a more drastic reconstruction Ė I have been saddened to see that someone who ran on the idea that you can't expect to get different results with the same people and the same system has kept in place so much of the same system and same people," Stewart said


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/23/stewart-saddened-by-obama/?iref=allsearch

I'm not surprised that someone like Steward is publicly saying he doesn't regret voting for Obama. Just think how much worse things would probably be now if McCain and Palin had gotten in instead. It just doesn't bear thinking about.

I'm exceedingly disappointed in Obama, but I don't regret that he's the one who got elected. I regret that he's turned out to be a disappointment though and I regret that the Democrats can't seem to find their balls and can't seem to find anyone with the leadership abilities to get the States out of the downward spiral it's in. It's downright scary.

It's like the year my mother promised - swore up and down - that my birthday wish would be granted and I would have a pony. I got a pony all right, it was about six inches high and made out of plastic. Yes, a childish example perhaps, but the gut feelings are the same and that broken promise set me on the road to cynicism.

And when you think about it, that plastic pony is akin to the bone Obama has thrown to people with hiv.
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Offline Jeff G

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #20 on: September 24, 2010, 10:40:53 AM »
"We've increased AIDs funding, I dont know why your putting the sign up" - She's puttng the sign up because there are still 3000+ people on ADAP waiting lists! Wake up Mr. President. Yes you threw a bone by slightly increasing funding which now gives you the ability to beat your chest and say "We've increased AIDS funding", but there is much more to be done.

As far as Repubs cutting funding, why is he predicting what the future holds when he needs to ACT NOW under his Congress! It's just more politcal posturing at the expense of those going with out Meds. He needs to set the example and appropriate emergency funding to clear the waiting lists NOW, and let the repubs take the fall for cutting it if that happens. He's spent 2 years ignoring/dragging his feet on the issue and now he's potentially facing a tougher road on the issue if Republicans have a substantial showing in Nov.

Increasingly, I'm of the mind that nothing substantial will be done until 2014 when Obamacare will supposedly help these folks, however I'm still unclear as to how it will help them.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, It's time we seriously re-examine the Multi Billions we are sending to fund PepFAR.

-Will


Last year my HIV medicines cost medicare $26,000.00 . The same cost for a comparable drug treatment in a developing country was $88.00 a year .

If we were to cut off aid to people in need who have absolutely no other options we have ignored the real reason there is a crisis in funding in the first place . The real problem is the cost of health care in this country and the astronomical profit drug company's are making by picking the pockets of sick people who will die if we don't pony up our last dime . 

Offline WillyWump

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #21 on: September 24, 2010, 11:01:59 AM »

Last year my HIV medicines cost medicare $26,000.00 . The same cost for a comparable drug treatment in a developing country was $88.00 a year .

If we were to cut off aid to people in need who have absolutely no other options we have ignored the real reason there is a crisis in funding in the first place . The real problem is the cost of health care in this country and the astronomical profit drug company's are making by picking the pockets of sick people who will die if we don't pony up our last dime . 

Agreed that the problem is more than the funding of Pepfar. However I have ZERO problems taking a measly 200million or so out of the 7 Billlion Obama has requested for PepFar  FY2011, and put pressure on the other countries Saudi Arabia among many others to step up to the plate and help out with Pepfar funding.

-Will
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Offline Jeff G

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #22 on: September 24, 2010, 11:18:10 AM »
Agreed that the problem is more than the funding of Pepfar. However I have ZERO problems taking a measly 200million or so out of the 7 Billlion ABM has requested for Pepper's FY2011, and put pressure on the other countries Saudi Arabia among many others to step up to the plate and help out with Pepfar funding.

-Will

My view may seem radical to some but one thing we can agree on is there should be no waiting list for sick people to receive life saving treatments .  :)

Offline littleprince

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #23 on: September 24, 2010, 05:26:25 PM »
Quote
Last year my HIV medicines cost medicare $26,000.00 . The same cost for a comparable drug treatment in a developing country was $88.00 a year .

If we were to cut off aid to people in need who have absolutely no other options we have ignored the real reason there is a crisis in funding in the first place . The real problem is the cost of health care in this country and the astronomical profit drug company's are making by picking the pockets of sick people who will die if we don't pony up our last dime . 


