Quantcast

Subscribe to:
POZ magazine
E-newsletters
Join POZ: Facebook MySpace Twitter Pinterest
Tumblr Google+ Flickr MySpace
POZ Personals
Sign In / Join
Username:
Password:
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
August 01, 2014, 11:03:50 AM

Login with username, password and session length


Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 632645
  • Total Topics: 47921
  • Online Today: 288
  • Online Ever: 585
  • (January 07, 2014, 02:31:47 PM)
Users Online

Welcome


Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and others concerned about HIV/AIDS.  Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning:  Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

  • The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own physician.

  • All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

  • Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

  • We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are true and correct to their knowledge.

  • Product advertisement—including links; banners; editorial content; and clinical trial, study or survey participation—is strictly prohibited by forums members unless permission has been secured from POZ.

To change forums navigation language settings, click here (members only), Register now

Para cambiar sus preferencias de los foros en español, haz clic aquí (sólo miembros), Regístrate ahora

Finished Reading This? You can collapse this or any other box on this page by clicking the symbol in each box.

Author Topic: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends  (Read 10275 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pozniceguy

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,175
  • Niceguy Dallas
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #50 on: September 12, 2010, 06:44:15 PM »
Hey guys   cant we just block this guy  if he has no audience what is he going to do??????
remember the good times...honor the past but don't live there
Le stelle la notte sono grandie luminose, nel cuore profondo del Texas

Offline bocker3

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,361
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #51 on: September 12, 2010, 07:09:58 PM »
Please - it's all a matter of definition. I think civil right are the actual rights that go with marriage - insurance, hospital visits, property, etc. If the whole issue is about the actual word 'marriage', it is clearly just a culture war milestone, shoving it to the 150m hicks who are against it. I think American politics is too divisive already - every issue is split and causes people to spew hatred (Looking at you, Bocker).

If you want to have a wedding - fine by me, I am not against it. If two people care for each other and want to marry - let them do it. Probably would reduce philandering and disease progression.
I just happen to see where the other side is coming from, hence I'm in the middle. And I'm not afraid to speak my mind - whether a couple of you express your outrage at the thought of someone in your midst who is so insensitive to actually bring up CU.

You poor unfortunate soul.....   You keep saying the same thing over and over, yet say you don't want to ruffle any feathers.  It's not that you bring up civil unions that causes concern -- it's that you actually think giving us something different from what others have is actual equality.  This is what is so dumbfounding -- well that and the fact that you are far to stupid to see the difference. 

No -- you aren't against us having a wedding -- just so long as we call our union something different than you call yours.  Not, of course, that you personally have anything against it -- just because it will appease those who do -- give me a break, we all see you for what you really are -- one of those 150 million "hicks" you speak about.  You have completely neglected to respond to any of the actual, legal, reasons why your "middle" won't work.  Let me rephrase for your simple mind.

1.  All rights and responsibilities that come with a marriage are, legally, ONLY FOR MARRIED couples -- not those in civile unions.  Hell some of these benefits get to go to ex-spouses, only because they were once married.
2.  Separate but equal is not equality -- it's been shown over and over.
3.  We don't want the word "marriage".  If all state issued licenses were to become Civil Unions, then that is what I would want -- it's not the word, it's the equality.  Straights don't get to feel more comfortable by classifying my union as something different from theirs.  The fact that you can't get this rudimentary fact, while not surprising given your posting history, is ultimately why you really should simply refrain from typing another word about equal rights.

finally -- let me say -- American politics are too divisive because people like you want all the rights and priveleges you've had for years and can't ever imagine anything that might put you on a level playing field with "those kind" of people.  I have no hatred of straight people -- I think that they deserve every right this country grants under law -- the difference is that you do not want us to have these same rights.  So where is the hatred stemming -- from you Mother Mary.

So -- as others have said, spare me your self-righteous bullshit.  You want to see equal rights as much as I want to have some additional anal surgery. 
I'm hoping at some point that one of the mods will come in and shut down your bigoted views, because you seem unable to realize when you are wrong -- not just someone with a different view -- but one that is wrong, because you do not understand the definition of the term "equal".

