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Author Topic: Don't Ask Don't Tell  (Read 5449 times)

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Offline squaw

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Don't Ask Don't Tell
« on: September 21, 2010, 09:29:36 PM »
First a little background.... As some of you know, my husband is a member of the U.S. Army and I have worked as a civilian for the Army for over 10 years.  For four of my ten years, I worked at Fort Sill, OK in the department that handles the paperwork for new soldiers entering the Army (basic trainees).

I have seen people be accepted into the Army with criminal records 6 pages long, including assault, grand larceny, sexual crimes, and child abuse.  I have witnessed situations where soldiers get caught in the act of smoking crack and go unpunished, get in car accidents while driving drunk and nearly kill other soldiers, also unpunished. 

I have also seen countless soldiers get kicked out of the Army for homosexuality.  What this tells me is that the Army welcomes drug addicts, criminals, felons, child abusers, and thieves, yet if you are homosexual, you have to go.  UNBELIEVABLE!!!! 

And then to top it off, Obama's illegal alien aunt who has been supported by taxpayers in this country for 30 years says "we owe it to her to make her a citizen." 

This country disgusts me more every day.  When my husband retires, we will be looking for a home OUTSIDE THE U.S.

Thanks for allowing me to vent!!!

Squaw


Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2010, 11:03:28 PM »
Talk to Joe about Canada! I hear the weather is great, and the natives are friendly.

But yeah, the deal with DADT is appalling when you consider that we allow people into the military that we would never allow to rent a room in our house.

Glad your hubby is one of the good ones!

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Hellraiser

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2010, 04:35:51 AM »
DADT's rationale is one that accepts homophobia as a reasonable excuse for not allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly.  It's a pathetic reason.

Offline mecch

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2010, 04:51:33 AM »
I agree with this outrage over the stupidity of DADT and the hypocrisy of the military.

How does it have anything to do with Obama's auntie.   Apples and Oranges.  (Also the news I read said she has been in the US 10 years, not 30.)
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline squaw

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2010, 07:33:32 PM »
Mecch,

Obama's aunt had nothing to do with it.  I was just on my soap box and that was another thing that just burns me up.  I guess I was mistaken about the amount of time she has been in the U.S.  But whether it's 10 years or 30, she has been receiving benefits that only citizens should receive and has been in this country ILLEGALLY and nothing has been done about it.  The sheer gall of her to make the statement that the U.S. owes her a$$ anything, makes me want to vomit.

Squaw

Offline mecch

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2010, 12:10:11 PM »
Ah gotcha.
Well she moved to the us with a visa that expired and then applied for political Asylum.  It seems her original application suggested violence in Kenya as the rationale.  Then when Obama became quite famous, her asylum application said she would be persecuted by Obama haters in Kenya.  Kenya rejects both claims as ridiculous.

It would seem she just would rather live in the USA and asylum was the only way that might happen. Otherwise she seems like a standup person and Obama wrote nice things about her form their time together in the 80's.   But also he seems to have pretty much dropped her since she has been in the US.  (strange.)

About the benefits given to asylum seekers, I dunno.  

I'm all for the soapbox, however!  

Here's one - you know if I had to move back to the US it would be so anxiety producing and maybe very very difficult?  Could I get a job at my age (48) and at this Swiss salary? Doubtful.  Could I afford insurance, even pooled insurance? Doubtful.  How would I pay for my treatment?  Horror!  

I have a Euro passport so if I ever leave Swiss I guess I would move to the Euro community, maybe someplace warm. Hopefully Turkey will get it together.  Or Greece, Southern Italy. Even the Cote d'azur!

Ironic to be middle class and yet also an economic exile from the US, where'd I probably be struggling in so many ways.

Its equally ironic to me that repeal of DADT is seen as a major victory for gay rights.  I guess so. But why anyone would be clamoring to serve in the military with all these corrupt wars America government is forcing on its services, is a sad point. 

I can see it if the service is used as a way to economic security and middle class life.  It makes sense. BUt i got a MAJOR creepy feeling from that West Point Lesbian who just quit because she couldn't come out. Shes been on the news shows and went to the VMA with Lady Gaga.  Now shes at Yale.  She's brilliant, can do whatever she wants.  Why would she want to throw away her future "protecting America" when the last 10 years that has been a bullshit myth. 




« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 12:14:21 PM by mecch »
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Assurbanipal

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2010, 12:16:01 PM »
 But also he seems to have pretty much dropped her since she has been in the US.  (strange.)


Do you keep up with all of your aunts?  I only have a few left, but even so...

and let's not talk about the dozens of cousins.
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Offline mecch

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2010, 12:19:51 PM »
If I wrote about my aunt as important to helping me to understand my father who abandoned me, and his culture, and the book sold millions of copies, I would accept this aunts kind little donation to my presidential campaign, and if I became president, I'd invite this aunt to my inauguration.  thats all im saying, sweetie.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline bocker3

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2010, 06:14:47 PM »
Its equally ironic to me that repeal of DADT is seen as a major victory for gay rights.  I guess so. But why anyone would be clamoring to serve in the military with all these corrupt wars America government is forcing on its services, is a sad point. 