And how much did drug companies from developing countries spend on R&D last year? $0? I'm happy for drug companies to keep charging you (and me) $26,000 a year as long as they keep spending billions on new drug development.

Offline Jeff G

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2010, 05:46:09 PM »

And how much did drug companies from developing countries spend on R&D last year? $0? I'm happy for drug companies to keep charging you (and me) $26,000 a year as long as they keep spending billions on new drug development.

If people in developing countries don't get HIV meds they will die . There are no boarders or imaginary lines between human beings , we are all brothers and sisters and some where my brother and sister can live another year for $ 88.00 .

I do respect that people have different opinions than mine but for me I just cant seem to see it any other way when you get down to the heart of the matter .

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2010, 05:56:23 PM »
If people in developing countries don't get HIV meds they will die . There are no boarders or imaginary lines between human beings , we are all brothers and sisters and some where my brother and sister can live another year for $ 88.00 .

I do respect that people have different opinions than mine but for me I just cant seem to see it any other way when you get down to the heart of the matter .
I agree "J" - while my initial human emotions of anger may kick in when I see waitlists for treatment and people not able to afford their meds here in the US - I have to remember that - like it or not - we are in a global economy and what pulls down one part of the world will soon enough undoubtedly affect another part of the world.  So, not to treat those in third world countries and provide access to care - particularly with some of the extremely high rates of infection will eventually impact on us in a detrimental way even more so then we may be feeling the impact already and in more areas of our lives.

It is normal to feel frustration - particularly when we know that there is so much waste occurring and so many other "priorities" that seem to outweigh providing appropriate and affordable access to care.  What always gets me is that here in Miami we have buses driving around with full size ads that say "Know Your Status - Get Tested, Get Treated."  Except with the waitlist we have one can get tested, but can't get treated - eventually, many will probably say what is the use of getting tested, if I can't get treatment.
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10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline mecch

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2010, 06:14:34 PM »
I haven't given up hope on Obama.  But he could show more grit thats for sure.  This week some of the insurance regulation went into effect. That's pretty amazing.  Have to keep up the fight and the pressure.
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline edfu

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2010, 08:53:42 PM »
I would remind everyone that last December, when the Health-Care Reform Bill was still in contention, before it was eviscerated and became the Health-Insurance Companies' Increased Profit Bill, the White House did everything it could to see that  the bipartisan Drug-Importation plan was defeated.  This would have allowed Americans to import F.D.A.-approved drugs manufactured in F.D.A.-approved facilities, such as in Canada, saving up to $8 billion a year.  Think of what this might have meant for the beleaguered ADAP program.   The White House, however, made a backroom deal with Big Pharma to oppose it, even though Obama had supported the proposal during the election. 

This resulted in a sad thread here, and for those who'd like to revisit some relevant history:

http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=30374.0

As you can see, my outrage at this at the time resulted in my being called an "overly verklempt homosexual" (is there any other kind  ;)?), immature, and, basically, an old fart.  Such is life at AIDSmeds.com.  Gee, how's that "HHS bill in the near future...to import drugs," which one poster believed, since David Axelrod (leaving the White House in 2011) said it, coming along? 
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

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Offline bocker3

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2010, 11:08:05 PM »
If people in developing countries don't get HIV meds they will die . There are no boarders or imaginary lines between human beings , we are all brothers and sisters and some where my brother and sister can live another year for $ 88.00 .

I do respect that people have different opinions than mine but for me I just cant seem to see it any other way when you get down to the heart of the matter .

It's a great dream, but unfortunately there ARE borders and imaginary lines between human beings.  One has to deal with reality, not a fantasy utopia.

However -- no one has said that nothing should go to other countries, what they are saying is that the US should take care of it's own (with it's own tax dollars) and then send money abroad.  A reasonable take, IMO.  It's analogous to a family that can't quite feed all of it's members -- they probably aren't sending any jars of peanut butter to the local Food Pantry.  In fact, if they were giving food away, while their children starved to death -- they'd probably lose custody of their children.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
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Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2010, 12:04:21 AM »
I'm exceedingly disappointed in Obama, but I don't regret that he's the one who got elected. I regret that he's turned out to be a disappointment though and I regret that the Democrats can't seem to find their balls and can't seem to find anyone with the leadership abilities to get the States out of the downward spiral it's in. It's downright scary. 