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline Hellraiser

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,136
  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #52 on: September 12, 2010, 07:14:51 PM »
Please - it's all a matter of definition. I think civil right are the actual rights that go with marriage - insurance, hospital visits, property, etc. If the whole issue is about the actual word 'marriage', it is clearly just a culture war milestone, shoving it to the 150m hicks who are against it. I think American politics is too divisive already - every issue is split and causes people to spew hatred (Looking at you, Bocker).

If you want to have a wedding - fine by me, I am not against it. If two people care for each other and want to marry - let them do it. Probably would reduce philandering and disease progression.
I just happen to see where the other side is coming from, hence I'm in the middle. And I'm not afraid to speak my mind - whether a couple of you express your outrage at the thought of someone in your midst who is so insensitive to actually bring up CU.

The issue is, Boze, that as long as the two institutions have different names they will never be equal.  It's the way of the world whether you like it or believe it is immaterial.  As for being a culture war...this is our right to be treated equally.  I wish you could have a biohazard symbol tattooed on your forehead so everyone you encountered would know you were positive just to know what it's like to live with stigma constantly and you would change the way you think about our "culture war".

Offline hope_for_a_cure

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,502
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #53 on: September 12, 2010, 07:58:46 PM »
My VERY republican mother told me just last week 'I really dont like you being gay'.   I did not respond nor plan to engage in any dialogue about the subject with her.  She is 80 and watches FOX news daily... it would be a lost cause.  At this point I dont let anything she may say bother me too much.  I still plan to stay and help take care of her as macular degeneration takes away her ability to see.  Sometimes I wish she would get laryngitis just for a short while...

Offline tednlou2

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,770
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #54 on: September 12, 2010, 11:26:32 PM »
Boze, I was trying to extend an olive branch to you to clarify your remarks.  Testing her would be a good idea just to see whether she wouldn't extend any rights to gays, but giving in to her or others to make them feel better won't cut it.  If we accept the term civil unions, then our relationship will always be seen less equal to theirs--in their eyes and in legal rights.  As others said, separate but equal hasn't worked or can never work.

   

Offline Assurbanipal

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,173
  • Taking a forums break, still see PM's
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #55 on: September 13, 2010, 02:33:39 PM »
Ted

It is easier to change people's minds on social and moral issues in person than on the internet -- discussions on the internet only seem to harden positions .  So if knowing that she reads fanatical materials on the Internet disturbs you, why not cut off the electronic communication?

But that doesn't mean you have to sever all channels.  In fact, removing the electronic irritant may make you all the more persuasive in person (and we all suspect you are pretty charming  :) )  You could even talk to her (in person) to explain why you've severed the electronic link, if you want to keep things peaceful in the family.  It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

A
5/06 VL 1M+, CD4 22, 5% , pneumonia, thrush -- O2 support 2 months, 6/06 +Kaletra/Truvada
9/06 VL 3959 CD4 297 13.5% 12/06 VL <400 CD4 350 15.2% +Pravachol
2007 VL<400, 70, 50 CD4 408-729 16.0% -19.7%
2008 VL UD CD4 468 - 538 16.7% - 24.6% Osteoporosis 11/08 doubled Pravachol, +Calcium/D
02/09 VL 100 CD4 616 23.7% 03/09 VL 130 5/09 VL 100 CD4 540 28.4% +Actonel (osteoporosis) 7/09 VL 130
8/09  new regimen Isentress/Epzicom 9/09 VL UD CD4 621 32.7% 11/09 VL UD CD4 607 26.4% swap Isentress for Prezista/Norvir 12/09 (liver and muscle issues) VL 50
2010 VL UD CD4 573-680 26.1% - 30.9% 12/10 VL 20
2011 VL UD-20 CD4 568-673 24.7%-30.6%
2012 VL UD swap Prezista/Norvir for Reyataz drop statin CD4 768-828 26.7%-30.7%

Offline Boze

  • Member
  • Posts: 477
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #56 on: September 13, 2010, 06:59:42 PM »
I didn't say that I (me) am against GM - so all this yelling at me is misplaced. I said I understand where conservative/religious people who are against the word 'marriage' being redefined come from. I also completely understand why you guys want it to happen - it's your identity, you didn't choose it, you want to make the best of it. You feel that your relationships are as special and cherished as straight people - why not call them by the same word.
The problem is that society has to function on some form of consensus on these issues. Some countries have easily reached that consensus - but they are not very religious either (and are only 4% of earth population). USA is getting there - maybe in the next X years that consensus will be there. For now it seems like the two sides are standing on opposite sides of a football field and yelling at each other that THEIR place is the right one. That was my reference to culture war - the idea that your side is 100% right and the other one is totally stupid/bigoted/sinful.
I'm a little sad that all of you take my reflection on the situation to mean support for the other side, which it's not.