Here's why, in one word -- EQUALITY -- perhaps that will siimple enough for you to grasp.  As for your opinion on the wars -- outside of Bush's foray into Iraq, I'm not sure our wars have been "corrupt".  Necessary?? perhaps, perhaps not, but not corrupt.  Also, if folks weren't willing to serve in the military, then they would simply be forced to -- like many other countries. 

I can see it if the service is used as a way to economic security and middle class life.  It makes sense. BUt i got a MAJOR creepy feeling from that West Point Lesbian who just quit because she couldn't come out. Shes been on the news shows and went to the VMA with Lady Gaga.  Now shes at Yale.  She's brilliant, can do whatever she wants.  Why would she want to throw away her future "protecting America" when the last 10 years that has been a bullshit myth. 

Your entitled to your opinion (tiresome though they can become) -- however, you seem incapable of seeing anything that doesn't fit your view of the world.  Just because she's brilliant, she shouldn't be in the military?  You'd rather have only folks of average intelligence or less in the military?  Really??  You might see it as "throwing away her future", fortunately for the rest of us, many do not.  It's a noble profession -- and a necessary one.  So you continue to live in your fantasy world with no need for "protecting America" -- I'll stay here, in the U.S., and be thankful, each and every day, that there are folks like the Lesbian who gave you a "MAJOR creepy feeling", willing to defend and die to protect me.  Were it not for DADT, I would have remained in the military (albeit the Reserves) as I learned many valuable skills and met many wonderful people -- many, in fact, who couldn't have given two shits when I did "tell" in protest of the enactment of DADT.

Mike
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Offline northernguy

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2010, 07:09:39 PM »
Considering most advanced Western nations have allowed gays and lesbians to serve in their armed forces for some time now, with no lurid tales of mass shower rapes forthcoming, the continued delay of the USA to repeal DADT is a national embarassment that panders to the myth of American exceptionalsim.
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Offline bocker3

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2010, 07:38:50 PM »
Considering most advanced Western nations have allowed gays and lesbians to serve in their armed forces for some time now, with no lurid tales of mass shower rapes forthcoming, the continued delay of the USA to repeal DADT is a national embarassment that panders to the myth of American exceptionalsim.

I don't know how it applies to exceptionalism....   I don't think it exists because people want to be different -- I think it exists because of fear and ignorance (as well as a desire by the Republicans to have a wedge issue to generate increased voters).

Mike
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Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2010, 07:42:30 PM »
Considering most advanced Western nations have allowed gays and lesbians to serve in their armed forces for some time now, with no lurid tales of mass shower rapes forthcoming, the continued delay of the USA to repeal DADT is a national embarassment that panders to the myth of American exceptionalsim.

You do realize it's harder to drag everyone along in a country of 300 million versus one of 30 million, don't you (half of which live all in one province)?
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline mecch

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2010, 07:21:52 PM »
Here's why, in one word -- EQUALITY -- perhaps that will siimple enough for you to grasp.  As for your opinion on the wars -- outside of Bush's foray into Iraq, I'm not sure our wars have been "corrupt".  Necessary?? perhaps, perhaps not, but not corrupt.  Also, if folks weren't willing to serve in the military, then they would simply be forced to -- like many other countries.  

Your entitled to your opinion (tiresome though they can become) -- however, you seem incapable of seeing anything that doesn't fit your view of the world.  Just because she's brilliant, she shouldn't be in the military?  You'd rather have only folks of average intelligence or less in the military?  Really??  You might see it as "throwing away her future", fortunately for the rest of us, many do not.  It's a noble profession -- and a necessary one.  So you continue to live in your fantasy world with no need for "protecting America" -- I'll stay here, in the U.S., and be thankful, each and every day, that there are folks like the Lesbian who gave you a "MAJOR creepy feeling", willing to defend and die to protect me.  Were it not for DADT, I would have remained in the military (albeit the Reserves) as I learned many valuable skills and met many wonderful people -- many, in fact, who couldn't have given two shits when I did "tell" in protest of the enactment of DADT.

Mike

Oh you really think you have my number.  But you dont. Also you love to put words in my mouth that I didnt say.

I agree DADT is anti-constitutional and that its important to repeal it.  I also see it as a civil rights victory. I just think its small potatoes as civil rights for gays goes.  Not the biggest thing on the agenda.  The desegration of the Military came in 1948 and it was a civil rights victory but even Korean was mostly a segregated military.  It took the pervasive civil rights legislation of 54, 64 and 65 to slam civll rights home across the land.  

Also I agree that the military is a noble profession.  My precise point was that since WWII, arguably Korean, but certainly not Vietman, Afghanistan or Iraq, the US Government has NOT waged Just Wars and has therefore misused the good will, the noble will, of people who want to serve their country.  

I guess you think I'm talking out my ass, or from some pedestal, but or that I have some unique egocentric view. But this is ALL standard "just war theory", which I learned at the Watson Center at Brown.  Same stuff as at Kennedy.  Same stuff as at Woodrow Wilson. You don't have to agree with my politics, its all very radical liberal leftist stuff, cause yeah I learned a lot from Chomsky etc etc.  