I agree about the Democrat's missing testes however I still think Hillary Clinton would have done a better job. She strikes me as more savvy at playing the Washington game and more determined to push her own agenda. I truly believe she would have made a stronger effort than Obama to removed DADT. Obama has met my expectations in terms of his performance so far.

Offline tednlou2

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2010, 01:58:23 AM »
I agree about the Democrat's missing testes however I still think Hillary Clinton would have done a better job. She strikes me as more savvy at playing the Washington game and more determined to push her own agenda. I truly believe she would have made a stronger effort than Obama to removed DADT. Obama has met my expectations in terms of his performance so far.

I felt Hillary was so hated by the right that nothing would get done.  And, I didn't like the Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton thing.  Obama has actually gotten a lot done.  However, I do feel he tries to be too diplomatic and compromises too much.  Elections have consequences and Dems should have pushed their weight around like the repubs did.  The Senate use to force senators to follow through on their threats to filibuster by reading phone books for hours.  Now, all they have to do is threaten to filibuster and it shuts everything down.  They should force them to get up there and read the phone book non-stop.  Obama needs to get a little Bush in him.  As much as I detested Bush's feeling that he was a king, I think just a little of that would help Obama.  The Dems should go around campaigning on health reform and explaining it to people instead of running from it.  They have put off DADT and tax cuts for the rich until after the elections.  If we lose power, none of this will get done in time between the election and January when repubs would take back power. 

I was recently talking to an ADAP counselor about funding.  He said no other group, such as cancer patients, get funding like this to help with their meds.  I'm still processing his statement.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2010, 06:41:46 AM »
I agree about the Democrat's missing testes however I still think Hillary Clinton would have done a better job. She strikes me as more savvy at playing the Washington game and more determined to push her own agenda. I truly believe she would have made a stronger effort than Obama to removed DADT. Obama has met my expectations in terms of his performance so far.

Her administration would have the same people in it -- the White House isn't run by one person.  There are many gate keepers.  I would see little to know difference, and with DADT I think the reverse it true -- as a woman she'd show greater deference to the military views on this issue.
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2010, 06:44:59 AM »
Her administration would have the same people in it -- the White House isn't run by one person.  There are many gate keepers.  I would see little to know difference, and with DADT I think the reverse it true -- as a woman she'd show greater deference to the military views on this issue.

She would probably have a lot of the same people but not all of the same people.  I also agree with Ted that I think she would have had more balls.  Obama is too willing to compromise where I believe Hillary would have been out for blood.  She knows the Republicans are not going to play fair as she's been at this game a lot longer than he has.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2010, 08:38:38 AM »
She would probably have a lot of the same people but not all of the same people.  I also agree with Ted that I think she would have had more balls.  Obama is too willing to compromise where I believe Hillary would have been out for blood.  She knows the Republicans are not going to play fair as she's been at this game a lot longer than he has.

How old were you during the Clinton years?  They often rolled over in terms of compromise -- think healthcare.

Anyway, you can't analyze what didn't happen and it's disingenuous.  But hey, you're the "moderate" as you've told us three times recently :)
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2010, 08:58:50 AM »
I was recently talking to an ADAP counselor about funding.  He said no other group, such as cancer patients, get funding like this to help with their meds.  I'm still processing his statement.

Yet another example of the inefficiency of the US healthcare industry. We shouldn't need ADAP, Ryan White, pharmaceutical assistance or even Medicare or Medicaid. We should have universal healthcare where HIV is treated like any other medical condition. Obviously the majority of Americans don't agree.

Offline Ann

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #35 on: September 25, 2010, 09:06:42 AM »
and with DADT I think the reverse it true -- as a woman she'd show greater deference to the military views on this issue.

This woman wouldn't! What a sweeping generalisation.

Yet another example of the inefficiency of the US healthcare industry. We shouldn't need ADAP, Ryan White, pharmaceutical assistance or even Medicare or Medicaid. We should have universal healthcare where HIV is treated like any other medical condition. Obviously the majority of Americans don't agree.