Lastly - on the OP. Teddy - i didn't say you should 'give in' to her. I just thought that if it happens that she doesn't hate you/all gays and simply doesn't want to redefine the word marriage (a position I think a large % of people who are against gm share) - i don't know if it's worth having a fight over every time you have a family gathering. Then again - I'm just a random guy on the net, so don't listen to me if you think otherwise.
==========
Aug08 - Seroconversion
Mar10 - Diagnosis; cd4 690 - VL 19,000
Apr10 - cd4 600
May10 - VL 4,500
Jun10 - started Atripla ; VL 113
Jul 10 - UD vl, CD4 590
Aug 10 - UD, CD4 810, 52%
Nov 10 - UD, CD4 980

Offline Hellraiser

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,136
  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #57 on: September 13, 2010, 07:07:12 PM »
You feel that your relationships are as special and cherished as straight people - why not call them by the same word.

That was my reference to culture war - the idea that your side is 100% right and the other one is totally stupid/bigoted/sinful.

I'm a little sad that all of you take my reflection on the situation to mean support for the other side, which it's not.

Boze, civil rights aren't a two sided issue.  There is no correct way to argue that any class of human beings shouldn't be granted the full rights of any other set of human beings.  So when you pre-empt that first sentence with "You feel that..." there is only one way to take that.

We don't "feel" that we deserve to be treated as equal citizens.  We DESERVE to be treated as equal citizens with the same rights to marry who we are sexually attracted to or in love with as you do.

Offline Rev. Moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,782
  • Smart ass faggot
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #58 on: September 13, 2010, 07:08:10 PM »

The problem is that society has to function on some form of consensus on these issues. Some countries have easily reached that consensus - but they are not very religious either (and are only 4% of earth population).


Another inaccurate statement from our beloved resident know-it-all. Spain happens to be quite a religious (catholic nonetheless) nation, yet they were among the first to allow same sex marriage.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,208
  • Ninja Please
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #59 on: September 13, 2010, 07:11:20 PM »
Another inaccurate statement from our beloved resident know-it-all. Spain happens to be quite a religious (catholic nonetheless) nation, yet they were among the first to allow same sex marriage.

As is large swathes of Latin America. Apparently pervert marriage is all the rage down Mexico way.

MtD

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,943
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #60 on: September 13, 2010, 07:15:06 PM »
He justs pulls statistics out of his ass.

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,208
  • Ninja Please
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #61 on: September 13, 2010, 07:17:00 PM »
He justs pulls statistics out of his ass.

Large storage capacity, no doubt.

MtD

Offline Rev. Moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,782
  • Smart ass faggot
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #62 on: September 13, 2010, 07:18:37 PM »
As is large swathes of Latin America. Apparently pervert marriage is all the rage down Mexico way.

MtD

I recall a recent thread mentioning that either Argentina or Brazil would be allowing teh gayz to become legally miserable.  Mexico and Colombia have seriously considered it; I won't be surprised if it actually happens within the next decade.

He justs pulls statistics out of his ass.

C'mon aunty D. Nothing has ever made up his virginal manly pooper.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline phildinftlaudy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,959
  • sweet Ann what you think babe...
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #63 on: September 13, 2010, 07:19:42 PM »
I didn't say that I (me) am against GM - ... why you guys want it to happen - it's your identity, you didn't choose it, you want to make the best of it. You feel that your relationships are as special and cherished as straight people.... - .I'm a little sad ....


Boze -
your own words indict you.
"I didn't say that I (me) am against GM"    well, you didn't say you were for it either
"Why you guys want it to happen - it's your identity, you didn't choose it, you want to make the best of it..."    What the hell do you mean "make the best of it" - this statement right here shows the indignation you have towards gay people. "Make the best of it" - a terminal illness is something one makes the best of - having a loving relionship with another human being, and most definitely being gay is not something that I feel punished by being and that I have to "make the best of it."
We don't feel that our relationships are as special and cheished as straight people - they ARE as cherished and special.