So you can imagine all the words and create all the identies you want about me, but you're half baked about me.

The creepy feeling I got about the West Point cadet Katie Miller was her steadfast determination to serve, yet under a government which will misuse her brilliance in unjust wars.  

You think I am the only one who gets a sick feeling about the politics that must be played by the destruction of American lives, let alone the civilians and homelanders in wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?  Duh no.
Quite a few editorials in major newspapers about the weirdness of Obama having to say something about the end of operations in Iraq - but unable because of politics to revisit his TRUE HONEST opinion, held before he was president, that it was an UNJUST war, corrupt from the get go.  

So you can disagree with my politics but don't paint me as some sort of lone weirdo in my views.  Ciao.
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2010, 09:23:16 PM »
I read that Marx wrote his manifesto under the glow of a murano chandelier.

Offline northernguy

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2010, 10:11:53 PM »
You do realize it's harder to drag everyone along in a country of 300 million versus one of 30 million, don't you (half of which live all in one province)?

No, a vocal minority of (say) 20% bigots will have the same influence whether the population is 3 million, 30 million or 300 million.  It all boils down to leadership having the strength of conviction to do the right thing.
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Offline bocker3

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2010, 11:16:10 PM »
Oh you really think you have my number.  But you dont. Also you love to put words in my mouth that I didnt say.

I agree DADT is anti-constitutional and that its important to repeal it.  I also see it as a civil rights victory. I just think its small potatoes as civil rights for gays goes.  Not the biggest thing on the agenda.  The desegration of the Military came in 1948 and it was a civil rights victory but even Korean was mostly a segregated military.  It took the pervasive civil rights legislation of 54, 64 and 65 to slam civll rights home across the land.  

Also I agree that the military is a noble profession.  My precise point was that since WWII, arguably Korean, but certainly not Vietman, Afghanistan or Iraq, the US Government has NOT waged Just Wars and has therefore misused the good will, the noble will, of people who want to serve their country.  

I guess you think I'm talking out my ass, or from some pedestal, but or that I have some unique egocentric view. But this is ALL standard "just war theory", which I learned at the Watson Center at Brown.  Same stuff as at Kennedy.  Same stuff as at Woodrow Wilson. You don't have to agree with my politics, its all very radical liberal leftist stuff, cause yeah I learned a lot from Chomsky etc etc.  

So you can imagine all the words and create all the identies you want about me, but you're half baked about me.

The creepy feeling I got about the West Point cadet Katie Miller was her steadfast determination to serve, yet under a government which will misuse her brilliance in unjust wars.  

You think I am the only one who gets a sick feeling about the politics that must be played by the destruction of American lives, let alone the civilians and homelanders in wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?  Duh no.
Quite a few editorials in major newspapers about the weirdness of Obama having to say something about the end of operations in Iraq - but unable because of politics to revisit his TRUE HONEST opinion, held before he was president, that it was an UNJUST war, corrupt from the get go.  

So you can disagree with my politics but don't paint me as some sort of lone weirdo in my views.  Ciao.

Sweetie -- tone down the persecution complex.  No where did I say you were a lone weirdo -- you are definitely not alone.    However, the fact that you find this woman's desire to serve "creepy", does buttress my point that you can't imagine a world view beyond your own.  You may have read some books, but you clearly no nothing about the soldiers who serve in the US Military.  So, you really have no right to paint their desires as "creepy".  You can have you opinions but you can't paint theirs -- so cool it with that.  That, in fact, is what pissed me off on your rant -- not your opinion, I simply ignore those most of the time -- it's your fucking holier than thou view of others.  Clean up your issues before painting others as "creepy".

M
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Offline mecch

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2010, 06:14:34 AM »
Sweetie -- tone down the persecution complex.  No where did I say you were a lone weirdo -- you are definitely not alone.    However, the fact that you find this woman's desire to serve "creepy", does buttress my point that you can't imagine a world view beyond your own.  You may have read some books, but you clearly no nothing about the soldiers who serve in the US Military.  So, you really have no right to paint their desires as "creepy".  You can have you opinions but you can't paint theirs -- so cool it with that.  That, in fact, is what pissed me off on your rant -- not your opinion, I simply ignore those most of the time -- it's your fucking holier than thou view of others.  Clean up your issues before painting others as "creepy".

M

I don't think she is creepy - I got a creepy feeling she could be had, abused, by a hawkish government which doesn't care about her, merely about its politics and often imperialistic  militaristic agenda.  Despite her brilliance, she had to quit a military that doesn't want her for being a lesbian.  And she wants back in. And I think its creepy to want back in - in this day and age - because, as I said, the government pushes the military to pursue unjust wars.  Thats my opinion.   Basically I subscribe to the "support the troops but not the war."  Many Americans can not seem to make this distinction, and its a terrible mind fuck to be a soldier and believe that you are in a just war, when clearly it is not. I saw hundreds of US soldiers in Iraq in interviews say "I'm protecting my country" and that was a crock of shit.  Wasted lives all around.  Thats the basis of my argument.

Its also not a question of reading books, but studying under leading scholars in a "community of thought" about what is war, including theorists of war in the military academies by the way.  The very same ways of thinking Obama learned in his education by the way, and bravely defended as a Senator.  