Absolutely!!!
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #36 on: September 25, 2010, 09:59:28 AM »
She would probably have a lot of the same people but not all of the same people.  I also agree with Ted that I think she would have had more balls.  Obama is too willing to compromise where I believe Hillary would have been out for blood.  She knows the Republicans are not going to play fair as she's been at this game a lot longer than he has.

You do realise the Clinton Administration implemented DADT.

Offline Joe K

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2010, 12:39:01 PM »
Yet another example of the inefficiency of the US healthcare industry. We shouldn't need ADAP, Ryan White, pharmaceutical assistance or even Medicare or Medicaid. We should have universal healthcare where HIV is treated like any other medical condition. Obviously the majority of Americans don't agree.

I believe the majority of Americans want universal health, as shown by the outrage when they dropped the public option. If the Democrats had held firm and based reform around a public option, I think most Americans would adapt and eventually be very grateful for the change. That one change, could begin the remodeling of the American health care system. However, until you remove the "profit" from providing health services, you will never really change the system, no matter how hard you may try.
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2010, 12:46:28 PM »
This woman wouldn't! What a sweeping generalisation.


read: as a woman (Hillary) on the Armed Services Committee -- it's why she supported the war in Iraq.  Try reading the entire thread dear -- you complain about other people here not doing the same.

But yeah, I'm just a woman hater we all know this... jeesh
« Last Edit: September 25, 2010, 12:48:06 PM by Miss Philicia »
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Offline Ann

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2010, 12:57:39 PM »
read: as a woman (Hillary) on the Armed Services Committee -- it's why she supported the war in Iraq.  Try reading the entire thread dear -- you complain about other people here not doing the same.

But yeah, I'm just a woman hater we all know this... jeesh

I never said you hate women, I know you don't, I only said you made a sweeping generalisation. Jeesh yourself.

I still don't see what her being a woman has to do with her support of war. Quite the contrary, more women oppose war than men.

When you said "as a woman she'd show greater deference to the military views" you  implied that as a woman, she'd roll over when confronted by the big bad men in their sexy uniforms. That may not be what you meant, but to me, it sure read that way.
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2010, 01:13:33 PM »

When you said "as a woman she'd show greater deference to the military views" you  implied that as a woman, she'd roll over when confronted by the big bad men in their sexy uniforms. That may not be what you meant, but to me, it sure read that way.

Her past history exhibits this -- sorry if you've not been following US politics closely enough the past 8 years.  At any rate it's all hypothetical stuff.  She's always come off as more of war monger than Obama, heavily influenced/deferential to the military in her capacity on that committee.  Those are the facts.

That's why the *cough* "professional left" didn't support her primary bid.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2010, 01:16:38 PM by Miss Philicia »
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Offline Ann

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2010, 01:38:04 PM »
She's always come off as more of war monger than Obama, heavily influenced/deferential to the military in her capacity on that committee.

It still has nothing to do with her gender. ::)

You should have said something like "due to her past history..." - that would have more accurately portrayed what you wanted to say.
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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline pozniceguy

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2010, 02:14:01 PM »
Looks like the subject has drifted significantly from AIDS funding  to  BS  about "possible"  political outcomes..... the reality of producing a budget with all the hundreds of different inputs from  thousands of sources is a very complex, and mind boggling procedure.....no matter what the current "political" team thinks or does
the overwhelming  portions of the budget are put together in 5 yr  rolling plans... the items you see and read about are the last few issues that usually are political fodder,and are subject to the  "disease of the week" syndrome  which could be any subject at all  from veteran care to cruelty to animals to floods in Pakistan
Much as I agree with the take care of your own first  ideas  I also understand the Political necessity of dealing with the International community....  without digressing too far i would start by cutting funding to the UN  which is now run by  the inmates and we pay the lions' share of the bills to have the Iranians and others come here to criticize and repudiate us as they spend our money to further their own agenda....

so budget is a huge issue and not easily changed by any one individual or even a group.....  I always get back to be careful what you wish for....Vote  carefully...be sure your candidate is supporting your ideas/wishes and has the clout/balls/political will to get it done......    Obama was/is a lightweight in the Political arena...  even many of his supporters are now discovering that fact..... speculating on what someone else would/could do is just Hot Air.....    once you have the Job it is yours for good or bad  ....  no amount of blaming the last guy changes that...you won  now produce is the only guiding words needed here....so good for all those who spoke up  ( hecklers)  and I hope many more do so

Nick
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #43 on: September 25, 2010, 06:25:01 PM »
It still has nothing to do with her gender. ::)

You should have said something like "due to her past history..." - that would have more accurately portrayed what you wanted to say.