You conclude by saying "you are a little sad.." - You should be a lot sad -  you are definitely very sorry -- very very SORRY.
September 13, 2008 - diagnosed +
Labs:
Date    CD4    %   VL     Date  CD4  %   VL
10/08  636    35  510   9/09 473  38 2900  12/4/09 Atripla
12/09  540    30    60   
12/10  740    41  <48   
8/11    667    36  <20  
03/12  1,041  42  <20
05/12  1,241  47  <20
08/12   780    37  <20
11/12   549    35  <20
02/12  1,102  42  <20
11/12   549    35  <20

Offline Boze

  • Member
  • Posts: 477
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #64 on: September 13, 2010, 07:20:59 PM »
Another inaccurate statement from our beloved resident know-it-all. Spain happens to be quite a religious (catholic nonetheless) nation, yet they were among the first to allow same sex marriage.

That was true of Spain under Franco, today it's not.

"Among Catholics, only 10 percent in the Netherlands, 12 percent in France, 15 percent in Germany and Austria, 18 percent in Spain and 25 percent in Italy attend Mass weekly." http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/19/international/worldspecial2/19europe.html?_r=1&scp=3&sq=april%2019,%202005%20mass&st=cse

"Most Spaniards do not participate regularly in religious worship. This same study shows that of the Spaniards who identify themselves as religious, 58% hardly ever or never go to mass, 17% go to mass some times a year, 9% some time per month and 15% every Sunday or multiple times per week.[2] A huge majority of young Spaniards, including those who self-identify as Catholic, ignore the church's conservative advice on issues such as pre-marital sex, sexual orientation or contraception"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Spain#cite_note-CIS-1

We don't "feel" that we deserve to be treated as equal citizens.  We DESERVE to be treated as equal citizens with the same rights to marry who we are sexually attracted to or in love with as you do.

That is contingent on definition of whether marriage is a right. You think it is, they think it's not. You see how it depends on one's value system?
==========
Aug08 - Seroconversion
Mar10 - Diagnosis; cd4 690 - VL 19,000
Apr10 - cd4 600
May10 - VL 4,500
Jun10 - started Atripla ; VL 113
Jul 10 - UD vl, CD4 590
Aug 10 - UD, CD4 810, 52%
Nov 10 - UD, CD4 980

Offline Hellraiser

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,136
  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #65 on: September 13, 2010, 07:24:34 PM »
That is contingent on definition of whether marriage is a right. You think it is, they think it's not. You see how it depends on one's value system?

Regardless of how you want to pose the question, one group of people is allowed to marry another group is not.  This is pretty basic logic that A != B.

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,943
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #66 on: September 13, 2010, 07:29:00 PM »
Boze is still waiting for a consensus on apartheid.

Offline Boze

  • Member
  • Posts: 477
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #67 on: September 13, 2010, 07:43:02 PM »
Regardless of how you want to pose the question, one group of people is allowed to marry another group is not.  This is pretty basic logic that A != B.

Western society also doesn't allow 3 people to marry. Now - careful - I am NOT saying that two are equivalent. I am only saying that it is a matter of convention for a given society (btw polygamy and polyandry are a lot more common in the world than gm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_polygamy). So it's all a matter of convention. Up to 20 years ago there was no GM anywhere in the world - nobody in their right mind would demand this as a natural right in 1985, back then making sodomy legal was the 'natural right' fight.


Boze -
your own words indict you.
"I didn't say that I (me) am against GM"    well, you didn't say you were for it either
"Why you guys want it to happen - it's your identity, you didn't choose it, you want to make the best of it..."    What the hell do you mean "make the best of it" - this statement right here shows the indignation you have towards gay people. "Make the best of it" - a terminal illness is something one makes the best of - having a loving relionship with another human being, and most definitely being gay is not something that I feel punished by being and that I have to "make the best of it."

