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Author Topic: Presidential Character and Courage in 1948 and 2010, DADT and Common Sense  (Read 1503 times)

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Offline ColtbearNJ

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I, like countless others, bought into Obama's "Change You Can Believe In" campaign promises, only now to find how truly cowardly he has remained, especially regarding DADT, DOMA, the wake of Katrina and the Gulf oil spill.  Why doesn't he issue an Executive Order as Truman did in 1948 integrating all races of military forces?  Prejudice is prejudice, no matter the the time or place.  Though it took several years, Truman's order WAS finally accepted by everyone, especially high-ranking military personnel.  Despite all of Obama's promises, any gay man or lesbian, whether in the armed services or not, is still relegated to 2nd class citizen status without equal rights.  The fact that the same gays and lesbians who are risking their lives every day and in fact, many who have already died serving their country makes it all the more shameful.  An Executive Order from Obama similar to Truman's to finally and unequivocally end this prejudice, intolerance and hypocrisy has been and remains LONG overdue.

Going off-topic a moment, when Reagan let stand the firing all of the air traffic controllers who were on strike, opening the door to labor to completely disregard unions and do anything they wished from that point on, when Clinton took office, one of the first things he did was to offer those same air traffic controllers their jobs back.  Though many had moved on, many also accepted, and his action made me proud to be American.  Back on topic, Obama has the same opportunity to do the same here, by repealing DADT, DOMA and correcting what should have been corrected LONG ago in New Orleans regarding its citizens, Katrina and the rebuilding of their homes and an offer to once again live the lives in the homes they had no control over losing.

The above issues are not rocket science, and not beholden to ANY political party.  They amount to the basic tenets of treating ALL American citizens first, fairly, and with simple common sense - the way that they themselves in similar situations would like (and especially, DESERVE) to be treated.

On July 26, 1948, President Harry S. Truman issued Executive Order 9981, establishing equality of treatment and opportunity in the Armed Services for people of all races, religions or national origins.  Now, 62 years later, does Obama not have the character to stand behind his promises and courage to simply enter two words - "sexual orientation" to that Executive Order?  By his following basic common sense and the majority of public and political opinion (not to mention the fact "that all men are created equal"), by repealing DADT and being progressive enough to set an example already in place by many other major foreign countries, I (as well as countless others), would once again be especially PROUD to be an American.


Offline GSOgymrat

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Re: Presidential Character and Courage in 1948 and 2010, DADT and Common Sense
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2010, 04:52:24 PM »

On July 26, 1948, President Harry S. Truman issued Executive Order 9981, establishing equality of treatment and opportunity in the Armed Services for people of all races, religions or national origins.  Now, 62 years later, does Obama not have the character to stand behind his promises and courage to simply enter two words - "sexual orientation" to that Executive Order? 

The impression that I have of President Obama is that, for better or worse, he prefers consensus rather than making directives. He tries to win people over to his way of thinking and compromising. It seems to be a trait not only of President Obama but also of the Democratic Party. I don't say this as a criticism but as an observation.

Offline mecch

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Re: Presidential Character and Courage in 1948 and 2010, DADT and Common Sense
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2010, 05:21:05 PM »
Yeah and how well has consensus worked for Obama, and us, so far.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline ColtbearNJ

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Re: Presidential Character and Courage in 1948 and 2010, DADT and Common Sense
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2010, 05:59:28 PM »
To GSOgymrat:  One has to keep in mind that these were actual promises Obama made to his gay constituency which certainly helped make him President.  And that office makes him the "Commander-In-Chief" of all Armed Forces - so a long overdue Executive Order extremely similar to Truman's in 1948 seems a logical, expedient way to keep all of those promises he made to us.  Not only that, any furor created by such an order would likely die down before he's up for re-election in 2012.

I agree with mecch - sometimes personal convictions, character, keeping your promises and simply doing the right thing is to truly lead by example, not by any consensus which entitled him to make all of those promises in the first place.  I appreciate both of your replies.

Offline mecch

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  • red pill? or blue pill?
Re: Presidential Character and Courage in 1948 and 2010, DADT and Common Sense
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2010, 06:41:53 PM »
And yeah, a year ago I learned about how easy and powerful an executive order would be, for nulling DADT.

It seems hypocritical of Obama, to have said, OK for the Afghan surge, when we could guess that was purely political and a gift to the military and the hawks in government.  So he should have said - quid pro quo - you get your filthy stupid bloody wasteful war, and I get my executive order and you fucking deal with it. Bye bye!
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline bocker3

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Re: Presidential Character and Courage in 1948 and 2010, DADT and Common Sense
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2010, 07:46:00 PM »
I (as well as countless others), would once again be especially PROUD to be an American.

Well, I'm not among your "countless".  While I am not proud of many things our politicians do, I am very proud to be an American.  It's easy to focus on the problems (especially when they hit you personally), but one shouldn't forget the good.  When something bad happens in the world, where do folks look for help -- Yep -- the US. 

And before you go off on me, let me state -- I am a gay veteran -- having served in Iraq during Desert Storm, so I know, firsthand, the hardship of living a lie in order to serve.  I want DADT to end and I want to end as quick as possible.  I spent months missing my partner and unable to voice that, while I listened to everyone else go on and on about their wives, girlfriends.
You are, however -- in my opinion, being a bit naive.  I'm fairly certain that Obama can not issue an Executive Order that "stops" a law (and good or bad DADT is the law of the land).  He could, however, issue an order that stops discharges for some period of time.  I'm not a lawyer and may be wrong, but I think I got this right.