No, woman have to go further with the military industrial complex. That's why neocons salivate with her -- they know what she'd have to do to prove her mettle.  This ain't a tea party.
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Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #44 on: September 25, 2010, 06:33:05 PM »
You do realise the Clinton Administration implemented DADT.

You do realize that DADT at the time was an advance over the complete ban of homosexuals from joining the military, right?

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #45 on: September 25, 2010, 07:33:26 PM »
... the voice of moderation
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Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #46 on: September 25, 2010, 07:43:36 PM »
... the voice of moderation

You're so cute when you don't understand words and you just keep reiterating them.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #47 on: September 25, 2010, 08:20:43 PM »
You're so cute when you don't understand words and you just keep reiterating them.

fascinating analysis... I think I need a tissue
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Offline bocker3

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #48 on: September 25, 2010, 08:21:53 PM »
You do realize that DADT at the time was an advance over the complete ban of homosexuals from joining the military, right?

That is where you are wrong!!

 I joined the Military during the ban and left because of DADT.  Once the actually codified the fact that being a homosexual, per se, was not a reason to be barred from the military, only being open about it -- well, it became to much to handle.  So -- I told everyone who would listen.

So -- for you to say it was an "advance" is asinine at best and ignorant at worst.  It wasn't an advance, rather it really stated that it wasn't the homosexual that was the "problem" in the military -- it was the reactions of others to the homosexual that was the problem.  Not an advance at all -- from my, inside, perspective.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
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Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #49 on: September 25, 2010, 10:38:22 PM »
That is where you are wrong!!

 I joined the Military during the ban and left because of DADT.  Once the actually codified the fact that being a homosexual, per se, was not a reason to be barred from the military, only being open about it -- well, it became to much to handle.  So -- I told everyone who would listen.

So -- for you to say it was an "advance" is asinine at best and ignorant at worst.  It wasn't an advance, rather it really stated that it wasn't the homosexual that was the "problem" in the military -- it was the reactions of others to the homosexual that was the problem.  Not an advance at all -- from my, inside, perspective.

Mike

Call it what you will but it's still wrong.  Having a tacit understanding that as long as you're not open about your sexuality you can serve still beats being drummed out if you're at any point found to be or assumed to be a homosexual.  You just kind of made mecch's point for him though.  Why would you want to serve an organization that didn't want you in it, specifically to fight wars of aggression?

It was a half step in the right direction, with the ultimate goal being complete acceptance.  You personally don't agree but that's a personal issue with the policy.

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #50 on: September 25, 2010, 10:59:01 PM »
When I joined the Air Force ROTC in 1984 the officer directly asked me "have you ever engaged in homosexual activity?" I said no and was hoping he would seductively respond "would you like to?" but he said "well that's good."
He then continued with the inquisition interview.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2010, 11:02:03 PM by GSOgymrat »

Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #51 on: September 25, 2010, 11:19:27 PM »
I believe the majority of Americans want universal health, as shown by the outrage when they dropped the public option. If the Democrats had held firm and based reform around a public option, I think most Americans would adapt and eventually be very grateful for the change. That one change, could begin the remodeling of the American health care system. However, until you remove the "profit" from providing health services, you will never really change the system, no matter how hard you may try.

Americans want everyone to have healthcare (except illegals) but they don't want taxes raised (unless it is other people's taxes), they don't want the government to run it (because corporations are more trustworthy), they don't want their healthcare "rationed" (even though all healthcare is rationed), and they don't want it to be called "socialized medicine" (even if it is).