I don't feel any indignation - i am just realistic. It sucks to be a minority - I am one, I know. It is easier to be a majority and not have to fight for your rights and expect the world to do your bidding.  I have no "indignation" for anybody.
==========
Aug08 - Seroconversion
Mar10 - Diagnosis; cd4 690 - VL 19,000
Apr10 - cd4 600
May10 - VL 4,500
Jun10 - started Atripla ; VL 113
Jul 10 - UD vl, CD4 590
Aug 10 - UD, CD4 810, 52%
Nov 10 - UD, CD4 980

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,208
  • Ninja Please
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #68 on: September 13, 2010, 07:45:10 PM »
So it's all a matter of convention. Up to 20 years ago there was no GM anywhere in the world - nobody in their right mind would demand this as a natural right in 1985, back then making sodomy legal was the 'natural right' fight.

I don't feel any indignation - i am just realistic. It sucks to be a minority - I am one, I know. It is easier to be a majority and not have to fight for your rights and expect the world to do your bidding.  I have no "indignation" for anybody.


Now, now Bozette - you getting a touch of victim syndrome?

Also, nice use of the term "sodomy". :)

MtD

Offline john33

  • Member
  • Posts: 407
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #69 on: September 13, 2010, 08:12:53 PM »
Boze,

Equality before the law or equality under the law or legal egalitarianism is the principle under which each individual is subject to the same laws, with no individual or group having special legal privileges. No one is exempt or included more than another
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_before_the_law

Social equality is a social state of affairs in which all people within a specific society or isolated group have the same status in a certain respect. At the very least, social equality includes equal rights under the law, such as security, voting rights, freedom of speech and assembly, and the extent of property rights. However, it also includes access to education, health care and other social securities. It also includes equal opportunities and obligations, and so involves the whole society.

Social equality requires the lack of legally enforced social class or caste boundaries and the lack of unjustified discrimination motivated by an inalienable part of a person's identity. For example, gender, age, sexual orientation, origin, caste or class, income or property, language, religion, convictions, opinions, health or disability must not result in unequal treatment under the law and should not reduce opportunities unjustifiably.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_equality

There you go as someone who likes quotes. Read and learn before shooting your mouth off!!

And in the words of my Gran " Put that in your pipe and smoke it"

John

Offline bocker3

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,361
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #70 on: September 13, 2010, 10:34:20 PM »
Western society also doesn't allow 3 people to marry. Now - careful - I am NOT saying that two are equivalent. I am only saying that it is a matter of convention for a given society (btw polygamy and polyandry are a lot more common in the world than gm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_polygamy). So it's all a matter of convention. Up to 20 years ago there was no GM anywhere in the world - nobody in their right mind would demand this as a natural right in 1985, back then making sodomy legal was the 'natural right' fight.

So basically you are saying we should be happy with whatever we are allowed to have?  You really are stupider than I ever thought previously.  You continue to come here and try to explain how we should accept a compromise of our rights -- rights that everyone else has.  Don't give me your twisted bullshit that some think marriage is not a right -- if someone came to take theirs away, they would be jumping up and down about the "right".  One does NOT compromise their way to equality.  One has it, or one does not. 
You may think your clever, but in reality, you continue to show yourself as a bigot who thinks gays should be oh so thankful that you are allowed your sodomy.  Take that and be happy now -- leave the marriage to us straight folks who know how to use it.   Well -- fuck you and your compromise -- shove them up that ass that is now devoid of some statistics.

I don't feel any indignation - i am just realistic. It sucks to be a minority - I am one, I know. It is easier to be a majority and not have to fight for your rights and expect the world to do your bidding.  I have no "indignation" for anybody.

You're not realistic sugar -- you are a bitter man who doesn't want the gays who brought this plague down on you to ever think that their relationships could approach the deepness of yours.

Crawl back into your cave amd resume your drawings.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline Joe K

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 3,503
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #71 on: September 14, 2010, 12:12:10 AM »
I don't feel any indignation - i am just realistic. It sucks to be a minority - I am one, I know. It is easier to be a majority and not have to fight for your rights and expect the world to do your bidding.  I have no "indignation" for anybody.
You are a minority? Really, which kind? It can't be a straight poz man, as straight pozzies outnumber everyone else, so what could it be? I really want to know what kind of "minority" you believe yourself to be.

Offline tednlou2

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,770
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #72 on: September 14, 2010, 02:14:35 AM »
Ted

It is easier to change people's minds on social and moral issues in person than on the internet -- discussions on the internet only seem to harden positions .  So if knowing that she reads fanatical materials on the Internet disturbs you, why not cut off the electronic communication?