You don't know what I know about the military.  Also I don't have a persecution complex.  Several years you are happy to put all sorts of labels on me to avoid making a decent argument about the subject or a clever rebuttal of my points.  
“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Offline BT65

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2010, 06:38:40 AM »
 Several years you are happy to put all sorts of labels on me to avoid making a decent argument about the subject or a clever rebuttal of my points.  

What does this mean, "several years?" 
I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Offline Dachshund

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2010, 08:03:40 AM »

Its also not a question of reading books, but studying under leading scholars in a "community of thought" about what is war, including theorists of war in the military academies by the way.    

Which military academy would that be? Annapolis, West Point, Miss Primrose's School of elocution and etiquette for girls? 

Offline bocker3

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2010, 08:16:27 AM »
I don't think she is creepy - I got a creepy feeling she could be had, abused, by a hawkish government which doesn't care about her, merely about its politics and often imperialistic  militaristic agenda.  Despite her brilliance, she had to quit a military that doesn't want her for being a lesbian.  And she wants back in. And I think its creepy to want back in - in this day and age - because, as I said, the government pushes the military to pursue unjust wars.  Thats my opinion.   Basically I subscribe to the "support the troops but not the war."  Many Americans can not seem to make this distinction, and its a terrible mind fuck to be a soldier and believe that you are in a just war, when clearly it is not. I saw hundreds of US soldiers in Iraq in interviews say "I'm protecting my country" and that was a crock of shit.  Wasted lives all around.  Thats the basis of my argument.

Its also not a question of reading books, but studying under leading scholars in a "community of thought" about what is war, including theorists of war in the military academies by the way.  The very same ways of thinking Obama learned in his education by the way, and bravely defended as a Senator.  

You don't know what I know about the military.  Also I don't have a persecution complex.  Several years you are happy to put all sorts of labels on me to avoid making a decent argument about the subject or a clever rebuttal of my points.  

Sorry honey, don't buy your bullshit here.  You can opine, but you can't denigrate the soldiers.  You SAY you aren't, but you are.  I don't need a clever rebuttal, because I know you are talking out your ass -- study all you want it doesn't help you know crap about war.  Come talk to me after you have served in one.  I have -- and I will tell you that the war I served in was NOT an unjust war.  Desert Storm pushed Saddam out of Kuwait.  While I will agree our second foray into Iraq was unnecessary and a horrible waste, I'm not sure it was unjust.  Unless, of course, your definition of unjust rests on the fact that we haven't had a Congressional Declaration of War since WWII.
Finally -- if not for DADT I would probably still be serving in the Military today.  Guess you find me creepy too.  Oh well, no matter, I find you both tiring and a malcontent.  So live in your perfect Swiss society, where nothing is wrong and I'll live here in the real world.

Mike
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Offline randym431

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2010, 11:24:57 AM »
Looks like most gay issues this country has with gay issues will get decided by the courts and judges. And thats fine with me. Because not every single court and every single judge can be labeled as "activist". Reminds me of the scene in "justice for all" when Al Pacino  yells "YOU"RE OUT OF ORDER, YOU'RE OUT OF ORDER, YOU'RE OUT OF ORDER" to everyone in the courtroom.
Bigots will realize if every court and judge keeps ruling for civil rights and against nonsense gay bigotry, bigots only recourse will be to toss the entire American justice system out the window.

I've always said when gay civil rights issues are brought before a court, gay wins.
You'd think those that would wish to keep gays in the closet or as second class citizens, would stop taking the issue to the courts. In Calif for example.. if prop 8 is brought to the US Supreme Court by them, Gay marriage will only end up becoming legal and the law of the land shore to shore in all states. Not exactly where they would want this to go, I would think. While our leaders, and yes even our current leader, has not the spine to do the right thing (as he promised) on DADT, just let the courts do it for him. Im perfectly ok with that. And perfectly ok that Obama will not go down in history as another Abe Lincoln.
Abe Lincoln, while now looked upon as maybe the greatest leader of our country, back then was no doubt hated with a passion for his actions. And I doubt many news papers came running to his rescue, back then.
But now, we realize how great Abe was for doing the right thing regardless of the time.
Obama won't have to worry about that stigma. So be it.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2010, 11:36:28 AM by randym431 »

Offline edfu

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2010, 07:16:18 AM »
I've always said when gay civil rights issues are brought before a court, gay wins.

Um, perhaps you've forgotten Bowers v. Hardwick?  That's the 1986 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that upheld the criminalization of sodomy.  How'd that happen?

You'd think those that would wish to keep gays in the closet or as second class citizens, would stop taking the issue to the courts. In Calif for example.. if prop 8 is brought to the US Supreme Court by them, Gay marriage will only end up becoming legal and the law of the land shore to shore in all states. Not exactly where they would want this to go, I would think.

There are many professional observers of and commentators on the Supreme Court who dispute your faith that the current Supreme Court would legalize gay marriage.  
« Last Edit: September 26, 2010, 07:18:04 AM by edfu »
"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Offline squaw

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2010, 06:08:14 PM »
WoW!  Haven't been on the site in a while and was surprised to see the way my original post lead to a much bigger issue -- the UNJUST WARS and the American way of life.