Offline bocker3

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #52 on: September 25, 2010, 11:29:51 PM »
Call it what you will but it's still wrong.  Having a tacit understanding that as long as you're not open about your sexuality you can serve still beats being drummed out if you're at any point found to be or assumed to be a homosexual.  You just kind of made mecch's point for him though.  Why would you want to serve an organization that didn't want you in it, specifically to fight wars of aggression?

It was a half step in the right direction, with the ultimate goal being complete acceptance.  You personally don't agree but that's a personal issue with the policy.

I think you've lost your ability to read....  How is it "better" to know that the military isn't saying the fact that you are a homosexual is the problem, but rather the fact that other's will be bothered by it if they know, so be quiet??
I understand the nuance there is tough to grasp, but I have faith that you can -- if you try hard.

As for Mecch's point -- he doesn't have a cogent one.  Neither he nor you have the right to call anyone's wish to serve in the military as anything but right.  You two needn't serve if you don't want, but how fucking dare you question the motives (or intelligence) of someone else who wishes to serve.  Now, if you want to opine on the policy (set by civilians, I might add), go for it -- I'll be in your camp there.  DADT must end, but leave the motives of those who wish to serve out of it.

Finally -- all wars are about aggression sweetie -- I've yet to see a "war of non-aggression".   ::)

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
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Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2010, 11:38:30 PM »
I think you've lost your ability to read....  How is it "better" to know that the military isn't saying the fact that you are a homosexual is the problem, but rather the fact that other's will be bothered by it if they know, so be quiet??
I understand the nuance there is tough to grasp, but I have faith that you can -- if you try hard.

As for Mecch's point -- he doesn't have a cogent one.  Neither he nor you have the right to call anyone's wish to serve in the military as anything but right.  You two needn't serve if you don't want, but how fucking dare you question the motives (or intelligence) of someone else who wishes to serve.  Now, if you want to opine on the policy (set by civilians, I might add), go for it -- I'll be in your camp there.  DADT must end, but leave the motives of those who wish to serve out of it.

Finally -- all wars are about aggression sweetie -- I've yet to see a "war of non-aggression".   ::)

Mike

You're hopelessly devoted to your ideas on this issue so this isn't worth discussing with you.  You're at odds with yourself on it.  I didn't call anyone stupid and I really do wish you'd stop speaking for me or speaking to me condescendingly simply because you do not agree with what I'm saying.  I understand quite well what I'm saying and why I think you're totally wrong about the majority of it.  We simply disagree.  The tone and complete lack of any tact whatsoever all of you are using with Mecch is absolutely fucking repugnant.  You disagree about something that neither of you has any level of involvement in (any longer) so if you disagree can't you be adults and do so politely?

I swear y'all are all acting like children.

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2010, 11:49:39 PM »
You do realize that DADT at the time was an advance over the complete ban of homosexuals from joining the military, right?

Like most of your posts it didn't advance a thing.

Offline Rev. Moon

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #55 on: September 26, 2010, 12:01:41 AM »
The tone and complete lack of any tact whatsoever all of you are using with Mecch is absolutely fucking repugnant.  You disagree about something that neither of you has any level of involvement in (any longer) so if you disagree can't you be adults and do so politely?

Trey, why are you getting so worked up?  You could say this in a more intelligent way.  Step back for a moment and reassess your behavior in this thread.
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #56 on: September 26, 2010, 05:12:38 AM »
Trey, you've become a very angry young guy lately -- is there something wrong?
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Offline mecch

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #57 on: September 26, 2010, 01:58:13 PM »
I was recently talking to an ADAP counselor about funding.  He said no other group, such as cancer patients, get funding like this to help with their meds.  I'm still processing his statement.

Well maybe the government and the public should think of HAART funding as simply cost effective.  Most people who get diagnosed and get treated when necessary these days, keep working, pay their taxes, and dont costs thousands of dollars a day in hospital visits.  I wonder, is there an equivalent for the cost effectiveness to society, of providing drugs, for another fatal disease?
ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Obama Heckled ON HIV/AIDS Funding At NY Event
« Reply #58 on: September 26, 2010, 11:38:56 PM »
You're hopelessly devoted to your ideas on this issue so this isn't worth discussing with you.

LOL++
"Iíve slept with enough men to know that Iím not gay"

 


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