But that doesn't mean you have to sever all channels.  In fact, removing the electronic irritant may make you all the more persuasive in person (and we all suspect you are pretty charming  :) )  You could even talk to her (in person) to explain why you've severed the electronic link, if you want to keep things peaceful in the family.  It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

A

I just had this discussion today.  And, it isn't just her.  Facebook has become quite divisive.  I rarely see her in person.  If not for FB, I wouldn't know all the groups she joins and the things she posts.  So, I will defriend her when I sign on there.  When I see her at family gatherings, I will just ignore her.  I realize I'm allowing her to upset me.  I think I haven't defriended her yet, because I did want to know what she was posting.  However, that serves no purpose at this point and only causes myself grief.  I'm responsible for that.  It reminds me of my mother when my father was an alcoholic.  I suppose he will always be an alcoholic in recovery.  She would stay home just to argue with him instead of leaving and going to the store or out with friends.  Everyone always asked her whether she got some enjoyment out of arguing with him.  I think she felt the need to prove herself right.  While he did give up drinking, I don't think I'll change my "sisnlaw's" mind.  She'll have to do that for herself and I'm not holding my breath. 

Offline GSOgymrat

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,002
  • HIV+ since 1993. INTJ
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #73 on: September 14, 2010, 08:19:14 AM »
Ted, I think you have the right approach. If your aunt is participating in hateful groups on-line it is unlikely she will truly change her opinion and it's not your job to make her a better person. There are always going to be mean, hateful, racist, homophobic people in our lives and some of those people are going to be relatives. The best we can do sometimes is stand our ground, defend ourselves if we are attacked and avoid the people who would bring us down with their own personal chaos. You seem like a kind, caring person and I'm sure your family appreciates those qualities more than your aunt's hateful attitudes.

Offline Basquo

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,251
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #74 on: September 14, 2010, 12:31:58 PM »
I think you should reply to the post everytime you see on FB that she's joined another group.

"OMG, did you seriously just join that group?? Don't you know they do ______ and hate ______?  Keep this up and you won't be invited to the wedding!"

All her friends on FB will see it and know that not only does she have a gay relative, but she's preaching against her kin.

If you're going to take her down make her look like  the bad guy, might as well do it in public with a big audience.

Offline Ann

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 28,140
  • It just is, OK?
    • Num is sum qui mentiar tibi?
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #75 on: September 14, 2010, 12:36:15 PM »
Creighton, that's great advice. I think that's what I would do. :)
Condoms are a girl's best friend

Condom and Lube Info  



"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Offline Hellraiser

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,136
  • Semi-misanthropic
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #76 on: September 14, 2010, 01:36:21 PM »
Make her wish she never laid eyes on facebook.

Offline Florida69

  • Member
  • Posts: 428
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #77 on: September 14, 2010, 02:44:41 PM »
Something that is good to add here is that the gay movement started at the same time as the civil rights movement.  This issue is not 20 years old, but much older.  Equal protection under the law, which includes in America the right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.  Marriage is only one part of the pursuit.. We all want equal which means the same rights as our heterosexual counterparts.... D
Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan 'Press On' has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.
Calvin Coolidge

Offline Boze

  • Member
  • Posts: 477
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #78 on: September 14, 2010, 03:14:21 PM »
You are a minority? Really, which kind? It can't be a straight poz man, as straight pozzies outnumber everyone else, so what could it be? I really want to know what kind of "minority" you believe yourself to be.

I don't want to go into who i am, just take my word.

Well, anyways - i wish you luck. I hope gays get the same rights, but I don't think with majority of the population against it, GM will come to pass. Probably will get the same model as the UK - first 'civil partnership' with equal rights and responsibilities, followed by 'civil marriage' a few years later. Enough old people have to die, young ones don't really give a shit. Pushing the issue too quickly may backfire.
==========
Aug08 - Seroconversion
Mar10 - Diagnosis; cd4 690 - VL 19,000
Apr10 - cd4 600
May10 - VL 4,500
Jun10 - started Atripla ; VL 113
Jul 10 - UD vl, CD4 590
Aug 10 - UD, CD4 810, 52%
Nov 10 - UD, CD4 980

Offline bocker3

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,361
  • You gotta enjoy life......
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #79 on: September 14, 2010, 05:14:43 PM »
I don't want to go into who i am, just take my word.