Mecch, you are very intelligent and insightful.  I couldn't agree with what you said more, on so many levels.  First of all, the working class in America is going to disappear.  We will eventually go broke in this struggling economy, mostly due to having to support the lazy bums who sit on their butt and collect government handouts.  The government is OUT OF CONTROL in this country, and worsening every day.  People give no thought before having children as to whether or not they can afford children, because Uncle Sam is ready and willing to fill in when their bad decisions cause them to come up short.  People have become so government dependent in this country it is sickening. 

Secondly, about the unjust wars.  You hit a home run with that one.  I believe there are military personnel who entered the military out of love for this country and a dedication to serve and protect.  However, I would have to say that is the minority.  Deadbeats and criminals with no education, who can't get a job anywhere else make up the majority.  People are willing to join the military because IT PAYS!  Most jobs in the military have a $30-$40k sign on bonus.  Because the people who join are usually young people who feel they are immortal, they are not disuaded by the death count.  The military is also full of power hungry people, who take a little bit of rank and think they are the master of the universe, which I believe is behind this lesbian's desire to go back in the military.

I hate to say this about my fellow Americans, but they are the most gullible people on the planet.  How anyone can truly believe that our attack on Iraq had anything to do with 911 is beyond my comprehension.  Military members are brainwashed into believing that they are "protecting" the US from some horrible act of terrorism, when actually our government is the true terrorist.  I fear my government much more than I fear Osama Bin Laden.  I could write a book on this subject, but I'll spare the readers.

Lastly, Mecch you are 100% right about not being able to live comfortably in America.  The working people here struggle the most.  We support the rich, the poor and the lazy.

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2010, 07:05:52 PM »
*edited to await clarification
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 07:37:38 PM by jkinatl2 »
"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline Jody

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2010, 07:31:58 PM »
JK...I think some out there who don't know you well might be confused by your response.

Jody
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 "Try to discover that you are the song that the morning brings."

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Offline Joe K

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2010, 09:59:21 PM »
Mecch, you are very intelligent and insightful.  I couldn't agree with what you said more, on so many levels.  First of all, the working class in America is going to disappear.  We will eventually go broke in this struggling economy, mostly due to having to support the lazy bums who sit on their butt and collect government handouts.

I hate to say this about my fellow Americans, but they are the most gullible people on the planet.  How anyone can truly believe that our attack on Iraq had anything to do with 911 is beyond my comprehension.  Military members are brainwashed into believing that they are "protecting" the US from some horrible act of terrorism, when actually our government is the true terrorist.  I fear my government much more than I fear Osama Bin Laden.

Lastly, Mecch you are 100% right about not being able to live comfortably in America.  The working people here struggle the most.  We support the rich, the poor and the lazy.

Your entire tirade is so offensive I don't know where to start. I'm disabled, so am I one of the bums getting a government handout? I'm not rich, so maybe I'm poor or lazy. Your rhetoric is disgusting and you could never represent the America that I know and love. Your views would make Karl Rove proud. You fear the American government, more than the man who killed over 3,000 Americans on 9/11? You cannot be serious and it is hateful speech, just like yours, that is what is so wrong with America in the 21st century. You have no concept on how all Americans live or what they think and if you hate this country, so damn bad, then get the hell out!!!

Go live with Osama and see what real hell is like.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 10:01:18 PM by killfoile »
Life is what happens, when you are busy making other plans.

Though you may be only one person in the entire world, to one person, you may be the entire world.

I wish to become half the man, that my dog thinks I am.

Remember me with simple acts of kindness and I will live forever.

Offline bocker3

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2010, 10:33:27 PM »
Secondly, about the unjust wars.  You hit a home run with that one.  I believe there are military personnel who entered the military out of love for this country and a dedication to serve and protect.  However, I would have to say that is the minority.  Deadbeats and criminals with no education, who can't get a job anywhere else make up the majority. 
Where the hell do you get these "facts" from??  Having been in the military I can tell you that you don't come just for the money -- it ain't so great for the majority.  You are simply pulling these facts our of your asshole.  They ain't based in anything real.

People are willing to join the military because IT PAYS!  Most jobs in the military have a $30-$40k sign on bonus. 

Again -- you are shoveling are load of horse shit.  sign on bonuses are rarely even close to this -- and usually limited to specialties that are very training intensive -- thus making it cheaper to persuade someone to stay vs. recruiting and training someone new.

Not to mention that you just pissed all over your own argument that folks join for the money.  If they money was so good, you wouldn't need these sorts of bonuses to get or retain people.  Do you even have the ability to connect two thoughts and see if the jive??

Because the people who join are usually young people who feel they are immortal, they are not disuaded by the death count.  The military is also full of power hungry people, who take a little bit of rank and think they are the master of the universe, which I believe is behind this lesbian's desire to go back in the military.

Quite frankly, I wouldn't take a fucking thing you say as anywhere within spitting distance of the truth.  You really have NO IDEA what being in the military is like.