So, while you are entitled to feel as you feel -- I think you are simply focusing on specific issues and neglecting all that is good about the US.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
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Offline tednlou2

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Re: Presidential Character and Courage in 1948 and 2010, DADT and Common Sense
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2010, 11:58:02 PM »
I saw on the news that Obama had made a political deal to NOT make an executive order in order to allow Congress to gather the votes needed to do it themselves.  And, what I didn't realize was that the vote yesterday that was stopped by repubs wouldn't have automatically gotten rid of DADT.  It only granted the Pentagon the right to get rid of it. 

Now that Congress couldn't get it done, Obama could use his stop-loss powers to stop discharges tonight if he wanted.  He needs to do that!  This is a national security matter. 

The Obama Justice Dept is expected to decide by tomorrow whether to appeal the recent ruling brought by the Log Cabin Repubs that said DADT was unconstitutional.  It has been tradition for an administration to appeal rulings like these that go against current laws.  They don't have to do this if they agree the law is unconstitutional as I believe Obama does.  So, we'll see what happens.  I found it interesting that most repubs blocked the vote saying dems were just trying to gain votes for the mid-terms.  That is no reason to block a vote.  They not only blocked the vote, they blocked any debate.  In the past, this didn't happen.  They would at least debate a certain issue.  If anything, I could only see voting to overturn DADT would only hurt dems as repubs would use it against them--even though 75% of Americans believe it should be done away with. 

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Presidential Character and Courage in 1948 and 2010, DADT and Common Sense
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2010, 12:36:10 AM »
He won't. I loved the man, and rallied for him, but he forgot the game he was getting into. The Republicans have been a party of "no" for a long time. He should have had better people around him to tell him that.

He could sign an executive order. But that would mean the House and maybe the Senate in November. Had he done this a YEAR ago, in the middle of the healthcare idiocy, it would have been a secondary - and forgotten - issue. Now, its too late. He dare not do anything before November.

And we are all betting on the Tea Party to be too crazy to upset the balance. Maybe by then, our leader will have reached between his legs and found his balls.

I for one am disgusted by the whole dance. Especially since lives and livelihoods are on the line.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline ColtbearNJ

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Re: Presidential Character and Courage in 1948 and 2010, DADT and Common Sense
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2010, 03:17:55 PM »
To Mike, first of all, let me be one (among countless others - sorry, I had to!), to thank you for your service -- and I'm very sorry to hear your partner passed away.  I may have come across incorrectly in my wording, but at 55 and having experienced much of life, including good to great and bad to actually evil personal and political machinations throughout that time, in absolutely no way am I naive (other than perhaps always trying to see the good in everyone, including all races), and I am always proud to be an American.  There are some moments when I know I am prouder than usual, however, especially when civil and equal rights (including DADT and DOMA), are or can be corrected expediently by the president, as in the case of the air traffic controllers, and what should be the case regarding DADT (uh-oh!), according to countless Americans and many members of both political parties and high-ranking Armed Services officials and members throughout.  

Finally, I have never taken anyone or anything for granted in my life, especially good acts and deeds by everyone ranging from casual strangers, personal friends, and those in authority (civilly and/or politically.)  I hope I've made myself a lot clearer than what I previously wrote.  I don't want to get into a contest as to who is more naive regarding any presidential ability (including Obama's inaction on DADT), to finally begin the ending of this political nonsense and civil injustice by issuing an Executive Order.  The New York Times article (including over 500 comments), many whom agree that Obama should issue an Executive Order, as well as what prompted me to start this thread is here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/22/us/politics/22cong.html?hpw


You can find out the real reason for this political cluster%#@! here:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-ed-dontask-20100923,0,6503094.story

I agree with jkinatl2 (Jonathan, is that you?), that an Executive Order probably would have repercussions before November.  I also agree that Obama needs to grow a pair, or find the ones he supposedly has.  But most importantly, I don't think that any politician of any party should be allowed to "attach" his or her personal agenda at the very last minute a bill such as DADT is up for consideration or passage.  tednlou2 is absolutely correct that Reid's last minute action effective killed any chance of DADT as well as the other matters (the DREAM Act, etc.), being debated, much less voted upon.  Each of these issues are indeed important, and deserve to be considered and voted upon on an individual basis.

Thanks for all of your replies, guys, and peace and blessings to all.

Steve
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 03:30:36 PM by ColtbearNJ »

Offline phildinftlaudy

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  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: Presidential Character and Courage in 1948 and 2010, DADT and Common Sense
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2010, 03:48:25 PM »


This says it all.... We can only hope DADT will be a thing of the past soon.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 03:51:32 PM by phildinftlaudy »
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline bocker3

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  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: Presidential Character and Courage in 1948 and 2010, DADT and Common Sense
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2010, 05:50:17 PM »
To Mike, first of all, let me be one (among countless others - sorry, I had to!), to thank you for your service -- and I'm very sorry to hear your partner passed away.

First -- thanks for your kind words.  Second -- I may have been unclear -- I was missing my partner for the months that I was in Iraq -- he was then, and is still, very much alive.  We celebrated our 20th anniversay just last month.

Let's hope something happens, either from the WH or Congress as soon as this election passes.  Too many good men and women have been "thrown away" when they are needed most.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline ColtbearNJ

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Re: Presidential Character and Courage in 1948 and 2010, DADT and Common Sense
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2010, 05:59:24 PM »
Whew!!!  SO glad to hear your partner is alive and well, Mike - and CONGRATULATIONS on your 20th anniversary!

Here's to the next 20!

All the best,
Steve

 


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