Your word ain't worth much around here......  You throw "facts" out but never back 'em up.  As the Damned One has said once or twice before -- "we are on to you".


Well, anyways - i wish you luck. I hope gays get the same rights, but I don't think with majority of the population against it, GM will come to pass. Probably will get the same model as the UK - first 'civil partnership' with equal rights and responsibilities, followed by 'civil marriage' a few years later. Enough old people have to die, young ones don't really give a shit. Pushing the issue too quickly may backfire.

Really??  Ever heard of the following states:  Massachusetts, Connecticut, Iowa....   GM has come to pass -- just need the Federal gov't to agree with equality for all.
And....  don't need anyone to die, just need the courts to uphold the constitution.  If one is married in Mass., they should be considered married everywhere -- as per the US Constitution.  You seem to think that equal rights needs majority approval -- if that were true we'd be living in a different society today.  Rights are not up to a vote -- they simply are granted via our Constitution.

Now run along and find someone else to antagonize -- you have begun to bore me with your lies.

Mike
Atripla - Started 12/05
Reyataz/Norvir - Added 6/06
Labs - Pre-Meds
Sep05 T=350/25% VL98,559
Nov05 288/18%  47,564
Current Labs
May2013 691/31% <20

Offline Dachshund

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,943
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #80 on: September 14, 2010, 05:33:05 PM »
I don't want to go into who i am, just take my word.



Sounds like something someone would say in a dirty bookstore stall.

Offline Boze

  • Member
  • Posts: 477
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #81 on: September 14, 2010, 06:10:10 PM »
Your word ain't worth much around here......  You throw "facts" out but never back 'em up.  As the Damned One has said once or twice before -- "we are on to you".


Really??  Ever heard of the following states:  Massachusetts, Connecticut, Iowa....   GM has come to pass -- just need the Federal gov't to agree with equality for all.
And....  don't need anyone to die, just need the courts to uphold the constitution.  If one is married in Mass., they should be considered married everywhere -- as per the US Constitution.  You seem to think that equal rights needs majority approval -- if that were true we'd be living in a different society today.  Rights are not up to a vote -- they simply are granted via our Constitution.

Now run along and find someone else to antagonize -- you have begun to bore me with your lies.

Mike

Damn old sodomite, keeps coming back. Clearly you've got a major chip on your shoulder at the world - it's not my fault you're so angry. Try tai-chi or some shit like that. Ranting at strangers on message boards probably raises the pressure, unhealthy.
Either way, I don't think this is going anywhere. Politicians know they have to answer to the voters (US is not mexico), so will follow the same pattern as the UK, middle line to appease you lot and the majority. But don't despair, with proper healthcare you'll probably be around to celebrate when GM comes to pass. Just don't get so angry on the internets or you may not be around.

MtD - sodomite reference was for you. You manage to be referenced by both sides!
« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 07:01:22 PM by Boze »
==========
Aug08 - Seroconversion
Mar10 - Diagnosis; cd4 690 - VL 19,000
Apr10 - cd4 600
May10 - VL 4,500
Jun10 - started Atripla ; VL 113
Jul 10 - UD vl, CD4 590
Aug 10 - UD, CD4 810, 52%
Nov 10 - UD, CD4 980

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,208
  • Ninja Please
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #82 on: September 14, 2010, 07:01:54 PM »
Damn old sodomite, keeps coming back. Clearly you've got a major chip on your shoulder at the world - it's not my fault you're so angry. Try tai-chi or some shit like that. Ranting at strangers on message boards probably raises the pressure, unhealthy.
Either way, I don't think this is going anywhere. Politicians know they have to answer to the voters (US is not mexico), so will follow the same pattern as the UK, middle line to appease you lot and the majority. But don't despair, with proper healthcare you'll probably be around to celebrate when GM comes to pass. Just don't get so angry on the internets or you may be around.

MtD - sodomite reference was for you. You manage to be referenced by both sides!

You can make all the "hail-fellow-well-met" references to me you want. It's not gonna save your closeted old hide.

You're on the ropes, Bozelle. Time to chuck that mauve towel in, methinks.

MtD

/edit: tyop/
« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 07:04:53 PM by Matty the Damned »

Offline Boze

  • Member
  • Posts: 477
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #83 on: September 14, 2010, 07:13:51 PM »
You can make all the "hail-fellow-well-met" references to me you want. It's not gonna save your closeted old hide.