I hate to say this about my fellow Americans, but they are the most gullible people on the planet.  How anyone can truly believe that our attack on Iraq had anything to do with 911 is beyond my comprehension.  Military members are brainwashed into believing that they are "protecting" the US from some horrible act of terrorism, when actually our government is the true terrorist.  I fear my government much more than I fear Osama Bin Laden.  I could write a book on this subject, but I'll spare the readers.

You don't hate to say it -- you actually seem to LOVE saying it.  You've insulted just about the entire population, in one way or another. 
If you truly fear the US more than Osama -- move on over to Pakistan and see how much you like living under his tutelage.  You are simply an ungrateful %&^#$ who doesn't realize what others have done for you.
And no -- I highly doubt that you have the capacity to write a book about this or any other subject -- at least not one with any FACTS in them.

Lastly, Mecch you are 100% right about not being able to live comfortably in America.  The working people here struggle the most.  We support the rich, the poor and the lazy.
The rich and the poor work too -- so who the hell are you referring to as the "working people"?  Those just like you? 

Tell me -- is there any oxygen on the planet where you live?

I'm with Joe on this one -- get the hell out of the US if you think Osama is so great.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
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Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2010, 10:47:21 PM »
Squaw - you totally negated any positive aspects of your post in regards to trying to show support for the repeal of DADT by showing throughout the thread prejudice, discrimination, lack of tolerance or acceptance, negative bias, an extremelly one-sided judgmental attitude about just every segment of the population that doesn't meet your criteria.

As a veteran I can tell you that most of the soldiers I knew were there to serve their country, to gain a sense of pride and accomplishment, to gain discipline and understanding, and to gain experience.  They were not there to get rich - to make money.  In fact, most military families qualify for food stamps and receive assistance paying for housing because their military pay is not enough to afford it.

If people with your hateful beliefs towards so many others in the American population are supportive of gay rights and repeal of DADT - I have to say, personally, I would rather not have your kind of support.

The old saying rings true:  "Close your mouth and people may think you are a fool; open it and their thoughts are confirmed."

« Last Edit: October 04, 2010, 10:59:22 PM by phildinftlaudy »
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline Joe K

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2010, 11:00:58 PM »
Talk to Joe about Canada! I hear the weather is great, and the natives are friendly.

Sorry, Canada doesn't want her. We actually have laws against speech like hers. She'd be in jail as soon as she opened her mouth.
Life is what happens, when you are busy making other plans.

Though you may be only one person in the entire world, to one person, you may be the entire world.

I wish to become half the man, that my dog thinks I am.

Remember me with simple acts of kindness and I will live forever.

Offline Matty the Damned

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2010, 11:13:00 PM »
Squaw,

I'm not going to quote your entire blizzard of shit, save for this one part:

Quote
The military is also full of power hungry people, who take a little bit of rank and think they are the master of the universe, which I believe is behind this lesbian's desire to go back in the military.

. . . which sums you and your attitude up very nicely I think.

Now why don't you go and get your misspelt placard and your LOVE IT OR LEAVE boob-tube and toddle off to one of Mr Glenn Beck's ghastly rallies and stop tormenting us with your cretinous rants?

MtD

Offline jkinatl2

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2010, 11:14:01 PM »
JK...I think some out there who don't know you well might be confused by your response.

Jody

I waited, Jody. I think I had the right idea. Those of us who are disabled or poor (made moreso by the AIDSMEDS that give this site it's name) are pretty offended. Eventually, given better drugs, many of us will be elderly too. A trifecta of people who suffer the disdain from "working people."

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

-Kimberly Page-Shafer, PhD, MPH

Welcome Thread

Offline squaw

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2010, 06:47:54 PM »
Boy I stepped on some toes, huh?  All I can say is "if the shoe fits, wear it", if it doesn't, what are you so worked up about. 

Offline Joe K

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2010, 08:51:37 PM »
Boy I stepped on some toes, huh?  All I can say is "if the shoe fits, wear it", if it doesn't, what are you so worked up about. 

Because hate speech must always be met with intolerance. You may delude yourself, but I know who you are. You are the face of hatred that torments this country with your intolerance, lies and vile disposition. Your lack of empathy and compassion is mind-numbing. Next time you look into the mirror, the face you see reflecting back at you, is the greatest threat, this great nation faces. It is people like you who make life a living hell for all the other decent Americans.
Life is what happens, when you are busy making other plans.

Though you may be only one person in the entire world, to one person, you may be the entire world.

I wish to become half the man, that my dog thinks I am.

Remember me with simple acts of kindness and I will live forever.

Offline squaw

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #33 on: October 05, 2010, 09:14:36 PM »
Last time I checked America was still a free country, and I am free to have my views just as you have yours. 

I'm sorry Kill that you are so personally insulted by what I said.  I never said anything negative about people on disability who have actually worked for a living.  The lazy people I referred to are the people on welfare for generations and still having more kids for the taxpayers to take care of.  I'm not ashamed to say I am tired of supporting those people. 

The government in America is crooked from top to bottom, just like in many other countries, and once again I am entitled to my opinion. 

Kill, if you want to see hateful, bitter, and intolerant look at the responses to my post.  I never stooped to the level of insulting anyone personally.  I am not going to waste any more of my time defending myself against a bunch of bitter queens who have nothing better to do than look for reasons to insult people. You all attack each other constantly and say vile, hateful things to one another.

My life has been personally touched by HIV and that is why I came to this site to begin with.  I care very deeply about each and every person here, and I wish all of you the best of health regardless of how you have treated me.

Offline Miss Philicia

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2010, 09:24:18 PM »
Bitter Queen
The Cocktail

Ingredients:
1/4 cup vodka
2 tablespoons Campari
2 tablespoons limoncello
1/4 cup fresh orange juice
1 lime slice

Directions
Fill a cocktail shaker with ice.
Add the vodka, Campari and limoncello and shake well.
Strain into a chilled martini glass, then top with the orange juice. Garnish with the lime slice.
"I’ve slept with enough men to know that I’m not gay"

Offline Joe K

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2010, 09:26:22 PM »
I hate to say this about my fellow Americans, but they are the most gullible people on the planet.  How anyone can truly believe that our attack on Iraq had anything to do with 911 is beyond my comprehension.  Military members are brainwashed into believing that they are "protecting" the US from some horrible act of terrorism, when actually our government is the true terrorist.  I fear my government much more than I fear Osama Bin Laden.  I could write a book on this subject, but I'll spare the readers.

Lastly, Mecch you are 100% right about not being able to live comfortably in America.  The working people here struggle the most.  We support the rich, the poor and the lazy.

Save me the poor me bullshit. Your very words above have you calling the government of the United States of America the true terrorist. You fear the American government more than you fear Osama, the man who murdered over 3,000 Americans? Who are you trying to kid. You spew hate, we rightfully vilify you, using your own words and now you are the victim? That is so rich and purely demented. Believe what you like, but don't you even suggest that you care about most of the people here. Your very speech denies that truth and you cannot spin it away. The next time you want to see a true terrorist, look in the mirror. Terror comes in many forms.

Save your responses, I'm done with you. You have no power here, so begone.
Life is what happens, when you are busy making other plans.

Though you may be only one person in the entire world, to one person, you may be the entire world.

I wish to become half the man, that my dog thinks I am.

Remember me with simple acts of kindness and I will live forever.

Offline squaw

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2010, 10:03:51 PM »
this is MY THREAD,  YOU BE GONE!!!!

Offline phildinftlaudy

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2010, 10:19:29 PM »
Squaw -
I hope you will take the time to read what I am about to say and to take it in the way it is meant to be taken --- that we can all provide guidance and direction to another person.

First of all, your comments against many different segments of society were offensive.  Rather than offer a sincere apology for offending anyone, you instead stood on your right to free speech.  Free speech is a right guaranteed by the very country that you speak so disparagingly about and that your husband has protected.

I remember when you first came on here seeeking support and guidance and comfort regarding your son's diagnosis.  I can tell you that my parents are supportive.  However, I also remember very vividly all of the negative things they have said against gays and against many other segments of society.  This has caused me great pain over and over again.  Whether a parent realizes it or not, the words they say and their beliefs resonate for a long time with their children.


I also would say, and this is my translation, that people who are not infected but are worried about being infected are limited to posting in the Am I Infected part of the forums.  People who have someone that they care about who is infected are given this set of guidance (excerpted from the Someone I Care About Welcome):

Welcome to the AIDSmeds Forums! The "Someone I Care About Has HIV" forum has been created with those of you in mind who don't have HIV yourself, but have a friend, lover or family member who does.

"The existence of this forum does not mean you can't post in the "Living With HIV" forum, or other forums, when appropriate, but it does give you a place where you can talk to other people in similar circumstances to your own."

My interpretation of this (and I am not a moderator or administrator) is that your post in this area and some of your comments may not be seen as appropriate.

But I do hope you reread what your wrote and the responses and offer a sincere apology to those you have or even may have offended.
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline bocker3

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2010, 10:25:28 PM »
this is MY THREAD,  YOU BE GONE!!!!

Ignorance like yours is why things like DADT exist today.  You seem to hate anything and anyone who is different from you.  You lump millions into neat categories to ease your hatred.  Not too mention you pull "facts" out your ass to make your point. 

You are not the victim in this thread -- try as you will to make yourself one.  Fortunately we are all a little bit smarter than you and can spot your bullshit quite easily.  Go stir your pot elsewhere. 

You may hate the world, but I, for one, don't hate you -- I simply pity you and your myopic worldview.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
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Nov05 288/18%  47,564
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May2013 691/31% <20

Offline bocker3

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #39 on: October 05, 2010, 10:30:20 PM »
Squaw -

I remember when you first came on here seeeking support and guidance and comfort regarding your son's diagnosis.  I can tell you that my parents are supportive.  However, I also remember very vividly all of the negative things they have said against gays and against many other segments of society.  This has caused me great pain over and over again.  Whether a parent realizes it or not, the words they say and their beliefs resonate for a long time with their children.


But I do hope you reread what your wrote and the responses and offer a sincere apology to those you have or even may have offended.