You're on the ropes, Bozelle. Time to chuck that mauve towel in, methinks.

MtD

/edit: tyop/

Huh? As if you are in any position to arbitrate this. I know I'm right whether you like it or not. And stop calling me old or closeted - I'm young and comfortable with my grade-a sexuality.
==========
Aug08 - Seroconversion
Mar10 - Diagnosis; cd4 690 - VL 19,000
Apr10 - cd4 600
May10 - VL 4,500
Jun10 - started Atripla ; VL 113
Jul 10 - UD vl, CD4 590
Aug 10 - UD, CD4 810, 52%
Nov 10 - UD, CD4 980

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,208
  • Ninja Please
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #84 on: September 14, 2010, 07:16:44 PM »
And stop calling me old or closeted - I'm young and comfortable with my grade-a sexuality.

If you say that enough you might just start believing it, honey. Keep reaching for that rainbow! :)

MtD

Offline Rev. Moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,782
  • Smart ass faggot
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #85 on: September 14, 2010, 07:27:25 PM »
Damn old sodomite, keeps coming back. Clearly you've got a major chip on your shoulder at the world - it's not my fault you're so angry. Try tai-chi or some shit like that.


Lovely. God, you are such a nasty person.

Quote
US is not mexico

Seriously?  Thank you for that profound lesson in geography and international relations. And what the hell does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline Boze

  • Member
  • Posts: 477
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #86 on: September 14, 2010, 07:34:56 PM »


Lovely. God, you are such a nasty person.

Seriously?  Thank you for that profound lesson in geography and international relations. And what the hell does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

jiga, plz. Nasty is yall ganging up on someone who doesn't subscribe to your views 100%. I endured enough from the old geezah before I grew tired.

==========
Aug08 - Seroconversion
Mar10 - Diagnosis; cd4 690 - VL 19,000
Apr10 - cd4 600
May10 - VL 4,500
Jun10 - started Atripla ; VL 113
Jul 10 - UD vl, CD4 590
Aug 10 - UD, CD4 810, 52%
Nov 10 - UD, CD4 980

Offline Matty the Damned

  • Member
  • Posts: 12,208
  • Ninja Please
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #87 on: September 14, 2010, 07:37:37 PM »
jiga, plz. Nasty is yall ganging up on someone who doesn't subscribe to your views 100%. I endured enough from the old geezah before I grew tired.

Now Bozie, you're getting that sooky victim tone to your posts again.


MtD
(Who is delighted he got to use that macro twice in as many weeks)

Offline Rev. Moon

  • Member
  • Posts: 3,782
  • Smart ass faggot
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #88 on: September 14, 2010, 07:39:44 PM »
jiga, plz. Nasty is yall ganging up on someone who doesn't subscribe to your views 100%. I endured enough from the old geezah before I grew tired.



Sho'... Whatevz... Boo fuckin hoo to you.
"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Offline David Evans

  • member
  • Member
  • Posts: 97
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #89 on: September 14, 2010, 07:49:53 PM »
BOZE -

This is your warning. You're flame-bating and it's got to stop. Leave this thread alone and watch your behavior. You don't get a second warning, you get a time out.

David
Moderator

Offline tednlou2

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,770
Re: What To Do With Anti-Gay Marriage Family/Friends
« Reply #90 on: September 14, 2010, 10:27:26 PM »
Something funny happened tonight.  I've started to go through old VHS tapes to see what's on them.  The first tape I picked was an episode of "Politically Incorrect" where they perform a gay marriage.  The guest later debate gay marriage with the anti-gay marriage guys saying gays were trying to hijack marriage.  This was in 2000.  ABC forced Bill at the open to warn viewers and this aired at 12:05am.  I remember an episode of The Simpson's where Homer was performing gay marriages.  FOX ran a warning at the beginning of the show.  FOX of all networks that ran such shows like "Who Wants to Marry a Millionaire".  The Simpson's episode was just a few years ago.

 You can watch the lovely gay marriage below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4q45lPE2Ek

 


Terms of Membership for these forums
 

© 2014 Smart + Strong. All Rights Reserved.   terms of use and your privacy
Smart + Strong® is a registered trademark of CDM Publishing, LLC.