Me thinks this one is a lost cause.  Her level of hatred is generally built upon from a young age -- but perhaps she can listen to the following and learn something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwK8HyAbFZA

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline Joe K

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #40 on: October 05, 2010, 10:43:40 PM »
Nothing about this thread is alright, nor tolerable. Hate speech is hate speech. When you compare decent government employees, of which there are millions, with Osama, you have crossed a line. Squaw, you had a chance to explain yourself, but rather than respond with some sensitivity, you continue your tirade. I stand by my comments and I assure you that I will be here, to respond to your venom, whenever you decide to start spewing it again. I don't hate you, but I despise what you represent. It is people like you, who make life a living hell for all the rest of us. Instead of discussing real issues, in a mature fashion, you choose to belittle, distort facts, or just outright lie. I really feel sorry for you. How any one person, can contain so much hatred, is beyond my comprehension. You seem to be unable to understand the concept that your rights end, where my rights begin. I have the right to speak against your hatred, every chance I get and believe me I will.
Life is what happens, when you are busy making other plans.

Though you may be only one person in the entire world, to one person, you may be the entire world.

I wish to become half the man, that my dog thinks I am.

Remember me with simple acts of kindness and I will live forever.

Offline squaw

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #41 on: October 06, 2010, 11:20:23 AM »
phildinftlaudy, I posted this in the "Off Topic" section, which is where it belongs, and where I am allowed to post.  I am truly sorry that people were offended by what I said, but I believe they were offended because they either misconstrued what I said, or because they disagree with what I said.  I certainly wasn't calling anyone on this site a lazy bum.  If you are ill and on disability you are not a lazy bum.  I made it clear that the people I am talking about have never worked a day in their life because they are LAZY, not because they are ill.  I am tolerant of other people's religion, race, sexual orientation, etc., but I am intolerant as charged when people who are able to work don't because they would rather let taxpayers support them.  This is a huge problem in our country.

As to my feelings about our government, I won't apologize for that.  Unless someone on this site is a politician, I don't believe I offended anyone.  I am terrified of our government and have plenty of evidence to feel that way.  There are shocking unanswered questions about 911 that lead me to believe our government either directed or facilitated the attacks on our country. I am sure that is not a popular belief, but it is what I believe, and I am entitled to my beliefs just like everyone else.

As for what I said about the military, I have firsthand knowledge.  My husband has been in the military for 20 years, and I have worked for the Army for 10 years.  I live it everyday.  If you don't, then how can you dispute what I say.  Even so, I never said anything negative about the military other than it is full of criminals.  That is a fact.  Only criminals would be offended by this statement.  However, I feel very sorry for the HONEST young men who sign up for college money or whatever, and end up dead because of this bullshit war we are in.  Nothing in the middle east is worth one U.S. life.

This is my last post on this site.  Thank you to the ones who answered my questions about my son.  I apologize again to those who were offended by my post.  For those who are just bitter, hateful and rude, I will just pray for you.

Offline Theyer

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2010, 02:44:11 PM »
Mr Afterdinnerjacket also believes US gov was involved in 9/11,please don,t leave the site Squaw as I would love to have inside info from the tea parties ect
"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ."  Tony Benn

Offline squaw

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #43 on: October 07, 2010, 03:52:40 PM »
Theyer, sorry couldn't make out what the hell you were trying to say with all the typos and grammatical errors.  I assume you were trying to be funny.  The only thing funny about you is your obvious lack of intelligence.  Don't bother responding, I have IGNORED all the idiots.

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #44 on: October 07, 2010, 04:08:49 PM »
Theyer, sorry couldn't make out what the hell you were trying to say with all the typos and grammatical errors.  I assume you were trying to be funny.  The only thing funny about you is your obvious lack of intelligence.  Don't bother responding, I have IGNORED all the idiots.

Theyer's one of the nice people here, this is just uncalled for now.  I wonder what your real views on your son are because your words in this thread are very telling.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline phildinftlaudy

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  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #45 on: October 07, 2010, 04:13:07 PM »
Theyer's one of the nice people here, this is just uncalled for now.  I wonder what your real views on your son are because your words in this thread are very telling.
Skeebs - I do detect that you may very soon end up on squaw's ignore list (I've already called Guiness, as her list may become a world record breaker).
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #46 on: October 07, 2010, 04:18:37 PM »
Skeebs - I do detect that you may very soon end up on squaw's ignore list (I've already called Guiness, as her list may become a world record breaker).

You mean to tell me Guiness has a category for MILF's?
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

Offline john33

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #47 on: October 07, 2010, 04:20:51 PM »
Sqauw,
please take a deep breath and try to be a little calmer.

Theyer is one of the nicest people i know here. Along with others you argued with just because they don't have the same point of view as you.

Nothing wrong with points of view and discussing them, but be prepared that others don't see things the same as you. If we were all the same and clones the world would be a very boring place.

John

Offline squaw

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #48 on: October 07, 2010, 04:21:15 PM »
Thanks for the compliment, BUT NOT ON YOUR LUCKIEST DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline skeebo1969

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Re: Don't Ask Don't Tell
« Reply #49 on: October 07, 2010, 04:25:52 PM »
Thanks for the compliment, BUT NOT ON YOUR LUCKIEST DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And vice versa mama, wrong tone.
I despise the song Love is in the Air, you should too.

 


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